So first Charlie destroys his heroin. He feels free at last. Then, uh oh. He finds a planeload of heroin. What's a guy to do? Start stashing of course. This is his test.

Now Hurley has a secret stash of food and destroys it. He says he feels free. What happens? Another planeload of food arrives. Another test. Very similar.

What do you think is behind the island testing these two in such similar ways? So far, neither have really overcome their addictions. They haven't passed yet.

Locke helped Charlie at first. Libby helped Hurley. We're not sure what's up with either of those two or what their motives are.

I just found the parallels interesting.

Excellent.

Test of the Spirt.

So first Charlie destroys his heroin. He feels free at last. Then, uh oh. He finds a planeload of heroin. What's a guy to do? Start stashing of course. This is his test.

Now Hurley has a secret stash of food and destroys it. He says he feels free. What happens? Another planeload of food arrives. Another test. Very similar.

What do you think is behind the island testing these two in such similar ways? So far, neither have really overcome their addictions. They haven't passed yet.

Locke helped Charlie at first. Libby helped Hurley. We're not sure what's up with either of those two or what their motives are.

I just found the parallels interesting. I attribute it to lack of creativity on the writers' part. They keep going back to the well for these characters' conflicts, and can't come up with anything else.

Just like Hurley can't give up his food, the writers can't completely throw away their plot-crutches of the Heroin and the food. If they got rid of the heroin and the food completely, they'd have to come up with new issues for those characters to deal with, and they just can't bring themselves to do it. They try... the have Charlie saying he's done... but then leave the possibility there by not destroying all of the heroin. Same with Hurley and the food.

The writers are lazy, IMO.

But does it really have to be the island?

For example I quit smoking back in December. However I frequently have to endure people around me smoking. This makes it more challenging for me. One could say it's a test, but I don't feel any force in particular is testing me; the test is a personal one.

Sooner or later, Hurley would have had the opportunity to pig out again. Same could be said with Charlie regarding heroin. Sayid found himself easily resorting to torture as means of reaching an end. We all have to face our own weaknesses. This is a part of life.

Granted it is coincidental that the food drop happened right after Hurley threw out his stash. Then again, I'm sure we've all had life kick us in the nuts the same way.

I attribute it to lack of creativity on the writers' part. They keep going back to the well for these characters' conflicts, and can't come up with anything else.

Just like Hurley can't give up his food, the writers can't completely throw away their plot-crutches of the Heroin and the food. If they got rid of the heroin and the food completely, they'd have to come up with new issues for those characters to deal with, and they just can't bring themselves to do it. They try... the have Charlie saying he's done... but then leave the possibility there by not destroying all of the heroin. Same with Hurley and the food.

The writers are lazy, IMO.

I completely disagree. Keep in mind that they've only been on the island for 2 months. Charlie isn't going to just get over his addiction all of a sudden. The creators have said time and time again that these people all have harsh pasts and that it's going to take some time to heal. I don't think that they are lazy at all, I think that the show is being very realistic about how humans have trouble overcoming their issues.

But I'm more concerned with the way they seem to be tested. I know there are tests in the real world, but when you burn your heroin on a remote island and then a planeful of it crashes there, that's more than coincidence. When Hurley destroys his food stash and then a minute later finds the restock from the plane, the timing is too perfect. Is someone or something really testing them deliberately?

Well, don't pay too much mind to me tonight. I'm severely disappointed in this flop of an episode, so I'm a little jaded tonight. ;)

But honestly, Charlie had used up the last of this heroin, he was well on the road to recovery, and ... the writers didn't know what to do with him. So what do they do? Dump an entire PLANE full of heroin on the island. And then have him struggle with it all over again, and still win... only to have them keep just enough around to possibly recycle this same tired conflict again later when they can't think of anything else for Charlie to do.

Next thing you know, Hurley will be denouncing Dharma food, and overcoming his problem, only to discover a McDonald's on the island.

The question is - is the island really testing them or tempting them? Hurley's doctor told him that Dave didn't want him to change.Hurley told Dave that he(Dave) wanted Hurley to eat himself to death.The doctor had told Hurley that eating was a way of punishing himself.Dave was continually urging Hurley to punish himself(eat).

