Not impressed with the ep? Tell us why. :biggrin:

After the extreme letdown of last season's finale, I told myself that I wouldn't watch Lost anymore. Obviously, I lied. Curse my inability to not care how something ends.

I was hoping that the series would redeem itself with this season's premiere, but no such luck. The show is turning into more and more of a soap opera, i.e. nothing really happens in each episode. It just seems like they're drawing everything out to keep the show on the air longer. Utter confusion and disjointedness doesn't make something suspenseful. It just makes it irritating.

This lack of separation between the real world and the island is sort of getting to me. It was interesting when they were totally cut off from civilization on this weird island inhabited by monsters, polar bears, and these animal-like "Others." But the more the show progresses, the more this seems to be not the case at all. I've always felt that isolation and lack of familiarty is part of the appeal. But now it almost seems like one of the characters could send an email if the Others let them.

I think it should of been two hours, after waiting all summer, I wanted some LOST! I did like the episode though.

Can't say I was really feeling it. The whole thing felt like it could have been told in 1/4 the time, which is bad enough for a normal episode and even worse for a season premiere. Not to say I didn't think it was interesting, the whole episode had a really creepy tone to it. It was just really, really slow. I'm hoping we start getting up to a more normal speed soon.

A promising opening 4 minutes, and then the rest was pretty terrible. I thought it was really disappointing for a season premiere. How many Jackbacks do we need to tell us he has daddy issues and needs to fix people? I don't need to be beaten about the head with it, I get it already. I wasn't left feeling very excited about this 3rd season.

The whole thing felt like it could have been told in 1/4 the time, which is bad enough for a normal episode

I think we did get a quarter of an episode... to many comercials and not much really going on... I hope next week is better!!

Yeah, I didn't find it to be very exciting at all. I just felt like we were watching Jack do a normal routine. Yell and cry. If there had been some Claire, it would have been better xDD

Or more Ethan.

Can someone recap the last minute of the eppy. My Tivo Cut out and I missed everything after Juliet finally got jack to sit

She put the food in, came out, and Henry was there. He said to her, "Nice work, Juliet."

She says "Thanks, Ben." and walks through the door. Closeup on Henry/Ben's face, ep over

I posted something similar to the following in the 'what'd you think' thread... so sorry if you're reading this twice :)

I thought the begining was interesting to see 'the others' reaction to the plane crash and 'henry' or Ben... whatever his name was.... sending Ethan and Goodwin out. But other than that... it was incredibly predictable. It was practically the same thing they did last season

I hated! that no one else was in it. But I loved Sawyer and Kate's exchange. No one can ever again say that man has no soul. That was very sweet. Jack's flashbacks were pretty good... I think this one was supossed to be about his disire to control things in his life, more than needing to fix things... but I agree it wasn't anything too new. But I did think it was one of Jack's strongest performances.

I agree with Lionhearted that I don't like the new technology and 'civilized' life they've got. I also miss the days when they hunted and lived in caves. That's when Lost was it's best in my opinion.

Pretty much... I think exactly what the title of this thread says.... it could have been better. I liked some stuff, but I didn't feel it was very strong for a season premiere. I hope the next episodes pick up the pace even just a little (although I do think the slow pace was suposse to mirror their confusion or something like that) and show the other characters!!!!!

I agree, and they should have made it at least 2 hours! with all the commercials and what not.....idk im in between on liking it and loving it, so meh....

After the extreme letdown of last season's finale, I told myself that I wouldn't watch Lost anymore. Obviously, I lied. Curse my inability to not care how something ends.

I was hoping that the series would redeem itself with this season's premiere, but no such luck. The show is turning into more and more of a soap opera, i.e. nothing really happens in each episode. It just seems like they're drawing everything out to keep the show on the air longer. Utter confusion and disjointedness doesn't make something suspenseful. It just makes it irritating.


Patience is a virtue my friend. Peace and all the best.

i thought it was all right. there were a tad too many commercials. The opening was very promising and it did start to go downhill after a while.

thought i am really looking forward to seeing next weeks episode. wew can see what happened with the rest of the cast.

The pacing felt really off, like it was half of a 2 hour premier that got chopped. I also feel like the production value wasn't at Lost's high standards of great cinematography and sound design which make the show so engrossing. For example the extreme contrasting red/green in Jack's cell, it feels so forced and theatrical, that it becomes harder to suspend disbelief. Or how does Jack get that door closed against rushing water? When everything feels real, we're ready to beleive miracles, but when the details feel false, the illusion fails. You started to get it back with Sawyer's POV being carried back to his cell, which was really nice.

I like that when we're left with questions we're dying to know, we are rewarded with answers that are also questions we didn't even know we wanted to know. This episode didn't present many new questions, only answers that are situations to lend an air of suspense. They seem found, and as a viewer I didn't feel lost.

Patience is a virtue my friend. Peace and all the best.


Thanks for the well-meant platitude, but perhaps it would be better to try to restrict posts to the topic of the thread, namely, things you did not like about the episode.

I agree with the others about the technology. It was better when the losties seemed more, well, lost! It doesn't seem like the show is about a lot of stranded castaways anymore. I guess it's not..lol

a) i wasnt into Jack's reaction in the hostage situation. why THAT door? why force the door? it just seemed like a total diversion in the plot to get him recaptured and develop cheesy character development between him and her. seemed way too unrealistic, way too hastey and (i dont even want to use the word 'irrational') flat out stupid. didnt like that chain of events.

b) everyone on the island can knock anyone out with a punch .... or the perfectly aimed butt of a gun without stitches, giant bruises or concussions. hilarious mechanism to "END" the situation. sure, its been done a million times but its getting retarded.

c) the graphics for the plane were funny.

d) not into the external drama at all of jack and his ex-wife... just cant dig the nonsense of them relying on their past when they should be consumed by their present and the relationships that are immediate.

e) the next episode looked more promising... hopefully. fairly weak in ways for a season debut.

I wasn't agreeing with the lack of action and excessive commercials. There was also a little more Jack than I cared to see. I didn't feel it was a very strong season premiere. Next week looks a little more up to par.

The begining was great!

The Sawyer/Kate scene was really sweet :biggrin:

I felt for Jack during the eppy.

But as much as I like Christian Shephard, Jackbacks REALLY bore me :undecide:

Ok, the episode had some great moments (Kate & Benry, Sawyer & Kate) and I did like the reveal of Otherville, but over all I did think the episode was a bit slow. I also really did not think that Jack's flash-backs were that significant.

Or maybe I just didn't 'get' it.:undecide:

Actually, I found the flashback to be very relevant. We've always seen Jack as so much of a protagonist, here, he was definitely seen as part of the problem in the relationship between him and his father.

After the extreme letdown of last season's finale, I told myself that I wouldn't watch Lost anymore. Obviously, I lied. Curse my inability to not care how something ends.

I was hoping that the series would redeem itself with this season's premiere, but no such luck. The show is turning into more and more of a soap opera, i.e. nothing really happens in each episode. It just seems like they're drawing everything out to keep the show on the air longer. Utter confusion and disjointedness doesn't make something suspenseful. It just makes it irritating.


