What does that mean?
There isnt anywhere God cant see.....

That all depends on whether you are a man of science or a man of faith, yeah?

Interesting line. It also suggested that no one else can "see" the island. Is it cloaked somehow?

What does that mean?
There isnt anywhere God cant see.....

Well, I guess we'll have to take NotHenryGale's word on this one . . . he must have a reason to believe that 'God' can't see the island . . .

The only way I can reconcile this comment in any way is that Henry was using hyperbole. Perhaps he's jaded. He's been there so long, he feels abandoned by God, or doesn't believe in God anymore.

If he (and the writer) was trying to be serious, it has to be the stupidest piece of writing I've ever seen.

I took it as FakeHenry has seen some terrible things on the island and if things so terrible are allowed to go on, he thinks God must not be able to see it.

... he may not believe in God in the first place

I think he was just using it figuratively, like it is so remote, and probably whatever
they have there, makes it impossible to detect by satellite, almost. Since
nothing is impossible, more like improbable.

Pseudo Henry is a jerk any way!

I think it's interesting how during that whole comment he mentioned how no one - no people - can see the island. As pacejunkie was saying, is it cloaked? Why can't anybody see it? And is that hyperbole? I mean, someone must be able to see the island if they can drop food onto it.

but if you think about it, where cant God "see"? hell. so its like a metaphor. the island is hell.

that was my interpretation at least.

I think he was just exaggerating. I think the island is blocked off from anyone going near it (hence no planes flying overhead), and thus Henry feels it's as if no one can find them. Another theory, maybe Henry and Co. were abandoned there and he's bitter about it?

I think it's interesting how during that whole comment he mentioned how no one - no people - can see the island. As pacejunkie was saying, is it cloaked? Why can't anybody see it? And is that hyperbole? I mean, someone must be able to see the island if they can drop food onto it.

Yes, I've been with the 'cloaking' thing for awhile too. So, it can only bee seen during lock down, for the minute or two that they drop food from high up, when the cloaking mechanism is blocked or turned off? It gets back to the hundred pages from last week as to whether there really was a plane that dropped food . . .

but if you think about it, where cant God "see"? hell. so its like a metaphor. the island is hell.

that was my interpretation at least.

Well, as many of you know, smokey may be called Cerberus, and Cerberus is the gatekeeper to hell...

He could have said it just to get Locke's goat. Like when he said all that stuff about Jack being the one in charge just to wind Locke up.

I took it metaphorically as well; however, if he was being literal and Eko is building a church/alter as many have suggested, maybe that building will cause a change in that.

I took it as FakeHenry has seen some terrible things on the island and if things so terrible are allowed to go on, he thinks God must not be able to see it.

I was so creeped out when he said that. I couldn't make sense of it. But this does sound logical (maybe I'm too much of a "man of science").

Maybe God didn't create the island, therefore not able to see it.

maybe he did see terrible things, maybe he does feel abandoned, but the phrase even God cant see this place----
makes me think that were hiding, its hidden--which brings me to--everything on the island is hidden, the hatches, the black rock, the radio tower, have we seen that yet?
nothing is in plain site, yet everythign is there if you look for it--im rambling--but the phrase needs investigating

I took it as FakeHenry has seen some terrible things on the island and if things so terrible are allowed to go on, he thinks God must not be able to see it.

That's what I'm going with. He sounded bitter, almost sardonic, when he said it.

More on the cloaking theory - all this mention of magnets could "cloak" the island, right? At least from radar and the like...

Yeah that's the impression I got; that the things that were ocurring were so dark that God would must be ignoring it. I don't think he meant it literally (as the nature of God is omnipresence).

Makes me even more confused.

I took his statement very literally, and it invoked images of discussions on the Tiberius threads about the island being another dimension, a tessaract, enabled by science, in which is out side of earthly realms and those in control are emulating god or invoking a person's sense of god artificially to those there.

With all the talk and suggestions about artificial intelligence, deep science, remote viewing, self actualizion of non-living things, somehow, Craphole Island is a self-contained, man-made physical and spiritual universe separate and parallel, but connected by some conduit to the world as we know it.

Hm, I took it as something like.... G-d's turned His back on this island (or didn't create it and thus doesn't know about it?)... .the only people who can see this island are remote viewers.... (Like Mr. Paik?)

I also don't think "Henry" believes in G-d, so I took it as sort of metaphorical....

I'm not a fan of the cloaked-island theory, although this episode certainly lends credence to it...

but if you think about it, where cant God "see"? hell. so its like a metaphor. the island is hell.

that was my interpretation at least.

Right on. That is how I interpreted. But then the "HIM" is giving so much merit, almost like the lucifer. Cheesy I know, but weird with all this HIM stuff and they are so afraid of him. FakeHenry didn't seem to even be afraid of Sayid, but HIM....

God is: Ominpotent- all knowing

...

If he (and the writer) was trying to be serious, it has to be the stupidest piece of writing I've ever seen.

If they are trying to be serious, its the BEST thing! Let art impact life.
100%
God is: Ominpotent- all knowing

The writers of this show are, they have created it.

*bookmarking for tomorrow :D*

sorry, first time posting.

God is: Omnipotent- all powerful
Omiscient- all-knowing, has infinite awareness
"If you seek him, he will be found by you; but if you forsake him, he will reject you forever." 1Chr. 28:9
-perhaps the islanders have rejected God?

Omnipresent- present in all places at all times
"Where can I go from your Spirit? Or where can I flee from your presence? If I ascend to heaven, you are there; if I make my bed in Sheol, you are there. If I take the wings of the morning and settle at the farthest limits of the sea, even there your hand shall lead me, and your right hand shall hold me fast." Psa. 139:7-10

- I do recall hearing/seeing that God is only these things over his creations, but did he not create everything? If not God, Satan? Can't Satan only corrupt, not create?

... he may not believe in God in the first place

Maybe he's just trying to mess with Locke's head. He knows how to push all of the right buttons to shake Locke. He also knows that Locke was willing to push buttons even though he didn't know what would happen if they weren't pushed. I think it's just more head games. NotHenry has been priming Locke since he got there.

There are two explinations on where God cannot see. God can't see (if you believe in free will) what your going to do next is 1

2 God cannot not see that which does not exist.

So I am taking a wild guess here and going with the 2 nd thought as Fake Henry sees it.

Fake Henry throws another Twsiting Ball of Lies!!!! Spin the truth, rattle the mind, Shake the human mind to dust and then Create.

I don't think he seriously thinks God can't see the island, he was stating it that way because of what Lock said. The real meaning behind what Faux-Henry said I believe is that the island is cloaked somehow...probably from radar by the electro-magnets as has been theorized by many here. I'm not sure if even the government is capable of cloaking an entire island from been seen by the naked eye yet, that may still be in the realm of sci-fi?
Anyway, that's my take on it, too.
~Mark

NotHenry was jaded, whether it was from being stranded, or having seen what causes the horrors of Craphole Island. He's seen things so inhuman that he's given up all hope.

I think the statement had both literal and metaphorical levels. Another reason why this episode was brilliant.

I was thinking that Eko may in fact change that whole situation. A redeemer perhaps. We may see 12 followers soon....

I believe is that he wasn't literal about God not being able to see the island but that he was about the fact that the rest of the world can't. Somehow this island is 'off the map' It does not exist to anyone who is not meant to find it. How someone becomes destined to find the Island is a different discussion altogether. Perhaps it's organized by the Hanso Foundation or perhaps it's some type of fate/divine intervention.

but if you think about it, where cant God "see"? hell. so its like a metaphor. the island is hell.

that was my interpretation at least.

I know it's kind of irrelevant, and i don't want to turn this into a religious debate, but Psalm 139 implies that God is present even in hell :undecide:.

In any case, I think Henry was using it in the figurative sense, that the island is so remote that even God doesn't know where it is. Hyperbole.
100%
sorry, first time posting.

God is: Omnipotent- all powerful
Omiscient- all-knowing, has infinite awareness
"If you seek him, he will be found by you; but if you forsake him, he will reject you forever." 1Chr. 28:9
-perhaps the islanders have rejected God?

Omnipresent- present in all places at all times
"Where can I go from your Spirit? Or where can I flee from your presence? If I ascend to heaven, you are there; if I make my bed in Sheol, you are there. If I take the wings of the morning and settle at the farthest limits of the sea, even there your hand shall lead me, and your right hand shall hold me fast." Psa. 139:7-10

- I do recall hearing/seeing that God is only these things over his creations, but did he not create everything? If not God, Satan? Can't Satan only corrupt, not create?

Yeah, He would have to be either the direct or indirect cause of all created things.

In any case, I think Henry was using it in the figurative sense, that the island is so remote that even God doesn't know where it is. Hyperbole.


I don't think it's a hyperbole or a figurative statement. He worded it too oddly. If it were a hyperbole, he would have just said "God knows? Even god doesn't know about this place!".

Instead, you'll notice that he suddenly changes his tone and looks directly at Locke, rather than burying his head. He doesn't just make a quick quip either, it's several sentances about god. If he weren't serious, why drag it out so long? His later comments make it seem as though he's part of some higher power. It sounds like they believe they've transcended God by hiding themselves from him.

As it's been shown before, the endgame for the show isn't Dharma, it's the island. Something about the island brought Dharma here. It has some sort of power or unique property. And, as evidenced by Henry's comments tonight, that power/property is the ability to escape even the vision of God.

Maybe some sort of time warp? Who knows!

I took it as FakeHenry has seen some terrible things on the island and if things so terrible are allowed to go on, he thinks God must not be able to see it.

That's kinda the way I took it too. Like when a person feels so guilty and bad about themself that they think that God can't accept them and has turned his back on them. "henry" thinks that the island( a hell of sorts) is so bad that God has turned his back on it and does not see(because he wouldn't want too).

I agree also with the original poster of this thread -- there is no place that God cannot see but I think Henry feels abandoned by God. Perhaps he has the same struggles with the faith issue that some of the other losties do.

As it's been shown before, the endgame for the show isn't Dharma, it's the island. Something about the island brought Dharma here. It has some sort of power or unique property.

