First off, given my reputation, let me say that this is not a joke. This is a legitimate thread. Notice the lack of links to silly screen caps. Moving on...

For a while now we have been hearing snippets of dialogue regarding a mysterious 'Him' among the Others. Zeke threatened to tattle on Ethan to 'Him'. Last night Fake Henry nearly wet himself with the thought of what 'He' would do if Henry ratted him out.

It has been speculated that 'He' is Hanso, or Jack's dad, or Sun's dad. Last night the Losties were informed that Zeke was nobody, and definitely not 'Him'.

So the question is who is 'He'?

I have a very good idea just who he is.

Again, this is not a joke.

'He' is....

Fake Henry Gale!

He's pulling a Kaiser Sorse.
He's puling a Mule.

Yes, he's pulling a 'Great and Powerful Oz!'

His name is Henry Gale, Dorthy's uncle from the Wizard of Oz. We assumed that that reference was to tie Henry in to the Balloon. But in reality it is a clue regarding his clandestine identity, ala The Great and Powerful Oz.

The inhabitants of the Emerald City lived in fear of the Wizard, who was later revealed to be a feable old man using deception and theatrics.

The Others, and now the Losties, are in awe or fear of this mysterious 'Him'. Henry has created this mythical personality in order to keep the serfs in line. Another possibility is that the Others know who Henry is, that is they know that Henry is 'Him' and Henry is acting a part for the sake of the Losties, to make them fear 'Him'.

Agree?

Disagree?

Think I should stick to photoshop?

I can see that. They still need to kill him, though.

I like it, I had the same fleeting thought myself last night. But I didn't make the WOZ connection. It does make sense! :)

I thought the same thing when he said it. I'm not certain of it, but I do think it is a strong possibility. Had not thought of your usual's reference. There are some distinct similarities, aren't there.

I like the idea and have thoughts like that myself...the thing that makes me think its not true is that from a story telling perspective, there's little chance we're going to find out who Him is this early in the show....I doubt his character will be around for seasons as it will become bland and I doubt we're really care if he came back later on to reveal himself as Him....I do think that he is a lot more than what we realize, I do think he is somewhat evil but I just don't know how they could reveal Him this early...

Interesting Theory...we'll see how well it hold's up when...

...Jack tries to trade Fake Henry for Walt...

I like this theory and thought about this all night while watching the episode twice (was on at 7:00 in Canada).
I wasn't sure until he wouldn't give his real name... that just sealed it for me. What happens if the Others find out who they have, if it is HIM - they'll for sure come to get him and I don't think he's ready to leave yet. I don't think he's got enough info on them or he's done playing with them...

Consult the Whispers

Interesting Theory...we'll see how well it hold's up when...

...Jack tries to trade Fake Henry for Walt...

Of course, we know that won't happen as Non-Henry adamantly stated They would never do that.

You know, if you want something done right, you have to do it yourself.

I agree that there's a great possibility that you are right but this show has so many twists it's hard to say. I believed that from the first ep where it ended with a self-satisfied expression on his face. It gave me the feeling that, although he was locked in the armoury, he had the Losties EXACTLY where he wanted them. Since then every alone moment they show his expression just reinforces my feelings, especially the way he plays people. He's a better con-man than Sawyer ever was.

I'm fairly convinced that NotHenry was one of the Dr.'s in the maternity ward, and was running with the Zeke/NotZeke and Ethan. They all have expressed a fear of 'him'.

www.thetailsection.com (http://www.thetailsection.com) has a pretty interesting shot of the Dr. in the maternity ward juxtaposed with NotHenry . . .

I like this. And he seemed to get pretty pissed off when Ana Lucia said Zeke was the leader of the others.

I'm fairly convinced that NotHenry was one of the Dr.'s in the maternity ward, and was running with the Zeke/NotZeke and Ethan. They all have expressed a fear of 'him'.

www.thetailsection.com (http://www.thetailsection.com) has a pretty interesting shot of the Dr. in the maternity ward juxtaposed with NotHenry . . .

I find that photo to be inconclusive.

If Faux Henry was "him" you can bet your bottom dollar the Others would have come for him about 3 episodes ago.

Unless he told them not to.

I agree, as Locke said "You and your people have been living on this island for God knows how long, and and you get caught in a net?" "Did you get trapped on purpose?"

I agree
It would pull in the whole OZ reference
"pay no attention to the man behind the curtain!"
but the man behind the curtain was who they were looking for

all SMOKE and mirrors

I am going to respectfully disagree, I think the mystery surrounding Fake Henry is simply to add to the show. His reaction to whether or not Fake Beardy was Him could be just a way for the writers to reiterate to the viewers that we they have not revealed Him to us. I think who Him is will turn out to much more involved and significant. The way all Others who have spoke of Him just makes me feel that it's not kind of guy to allow himself to be captured, held, and possibly killed just to do some recon on the Losties.

I have always really liked this theory, ever since Zeke referred to "him" in Maternity Leave. But I question the risk "Henry" has taken. Sayid, Ana... any of them could have killed him by now.

I think that is a very good theory and would be cool if it turned out to be true.

My only problem with it is...Fake Henry came a couple inches from being killed last night by Sayid. As well as being tortured and shot with a crossbow. All it would take is for one lostie to go over the edge ala Charlie with Ethan and "He" would be dead.
If "He" is that important and powerful I dont see him risking it all to play with the losties heads.

I like the possibility of Him being Henry. If he was concerned about the havoc the Losties were wreaking on things, he may have taken it upon himself to interject, and the rest of his crew including the Zeke, Ethan, might not even know he's there.

I also got the feeling from Henry's reaction that our mysterious "he" is very much like the (don't shoot me folks) alien in the original Stargate movie. Someone who can conjure and perform unexplainable acts in front of his subjects, and as such becomes "god" or "god-like" to them, even though the actions have rational explanations through technology, slight-of-hand or theatrics.. For those who didn't see Stargate the movie, the premise is that the Egyptian Sun God Horus was really a dying alien from an advanced but dying race. He found earth and its impressionable inhabitants and set up shop, manipulating them with his technology into worshipping him as as god, enabling him to live like a parasite on host.

I am not suggesting an alien connection here, but someone has figured out how to display omnipotent behaviors and dole out harsh punishments for disobedience. Maybe it is Henry in the Hatch, and he's pulling a Kaiser.... Good thoughts.

unless he knows that the Losties are indeed "good" people and wouldn't allow that to happen. He knows that Sayid is a bit cah-razy and would kill him but he knows that AnaL, Locke and Jack wouldn't let it happen. Also - remember he made Locke promise to protect him no matter what??
100%
I like the possibility of Him being Henry. If he was concerned about the havoc the Losties were wreaking on things, he may have taken it upon himself to interject, and the rest of his crew including the Zeke, Ethan, might not even know he's there.

I also got the feeling from Henry's reaction that our mysterious "he" is very much like the (don't shoot me folks) alien in the original Stargate movie. Someone who can conjure and perform unexplainable acts in front of his subjects, and as such becomes "god" or "god-like" to them, even though the actions have rational explanations through technology, slight-of-hand or theatrics.. For those who didn't see Stargate the movie, the premise is that the Egyptian Sun God Horus was really a dying alien from an advanced but dying race. He found earth and its impressionable inhabitants and set up shop, manipulating them with his technology into worshipping him as as god, enabling him to live like a parasite on host.

I am not suggesting an alien connection here, but someone has figured out how to display omnipotent behaviors and dole out harsh punishments for disobedience. Maybe it is Henry in the Hatch, and he's pulling a Kaiser.... Good thoughts.

it wasn't Horus it was Ra... yep big ol' geek here! haha! (my mom's favorite movie - made me watch it over and over... )

...not kind of guy to allow himself to be captured, held, and possibly killed...
...any of them could have killed him...
...Henry came a couple inches from being killed last night by Sayid. As well as being tortured and shot with a crossbow...

This assumes he can be killed. I don't mean that he is immortal or anything, but maybe he is the culmination of Dharma's experiments. Perhaps he can withstand torture and pain, and maybe it would take a lot more than a bullet to kill him.

Ethan was super strong, and there was speculation that he survived the gunshots. If he was super strong, maybe its due to some of Dharma's experiments, but Henry is the whole package.

Dharma may be involved in a super soldier program, hence the US Army knife.

I'm just speculating on Henry's willingness to put himself in danger if he really is 'Him'.

I have no evidence or even a theory - just throwing out a random idea - Maybe "him" is Satan?

Also, someone mentioned the glue on beard ... maybe this ties into the theory of creating the appearance of someone else. Why would they need disguises?

I don't know. I'm not as clever as some of you but I really loved this episode and all the new stuff it gave us to think about. LOL.

I am going to respectfully disagree, I think the mystery surrounding Fake Henry is simply to add to the show. His reaction to whether or not Fake Beardy was Him could be just a way for the writers to reiterate to the viewers that we they have not revealed Him to us. I think who Him is will turn out to much more involved and significant. The way all Others who have spoke of Him just makes me feel that it's not kind of guy to allow himself to be captured, held, and possibly killed just to do some recon on the Losties.
I agree with you 100% and personally I don't like the theory proposed .

i think "he" is bill gates doing an experiment to see how folks live without microsoft...lol
naw i dont know.. everytime i feel i got a hold on this show, they throw a curve ball at us... you dont think the season finale is gonna end drastic

again?

I love that idea! The twist at the end of the Usual Suspects is one of my favorite movie moments.

I think the name "Henry Gale" would be a bit too obvious of a hint for him to be an Oz type of figure though.

I think the producers and writers of Lost give nods to their favorite shows and movies all the time. For example, it seems like "Dave" was a definite nod to an episode of Buffy called Normal Again as well as to the movie Fight Club, and again there were more Star Wars references.

You may be right, but I respectfully disagree. I don't know many heads of corporations/companies who would subject themselves to this type of treatment or get their hands dirty. If HE/HIM is so powerful I would think that he would just have to say the word and 1 of his Dharma cronies would jump to attention and do his dirtywork... get captured and manipulate. I think it is too big of a risk for Fake Henry to be HIM.

I have been toying with the idea that Hatch Henry is the "He" Zeke referred to since he first appeared. I think it is still possible that Hatch Henry is a peon working for some even scarier villian we have not met yet, but somehow I think it makes a better story to meet the master villian first as a lying captured peon, and only discover later that he is "great and powerful," kind of a reverse of the Wizard of Oz, actually.

And as for letting hmself get captured, I think that goes with a massive ego. He wants to defeat the losties by manipulation, and is doing a pretty good job of it so far.

He certainly seems to know a lot or is able to pick up very quickly how to push each of the losties' buttons. Speaking of buttons, he seems to know quite a bit about the Hatch button as well.

Henry may not be the top boss of the Others ( they may still link to off-island forces like Mr. Paik, the military, etc. ), but there is a good possibility he is a local leader on the island.

My vision of the Others is that they are a group of some good and some bad, but the bad guys include the leader and the 'military' wing, while the good guys are hapless scientists forced to do research ... something along those lines. So Henry could be the leader himself, or could be part of the 'military' wing, an expert in intelligence work.

I think whoever HE is is right under our noses. I don't think its Henry Gale, that would be too obvious given his name. And we all know that TPTB want to give us a nice surprise. Depending on how long this show runs, it would be anticlimactic for the producers to introduce a new character and then pawn them off as "HIM." It's gotta be a curveball, something we didn't expect.

It's probably the person we least suspect, like Walt, who has "powers." He can seemingly kill birds at will. :biggrin:


Or maybe HE is the personal embodiment of everyone's past ghosts. Jack's dad, the man Sawyer killed by mistake, Dave, Sun's dad as it relates to Sun and Jin, Claire's psychic, the man who shot Ana-Lucia, Walt as he relates to Michael, Locke and his dad, Charlie's brother, Eko's brother, Kate's father, and the list goes on. It is far fetched, but when I think about Dharma, which in eastern religion equates to the path of the righteous in harmony with natural law toward Nirvana, or personal liberation, you gotta think that HE is their one greatest impediment. Hence the liberal usage of flashbacks.

That would make sense condiering the plot was about split personaliies.

Good theory. It's going to be very interesting to see if it pans out.

I tend to agree with your theory. I'll put my reasoning in spoiler font just in case:

If FakeHenry isn't really "HIM" then I find it hard to believe he wouldn't spill the beans about the others. He is afraid of what "HE" will do, but what could "HE" possibly do to FakeHenry that's worse than being show by a bow, beaten to a pulp, kept prisoner in a hatch, tied up, and almost shot in the head?? It doesn't make sense that there is a "HE" out there who could do worse to him.

Interesting idea. I think its fairly early to know for sure but still, good theory

Also, someone mentioned the glue on beard ... maybe this ties into the theory of creating the appearance of someone else. Why would they need disguises?



I'm surprised no one has mentionned this before in any of the message boards I visit or maybe it was mentionned and I didnt see it.

The only reason I could think of for them to wear disguises is the main reason anyone wears a disguise: Not to be recognised!

Which brings us to the bigger question: Who of the losties would recognise them?

I agree with save_walt - I don't think we have enough info to solve this mystery yet (not that this should stop us from speculating) and I don't think it's fakehenry.

I am going to respectfully disagree, I think the mystery surrounding Fake Henry is simply to add to the show. His reaction to whether or not Fake Beardy was Him could be just a way for the writers to reiterate to the viewers that we they have not revealed Him to us. I think who Him is will turn out to much more involved and significant. The way all Others who have spoke of Him just makes me feel that it's not kind of guy to allow himself to be captured, held, and possibly killed just to do some recon on the Losties.

I'm an OTHER who would respectfully disagree. :) I felt the look on NotHenry's face was one of real terror and another hint to viewers that "Him" is not your average CEO. The notion that they would put their mystery man in the very real danger of being killed just doesn't add up. The creators answered a number of questions with this episode, thankfully, and this was one of them - NotHenry is not Him. He's lost like everyone else on the island. He's an Other in the sense that he's part of their group, although I suspect he's an unwitting victim, as I feel many of the Others will turn out to be.

I'm fairly convinced that NotHenry was one of the Dr.'s in the maternity ward, and was running with the Zeke/NotZeke and Ethan. They all have expressed a fear of 'him'.

www.thetailsection.com (http://www.thetailsection.com) has a pretty interesting shot of the Dr. in the maternity ward juxtaposed with NotHenry . . .