I agree, like another poster said I liked it much better when they were living in caves and trying to survive. The island seems to be a form of utopia only for the select few. I am totally confused. :confused: All of the reasons why I started watching the show in the first place have been thrown out the door. I just hope they can improve on this. My son watched it with me, and said he is more confused now, then he was before. He said it would be much better if the Losties were stuck on an island and have to survive by using primitive ways. The others just confound him, same with me. :confused:

i was quite happy with the epi was hoping jack would ask the girl a different question though like that told us much. im curious to see how the next 2 weeks with the others unfolds and what they have in mind for the 3 of them.

wow our posts are pretty close together

I was extremely disappointed in this episode, especially in that it was the season premiere.

1) You could have watched the first and last 5 minutes of the episode and not have missed anything of real relevance.

2) What did we actually learn?
a) The others live in a modern village (not entirely suprising)
b) Henry (Ben) is their leader (uh...kinda already knew that)
c) The others have apparent real time contact with the outside world

Wow...enlightening. So many questions answered.

Seriously guys... I did not need 12+ minutes of flash backs to jack and Sarah again. I get it ok? That was fluff and did nothing to advance the plot or storyline. This episode played like it was a filler for the middle of the season and the writers had a bad week. I can not believe I waited all summer for this. It hurts me to write this as I usually hate criticizing anything someone else is doing creatively, but I've seen the Twin Peaks and X-Files thing happen before and I was/am SO hoping Lost would not follow in that path... You know where they get more concerned about the nothingness of their mythology than actually producing a smart, suspensful plot line.

Anyway, thank you to the powers that be for letting me vent. I will give the show another couple episodes but if things don't pick up here then I'm gonna have to pull the plug on this series.

Oh, and I think we are all getting tired of seeing seemingly intelligent people (Jack, Kate, Sawyer, etc...) constantly outsmarted, maneuvered by the so called others. Either give me an explanation as to why these people are so darned omniscient (It has been 2 years after all!) or let our heros get in some licks of their own, because right now they are starting to just become pathetic shells of their original personas. :drowsy:

Like so many other posters said, the begining was fantastic! But, the show fizzled out after that. :confused:

I was really disappointed and upset. I waited all summer for this and this crap is what they give us? I kept waiting for something exciting to happen and nothing did. The acting was overdramatic and the story really didn't move forward at all. Nothing was resolved from last season. I felt like I had seen the previews for this episode and that was pretty much everything that happened. With all the other new shows on this year Lost had better step it up.
Specific imponderables:
-Why wouldn't Kate be glad to have a shower and clean clothes? Right now she has no idea that Jack and Sawyer aren't also taking showers and eating bacon.
-If you were planning on escaping or making a move wouldn't you eat and drink so that you would be strong for the action?
-How did Jack close that door against all that water if he hadn't eaten or drank anything in several days? Wouldn't he be too weak?
-Why didn't Sawyer ask that kid in the other cage if he was also a survivor of the Oceanic flight?
-Why was Jack all upset over his ex? He's never really particularly cared before, as far as we know.
-Why would Jack keep pulling the chains? Wouldn't he climb it and see what its attached to? He's a smart guy.

Looks like we're sticking to the same convoluted ideas that ruined last season. How come a magnetic pulse, EMP or whatever it was that was unleashed in the Hatch was powerful enough to rip the Losties plane apart, (why the plane was anywhere near island is another dropped plotline) but had absolutely no adverse effect on the Others little slice of suburbia? After he gave Goodwin and Ethan their marching orders, I was expecting Benry to turn to the remaining Others and bark "Quickly, everyone, put on your tattered rags disguises!!"

So Benry is the calculating genuis leading the Others, but how could someone so smart fall into Rousseaus (the french woman) simple snare trap last season? Why dress up like Henry Gale in the first place? What purpose did it serve? The producers are just throwing out scenes and plot devices that are just cool to watch unfold, but really make no sense when you think about them.

Lots of great posts here and I have to say I agree with much of the sentiment. The opening sequence was great (although I cringed when I heard the same song they opened with last season)...the episode alone was not bad, however as a season premiere it sucked.

I too prefer an island disconnected from the real world...then again, we don't know much about these others and who they really are, I assume we'll know when and if we find out if Michael and Watt really escaped or not.

Is it true that all we're getting is six episodes before a two month hiatus which will bring us to Feb? That's crazy...are they intentionally trying to kill the series?

Weak beginning to the third season...and too many damn commercials. :drowsy:

I didn't hate the episode, but it was EXTREMELY disappointing for a premiere.

We only got one or two revelations, none of which being particularly major. It just felt like nothing happened.

I might make a post a little later with a little more depth but for now I want to smack all the people complaining about commercials. The episode wasn't any shorter than the others and there were just as many commercials as the others. It was still the 42 minutes that the episodes always are so there's absolutely nothing to be complaining about here.

I didn't hate the episode, but it was EXTREMELY disappointing for a premiere.

We only got one or two revelations, none of which being particularly major. It just felt like nothing happened.

I might make a post a little later with a little more depth but for now I want to smack all the people complaining about commercials. The episode wasn't any shorter than the others and there were just as many commercials as the others. It was still the 42 minutes that the episodes always are so there's absolutely nothing to be complaining about here.

Cool, I was wondering if there was any difference in minutes...I guess it was just the slow pace of the episode and the fact that nothing happened which attributed to the illusion of their being too many commericials....

It was boring, and other than the first few minutes sucked as a season premiere. I can't believe I waited all summer for that. We learned practially nothing new , except Henry's real name. Big. Freaking. Deal. I can't believe the writers focused on the convoluted Others/hatch/experiment that ruined last season for many people. I liked it better when the Others were mysterious. I wouldn't mind them now if we only got some answers. Instead, we get boring not-mysterious Others and NO ANSWERS.

I felt the first scene was fantastic. Brilliantly done, even if it was almost a direct rip-off from last season. Creatively, this was nothing new, but it was still cool.

After that, as others have said, not much happened. At the end of the episode our protagonists are in the exact same situation as they were at the beginning of the episode. Nothing happened. Nothing changed. Narratively, the episode was stagnant. It had some good information in it which I appreciate, but nothing really *happened".

-Why would Jack keep pulling the chains? Wouldn't he climb it and see what its attached to? He's a smart guy.

He can see what it's attached to, that's not what he was doing. He was trying to break them so he could use them to break the glass. Well, at least that's my assumption. It was just an aparatus to suspend a shark or dolphin. The chains don't 'go' anywhere. They're just bolted to the ceiling, which is in plain sight. Jack knows this. I just figured he was trying to get something he could use to break the glass and escape.

The one thing that continues to bother me about this show is that there is nothing to 'cheer' about. No moment of "HELL YEAH!" where one of our protagonists gets the drop on the enemy, or gains an edge, or anything. Our 'heroes' are continually portrayed as bumbling fools who can't do anything right, can't catch any breaks, and are easily (and I mean EASILY) manipulated and toyed with.