There is definitely some sort of metaphysical/spiritual/mystical/psychic something or other to the island. It seems to suck in planes and boats like a big ol' Hoover vacuum.

All I know is that Mr.NotHenry really meant what he said about God not being able to see it. Its the first time I've seen something like whatever emotion that was on his face.

Maybe he was just trying to further make Locke crack. He's knows that Locke's faith in God and his faith in himself is starting to slip.

I was thinking that Eko may in fact change that whole situation. A redeemer perhaps. We may see 12 followers soon....

and maybe baby Aaron is also there to change the situation.

I think it's interesting how during that whole comment he mentioned how no one - no people - can see the island. As pacejunkie was saying, is it cloaked? Why can't anybody see it? And is that hyperbole? I mean, someone must be able to see the island if they can drop food onto it.

Not necessarily... if they where its located, they can drop food onto it without seeing it.

Of course, there is the problem of finding it in the first place if you can't see it, I would assume that either it was once able to be seen (in which case I suspect 'the incident' is what hide it), or it was found accidentally and the people who found it were able to get off of it and record its location.

I read a cool theory that implied that the island was protteted and could survive a reversing in planetary poles. I think this comment could reffer to the island being spared in some sort of cataclysm. Maybe he is reffering to god not (ie judgement) being present on the island.

(remember how desmond asked if the world had ended?)

I think the statement had both literal and metaphorical levels. Another reason why this episode was brilliant.

I agree completely. This isn't the first time something has had more than one meaning. Even many episode titles have held multiple meanings (Abandoned, for instance). I think Henry believes God could not see this place or He wouldn't allow what has happened and what is now occuring to take place. I also think there is a very good possibility that the island is cloaked in some fashion, whether related to the electromagnetic emissions, or the timer, or both.

I think this statement was creepy no matter if you are a man of science or faith. I think Henry meant it in a literal way in the sense that obviously no one has discovered the island who has not been abandoned on it (except for maybe those involved in DHARMA who are not placed on the island). I think the main emphasis was metaphorical however. If the "others" are some crazy scientist/researchers who are developing all these new creatures and methods, perhaps Henry doesn't think there is a God after seeing what man can accomplish. On the other hand, maybe he is a believer and just feels God has abandoned him with these people (we still don't know his full involvement, how he came to be there, etc.), he seemed quite frightened by "HIM". And maybe he just wanted to toy with Locke's head a little, who knows with this guy. I don't trust a word that comes out of his mouth.

What does that mean?
There isnt anywhere God cant see.....

I'll go a slightly different direction with this, just for the fun of it. In this episode three things of vital significance came out--briefly, but just the same, there they are. How can anyone reconcile Dave's "See you in another life" with Desmond's? Presumably, in real life, they never could have met, and Hurley could never have heard Desmond tell that to Jack. Second, Libby was in Hurley's life. He can't remember it, but there she was.

Also, Kate's mom appeared in one of Sawyer's flashbacks. Sayid in Kate's father's recruiting office. Kate's dad in Sayid's flashback of Iraq. Locke met Sayid's girlfriend. And on and on.

Third, Libby's question about the name of the guy whose leg she helped set. Did she ever tell Hurley that she did set some guy's leg? If not, how would he have known that information if all this was "in his head"?

So where might that lead us? Be careful, I'm not suggesting this as a defiinitve theory. I have no interest in promoting any particular theory--one of the joys of this show for me is watching the lives of these people unfold week after week.

But again, where might that lead us? The confluence of characters and relatives in "another life." Locke knowing about Charlie's guitar, and his drug habit. Hugo knowing about Libby's broken-legged patient. Dave and Desmond using the exact same phrase (not the first time this has happened in the show, by the way--Libby used a Kate-ism tonight, "I get that." Others have used it too. Some posters on here flame the writers for repeating phrases, but this show is too well written for me to believe that's an accident.) And let's not forget the most incredible thing of all, which we joined with Sayid in asking right from the beginning: "How did we fall 40,000 feet and not get more than a couple of scratches?"

Perhaps...just perhaps...this is indeed a psychological experiment. Perhaps--just perhaps--all these patients (Kate, Locke, Jack, Sawyer, etc.) are somehow hooked together and have a collective consciousness now, sharing their stories unconsciously, as the doctors on the island attempt to cure them with some newfangled brain-sharing treatment? Would God be able to see the island they created in their collective subconscious?

But then, there's this: Assume the island is real, not this collective hive of thought. The theatrical makeup and wigs and all would have no purpose as disguises. Presumably, none of the Losties has ever met any of the Others. Nobody seemed to have recognized Ethan, for instance, nor do they recognize Henry. So why the makeup and wigs and all, if not to disguise? Perhaps to dress up as people from the Losties' pasts?

See? Could go several ways there. Why God can't see inside this island may be a metaphor, or may be literal. It may be a clue, or it may be the ravings of a tortured captive.

"G*d doesn't know how long we've been here. He can't see it any better than the rest of the world can." (I think that the quote. I'm not sure if it's it or this place)

SO it bring in the question of time and the ability to see the island.

Henry had a very defeatist air about him as he said what he said. On a metaphorical level he meant that God has forgotten this place and every creature on it, including the people on it. A very "God is dead" Nietzschian idea.

Literally, I think he may very well have been alluding to the island having some sort of cloaking ability. That will be a very cool idea to see developed or dismissed in coming episodes.

This post will probably be deleted if i expound, but I've tried to present my belief earlier on in this season when Michael was first contacted by Walt and whatnot.... The Devil is on the island, IS the island, so to speak. So is God, in this ether-realm.

Backgammon.

...Literally, I think he may very well have been alluding to the island having some sort of cloaking ability. That will be a very cool idea to see developed or dismissed in coming episodes.

reminding me of all the theories based on the philedelphia experiment stories. i'd enjoy a bit of that if it is actually part of the basic plotline.

and maybe baby Aaron is also there to change the situation.

Another idea I've thought of is that Aaron is bad - remember the psychic saying he needed Claire's goodness? So perhaps, children aren't born as blank slates (tabula rasa, if you will).

This whole thing about God not being able to see the place reminded me of Wrinkle in Time. In the book, planets are covered with darkness & evil to the point that they cannot be seen. Maybe that's the case with the island - and perhaps it's not on Earth, but on a dark planet. There were several references to stars in this episode - Starbucks for one.

Something that I got out of the statement is that something bigger and more powerful is going on then I origianally thought, and the Losties have absolutely no control of their destiny, which is acually kind of a bummer. It kind of makes all their actions meaningless.

What does that mean?
There isnt anywhere God cant see.....

No, that's Santa Claus.

Henry had a very defeatist air about him as he said what he said. On a metaphorical level he meant that God has forgotten this place and every creature on it, including the people on it. A very "God is dead" Nietzschian idea.

Literally, I think he may very well have been alluding to the island having some sort of cloaking ability. That will be a very cool idea to see developed or dismissed in coming episodes.

I think the statement had both literal and metaphorical levels. Another reason why this episode was brilliant.

I agree with both of those. Necrite, what is that in your avatar?

Well, I guess we'll have to take NotHenryGale's word on this one . . . he must have a reason to believe that 'God' can't see the island . . .

I wouldn't take NotHenry's word on what day of the week it was at this point.

lol i just made a thread about this then saw yours, any way

the island being cloaked theory makes alot of sense when you factor in all magnetic equations on the hatch map, plus i really like the idea:)

another way to look at it is henry's meaning of the word "god", the way he said re zeke "hes no-one he NOTHING", imo opinion means that he could view "him" (Hanzo or Degroot) as a "God" of sorts, meaning Hanzo himself can't see whats going on, the projects either gone further than he imagined or he is dead therefore can't see nothin.

bit silly maybe but just a thought

Ok, why are we expanding on this so much? Do any of us believe that this was actually a true statement? from NotHenry? Truth? you're kidding right?

I agree with RiverTheBald. At this point, I wouldn't believe him if he told me the sky was blue.

Ok, why are we expanding on this so much? Do any of us believe that this was actually a true statement? from NotHenry? Truth? you're kidding right?

I agree with RiverTheBald. At this point, I wouldn't believe him if he told me the sky was blue.

i believe him on this one because he has nothing to benefit from saying it, he hasn't gained anything like with his other lies, i think henry is pretty transparent when he's telling the truth, we'll see alot more telling comments like this one, the snake is shedding its skin so to speak

Dave,
Dave was Kevin Klein being someone he was not. A replacement if you will, a doppleganger.

Would a fall from grace put something out of God's sight, kind of like in Constantine, Lucifer gets the best of Michael or Gabriel?, burns the wings right off.

I think NotHenry was making a a truthfull statement but only if you know what he means about it. Like the "nobody knows the trouble I've seen" it isn't meant literally.

what doesnt exist, doesnt see, thats my take.

I actually realized something when going to sleep last night.

This place must be protected from being seen somehow. It's a wrinkle in time, bermuda triangle, etc etc. What Henry said, he meant in the most literal sense. Why? Remember Claire's pyschic's comments? He knew this was going to happen and was going to protect Aaron from danger. Maybe he didn't know that Dharma was there, but he knew that the plane would blip out of existence and give Claire the chance to keep her baby from becoming Satan or whatever bad thing he predicted.

My theory now is that rip in time or whatever is the core property of the island. I'm of the firm belief that JJ and Damon didn't start the idea of this show with Dharma. It probably went like "Well, we have this island that doesn't exist, but what's going to keep these survivors busy and therefore interesting?" "What if someone already found it? Let's say some crazy research project that's trying to create a utopian paradise."

Of course, we'll find out the results of this debate when we learn how/why the plane crashed in the finale.

He was saying it figuratively. Many people refer places they don't like as "God-forsaken". This was just another way to say that. And also it tells us that the Island is cloaked somehow, so that no one can find it unless the Others grant access.

But I get the feeling that Henry doesn't like what is going on out there.

Has anyone seen the Truman Show????

Like when a person feels so guilty and bad about themself that they think that God can't accept them and has turned his back on them. "henry" thinks that the island( a hell of sorts) is so bad that God has turned his back on it and does not see(because he wouldn't want too).

