... however, I have no way to post the map. I took the Oceania map and plotted the plane's course, the French woman's distance, and what we know. It gives a really good idea where to look. If someone could let me know where to e-mail the j-peg maybe they could post it?

The following is the text that explains the map points.



OKay...LA is located at 34'N 118'W (marked at the X at the top right). A straight path from Sydney to LA is marked A. That distance is 13hrs and 25mins per Qantas.

B is the half way mark at 6hr 42min.
C is half way to B at 3hr 25min.
D is half way to C at 1hr 40min.
E is half way to D at 50mins.

The Pilot stated that they were, "6hrs out". Which would be B minus E putting us at F. That's where the radio went out and they turned around. When they turned around they were then flying a path to Fiji which is G.

The Pilot stated, "by the time we hit turbulance we were 1000mi off course." The Arc 2 is 1000mi in radius centered on point F. So they would need to be somewhere along the southern half of ARC 2 or in the triangular area of a2.

3 is an Arc 1000mi out, centered 1000mi toward Fiji.

The French woman stated, "we were 3 days out of Tahiti. This is very vague as we dont know how long they traveled in a day or how fast they were going. So, I used the following to give me a slowest speed, minimal time, distance (5) and a fasted speed, maximum time, distance (4).

min speed = 11.5mi/hr*
min time = 16hrs travel per day = 48hrs
48hrs times 11.5mi = 550mi min/tm

max speed = 17.26mi/hr**
max time = 24hrs travel per day = 72hrs
72hrs times 17.26mi = 1242mi max/tm

* Cruise speed for the Calypso is 10 knots. 10 knots = 11.5mi/hr. What better french science vessel is there to look at than the Calypso?
** Due to environmental concerns, in many areas science vessels are restricted to 15 knots. 15 knots = 17.26mi/hr

So, the french science vessel had to crash somewhere between the arcs 4 and 5. The area whithin those arcs is a1.

The plane has to have crashed 1000mi out (2) and within the area where the ship could have crashed. That puts them somewhere along the arcs a and b or within the area of a1, depending on the flight path (they could have curved off).

IF... the pilot was a complete duffus they would have realized they were way far south without hitting Figi. That would put them somewhere inside the area of a2.


Even if I'm off by, say, a bunch; the search areas here are 90% sure to cover 80% of the anomalies..... okay..... that's crap I made up....but I feel this map is very close.

May the ripping commence...

Well, hard to rip when I have no idea what area you are referring to... :lol2:

But I can tell you that the flight path from Sydney to L.A. is not perfectly straight, since all flights must stop in Hawaii to refuel. The stopover also adds to the flight time.

So around which island chain do you think they crashed?

Around the Cook Islands or the Line Islands in the Kiribati region of Oceania.

I have no way to post the dang map.........(sulk)..........

no sulking allowed ;) there's got to be a way, in what format do you have it?

Hey - I got permission from another poster to give you this email addy:

omegaman66@cox.net

He can post your map for you ~ ;D

Here is a link to his map!

http://www.TheJump.Net/multimedia/crash-site.htm

He might revise it since the track he has doesn't go through Hawaii which it should.

The Great Circle Mapper (http://gc.kls2.com/cgi-bin/gc?PATH=syd-lax%2Cppt-suv%0D%0A&RANGE=3000nm%40syd%2C1000nm%40suv%2C+1000nm%40cis% 2C+1000nm%40ppt%0D%0A&PATH-COLOR=red&PATH-UNITS=nm&SPEED-GROUND=&SPEED-UNITS=kts&RANGE-STYLE=best&RANGE-COLOR=navy&MAP-STYLE=) is actually a better way to see it, because it adjusts for curvature and you can swap in values easily. Repeating myself from another board:

"Big circle is roughly 6 hours flight time from Sydney, small lower left circle is 1000 nautical mile radius of Fiji, small lower left circle is 1000 nautical mile radius of Tahiti, small upper circle is about a thousand mile radius of the point where they would have been six hours into the flight (not exactly, because there wasn't an airport exactly there.)

If they really went a thousand miles back, they should have been practically at Fiji. And to get to Fiji in three days, Danielle's ship would have to been going 25 knots, which is way more than your usual research ship, which tends to go 10-15 knots. It's possible that Danielle is lying and it was a military ship, which would make 25 knots possible. However you still have to wonder how the hell they could have crashed without being seen, because that's a busy area of the South Pacific. They'd pretty much have to be in a different world.

If you assume a much more reasonable 1000 nautical miles, and that the plane's instruments went wonky with the radio, then there's an overlap in a fairly empty area of ocean. Which would still require some sort of bizarre psuedo science or serious divergence in history to get a big island there."

The flight path of the planes isn't a straight line between Sydney and Hawaii. It swoops upward probably because of prevailing winds or something. So the actual flight path would actually be a bit further East than a straight line between the two.

Depends where 6 hours into the flight would be as to whether they could overlap with the french womans boat. But I figured 20 mph would do it according to my estimation of where the flight would have been assuming 16 hours of air time in the plane.

This is fast for most boats indicating a military boat. At first that seemed strange, right. But it now fits with my theory (see my post in world domination thread)! Sayid asked her why they had guns on a scientific research trip. She didn't answer. Hints to military ship. My wild speculation about ALEX (notice all caps) fits in with this fast ship being military very well.

Omega: Thanks for helping out KG and posting the map. I’ve been spending waaaay too much time trying to figure this out also. Nice to see I’m not alone.

What I did wasn’t as mathematical as KG did. My brain just doesn’t function that way. Kudos again to you for using those brain cells. I’m impressed.

Not to complicate things, just a thought I had while I was supposed to be sleeping :-\…I have a dopey question. Wouldn’t the jet-stream come into play here? Am I wrong or wouldn’t turning the plane around and flying back to Fiji add time to the flight? I seem to recall the last time I went to Las Vegas from NY it took longer to get there than the return trip. Please don’t get me wrong, I’m not trying to put the kibosh on anyone’s theory. I’ll be the first to admit I over analyze. It is a Virgo trait. :blushing:

I came up with the same general area KG did. Ironically using the same map. The circle marked C is darn close to where I thought the island might be. If you look at the map, you can see the Louisville Trench. I came up with the island being just north of the bottom arc of that circle. It was a thrill for me to find someone else came close to my approximation. :jump1:

Like Tevella I assume the plane’s instruments went wonky when the radio went out. Fits with the compass not working properly on the island. Something was interfering with the electronics to cause such failures. Running with that, we could also figure into the mix the pilot’s were flying blind or still using the compass on the plane, not realizing the readings were not correct. So the heading they thought they were going was wrong. Does anyone remember the conversation between Sayid and Locke when they were discussing the compass? There might be something to work on there.