I have been waiting since the end of Season 1 for Sawyer to give 'Zeke' his come-uppance. I've been waiting for Sayid to finally get his hands on one of the others and really let them have it (although he did torture Ben, it was fruitless, didn't yield anything, and was probably part of Ben's plan anyway).

Our 'heroes' are incompetent fools who can't defend themselves. The consistantly lose every confrontation with the Others. I realize that this is because they are at a distinct disadvantage, but if they continue to lose, fail, and get humiliated, it becomes harder and harder for me to really get behind them. They're just not 'fighters'. I'm waiting for them to finally kick some ***, and I just don't think they ever will. They just keep getting 'owned'. It's no fun pulling for a chronic loser.

We have nothing to 'cheer' about! No moments of triumph! No nothing.

I didn't care for this episode. Too much Jack. And learning that Jack semi-stalked his ex-wife just didn't endear me to the character. He just seemed way out of balance this episode.

The interlude with Sawyer in the panda cage was a highlight for me.

The scene between Kate/an Fenry was such a cliche of the evil baddy taking the captured heroine to supper before torturing/maiming her boyfriend. Might have been more interesting if it had been played out with one of the male leads. Kate is tough. Seeing her captured and held like the typical romance novel heroine just bored me.

Meh. Average. Nothing to get too excited about.

I didn't hate it either, but I too was disappointed. Of course I'll keep watching, but I really hope we get more substance next week. I'm really, really afraid that it is going to become "Soap Opera on an Island." What did we find out that we didn't already know? I didn't really see anything that made me go "Oh cool!" like I've come to expect with Lost. Thank goodness I have "Dr. Who" to look forward to. Now that is a good show!

Cool, I was wondering if there was any difference in minutes...I guess it was just the slow pace of the episode and the fact that nothing happened which attributed to the illusion of their being too many commericials....

Huh? when things are boring and moving slowly they would seem to take longer not shorter. Things that are exciting and fast paced goes by quicker which would make the ads seem more frequent.

I could be wrong.:redface:

I'm with most of you. A pretty tame eppy for the premiere. Last night I had apologized ahead of time to my roomate who went to bed that she might be hearing an "OH MY GOD" while I was watching it due to the promised 'Jaw Dropper' excitement. This morning she said she didn't hear anything. Probably because I had almost fell asleep. I REALLY hope they've got something meatier for us next week!!
The best part was Sawyer being a monkey to get to the dog food. The rest... eh...

Well I put this in the other thread, and I think it really belongs here!

Many of you said exactly things that annoyed me about this episode, and I am glad to hear that I am not the only one who thought the characters did not act logically and seemed way stupid for their situation!

But on to my rant!! :biggrin:

:mad: Nothing really happened for a whole hour! We got one little scene in the beginning and then after that nothing! I was not happy and I was almost screaming at the tv. I can't stand the smug attitude of the Others. I don't care what is going on on that Island, it does not give them the right to treat people like that. And the fact that they showed the brainwasher breaking down in the beginning left me so cold after she walked out without giving Jack food when he sat up against the wall. After that moment, I could have cared less about her. Then I got frustrated with Jack! Why not let the thing fill with water and swim out!??? You want to get away, you get away! You definitely don't give in to them! So you are hungry? So she tells you about the drugs and how they will affect you? So what? They gave them to you! If they want you to eat, DON"T give you drugs that will make you sick!!! I wish Jack had not given in, especially that quickly! I would have made them force me to eat first. I would not have made it easy for them to break me. Cause at least I would hold on to that. They really would have had to force me. That or just have given in right away. If Jack was that angry and stubborn, he really did cave pretty quickly!

As for the others...I just do not buy that there is anything on that island happening that justifies them torturing and killing innocent people who CRASHED on the island through NO FAULT of their own!!! They had NOTHING to do with being on the island and I am sure most of them given the choice would much rather not be there! (ESPECIALLY all the ones that died in the crash!!!) Its like there is a war going on and they are the innocent civilians who are being killed by by .... Nazis to protect the secret to Hitler's great nuclear project. Then the writers tell you about one of the Nazi, and show them breaking down and then in the next scene torturing prisoners! I mean these people tried to kill Charlie, they were going to kill Claire, they killed several people from Jack's group, and if not outright killed most from the other group, they certainly didn't treat them nice, given what we have seen this episode! Where do they get off doing this and acting like the survivors are to blame by poking their nose where they don't belong! Just does not make sense at all to me!!!

I was thinking about why I am SO upset, and it is basically

1. The fact that they tried to make the woman sympathetic and then had her do horrible things to Jack and Sawyer!

and

2. Sarah...what a ***Mod edited to remove creative spelling***!!!! It takes real class to pretend you still care for your ex husband and then take a call from your new man during the divorce meeting? and the scene where she bailed Jack out of prison! I mean, if you know the guy is losing it and you decide to come bail him out, then tell him to get a cab, and goodbye forever and then go outside into the waiting arms of your lover, right in front of him? No wonder Jack was going mental!

I'm sorry but the writers just don't seem able to get real characterization that is in any way logical or at least understandable and they keep flipping how the character acts. Jack going insane in his flashbacks? Why? What was the reasoning for that? It can't just be because Sarah was leaving him. They make statements about his mental health and how he is losing it, but don't say why. Why was Sarah calling the Dad for help with Jack? What the hell was going on with Jack that was pushing her away all of a sudden??? I have no sympathy for her, cause it is obvious she didn't really love Jack to begin with. and this episode proves it.

First off, thanks to the writers and everyone for a great opening scene with the plane going down from the Others perspective. After that, it was all downhill. I am truly hoping for a little bit more expeditious dissemination of information in the future. The basis for the premier was predictable at best as one can look at the second "training" video and see uniformed people performing jumping jacks as if training for something in a camp of some kind. The voice-over on this is stating that at the "observation station" you must hone your skills of observation in order to select a proper mate to perpetuate the intiative. Obviously anything that I have to say from here is purely speculation, but maybe that is why Jack, Kate, and Sawyer were selected as suitable "mates" and thus Hurley was let go. However, I digress; maybe it was the weight of my own expectations that brought this on, but I just found it all to be a little too predictable.

I THINK IT IS TIME TO DO AWAY WITH JACK. His backstory is getting old and isn't going anywhere. He has just stopped being interesting.

This lack of separation between the real world and the island is sort of getting to me. It was interesting when they were totally cut off from civilization on this weird island inhabited by monsters, polar bears, and these animal-like "Others." But the more the show progresses, the more this seems to be not the case at all. I've always felt that isolation and lack of familiarty is part of the appeal. But now it almost seems like one of the characters could send an email if the Others let them.
I could not figure out what was bugging me about this episode, but this was it. The whole thought of total isolation, gone. Having to learn to live in a different world, etc.. It seems that rescue can only be a phone call away.

I agree the opening scene was good. But the others torturing Jack, Kate and Sawyer I found ridiculous. I too found it predictable. I find myself asking about Danielle and the ship, the hatches and all of the other stuff in season 1 that they haven't answered yet. I agree with Lionhearted, the whole thought of total isolation is GONE.