But I get the feeling that Henry doesn't like what is going on out there.

That would go along with the "I'm not a bad person" line. Perhaps Henry does not like what he is doing and does not agree with "HIM" but he does not have a choice and must go along.

Well... I'd just like to start by saying - Big props to the writers... no one messes with us like those guys and this week is no exception... any more of this and my brain is going to turn to mush... But I digress... on to Pseudo Henry... I would like to think that he was speaking literally regarding the "God can't see...". However, I'm going to have to lean towards both a figurative and literal meaning. Lets take into account some of the happenings on this island. First of all - the others - now pseudo Henry is confirmed as one of "them" but which one of "them" is he? It seems that there are two or more branches of "others" - captives and captors. Just because Henry is an other doesn't mean that he's a captor. Perhaps he was a "captive" of the others. And if they are indeed who they appear to be - I'm sure he's seen some things that would question the existence of God.
Also, I'm sure he said it with the intention of ruffling the impressionable feathers of Locke. I mean if I were stuck in a holding cell and being tortured... conquer and divide... get into someone's head and turn them against one another. As much as I love Locke's character, he does seem to be the easiest to scam... he's just a little on the naive of "everyone has goodness in their heart".... everyone except Pseudo H that is.
Which brings me to - what's up with the overall Omni-Judgement tone... "Don't kill me.... I'm not a bad person." Like his soul as human is being judged... if God can't see the island - how's having a good soul going to save you and why would you be afraid to die?

i think this was a HUGE tip-off from the writers, and NotHenry meant it literally. By that point he was so tired, so dejected that he was ready to tell Locke the truth (i think), and it didn't seem as though he was trying to keep up his facade. "god can't see this place...noone can see this place"...tie in the new magnet info, and i think that's the direction we should be looking in.

the island is somehow disassociated from the rest of the world.

this epi was seriously walking the faith/science fence!

both are tested.

the meds issue with Hurley for instance... he still "sees" Dave whether on or off them.

the god knows issue... a flip comment by Locke imo, but you-can-call-me-Henry jumps on it and gives Locke serious pause by saying God can't "see" the island.

i'm loving this! if we fall (another theme of the epi) off the faith/science fence of theorizing, where does that leave us?

God can't see the Island....Hello People. Hasn't JJ only thrown the most obvious answer in our faces? Look at the lierature that has been mentioned. A Wrinkle in Time. Third Policeman. Alice in Wonderland. Henry Gale (Hello! Over the rainbow ...jeez.). Everything in this series points toward this Island existing an an alternate reality.

I have not read through all the comments on here, but yesterday, I read this theory posted in the "lockdown" section. Then I saw "Dave" and it blew me away.

http://www.thefuselage.com/Threaded/showthread.php?t=43009

God can't see the Island....Hello People. Hasn't JJ only thrown the most obvious answer in our faces? Look at the lierature that has been mentioned. A Wrinkle in Time. Third Policeman. Alice in Wonderland. Henry Gale (Hello! Over the rainbow ...jeez.). Everything in this series points toward this Island existing an an alternate reality.

EMPHATICALLY AGREED.

I faintly remember a line from the Bible that made me think of the God angle and this is a paraphrase "Your eyes are too pure to behold evil'. While God CAN see everything it doesn't necesarily follow that he chooses to see everything. There might be some things He just doesn't want to look at which would lead us to think that there is great evil going on on the island.

Or that the island is not natural, manufactured or has been shielded in such a way that no one from the outside can see it but for some reason ships and planes an balloons either break through that shield or are guided there.

Henry actually said God doesn't know how LONG they have been there. Have some of them been there since the time of the "Black Rock' or earlier?

I think that unHenry was messing with Locke - emphasizing that they will never be found and that neither he, nor the Losties, are in charge. Something much bigger is going on...

Its still awkward that while we assumed Locke was strong, he is so easily manipulated...

The island is an alternate reality? Interesting thoughts. Perhaps it is a la The Matrix or something like it.

This line of thinking conjures up this old Twilight Zone Episode:

2 people, a man and a woman, wake up and find themselves in this town. Nothing seems wrong at first, except when they find out there's no other people there. In fact, not only are there no people, but everything there is fake. The trees are fake, the 'food' in the pantry (iirc) is fake. Then they hop on a train to get out of the town, but realize that the train is simply going in a circle through town. At the end, we discover the town is just a 'play set' owned by a child of a much larger race of humans and that they were picked up by her dad as her play things.

How this fits in with the God statement is that the island, similar to the town, is so far removed from normal reality that no being can see it since it extends beyond the sphere of the 'normal' universe into an extraverse outside of normal existence. That's pretty far out there, but the island and the town in this TLZ episode strike a parrellel for me.

dmcquickly,

I really like your post, it's what I've been wrestling with as well; - how did the connections between characters come to be??? They are told to us from a removed, 3rd-person perspective so things like Kate's mom serving Sawyer, Kates dad riding in a chopper w/Sayid, Libby in the bin with Hurley are presented as pre-island fact.

They are present on a physical island with lots of cool concrete and metal hatches and stuff, but are pawns in some one elses mind-f*** long-con enabled by the island's unique properties, the systems built to harness those propeties, and some diabolical real or artificial intelligence controlling it all. I think the psychic manifestations appearing to the losties are being prompted by two competing sides, one side trying to further their alternative reality, man-made god activities, and others trying to defeat it. The island is a metaphysical "ring" that the conflict is about to occurr in. That's what is causing the confusion for us, the observers.

So let's go back to Hurley and Libby. Let's say Hurley is tapped as a guinea pig or pawn by the diabolical island controllers to participate for some reason, like many other Losties. Those trying to stop the dark side, using their same Dharma-invented tools and tricks (remote viewing, gene therapy, etc.) have to find a Yin for every other island participant "Yang". In Hurley's case that ends up being Libby. This is clearly given away in my mind, by Libby's knowing and concerned glance while she's walking behind him at the end, like "I wish I could tell him what's really going on".

I think we will find that many of these random connections were facilitated "pre-island" by handlers. This puts me in the somewhat unpopular and currently ridiculed "Dave was and is real to Hurley, but invisible to everyone else" camp. Just as Locke, Claire and Charlie would claim that their vivid and foretelling dreams were real to them.

Sorry, I was a little all over the place here. I'm looking for company where I'm wandering!

i think that the important part of what fake-Henry said was not that God can't see the island, but that NO ONE can see the island. Saying the word "God" was just a way to tie it in to the conversation. i think this is a huge clue from the writers about the island and will probably end up tying into the "special magnetic properties" (ot whatever they were called) that were mentioned in past episodes. if anything, the mention of God was just to spark conversations like this one, but i dont think we are meant to take this to mean that the island is in another dimension, or in hell, or is non-existant and in the minds of the losties. i think this quote points to more of a solid and definable answer than that.

I don't know about alternate reality. I'm a comic book/sci-fi geek, but I can explain darn near everything with real world facts.
I also think fake Gale has seen a lot of crap go down and more or less was saying "God = forsaken" also.

i think that the important part of what fake-Henry said was not that God can't see the island, but that NO ONE can see the island.

Agreed.

However, any interpretation of anything this guy says has to be made while remembering that he is a masterfull liar who switches lies in mid-sentence when caught.

Henry had a very defeatist air about him as he said what he said. On a metaphorical level he meant that God has forgotten this place and every creature on it, including the people on it. A very "God is dead" Nietzschian idea.

Literally, I think he may very well have been alluding to the island having some sort of cloaking ability. That will be a very cool idea to see developed or dismissed in coming episodes.

I agree. And he is saying this to Locke, which is significant. Basically I took it to mean 'whatever you knew or thought you knew - forget it - because God can't even help you here.'

I would like to comment on a few thoughts before I move into my own:

First, I have a hard time buying into any theory that involves this island being a physical manifestation of Hell. Although it is a easy first assumption to make, the story line doesn't add up to the Biblical representation of Hell and its traits. The writers of this show have proven to have a diverse knowledge in literature, theology, and philosophy. They have also yet to misrepresent any particular viewpoint as far as I am aware. As a result, I don't see them misrepresenting Christian theology to allow for this theory to be accurate.

This continues on from a perspective that Faux-Henry could not have meant his line specifically in a literal sense as fact. The writers would know quite well the omniprescience of a God figure, and as a result would not be so careless as to represent him. Biblically God can see all things and must in order to be the creator of the universe. Scripturally God watch Sodom and Ghamora, watched the fall of Lucifer, watched the crucifixion of Christ, and will watch the Apocolypse. This means that God would not 'chose' to ignore this island. And omnipressence and omnipotence would not allow for him to not be able to see it.

As a result I have to make the assumption that Henry meant what he said, but not as we heard it. First the line was so deliberately given and so purposely inserted that it was a conscience decision by Faux-Henry. It was also the result of the utterance of the word God that was glossed over by Locke. However Faux-Henry fixated upon it. The appearance of his speech and pattern almost made me believe that he was stating something that had been indoctrinated in him. Something that he had come to believe so much that it gushed out of him. It was not a ploy, but a belief. Much like if mentioned to a Christian in passing that Christ did not exist.

One question I had when considering this and his immediate reaction to the word God being used, is if any other character had ever mentioned God yet in his presense. I could be wrong, but I don't even think Eko used religious words.

If I had to take my best guess (which probably isn't a good one), Faux-Henry is indoctrinated into whatever beliefs the "Others" hold. This viewpoint appears to be heavily influenced by science. As a result he may not believe in the existence of God at all. This would spark his quick reaction to the invocation of God's name.

Also if they are so heavily involved in science he could have meant that in Science the metaphysical and supernatural has no place. It has no eyes as it isn't present. As a result God does not exist in this world, nor does his sight. However, if the line was quoted correctly in another post, I don't know how sure of this I am because of the way he said it.

"God cannot see this place ANY BETTER than the rest of the world." I believe the key is in those words. He almost implies that the rest of the world would be able to see this island or place better than God himself. Oh well...no answers here, just thoughts.