I’m not sure on the terminology or if this is right, but take this for instance, only as an example. Say when they turned around and were headed NE at 49.3º. If the compass they were using was off by 15º but they took for granted they were actually on course. That would mean they were really heading 34.3º. I’m going to quit now because I don’t know what I’m talking about. Just another half-a$$ed theory emerging from my cluttered mind. :wacko: Maybe someone else can run with it in a more intelligent manner.

Although the Military ship idea could be valid, I don't think it adds up too good. (great grammer...)

I mean... * if it's a military ship then why are Danielle's two rifles for hunting? *The one she carried is definately something like a Winchester with a big honkin' scope on it for hunting. *Something one could get at Walmart.

Naw... *I think if the boat was military she would be sporting an AK47, M16, HK mp5's, or an FN/FAL in 308. *But not a midwest sling, tasco scoped, 30/06 deer rifle. *

I think a science vessel would have a couple rifles on hand, just in case. *I don't mean to beat up the idea, it just doesn't figure for me.

Either way, 3days out of Tahiti whether fast or slow puts the boat in the area of the Kiribati Islands.

OK, just a few comments. *10 knotts is ridiculously slow. *You can run faster than that for a short distance. *25 knotts might be a little high, but not much. *Your average speedboat, used for water-skiing, tops out about 45 knotts. *The big ocean liners move in the 25 to 35 knott range. *Some of the older ones were even faster. *It is true that all flights from Australia to the US used to have to refuel in Hawaii, but that hasn't been true for years (maybe decades). *Boeing's 747 and up (maybe not the 767) can make the trip in one leg. *I want to thank omegaman for supplying the map (which correctly shouldn't go through Hawaii, but directly to LA). *I've been trying to get something like this for some time & this is better than anything I've done. *It affirms my belief that they are somewhere near the Wallis & Futuna Islands (a protectorate of France), possibly the island pair halfway between there and Fiji. *Good map work!

PS. Ocean liners are generally much faster than military ships, because they weigh less in relation to theirs size. This is because most military ships have extra armor plating around their midsections as a deterent to torpodoes. During WWII, they used the big British & French Ocean liners as troop transports. Unlike the fully-laden supply and munitions ships, the ocean liners were so fast they didn't have to follow zig-zag courses to try to avoid/fool enemy submarines, they could outrun any military ship.

I could obviously be wrong but the Kiribati island would mean that the plane was flying Easterly instead of Southerly. *The Island of Fiji is South West from where they turned around according to the map that kgmaus made and the south of where I think they would have been while flying too the layover in Hawaii. *The compass that Sayid had that was off would have thrown their course off from Fiji if their planes compass was being used due to gps not working. *If my memory serves me this would have thrown them off course even more to the west than where they wanted to go. *They would have been flying Southwest. Not towards fiji but west of fiji!

Here's a question I've thought of...maybe because I'm not a detail person and geography tends to bore me a little, BUT....do the writers even know specifically where the survivors are? Did they want to choose a specific island, or more vaguely 'somewhere in the south pacific'? I mean does it matter to the story line? Maybe it does, I'm just asking.

The answer to your second two questions is "we don't know" The writer's have a certain island in mind, but we don't know if its a real place or a place in legend. If it is a place in legend, then it would affect the story line. I guess it could if it was a real place, too, but there's been nothing obvious to make a determination so far.

OK, just a few comments. 10 knotts is ridiculously slow. You can run faster than that for a short distance. 25 knotts might be a little high, but not much. Your average speedboat, used for water-skiing, tops out about 45 knotts. The big ocean liners move in the 25 to 35 knott range. Some of the older ones were even faster.


We aren't talking speedboats; we are talking scientific research vessels, which are generally based off of freighters and rarely the most recent model. There are a few speedy little ones, but big ocean going research vessels are pretty much exclusively in the 10-20 knot range. Examples: the oceangoing NOAA research vessel Atlantis. Fairly recent (1996), purpose built. Still only gets 12 knots. Their little Tioga, the newest, gets 20 knots, but it's for shallow water work.

Most big boats cruise at about 12 to 15 miles per hour some slower. Military vessels can reach speeds of around 25-35 miles per hour typically during world war II and Korea time periods. And ships don't cruise around at top speed either so max figure would need to be scaled back a bit.

Come on, there are fishing vessels, about the same size as a research ship, that routinely do 30 knotts going out (coming back they're slower because they're loaded down). My only point was that 25 knotts isn't an abnormal speed for a ship that's not loaded to the max in clear seas (they call it Pacific because it's calmer than the Atlantic or Indian oceans). Those military vessels that went 25-25 knotts did have big engines to push them, they had to since they all had at least 6 inch thick armor plating, in addition to their regular hull plates, to steel them against torpedo attack. So these ships were extremely heavy relative to their size and they could still cruise at that speed. Go on a cruise or go on a fishing trip in the gulf, or Atlantic or Pacific coasts, and ask how fast they go. If you suggested 12 knotts max they'd say "Why, we'd never get anywhere!".

I love all the homework everyone is doing and glad that the map of Oceania came in handy.

"We hit turbulence." Now how much further did the turbulence take them off course?

I like the research and info going on, too. Here's the script of what Danielle said:

DANIELLE ROUSSEAU: We were part of a science team.

SAYID: A science team armed with rifles. Was Robert on the team?

(As he asks her questions, Sayid opens the music box.)

DANIELLE ROUSSEAU: Yes.

SAYID: And Alex -- was he, too?

DANIELLE ROUSSEAU: Our vessel was three days out of Tahiti when our instruments
malfunctioned. It was night. The storm ... the sounds ... the ship slammed
into rocks, ran aground, the hull breached beyond repair. So ... we made camp.
Dug out this temporary shelter. Temporary. Nearly two months we survived here.
Two months before --

Around the Cook Islands or the Line Islands in the Kiribati region of Oceania.

I have no way to post the dang map.........(sulk)..........


Hmmm...maybe if they are in Oceania, then OCEANIC airlines doesnt really exist and they all got on a plane STRAIGHT to nowhere. Think about it..who actually bought a plane ticket?
Michael was given his by Bryan
Claire given hers by the psychic
Locke given his by the walkabout tours
Charlie had a record deal and I bet they paid for him to fly out there (ticket given to him)
Kate didnt buy a ticket, she was "given" one
From the looks of the promo pics, Sawyer was given one too

Hey I think I am on to something here!!!!!

Around the Cook Islands or the Line Islands in the Kiribati region of Oceania.

I have no way to post the dang map.........(sulk)..........

Sorry, Diablo, but the travel agent provided a ticket from Melbourne back to Sydney "on our dime." In Walkabout, he said to Helen, "I've bought 2 tickets." I'll bet the return flight was part of it.