The show is a hair's breath from jumping the shark. I hope that the purpose of going on hiatus after week six is to assess where the storyline is going and then to make the necessary corrections. While the opening was interesting in that it came from the Others persepctive and alerted us to an alternate reality -- I particularly liked staring the music on CD rather than vinyl -- it created more problems than it solved. If it was that easy for Goodwin and Ethan to get to wreckage it should not be a problem for Danielle or Desmond or Kelvin to have stumbled on their little suburb. Was the implication that they are a race of superhumans? It has taken the Losties days to travis the jungle to get from tail to fuselage but it only takes them an hour? And their reaction to the rumble made no sense. Why not just run outside instead of stand under a doorway? Didn't they know what caused the rumble? And do they enjoy torturing people? The hand cuffs, the cages, the isloation booth are all so unnecessary. Having Kate put on a dress for her "romantic" breakfast with Ben. What was the point? And what would cause them to shift from the mundane existence of suburban life -- do you really think they would have a book of the month club -- to homicidal sadists?? Of course the earlier comment about the lose of the sense of isolation is the key reason the show is about to jump. Either it is easy to leae or it is easy to build your own utopia. Either way the adventure is gone.

The season premiere was a snoozer. This show used to blow my mind and make it hard to fall asleep afterwards on Wednesday nights. Last night, after the opening sequence, I almost fell asleep during the show.

How many times do they have to rehash Jack's control issues? How many times do we have to watch Kate wearing a stupid bath towel?
Endless kidnappings and interrogations. Wake me up when something happens.

After the extreme letdown of last season's finale, I told myself that I wouldn't watch Lost anymore. Obviously, I lied. Curse my inability to not care how something ends.

I was hoping that the series would redeem itself with this season's premiere, but no such luck. The show is turning into more and more of a soap opera, i.e. nothing really happens in each episode. It just seems like they're drawing everything out to keep the show on the air longer. Utter confusion and disjointedness doesn't make something suspenseful. It just makes it irritating.

I thought it was a very disappointing premiere and i was hoping for more after a wretched season 2. Just underlines my previous thoughts and i shall not be watching next weeks episode.

Flashbacks are now being used to give reasons for someone's actions on the island. Why did Jack try and force the door ? Because he's stubborn and forced things with his father and Sarah. Wow. Would you go through a door like that ? I thought Jack had already tasted the salt water and the whole interior of the building he was in screamed at being underwater.
Just like Rose's flashback being an excuse for her to stop Bernards attempt at finding a way home, Jack's flashback was an excuse for him to act like an idiot when he's angry.

And the whole thing with Jack and Sawyer being locked up and Kate having a shower and a meal...how clichéd is that ?! Did the writer watch Raiders Of The Lost Ark too mnay times or get brought up on watching cheesy prison b movies?


Everything seems geared to slowing the show down so it last for more seasons but as MissNomer says, it's not making it suspenseful - just incredibly irritating.

:mad: Nothing really happened for a whole hour! We got one little scene in the beginning and then after that nothing! I was not happy and I was almost screaming at the tv. I can't stand the smug attitude of the Others. I don't care what is going on on that Island, it does not give them the right to treat people like that. And the fact that they showed the brainwasher breaking down in the beginning left me so cold after she walked out without giving Jack food when he sat up against the wall. After that moment, I could have cared less about her. Then I got frustrated with Jack! Why not let the thing fill with water and swim out!??? You want to get away, you get away! You definitely don't give in to them! So you are hungry? So she tells you about the drugs and how they will affect you? So what? They gave them to you! If they want you to eat, DON"T give you drugs that will make you sick!!! I wish Jack had not given in, especially that quickly! I would have made them force me to eat first. I would not have made it easy for them to break me. Cause at least I would hold on to that. They really would have had to force me. That or just have given in right away. If Jack was that angry and stubborn, he really did cave pretty quickly!
I think you missed part of the point of that scene. Jack wouldn't be able to swim out because a) its an aquarium so there's an assload of water and b) it would be infested with sharks eventually and I'm sure not even our amazing Jack could swim past those.

I think you missed part of the point of that scene. Jack wouldn't be able to swim out because a) its an aquarium so there's an assload of water and b) it would be infested with sharks eventually and I'm sure not even our amazing Jack could swim past those.

Oh, were they under a lake? I didn't know there was a lake! I thought this was under the ocean and was where that cable went. But either way, outside would have lead to the surface, and possibly freedom. And most of all, if he is that stubborn, why not? He opened the door, he should have gone through. The pressure would have equalized at some point and he would have been able to get out. I mean if they can have all the crazy stuff that has happened on that show...the many single perfect blows to the head to knock people out - that don't leave any bruises or permenant brain damage....then he could have waited till the pressure equalized and swam out!

Huh? when things are boring and moving slowly they would seem to take longer not shorter. Things that are exciting and fast paced goes by quicker which would make the ads seem more frequent.

I could be wrong.:redface:

LOL...I guess what I mean is, as I tried to get into the episode and as I waited for something good to happen the commercials seemed to interrupt, after which we would see the same thing Jack stuck, Sawyer in a cage...Kate eating...etc...etc...I guess the commercials make all the weakness of the episode more obvious. Since nothing new happened between commercials there was nothing new to think about and to ponder...

:ohwell:

I think we did get a quarter of an episode... to many comercials and not much really going on... I hope next week is better!!here I was thinking it was about a third of an episode! I guess I was more generous!

Please please please TBTB pick up the glacial pace. This sloooooow pacing in the island scenes does not make the scenes more dramatic because we see Jack's expression for that many seconds. The flashback pacing is fine and things happen with a sense of urgency, which only makes it worse when we return to the present and sloooowly he turns sloooowly and then sloooowly someone else has an expression and sloooowly replies.

Seriously, I was so put off I was counting how many seconds it took per response in the Jack interrogation scenes. I'm sure the first season wasn't like this or I'd never have gotten hooked. The "stretching it out" is just palpable and I've no doubt that both this content and the entire rescue episode from next week could have been covered in one broadcast hour if we didn't spend so much time ogling Kate in a pretty dress and building "suspense" whether her shower scene would be sexy (answer: no).

As for the behavioral modification experimentation, I get it; it's not necessary to spend so much time spelling it out, as that type of psychological gaming is old hat and we're all familiar with it.

I don't care if I'm showered with answers at this point because I've given up on the "mysteries" angle and looking for clues after last season let me down with inconsistencies. Now I want to be entertained by these fine actors and I at least want some snappy patter and a lot of action that makes me go WHOA DUDE! DID THAT JUST HAPPEN?

My DVR progress bar says it all. I watched while recording, maybe 10 minutes behind real time, which meant I could FF through commercials and SEE on the display that 50% of the episode had passed and almost nothing had happened since the opening scene which I loved. It's almost as if TPTB have decided whenever Jack/Kate/Sawyer are on screen the fans are happy just to have them on screen. Yes they are all eye candy and compelling visually and I enjoy their characters, but no need for the camera to dwell on them in all these static shots.