Mad.Matt I am absolutely in your camp through the howling man theory:

http://www.thefuselage.com/Threaded/showthread.php?t=35791

I agree that there was as double meaning to what Fenry was saying... The island and it's goings on are so bad/evil that God does not seem present there, as well as the literal meaning that the island is invisible to search parties and such.

I found it interesting that at the beginning of the episode when they showed Fenry tied up in the armory... he kinda looked like like someone being crucified (arms spread out in a cross position).

I think he meant it as "God cant help you here"

What does that mean?
There isnt anywhere God cant see.....

I think Eko is gonna take care of this one......

God is: Ominpotent- all knowing

No one can prove if gods exist. Therefore one can not prove if gods are omnipotent.

As far as the show goes, I think that the magnet is keeping people from seeing the island. Most events can be traced to the magnet.

Hmmmm, God can't see it. So yes, I think he is saying it is Hell. But does this have a relation to the fact that they steel the innocent children, like why would a child go to HELL, they haven't done anything yet.

I agree with both of those. Necrite, what is that in your avatar?

Well, it depends on when you were looking. Until yesterday it was a pot of gumbo cooking on the stove (mmmmm.....gumbo) but now it's Happy Time Harry from Aqua Teen Hunger Force. He is awesome.

God is: Ominpotent- all knowing

Which God?

I think Eko is gonna take care of this one......

By summoning God?

I think it was just a figure of speech over-emphasizing the fact that they are in such a remote location that no one is likely to find them.
Like in shows when someone is getting a buttkicking and the person says "not even God can save you now!"
Just a figure of speech to add intensity..

I really do like the idea that the island is cloaked. Maybe once the timer runs out the cloaking device is removed so the food can be dropped. Really far out there, I know, but just thinking as I type.

Hmmmm, God can't see it. So yes, I think he is saying it is Hell. But does this have a relation to the fact that they steel the innocent children, like why would a child go to HELL, they haven't done anything yet.

I disagree with the idea that the island is Hell. Yes, many terrible things have happened on the island..but I think there are too many pleasures that the Losties partake of for it to be Hell. Do you really think they play poker or golf in Hell? I don't. IMHO if it were Hell there would be more suffering.

Henry's statement of "God can't see this place" has everyone speculating about force fields, alternate states of reality and even satan on the island. (satan doesn't deserve capitalization) Although I could see a force field being generated in order to cloak the island, like in Star Trek, there is one thing I feel confident about. Henry has gotten into Locke's head and knows how to push his buttons. Henry hasn't been able to have the same level of effect on the other Losties (Sayid, Ana L, Jack), he's definitely manipulating Locke, even to the point where Locke's questioning everything, maybe even losing faith in the island and the beauty he found within it.

All this could be an example or an instance of how the folks from the Dharma Initiative manipulate people. Henry could very well be telling the truth about the computer and the code, God not being able to see this place, and everything else. But I still think he's full of $*it and I don't believe a word he says. He could be telling Locke all of this in order to describe to him how helpless he is, or helpless the Losties are, and could slowly be leading up to how the "Others" and their way of life are the only way they can survive on the island. This is purely speculation of course. TPTB have written these episodes where the story can go many different ways , which is one of the reasons why I love the show so much.

I'm very curious as to what Dharma actually stands for. I bet that once we find that out, that will give us a better picture as to what's going on.

Scientists + Religion = Scientology.
I think now we know, if you mess with it, you're never heard from again and I don't think we should discuss it any further.
:biggrin:

Scientists + Religion = Scientology.
I think now we know, if you mess with it, you're never heard from again and I don't think we should discuss it any further.
:biggrin:

Tom Cruise is HIM! This would explain how his cousin (Ethan) landed a gig on the show. :biggrin:

Henry's statement of "God can't see this place" has everyone speculating about force fields, alternate states of reality and even satan on the island. (satan doesn't deserve capitalization) Although I could see a force field being generated in order to cloak the island, like in Star Trek, there is one thing I feel confident about. Henry has gotten into Locke's head and knows how to push his buttons. Henry hasn't been able to have the same level of effect on the other Losties (Sayid, Ana L, Jack), he's definitely manipulating Locke, even to the point where Locke's questioning everything, maybe even losing faith in the island and the beauty he found within it.

All this could be an example or an instance of how the folks from the Dharma Initiative manipulate people. Henry could very well be telling the truth about the computer and the code, God not being able to see this place, and everything else.

Excellent points- i hadnt thought of it that way--it definately was aimed at locke--he is now a pawn in the nothenry gale show

There are two explinations on where God cannot see. God can't see (if you believe in free will) what your going to do next is 1

2 God cannot not see that which does not exist.

So I am taking a wild guess here and going with the 2 nd thought as Fake Henry sees it.

Fake Henry throws another Twsiting Ball of Lies!!!! Spin the truth, rattle the mind, Shake the human mind to dust and then Create.

I agree with those who link the comment with feeling of abandonment and bitterness from Henry.

Regarding the above post, if one of the attributes of God is "all-knowing", then God would also know that which doesn't exist, could exist, or will exist. Also God would know what we are capable of doing or not doing, will do, or might do etc. Just because God knows it doesn't affect our free will. Remember the words from the Bible "I AM". Everything is known and present to God- past, present, and future.

Has anyone seen the Truman Show????


THANK YOU!!!! I read this whole thread without commenting in case anyone else thought the same as me! I'm not saying that this is the only valid theory (because it isn't), but WHAT IF:
1) This whole place is a self-contained giant habitat ( a sort of twisted-BioDome thing) that is located away from everything (or even underground).
2) Since they aren't exposed to a real sun, they would need to get their Vitamin D from somewhere--hence the Blacklights , which use UV rays.
3) During the food "drop" maybe some sort of opening appears in the "sky" above the hatch area and the food is dropped that way. That's why no one heard a plane.

Like I said, this isn't the only possibility, it's just one that I haven't seen a lot of talk about....yet.

I don't think Henry would have said it if Locke had'nt mentioned God, IMO Henry has'nt finished playing with Locke & Jack and he's just sowing the seeds...

Even when Sayid had a gun pointed at his head, he lied, I don't think he's stopped lying yet...

I took it as FakeHenry has seen some terrible things on the island and if things so terrible are allowed to go on, he thinks God must not be able to see it.
ya thats what he's insinuating I'd say, but like what ??? some sort of mass evil,diabolo237 maybe lol,

I agree with those who link the comment with feeling of abandonment and bitterness from Henry.

Regarding the above post, if one of the attributes of God is "all-knowing", then God would also know that which doesn't exist, could exist, or will exist. Also God would know what we are capable of doing or not doing, will do, or might do etc. Just because God knows it doesn't affect our free will. Remember the words from the Bible "I AM". Everything is known and present to God- past, present, and future.

That's why what Henry said (if he's telling the truth... big IF) would Disprove alternate realities or any Truman Show type of thing. Putting aside anyone's atheistic or polytheistic views (the only opinion of religion that matters when discussing Lost is the writers') Henry says that "God" can't see the island... but if it were an "alternate reality" then there would either be an "alternate" God or still the same God in charge of both realities. It doesn't fit. And God would certainly see a "Truman Show" type biosphere.
Taking everything into consideration if you believe that he is telling the truth (which I don't) then his statement appears to primarily be about frustration (the "God" part) and letting Locke know that no one knows that the island exists.

i believe him on this one because he has nothing to benefit from saying it...

That's not entirely true... Fenry (I like that name) has been focussing in on Locke for some time now, so it Absolutely makes sense for him to continue to mess with Locke's head by trying to undermine his beliefs.

I think that unHenry was messing with Locke - emphasizing that they will never be found and that neither he, nor the Losties, are in charge. Something much bigger is going on...


Exactly what I think.

THANK YOU!!!! I read this whole thread without commenting in case anyone else thought the same as me! I'm not saying that this is the only valid theory (because it isn't), but WHAT IF:
1) This whole place is a self-contained giant habitat ( a sort of twisted-BioDome thing) that is located away from everything (or even underground).
2) Since they aren't exposed to a real sun, they would need to get their Vitamin D from somewhere--hence the Blacklights , which use UV rays.
3) During the food "drop" maybe some sort of opening appears in the "sky" above the hatch area and the food is dropped that way. That's why no one heard a plane.

Like I said, this isn't the only possibility, it's just one that I haven't seen a lot of talk about....yet.

If the whole place were a bioDome, how would the plane have crashed there? Wouldn't that mean the plane had to have entered the dome at some point?

If the whole place were a bioDome, how would the plane have crashed there? Wouldn't that mean the plane had to have entered the dome at some point?

That would mean the pilot was probably working for Dharma.

purgatory. thats where all the losties are

Maybe it is hell, and they all died on the plane crash and they are paying for there sins. everyone on the plane is in fact a sinner...

hell would seem to me a place that you are told to push a button every 108 mins that does nothing.

NotHenry is the master at finding peoples weaknesses and using them. I believe that's all he did with Locke. As far as what NotHenry believes - who can say as he hasn't been straight on anything he's said about himself.

but if you think about it, where cant God "see"? hell. so its like a metaphor. the island is hell.

that was my interpretation at least.
Right, or more like Purgatory - the theory that works best but was first to be disclaimed.

:drowsy:

I still say that it is an alternate reality a la "Through the Looking Glass" and "The Wizard of Oz." I'm sure both of these fictional places could be considered invisible to God.

I also believe that whatever reality-altering mechanism Hanso and DHARMA have created.....the sickness that some people on the Island have developed and Danielle and Ethan talk about is a direct result of the time-space continuum shifts. Thus "Quarentine" noted on the doors of the hatch.
100%
Sorry to post so fast already but I just had a scene from the horror movie "Phantasm" flash into my head.

The "portal" in the funeral home that was used to bridge realities is an image that I can totally see JJ using as an influence. Anyone here watch Alias? There was one thread that discussed one of JJ's plots in Alias. One of the characters was supposed to be 500 years old. Seems that JJ has already expressed his interest with reagrd to the 4th dimension (time).

Can God see Purgatory?

I took it as FakeHenry has seen some terrible things on the island and if things so terrible are allowed to go on, he thinks God must not be able to see it.