I think Dave showing up was as much the island as the food showing up. The island works through dreams too(Charlie's, and Lockes) so why not through the psyche of someone who was once mentally ill.

What got me was that this "Dave" was asking Hurley to jump off a cliff.Locke's dream led to Boones death.Shannon's vision of Walt led to her death.Jack almost died when he fell following his father.Once again another island generated apparation(so real that it seems real) is leading a lostie to a possible death. And considering Hurley's state if Libby hadn't showed up he might have jumped off that cliff.

And you're right neither of them have overcome their addictions --I'm not even sure the island wants them too. Not sure where I stand on the issue. Is the island good or bad? Maybe it's just perspective -- Henry(if we believe him) thinks it's bad(just the way I interpreted the God comment). Locke thought it was destiny.(or good) Others have just been making the best of it.

So first Charlie destroys his heroin. He feels free at last. Then, uh oh. He finds a planeload of heroin. What's a guy to do? Start stashing of course. This is his test.

Now Hurley has a secret stash of food and destroys it. He says he feels free. What happens? Another planeload of food arrives. Another test. Very similar.

Couldn't agree with you more.

But does it really have to be the island?

For example I quit smoking back in December. However I frequently have to endure people around me smoking. This makes it more challenging for me. One could say it's a test, but I don't feel any force in particular is testing me; the test is a personal one.

I quit smoking a few years back too, so I feel you, but with you that when you quit, cartons of cigarettes didn't fall from the sky (at least that didn't happen in my case). In pacejunkie's post he's pointing out not only the parallel with them being tempted in their biggest weakness, but their biggest weaknesses literally fell from the sky!

its a shame that someone doesnt have an addiction to cheap hookers. prostitutes falling from the sky! now that episode would bring monster ratings!!

its a shame that someone doesnt have an addiction to cheap hookers. prostitutes falling from the sky! now that episode would bring monster ratings!!

I don't usually get a a kick out of some of the responses, but mbsieve, that had me rolling. Me too! I can see it now! :rotflmao:

The question is - is the island really testing them or tempting them? And you're right neither of them have overcome their addictions --I'm not even sure the island wants them too. Not sure where I stand on the issue. Is the island good or bad? Maybe it's just perspective -- Henry(if we believe him) thinks it's bad(just the way I interpreted the God comment). Locke thought it was destiny.(or good) Others have just been making the best of it.

Thanks Michelle. This is kind of what I was wondering about, but you said it better than I did. Does the island want them to pass their tests or not? Is this some kind of survival of the fittest test designed to weed out the weak and be left with only the strongest mentally? Boone was weeded out, but not by Boone's vision, by Locke's. Charlie was pushed to act in a way that would ostracize himself from the group. Was that the intended result? Was he getting in the island's way? I guess until we know what the island's agenda is we can't know if it's intentions are good or bad.

I quit smoking a few years back too, so I feel you, but with you that when you quit, cartons of cigarettes didn't fall from the sky (at least that didn't happen in my case). In pacejunkie's post he's pointing out not only the parallel with them being tempted in their biggest weakness, but their biggest weaknesses literally fell from the sky!

Thank you. That was the parallel I found interesting. (And I'm a she by the way :smile: ).

LOL, pace... I logged on this morning specifically to see if anyone had started a thread on this yet.

The parallels are striking, aren't they? Charlie and Hurley both had a stash that they gave up voluntarily with the encouragement of a helper, only to be faced with a greater temptation. So many similarities... right down to their facial expressions when they indulged their addictions, and Locke and Libby both saying "I'm proud of you."

I really liked what the doctor said about Hurley eating to punish himself. It explained why such a nice guy would steal food from the group... He blames himself for the plane crash and it's making him self-destructive.

I wonder about Dave showing up right then. From Hurley's background, it seems possible that he would conjure Dave up at that point on his own, because he was making progress toward overcoming his problems with food. But, like Michelle67, I'm more inclined to believe that Dave's appearance was due to some outside influence on the island... Another parallel with Charlie and his dreams.