I saw the picture in question, or rather the comparision of the two pics and think Faux HG is one of the doctors, etc......

I'm surprised no one has mentionned this before in any of the message boards I visit or maybe it was mentionned and I didnt see it.

The only reason I could think of for them to wear disguises is the main reason anyone wears a disguise: Not to be recognised!

Which brings us to the bigger question: Who of the losties would recognise them?

Actually the purpose of wearing a disguise, is to disguise yourself. Not being recognised is a result of disguising yourself. However another result is hiding your true nature.

The Others appear dirty and unkempt when dealing with the Losties. This implies a feral, savage lifestyle. However when you realise that the dirty ratty clothes and beard were a disguise then you know that what they were hiding from the Losties was not their identities, but their civilised, clean nature.

However this is a tangent and has nothing to do with Henry Gale being 'Him'.

This is a cool theory, but I also don't think that fakeHG is HIM. It would be quite a twist if it was though! I like the theory. fakeHG is probably really important though, I don't think he is just a peon.

I do not believe that Henry is "Him" but just one of the Others. I can see why people might believe he is by reading all of the interesting posts on it. If Henry was "Him" the other would have come to save him awhile ago or Henry would have saved himself. Henry would not have allowed himself to get captured in the first place. There were two very important pieces of information that Henry gave us last night. One, Henry said that "nothing happened" when he did not input the numbers into the computer (I believed letting the timer run out is what signaled for the food drop as well as allowed the black lights to come on so we can read the blast door map). Two, when Locke said only God knows how long you have been on this island and Henry replied that even God could not see the island. I believe this speaks volumes.....

i like the idea that Him is someone weve already seen. I like the idea, also, that HG is him. Who else that weve seen could be him? I guess we can rule out anyone weve had a flashback from. What about Sceve? Or someone from a flashback?

Henry gale is certainly the most interesting candidate for Him. The others are kind of pedestrian.

Can someone tell me where the comparison picture is? I can't seem to find it, its not off the main link that was given, but I could be missing it....
thanks

If there's one big leader to all of this, I don't think he'd risk death by infiltrating a group himself. He's already been near death a few times since he got there, but if he's their leader, he'd be way too important. Why risk losing control of the entire experiment, or whatever it is they're doing, when he could just send in someone else?

Too funny, I even made reference to "Keyser Soze" in my podcast as I had the same feeling but didn't make the connection back to Henry. I can totally see that.

However, I'm not entirely convinced it isn't 'all in Hurley's head' yet. After an initial reaction of assuming this episode completely dispells that theory, I am reminded that this show often gets you going in one direction only to take a hard tack later on.

At some level you have to ask yourself, just how big of a conspiracy can this be? Has everyone on this show been deliberately nudged along in life to ultimately get on this plane just so they can crash it and observe/experiment on them? As much as I love a good conspiracy it seems a bit much. Why would the exact composition of people matter? If they were 'put' on the plane, why the effort to find out who they are?

If there's one big leader to all of this, I don't think he'd risk death by infiltrating a group himself. He's already been near death a few times since he got there, but if he's their leader, he'd be way too important. Why risk losing control of the entire experiment, or whatever it is they're doing, when he could just send in someone else?

Maybe he just gets off on the risk.
Of being there in the middle.
Let's face it. The guys a little off anyway.

Excellent post! I'm totally onboard with this theory. I've a couple reasons why, too, some of which I haven't seen brought up.

1) The Wizard of Oz connection. I just think it's too strong of an allusion to not make the connection. In particular, I'm thinking of the scene when Dorothy, lost in Oz, arrives at the Emerald City and is escorted throughout the kingdom by -- the Wizard. All along, they're looking for the Wizard, and there he is, right in front of their eyes. We've heard talk of him all season -- from Desmond's "Are you him?" to FauxGale's fear of him -- that it wouldn't surprise me that we've been looking at him for the last several episodes.

2) Motive. He is intrigued by these castaways. He might even be responsible for their arrival on the island. We don't know. And if he feels, much like Keyser Soze did (oh, and by the way, the actor, Michael Emerson, even looks like Kevin Spacey), that he is "all powerful," he might be inclined to put himself in what might otherwise be a dangerous situation. Verbal "Soze" Kint did. He could have been killed at almost an instant in that movie. He could have been found out at any moment in that movie. Danger was everywhere.

3) Storytelling. One thing you must remember is that Lost is fiction. What I mean by this is that every moment is planned, choreographed, staged, and so forth. It's a very freeing concept to take into any kind of speculation, because it gives you god-like powers. Let me explain. FauxGale was never in any danger of being killed last night. Sayid's bullet, no matter how badly Sayid wanted to shoot FauxGale, was never going to hit him. Could never hit him. Why? It wasn't on the page. So, arguments, while in reality make total sense (such as, "Why would a leader put himself in such danger?") are out the door. Because the writers -- the "gods" -- know that he will never be in any real danger. But they've worked their magic if you feel like he was just a hairbreadth away from being killed.

Does it make sense? It walks the line. But as long as the writers later deliver the appropriate motive for his actions -- wanting to understand these castaways for himself, fed up with underlings who can't execute his plans, jonesing to kidnap Claire's baby, having to accomplish some task to ensure the island's survival -- all possible. And maybe it was simply to gain firsthand knowledge of the Losties.

4.) The scene that could play out. I can already see the reveal. Sensing that the Losties don't have the wherewithal to actually kill an otherwise "innocent" man, he has already set up a way to be reunited with the Others. The prisoner exchange. He knows the Others have something the Losties want and, presumably, vice versa. They've no intention to give up Walt, but if they capture Kate and Jack, they know the Losties will give up FauxHenry, just an underling and one that will apparently be killed if returned to the Others, for their doctor.

The exchange is made (maybe in the finale? Can we see Kate and Jack kidnapped and among the Others for a couple episodes?). FauxHenry is dragged off into the jungle, screaming, kicking, calling out, "They're going to kill me! You've killed me! You've killed me!"

Deep in the jungle (or in another hatch), the kicking and screaming FauxHenry is brought before Zeke. Zeke orders the other Others out the door and the two of them, FauxHenry and Zeke are alone in the room.

Zeke pulls out a gun.

Cut to outside the room. The other Others are standing there, waiting to be called in. A SHOT is heard. They rush in.

Zeke is dead (or maybe severly injured) on the floor. FauxHenry is trembling, much like he has the last few episodes.

"He -- he shot himself," FHenry says. "He just said it was all his fault, that hewould kill him anyway, and shot himself! Hurry, hurry! Get help!"

The other Others, panicky and not sure what to do, do what FHenry says. The run for help.

When they leave, we watch FHenry, no longer panicky, pulls the gun, hidden under his shirt, from his back waistband. He places it in Zeke's hand.

End season.

The "HG as KS" theory makes a bit of sense, however if it is true I would be highly disappointed as it would be so unoriginal. I think TPTB will tease us with this possibility until they pull the big reveal which will hopefully blow all of our minds.

Excellent post! I'm totally onboard with this theory. I've a couple reasons why, too, some of which I haven't seen brought up.

1) The Wizard of Oz connection. I just think it's too strong of an allusion to not make the connection. In particular, I'm thinking of the scene when Dorothy, lost in Oz, arrives at the Emerald City and is escorted throughout the kingdom by -- the Wizard. All along, they're looking for the Wizard, and there he is, right in front of their eyes. We've heard talk of him all season -- from Desmond's "Are you him?" to FauxGale's fear of him -- that it wouldn't surprise me that we've been looking at him for the last several episodes.

2) Motive. He is intrigued by these castaways. He might even be responsible for their arrival on the island. We don't know. And if he feels, much like Keyser Soze did (oh, and by the way, the actor, Michael Emerson, even looks like Kevin Spacey), that he is "all powerful," he might be inclined to put himself in what might otherwise be a dangerous situation. Verbal "Soze" Kint did. He could have been killed at almost an instant in that movie. He could have been found out at any moment in that movie. Danger was everywhere.

3) Storytelling. One thing you must remember is that Lost is fiction. What I mean by this is that every moment is planned, choreographed, staged, and so forth. It's a very freeing concept to take into any kind of speculation, because it gives you god-like powers. Let me explain. FauxGale was never in any danger of being killed last night. Sayid's bullet, no matter how badly Sayid wanted to shoot FauxGale, was never going to hit him. Could never hit him. Why? It wasn't on the page. So, arguments, while in reality make total sense (such as, "Why would a leader put himself in such danger?") are out the door. Because the writers -- the "gods" -- know that he will never be in any real danger. But they've worked their magic if you feel like he was just a hairbreadth away from being killed.

Does it make sense? It walks the line. But as long as the writers later deliver the appropriate motive for his actions -- wanting to understand these castaways for himself, fed up with underlings who can't execute his plans, jonesing to kidnap Claire's baby, having to accomplish some task to ensure the island's survival -- all possible. And maybe it was simply to gain firsthand knowledge of the Losties.

4.) The scene that could play out. I can already see the reveal. Sensing that the Losties don't have the wherewithal to actually kill an otherwise "innocent" man, he has already set up a way to be reunited with the Others. The prisoner exchange. He knows the Others have something the Losties want and, presumably, vice versa. They've no intention to give up Walt, but if they capture Kate and Jack, they know the Losties will give up FauxHenry, just an underling and one that will apparently be killed if returned to the Others, for their doctor.

The exchange is made (maybe in the finale? Can we see Kate and Jack kidnapped and among the Others for a couple episodes?). FauxHenry is dragged off into the jungle, screaming, kicking, calling out, "They're going to kill me! You've killed me! You've killed me!"

Deep in the jungle (or in another hatch), the kicking and screaming FauxHenry is brought before Zeke. Zeke orders the other Others out the door and the two of them, FauxHenry and Zeke are alone in the room.

Zeke pulls out a gun.

Cut to outside the room. The other Others are standing there, waiting to be called in. A SHOT is heard. They rush in.

Zeke is dead (or maybe severly injured) on the floor. FauxHenry is trembling, much like he has the last few episodes.

"He -- he shot himself," FHenry says. "He just said it was all his fault, that hewould kill him anyway, and shot himself! Hurry, hurry! Get help!"

The other Others, panicky and not sure what to do, do what FHenry says. The run for help.

When they leave, we watch FHenry, no longer panicky, pulls the gun, hidden under his shirt, from his back waistband. He places it in Zeke's hand.

End season.

Have you tried to get hired as a writer yet?

So the question is who is 'He'?
Again, this is not a joke.

'He' is....




Fake Henry Gale!
.


Agree?
Disagree?


Disagree. I just don't see someone that high up getting their hands dirty, much less risking their life.

Slopster53: Thanks for the compliment. I've been trying to get hired as writer for years. :)
And an Eastsider, huh? I'm in Lakewood.

Dolphincrc: I just don't see someone that high up getting their hands dirty, much less risking their life.

That's the thing! It goes against type. We have no idea how involved he is. I suspect, too, much like The Wizard, that "Alvar Hanso" is not real. I think he's a brand image and that the Hanso Foundation is really run by a secret cabal bent on world domination.

Alvar Hanso is as real as Betty Crocker, in my opinion.

Slopster53: Thanks for the compliment. I've been trying to get hired as writer for years. :)
And an Eastsider, huh? I'm in Lakewood.

Dolphincrc:

That's the thing! It goes against type. We have no idea how involved he is. I suspect, too, much like The Wizard, that "Alvar Hanso" is not real. I think he's a brand image and that the Hanso Foundation is really run by a secret cabal bent on world domination.

Alvar Hanso is as real as Betty Crocker, in my opinion.

Yeah it's kinda weird that you and I have never crossed paths on a thread before with our respective number of posts, how come I haven't seen more of you?

No, I totally disagree. Stick to PhotoShop honey. These writers may borrow from the classics like WOZ but they are too creative to do an outright copy of the stories.

Slopster: Dunno. I tend to lurk in spoilers and spoiler theories. Posted WAY more last summer than this season. I'll keep my eye out for ya, though. Should start an Ohio thread in off-topic, just to see how many Buckeyes (or Bobcats, in my case) there are out there.

ImFromThePast....I am all on board with your post...Of course I was waiting for the whole Marshmello man deal..lol...Nice to see some of the old real people on here with legit thoughts again...It is hard keeping up with all of the posts these days...but I have been away too long and am getting crazy so I will just follow along with the oldies but goodies...:-)



Excellent post! I'm totally onboard with this theory. I've a couple reasons why, too, some of which I haven't seen brought up.

1) The Wizard of Oz connection. I just think it's too strong of an allusion to not make the connection. In particular, I'm thinking of the scene when Dorothy, lost in Oz, arrives at the Emerald City and is escorted throughout the kingdom by -- the Wizard. All along, they're looking for the Wizard, and there he is, right in front of their eyes. We've heard talk of him all season -- from Desmond's "Are you him?" to FauxGale's fear of him -- that it wouldn't surprise me that we've been looking at him for the last several episodes.

2) Motive. He is intrigued by these castaways. He might even be responsible for their arrival on the island. We don't know. And if he feels, much like Keyser Soze did (oh, and by the way, the actor, Michael Emerson, even looks like Kevin Spacey), that he is "all powerful," he might be inclined to put himself in what might otherwise be a dangerous situation. Verbal "Soze" Kint did. He could have been killed at almost an instant in that movie. He could have been found out at any moment in that movie. Danger was everywhere.

3) Storytelling. One thing you must remember is that Lost is fiction. What I mean by this is that every moment is planned, choreographed, staged, and so forth. It's a very freeing concept to take into any kind of speculation, because it gives you god-like powers. Let me explain. FauxGale was never in any danger of being killed last night. Sayid's bullet, no matter how badly Sayid wanted to shoot FauxGale, was never going to hit him. Could never hit him. Why? It wasn't on the page. So, arguments, while in reality make total sense (such as, "Why would a leader put himself in such danger?") are out the door. Because the writers -- the "gods" -- know that he will never be in any real danger. But they've worked their magic if you feel like he was just a hairbreadth away from being killed.