Hmmm...maybe if they are in Oceania, then OCEANIC airlines doesnt really exist and they all got on a plane STRAIGHT to nowhere.* Think about it..who actually bought a plane ticket?
Michael was given his by Bryan
Claire given hers by the psychic
Locke given his by the walkabout tours
Charlie had a record deal and I bet they paid for him to fly out there (ticket given to him)
Kate didnt buy a ticket, she was "given" one
From the looks of the promo pics, Sawyer was given one too

Hey I think I am on to something here!!!!!


I like this. And you might be onto something.

What about Jack though?

And Sun and Jin -- possible their ticket was purchased by Sun's father...

Interested to see how this develops...

Just a couple of comments.

There's no evidence that anything went wrong with the instruments in the plane. All we know for sure is that, "by the time we hit turbulance, we were 1000 miles off course. I think compasses should be assumed to work unless they are on the island.

As far as the boat's speed goes... The Calypso, probably the most famous French research vessel, it's cruise speed was 10 knots. Granted newer versions of the same size kinda ship might go as fast as 15 knots. Remember too that a Knot is 6076ft and a mile is 5280ft. You go farther per hour. In addition, you have to consider travel time. Danielle didn't state how long in a day they would have to travel to be at Tahiti in 3 days or be away from Tahiti in 3 days.

Lastly, I really don't expect to find the "actual" island they would have crashed on, that wasn't my intent when making the map. But I'd like to have a good idea where to look. If nothing more than to explain why the stars are goofy in the night sky. The map collaberates with the stars. They would need to be between 15 and 25 degrees south to see the big dipper so close to the horizon like it is in Special.

I like Diablo's idea about the tickets. Although Omega has a really good point about Locke's tickets, which puts the kabash on it. However, the tickets going back that Locke had ahead of time would be for a date after the Walkabout. How long does a Walkabout last and if Locke didn't go, which we know he didn't, what did he do in Sydney during that time or did he turn in those tickets and get ones from someone that left for LA earlier.

Food for thought.

Could they be 15 to 25 degrees north & still see the Big Dipper low in the sky at certain times of the year? I really want them to show the Southern Cross in the sky, even if it is spliced in. I've never seen it before.

I've just installed Starry Night on my machine... this will allow me to view the night sky from anywhere. Interesting outcome. Somewhere there was a link to a screen cap of the stars in Special.

Anyone know where that link is?

I don't want to post Ive I've found yet till I can compare with the screen cap.

Very interesting though.

I've just installed Starry Night on my machine...* *this will allow me to view the night sky from anywhere.* Interesting outcome.* Somewhere there was a link to a screen cap of the stars in Special.*

Anyone know where that link is?

I don't want to post Ive I've found yet till I can compare with the screen cap.

Very interesting though.


http://www.lost-forum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=1464

here it is.

I really think using the stars to figure out where they are is probably going a bit overboard...

I mean, they are in Hawaii (we KNOW this :lol2: ) and have to flim multiple takes, then edit, then put it all together for the show. They TRY and cut out anything extraneous that doesn't fit in the scene but they can't possibly edit out every single thing that would be out of place - especially something like the stars in the sky. Fury said there are NO unintentional "props" but I wouldn't consider the stars to be "props" ;D

i still feel the stars are important.

I agree with...

...and have to flim multiple takes, then edit, then put it all together for the show. They TRY and cut out anything extraneous that doesn't fit in the scene but they can't possibly edit out every single thing that would be out of place - especially something like the stars in the sky.

The thing is... the cameras they use for principle photography just aren't sensitive enough to capture stars like they were in Special.
They were enhanced and put in on porpose. No matter how hard I tried to re-create the way they were configured, I can't.

Just like Fury says, no props are unintentional... that would surely imply that all of the scenes are there for a reason, too.

While this is interesting and all...don't you think that since it's a make-believe show that the place might be made up by the script writers??? I mean, yeah, it's interesting to find out...but this is a lot of effort to use on something that the writers might not have even figured out. I might be wrong, but I think that the writers probably weren't expecting those who watch the show to figure out exactly where they are. Also, they might've been WAY off course(wasn't this somewhere in the script? I'm pretty sure it was), so you wouldn't even be able to figure it out . This is interesting, but there's other stuff that is more important, I think. :-\

I agree. Especially with ....
This is interesting, but there's other stuff that is more important, I think. :-\


BTW...How were the stars different in Special? Geesh. It's all I can do to keep up with the dialog, how things are being said, the expressions and body language. I have never even noticed stars at all in any episode!

While this is interesting and all...don't you think that since it's a make-believe show that the place might be made up by the script writers???


Blasphemy! Are you implying that the island isn't real? It must be real, they have it all mapped out. :lol2:

Sorry in advance if someone else posted the following on this thread, but too much to read through the entire thread (at least at this late hour and mental facility at this point for me) :)

Re: the pilot's statement that they were 1,000 miles off course when the turbulence occurred; remember that he stated they turned back towards Fiji, so follow me on this:

1) they were 6 hours out and travelling at 500-600 MPH, they would have been approximately 3,000-3,600 miles from Sydney
2) at the 6-hour mark they turned back toward Fiji (REMINDER: they travel approx. 500-600 miles every hour)
3) 1,000 miles off course does not mean that they travelled back towards Fiji 1,000 miles; had they not turned the plane around, they would have proceeded forward (towards LA) another 500 miles, but they turned around and travelled back 500 miles = a total of 1,000 miles off course (of where they should have been had they proceeded WNW on their original destination route).

This may turn out to be a minor detail (500 miles) but, maybe not. Just trying to keep things accurate. :)

Wow. Do planes really go that fast?! No wonder people die when they crash! :lol2:

3) 1,000 miles off course does not mean that they travelled back towards Fiji 1,000 miles; had they not turned the plane around, they would have proceeded forward (towards LA) another 500 miles, but they turned around and travelled back 500 miles = a total of 1,000 miles off course (of where they should have been had they proceeded WNW on their original destination route).


Oh, good point. I'll have to check my calculations against that.

Wow. Do planes really go that fast?! No wonder people die when they crash! :lol2:


LOL! That's actually how fast they go at cruising altitude (usually around 35,000 ft). They travel a lot more slowly during landing and take-off. But if a plane suffered a catastrophic malfunction while cruising at high altitude/high speed, the passengers would not only die, but would probably come down in pieces...not all of which would land in the same spot!

Templeton

Re: the pilot's statement that they were 1,000 miles off course when the turbulence occurred; remember that he stated they turned back towards Fiji, so follow me on this:*

3)* 1,000 miles off course does not mean that they travelled back towards Fiji 1,000 miles; had they not turned the plane around, they would have proceeded forward (towards LA) another 500 miles, but they turned around and travelled back 500 miles = a total of 1,000 miles off course (of where they should have been had they proceeded WNW on their original destination route).