Truly, after the opening scene this was paced with dialogue delivery timed like a daytime soap. I don't watch daytime soaps.

I was NOT happy that the hatch explosion aftermath wasn't shown and that the entire rest of the cast didn't appear. My brain is quite capable of handling multiple storylines --Others, rescuers, camp, Hatch, bring it all on!

This episode didn't really feel like lost at all. There is a certain feel to an episode of lost, there is mystery, comedy, and suspense. This episode held few of those and I was close to being bored with it.

That being said I still liked it and I'm not quitting watching anytime soon

I thought the begining was interesting to see 'the others' reaction to the plane crash and 'henry' or Ben... whatever his name was.... sending Ethan and Goodwin out. But other than that... it was incredibly predictable. It was practically the same thing they did last season

Yep, well said.

The first five minutes were OK, although the fact that the brutally evil Others have been leading what appears to be a rather ordinary and mundane existence openly on the island was a pretty big let down.

Not only does it make Danielle and Kelvin appear to be a couple of the worst explorers ever (they spent years exploring and mapping the island and somehow never stumbled on the irredeemably evil Others track-home community), but it also crystallizes and validates one of the chief complains of the first two seasons of Lost: that the Lostaways never explored the island.

Now we know why: Because they could have easily stumbled upon the unquestionably evil Others community. So TPTB were withholding information and making characters have an impossibly unrealistic lack of curiosity not out of necessity of the plot line, but because they were trying to artificially pro-long the life of the series.

Weak.

Also, I liked that we saw how the cold-blooded murderess Goodwin and Ethan were dispatched to infiltrate and brutally attack the Lostways and tailies, but we have yet another mystery solved via flashback (ala Claire's kidnapping, Michael's island jaunt, etc.) told via flashback instead of as it's happening (way to ramp down the tension guys). Kate's apparent trauma in between the breakfast and her reunion with Sawyer figures to be another one of those "we know it just happened but we'll tell you about it much, much later" plot lines Lost is now famous for.

Other than that, like you said, the episode was entirely predictable and B.O.R.I.N.G. All we need is for one of those hovering orbs to float around and we have the Prisoner. Blech.

I wish Jack would stop crying like a 10 year old girl every time somebody brings up his ex-wife.

I wonder if he's crying because of the alimony settlement ?

The scene between Kate/an Fenry was such a cliche of the evil baddy taking the captured heroine to supper before torturing/maiming her boyfriend. Might have been more interesting if it had been played out with one of the male leads. Kate is tough. Seeing her captured and held like the typical romance novel heroine just bored me.

It showed TPTB have seen Raiders of the Lost Ark. Kate as Marion. Henry as Belloq. Terrible.
100%

I have been waiting since the end of Season 1 for Sawyer to give 'Zeke' his come-uppance. I've been waiting for Sayid to finally get his hands on one of the others and really let them have it (although he did torture Ben, it was fruitless, didn't yield anything, and was probably part of Ben's plan anyway).

Our 'heroes' are incompetent fools who can't defend themselves. The consistantly lose every confrontation with the Others. I realize that this is because they are at a distinct disadvantage, but if they continue to lose, fail, and get humiliated, it becomes harder and harder for me to really get behind them. They're just not 'fighters'. I'm waiting for them to finally kick some ***, and I just don't think they ever will. They just keep getting 'owned'. It's no fun pulling for a chronic loser.

We have nothing to 'cheer' about! No moments of triumph! No nothing.

You said it, Vert. And is there any hope that future confrontations will end differently? Once the protagonists have been beaten down and outsmarted over and over again, you not only stop looking forward to the eventual pay-off, you stop looking forward to the confrontations themselves. This is yet another example of TPTB sucking the drama and tension out of the show in order to pro-long the show itself.

Next week's preview had gunfire back and forth between the Losties and the Others. Do you care?

I will say though, I think next week's episode has Big Gay Zeek getting killed off. (And I think Sun is the one who does it.) Just my hunch.

the 5 mins i could not breathe it was great i was like hyperventalating. lol my mom got scared and then after that i was like...jacks in a tank saywer and kate are in cages big whoop.

I love the replies in this thread. Interesting how the Eh thread is jam-packed with intelligent commentary!

Speaking of the parallels with last season's opener ... yes, thanks for making me realize it went beyond the music and a solitary person ...

Second season made the same move:
We're expecting a revelation in the hatch that could be of the supernatural, or aliens, what have you. We get a man doing mundane stuff like making a smoothie, showering, exercising. Demystifying and ordinary almost ... but we wonder at finding the ordinary in this weird isolated spot. Desmond then seems like a psycho but turns out to be a tortured soul himself ... Desmond turns into my favorite Lostaway.

This season, the Others' go from inscrutable to ordinary muffin-baking book club attending folks. Except they're also vicious, or at least some of them are. Unlike Desmond, they aren't sympathetic. Julia/Juliet begins that way, but once she walks away from Jack after promising to feed him she loses that quality.

This season we're supposed to learn more about the Others. Too bad I don't CARE about the Others. I don't care about Utopian communities gone wrong or socio-psychological experimentation done in the 70's. Danielle and Desmond were provocative additions to the island. These guys just suck. The tailies were the other big reveal last season. They sucked too -- except for Eko.

Jack/Kate/Sawyer don't want to be back in camp half as much as I do. I miss Sayid, Desmond, Hurley, Locke, Eko, Sun, Jin, Danielle, Claire, and even Creepy Charlie (though I wish Creepy Charlie would let the old Charlie come back and stop acting like some controlling alter-ego out of the Shining.)

It was way too hyped up in my opinion.

I saw all the commericals ranting about how the first five minutes were going to be 'breathtaking'. I really didn't see how it was. The only thing I really found surprising in the first five minutes was the village the Other's were situated in. Other than that though, the first five minutes was a downer. Didn't they do this last year too?

I thought it would have been nice to see some looks at the LOSTie's beach as well, see how they were coping. (To see if Desmond, Eko, and Locke are alright after the incident)

But still, great episode overall. Can't wait till next week.

I am really disappointed in this episode.

Last season wasn't all that great, but it didn't really kill (at least for me) the underlying plot of Lost, and that is the idea that they are "lost".

The "amazing first 5 minutes" were enough to get me wondering why I want to watch this show anymore. It turns out that there's electricity on this island, there's modern conveniences (well, plumbing and cd players, as well as apparantly multiple copies of multiple books - at least enough to have a book club), and it would seem the Others have at least semi-regular contact with the outside world.

So all that the survivors need to do is somehow figure out how the Others are contacting the outside world, and do it themselves (or die trying). But they're too stupid to acccomplish this feat, based on what we have been shown.

They're just no longer "lost". So Lost is, well, sort of uninteresting.

French chick hasn't reallly explored the island much at all in her decade + of being there. Desmond hasn't, either. And the Others, who seem almost all-knowing, didn't realize how Desmond got there (apparantly don't know how the Lostaways got a boat in next week's episode).