Does it make sense? It walks the line. But as long as the writers later deliver the appropriate motive for his actions -- wanting to understand these castaways for himself, fed up with underlings who can't execute his plans, jonesing to kidnap Claire's baby, having to accomplish some task to ensure the island's survival -- all possible. And maybe it was simply to gain firsthand knowledge of the Losties.

4.) The scene that could play out. I can already see the reveal. Sensing that the Losties don't have the wherewithal to actually kill an otherwise "innocent" man, he has already set up a way to be reunited with the Others. The prisoner exchange. He knows the Others have something the Losties want and, presumably, vice versa. They've no intention to give up Walt, but if they capture Kate and Jack, they know the Losties will give up FauxHenry, just an underling and one that will apparently be killed if returned to the Others, for their doctor.

The exchange is made (maybe in the finale? Can we see Kate and Jack kidnapped and among the Others for a couple episodes?). FauxHenry is dragged off into the jungle, screaming, kicking, calling out, "They're going to kill me! You've killed me! You've killed me!"

Deep in the jungle (or in another hatch), the kicking and screaming FauxHenry is brought before Zeke. Zeke orders the other Others out the door and the two of them, FauxHenry and Zeke are alone in the room.

Zeke pulls out a gun.

Cut to outside the room. The other Others are standing there, waiting to be called in. A SHOT is heard. They rush in.

Zeke is dead (or maybe severly injured) on the floor. FauxHenry is trembling, much like he has the last few episodes.

"He -- he shot himself," FHenry says. "He just said it was all his fault, that hewould kill him anyway, and shot himself! Hurry, hurry! Get help!"

The other Others, panicky and not sure what to do, do what FHenry says. The run for help.

When they leave, we watch FHenry, no longer panicky, pulls the gun, hidden under his shirt, from his back waistband. He places it in Zeke's hand.

End season.

Perfectly saiud Totem....I am sure the connection has already been made that Dorothys last name was Gale also....The carnival man was the Wizard....BUT that does not mean that Henry Gale is not the wizard.....


No, I totally disagree. Stick to PhotoShop honey. These writers may borrow from the classics like WOZ but they are too creative to do an outright copy of the stories.

Have you read The Stand from Stephen King??? What about Prey by Michael Criton? Go to the bookworms thread and see how many connections to literary works there are sweetie honey cutie pie :-)

Tomten, that was a really good post, and admittedly, I rarely read ones that are that long. I can see "Henry" being "him." Of course, I can also see Mr. Paik and Anthony Cooper being "him" too. :smile:

ImFromThePast....Of course I was waiting for the whole Marshmello man deal..lol...

Yeah, I think I jumped the shark with all that. My last two screen caps (here (http://www.thefuselage.com/Threaded/showthread.php?t=42935)and here (http://www.thefuselage.com/Threaded/showthread.php?t=40339)) were virtualy ignored, so I am going to retire for now.

Maybe over the summer I'll try again.

i'm in the not "him" camp.. that would be totally lame

hi, not to burst your bubble or anything, but I thought "him" was or is the bearded man. Didnt Ana- Lucia, say that just as henry was soiling himself? just an idea though.

my bubble is safe thank you, but yours is in danger. AL asked Henry if he was talking about the bearded guy, and Henry said, "Him? He's no one!"

So no. The bearded man (Zeke) is not "Him".

Very, VERY, VERY interesting theory.

Henry Gale may not be Keyser Soze. But he may very well be Verbal Kint.

BB,

Vilya

I'm fairly convinced that NotHenry was one of the Dr.'s in the maternity ward, and was running with the Zeke/NotZeke and Ethan. They all have expressed a fear of 'him'.

www.thetailsection.com (http://www.thetailsection.com) has a pretty interesting shot of the Dr. in the maternity ward juxtaposed with NotHenry . . .

I think it was NotHenry as well, not sure if the picture makes it any more clear for me tho. But there was a guy in there that did look like him.

I like the OP's theory about NotHenry being him. It would explain things pretty well.

Does anyone remember NotHenry saying last nite that he was a member of the search party when he found RealHenry Gale?? Even though he lied about how he found the RealHenry, I wonder what they were searching for in the first place? Were we supposed to believe they were searching for RealHenry? Or was it something else?

Everybody here seems to know who Kaiser Sorse is. That makes sense, it was a popular movie.
But I'm suprised no one is commenting on the Mule reference. I find it hard to believe that with all the literary nuts we have here that no one knows about the Mule!

Isn't there an old saying about hiding in plain sight? "HIM" is obviously a little, er, *off* to be on the island voluntarily in the first place so putting himself in a dangerous position to get to know the Losties wouldn't surprise me. Also there is a chance he's the CEO or big cheese/head honcho of this little island experiment. I think Zeke may be the "warden" of the island. One in charge of the Others. But fakeHenry may be the CEO - and if he wasn't actually living on the island full time - he could have snuck in without the Others knowing his was even there...
That and him not telling Locke his real name... too fishy for me.


(edit for spelling.. lol)

First off, given my reputation, let me say that this is not a joke. This is a legitimate thread. Notice the lack of links to silly screen caps. Moving on...

For a while now we have been hearing snippets of dialogue regarding a mysterious 'Him' among the Others. Zeke threatened to tattle on Ethan to 'Him'. Last night Fake Henry nearly wet himself with the thought of what 'He' would do if Henry ratted him out.

It has been speculated that 'He' is Hanso, or Jack's dad, or Sun's dad. Last night the Losties were informed that Zeke was nobody, and definitely not 'Him'.

So the question is who is 'He'?

I have a very good idea just who he is. So good in fact that I am going to put my guess and the reasoning behind it in spoiler font. It's that good.

Don't read this if you don't want to know who 'He', in all likelyhood, really is.

Again, this is not a joke.

'He' is....




Fake Henry Gale!

He's pulling a Kaiser Sorse.
He's puling a Mule.

Yes, he's pulling a 'Great and Powerful Oz!'

His name is Henry Gale, Dorthy's uncle from the Wizard of Oz. We assumed that that reference was to tie Henry in to the Baloon. But in reality it is a clue regarding his clandestine identity, ala The Great and Powerful Oz.

The inhabitants of the Emerald City lived in fear of the Wizard, who was later revealed to be a feable old man using deception and theatrics.

The Others, and now the Losties, are in awe or fear of this mysterious 'Him'. Henry has created this mythical personality in order to keep the serfs in line. Another possibility is that the Others know who Henry is, that is they know that Henry is 'Him' and Henry is acting a part for the sake of the Losties, to make them fear 'Him'.


Agree?

Disagree?

Think I should stick to photoshop?


The Great Classic Twist Theory. Nice one.

But since you already called it first, we can now expect a totally diffrent ending....

Does anyone remember NotHenry saying last nite that he was a member of the search party when he found RealHenry Gale??

The only search party I remember is the one that went out looking for Claire. But that was some time ago. That would tie into your thought that he was a doctor in the maternity ward, if they discovered Henry at that time.

There is only one "Him" and you are right. He is right under everyone's nose.

Omnipotent? What spelled backward = God? Yep, Dog.

He is Vincent and everyone knows it!

If FakeHenry is 'Him', what makes everyone thinks he wanted to be torchered by the 'Losties'? Anyways, when he referred to Zeke and said 'Him, hes nothing!', and said whatever he said about the 'Him' who is in fact not Zeke, what makes everyone think he just isn't referring to himself in the 3rd person? Don't know how I feel about the theory, but I could see it happenining with an ever greater twist.

Someone said something about 'what kind of CEO/leader would put himself in a position like that?'. That instantly made the word sacrifice come to mind. I can think of one person in history who sacrificed everything including himself, for everyone, who actually hated him, but for the one reason for saving them and, because he just simply loved them: Jesus Christ. This then led me to my next thought, as I said to myself i'm reading too much into it, as there were the references to God, how he said something like 'God can't even see this island'. Now, this idea yea is idiotic I know, just telling ya'll how my though process went, but what if Anti-Henry is some sort of 'Savior' for everyone on that island? Maybe the others want him dead? The Losties definitely do, could be the other way around. Perhaps Anti-Henry see's delusionally sees himself as a god-figure. Or maybe he just simply knows a lot more about the Others, as another 'Lostie' himself, and would prefer to protect himself, and maybe Jack's Losties (which would make a great band name, someone steal it -quick) as well. Great episode by the way, and yes, i absolutely agree this spoiler is the best i've heard since season 1, episode 1:

Libby is in fact hotter crazy, and brunette.

Here is another aspect:

Apparently the rank and file of the others/dharma is deathly scared of the head guy, and even Zeke who seems to be a mini-boss is worried about what he will think or will do. What is so scary or respect inducing about fauxhenry? He's a super wimp, how does he inspire service?

If you mean Keyser Söze, it's a definite possibility. The only evidence against this might be the translation of the whispers question what NotHenry was doing.

... What is so scary or respect inducing about fauxhenry? He's a super wimp, how does he inspire service?

That's my point, maybe they don't know that Henry is 'Him' either. Think of the scene in the Usual Suspects when Kobayashi gave them the mission. Verbal was right there with them, apparently in the same boat. They never suspected him because of that.

Maybe its the same way with Henry, the Others are all terrified of this boogie man that they get orders from, but whom they have not met. All the while he's in their midst.
100%
...translation of the whispers question what NotHenry was doing.

What are you talking about?

I agree with much said that henry gale is "him" (I'm still calling him like that because I think it's ridicoulus to put a fake or faux in front of name, anyway), and I believe that I have mentioned this a few weeks ago. henry never has been in danger. so locke's notions about henry's capture pretty much make sense. however, in the end, you cannot say, when henry is lying or not. henry is just so well acted, that I think none of us can say what's gonna turn out with this situation

He really is a brilliant character. As soon as you start to beleve him, something changes your mind.
I don't think I'm on board with the Kaiser theory, but I do dig it a whole lot.

If FakeHenry isn't really "HIM" then I find it hard to believe he wouldn't spill the beans about the others. He is afraid of what "HE" will do, but what could "HE" possibly do to FakeHenry that's worse than being show by a bow, beaten to a pulp, kept prisoner in a hatch, tied up, and almost shot in the head?? It doesn't make sense that there is a "HE" out there who could do worse to him.


Maybe there is worse that can be done to him. Maybe he's undead. Maybe he can
be resurrected and then punished in some way. Maybe the body 'Henry Gale' and
the mind 'Henry Gale' are not one and the same (a form of mind control). I don't
think any of these are likely, but it's possible that for Henry there is a fate worse than
death at the hands of the Losties.

I think whoever HE is is right under our noses.Readin this I just had a Prisoner Moment.

I just recalled seeing the last episode of the Prisoner TV series, years back and how after many weeks of trying to figure out the identity of Number One, the answer was so waaaaay off what anyone had suspected.

How about this for an off the wall idea, the losties don't have an "other" mole in the camp, they have "him" :confused:

Really REALLY great theory!
I hadn't thought about this but it's a GREAT great theory...

i like reading all of the theories on this site, even the rediculous ones. And so far, this one could pan out.... But I just think with how many times I have said, "wow didn't expect that"with this show... that whoever "he" is may not be so obvious for us to figure out. I think, well maybe he is "him" but I don't think we have even seen half the layers that make up this "onion" so to speak. Like maybe he will turn out to be "him" but the finale I am sure will be sweet and I really think however this series is going to end, the show is so unlike anything else, that there will be something even bigger and more crazy that we would never have seen coming. I like the theory but I am skeptical at this point.

How about this, what if "him" is..............Jack?

One thing I feel urged to point out as I read this thread, in particular some of the arguements against "Him" being Henry (And I'm not saying they are wrong and I'm right, just pointing out), there are quite a few Losties that are "delusional" or have a "higher" view of their abilities than what reality shows.

NO ONE EVER SAID ANY OF THE OTHERS WERE SANE OR RATIONAL. Why should we think "HE" is?

On the other hand, his comment to Jack last ep struck me as a huge hint when Henry asked (I might be a little off) basically if it was better to be a prophet or a martyr and Jack answered, it doesn't matter because either way you're dead, or something like that. Also, Henry has said many times already that he was dead either way, etc.

Such comments tell me that if, for some reason, Henry turns out to not be "HIM", Henry was elected to be the martyr for the OTHERS. Now, for those of you who want to use this as evidence that Henry is NOT "HIM" remember, several "cult"-type leaders have been willing to die for their cause and expect their members to do the same. And that doesn't mean that the Others are a cult since samurais have the same code as do other military, government and other agencies.

Also, it could be that Henry has nothing else to lose, Leader or not. As a reference, in Band of Brothers, which is a mini-series following a regiment from D-Day to the end of Hitler, a sargent was giving a scared, fox-holed private this peace of advice for him to overcome his
fear. Basically, it went something like this:

"All you have to do to overcome your fear is to accept that you are already dead then your mind will be free to react because we really are already dead."

On a side note, given the fact that Henry said that God couldn't even see this island, HIM could be the Devil (pure evil) who will never be shown anyway. Speaking of which, pure evil is the idea that came to me when the show ended showing Henry sitting in his cell. HE-nry's definitely sending Jack and Kate to a trap and HE-nry's definitely in control of the Losties.

HE-nry's ending thoughts, "I love it when a plan comes together." (mental manical laughter)


P.S.
Everyone who keeps saying that Henry said that Zeke was No One need to keep in mind that ALL Ana asked was:

THAT MAN, THE ONE WITH THE BEARD, IS HE YOUR LEADER?

This could to refer to anyone, even someone with a REAL beard! No other specifics were given.

AND, if Henry isn't in the KNOW with HIM, who's to say he even knows about fake-bearded Zeke? oR ANYTHING ELSE FAKED.

The only evidence against this might be the translation of the whispers question what NotHenry was doing.
What are you talking about?

Thanks for the support BubbaCoop! imfromthepast, you must come over to the Whispers and Other Hidden Audio Clues thread, linked in my sig line. The last bunch of pages have a lot of talk about Henry. According to the sound engineers who help us decipher the hidden voices, there were people talking about Henry, trying to support him and figure out what he was doing, during the Sayid interrogation scene and other moments during One of Them. Please make sure to read page #1 of the thread before you jump in, but there is really really good stuff to be found there.

Excellent post! I'm totally onboard with this theory. I've a couple reasons why, too, some of which I haven't seen brought up.