Hmmm, the way I figure it is this:

I assumed (uh oh! lol) that the pilot meant they were 1000 miles from where any rescue parties would be searching. That area would be the point at which the tower lost contact with the plane. I mean, first place you're going to look is the last place you heard from them, right? That area would be the point when the instruments went wonky. The pilot turned and was trying to land in Fiji soooo, he was 1000 miles from the point he lost contact with the mainland.

It's just like the advice you're given when you go on a hike: If you get lost, STOP, don't keep walking. Rescue will start looking for you in the last place you were known to be. So, in that case, rescuers would not be looking for the plane 500 miles further along their flight path because for all they know, the plane dropped out of the sky at the first sign of lost radio connection.

So I think they truly are 1000 miles from the last place the tower knew them to be - not 1000 miles from where they should be if they had kept going straight.

Pilot: Six hours in my radio went out. No one could see us. We turned back to land in Fiji. By the time we hit turbulence we were a thousand miles off course. They're looking for us in the wrong place.

[Side note: The pilot gives two reasons for diverting the plane. I think the transponder (used to amplify radar signals to make the plane more visible to air traffic controllers) also failed.]

The pilot says they were "a thousand miles off course." Nothing about search techniques, or where they were last seen. This means they are a thousand miles from where they would have been if they had followed their flight plan.

I posted the following on lost-forum.com but to be honest, it was greeted with big yawns.

Remember Charlie writing the word "Fate" on his fingers soon after the plane crash? And then after he had been on the island for a while, he changed it to "Late." I definitely think that's a big clue.

At 18.806°S 174.65°W, in the Kingdom of Tonga, lies Late Island, a small, deserted, isolated island 404km east of Fiji. Of the 176 islands that make up the Kingdom of Tonga, Late Island is the only one occupied by the "invasive species" wild pigs (boars - they're not indigenous to this area).

Image of Late Island
www.volcano.si.edu/world/volcano.cfm?vnum=0403-09=

Late Island (Source http://islands.unep.ch/IKY.htm)
Lat: 18.85º S Long : 174.60º W
Area: 17.4 sq. km Altitude: 519 m
Shoreline: 28.8 km
Nearest island: 65 km
Nearest continent: Australia Distance: 3300 km Isolation Index: 74
ISLAND TYPE: high volcanic, coastal cliffs Natural Protection Indicator: 2
CLIMATE: wet tropical
CATASTROPHIC THREATS: cyclones, earthquakes
Threat Indicator: 2
ECOSYSTEMS: Number of Ecosystems - Terrestrial: 2 Marine: 1
Forest to west, scrub elsewhere; corals in pools
INVASIVE SPECIES: wild pigs

I'm not suggesting for a moment that Charlie knows he's on Late Island (if he even is). Charlie's just doodling on his hands. It's subtextual, the deeper meaning behind the literal meaning, a message to the viewer. Also, it goes without saying that the scenery/features on the show (in Hawaii) won't necessarily match up well with the features of this island (eg. cliffs at the shoreline, etc.).

Even I don't necessarily think this is correct...but what would be the significance of the word "Late" if not this? It can't be meaningless, and I don't think it has some insignificant meaning like "we'll all get to our destination, we'll just be a little late." Not when when the writers decide to write it down and hold it up like a sign for the viewer.

This island is probably too small to support 46 people, but I think you'd have a hard time finding many deserted islands that are much bigger. For that matter, even islands with the most abundant resources would be harder to survive on than what is depicted on the show. It's a difficult challenge for one person to survive off the land, and the idea that one hunter and one fisherman could support so many people is not all that realistic. So the writers have taken some license with these survival concerns, at least for now (I'm actually hoping they start running out of food). It's also too small to conceal a hidden society of "others."

I also wanted to point out that in the projection, the capital of Tahiti is taken as the starting point for the science expedition. The Society Islands are part of Tahiti, so the actual starting point could be as far as 500 kilometres west of the capital.

I like the Late island theory as being near the location, however, this island itself is just too small to be our island.

I like this Island too. Most islands or atolls don't have any heights. We know we have a crater. Since there are hundreds of islands, Late is a good place as any to start looking. Has boars too.

I like the Late island theory as being near the location, however, this island itself is just too small to be our island.


Yup. 6km is less than 4 miles across, and Boone and Locke were 4 miles from the beach and nowhere near another side of the island.

Blamo

Any thoughts on the Wallis Archipelago? I have my reasons. You have LATE. I have LeMaire. Jacob LeMaire. I don't speak French would La Mer and LeMaire be pronounced the same? I Haven't gotten much back on that either.

La Mer and LeMaire are probably pronounced the same, except for the Le/La part, of course.

The Wallis Archipelago is also in the right area, with about 20 small islands. Any idea if any of them are uninhabited?

Who's Jacob LeMaire?

I would not be suprised if there is no real island that this setting is supposed to represent:
(1) Any Island that large with natural water sources in the pacific is already inhabited
(2) The island is somehow "off the grid" (?electromagnetic interference)- supposedly no one has ever left, and clearly no one has picked up danielle's signal- i would think any known island would be findable

I love this thread and it's going in the Library.

OK now we know when 815 took off. 14:15 and that the sun was still shining before the crash, we see Jack looking out the window without a hint of sunset and let's give them an hour of time after the crash before the sun starts to set.

I'm thinking that the Pilot was lying or his instruments have been tampered with (He'd be able to tell wouldn't he?)

I found something interesting along these lines. Even though the compas seems to be off, could it still tell us where we are?
http://www.rescuedynamics.ca/articles/MagDecFAQ.htm#FACTORS

The pilot should definitely be able to tell if his instruments were tampered with. They'd have to tamper with a lot of instruments, and make them agree with each other (heading indicator, compass, GPS, and air traffic control tower come to mind). Even then he should have known something was up when it didn't get dark about three to four hours into the flight.

If you're thinking of declination as a means of determining their coordinates, I don't think it's precise enough that far from the north pole. As your link points out, declination varies a lot over a short distance when traveling at high latitudes. Near the equator you'd have to travel a long distance to detect a change in declination. Also, they'd need a chart showing the lines of declination on the earth (or at least have a very good idea of where the magnetic north pole is, in northern Canada). Even then, the lines circle the entire globe, so there's no way of telling where they would be on the line.

Longitude
The best way I can think of to determine longitude would be to determine what time it is when the sun is directly overhead. If their watches are all still set to Sydney time, and the sun is directly overhead at, say, 2:15, then they are 33.75° east of the centre of Sydney's time zone (150°E). Note that one hour = 15 degrees. That would make their longitude (in this hypothetical) 176.25°W. They could use a map or an atlas to figure this out if they had one, but even knowing what time zone Sydney is in (GMT+10) would be enough information to figure it out.