The parallels are striking, aren't they? Charlie and Hurley both had a stash that they gave up voluntarily with the encouragement of a helper, only to be faced with a greater temptation. So many similarities... right down to their facial expressions when they indulged their addictions, and Locke and Libby both saying "I'm proud of you."

The Locke/Libby parallels are very interesting to me. In the end, Hurley was okay because Libby helped him. Charlie was not because Locke turned on him. Both were on the path to self destruction but the human contact made the difference.


I really liked what the doctor said about Hurley eating to punish himself. It explained why such a nice guy would steal food from the group... He blames himself for the plane crash and it's making him self-destructive.


You're right. He has said he thinks the plane crash was his fault because of the numbers curse. Now we know he also blamed himself for the deck accident. At first I thought his taking responsibility for the plane crash was silly. I didn't get it. Now I understand why he feels that way. Good old fun time Hurley really is pretty tortured inside. He's a good guy and he can't stand knowing that he's caused death and destruction. No wonder he's punishing himself.

He punishes himself with food. Charlie punishes himself with drugs. I loved Hurley's reaction when Charlie suggested he be in charge of the food again. Libby again came to his rescue and suggested something else. I hope Libby doesn't hurt him.


I wonder about Dave showing up right then. From Hurley's background, it seems possible that he would conjure Dave up at that point on his own, because he was making progress toward overcoming his problems with food. But, like Michelle67, I'm more inclined to believe that Dave's appearance was due to some outside influence on the island... Another parallel with Charlie and his dreams.


Dave reminded me of what in Judaism is called the yetzer hara, or evil inclination. It's that little devil on your shoulder that urges you to do bad things. Everytime Hurley would sneak food (the crackers, the peanut butter) Dave showed up. It's like Hurley's own actions conjured up Dave when he knew he was doing something wrong. Hurley would start the fire, Dave would fan the flames. Maybe it eased Hurley's conscience to have someone who told you what you were doing was really okay, but in the end it was harmful.

gotta agree with PACEJUNKIE........Dave is Hurley's version of the" little devil" that sits on a person's shoulder, whispers in their ear and urges them to do all the wrong things.....
in Hurley's case - overeat
continue to punish himself for the accident
make no attempt to get better(not listen to his Doctor's advice or do the work needed) and eventaully do the ultimate self punishment -
kill himself.

bawstngrl

Dave reminded me of what in Judaism is called the yetzer hara, or evil inclination. It's that little devil on your shoulder that urges you to do bad things. Everytime Hurley would sneak food (the crackers, the peanut butter) Dave showed up. It's like Hurley's own actions conjured up Dave when he knew he was doing something wrong. Hurley would start the fire, Dave would fan the flames. Maybe it eased Hurley's conscience to have someone who told you what you were doing was really okay, but in the end it was harmful.

You know Pacejunkie that's what I was thinking when I was watching that eppy --that it was like Dave was the devil whispering in his ear to do bad things.Goes a little back to the good/evil thing especially when you consider they played the Jesus thing last night with Henry(the way he tied up with arms out). That's in another thread somewhere. Despite the fact that Libby is very suspicious I think that if there is a good influence on the island it worked through Libby to help Hurley. Perhaps that was the same influence that worked through Charlie to help Aaron by getting him baptized.Just thinking out loud again -- You know how I am.

It isn't quite the same. But Sawyer is also addicted to "having things". Sort of like a pack rat in a way. He just lost his med stash to Jack in a poker game and he turns around to have all the food supply he could need. Like I said not exactly the same __ he didn't willingly give up the meds but a little similiar.

I quit smoking a few years back too, so I feel you, but with you that when you quit, cartons of cigarettes didn't fall from the sky (at least that didn't happen in my case). In pacejunkie's post he's pointing out not only the parallel with them being tempted in their biggest weakness, but their biggest weaknesses literally fell from the sky!
Perhaps not, but then again my life is not a television show. IMO it's allowed strange coincidences occur for the sake tension in any type of story; the best way to keep audiences on the edge is to do a what's-the-worst-that-can-happen right after the tension is relieved.

Similarly it's highly unlikely for cigarettes to fall form the sky, where such an idea isn't too farfetched for a show liked Lost.