I took the God part the same way. I also think there is a reason why the rest of the world cannot see the island, and he may know why.

but WHAT IF:
1) This whole place is a self-contained giant habitat

good lord people, this isnt the truman show! lets give the writers a little more credit than that.

as others said, imo it's simply a figure of speech (not to mention whether it was to manipulate locke or not). don't get me wrong but I really don't like to see a too religious shift in this show. if it's for the big picture, well done, if it's just for the sake of it, leave it out.

a I really don't like to see a too religious shift in this show. if it's for the big picture, well done, if it's just for the sake of it, leave it out.I agree totally.

I really don't want all this to be going towards some big lesson on morality, self-worth or whatever, there are enough shows doing that already.

I believe that "just call me Henry" is having a crisis of faith, he has seen so many things that are in his mind bad that he feels that there is no way that God could see it and stand idly by while it was going on.

Or he said it because he knows that Locke is a man of faith, it may be "just call me Henry's" mindgame.

FYI-God can see into Hell and Purgatory, its just something to say, to stir the pot.

I tend to agree with those who think that it's just a figure of speech, a hyperbole, and nothing much. Let's take a look at what "Henry" and Locke say, it's a matter of semantics, and "Henry" is a subtle interlocutor:

(Emphasis is mine)

LOCKE: You and your people have been here for God knows how long... and you got caught in a net...

"HENRY": God doesn't know.

LOCKE: Excuse me?

"HENRY": God doesn't know how long we've been here, John. He can't see this island any better than the rest of the world can.


It seems pretty evident: Locke is suggesting that "Henry" and the Others have been on this island for a long time. "Henry" corrects him, bitterly remarking that, well, he and his people have been on this island for a very very long time.

If I'd been Locke, I would have asked "Henry": How old are you?. Now, that would be an interesting question, considering the possibility of some Dharma Initiative's life-extension experiments.

If I'd been Locke, I would have asked "Henry": How old are you?. Now, that would be an interesting question, considering the possibility of some Dharma Initiative's life-extension experiments.

So the theory that the others are the descendants of the Black Rock survivors can be taken a bit further..They ARE the Black Rock Survivors.

I thought fake Henry's comments were the turning point of the show! After last weeks map showing strong activity from Cerebus, I have been convinced that the are in a limbo between heaven and hell. They all are sinners with issues to work out. "God would not see them" is a strong statement and I am sure it was meant literally. If the gates of hell are being guarded here on this island it sounds like a religious mess to me! Maybe Eko's building a church to save them all. Thants what I think anyway. Also the island definetly has issues with time travel-or time stopping. We do not know what year it is. Remember when Hurley and Sayid found the radio station. Sayid said 'I wonder where it it from' and Hurley said "or when". It was playing oldies. The time could have stopped during the food drop and that's why no one caught it being delivered. What a mess this show is-I LOVE it!!!

I take that line meaning that Henry has seen un-godly things happening on the island.

There is one place... Purgatory.. It is where you wander until you understand or atone for your sins.

OK lets try this in the context of the island, and events instead of looking at it as a solitary statement. It appears that the experimental stations are largely deserted because the former occupants were involved in a catastrophic event that reduced their population, probably some sort of disease per Danielle. Now we have a man apparently fleeing this reduced group who is in fear of a strong leader he can not name but instead refers to as "Him". He makes statements such as God can’t see here, I am a good person and so on. We have seen other members of that group speak of "Him" in awe or fear, we have seen other members of that group reference being a good person. Rather than greet survivors of a disaster as refugees, they treat them as a threat and trespassers. Taken all together I think Not-Henry believes God can not see them there because he has been subjected to a religious cult lead by "Him". Look at Not-Henry as a fearful half crazed refugee from a religious cult (doomsday cult?) and see if his actions and the statement about God might not make sense from his distorted point of view.

Or maybe it was just hyperbole from a lying Other :kiss:

What does that mean?
There isnt anywhere God cant see.....
Ok, I do think it was a figure of speech. To put some intensity on the subject. Remember in the movie "Titanic", Cal says "God himself couldnt even sink this ship". Kinda like that!!!

I still like the theory that the Dharma initiative is a giant psychological test. All Henry Gale has said since he's arrived has been lies or mind games. This comment, and probably what he said about the button, are part of that game as well. The button was a joke. It was silly to tell them to push a button and watch as they do it. The results from that test were solved. They would push the button. But will they stop after they're told the button won't do anything?

In my mind, Fake Henry might be a plant. As they pointed out, these guys don't get caught unless they want to. The Others probably figured the Losties wouldn't have the guts to do anything truly bad to Fake Henry, and Fake Henry himself is probably willing to make the sacrifice, so they send him in to add to the mind games.

We don't need to continue interpreting this line for its religious meanings... at least IMO

I think god cant see it because god doesnt exist and the others know that.

NotHenry is the master at finding peoples weaknesses and using them. I believe that's all he did with Locke. As far as what NotHenry believes - who can say as he hasn't been straight on anything he's said about himself.

I have to agree with this. Henry's definitely pushing every button John has. He's destroying Locke's faith that this is his great "destiny" because the button doesn't do anything, it's a joke, and God (can equate to destiny)doesn't have a darn thing to do with this island.

It reminds me of the line in Jurassic Park:

"God makes dinosaurs, God kills dinosaurs, Man kills God, Man Makes Dinosaurs..."

I believe some of the experiments carried on on this island could definitely equate with that therefore God is not anywhere because they "Killed HIM." (Not really but you get the symbolism.)

I honestly see it as just a forboding statement. If you're someplace even god can't see, then you're in a place where there is nothing that can help you anymore.

I don't read too much into it. !Henry might actually believe that his god can't help him on this island, that they're all beyond help in a hellish purgatory-- that doesn't actually mean that they are or that god can't (or even if it matters if he can or can't).

It had the feel to me of 'Abandon hope, all ye who enter this place.'
100%
I think god cant see it because god doesnt exist and the others know that.

Or maybe He's just down having a Pina Colada at Trader Vic's and not bothering to look...

And I bet his hair is perfect....

:cool: Everyone ignore me, I'm reaching my point in the night when exhaustion clashes with the caffiene and makes me slap happy :biggrin:

Lots of interesting ideas up here. I have to say though, while I do think the idea of the island existing within an alternate dimension or some kind of sub-space blah blah blah, this whole thing Faux-Henry said makes me think of the play "No Exit" by Sarte. Essentially the moral of that story is that hell is really other people. It could make sense then that the Others are really people who have just frickin been there so long that they have found this out, come to terms with their situation, and are working to escape it. They could have broken out of their respective skinner boxes, (the hatches), and left them for the lostaways to deal with...

I don't fully know about this though. Still too many loose ends out there, and Faux-Henry does have a tendency to say about anything to get under Locke's skin...

Maybe God can't see the island, or has no control over the island. What could hold a power to hide something from God? Satan... Or perhaps 'him'... Why would Henry be afraid of 'Him' killing him when he's in the Swan Station, he could have struck a deal for the survivors to allow him to stay in the station in return for information. Hard to believe someone could have found a way to obtain a power only rivaled by God. Then again, can any of you really honestly say that it's impossible when we're talking about LOST and it's creaters.

If that island is hell then then hell is WAY over exagerated

If that island is hell then then hell is WAY over exagerated

that... was funny... thank you

I do however concur... he meant that the island is Hell, but I think it was figurative as in "hell-ish"... but have you guys seen the movie "Crazy as Hell" or "The I Inside"... they are both about these guys who wake up in a nightmarish world only to discover in the end that it is Hell, and they will live it over and over again... I don't necessarily believe they are going for the whole Hell/Purgatory thing, even though there is strong evidence for that and many other theories, but it is an interesting idea to ponder... after all, theologically "Hell" is the absence of God

I think the writers just get a kick out of seeing the boards light up when they put in a line like that.
Also, though, since the creators have said that The Stand is a big influence, I'm sure that in some way they want to keep that theme going, we see the character's faith and how it influences their actions (was Charlie junk-sick; or was Charlie working on God's will when he grabbed Aaron to baptise him? Is Eko building a raft or a church?)
I've always been a big pusher of the purgatory theory, and maybe that line alludes to that: but I'm no theologian, and it seems like God could see into purgatory, but not hell (because what makes it hell is the absence of the creator). So maybe that doesn't fit.
More than likely, though, in context, the man-who-would-be-Henry Gale's just bitter about his life on the island and has no time for God or belief.

Is Eko building a raft or a church?

or an ark? blend of both - figuratively


I'm no theologian, and it seems like God could see into purgatory

depends on which theology... purgatory is more of a Catholic concept, it's not typically a Protestant belief, but Eko is a Catholic Priest, so maybe it fits here...

Maybe God didn't create the island, therefore not able to see it.

This sounds right.

good lord people, this isnt the truman show! lets give the writers a little more credit than that.
Remember though that the series was first envisioned as a dramatical version of the 'reality' TV show Survivor. I havent watched that show myself, but I have seen Big Brother, and what they do on that show is a 'lockdown' where the contestants are put into a specific area and the rest of the house is closed off while the producers introduce some new element to the house, sometimes food, etc. The parallels are too striking to be a mere coincidence so we should never forget the origins of Lost. It might not extend to the whole island, but the thought of the hatch being completely observed in the same manner as the TV show, complete with the 'lockdown' aspect is very interesting. It may well be some type of game, more David Fincher's The Game than the UK's channel 4 Big Brother though, what with the completely freaky stuff and deaths happening along the way.

Everyone has some very interesting ideas about what unHenry said and it seems to me that the whole conversation boils down to Man of Science/Man of Faith. There are the logical explanations (magnets, etc) and the mystical explanations (hell, etc). I tend to lean toward the logical, but we have to remember that some people actually died in the plane crash. How could Dharma (or anyone else for that matter) predetermine who would die and who would live? That makes me lean towards the mystical. I don't have any theories here, I just thought I'd mess with your noodles.

depends on which theology... purgatory is more of a Catholic concept, it's not typically a Protestant belief, but Eko is a Catholic Priest, so maybe it fits here...But henry didn't say the line to Eko, he said it to Lock, which box does lock put his faith in?