Latitude
It's even easier to figure out latitude. Here in the northern hemisphere we find our latitude by measuring the elevation of Polaris (the "North Star") above the horizon. There is no "South Star," so it would be necessary to make observations of the south sky. By finding the point in space that all the other stars seem to rotate around, and determining the elevation of that point above the horizon, they can determine their latitude. Ideally they would have a protractor for this, but they could probably make one in a pinch.

Can you tell I've spent some time thinking about this? :laugh: Most people don't seem to care, but for me solving the problem of being stranded is half the fun and intrigue of the show.

Great thread. Blamo, you could use the "Southern Cross" constellation to assist with measuring. It's the closest thing that would be there.

The Southern Sky
Because there is no star bright enough to be easily recognized near the south celestial pole, a constellation known as the Southern Cross is used as a signpost to the South (Figure 18-4). The Southern Cross or Crux has five stars. Its four brightest stars form a cross that tilts to one side. The two stars that make up the cross's long axis are the pointer stars. To determine south, imagine a distance five times the distance between These stars and the point where this imaginary line ends is in the general direction of south. Look down to the horizon from this imaginary point and select a landmark to steer by. In a static survival situation, you can fix this location in daylight if you drive stakes in the ground at night to point the way. With an illustration :
http://www.wilderness-survival.net/chp18.php

Thanks for that link, Bess. I have tried to figure out how they could determine their location without any esoteric knowledge of celestial navigation or equipment, just by using their brains. Maybe the Australians on the flight would be familiar with the Southern Cross the way that North Americans know about Polaris?

Thanks Sam for getting me kick-started again. :)

You're welcome, Blamo. This thread is fantastic. I was thinking that anyone with advanced survival training or interest in astronomy might have that knowledge. My first guess is that Arzt may have known. Unfortunately he's in bits and pieces. I bet Locke knows. (but he probably wouldn't share that info) ;) Keep going!

Y'all've got some great stuff here. I've also recently been trying to find the Island and I think I've come up with a viable location. The Island is either Desolation Island, a part of the Kerguelen Archipelago, or another island in the same Archipelago. It's Southwest of Australia (I'm sorry, I don't have distances yet) and not far from Antarctica. It's French owned as well. Instead of being 1000 miles as the pilot said, perhaps they went here.

http://www.thefuselage.com/threaded/index.php?topic=19463.0

Here's some links on the place, provided by Sam Grant in the Black Rock mining thread:

http://www.discoverfrance.net/Colonies/Kerguelen.shtml

http://www.discoverfrance.net/Colonies/Kerguelen.shtml#

http://www.discoverfrance.net/Colonies/Crozet.shtml#

http://www.africa-atlas.com/indian-ocean.htm

Here (http://www.wcrl.ars.usda.gov/cec/java/lat-long.htm) is a good site for finding surface distance between two coordinate points. Using 33°52'S 151°12E for Sydney and 49°20'S 70°20'E for Desolation Island (coordinates taken from your thread) yields a distance of 6603.94 kilometres = 4103.50 miles = 3565.84 nautical miles. Not out of the question, given the pilot's account of what happened (his scenario accounts for roughly 7 hours of flying, as far as I can tell).

The second link you provided describes the island as windswept and treeless, and inhabited by penguins and albatross. If Lost is based on this they are certainly using a lot of dramatic license. Perhaps we should keep an eye out for plot points that parallel the Patrick O'Brien stories.

I feel a little embarrassed asking this, but Captains Aubrey and Maturin are fictional characters, not historical figures right? Certainly Bligh is a historical figure, but I'm not clear on how much of this is fiction.

Captains Aubrey and Maturin are fictional characters - yes they are.

I`m still betting my money that they are in the Tahiti region, just because of the fact that this flag was mounted on the others boat:

http://www.em-fanartikel.de/fotw/images/p/pf-tah29.gif

Which is the flag of Tahiti.

Excellent catch, number 22. Interesting as well b/c Danielle tells Sayid

Rousseau

Our vessel was 3 days out of Tahiti when our instruments malfunctioned. It was night, a storm, the sounds. The ship slammed into rocks, ran aground, the hull breached beyond repair

I also think it would be hard to alter the fact that you were or weren't very near the equator.

http://terraserver.com/imagery/image_gx.asp?cpx=6.2342&cpy=4.8151&res=500&provider_id=340&t=pan* Latitude & Longitude finder

Here (http://www.wcrl.ars.usda.gov/cec/java/lat-long.htm) is a good site for finding surface distance between two coordinate points. Using 33°52'S 151°12E for Sydney and 49°20'S 70°20'E for Desolation Island (coordinates taken from your thread) yields a distance of 6603.94 kilometres = 4103.50 miles = 3565.84 nautical miles. Not out of the question, given the pilot's account of what happened (his scenario accounts for roughly 7 hours of flying, as far as I can tell).


Another thing to add to the LOST Library

Hey y'all,

Just one thing. Did y'all notice any snow around the Others in Ex. 2? I think it was chelle that brought that to my attention. I went searching online for screencaps, but couldn't find any. However, I did find a lost-forum thread that mentioned it. Someone else saw snow there as well.

Hey y'all,

Just one thing. Did y'all notice any snow around the Others in Ex. 2? I think it was chelle that brought that to my attention. I went searching online for screencaps, but couldn't find any. However, I did find a lost-forum thread that mentioned it. Someone else saw snow there as well.

There was something flying around. It wasn't spray from the ocean but questionable. It looked ashy.

Yes, it does appear to be snowing on the Others. I'm wondering if it could be bugs swarming around the searchlight, though.

Here are some screencaps, but it's not easy to capture the "snow."
http://www.geocities.com/mcmillerxxx/Lost/Other_snow1.jpg
http://www.geocities.com/mcmillerxxx/Lost/Other_snow2.jpg
http://www.geocities.com/mcmillerxxx/Lost/Other_snow3.jpg
http://www.geocities.com/mcmillerxxx/Lost/Other_snow4.jpg

Yes, it does appear to be snowing on the Others.* I'm wondering if it could be bugs swarming around the searchlight, though.

Here are some screencaps, but it's not easy to capture the "snow."
http://www.geocities.com/mcmillerxxx/Lost/Other_snow1.jpg
http://www.geocities.com/mcmillerxxx/Lost/Other_snow2.jpg
http://www.geocities.com/mcmillerxxx/Lost/Other_snow3.jpg
http://www.geocities.com/mcmillerxxx/Lost/Other_snow4.jpg

I saw it on tv but none of the screen caps I've seen show it very well.