1) The Wizard of Oz connection. I just think it's too strong of an allusion to not make the connection. In particular, I'm thinking of the scene when Dorothy, lost in Oz, arrives at the Emerald City and is escorted throughout the kingdom by -- the Wizard. All along, they're looking for the Wizard, and there he is, right in front of their eyes. We've heard talk of him all season -- from Desmond's "Are you him?" to FauxGale's fear of him -- that it wouldn't surprise me that we've been looking at him for the last several episodes.

2) Motive. He is intrigued by these castaways. He might even be responsible for their arrival on the island. We don't know. And if he feels, much like Keyser Soze did (oh, and by the way, the actor, Michael Emerson, even looks like Kevin Spacey), that he is "all powerful," he might be inclined to put himself in what might otherwise be a dangerous situation. Verbal "Soze" Kint did. He could have been killed at almost an instant in that movie. He could have been found out at any moment in that movie. Danger was everywhere.

3) Storytelling. One thing you must remember is that Lost is fiction. What I mean by this is that every moment is planned, choreographed, staged, and so forth. It's a very freeing concept to take into any kind of speculation, because it gives you god-like powers. Let me explain. FauxGale was never in any danger of being killed last night. Sayid's bullet, no matter how badly Sayid wanted to shoot FauxGale, was never going to hit him. Could never hit him. Why? It wasn't on the page. So, arguments, while in reality make total sense (such as, "Why would a leader put himself in such danger?") are out the door. Because the writers -- the "gods" -- know that he will never be in any real danger. But they've worked their magic if you feel like he was just a hairbreadth away from being killed.

Does it make sense? It walks the line. But as long as the writers later deliver the appropriate motive for his actions -- wanting to understand these castaways for himself, fed up with underlings who can't execute his plans, jonesing to kidnap Claire's baby, having to accomplish some task to ensure the island's survival -- all possible. And maybe it was simply to gain firsthand knowledge of the Losties.

4.) The scene that could play out. I can already see the reveal. Sensing that the Losties don't have the wherewithal to actually kill an otherwise "innocent" man, he has already set up a way to be reunited with the Others. The prisoner exchange. He knows the Others have something the Losties want and, presumably, vice versa. They've no intention to give up Walt, but if they capture Kate and Jack, they know the Losties will give up FauxHenry, just an underling and one that will apparently be killed if returned to the Others, for their doctor.

The exchange is made (maybe in the finale? Can we see Kate and Jack kidnapped and among the Others for a couple episodes?). FauxHenry is dragged off into the jungle, screaming, kicking, calling out, "They're going to kill me! You've killed me! You've killed me!"

Deep in the jungle (or in another hatch), the kicking and screaming FauxHenry is brought before Zeke. Zeke orders the other Others out the door and the two of them, FauxHenry and Zeke are alone in the room.

Zeke pulls out a gun.

Cut to outside the room. The other Others are standing there, waiting to be called in. A SHOT is heard. They rush in.

Zeke is dead (or maybe severly injured) on the floor. FauxHenry is trembling, much like he has the last few episodes.

"He -- he shot himself," FHenry says. "He just said it was all his fault, that hewould kill him anyway, and shot himself! Hurry, hurry! Get help!"

The other Others, panicky and not sure what to do, do what FHenry says. The run for help.

When they leave, we watch FHenry, no longer panicky, pulls the gun, hidden under his shirt, from his back waistband. He places it in Zeke's hand.

End season.

I really like this story you have come up with and the ending would be right along with the plots in previous epi's and quite a good season ending.

...always enjoy your creativity imfromthepast ! Good Thread.

Is there any significance to Henry being shot by an arrow?
Would that have any symbolism?
(Don't think this has been used as a weapon of choice before.)

One other point to support your theory is that in Maternity Leave when Eko talks to Henry, he confesses that he killed two of the others and asks Henry to forgive him:

Eko: The first night I spent on this island, I was dragged into the jungle by two men. They never spoke a word to me - nor I to them. I killed these men - smashed in their heads with a stone - felt their blood on my arms. I need you to know how sorry I am for this. I need you to know I am back on the righteous path now and that I regret my actions. I ask you for your forgiveness

Could Eko have gotten some insight into who was their leader when he encountered the black smoke? It always seemed strange to me that he would ask for his forgiveness when he didn't even know who Henry was.

One other point to support your theory is that in Maternity Leave when Eko talks to Henry, he confesses that he killed two of the others and asks Henry to forgive him:

Eko: The first night I spent on this island, I was dragged into the jungle by two men. They never spoke a word to me - nor I to them. I killed these men - smashed in their heads with a stone - felt their blood on my arms. I need you to know how sorry I am for this. I need you to know I am back on the righteous path now and that I regret my actions. I ask you for your forgiveness

Could Eko have gotten some insight into who was their leader when he encountered the black smoke? It always seemed strange to me that he would ask for his forgiveness when he didn't even know who Henry was.

Wow, I completely forgot that! It did seem so strange that Eko was asking Henry for forgiveness for his sins. The layers to this are endless!

he is Bernard.............chew on that for awhile,crazy as you may think I am

A number of people have advanced the theory that NotHenry may be "him" from the moment he showed up. I was one of the first to do it myself.

Cardie

the not-henry being "him" crossed my mind last night as well and i shared it with my hubby. he put doubt in my mind by naming nathan and goodwin. so far, it seems that whoever "he" is, he's been using lackeys and not getting his own hands dirty. but yea, i still like this theory... *grumbles at hubby for making me more lost*

May have been discussed, but do you think the "Him" reffered to by Desmond is the same "Him" that invokes such fear in the Others? If so, Desmond did not seem too afraid to be in the presense of "Him". Did Desmond become part of the Others after he crashed? Did he actually crash, or did he go there on purpose? Or perhaps, he learned of a man referred to as "Him" through stories and does not know how powerful "He" truly is.

But, if this is a possibilty, shouldn't Locke be asking not Henry what one snowman said to the other snowman?

Just thoughts that maybe we don't really know Desmond's role. Maybe he ran back to the Others camp (where he belongs). If he is indeed one of the Others, how significant would it be that we were introduced to his character in Jack's flashback of "real" life off the island.
100%
One other point to support your theory is that in Maternity Leave when Eko talks to Henry, he confesses that he killed two of the others and asks Henry to forgive him:

Eko: The first night I spent on this island, I was dragged into the jungle by two men. They never spoke a word to me - nor I to them. I killed these men - smashed in their heads with a stone - felt their blood on my arms. I need you to know how sorry I am for this. I need you to know I am back on the righteous path now and that I regret my actions. I ask you for your forgiveness

Could Eko have gotten some insight into who was their leader when he encountered the black smoke? It always seemed strange to me that he would ask for his forgiveness when he didn't even know who Henry was.

That's an interesting twist, but I still hold the view that Eko needed to make amends for himself, his own soul. It was similar to a killer apologizing to his victims family and asking for forgiveness, I felt.

Isn't there an old saying about hiding in plain sight? "HIM" is obviously a little, er, *off* to be on the island voluntarily in the first place so putting himself in a dangerous position to get to know the Losties wouldn't surprise me. Also there is a chance he's the CEO or big cheese/head honcho of this little island experiment. I think Zeke may be the "warden" of the island. One in charge of the Others. But fakeHenry may be the CEO - and if he wasn't actually living on the island full time - he could have snuck in without the Others knowing his was even there...
That and him not telling Locke his real name... too fishy for me.


(edit for spelling.. lol)

Is it that we can't spell or that our fingers type slower than our brain works...lol...I think this ties in nicely with the whole theory...Keep your enemies close....NotHenry might feel the survivors are his enemies...

Yeah, otherwise there would be some omniscient other person in every scene... that doesn't make sense.

HA...

Here is another aspect:

Apparently the rank and file of the others/dharma is deathly scared of the head guy, and even Zeke who seems to be a mini-boss is worried about what he will think or will do. What is so scary or respect inducing about fauxhenry? He's a super wimp, how does he inspire service?

That I think is part of the whole theory from ImFromThePast dear...


One other point to support your theory is that in Maternity Leave when Eko talks to Henry, he confesses that he killed two of the others and asks Henry to forgive him:

Eko: The first night I spent on this island, I was dragged into the jungle by two men. They never spoke a word to me - nor I to them. I killed these men - smashed in their heads with a stone - felt their blood on my arms. I need you to know how sorry I am for this. I need you to know I am back on the righteous path now and that I regret my actions. I ask you for your forgiveness

Could Eko have gotten some insight into who was their leader when he encountered the black smoke? It always seemed strange to me that he would ask for his forgiveness when he didn't even know who Henry was.

Wow...awesome catch!!!

That's an interesting twist, but I still hold the view that Eko needed to make amends for himself, his own soul. It was similar to a killer apologizing to his victims family and asking for forgiveness, I felt. I tend to agree with that, but it would be a great twist if it turned out Eko had made that speech to "Him" not just to a stray member of Him's flock.

I don't think fake henry is "him" simply because why would you put yourself at that big of a risk with wild cards like sayid and roussou there. I believe "him" to be either hanzo, the one armed man from the filmstrip, or the research guy from the filmstrip. Either way I think henry is not "him" simply because hiding in plain site doesn't really work in this case, mainly because i think the losties have the others outgunned and getting caught by your enemy may not be the best thing , especially if they figure out you are lying.

"Him" and "He" are you the viewer. All of you. The audience watching the show. That is who "Him" and "He" are. A collective conscience of everyone watching the show.

Interesting but certainly not a new thought.

Ive got the real scoop on who he is

HE is actually Jacks father the one thats supposed to be dead, also HE is Lockes brother

I don't think fake henry is "him" simply because why would you put yourself at that big of a risk with wild cards like sayid and roussou there. I believe "him" to be either hanzo, the one armed man from the filmstrip, or the research guy from the filmstrip. Either way I think henry is not "him" simply because hiding in plain site doesn't really work in this case, mainly because i think the losties have the others outgunned and getting caught by your enemy may not be the best thing , especially if they figure out you are lying.

I dont think that HIM and The Others think that the Losties are of any real threat. Look at the way they dismissed the Hunting Party - Zeke told them to lite 'em up, proved that they were surrounded - basically saying You think you're tough? You can't even tell when you've been followed or surrounded. If HE is in fact Henry then HE doesn't think that HE's in any real danger from the Losties. It's obvious that the Others are sneaky buggers and Henry could probably give the signal to get himself out of there at a moments notice... Didn't anyone catch how he alluded to the question about being caught on purpose? Answering a question with a sarcastic comment isn't really answering it at all...
100%
and also I think if HIM ended up being the guy on the film or even Hanso - I would a little disappointed. More so than anything else... now if Hanso ended up being Jack's dad or something like that - sure, I would be excited but just some random guy we've never met? naw... don't think I'd like that very much at all.

don't think the faux hg is "him"...i don't think that tptb would copy "the usual suspects" so blatantly...i think there is more to come...i am more inclined, right now, to think that him is alvar hanso via his life extension stuff!!!

I dont know if anyone has suggested this or not, but I noticed that Hellen asked Lock's father "are you him" when she caught Locke with his father .Could this be the HIM or HE that everyone is refering to ?

I dont know if anyone has suggested this or not, but I noticed that Hellen asked Lock's father "are you him" when she caught Locke with his father .Could this be the HIM or HE that everyone is refering to ?
Wouldn't it be interesting if Locke's father turns out to be the real Sawyer AND turns out to be the head honcho... or crashed on the island when he took his $500,000 retirement, and conned his way into power

don't think the faux hg is "him"...i don't think that tptb would copy "the usual suspects" so blatantly...!

They certainly copied Fight Club and A Beautiful Mind in Dave, so I doubt that would stop them. :biggrin:

I also think that Jack's father being involved doesn't ring true to his character. I could buy that Anthony Cooper decided that Dharma was the ultimate con and a deserted island a great place to hide from all his enemies. And he'd be sure to have the island speak to and manipulate Locke, as he knows how easy that is to do.

Cardie

Being that they originally predicted 4-5 seasons for Lost, I'd bet that "Him" is someone we have yet to meet. We're only in the second season, they have to save some big story ideas for next season and after.

Is it that we can't spell or that our fingers type slower than our brain works...lol...I think this ties in nicely with the whole theory...Keep your enemies close....NotHenry might feel the survivors are his enemies...


Wow...awesome catch!!!

I tend to agree with that, but it would be a great twist if it turned out Eko had made that speech to "Him" not just to a stray member of Him's flock.

I just got an epiphany!!! Remember the scene where NotHenry was tied at the wrists? The ropes extended to the walls. He looked enough like Jesus on the cross.

Eko confessed to HIM.

This is juxetapossed with NotHenry's revel that God can't see this place.

I can't put this into a final thought but it's interesting.

If unHenry/Verbal Kint/Keyser Soze is Him - or unHim, if you will...why did he bury the body of the real Henry Gale and leave his driver's license on him? Our unHenry isn't that stupid. There is more here than meets the eye. It was done on purpose.

BB,

Vilya

I just got an epiphany!!! Remember the scene where NotHenry was tied at the wrists? The ropes extended to the walls. He looked enough like Jesus on the cross.

Eko confessed to HIM.

This is juxetapossed with NotHenry's revel that God can't see this place.

I can't put this into a final thought but it's interesting.


OK OK OK.....If God can't see this place...MAYBE he sent his SON to see it for HIM!!

Which would confirm the Christ figure!!!!!!!!!!

If you want to get all Catholic, Jesus could talk to his father BUT NotHenry can;t which is why he looks fearful which is why he is on his own....,.


EDIT::: The oldies are back!!!! doing a HAPPY DANCE!!!

I missed ya Herk! Where have you been?>?????

If unHenry/Verbal Kint/Keyser Soze is Him - or unHim, if you will...why did he bury the body of the real Henry Gale and leave his driver's license on him? Our unHenry isn't that stupid. There is more here than meets the eye. It was done on purpose.

BB,

Vilya

The only thing important here is that the dead NEED to be buried. Remember Eko is given props from the Others for pulling the people out of the water in order to bury them. He also buries the dead Others.

the driver's license is nothing

The only thing important here is that the dead NEED to be buried. Remember Eko is given props from the Others for pulling the people out of the water in order to bury them. He also buries the dead Others.

the driver's license is nothing


I was just gonna quote that last post and say the same thing...Catholics are supposed to bury their dead...We were just given permission to cremate ourselves now right? NotHenry...aka HIS SON now....lol...buried Henry like he was supposed to....