I've had this niggle going around in my head for a few days but couldn't quite get it to the surface. You just nudged it loose. Thank you! :cool:

It's about the combination of a couple of ideas; Cerberus guarding the gates of Hell and can God see into purgatory?

Well Cerberus is from Greek Mythology and the Greek Gods WERE fallable, so does the second part still apply?

The ideas of God and what God can or can't do are many and varied...to the point where actually attempting to pick the sentence apart is rather a waste of time.

However, if we take it from a purely Judeo-Christian perspective, then there is no place God cannot see. God can even see into Hell, and the Gospels illustrate this through the beggar who is at Abraham's bosom in Heaven looking across the gulf into Hell at those who didn't take care of him in the earthly life.

OTOH, if you take a more Gnostic or Kabalistic approach, then God operates through his Shekinah spirit, and the only place the Shekinah would not be would be where Satan is. Is Hanso the Anti-Christ?

The use of the word Dharma (and asian symbology), especially taken in the theory that a lot of the stuff going on in the bunkers has something to do with Nikola Tesla (something I touched on in another thread), then we might have to approach God from a Hindu perspective...creator, preserver, and destroyer. Under the surface, this one makes more sense to me in light of the Island's events and population. I'm no expert on Hinduism though, so perhaps someone else can expound on that.

Ultimately though, I think unHenry was just being philosophical...it was Locke who brought God into the conversation, after all. ;)

Or he said it because he knows that Locke is a man of faith, it may be "just call me Henry's" mindgame.


I'm not buying this one because from what I perceive, Locke's "faith" isn't neccessarily Christianity, it's in the island, the button, his legs etc...and from what I understand he's not real big on the bible (the discussion he had with Eko in the hatch). He has a knowledge of Sumerian and other mythology ("before Jesus Christ"). IMO, the God comment would not be a good mindgame tactic with Locke.

I'm in the alternate reality/dimension ship.

edit: good point Jakko, it was Locke who mentioned God first. But I think Locke was speaking figuratively.

Time travel, maybe. The rest of the world has gone to pot due to the DiVinci Code theories being proved true. The island is the last true place where faith can make difference. The losties have all lost their faith prior to getting on that plane. All chosen, all people of faith and science. It is a plot to save the world. To save the world from itself by creating a new base of faith for the world. "HE" maybe the descendant of Christ. It is eden. It's God's reset button. "HE" is choosing his new apostles.

this just popped into my head....

I weigh in here:

Why God Can't See Them: A Pocket Universe Approach (http://www.thefuselage.com/Threaded/showthread.php?t=43563)

But henry didn't say the line to Eko, he said it to Lock, which box does lock put his faith in?

I've had this niggle going around in my head for a few days but couldn't quite get it to the surface. You just nudged it loose. Thank you! :cool:

You are welcome, I love the liberation of an idea that's been forming but has yet to take shape!

But let me clarify, I wasn't so much referring to the brand of Christian theology used in this specific scene, but in general, that in most of the scenes where Christianity has been referenced it has been of a more Catholic nature rather than Protestant or Evangelical... so in keeping with their past uses of religion or spirituality, it would make sense if this too was in connection to a more Catholic ideal or doctrine...

However, if we take it from a purely Judeo-Christian perspective, then there is no place God cannot see. God can even see into Hell, and the Gospels illustrate this through the beggar who is at Abraham's bosom in Heaven looking across the gulf into Hell at those who didn't take care of him in the earthly life.

this is a majorly debated topic (God being holy and pure, "sin" cannot abide in His presence, ergo "Jesus" or we wouldn't have a chance in Hell - pun intended - of going to Heaven)... which we don't really have go into here, so I'll refrain, but there are different schools of thought on it, a complicated issue to say the least... but that's why He is God, if we could wrap our minds around all of His mysteries, then He wouldn't be God, just the figment of our imaginations, hmmm...

The "Abraham's bosom" story is also attributed to the Catholic idea of Purgatory... and typically Protestants adhere to the doctrine that the human spirit goes to one place or the other not in the middle...

Just some clarifications for those debating on God's involvement from a Judeo-Christian viewpoint:

1) God can see everywhere that exists and does not exist. Remember that God, in the form of Christ, even broke down the gates of hell after the crucifiction.

2) Lucifer, or satan, is not the opposite or equal of God. He is simply a fallen angel that was punished by God. Lucifer was made by God and has no power over him or against him that is not granted by God himself.

3) Limbo does not exist from a Catholic perspective. It was a short lived theory to deal with children that died before baptism. However, the Church has denounced this theory and now contends children that die before baptism is possible go to Heaven. Also according to this point Aaron (a baby) would not be in Purgatory.

4) Theological definition does not state that Hell is the absence of God. However it is the location of souls that choose to turn away from God in pursuit of other earthly or metaphysical things. It is not God's absence that makes it unbearable, but the realization that you have betrayed and turned you back on the only redemption that was available to you. You have chosen death over life.

There are some other things that I noticed, but these are some basic tennants of common Christian thought. Although this does not cover all sects of Christianity.

The writers have said there won't be any supernatural explanations. Got to be hyperbole. Fake Henry is in some way or another a victim or he wouldn't be so frightened of HIM. He is being used against the Lost for some reason. Possibly They have his child and are using it for leverage. At any rate Fake.H. beleves that the harm that can befall him will be worse than death. I wish Sayed would 'question ' him a bit more rigorosly.

see, there are so many different schools of thought and interpretation (depending on one's denomination- Baptist, Methodist, Pentecostal, Presbyterian, Emergent, and so on and so on, each one thinking that their religious realm of interpretation is the “norm” for every other group) even amongst Judeo-Christians, we could debate this topic to the point of exhaustion, so I won’t go back and discuss differing views to the above, cause this could just be infinite... darn Henry and His controversial statement!!! But he has started a really rich a deep conversation that could be very negatively heated and/or positively fruitful…

I think ultimately that the Christian, spiritual, and religious tones are very present in LOST, but are merely pieces to the larger puzzle... which, as someone over on the "Pocket Universe Theory" pointed out, is much more about the psychological, emotional, mental, and yes spiritual transformations and revelations of the characters (ergo the flashbacks) than it is the physical mystery of the island and the Dharma Initiative, those are just tools to highlight the larger social statements being made...

C'mon, guys. It was just an innocent statement of desperation and feeling trapped. Sure, by now I believe thoroughly that there is indeed some sort of magnetic field around the island (they've as much as said so in a roundabout fashion with numerous clues), but to take the comment as such a crytpical, philosophical one is a bit much. "I can't tell you because he'll kill me!" Does that sound like the words someone would use if they were a fanatical believer of some cause, or a voluntary member of some group? No, sounds more like he, like everyone else, is stuck, and being forced to play by someone else's rules or suffer (big time) the consequences. I'm betting that Fake Henry hates everything about his situation, doesn't want to be there at all (on the island), and is only adhering to "Other" rules out of fear. We've seen "Others" that kill without compunction, but this guy doesn't come across like they did (his helping Locke instead of slipping away is a good indicator of this). Based on that, I'm also betting that he didn't kill the real Henry, but naturally knew about what happened, --may even have been present and kept his mouth shut while it was happening--, but doesn't want to be a killer or liar. Were I in Jack's position, with the evidence given so far, I'd offer him (Fake Henry) the chance to remain with them as part of their group. He'd have to share what knowledge he had, of course, for the benefit of everyone, but could reside with them in exile. I'd also Break Sawyer's kneecaps, get back the guns and meds, and set up security watches (something they should have done ages ago with the known threats on the island).

"I can't tell you because he'll kill me!" Does that sound like the words someone would use if they were a fanatical believer of some cause, or a voluntary member of some group?

good point... that is a very physical and "alive" statement, why would he be afraid to "die" if he was already dead!?! right? well, unless he's just mess'n with their minds, aaaa, like he's messing with mine!!!:eek2:

The question becomes, as I said in the last post, what would be worse than death to Fake H. ?
He helped Locke because he does not want to escape, he wants the Lost to trust him and what better way than to appear to them as some one with the capacity for good. Afterall every single Other we have seen has been a violent nasty Bast**d. Why would Fake H. be different, he is there for the same reason.
Oh yes... why are Jack and Locke so insistant on the weapons being under their control? Possibly just the writers own anti-freedom/anti-gun biasis emerging, who knows, but not even extreme Blue state liberals would be dumb enough to not set a security watch.
I got very pissed when The Good Doctor started conviscating their only protection. That is just dumb!

The writers have said there won't be any supernatural explanations. Got to be hyperbole.

I completely agree. In fact, at this point, with all the clues and situations we've seen, it would have to be. Things that some might label supernatural are definitely present (mostly esper type stuff, but also the linked-dreaming and manfiestations of things from the mind on the island), but in the end, the explanation (for everything as a whole) will be within the realm of science and normality.

We've got an island that was a research station. They studied various things, some of which were paranormal. Something went wrong, and everything we've seen appears to be elements of each form of research going wild, sometimes overlapping or mixed. The "monster" is the best example so far, appearing to have facets from the magnetic, weather, and esper reasearch, all tied-together into the semi-defunt security system. If you accept ESP and other mental abilities as normal, if rare, then you can include them and not fall into the "supernatural" category.

My point exactly... we will be given a "rational" explanation for the events at some point. Although "rational" and its true meaning are up for grabs.
I havent read the term "Esper" in many years. There can be only ONE Kurgan!

but not even extreme Blue state liberals would be dumb enough to not set a security watch. LOL as a blue state liberal gun owner, I thank you :cool: I share your concern over the lack of guards and Jack's poorly thought out need to maintain control of the guns rather than letting his 'immature' followers have them for protection. It does make me wonder if the writers are suffering from an anti-gun bias.

I stick with my position that Not-Henry's actions & actions make sense if viewed in the context of a cultist trying to flee from the island doomsday cult. A cult formed by "Him" after disease collapsed the experiment station society killing much of the population and putting the island into a state of quarantine. Run Not-Henry Run & tell no one who you really are!