I just rewatched it, and it does remind me of snow - sort like when you are driving at night and it's snowing - has that same look. What's odd is that it appears to just be around the boat. Would explain their heavy winter clothes.

Also noticed the young woman who threw the moloto cocktail seems to have the same type of jacket that Danielle had. ;)

Blamo:

Thanks for those screencaps. I went all over the net trying to find them last night. The ones I found definitely (to my eyes) didn't show anything. But, I remembered the flurries from the episode.

I`m still betting my money that they are in the Tahiti region, just because of the fact that this flag was mounted on the others boat:

http://www.em-fanartikel.de/fotw/images/p/pf-tah29.gif

Which is the flag of Tahiti.

Interesting side note ... This is not a link to a Tahitian flag. It's missing a key component. Here's the Tahitian flag:

http://www.hbtrading.com/pf.html

What that looks like is the flag of Austria, which you can see here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Austria

And if that's the case (I couldn't find an screenshot of the aforementioned flag), maybe that lends some credence to my Nazi theory, which you can read here:

http://www.thefuselage.com/threaded/index.php?topic=19544.0

totem - I just read your Nazi theory. I really like it! The Nazis would have been diabolical enough to set up such a thing. However, if that flag is the Austrian flag - it's the Austrian National Flag - and would not be a symbol of the Third Reich, but a symbol against it. (thinking back of the Nazi flag ripping scene in "The Sound of Music" and the proud display of the Austrian flag at that party Von Trapp threw) SO, if the creepy boat people are flying that flag - wouldn't that make them against the Nazi's? Just thinking. I'll post this on your other thread as well since it fits in better there. :) GREAT idea!

Interesting side note ... This is not a link to a Tahitian flag. It's missing a key component. Here's the Tahitian flag:

http://www.hbtrading.com/pf.html

http://www.thefuselage.com/threaded/index.php?topic=19544.0


http://www.world-flags.net/flag5.htm

This Site lists the flag as Tahitis flag without the inner thing. But it would be hard to tell if it`s there anyway, maybe somebody can snap a decent screenshot of the flag. It can only be seen during a very short period of time (1:16:10-1:16:14)

Some other facts about Tahiti:

"In September 1995, France stirred up widespread protests by resuming nuclear testing on the Mururoa atoll after a three-year moratorium. The tests were suspended in January 1996."

"Since 1962, when France stationed military personnel in the region, French Polynesia has changed from a subsistence agricultural economy to one in which a high proportion of the work force is either employed by the military or supports the tourist industry. With the halt of French nuclear testing in 1996, the military contribution to the economy fell sharply. "

"The mummies of Tahitian rulers were formerly deposited on mountains, traditionally considered holy."

"After Cook's visit, European ships landed on the island with ever greater frequency."

"The sailing from Australia to San Francisco depending on the wind and needs for replenishment of food and water. Ports usually included New Zealand, Tahiti, and/or the Sandwich Islands (Hawaii)."

This might shed new light on Danielle and her Team, probably they weren`t scientists, but from the french military. Which would also explain the patrol boat the others had.

Bess, excellent point! I withdraw my flag comment (it wouldn't fit my theory, as such).

I won't hijack this theory anymore - but I was looking at the Tahitian flag and the Austrian flag - they are SO close...it seems only the width of the stripes are different. Yikes! Too close to tell. Could go either way - just like everything else on this show! ;D

You make a good point, though, about the Austrian flag not being connected to the Nazi regime. The only way it could figure in is if the "private organization" in my other thread was headquarted in Austria following the war.

You make a good point, though, about the Austrian flag not being connected to the Nazi regime. The only way it could figure in is if the "private organization" in my other thread was headquarted in Austria following the war.
The Austrain flag wasn't connected to the Reich, but the only ones who ever objected to it were German Nazis, not the Austrians. The Germans saw it as a symbol of Austrian separatism from the Nazi's pan-Germanic union. However, I don't believe that there was ever an official Nazi policy about the Austrian flag. They didn't really need one. The Anschluss that united the countries passed with a 99.5+% majority. As for our Others in the South Pacific, well, a Nazi flag would scream their affiliations to many people in the world. The Austrian Flag might be used by Nazis from there who didn't want to have the swaztika seen.

The Austrain flag wasn't connected to the Reich That's what I said, and Totem said as well. ;)

I said , if that flag is the Austrian flag - it's the Austrian National Flag - and would not be a symbol of the Third Reich, but a symbol against it. ;)

That's what I said, and Totem said as well. ;)
The point was that although it wasn't connected to the Reich, many Austrians, even Nazis, still felt strongly about it.

it's the Austrian National Flag - and would not be a symbol of the Third Reich, but a symbol against it. (thinking back of the Nazi flag ripping scene in "The Sound of Music" and the proud display of the Austrian flag at that party Von Trapp threw) Yes, I know.

I`m sorry, but this whole Nazi theory makes no sense to me at all, seems way too far fetched. I don`t think they`ll venture into the area of conspiracy theories. Why would an Austrian flag be on a boat ? Austria has no connection to the sea at all, in fact it`s in the heart of Europe. I wouldn`t think too far. I mean it`s a fact that the french were conducting nuclear tests in the pacific ocean, especially in the Tahiti region. So I think it either is the Tahitian flag, or it is no flag at all.

http://www.melchizedek.com/misc/Karitanemap.htm

I figure it's time to throw in my favorite uncharted South Pacific Island.

http://www.fourmilab.ch/cgi-bin/uncgi/Earth?imgsize=1024&opt=-l&lat=335.75&ns=North&lon=158.583&ew=West&alt=7608&img=learth.evif Another new favorite toy. In the LOST Library

From: U.S. Geological Survey, Biological Resources Division Website, 2002 Contribution by: Lloyd L. Loope, Haleakala National Park Field Station, Makaweo, Hawaii
The Pacific is the world's largest ocean -- 20,000 kilometers across from Singapore to Panama. The Pacific Islands are commonly divided into the three geographic areas of Polynesia, Micronesia, and Melanesia. These areas together contain 789 habitable islands (Douglas 1969) ranging in size from New Guinea at 800,000 square kilometers to the tiniest coral atolls. Although these geographic divisions were originally based on the appearance and culture of the peoples who lived within their boundaries (Oliver 1989), they are also somewhat meaningful from geological and biogeographical standpoints.

The Melanesian islands (Melanesia), which are close to the Asian and Australian continents, are composed of rock that originated from volcanoes or sediments similar to those found on the continents. These relatively large islands usually have many kinds of animals and plants, but few species are limited to single islands or island groups. Within Melanesia, as one travels greater distances from the Asian mainland and the distance between islands becomes greater, the total number of animal and plant species found on each island decreases, but the number of species found only on each island (endemic species) increases.