I was just gonna quote that last post and say the same thing...Catholics are supposed to bury their dead...We were just given permission to cremate ourselves now right? NotHenry...aka HIS SON now....lol...buried Henry like he was supposed to....


Well, not just Catholics. Jews, Muslims, and Orthodox Christians also don't believe
in cremation. On the other hand, Hindus insist on it.

Well, not just Catholics. Jews, Muslims, and Orthodox Christians also don't believe
in cremation. On the other hand, Hindus insist on it.

They don't believe in it or the doctrines forbid it? I'm going cremation styles myself when I go out!:biggrin: I'm also confused about all this Jesus parrallel business, what good has Henry done for others yet? I mean besides helping Locke, and that's not even for sure. If his mission was to let the button run down to zero then what we thought was him helping Locke, was really just some clever acting.

They don't believe in it or the doctrines forbid it? I'm going cremation styles myself when I go out!:biggrin: I'm also confused about all this Jesus parrallel business, what good has Henry done for others yet? I mean besides helping Locke, and that's not even for sure. If his mission was to let the button run down to zero then what we thought was him helping Locke, was really just some clever acting.

I think I want to be buried under a tree myself...lol...;)

I think Herk was just pointing out the idea that he was placed as Jesus was on the cross...we have spoken so much of HIM...that perhaps HIM is NotHenry.....It is fun to dream...haha;)

NotHenry can't be trusted IMHO when I get down to it...BUT I love the idea of a Jesus figure....

They don't believe in it or the doctrines forbid it?.

Is there a difference?

Well, not just Catholics. Jews, Muslims, and Orthodox Christians also don't believe
in cremation. On the other hand, Hindus insist on it.

I was orginally tying the "bury the dead" thing to the fact that NotHenry is presented as a Christ figure. The Christ figure (stretched out on a cross) is a common literary figure used to imply a sacrifice.

It could be that NotHenry is sacrificed by the Others to our Lostaways who might indeed kill him.

I can't see the connection to the religions that you mentioned.

Remember NotHenry says "I'm done with lying, I'm still a good person"

I'm tying together the definition of "good person" with "bury the dead" and the "Cruxifiction symbol".

why make him out to be a christ figure when he has also lied so much...

This thread just hit 108 replies!!!

Yay! 108.


:o


...aw crap, I just made it 109!

why make him out to be a christ figure when he has also lied so much...

When a person is presented with wounds and with his arms tied outstretched, then he is in the Cruxifiction pose. He need NOT be a goodly "Christ" character. It could be that TPTB use the pose to imply a sacrifice. I did not make the literary term up. It's used often. It's used in Platoon when Defoe is killed and he puts his arms in the outstretched position as he falls.

The Others think they are "good", they collect the "good ones" from the tail section. The pose was used on purpose. As I said, Maybe the Others sacrificed NotHenry for a reason that we are unaware yet.

Although you mention his sin of lies, NotHenry still claims to be "good".

Off-Topic Warning!

Off-Topic Warning!

Depends on your definition of "He" as used in your topic title.

But I got the idea.

When a person is presented with wounds and with his arms tied outstretched, then he is in the Cruxifiction pose. He need NOT be a goodly "Christ" character. It could be that TPTB use the pose to imply a sacrifice. I did not make the literary term up. It's used often. It's used in Platoon when Defoe is killed and he puts his arms in the outstretched position as he falls.

The Others think they are "good", they collect the "good ones" from the tail section. The pose was used on purpose. As I said, Maybe the Others sacrificed NotHenry for a reason that we are unaware yet.

Although you mention his sin of lies, NotHenry still claims to be "good".

Yes, I understand the literary/biblical significance of this pose/positioning, including the idea of the person in the pose being a possible sacrifice. I was just trying to keep things going in an interesting thread. :biggrin: Also, in some way, you could say that Faux Henry Gale has a Christ complex...the Losties are wrongly persecuting him for being something he SAYS that he isn't...for things he supposedly has not done...

Interesting idea. I'd wondered for a moment if Fake Henry was actually the Big Cheese, too. However, I do see one flaw in the idea. Uncle Henry and WOZ were two different people, not the same one in multiple settings. Frank Morgan (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0604656) played WOZ and Charley Grapewin (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0335788/) played Henry Gale.

Glad I came up with the 'sacrifice' idea first....I'll hold to that theory, still do. Nobody will allow themselves to be put through all that for a reason for better good for everyone else, in Anti-Henry's case.

More fuel for the fire. I went poking around on Google, and spotted something interesting. Someone had this same idea, and posted about it on their blog. Several replies had interesting things to say. One reminded us that "Zeke" was a Gale farmhand. Another mentions that if you compare the hatch map to an OZ map (http://www.eskimo.com/~tiktok/faq04.html#5) that you'll see similarities (I couldn't see any). The last one, though, is the most interesting. It stated that on the fictional Dharma Initiative website (no URL given, so I don't know which one they're referring to for certain --although the Hanso Foundation site is what I believe is implied), there is a faint grey area towards the top of the page, and if you highlight it, you get what appears to be gibberish. The person cut-n-pasted the gibberish into a search engine and the results were a page that talks about rare languages, and half-way down the page it lists "The Language of OZ." Very interesting. Either this is a very nifty clue, or the writers are really having fun sending us on wild goose chases. By the by, I pulled up the archive (http://www.bigspaceship.com/archive/hanso/) of the official Hanso/Dharma website (since the real one is temporarily down), and could not find the referenced grey area. Ok, so I'm colorblind, but still, I ran my mouse all over the place, trying to highlight hidden text, and couldn't find it. If anyone can, and can both confirm this clue and post the gibberish text, it'd be appreciated.

Oh, and appologies to the thread starter. In my other reply above, I overlooked the baloon connection. Forgot that OZ came there himself in one. Oops. :) That does add another dimension to the connection.

So Zeke, Ethan and Goodwin are the Cowardly Lion, the Tin Man, and the Scarecrow? :)

Cardie

I know who he is too! Cause he's no one cause the show sucks now or its starting too and everyone is just letting it happen.

I know who he is too! Cause he's no one cause the show sucks now or its starting too and everyone is just letting it happen.

"Letting it happen"? What do you want us to do? Write a letters to ABC and the
show's producers?

Exactly maybe. That could work that's a good idea actually. Sometimes petition works, you know.

Not to be off subject but when exactly has a petition actually worked on a Network?

I don't know hey I seem to remember that wasn't Family Guy canceled or something and they made them bring it back? And even if it hasn't worked before we could make history. Except careful, in this case we're not asking them to bring it back we ask them to restore it to it's former glory. It's important to think its possible otherwise you cna't acomplish anything.

Back on Topic, Henry himself has brought up the prophet and martyr themes so the parallel to Christ is a given in that situation.

Henry does view himself as dead because of the correlations he's drawn for the other Losties. He is a prophet willing to sacrifice his life and be a martyr for his cause, or rather, fear of HIM, who could actually be someone that seriously terrorfies Henry to something worse than death. Of course, the Others have studied the Losties enough to know there was a very little chance of Henry ever being hurt, especially with Jack and Locke around.

So the question for everyone at this point is how can Henry be frightened by HIM if Henry is HIM?...........



I believe there is another solution

And this is mainly based on the two ending scenes that centered on Henry's face in his cell, That smug, detached evilish expression as all his plans come to fruitation...

Henry is a patsy. He has no name other than the person he assumes. Did anyone see the movie "Taking Lives"? It's a good analogy. A puppet under the MASTER'S control...The MASTER is HIM and HE is Henry Gale...

Now think this through, Split-personality disorder in a highly intelligent individual and Henry really doesn't want HIM to return. HIM is a really scary, psychotic with delusions of granduar.
100%
I don't know hey I seem to remember that wasn't Family Guy canceled or something and they made them bring it back? And even if it hasn't worked before we could make history. Except careful, in this case we're not asking them to bring it back we ask them to restore it to it's former glory. It's important to think its possible otherwise you cna't acomplish anything.

The DVD sells brought it back. Bottom line is always $$$$

No I don't think so. Keep up the morale and maybe we'll get somewhere. it's like I say all the time that evil happens when good people do nothing. Hoorah.

Not to be off subject but when exactly has a petition actually worked on a Network?

Uh..."Star Trek," '67-'68 season?

BB,

Vilya
100%
None the less, unHenry took his name from the buried Henry Gale, which must mean that he buried him and left his wallet with him, Christian, Jewish, Hindi, whatever faith! He drew the map. He knew they would find the grave, dig it up, and find the real Henry Gale. It was done on purpose! He didn't just dig up a properly buried grave, find a name on a license, say, "OK, I'll use the name Henry Gale," and rebury him with his license!

BB,

Vilya

Like it...hope he is "him"...and I hope they wack him good

:D

The Star Trek resurrection happened because of massive numbers of separately written letters inundating the NBC offices--one of them was mine. When people talk about petitions, they generally mean some online petition, and I've never heard of one of those saving a show. Generally if a show is in trouble and the production company needs leverage with a network, fan support can be cited, but the numbers have to be verifiable, and petitions can be signed many times by a few people.

In the past decade, most shows have been brought back only because of massive DVD sales. I know of no show where the writers altered the way the show was going because a bunch of fans signed a petition. They prefer to use focus groups in which they select a sample representative of the folks their advertisers want to reeach.

Cardie

Wow...a Wizard of Oz reference! LOST fans are great at catching the little things in the show. Get a life all ready (just kidding)!:biggrin:

Tammy
100%
The Star Trek resurrection happened because of massive numbers of separately written letters inundating the NBC offices--one of them was mine. When people talk about petitions, they generally mean some online petition, and I've never heard of one of those saving a show. Generally if a show is in trouble and the production company needs leverage with a network, fan support can be cited, but the numbers have to be verifiable, and petitions can be signed many times by a few people.

In the past decade, most shows have been brought back only because of massive DVD sales. I know of no show where the writers altered the way the show was going because a bunch of fans signed a petition. They prefer to use focus groups in which they select a sample representative of the folks their advertisers want to reeach.

Cardie

The Serenity movie happened because Firefly DVDs sold very well. I've never seen anything like it. It's a good development, in my opinion. Cancellation doesn't have to mean the end, if the DVDs sell well.

Tammy

No way- I really don't think you're right.

First off, given my reputation, let me say that this is not a joke. This is a legitimate thread. Notice the lack of links to silly screen caps. Moving on...

For a while now we have been hearing snippets of dialogue regarding a mysterious 'Him' among the Others. Zeke threatened to tattle on Ethan to 'Him'. Last night Fake Henry nearly wet himself with the thought of what 'He' would do if Henry ratted him out.

It has been speculated that 'He' is Hanso, or Jack's dad, or Sun's dad. Last night the Losties were informed that Zeke was nobody, and definitely not 'Him'.

So the question is who is 'He'?

I have a very good idea just who he is. So good in fact that I am going to put my guess and the reasoning behind it in spoiler font. It's that good.

Don't read this if you don't want to know who 'He', in all likelyhood, really is.

Again, this is not a joke.

'He' is....




Fake Henry Gale!

He's pulling a Kaiser Sorse.
He's puling a Mule.

Yes, he's pulling a 'Great and Powerful Oz!'

His name is Henry Gale, Dorthy's uncle from the Wizard of Oz. We assumed that that reference was to tie Henry in to the Baloon. But in reality it is a clue regarding his clandestine identity, ala The Great and Powerful Oz.

The inhabitants of the Emerald City lived in fear of the Wizard, who was later revealed to be a feable old man using deception and theatrics.

The Others, and now the Losties, are in awe or fear of this mysterious 'Him'. Henry has created this mythical personality in order to keep the serfs in line. Another possibility is that the Others know who Henry is, that is they know that Henry is 'Him' and Henry is acting a part for the sake of the Losties, to make them fear 'Him'.


Agree?

Disagree?

Think I should stick to photoshop?


Imfromthepast,
I like the Kaiser Souze reference, when I was watching that movie for the first time with my friend I said "Kevin Spacey is Kaiser Souze", I got this look like I was out of my mind. And I was right, I like the line of thinking, I saw that creepy look that "Just Call Me Henry" had on his face and it makes me think you might be right.

Good Thread.

So Zeke, Ethan and Goodwin are the Cowardly Lion, the Tin Man, and the Scarecrow? :)

Cardie

In the preview for this Wednesday's epi, I thought the faux HG looked like he was tin/bronzed...the look was evil and it almost looked like his face was painted with a light, tin-colored glaze...maybe he is the Tinman...and someone else is the Wizard...I don't think that faux HG is the Big Cheese, but I am usually wrong...I just think that there is more to the whole story...

First off, given my reputation, let me say that this is not a joke. This is a legitimate thread. Notice the lack of links to silly screen caps. Moving on...

Agree?

Disagree?

Think I should stick to photoshop?

I had that thought aswell at the end of "Dave" The look in not-Henry's eyes - pure evil, I think hes great!!!!

I'm sorry but I really don't think that the fake Henry Gale is "HIM". It's too damn easy! Think about it like this, the element of surprise and shock would be totally watered down if it was revealed that HG was really "HIM". Most people would've already seen it coming, so right there that takes away the element of surprise and intrigue. One rule when writing a story is to always keep the audience guessing, and just when they think they've got it all figured out, a monkey wrench is thrown in, stirring up everything and leaving you with your jaw agape and eyes wide with disbelief and defeat.

I'm still sticking to the notion that Jack is "HIM". After analyzing a lot of things I've come to this conclusion, and if I'm wrong, so be it. I'm just not going to join the "Fake Henry Gale is HIM" bandwagon when I don't believe in it. Like I said, I could be totally wrong about Jack being "HIM", but if I am right, then LOST is going to get way more interesting because Jack is the least person one would expect to be the one in ultimate control.