I admit I was very cautious, sort of expecting last night to be bad, based on things that happened last season, such as the complete pointlessness of Anna-Lucia and Libby as characters that had any development at all, just to be killed stupidly, and stupidly quick. Other than Ecko, the Tailies were hopelessly uninteresting. Locke seemed to get sort of ruined last season (too dramatic of a change of character from the strong, spiritual one to a weak-minded loser). Jack...well there's just too much Jack backstory that's all the same. After last season, I was pretty much left with Sayid, Ecko, Sawyer and Claire as characters I sort of cared about anymore. Last night didn't help me much on the Sawyer front, and the other three weren't shown.

Add that nothing really happened after the intro last night (that I saw, I admit I drifted in and out of paying attention as I was pretty bored), and I don't know what can be done to keep me interested in this show.

But to boil it down, what last night eliminated for me was the idea that I liked the most about the show - that they were crashed on a strange, almost otherworldly and mysterious island. Polar bear? Black smoke? Strange visions (Kate's horse). Walt appearing to Boone's sister? Too many inconsistancies, too many dropped plotlines for me.

Lost just isn't really "lost" anymore.

Remember the Others from the first season? Remember when they actually inspired terror and conjurged up images of the survivors fighting these savages just to stay alive? The more we see of the Others, the less frightening they are. Something better happen in the two weeks that Henry Gale was talking about to make it seem like they are actually somewhat of a threat.

The connections between the outside world and the Island have to stop. This is probably the biggest danger for the show going under.

Was anyone else annoyed by that shot where they were dragging Sawyer back to his cage? Leaving Sawyer's head static in the center of the shot while the background was moving about didn't really fit with the usual style.

For the season opener, this episode was not too exciting. If I wasn't hooked on Lost already, I don't know if this would have made me want to watch again if this was my 1st episode. There was too much Jack, and I missed seeing the other characters. Everything was so dragged out. When Jack was trying to open the door, instead of directly saying they were underwater, Ben and Juliet just kept telling him not to open the door or we'll all die. Was this just the writer's attempt to get some suspense in the episode? Not working.
Of course, I'll keep watching though in the hopes that things improve, and that we''ll get to see what happened to the other characters.

I agree so much pibbsneaker! I miss the days when 'the others' were only a whisper and a looming potenital threat. I also think the more I see them, the less I like them. They were better (and to me more interesting) as savages or "animals" as they were called by Charlie and Ana.

I'm gald I'm not the only one who misses the castaways being "Lost". You put that very well, Brickyard. It's not the same now that they have technology and access to food, books and music. Those are supossed to be luguries that they have to learn to live without. I didn't like it from when we started to see a good view of the hatch and I like it even less now that people are living in everyday houses.

Well, I'll remain optimistic and hope it gets better... But, just as a side-note, Please remember to put anything from next week in spoiler font. I find Lost more enjoyabe when I go in blind and would really appreciate it. Thanks! :smile:

After the extreme letdown of last season's finale, I told myself that I wouldn't watch Lost anymore. Obviously, I lied. Curse my inability to not care how something ends.

I was hoping that the series would redeem itself with this season's premiere, but no such luck. The show is turning into more and more of a soap opera, i.e. nothing really happens in each episode. It just seems like they're drawing everything out to keep the show on the air longer. Utter confusion and disjointedness doesn't make something suspenseful. It just makes it irritating.

I completely agree. And I am getting a little tired of all the flashbacks. Seriously what was the point to give us all the background on Jack? That was at least half of the episode. The only thing I found interesting was the first minute and a half when it showed where the others lived because we actually got a good look at how big the island kind of is. But all-in-all I completely agree with you!

This season, the Others' go from inscrutable to ordinary muffin-baking book club attending folks. Except they're also vicious, or at least some of them are. Unlike Desmond, they aren't sympathetic. Julia/Juliet begins that way, but once she walks away from Jack after promising to feed him she loses that quality.


Just a quick thing here - she wasn't walking away from Jack after promising to feed him. She was doing exactly what she said she was going to do. Jack sat with his back against the wall, and she went out into the hallway to go to the door to his room. I made the same mistake thinking she just tricked him, because I thought she was talking about some door in the glass wall, but what she was saying was "You sit over there, and I'll leave this room, go out in the hall, and come into your room through the side door", and she did just that. It's just that the way they editted the scenes it looks like she just leaves. But she immediately comes back in through his door. So she really was bringing him his food right away.

But I've seen a lot of people here make that same mistake. Poor editting.

I also think that the reason they started season 3 the way they did (showing the "others" camp and how they lived) they are setting us up to start giving us backgrounds on the others and their stories. Maybe not where they came from or how they got there but just some background info (maybe after they get to the island). just a thought. I am probably completely wrong...lol.

This episode was, yeah, above average at best while watching (thaks for the show between all the frickin commercials ABC), but many of you are complaining about the same wrong things that people have been complaining about since, well, if not the beginning of the show, very shortly thereafter. Namely, the lack of answers. Seriously, it just bugs the you-know-what out of me to hear people whine about this topic. There are relevant complaints to be made about the episode, I felt that the slow pacing did not match well with the choppiness caused by so many commercials, and that Jack's flashback just didn't have much to it. It was good that it showed him in an unhinged, antagonistic light, but it just didn't have much substacne plot-wise. Sarah and Jack, however, as always, just bring out the best acting in each other. Amazing. Thinking back on hte pacing, I would not have chosen the slow episode for the season premiere, I think its self-defeating in a way, b/c even though the episode was good, one goes into the premiere with a certain expectation, and no matter what the show turns out to be, if it does meet that one expectation, the viewing experience (at least the initial one) is kind of ruined. On the other hand, have some of you not yet learned to just never EXPECT answers, and just wait for them to come when they will?
100%

But I've seen a lot of people here make that same mistake. Poor editting.

Poor viewer cmprehension. also, her name is Juliet. And his name is BEN, not Benry. *shudder* Some of you people...

I just ask that they de-emphasize the flashbacks this season. They've run their course. Stick to the island action.

Does anyone know if this is a realistic possibility?

First off, If someone asked me to describe this Season Premiere in one Word it
Would be BORING.
Ok the First Bit with the Others Suberbia was Ok.
But after that it was all downhill.
For a Season Opener this was just Bad. And will cost them viewers.
And to much Jack.
Most of the time the Flashbacks tell us a story, or give us insight to the Character.
But telling Us Jack's Wife left him for another Man. And Jack had Daddy issues with his Drunk Father. Is just Old and already Done.
The Few spots with Sawyer and Kate where the Highlights. (And they were not that Great)
I know everyone will Say they Gave us Some Anwsers.
Where the Other live. Wow ! That just brings up more Problems.
Why has no one stumbled upon there little Corner of the Island. I mean come-on Danielle has been scouting the Island for 16 years and she never came across the houses??
And The first 2 years the Others were portrayed as mystical whispers.
Kidnappers, Evil murderers.
Now there in Book clubs and baking Muffins.
And since the were getting food drops we already know they have contact with the outside world.
The show has just lost it's mystery, Marooned on an Island with Polar Bears and Smoke Monsters Appeal.
And this episode Might have been better if they had shown us The other Losties or More action or Something of Real Interest...