Okay so nobody not even God can see the island, yet:

1) The Black Rock crew found it;
2) Dharma found it;
3) Danielle and her crew found it;
4) Eko's brother found it;
5) Desmond found it:
6) The real Henry Gale found it;
7) Oceanic Flight 815 found it; and
8) The plane or whatever it is that drops the food found it.

There may even be more people who have found the island that we do not even know about yet.

I bet if God wanted to find the island, God could find it too.

Okay so nobody not even God can see the island, yet:

1) The Black Rock crew found it;
2) Dharma found it;
3) Danielle and her crew found it;
4) Eko's brother found it;
5) Desmond found it:
6) The real Henry Gale found it;
7) Oceanic Flight 815 found it; and
8) The plane or whatever it is that drops the food found it.

There may even be more people who have found the island that we do not even know about yet.

I bet if God wanted to find the island, God could find it too.

That's a great post, thanks for that! :)

I wonder how much of what Henry said was just to aggravate Locke and possibly cause him to question his faith?

The quote is, “God doesn't know....God doesn't know how long we've been here John....God can't see this island anymore than the rest of the world can..."

But then again, Fake Henry Gale is a liar - though he says near the end, "I'm done lying."

???

i thought there not in hell or purgatory ?? could of swore i saw on the daily show when matthew fox was on it , he said that its nothing like that, theyre very much alive!??! unless he has no idea wuts goin on in the show:confused:

The question keeps getting asked, whats worse for anti-henry than personal death itself, why he's so afraid of telling any information about the people he knows that Jack's crew is referring to.

I've heard alternate dimension theories, he's Hanso/Him/etc, and theyre all cool theories. I also have my own theories, but mine stick to a more literary - 'what would i do if i was writing a TV show, and make it really good?' sense.

Whenever I hear all these crazy ideas, I think about Occam's Razor.

http://pespmc1.vub.ac.be/OCCAMRAZ.html

We can theorise all day and night (and all summer between seasons :P), but it's all just **MOD edited again** One guy wants to come up with the best theory to try and 'convince' other people he/she is right.

From a writing standpoint, all I can say on my own behalf - keep theorising, chances are the writers are reading through everyone of these posts and desperately trying to make a better show for everyone by writing something that is NOT already thought of in these websites. There goes that great show everyone misses, too bad for their crazy fans (guilty, haha).

As far as Anti Henry goes, do you really think the writers worked in alternate dimensions, and the color of the guy's shirt standing behind sawyer 15mins and 22 seconds into the show is a buddhist or shinto color which means dharma must be an evil organisation out to kill everyone, OR

is it possible that a whole boat-and-plane load of people crashed on this island, which not by coincidence or providence that all intersections of their meetings are as unlikely as they are - but by intent.

And is it possible that Anti-Henry is Him, or that he suffers delusions of grandeur and sees himself as a Jesus figure (an idea which I like, thank you) and builds that up for himself, or is really at Swan Station to infiltrate, or finish Ethans job he failed at, OR,

is it possible that in the nature of the writing of the show, using cleverly places euphimisms and figures of speech, dialogue tension, the writers have created this thing called - ready - Suspense, and are building up for something very unlike hyperdimensions, or a rift between Heaven and Hell, but an exciting and unforseen character development and storyline twist, not only continuing to put strain on the main character(s), and their situations?

Maybe Anti-Henry got roughed up more than anyones fair share by The Others, and knows too much, and got left out in the jungle to die via polar bear, and got caught in a net by a crazy french MOD EDIT-LANGUAGE which immediately surrendered him (typical), to a another dangerous, and very well desperate crew, and he simply just doesnt want to get a beat down again by the North Shore boys if they find out what he said; and maybe in not saying anything he's really protecting not only his ***, but - everyone elses. However, I his character going nowhere else except spilling the beans which will thus lead to your next character/storyline strain.....and END SEASON.

I'm sure it can become much more boiled down than that. Unfortunately, thats a much less popular activity amongst conspiracy theorists, however, it may end up being closer to true than you may have intended.

Occam's Razor peeps...

A lot of you people are taking too literal of a religious standpoint in trying to explain this. Try thinkin science-fiction. The only way to create a plot where people on an Island God can't "see" is Science-fiction. C'mon. This is a TV show! Not a historical documentary.

Get with it people and think outside the box a little.

What does that mean?
There isnt anywhere God cant see.....

That , more than anything we have seen or heard on the island has the most chilling effect. For a person to believe that they are out of sight not only of man but God is a terrible thing. It is not the words of an atheist, it is the words of the fallen.

I think that the statement is not a literal statement as well. Henry refers to the fact that the island is not visible to the outside world. I think the magnetic field around the island plays a role in this, but does anyone remember the Dharma Initiative Training Video? The Trainer instructs the viewer of the need to reset the alarm every 108 minutes and has a model of the lab set up in the background. What I thought was interesting was the geo-desic dome constructed around what appeared to be the inside of their hatch? Is there some kind of quasi-geodesic dome construct surrounding the island that makes it difficult for radar, satellite, or even basic visual observers to see the island? There must be some reason for the Buckminster Fuller reference...

Ok I just registered to post to this topic.

Sorry if someone mentioned this before but the creators of the show kind of answered the "cloaking" question a while back. There was an interview where Lindelof or Abrams described the overall idea of the island.

They said that it was extremely ancient and mystical and somehow invisible to the rest of the world. It seems that they imply that people accidentally find it from time to time and try to investigate it's mystical/sci-fi properties.

The way I see it is that NotHenryGale was just part of the DHARMA scientific research facility investigating the island properties one of which is being somehow mystically "cloaked" from the rest of the world. His statement was quite literal about the world not being able to see the island.

Remember the movie the "Village" same concept, no planes would fly over the area it was restricted airspace. Maybe Henry Gale is some rich guy who is doing an experiment and he needed to get caught to see how everyone else on the island is doing?:undecide:

They said that it was extremely ancient and mystical and somehow invisible to the rest of the world. It seems that they imply that people accidentally find it from time to time and try to investigate it's mystical/sci-fi properties. OK the Dharma information said they wanted to set up a station to investigate the magnetic anomaly, they constructed and staffed the stations plus the Dharma plane(?) makes supply drops; so there is a way for people not on the island to locate it. I am not sure if those who land on it can leave but its location is known to Dharma staff. The above menas it is either visible to the outside world or it has some sort of shadow/reflection/noticeable void spot that can be seen & located.

Henry's statement was hyperbole or an attempt to goad Locke or a denial by a person who had lost his faith. It was not meant as a literal statement of fact.

Ok I just registered to post to this topic.
Sorry if someone mentioned this before but the creators of the show kind of answered the "cloaking" question a while back. There was an interview where Lindelof or Abrams described the overall idea of the island.
They said that it was extremely ancient and mystical and somehow invisible to the rest of the world. It seems that they imply that people accidentally find it from time to time and try to investigate it's mystical/sci-fi properties.
The way I see it is that NotHenryGale was just part of the DHARMA scientific research facility investigating the island properties one of which is being somehow mystically "cloaked" from the rest of the world. His statement was quite literal about the world not being able to see the island.

Nice to see you join! I can see you're theory and can agree with it as well as several other people's.

I see Henry's comment as less literal and more figurative.

Think in the lines of the Evolutionist vs. Religion, Science vs. Faith, in other words, the ENTIRE MESSAGE OF THE SERIES.

Scientists tend to not have the same view of "God", if any, as say a devout person. In view of some of the stated experiment areas on the island and possible results (ie. Smokey), it's pretty obvious that any belief in "God" could be sorely tested, if not destroyed, but some of those scientist wondering, "What kind of God would allow this to happed, come about, and not stop?" (same thing as most people think during wars and catastropic events).

It's very easy during these times to explain such things as "there is NO God" or for those who don't want to totally give up but believe their God would not allow this, "God can't see this place", meaning I'm in Hell or God has abandoned me here. That's all I see this statement to mean.

Example from Jurassic Park:

"God creates dinosaurs. God kills dinosaurs. God creates Man.
Man destroys God. Man creates dinosaurs..."

(I'm sure several women are smiling to themselves remembering the end of that arguement. ;) )
100%
its location is known to Dharma staff. The above menas it is either visible to the outside world or it has some sort of shadow/reflection/noticeable void spot that can be seen & located.

I agree that at least DI knows where it is but that doesn't mean it has to be seen at all. All that is required for a supply drop is a set of coordinates. Secret organizations know who to pick for jobs and how to discourage questions. For all the pilots know, they could be dropping supplies in the middle of the ocean.

Remember, "Ours is not to reason why, ours is do or DIE."

For all the pilots know, they could be dropping supplies in the middle of the ocean.LOL so the pilots who first flew the Dharma staff in thought they were dropping people in the middle of the ocean or if they landed to unload they used a seaplane thinking they would hit water not land. Hope I don't get one of those pilots for my next flight. Also hope Dharma has honest pilots who go ahead and drop the supplies instead of putting them on the black market under the theory that they were going to be flushed away anyhow so no one would notice if they didn't splash in to the sea.

"Splunking into the ocean void!" Beats "Where no man has gone before." anytime! :cool:

If the island is so well hidden and 'even god cant see it' , how did the plane crash in the first place ?

LOL so the pilots who first flew the Dharma staff in thought they were dropping people in the middle of the ocean or if they landed to unload they used a seaplane thinking they would hit water not land. Hope I don't get one of those pilots for my next flight. Also hope Dharma has honest pilots who go ahead and drop the supplies instead of putting them on the black market under the theory that they were going to be flushed away anyhow so no one would notice if they didn't splash in to the sea.

"Splunking into the ocean void!" Beats "Where no man has gone before." anytime! :cool:

Yeah, who would have thunk it? Brain dead pilots...hmmph...Guess I should get more realistic.

Hmm...You know, they don't make brain-dead pilots like they used to. Wait, Hanso exclaims as he hits his head with his palm. "I have a brilliant idea, DeGoot! The military has a great market for brain-dead pilots. Let's make some!"

DeGroot: Cheers! (glasses clink)

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Sorry. Couldn't help it. Must be time for the meds Dave told me to stop taking!

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Sorry, Sorry, Wait. (sigh, swallow) I'm better now. Really.