Just my two pennies, I mean no disrespect towards anyone nor their opinions. :)

Rain

I agree with you. I posted this on March 7th:

Re: Him?
Henry Gale reminds me of the Kevin Spacey character, Kaiser Soze, in The Usual Suspects, who says:

"The greatest trick the Devil ever pulled was convincing the world that he didn't exist."

http://www.thefuselage.com/Threaded/showthread.php?p=833448#post833448

But, I too, think Jack's father is alive and on the island. Sun's father and Claire's father (Zeke?) are involved with Dharma, too. I would not be surprised if Jack's father is 'him'.

This thread has really taken off!
11 thousand views, whoa!

This thread has really taken off!
11 thousand views, whoa!

When this is finally revealed the "I told you so" flags will be embossed with stay-puff!!

I agree. NotHenry is the man behind the curtain.

I set up a poll thread on this because I was curious about the numbers for for and against since there's a lot of dispute. Go vote now and lest see what happens :)

I set up a poll thread on this because I was curious about the numbers for for and against since there's a lot of dispute. Go vote now and lest see what happens :)

What a great idea!

I agree with you. I posted this on March 7th:

Re: Him?
Henry Gale reminds me of the Kevin Spacey character, Kaiser Soze, in The Usual Suspects, who says:

"The greatest trick the Devil ever pulled was convincing the world that he didn't exist."

http://www.thefuselage.com/Threaded/showthread.php?p=833448#post833448

But, I too, think Jack's father is alive and on the island. Sun's father and Claire's father (Zeke?) are involved with Dharma, too. I would not be surprised if Jack's father is 'him'.

Hey! That would be interesting if Zeke is Claire's father...I hadn't heard that one! He's being awfully horrible to his own daughter and grandson, if this is true!

I don't think the Faux Henry Gale is Him...

I DO think that "The Usual Suspects" is a great movie, tho!
100%
I'm fairly convinced that NotHenry was one of the Dr.'s in the maternity ward, and was running with the Zeke/NotZeke and Ethan. They all have expressed a fear of 'him'.

www.thetailsection.com (http://www.thetailsection.com) has a pretty interesting shot of the Dr. in the maternity ward juxtaposed with NotHenry . . .

I saw these pics and think that Faux HG is one of those doctors...but I personally don't think that he is Him...just a feeling...but I am usually wrong...:biggrin: :biggrin: :biggrin:

Hey! That would be interesting if Zeke is Claire's father...I hadn't heard that one! He's being awfully horrible to his own daughter and grandson, if this is true!

Claire's father abandoned her. Her boyfriend Thomas referred to her daddy abandonment issues in Raised by Another. I think Dharma got Claire pregnant with Thomas' help. She was stunned that she got pregnant while on birth control pills. I think Thomas switched her pills.

The woman who wanted to adopt her baby looks just like the woman in the photo with Desmond and his girlfriend. I think it was all a set-up. I think it was important to Dharma that Claire get pregnant and be brought to the island.

I believe Thomas is involved with Dharma because of the surprise pregancy, and because his art in their loft looks like the art in the swan hatch. When Claire finally sees that mural, she'll be shocked. Can't wait for that!

I don't know when her father abandoned her or if she would recognize him. But Zeke's beard may be a disguise for Claire.

I think Jack's father may have been in the operating room, too (in Maternity Leave). If Jack ever gets taken by the others, he may get some inkling that his father is still alive, but I can't guess how.

I appologise if this has been brought up before, but I think NotHenry is great at getting inside peoples heads because he can read minds or get good impressions of whats going on inside someones head. It looked to me like he moved his head the instant before Sahid's gun went off. This would work with the Mule theory.

(Unless I somehow missed a post) I'm really curious why no one who agrees with this theory has tried to reconcile it with the thrice-mentioned whispers transcripts (go to http://www.thefuselage.com/Threaded/showthread.php?t=38199 ; scroll down to post #2, click on the first three links listed on the post, especially the interrogation scene - voila). The statements made sound pretty contemptuous of Henry's abilities and the speakers are giving him direct orders and reassurances. He doesn't really sound like the omnipotent Him here. If someone can actually do this without grasping at straws, I'll retract my disbelief about this whole Kaiser Soze/Henry Gale thing.

However, I should say that I won't accept as evidence an announcement that the whispers transcripts are unreliable because we can't hear them. I trust these sound experts, and why would the producers put in the show incorrect statements that they don't expect anyone to hear anyway? They could have easily just put in gibberish as the whispers, but they didn't.

These forums are amazing. Ive watched the show since the very beginning, and have only recently (Last month) decided to visit a forum that would truely give some thought provoking ideas as to answer these questions. And now im finally a member and have much to say, so here i go:

Ive read through every single post in this thread, and i have yet to see anyone bring this little detail up. Many people assume that Henry allowed himself to be caught, to infiltrate the losties little family, but i think many people have either forgotten or perhaps overlooked the fact of who was the one who originally found him. It was Rousseau, NOT the losties. I highly doubt that he allowed himself to be caught by Rousseau, expecting to be sent off to the Losties afterwards. She is a dangerous woman, so if he had any idea of what he may have been getting himself into, i dont see why he would allow himself to be caught by her. Also, when she first found him and brought Sayid into the situation, she did not sit well when Sayid wanted to let him out. and when he did get out, he began to run, and perhaps if she hadn’t shot him with an arrow, he could have possibly escaped…

So i guess what im trying to get at here, is that through simple reasoning, i do not believe he intended to be captured, but was walking in the jungle alone, for some other reason. Ofcourse What that other reason may be is a completely other question...

How was that for a first post, heh?

Interestingly if NotHenry is "Him" then going along with the whole Oz theme "The man behind the curtain" who is "Him"s counterpart had one of only two ways to get out of Oz. I wonder who has the "ruby slippers", or what they might be.

No way I work at a big company and i know for a fact, the boss NEVER risks his own neck unless it is of the utmost importance, and Henry is not accomplishing anything except getting beat up by angry torturerers

I don't believe that "He" can be on the island.

NotHenry isn't "Him" or you'd think the whisperers would be a little more concerned about his capture. While I don't believe any one really dies on this island(another thread all together) I still don't think they'd let "him" be held by the losties no matter what it took to free him.

These forums are amazing. Ive watched the show since the very beginning, and have only recently (Last month) decided to visit a forum that would truely give some thought provoking ideas as to answer these questions. And now im finally a member and have much to say, so here i go:

So i guess what im trying to get at here, is that through simple reasoning, i do not believe he intended to be captured, but was walking in the jungle alone, for some other reason. Ofcourse What that other reason may be is a completely other question...

How was that for a first post, heh?

First of all, Great first post. I am glad someone finally brought this up. I have been thinking about this for a while actually. The only issues I have with this theory are these:

I highly doubt that he allowed himself to be caught by Rousseau, expecting to be sent off to the Losties afterwards. She is a dangerous woman, so if he had any idea of what he may have been getting himself into, i dont see why he would allow himself to be caught by her.

I think he knew exactly what he was getting himself into. Rousseau has been on the island for 16 years and has yet to be able to find her daughter, let alone even catch a glimpse of the Others. She has only heard whispers. According to her testimony anyway. Of which I am very skeptical, although she did show some redeeming qualities in Maternity Leave. Anyway, I think the Others know all about Rousseau and are not threated by her, OR Rousseau is in on it with the Others and just playing a role.

Also, when she first found him and brought Sayid into the situation, she did not sit well when Sayid wanted to let him out. and when he did get out, he began to run, and perhaps if she hadn’t shot him with an arrow, he could have possibly escaped…

If she is in with the Others and playing a role, she would want to appear to be against the captive as much as possible, as to not raise suspicion as to any possible connection between the two. Also, if Fenry were really trying to run away, why would he run away from the man that freed him from the net directly toward the woman that captured him and was currently loading a crossbow to shoot him? Unless it was all planned from the get-go. Rousseau says if she wanted to kill him, she could/would have. I believe this. I believe her intention was to give him a wound that would appear fairly severe, but allow him to live and function with minimal loss of function. The arrow went throw the shoulder and upper chest on his right side. I am no biology/anatomy expert, but I don't think there are a whole lot of critical organs in that part of the body.

Well I have rambled on enough. I hope that was all clear and I didn't confuse things.

Hey! That would be interesting if Zeke is Claire's father...I hadn't heard that one! He's being awfully horrible to his own daughter and grandson, if this is true!

I don't think the Faux Henry Gale is Him...

I DO think that "The Usual Suspects" is a great movie, tho!
100%


I saw these pics and think that Faux HG is one of those doctors...but I personally don't think that he is Him...just a feeling...but I am usually wrong...:biggrin: :biggrin: :biggrin:


For some reason my multi quote function is not working :-(
But here is my idea.....

During the sceen when we saw Libby in the hospital, it seemed to me that the point of reference was not Hurleys (as the "eyes" of the person was looking at Hurley), yet it seemed that it was not Libby's point of reference either...(Not her flashback as the camera began at a third point where someone would be sitting NEXT to Libby..looked at Hurley and than looked at Libby)...In my opinion it looked like it was from the point of reference of a 3rd person in the hospital...someone who knew that both Libby and Hurley were at the same place at the same time...someone who might be controling their lives to make it so that all of them would be on the same plane at the same time...Someone who is trying to control fate and in the end make an uptopia....


Edit to make it multi quoted....



Claire's father abandoned her. Her boyfriend Thomas referred to her daddy abandonment issues in Raised by Another. I think Dharma got Claire pregnant with Thomas' help. She was stunned that she got pregnant while on birth control pills. I think Thomas switched her pills.

The woman who wanted to adopt her baby looks just like the woman in the photo with Desmond and his girlfriend. I think it was all a set-up. I think it was important to Dharma that Claire get pregnant and be brought to the island.

I believe Thomas is involved with Dharma because of the surprise pregancy, and because his art in their loft looks like the art in the swan hatch. When Claire finally sees that mural, she'll be shocked. Can't wait for that!

I don't know when her father abandoned her or if she would recognize him. But Zeke's beard may be a disguise for Claire.

I think Jack's father may have been in the operating room, too (in Maternity Leave). If Jack ever gets taken by the others, he may get some inkling that his father is still alive, but I can't guess how.

I do think there are some important players in Dharma and I beleive that someone was trying to make the fate of all these people play into the one plane trip to get to the island where God can't see them....

I was thinking of re watching the flashbacks to see if there were any other flashbakcs that looked like it was from the point of reference of a thrid person...because I really feel that the "Libby flashback" was not Libby's...I beleive that the flashback was to yes..shock us that Libby was in the mental institute BUT I think the camera would have started at her point of reference in looking at Hurley, turn around 180 to look at her face...but it didn't...



edit again....
http://www.thefuselage.com/Threaded/showthread.php?p=898377#post898377

This is the post where Jorge talks about production errors...but he does not address the idea of the thrid person taking the shot and looking around at hurley and Libby

Fenry- another word to add to the lost dictionary. Fake Henry=Fenry

Fenry- another word to add to the lost dictionary. Fake Henry=Fenry

I saw it in another thread and decided to use it. I was getting tired of typing out Faux Henry Gale so often! I think we'll have to go with "Fenry..."; it has a dorky feel to it! :biggrin:

P.S. Speaking of dorky, I saw a funny bumper stinker this am: "Talk nerdy to me!" I thought all of the 'Lage peeps might like that one!

P.S. Speaking of dorky, I saw a funny bumper stinker this am: "Talk nerdy to me!" I thought all of the 'Lage peeps might like that one!

What are you trying to say!!;) ;)

After reading the diary on ABC, I don't think NonHenry is the head guy. In the diary, written by Mustang Sally, Sally mentions that NonHenry is her brother. NonHenry is related to a Lostie!

After reading the diary on ABC, I don't think NonHenry is the head guy. In the diary, written by Mustang Sally, Sally mentions that NonHenry is her brother. NonHenry is related to a Lostie!

When did the name Mustang Sally come up?

I think the diary is adding pages as the day goes on.

When did the name Mustang Sally come up?

I think the diary is adding pages as the day goes on. That was a name given to the diary writer the first season, since then the handwriting has also changed. I don't pay much attenetion to the diary writer.
After reading the diary on ABC, I don't think NonHenry is the head guy. In the diary, written by Mustang Sally, Sally mentions that NonHenry is her brother. NonHenry is related to a Lostie! Now, does diary writer think it is the Real Henry Gale they have in the hatch? Because if it's not, then diary writer would be related to an Other.

That was a name given to the diary writer the first season, since then the handwriting has also changed. I don't pay much attenetion to the diary writer.
Now, does diary writer think it is the Real Henry Gale they have in the hatch? Because if it's not, then diary writer would be related to an Other.

Thanks, I'll add the grain of salt to what's in the diary. Awesome point too. I was trying to match "Fenry" with the losties. I should be matching the dead realHenry to the losties.

I sure after I get my lost fix tomorrow night, I'll have given up on most of this stuff and I'll be onto the new stuff;)

That was a name given to the diary writer the first season, since then the handwriting has also changed. I don't pay much attenetion to the diary writer.
Now, does diary writer think it is the Real Henry Gale they have in the hatch? Because if it's not, then diary writer would be related to an Other.


I am thinking that it is Rose and that the REAL Henry Gale (dead and buried) may
be her brother.

MissNomer says:
The statements made sound pretty contemptuous of Henry's abilities and the speakers are giving him direct orders and reassurances. He doesn't really sound like the omnipotent Him here. If someone can actually do this without grasping at straws, I'll retract my disbelief about this whole Kaiser Soze/Henry Gale thing.

I have poked around a little on the WHISPERS thread (while trying not to freak myself out TOO much), and I do know of the 'conversation' you're referring to. I'm not sure I totally buy that Fenry is Him, though I wouldn't discount it as a possibility yet, but who's to say that if he is Him, the Whisperers are even aware of that? Actually, that was the way I imagined it before I checked out the Whispers for this interaction - even the way Mr Friendly referred to Him kinda made me think He is more of a concept to them, if you will, rather than a real person they interact with.
Whaddya think?

What are you trying to say!!;) ;)

Prior to joining the 'Lage, I wouldn't have considered myself your prototypical nerd. However, the 'Lage has brought out my inner-nerd and I am loving it! Now, if I can stay away from spoilers today in any way, shape or form, I'll be doin' good...:biggrin:

First off, given my reputation, let me say that this is not a joke. This is a legitimate thread. Notice the lack of links to silly screen caps. Moving on...