Micronesia has a large number of very small islands and a total land area of less than 3,000 square kilometers. Micronesia has two main cultural and environmental divisions, with the volcanic Palau and Mariana islands of western Micronesia differing markedly from the atolls (low-lying, ringlike coral islands) of the Caroline, Marshall, and Gilbert island groups.

Polynesia includes 287 islands and is the largest of the Pacific geographic areas, although its land area of approximately 300,000 square kilometers is much less than that of Melanesia (Bellwood 1979). Polynesia is triangular, with Hawaii, New Zealand, and Easter Island at the apexes. New Zealand (268,570 square kilometers) and the Hawaiian Islands (16,558 square kilometers) are the largest island groups, respectively accounting for 89.5% and 5.5% of the land area of Polynesia. Polynesian islands generally lack sedimentary rocks other than recent alluvial deposits, and they are much smaller and more widely separated than the islands of Melanesia. The islands of Polynesia (except Tonga and New Zealand) are formed of basaltic rocks extruded from ancient volcanoes. The only active volcanoes in Polynesia are in Hawaii and New Zealand. Although the best-known Polynesian islands are high volcanic islands with jagged profiles, deep gorgelike valleys, and cascading waterfalls (for example, Society, Hawaiian, and Samoa islands), Polynesia has many atolls. Animals and plants of Polynesian high islands originated from ancestors that came across thousands of kilometers of empty ocean; the islands generally have few animal and plant species, many of which are found nowhere else.

http://www.worldtimezone.com/time-oceania.htm
World times zones

http://www.volcano.si.edu/world/ World volcanos

We are told in a round about way when sunset happens on the Island. In the Moth they are supposed to set off the bottle rockets at 5pm. Sayid get hit on the head and in the next episode Sayid asks Locke where he was at sunset? Being generous, sunset between 5:30-6pm

We are told in a round about way when sunset happens on the Island. In the Moth they are supposed to set off the bottle rockets at 5pm. Sayid get hit on the head and in the next episode Sayid asks Locke where he was at sunset? Being generous, sunset between 5:30-6pmPossibly. It's certainly good logic, however, isn't that a bit early for a sunset in the tropics. 5:30 to 6:00 seems like it would be sunset in New York in November. I can't see sunset occurring that early at any time of year in the tropics.

Possibly. It's certainly good logic, however, isn't that a bit early for a sunset in the tropics. 5:30 to 6:00 seems like it would be sunset in New York in November. I can't see sunset occurring that early at any time of year in the tropics.
Usinf Fiji as an example
http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/astronomy.html?n=82&obj=sun&month=9&year=2004&day=1 sunset 6:02pm

http://puuoo.caltech.edu/outreach/nightandday/sunrise.htm does this help? Someone also pointed out that it was the Equinox.

OK I was trying to find locations that had sunset fall between 5:30 and 6pm and came across this. http://www.ufoevidence.org/Photographs/Photo325.htm That's all we need.

Clearly we need to be looking at all the information we have stored in this thread. We've even covered going the other direction towards Africa. There's still thousands of miles that can't be explained yet.

I just wanted to bump this thread up to see if anyone had any new theories.

Someone mentioned that the plane would have to go from Sydney to Hawaii to refuel and then to L.A. I’m not a flier – is that true?

The Oceanic site gives their flight time as 13 hours 52 minutes. I checked some flights on American Airlines and United Airlines and they seemed to have direct flights from Sydney to L.A. with flight times around 13 hours. They also had flights that stopped in Honolulu but their flight times were more like 17 or 18 hours. Was there any mention in any of the episodes about the flight having to stop in Hawaii?

We know they flew for 6 hours before turning around. But we really need to know if the plane was pointed toward L.A. or Hawaii in order to pinpoint their location at the time of turning back to Fiji.

Once we know that location, we can draw a circle that represents 2 hours flying time. (As per Cindy in “The Other 48 Days.”) I know the pilot thinks he was headed for Fiji, but with the radio out, and with this mysterious island pulling them, it isn’t a stretch to believe that their other instruments weren’t giving true readings.

We can also draw a circle around Tahiti that represents 3 days travel, and see where the 2 circles intersect. (Although I know we don’t know the speed of Danielle’s boat.)

We should also keep in mind that Desmond was on a solo boat trip around the world. I did some checking into these types of races: they generally depart in the Atlantic, either from the U.S. coast or from Britain. They sail south around Africa (Cape of Good Hope), then past the south coast of Australia/New Zealand, then around the southern tip of South America (Cape Horn) and back north to where they started from. For Desmond to get anywhere near Fiji/Kiribati/Cook Islands he would have to have been several thousand miles off course. And the farther north you go, the more implausible it gets, as you wonder how he would pass by so many populated islands. I think we need to be looking somewhere south of Niue.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:LocationNiue.png

This isn’t the greatest map, but it shows that if you were sailing south of N.Z. and went off course in a northerly direction, once you hit Niue there are thousands and thousands of islands and atolls. It just seems unlikely to me that Desmond would have snaked his way through so many islands before crashing. And since we haven’t seen any ships passing our island, or tourists stopping by, I’d think that it would be out in the middle of nowhere. Off the beaten path.

And don’t even ask me how the Beechcraft got over there. :D

Hmmm...maybe if they are in Oceania, then OCEANIC airlines doesnt really exist and they all got on a plane STRAIGHT to nowhere. Think about it..who actually bought a plane ticket?
Michael was given his by Bryan
Claire given hers by the psychic
Locke given his by the walkabout tours
Charlie had a record deal and I bet they paid for him to fly out there (ticket given to him)
Kate didnt buy a ticket, she was "given" one
From the looks of the promo pics, Sawyer was given one too

Hey I think I am on to something here!!!!!

I really like this theory. :biggrin:

I like this. And you might be onto something.

What about Jack though?

And Sun and Jin -- possible their ticket was purchased by Sun's father...

Interested to see how this develops...
Jack was trying to take his father's body on the plane, but the airline wouldn't allow it. It may be possible that they "gave" him the ticket on the "plane to nowhere" just to make it seem like he was getting his way. And of course they knew he would be "lost" so they wouldn't get sued or anything.

The woman who was helping Sun to leave Jin may have had something to do with the ticket purchase. Or she may have been working with Sun's father.

Also Hurley missed his original flight and ended up on this one.

I just wanted to bump this thread up to see if anyone had any new theories.

Someone mentioned that the plane would have to go from Sydney to Hawaii to refuel and then to L.A. I’m not a flier – is that true?

The Oceanic site gives their flight time as 13 hours 52 minutes. I checked some flights on American Airlines and United Airlines and they seemed to have direct flights from Sydney to L.A. with flight times around 13 hours. They also had flights that stopped in Honolulu but their flight times were more like 17 or 18 hours. Was there any mention in any of the episodes about the flight having to stop in Hawaii?