Actually, I was only referring to the food drops not the original setup and instillations on the island and whose to say it's even DI pilots doing the drops. It could be a corporate set up to pick this covered pallet up here and drop at these coordinates then a wire transfer ends up in someone's bank account, no questions asked. I know there are people in the world who would do it without hesitation. So, I can definitely buy it on a tv show.
100%
If the island is so well hidden and 'even god cant see it' , how did the plane crash in the first place ?

God didn't like them very much and banished them from his sight?:lipsseal:

-------------------------------------------------------

Oops....sorry, sorry.....mom warned everyone I'd have days like this, but multiply posts....meds, please.

I'm thinking their in some area like the Bermuda triangle where ships and planes used to get lost well maybe this whole island is in such an area. Only dharma know where to find it that's why no hel or rescue came, why the plane crashed there, why they cant leave. and why Henry would say God cant see it.

If the island is so well hidden and 'even god cant see it' , how did the plane crash in the first place ? I am not sure of your question here. A falling plane would hit whatever is in its path, (visible or invisible: hidden or not hidden, would not matter). Are you assuming the plane was forced down to a specific location? That would only require knowledge of the islands location, not visibility, alternately if it was a force beaming out from the island that brought the plane down, that would not require the island to be visible.

I'm thinking their in some area like the Bermuda triangle where ships and planes used to get lostThe "sargasso sea" that was reputed to trap ships would also be a possible comparison.

Actually, I was only referring to the food drops not the original setup and instillations on the islandMy thinking was that the original setup would have required an ability to locate the island since it was an intentional setup not an accidental one. Perhaps a wreck survivor who escaped the island with the location coordinates would fill the bill for how Dharma first located it? Since the Lostaway rafters continued to see the island as they drifted out to sea and since the others were in a boat that returned to shore, the island must be visible within a certain radius.

maybe they're on another planet

If the whole place were a bioDome, how would the plane have crashed there? Wouldn't that mean the plane had to have entered the dome at some point?

Not necessarily. Who said the plane crashed? People wake up on a beach, surrounded by wounded and a wreckage.....who said anything about a crash?! They were just planted there to simulate a crash.

good lord people, this isnt the truman show! lets give the writers a little more credit than that.
The Truman Show wasn't the first to think of the concept. (The studio had a lawsuit against it, in fact, by someone who wrote a play, prior to the movie, about a similar concept.) So, therefore, The Truman Show was borrowing the theme...who said these writers aren't also??....besides, I didn't say that this was my belief....I just said that it was POSSIBLE.
100%
They said that it was extremely ancient and mystical and somehow invisible to the rest of the world. It seems that they imply that people accidentally find it from time to time and try to investigate it's mystical/sci-fi properties.

If this is true, then how is the island found in order to bring supplies?

[quote=morpheus917;908638]Not necessarily. Who said the plane crashed? People wake up on a beach, surrounded by wounded and a wreckage.....who said anything about a crash?! They were just planted there to simulate a crash.

Um you must have missed that part in Kates flashback where the plane ripped in half and started to crash...not to mention in the TO48D, they show the back of the plane crash into the ocean!!!.....I call that a plane crash

i think what the writers love to do is throw out a line of dialouge that could have multiple meanings and watch the chaos that ensues when everyone dissects its every detail.

i'm not complaining....i love that aspect of the show.

at first i took the faux Henry line to mean something along the lines that they were cloaked or something is physically blocking the island. i do still think that to a small extent, but the god line is one of those that could have a double meaning.

someone mentioned earlier about some much terrible stuff going on that naturally someone would figure that god had abandoned the place. i'm with that.

and no matter what you believe in, this show is about faith, science and all that. losing faith and thinking god has abandoned you is a common theme in the bible and other stories all the way up to our time period.

the island (like Arrakis wink, wink) is there to test the faithful. and the people who believe in science will have their own set of definitions.

I think that the statement is not a literal statement as well. Henry refers to the fact that the island is not visible to the outside world. I think the magnetic field around the island plays a role in this, but does anyone remember the Dharma Initiative Training Video? The Trainer instructs the viewer of the need to reset the alarm every 108 minutes and has a model of the lab set up in the background. What I thought was interesting was the geo-desic dome constructed around what appeared to be the inside of their hatch? Is there some kind of quasi-geodesic dome construct surrounding the island that makes it difficult for radar, satellite, or even basic visual observers to see the island? There must be some reason for the Buckminster Fuller reference...


The cloak was lifted for the food drop yeah? When FauxHenry didn't press the numbers in.....the island was visible and the food drop could happen because the plane (or whatever) could see the island.......:drowsy:

Ow! My eyes have to get used to this. Maybe g*d can't see in the UV spectrum

Ow! My eyes have to get used to this. Maybe g*d can't see in the UV spectrum

This looks like a Bratz webpage now.

This looks like a Bratz webpage now.River WHY would you even know that?:biggrin:

River WHY would you even know that?:biggrin:

Guys can't like Bratz? Don't hate. :cool:

Guys can't like Bratz? Don't hate. :cool::rolleyes: It's just amazing the things you will learn about people.

There are some good ideas running ont his thread!!!
I just connected the Lockdown with the food drop. It had nothing to do with entering the numbers, the lockdown happened so that they could cut the cloaking/magnet/forcefield that covers the island and drop the food. BRILLANT!
Fake Henry is so jaded, he is a pawn in someone else game. He obviously fears whatever "HIM" can do more than being shot by Syeid. At this point I think Fake Henry thinks he can still carry out his mission. If the Losties were going to kill him they would have done it by now.

There are some good ideas running ont his thread!!!
I just connected the Lockdown with the food drop. It had nothing to do with entering the numbers, the lockdown happened so that they could cut the cloaking/magnet/forcefield that covers the island and drop the food

I think Charlie realised that the fastest, I probably would not have made the connection but towards the end of Lockdown he pointed out that the hatch doors probably came down to stop whoever inhabited the hatch from seeing the plane...

The Losties would have heard a plane engine though, I'm thinking it must have been some stealth glider...

I think Fenry's line of 'God can't see this place' was as a response to Locke's use of the saying, 'God only knows.' I use that saying quite a bit and I'm not Christian - if you refer to God it does not mean you are necessarily religious.
100%
Another theory that my co-worker goes with is that the Island is pergatory - half way between Heaven and Hell. He says that's why all the characters who remain are 'in conflict' with themselves. Once they resovle their issues they'll either 'die' or 'be kidnapped' by the Others - metaphorically speaking of course.

So if the Island is Limbo, wouldn't that mean that God can't see it?

He is a physicist though, and I asked him if there could possibly be an electromagnet strong enough to pull a plane down from the sky. He said yes - but a magnet that strong would pull people's watches, jewellery and even fillings.

An electromagnetic force would mean that any navigational equipment, such as that on a plane or boat, would not work at all. This could make the Island uncharterable.

Hi, this is my first post all the way from not so sunny England. My theories in relation to the island being cloaked is as follows: If you have seen the film The Village, there are some possible parallels with Lost.
A rich guy/corporation buys some land and makes sure it is a no fly zone so that he/they can build a crime free utopia away from the rest of society. They use fake monsters to keep the residents in check and shelter the inhabitants from straying away from the micro society.
The plane crash was possibly manufactured to bring new subjects for the sociological/bio medical experiments they carry out or was an accident.
This leads to my other theory about the magnets, they are set to either repel or attract so when the plane crashed it was brought in by the pull of the magnet in a controlled manor, hence the lack of casualties but normally the magnet is set to repel (which is why there are no other plane/ship sightings!).
Watch The Village and see the similarities, if nothing else it's a good film!

Hi, this is my first post all the way from not so sunny England. My theories in relation to the island being cloaked is as follows: If you have seen the film The Village, there are some possible parallels with Lost.
A rich guy/corporation buys some land and makes sure it is a no fly zone so that he/they can build a crime free utopia away from the rest of society. They use fake monsters to keep the residents in check and shelter the inhabitants from straying away from the micro society.
The plane crash was possibly manufactured to bring new subjects for the sociological/bio medical experiments they carry out or was an accident.
This leads to my other theory about the magnets, they are set to either repel or attract so when the plane crashed it was brought in by the pull of the magnet in a controlled manor, hence the lack of casualties but normally the magnet is set to repel (which is why there are no other plane/ship sightings!).
Watch The Village and see the similarities, if nothing else it's a good film!Butterfly Catchers, Welcome to the Fuselage. There are many very nice people here, Enjoy.

For what it is worth, I got the impression that "Henry" and Locke were not speaking the same language. Henry's God comment came out of nowhere. But.. wait a sec, maybe the word GOD meant something different to "Henry". He wasnt speaking of the religious term but something else. Maybe the word "god" is a ephemisim for something real. Like.. (and I am wildly speculating here, forgive me) G.O.D... maybe Geo-Orbiter D----- a spy satellite orbiting the Earth every 108 minutes. By typing the code, it maintains the cloaking device. Anyway, Henry didnt seem to be much of a theologian to me so I suspect the God he was talking about was something quite different.

I think the Island is one of the places Isaac talked about, places with great energy that comes up from the Earth. We know there's a great deal of electromagnetic energy in the vicinity of the Hatch.

I think this energy--either naturally or because it's been manipulated--is able to fold space (and perhaps time) around the Island to isolate it from the rest of the world/Universe. And I think the equipment in the Hatch serves either to maintain this isolation or to keep the door cracked open just enough that there is from time to time a chance to get in and out. Just enough time, for example, for a plane to drop supplies or for another plane to crash there.

If a wealthy and powerful organization were to discover the existence of such an island (if its comings and goings, left to itself, were erratic), and if they were able to control access in and out, then such a place would be ideal for carrying out activities that were either incredibly dangerous or incredibly secret.

UPDATE: I hadn't read all the pages of this thread when I posted. Put me in the "pocket Universe" crowd.

Yes. Yes. Yes. Without a doubt, you reinforced my theory very eloquently and beautifully. Everything you have stated is exactly what is happening on the Island.

Say for instance the search teams that were looking for the crash. They wouldn't find anything unless they were passing through the area the same time the Island was changing dimensions.

Thank you.