For a while now we have been hearing snippets of dialogue regarding a mysterious 'Him' among the Others. Zeke threatened to tattle on Ethan to 'Him'. Last night Fake Henry nearly wet himself with the thought of what 'He' would do if Henry ratted him out.

It has been speculated that 'He' is Hanso, or Jack's dad, or Sun's dad. Last night the Losties were informed that Zeke was nobody, and definitely not 'Him'.

So the question is who is 'He'?

I have a very good idea just who he is. So good in fact that I am going to put my guess and the reasoning behind it in spoiler font. It's that good.

Don't read this if you don't want to know who 'He', in all likelyhood, really is.

Again, this is not a joke.

'He' is....




Fake Henry Gale!

He's pulling a Kaiser Sorse.
He's puling a Mule.

Yes, he's pulling a 'Great and Powerful Oz!'

His name is Henry Gale, Dorthy's uncle from the Wizard of Oz. We assumed that that reference was to tie Henry in to the Baloon. But in reality it is a clue regarding his clandestine identity, ala The Great and Powerful Oz.

The inhabitants of the Emerald City lived in fear of the Wizard, who was later revealed to be a feable old man using deception and theatrics.

The Others, and now the Losties, are in awe or fear of this mysterious 'Him'. Henry has created this mythical personality in order to keep the serfs in line. Another possibility is that the Others know who Henry is, that is they know that Henry is 'Him' and Henry is acting a part for the sake of the Losties, to make them fear 'Him'.


Agree?

Disagree?

Think I should stick to photoshop?
Verbal Kint it is.
:clapping: :clapping:

Verbal Kint it is.
:clapping: :clapping:


Thank you. It's good to be right every once in a while.:biggrin:

We now know from the finale that fake Henry is the leader of the Others on site, but I think "He" is Penelope's father. I'm starting to think that the whole island was set up to trap Desmond and keep him from ever getting back to Penny.
Do you think that Sayid will recognize Tom from the "payoff" flashback, once he finds them?

We now know from the finale that fake Henry is the leader of the Others on site, but I think "He" is Penelope's father. I'm starting to think that the whole island was set up to trap Desmond and keep him from ever getting back to Penny.
Do you think that Sayid will recognize Tom from the "payoff" flashback, once he finds them? The island has been here a lot longer than Charles Widmore has been around, although he probably learned of it's existance when he did his around the world sailing.

Tom/Mr. Friendly isn't Kelvin/Joe Inman that sayid got the payoff from.

Kelvin is the one who first got Sayid into torture, right?

FYI: Names sometimes dissappear in my head, who's Joe Inman?

Joe Inman was what Clancy Brown's character was listed as in the press release for "One of Them." I'm presuming that was so as not to spoil the big reveal that he was Kelvin. Kelvin Inman speaks of quitting espionage when he sees the results of people following his orders and talks about being a long time "spook," so despite the difference in first names, he does seem to be Sayid's CIA mentor.

Cardie

Thanks Cardie!:)

Joe Inman was what Clancy Brown's character was listed as in the press release for "One of Them." I'm presuming that was so as not to spoil the big reveal that he was Kelvin. Kelvin Inman speaks of quitting espionage when he sees the results of people following his orders and talks about being a long time "spook," so despite the difference in first names, he does seem to be Sayid's CIA mentor.

Cardie Per Carlton and Damon, Inman was never referred to by name in the episode OOT. (Exactly) They needed to give him a name for the credits and didn't want to give the secret away, so we had Joe Inman in OOT and Kelvin. Totally fair.

This is my most successful thread to date.

''I can see that. They still need to kill him, though.''
why do they need to kill him? he hasnt done anything wrong!! as he keeps reminding us, HES ONE OF THE GOOD GUYS!

''I can see that. They still need to kill him, though.''
why do they need to kill him? he hasnt done anything wrong!! as he keeps reminding us, HES ONE OF THE GOOD GUYS!

Agreed.

Sorry, but I don't agree with you that fake Henry is "Him."

Now, I do agree Henry has more of authority then any of the others. When we saw him in LTDA, he had a lot more power than any of the other others. He seems like he might be more powerful as any of them so I think he's pretty high-ranking with "Him". Maybe he has a high connection with "Him".

Now, this might seem out there, but what if Fenry is tricking the others? I don't have much to back this up, but I believe that The Hanso Foundation is the biggest evil in "Lost". Henry Gale is involved with the Hanso Foundation so therefore he is connected to "Him". Now, the others came on the island one day in well...lets say a plane crash or something along the lines of that. That was when the Dharma Inititve was still an active project of the Hanso Foundation. People were on the island 'studying' such as Henry Gale, Alvar Hanso, and possibly Pappa Windmore and Mr. Paik. Henry Gale tells the "others" all these lies about the island (as Kelvin did with Des.) He keeps telling lies and when 815 crashes, he tells them even more lies about who they are, what they're doing ect.

Again, I don't have evidence to back it up. I'm just throwing it out there.

I think Henry Gale is the "him" Zeke/Tom was talking about apprehensively to Ethan in "Maternity Leave." I don't think he's the final authority behind Dharma or Hanso.

There is a possibility that the Others used to work for Dharma but rebelled and that Henry is their leader and so the highest authority among the Others.

Cardie

There is a possibility that the Others used to work for Dharma but rebelled and that Henry is their leader and so the highest authority among the Others.

Cardie

I had that thought to. But now i'm on Lost withdraw and my theory keeps changing :rolleyes:
Maybe when the others say they are the good guys, they are referring to being compared to The Hanso Foundation. That compared to them they are 'better'

But Henry knows the most, and basically controls the all of the others. That's a sure thing. And somewhere along the way Henry HAD to tell the others lies.

I think "him" is a mole within the losties. A cast member that hasn't gotten any screen time as of yet.

I think "him" is a mole within the losties. A cast member that hasn't gotten any screen time as of yet.

That would be cool if there was a mole within the losties. But that can't happen. Remember Hurley went around with the plane cenus and then asked everyones name. But then again, the 'mole' could've rode oceanic 815. We can already rule out the fact that one of the 'moles' is a character who had a flashback.

Couldn't it be possible that Henry is a mole? He works for the Hanso Foundation/Him secretly and pretends he's one of these 'others' . This connects with the theory that Dharma is fighting of The Hanso Foundation.

Sun's father and Claire's father (Zeke?) are involved with Dharma, too. I would not be surprised if Jack's father is 'him'.

lets not forget Lockes Father, hes rich and powerful no? Faked his own death and was flying somewhere right? maybe he flew and crashed on the island? thats a bit poor even i think, but maybe he was in on it and works for or went to work for Hanso or Dharma?

Locke's Father
Jack's Father
Claire's Father
Sun's Father
Penelope's Father

Lots of rich and powerful men in this equation.. also id like to add..

there is nothing really tying Sun and Jin to Australia or the island yet (i may have overlooked something) noticing Candle/Wickman is Korean looking? and Sun's Father is a big Extorting Fatcat in Korea, maybe Waxman/Candle/Wickman or maybe a bigger character?
100%
and why have we not 'seen' Henry before this?
'Zeke' has always been the..Leader in our eyes before this.
now they've thrown in Miss Klugh/Clue (whatever) as another Leader for the 'others'..

and there seems to be very few 'others' right now, maybe there spread out all over the island, or doing mini-missions, or in a massive underground hatch thing of there own, but other than those reasons i cant think why theres only like 20 of them there?

on topic of the others (yes i know this is kinda going off topic from HIM) but what happened to all of the other kids from the plain? and the other people? and the dude carrying the Teddy Jin and Eko saw?? (and the person carrying that teddybear didnt look anywhere near as young as the kid that had it on the beach!..

...
Locke's Father
Jack's Father
Claire's Father
Sun's Father
Penelope's Father
...

Locke's Father = Well Off Con-Man
Jack's Father = Dead Drunk Ex-Nuerosurgon
Claire's Father = Don't Know Anything About Him
Sun's Father = Mob Guy
Penelope's Father = Rich Philaderer (sp?)

The first three, I would not classify as "Rich and Powerful".

I know where going to see Henry somewhat saying some old wise words that Christian had said to him. Just make some big emotions on Jack. so we can see him cry again. :p

i think "he" is bill gates doing an experiment to see how folks live without microsoft...lol

And the evidence to back that up is the fact that the computer terminal is an Apple! :lol:

I think Henry is HIM. Also, take the old film pics of Gerald DeGroot, shave him, remove the glasses, and give him a hair cut, and who does he look like? ;)

I dont think Fenry Gale is "Him"
I dont think we will know who "Him" is until towards the end of the show

Get ready to find out more soon. Season 3 slowly approaching

Get ready to find out more soon. Season 3 slowly approaching


Did you know past that Ben means son????

Son of God????
Son of the original settler on our freaky island...what ya think?????

Get ready to find out more soon. Season 3 slowly approaching
I don't have anything to contribute to the thread (without possibly spoiling people in other countries that haven't seen certain episodes yet) but "imfromthepast" I had to tell you that I LOVE your icon!!! :lol:

I don't have anything to contribute to the thread (without possibly spoiling people in other countries that haven't seen certain episodes yet) but "imfromthepast" I had to tell you that I LOVE your icon!!! :lol:

Why thank you very much, Lost_In_Louisiana!

You know what? I moved to Georgia 15 years ago. I used to live in Bourg, Louisiana. Right outside of Houma. I guess you could say I'm from down da bayou as well as the past.

Geaux Saints!

I don't have anything to contribute to the thread (without possibly spoiling people in other countries that haven't seen certain episodes yet) but "imfromthepast" I had to tell you that I LOVE your icon!!! :lol:
I love his facial expression in your avatar, imfromthepast! I'm guilty of calling him Fenry, but it sure beats Benry.

Do you still think Fake Henry is "him"? He is the leader of the Others, but is he THE guy? I'm still not sure. But in the season 3 premiere, when Zeke is escorting Kate to breakfast with Fake Henry, Zeke tells Kate "he's waiting." I'm sure we'll find out soon enough.

I love his facial expression in your avatar, imfromthepast! I'm guilty of calling him Fenry, but it sure beats Benry.

Do you still think Fake Henry is "him"? He is the leader of the Others, but is he THE guy? I'm still not sure. But in the season 3 premiere, when Zeke is escorting Kate to breakfast with Fake Henry, Zeke tells Kate "he's waiting." I'm sure we'll find out soon enough.

Yes, I do.

As much as I would like to agree with the Zeke quote, I think the use of the pronoun 'he' when refering to a male other than yourself, does not neccessarily constitute a reference to "Him".

I think the most telling piece of dialogue is from Maternity Leave. Zeke, untill then the de facto leader of the Others, told Ethan,"What the hell happened? You were supposed to make the list and then bring her in. Was I unclear?" We know Henry told Ethan to make a list, but 'Was I unclear?' may refer to bringing Claire in, which is what you would expect if Zeke was a field leader.

Zeke then says, "What am I supposed to tell him? You know what he's going to do when he finds out. Damn it, Ethan." Find out what? That Ethan didn't get the list. The list that Henry told Ethan to get.

Seems pretty clear to me.

I think Henry Gale is the "him" Zeke/Tom was talking about apprehensively to Ethan in "Maternity Leave." I don't think he's the final authority behind Dharma or Hanso.

There is a possibility that the Others used to work for Dharma but rebelled and that Henry is their leader and so the highest authority among the Others.

Cardie

I think Tom and Ben were referring to Ben as Him. I also agree that the Others used to be Dharma but there was a split in the Dharma. I think Ben's group has less money and power than the other Others (Penny's dad).

Maybe Benry is "Him"'s son... I read that Ben means son of.. So who knows!!?!?

In season two Ben said something about god which pretty muh denied his existence in Benrys eyes, so i doubt he is "the son of god". But names are important in Lost. Anyone that bought the book Lost: An Unofficial Guide knows this.

"Ben" means "son" not "son of God".

However, I do remember a scene where he was tied to the walls with his arms outstretched that reminded me of a crucifix scene. I brought that up once and many balked. I still say Benry may feel like a christ figure. Why else did he send himself to infiltrate?

"Ben" means "son" not "son of God".

However, I do remember a scene where he was tied to the walls with his arms outstretched that reminded me of a crucifix scene. I brought that up once and many balked. I still say Benry may feel like a christ figure. Why else did he send himself to infiltrate?

If you want something done right, you have to do it yourself.

Seems all of Ben's minions screwed up and got themselves killed.

I think Ben's been into the Kool-Aid, if you know what I mean.

I think Ben's been into the Kool-Aid, if you know what I mean.

LOL imfromthepast....

The son of stuff was being olayed around with in the thread all the names means something,,,one of my favorites..(as is this one...love when we can come back to a great thread and add stuff!!!..wish the newbies knew to do this instead of making up 100s of other new threads...leave the thread making to us old folk...lol)

BTW...wanted to tell you that you avitar now needs to include Benry...lol (henry..fenry...lol)

...BTW...wanted to tell you that you avitar now needs to include Benry...lol (henry..fenry...lol)

Too true...

If you want something done right, you have to do it yourself.

Seems all of Ben's minions screwed up and got themselves killed.


You're right about Ben's control issues. When he "let" Mike and Walt go, he did mention that he wasn't happy about things that happened during his absence but he would keep the deal.

I still think he sees himself as a christ figure. He did talk about martyrs and prophets with Jack. I need to know why it was Him who went. Was it his decision or someone else's? Probably wait a year or so before that one gets answered.

Just so you all know, I'm going to be updating my Avi in a couple of days. I finally figured out how to make an animated gif. It will start off the same as now, but then it cycles through all my previous avis, and a few new ones I made. If you've been here a while and are aware of what I am famous for, then you should enjoy.

I'm conceited enough to make this announcement as a post, and think that there will be great rejoicing as a result. Don't let me down.

If you don't know what i am famous for, that is because you are a n00b and not a good person. That's why you're not on the list...

answers happen and they get replaced by new questions......

Ben does have ties with "son" and ther whole scene of Fenry (pre ben) holding his arms in a Christ like position only proves that there will be more references to the son of God stuff...well perhaps not son of God since than his name would be Adam...