This episode was, yeah, above average at best while watching (thaks for the show between all the frickin commercials ABC), but many of you are complaining about the same wrong things that people have been complaining about since, well, if not the beginning of the show, very shortly thereafter. Namely, the lack of answers. Seriously, it just bugs the you-know-what out of me to hear people whine about this topic. (...) On the other hand, have some of you not yet learned to just never EXPECT answers, and just wait for them to come when they will?
100%

It's not just about getting answers. I stopped caring about those halfway through season two.

It's just that when the answers are being postponed indefinitely, some of the characters become inplausible. And yeah, that's irritating.

The Others are smart, they have the upper hand on what happens on the island, they have the technology... and they keep going after whatever it is they want from the Losties in the most roundabout ways possible.

Yeah, this leaves the door open to some interesting character interaction, but when all they do for the entire season is act cryptic, the novelty wears out after a while. Any interest in their motives becomes hollow.

The big revelation in the finale will probably be something most people here have speculated about since they saw the hatch. And the why might just be brought up in season five. In between, the show will most likely rely on character development to keep things interesting. And, historically speaking, character development on Lost means going around in the same old circles. The only new thing in season three is that they'll probably cater to shippers more than in the first two seasons.

Yep, well said.

The first five minutes were OK, although the fact that the brutally evil Others have been leading what appears to be a rather ordinary and mundane existence openly on the island was a pretty big let down.

Not only does it make Danielle and Kelvin appear to be a couple of the worst explorers ever (they spent years exploring and mapping the island and somehow never stumbled on the irredeemably evil Others track-home community), but it also crystallizes and validates one of the chief complains of the first two seasons of Lost: that the Lostaways never explored the island.

Now we know why: Because they could have easily stumbled upon the unquestionably evil Others community. So TPTB were withholding information and making characters have an impossibly unrealistic lack of curiosity not out of necessity of the plot line, but because they were trying to artificially pro-long the life of the series.

Weak.

Also, I liked that we saw how the cold-blooded murderess Goodwin and Ethan were dispatched to infiltrate and brutally attack the Lostways and tailies, but we have yet another mystery solved via flashback (ala Claire's kidnapping, Michael's island jaunt, etc.) told via flashback instead of as it's happening (way to ramp down the tension guys). Kate's apparent trauma in between the breakfast and her reunion with Sawyer figures to be another one of those "we know it just happened but we'll tell you about it much, much later" plot lines Lost is now famous for.

Other than that, like you said, the episode was entirely predictable and B.O.R.I.N.G. All we need is for one of those hovering orbs to float around and we have the Prisoner. Blech.



What can I say that all of you didn't already say. What was the purpose of Danielle and Kelvin exploring the island when the Others are in a little utopian community, and are in comunicato with the outside world. I really believe that this show is threading into SHARK waters. It seems to me that the first episode of this season, negates most of what we were led to believe about the first 2 seasons. It seems to me that they are looking for a plausible explanation to everything, but in the meantime TPTB are shooting themselves in the four toed feet. I found myself distracted by other things, while the show was playing. BORING is the word.

This episode was, yeah, above average at best while watching (thaks for the show between all the frickin commercials ABC), but many of you are complaining about the same wrong things that people have been complaining about since, well, if not the beginning of the show, very shortly thereafter. Namely, the lack of answers. Seriously, it just bugs the you-know-what out of me to hear people whine about this topic. There are relevant complaints to be made about the episode, I felt that the slow pacing did not match well with the choppiness caused by so many commercials, and that Jack's flashback just didn't have much to it. It was good that it showed him in an unhinged, antagonistic light, but it just didn't have much substacne plot-wise. Sarah and Jack, however, as always, just bring out the best acting in each other. Amazing. Thinking back on hte pacing, I would not have chosen the slow episode for the season premiere, I think its self-defeating in a way, b/c even though the episode was good, one goes into the premiere with a certain expectation, and no matter what the show turns out to be, if it does meet that one expectation, the viewing experience (at least the initial one) is kind of ruined. On the other hand, have some of you not yet learned to just never EXPECT answers, and just wait for them to come when they will?
100%
Poor viewer cmprehension. also, her name is Juliet. And his name is BEN, not Benry. *shudder* Some of you people...
Please, a little respect for your fellow 'Lagers...and if you had more experience on The Fuselage than your 26 posts might suggest, you'd know that "Benry" is a nickname derived from "Henry" and "Ben".

*shudder*

This episode was, yeah, above average at best while watching (thaks for the show between all the frickin commercials ABC), but many of you are complaining about the same wrong things that people have been complaining about since, well, if not the beginning of the show, very shortly thereafter. Namely, the lack of answers. Seriously, it just bugs the you-know-what out of me to hear people whine about this topic. There are relevant complaints to be made about the episode, I felt that the slow pacing did not match well with the choppiness caused by so many commercials, and that Jack's flashback just didn't have much to it. It was good that it showed him in an unhinged, antagonistic light, but it just didn't have much substacne plot-wise. Sarah and Jack, however, as always, just bring out the best acting in each other. Amazing. Thinking back on hte pacing, I would not have chosen the slow episode for the season premiere, I think its self-defeating in a way, b/c even though the episode was good, one goes into the premiere with a certain expectation, and no matter what the show turns out to be, if it does meet that one expectation, the viewing experience (at least the initial one) is kind of ruined. On the other hand, have some of you not yet learned to just never EXPECT answers, and just wait for them to come when they will?
100%


Poor viewer cmprehension. also, her name is Juliet. And his name is BEN, not Benry. *shudder* Some of you people...

A couple of things. One...you are posting in a thread dedicated for those who thought the episode ranked below average and is a safe haven for them to vent about it without defending themselves. We have another thread dedicated for those who loved the show.

Two...some of your remarks are rude toward other posters. "Some of you people"? Others have the same right you do to opinions so I ask you respect that. Please read the site rules regarding posting on this site.

Thank you...

Great opening, went downhill a bit.

Jack came across REALLY nutso.

I think they could have given us a little more meat in the story, seemed like a really quick episode too.

We deserved a 2 hour opening.

As with any mystery, whether good or bad, the mystery must come to an end. It's just the way it goes. We shouldn't be upset that they "mystery" of it all is coming to an end, afterall, last season we were screaming for more answers...you are getting answers, so what's all the fuss about? OH...that's right, they aren't going where you thought they were going. Well, if they did go where you thought they were going, you'd be complaining that the show was predictable. Sit back...enjoy the ride and you may find that you actually enjoy the story they are trying to tell about these characters that were brought together in a very odd situation.

As with any mystery, whether good or bad, the mystery must come to an end. It's just the way it goes. We shouldn't be upset that they "mystery" of it all is coming to an end, afterall, last season we were screaming for more answers...you are getting answers, so what's all the fuss about? OH...that's right, they aren't going where you thought they were going. Well, if they did go where you thought they were going, you'd be complaining that the show was predictable. Sit back...enjoy the ride and you may find that you actually enjoy the story they are trying to tell about these characters that were brought together in a very odd situation.