We know they flew for 6 hours before turning around. But we really need to know if the plane was pointed toward L.A. or Hawaii in order to pinpoint their location at the time of turning back to Fiji.

Once we know that location, we can draw a circle that represents 2 hours flying time. (As per Cindy in “The Other 48 Days.”) I know the pilot thinks he was headed for Fiji, but with the radio out, and with this mysterious island pulling them, it isn’t a stretch to believe that their other instruments weren’t giving true readings.

We can also draw a circle around Tahiti that represents 3 days travel, and see where the 2 circles intersect. (Although I know we don’t know the speed of Danielle’s boat.)

We should also keep in mind that Desmond was on a solo boat trip around the world. I did some checking into these types of races: they generally depart in the Atlantic, either from the U.S. coast or from Britain. They sail south around Africa (Cape of Good Hope), then past the south coast of Australia/New Zealand, then around the southern tip of South America (Cape Horn) and back north to where they started from. For Desmond to get anywhere near Fiji/Kiribati/Cook Islands he would have to have been several thousand miles off course. And the farther north you go, the more implausible it gets, as you wonder how he would pass by so many populated islands. I think we need to be looking somewhere south of Niue.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:LocationNiue.png

This isn’t the greatest map, but it shows that if you were sailing south of N.Z. and went off course in a northerly direction, once you hit Niue there are thousands and thousands of islands and atolls. It just seems unlikely to me that Desmond would have snaked his way through so many islands before crashing. And since we haven’t seen any ships passing our island, or tourists stopping by, I’d think that it would be out in the middle of nowhere. Off the beaten path.

And don’t even ask me how the Beechcraft got over there. :D From all I've rad the flight was non-stop Sydney to LA. Towards the beginning of this thread we coverd the main flight paths the commercial airlines take. There are diagrams people have added from their own calculations. It is still a puzzle.

It is funny to read this stuff when you all are talking hundreds or thousands of miles, when I am pretty convinced of hundreds of thousands of miles. Oh well, we will find out ...

For the people that have managed to miss this thread.

On this thread
http://www.thefuselage.com/Threaded/showthread.php?t=40576&page=4

I had posted:

Well.. hold on a sec! A thought just occured to me. Maybe, the plane flew South towards and over Antarctica and over into the Atlantic Ocean then crashed on the island in the Atlantic! This would explain the Nigerian plane and the ship!

I know from reading on expeditions that have gone to the poles that a standard compass does not work (you have to use a special compass which has a needle that floats vertically). Because, if you are at the South pole, every direction is North. Which way to go! Which way to go!

Also, there is a magnetic anomoly on the African continent in which, for some reason, the lines of magnetic flux go in the opposite direction. This was determined by a special satellite, but can also be determined by the alignment of the crystals in the rock. So, maybe this island is of the same nature explaining the variation to magnetic North.

So, how far South towards Antarctica is 6 hours of flying time?

On this thread
http://www.thefuselage.com/Threaded/showthread.php?t=40576&page=4

I had posted:

Well.. hold on a sec! A thought just occured to me. Maybe, the plane flew South towards and over Antarctica and over into the Atlantic Ocean then crashed on the island in the Atlantic! This would explain the Nigerian plane and the ship!

I know from reading on expeditions that have gone to the poles that a standard compass does not work (you have to use a special compass which has a needle that floats vertically). Because, if you are at the South pole, every direction is North. Which way to go! Which way to go!

Also, there is a magnetic anomoly on the African continent in which, for some reason, the lines of magnetic flux go in the opposite direction. This was determined by a special satellite, but can also be determined by the alignment of the crystals in the rock. So, maybe this island is of the same nature explaining the variation to magnetic North.

So, how far South towards Antarctica is 6 hours of flying time? Roughly 3000 miles UT OH I'm scared.......

Usinf Fiji as an example
http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/astronomy.html?n=82&obj=sun&month=9&year=2004&day=1 sunset 6:02pm

http://puuoo.caltech.edu/outreach/nightandday/sunrise.htm does this help? Someone also pointed out that it was the Equinox.

OK I was trying to find locations that had sunset fall between 5:30 and 6pm and came across this. http://www.ufoevidence.org/Photographs/Photo325.htm That's all we need.

Are we now looking in the middle of the Indian Ocean? That would at least give us the right place for the sunset to happen.

Remember TPTB told us that 23 would be important?
S.O.S.

Isaac: There are certain places with great energy... spots on the Earth like the one we're above now. Perhaps this energy is geological... magnetic. Or perhaps it's something else. And when possible I harness this energy and give it to others. May I?
[He puts his hands near Rose's face and closes his eyes then suddenly opens them looking disturbed]
Rose: What? What, what is it?
Isaac: I'm sorry. I can't do anything for you, Rose.
Rose: I didn't expect you to.
Isaac: It's not that you can't be healed. Like I said, there's different energies. This is not the right place for you.

There have been several Threads discussing the Ley Lines and Vortices. There is a vortice that correspondes to each one of the numbers.
http://www.thefuselage.com/Threaded/showthread.php?t=6271

http://www.deepinfo.com/WorldGridPlaces.htm Vortices

23 - happens to be the Chagos Archipelago - http://www.worldatlas.com/webimage/countrys/asia/biot.htm

They are close to the Equator (Sayid told Shannon) They also look like they could be in the right area for the sunset to have happened after the crash. The are closer to Africa so the Beechcraft would have been able to make it there from maybe Madigascar. Also, Diego Garcia - http://www.npr.org/programs/wesat/features/2001/diego/011013.diego.html
US used the base for air strikes against Afganistan (Kate's Dad?) There are also many interesting things about satellites (where have we heard that before?)
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/facility/diego-garcia-imagery-3.htm because it was interesting. There are many very political things involving Diego Garcia.

I don't believe the Losties are on Diego Garcia but one of the islands in the group.

Now that we saw the "Live" video feed in OoU I am even more interested in finding out what has happened to time.

I posted this in the nations thread but I'll post it here too if anyone really cares. Flight 815 left from Sydney. The pilot said 6 hours in they lost communication. Using my magical awesome globe which says flight time between two points, I determined that, on the northeast direction they were heading, 6 hours from Sydney would be in the midst of the Phoenix Islands, I don't have a lat/long map on me so I'm estimating they were around 4 degrees south and 171-172 degrees west. He then said they went towards Fiji. He said they were 1000 miles off course. This places them 75 miles east of Rotuma Island, a dependency of Fiji, and 235 miles NNW of the Fijan mainland

If you check the LOST library in my signature there are a bunch of sites I listed to help with calculations and things.