ETA: past...that I stole your shameless plug and added my successful plug....lol....immitation is the best form of flattery...;-)

...ETA: past...that I stole your shameless plug and added my successful plug....lol....immitation is the best form of flattery...;-)

And ironically, you chose to inform me in my most successful thread ever!

And so I respond, and in so doing I make the 200th post in my most successful thread ever, thus making it that much more successful!

Will the irony ever end!

PS Mommie, speaking of immitation, I noticed you added staypuff to your avi. Nice job, very subtle.

Just so you all know, I'm going to be updating my Avi in a couple of days. I finally figured out how to make an animated gif. It will start off the same as now, but then it cycles through all my previous avis, and a few new ones I made. If you've been here a while and are aware of what I am famous for, then you should enjoy.

Noooo your Avi is my favorite on the fuselage, you can't get rid of it! But I'll take your word for it that I'll enjoy the new one.

I just thought of something the other day. What would've happened if Ben killed Ana-Lucia? He certainly came close to killing her when he attacked her. He had to of known the Losties would retaliate by either killing him or torturing him Sayid-style. If he really is "him", why would he put himself in danger like that? The Others can't afford to lose their leader.

Did you know past that Ben means son????

Son of God????
Son of the original settler on our freaky island...what ya think?????

Son of Hanso? We haven't been given a surname yet, could easily be Hanso/Blake (why was her surname Blake, was it a fake name or did I miss something?). It would explain why he seems to automatically have leadership even though none of the Others really seem to like him.

I think there's a very real possibility 'He' is called Samantha, and lives in Mornington Crescent.

Hey Liplocked, is that rock in your avi a piece of molybdenum?

I just thought of something the other day. What would've happened if Ben killed Ana-Lucia? He certainly came close to killing her when he attacked her. He had to of known the Losties would retaliate by either killing him or torturing him Sayid-style. If he really is "him", why would he put himself in danger like that? The Others can't afford to lose their leader.

I think his attack on A-L was an escape attempt, since he knew that once the possibility of his Henry Gale story being true had been negated by Sayid's "research," he might be living on borrowed time anyway.

I agree that if Ben is meant to indicate that he is the son of someone important that the most likely candidate is Alvar Hanso.

Cardie

And ironically, you chose to inform me in my most successful thread ever!



PS Mommie, speaking of immitation, I noticed you added staypuff to your avi. Nice job, very subtle.

I did??? it must be so subtle I don't see it...but I see Staypuff on your avi....feel free to put it on mine...lol

I did??? it must be so subtle I don't see it...but I see Staypuff on your avi....feel free to put it on mine...lol


I too was a bit confused by the two of you (Minnie and Im). She didn't immitate your stay puff, she immitated your signature thingy. Now you both note which was your most famous thread. :redface: I don't have one.:redface:

Tonight's the night guys and gurls, get the popcorn ready!!

NOTE TO SELF AND IMINTHEPAST:

we need to get herk a popular thread.....not that we define ourselves by that thread...but it is fun to see who thinks we make sense!!!! did I mention I hate thread stealers????

Hey Liplocked, is that rock in your avi a piece of molybdenum? :biggrin: Why yes it is imfromthepast. But I'm due for an avvy change now and am thinking noble gasses...

I too was a bit confused by the two of you (Minnie and Im). She didn't immitate your stay puff, she immitated your signature thingy. Now you both note which was your most famous thread. :redface: I don't have one.:redface:

Tonight's the night guys and gurls, get the popcorn ready!!
I realise that, but if you look really close, Staypuff is in her avi. Really close.

NOTE TO SELF AND IMINTHEPAST:

we need to get herk a popular thread.....
I'm on it...
Here you go Herk. This is your Most Successful Thread Ever (as determined by view count):

Libby is an Other (http://www.thefuselage.com/Threaded/showthread.php?t=47312)

:biggrin: Why yes it is imfromthepast. But I'm due for an avvy change now and am thinking noble gasses...
Xenon (http://www.gc.maricopa.edu/earthsci/imagearchive/Xenon%20sm.jpg) all the way. It's the most noble of the noble gases, IMHO.

Now I see it...he is under the waterfall! of my avi!!!!!!!!

Now I see it...he is under the waterfall! of my avi!!!!!!!!

Bingo!

Son of Hanso? We haven't been given a surname yet, could easily be Hanso/Blake (why was her surname Blake, was it a fake name or did I miss something?). It would explain why he seems to automatically have leadership even though none of the Others really seem to like him.

I retract this theory.
I feel foolish.
Shame on me.

:nosweat: I retract this theory.
I feel foolish.
Shame on me.

we all make mistakes,,,:nosweat:

I retract this theory.
I feel foolish.
Shame on me.

Don't be silly!

Linus is actually an anagram of Hanso. That is, if you replace the H with a U, the A with an L, and the O with an I.

See? You were right after all!

IMFROMTHEPAST!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I love your new avi!!!!!!!
Very Kewl!!!!!

IMFROMTHEPAST!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I love your new avi!!!!!!!
Very Kewl!!!!!

Thank You. Yes, as far as self-congratulatory, egotistical avis go, it's nice.

BTW, the second link in your favorite threads list is damaged. You need to replace the "..." with "showthre" to fix it. Oh, and I am humbled; who am I kidding, I'm never humble; I am honored and flattered that you chose this Thread to include in your list.

But so this thread does not get closed down due to off-topic chatting, let me ask, does Ben strike anyone as a bit of a Cult Leader?

i dont dissagree with henry/ben being him, but "uncle henry" was meerly the prince of whales, not the wizard, which suports my beliefe that there still is someone out there who is the real "wizard". its hanso if ya ask me!

He does seem like a cult leader...there has been talk of his kool aid likeness....and if you look up that town...it almost looks like Othersville...ICK!!!!

i dont dissagree with henry/ben being him, but "uncle henry" was meerly the prince of whales, not the wizard, which suports my beliefe that there still is someone out there who is the real "wizard". its hanso if ya ask me!

In the immortal words of Tim Curry in Clue, Alvar Hanso "is just a red herring!"

The Wizard in the Wizard of OZ was a fictional boogy man used to scare others into submission.

Ben was playing the same game on the Losties with a fictional Him. That whole speech about Him not being a fogiving man was the equivilent of "Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain!!"

I believe Gregg Nations have recently mention Walden Two which is a book by BF Skinner. I was thinking of looking into a Ben connection.

Everything about the Others is straight out of Skinner's whacked out behavioral psychology.

Cardie

Everything about the Others is straight out of Skinner's whacked out behavioral psychology.

Cardie
And since he got a mention in the Swan orientation film, I think it's safe to guess WHY they're so Skinnerian.

Everything about the Others is straight out of Skinner's whacked out behavioral psychology.

Cardie

That's why I thought it was important to look into the book. It's not a psychology book, it's fiction.

Yes, but it's fiction based on his ideas about psychology and how to build a utopian community. It was all the rage among hippie-types when I was in grad school about the same time as the DeGroots.

Cardie

Yes, but it's fiction based on his ideas about psychology and how to build a utopian community. It was all the rage among hippie-types when I was in grad school about the same time as the DeGroots.

Cardie

Interesting time piece reference. Very interesting.:cool:

CONFIRMED: On the latest Podcast, Damon confirmed that the "Him" refered to by Desmond and Kelvin is infact their REPLACEMENTS! Duh!

They shied away from stating explicitly that Ben is Him, but it was implied.

CONFIRMED: On the latest Podcast, Damon confirmed that the "Him" refered to by Desmond and Kelvin is infact their REPLACEMENTS! Duh!

They shied away from stating explicitly that Ben is Him, but it was implied.

Great confirmation but aren't we mostly talking about the Him that Ben was talking about when he was a prisoner?

I wonder if Ben know the snowman joke.

I have always been under the impression that "He" was only refered to by Tom in Maternity Leave, and by Henry when he was a prisoner.
However there are others that seem to think that any time the male pronoun is used without explicit indication of who it is refering to, that the speaker is refering to "Him".
Among these instances the most prominent is when Desmond and Kelvin asked, "Are you him?"
We can now put that to rest. They were asking about their replacements.

There is a new thread which is talking about Locke being HIM...Look under my posts...pretty neat ideas...

If you want something done right, you have to do it yourself.

Seems all of Ben's minions screwed up and got themselves killed.Ben was "He". Now, is he going to answer some other questions?

Ben was never "he" jacob is he, Jacob is the only person that Ben admires/fears.

In this case the "Him" was Ben we know he was the one who asked Ethan to make the list for the people in the Fuselage.

Bearded Man: What the hell happened? You were supposed to make the list and then bring her in. Was I unclear?
Ethan: It's not my fault. They knew I wasn't on the plane. They had a manifest.
Bearded Man: What am I supposed to tell him? You know what he's going to do when he finds out. Damn it, Ethan.

That's the funny thing about pronouns, they have the ability to mean different people in different circumstances. Clearly not every single use of the word "him" or 'he" refers to the same individual, the great and unforgiving "Him". The "He" refered to in this thread's title has since the thread was first started been revealed to be Jacob. I was first inspired to start this thread after viewing the episode Dave. In this episode Ben, then known as Henry, had been revealed as an Other, and had made reference to the leader of the Others. Anna-Lucia voiced the Losties opinion that the guy with the beard who kidnapped Walt (Tom) was the leader of the Others. Ben replied with derision, calling Tom "nothing". He then went on to paint a picture of "Him" as a great and unforgiving man. In this description, Ben was describing "Him" as the leader of the Others.
Since that episode, all that we learned about Ben pointed to him being the Leader of the Others, and therefore the "Him" he refered to in the armory. The likely conclusion was that he was describing himself in an effort to both scare his listeners, and to hide his own identity as the great, and unforgiving "Him". Which was my point in the original post for this thread.
In Season 3, we were introduced to Jacob. He has since been painted to be the Leader of the Others, and we are being lead to the conclusion that Jacob is infact the mysterious "Him" we have been hearing about.

It is my current opinion that, in keeping with the Wizard of Oz analogy in the first post, Ben is the Man Behind the Curtain, and Jacob is the "Great and Powerful Oz". In other words, Ben was talking about a fictional boogy man that he had invented to keep the Others in line in the armory, his Oz, his Kaiser Sorse. When Juliette wanted off the Island, Ben pulled his Jacob Card to keep her there. Mikhail and Tom have both mentioned this "great man" that brought them there.

In closing I think Jacob is "Him", but I think Jacob is a fictional creation of Ben, and through proxy, Ben is both Jacob, and the great, and unforgiving "Him".

ETA: I'm shocked and pleased to see this thread still alive and kicking!

That's the funny thing about pronouns, they have the ability to mean different people in different circumstances. Clearly not every single use of the word "him" or 'he" refers to the same individual, the great and unforgiving "Him". The "He" refered to in this thread's title has since the thread was first started been revealed to be Jacob. I was first inspired to start this thread after viewing the episode Dave. In this episode Ben, then known as Henry, had been revealed as an Other, and had made reference to the leader of the Others. Anna-Lucia voiced the Losties opinion that the guy with the beard who kidnapped Walt (Tom) was the leader of the Others. Ben replied with derision, calling Tom "nothing". He then went on to paint a picture of "Him" as a great and unforgiving man. In this description, Ben was describing "Him" as the leader of the Others.
Since that episode, all that we learned about Ben pointed to him being the Leader of the Others, and therefore the "Him" he refered to in the armory. The likely conclusion was that he was describing himself in an effort to both scare his listeners, and to hide his own identity as the great, and unforgiving "Him". Which was my point in the original post for this thread.
In Season 3, we were introduced to Jacob. He has since been painted to be the Leader of the Others, and we are being lead to the conclusion that Jacob is infact the mysterious "Him" we have been hearing about.

It is my current opinion that, in keeping with the Wizard of Oz analogy in the first post, Ben is the Man Behind the Curtain, and Jacob is the "Great and Powerful Oz". In other words, Ben was talking about a fictional boogy man that he had invented to keep the Others in line in the armory, his Oz, his Kaiser Sorse. When Juliette wanted off the Island, Ben pulled his Jacob Card to keep her there. Mikhail and Tom have both mentioned this "great man" that brought them there.

In closing I think Jacob is "Him", but I think Jacob is a fictional creation of Ben, and through proxy, Ben is both Jacob, and the great, and unforgiving "Him".

ETA: I'm shocked and pleased to see this thread still alive and kicking!

As I said, it seems that this question is about to be answered. From the time Henry showed up and spouted off the information about the balloon the elements of The Usual Suspects seem to be in play. I have always believed that Henry/Ben was the head of the Others. Right or wrong, we may have the answer very soon.

I have to agree - I also believe Ben is in charge!
The character of Jacob has been created by him in order to keep everyone scared, in the same way that an all-seeing God rules over us!

As has been said many times, the title of the next episode alludes to The Wizard of Oz where the Wizard was, in fact, just an ordinary bloke behind a curtain. So Jacob will either be just Ben or someone else even less remarkable!

Having said this, I would not be surprised if the writers had successfully pulled the wool over our eyes yet again!

Wow I sure am glad Im not some guy who's only on Season 2 and thought he could come here for a good read on the events portrayed in Dave...spoilers galore!

Hi.new to posting but I was thinking about this today and there is so many references to Him/He.Inman also was waiting for Him.After watching Expose,I really feel that HE may turn out to be one of the characters we have already come to know,ie,The Cobra.

Hi.new to posting but I was thinking about this today and there is so many references to Him/He.Inman also was waiting for Him.After watching Expose,I really feel that HE may turn out to be one of the characters we have already come to know,ie,The Cobra.

Not all references to "Him" should be construed to be refering to the same individual. After all, "He" and "Him" are popular pronouns! As I see it, there are three "Him"s, the "Him" Tom refered to when he threatened Ethan in Maternity Leave, The "Him" Ben and Mickial refered to, and the "Him" Kelvin, and Desmond both refered to.

The first "Him", must have been Ben, because we know Tom does not talk to Jacob.
The second "Him" must be Jacob, because Ben was appropriately fearful of him.
The third "Him" must refer to the replacements that both Desmond and Kelvin were expecting, since it makes no sense that two Dharma operatives stuck in an underground hatch, pressing a button every 108 minutes, should be expecting a visit from an invisible man who knows what one snowman said to the other snowman.