I gather you didn't read my last post just a few back...

You are in the wrong section. This section is for people who did not like the episode not for people who liked it. In this thread...people can vent without debate from the other side.

In this section...They have the right to express a thought without having to justify it to someone who disagrees.

Are we all clear on this now? The next reported post from this section will be sent to a UMOD to decide if points are warranted.

Well, the ratings are in. Roughly 5 million less viewers watched the season three premiere versus season two. Hope that is a wake up call to TPTB, because they hemorrhaged viewers all season long after that, and if that is repeated this year, there will be less then 15 million viewers watching the season 3 finale. As we all seem to agree, the premiere did nothing to re-new our faith in the show. Does the ratings slide kind of validate our criticisms?

Unlike previous years, I had no interest in reading anything about this season, I went into the premiere totally blind, and was completely under whelmed. There is no use in listing the reasons why because they are all mentioned here. If you read some of the other more enthusiastic topics, those are the viewers TPTB are trying to hold on to and make happy, not the ones critical of their direction and intentions of the show. Why? Because we ask the impossible...to make some sense of what we have been seeing and hearing on LOST for the past two seasons, intelligently.

Well, the ratings are in. Roughly 5 million less viewers watched the season three premiere versus season two. Hope that is a wake up call to TPTB, because they hemorrhaged viewers all season long after that, and if that is repeated this year, there will be less then 15 million viewers watching the season 3 finale. As we all seem to agree, the premiere did nothing to re-new our faith in the show. Does the ratings slide kind of validate our criticisms?
Is five million a lot, though, in the big scheme of things? I have no idea...

And while I'm definitely one of now disillusioned Lost viewers who thinks the emperor may have no clothes, I'm not sure that it's entirely accurate to say that Lost hemorrhaged viewers all last season. Thoughts?

Well, the ratings are in. Roughly 5 million less viewers watched the season three premiere versus season two. Hope that is a wake up call to TPTB, because they hemorrhaged viewers all season long after that, and if that is repeated this year, there will be less then 15 million viewers watching the season 3 finale. As we all seem to agree, the premiere did nothing to re-new our faith in the show. Does the ratings slide kind of validate our criticisms? I certainly think so. But I have to concede that at least part of the dwindling of viewers has to be due to the fact that when the show started, it was an extremely broad canvas the writers had to work with - they had TONS of potential, the story could go in a million different directions, and was very open-ended. Now that two full seasons have passed, lots of doors have closed in terms of possibilities, plots have been dropped, characters died... many of the viewers were probably thinking the show would go one way, but it went another. Answers came, and some viewers didn't like those answers. So they're not watching any more. When the answers can be limitless, so can your audience. But when you answers are out in the open, some people just won't like them.

My point here being - this was probably going to happen no matter what direction they took the show. If they had chosen to write the show in a way that would have pleased me the most, the show would be losing a lot of the viewers who want more shots of half-dressed Sawyer and more 'ships', and more flashback info.

So I think the show was bound to lose viewers once the answers started coming (which is probably why they're so hesitant to let the answers flow... the more we know, the more there is to dislike).

But in my opinion, they could have made this show something really special by following the island mysteries and myths rather than investing SO much time (extremely unbalanced time) on the character development. That's what I don't like. Every episode the audience is guaranteed that at least 40% of the show will focus on one character in their flashbacks, and at least some of the island time on them, too. So for those who love the character development, each and every episode satisfies them. But for those who love the mysteries and the island's quirks, we can go 5 or 6 episodes without any progress or even mention of them. We're guaranteed nothing, and seldom get anything. If they had better balance, I think they would be losing fewer viewers.

Unlike previous years, I had no interest in reading anything about this season, I went into the premiere totally blind, and was completely under whelmed.

Agreed. After the season finale, I left this board and didn't think about Lost until I started seeing advertisements for the premiere a few weeks ago. I only returned to this board last week some time.

If you read some of the other more enthusiastic topics, those are the viewers TPTB are trying to hold on to and make happy, not the ones critical of their direction and intentions of the show. Why? Because we ask the impossible...to make some sense of what we have been seeing and hearing on LOST for the past two seasons, intelligently. We also ask for more than just 'ships' and half-naked actors. I'd be happy if no one ever 'hooked up', but whatever.

For myself it seems to me that when half the shows are flashbacks, they are filler episodes. something to fill the lack of progression of the stories. Just my opinion.

I think everyone has done a great job converying the collective disappointment with this episode. I'm not sure what I can add but wanted to put another voice in the call for a better season.

To ABC: The timing of the commercials was really annoying. After each and every scene? C'mon. Break the episodes up into more substantial chunks.

I'm not sure I'll even bother to watch the next episode, really. I didn't find much in this one to compell me to stay tuned this season. If the premiere is as exciting and interesting as the season gets, this does not bode well for the series. I'm curious about what happened to the hatch crew but, after this episode, I can wait until the DVD or look for an episode recap.

cheers.

Not only does it make Danielle and Kelvin appear to be a couple of the worst explorers ever (they spent years exploring and mapping the island and somehow never stumbled on the irredeemably evil Others track-home community), but it also crystallizes and validates one of the chief complains of the first two seasons of Lost: that the Lostaways never explored the island.

Now we know why: Because they could have easily stumbled upon the unquestionably evil Others community. So TPTB were withholding information and making characters have an impossibly unrealistic lack of curiosity not out of necessity of the plot line, but because they were trying to artificially pro-long the life of the series.

Weak.



That's why Season 2 was so bad. Characters were curious one moment so as to lead us to a doorway or question and then behaved as though it had never happened, leaving us hanging there with nowhere to go. Locke's spiritual, knowledgable and then flips when Ben taunts him over Jack. Locke wants people to share, to be included and then he tells no one about the map etc.
Jack is intelligent, caring...then acts as dumb as Dumber when something obvious sits infront of him.

The whole thing is geared to proloning Lost for several seasons when it should be entering it's final season now. A 3 season classic to leave viewers debating it's merits for years to come.

Now we'll have an episode of Hurley trudging back to the mess at the beach ( Charlie still sat there telling jokes whilst Locke and Eko hobble past, bleeding to death ) and in a few episodes time 18 things will happen at once - the timing, the tempo of the show has gone out of the window.

For myself it seems to me that when half the shows are flashbacks, they are filler episodes. something to fill the lack of progression of the stories. Just my opinion.

That's mostly all they are - Help explain the reasons why a character is behaving like he is in real time on the island, even if it is painstakingly obvious / completely the opposite to his previous actions whilst throwing in a number, another connection to keep the addicts happy.

I keep saying it but a huge moment in Season 1 was Sawyer telling Jack about his father.
Where are all the other conversations ? We're into season 3 and yet we've had very few conversations approaching that one, no hint of any of the connections being discovered.

And in this episode, we suddenly see discover that Jack has had Dharma on his mind, he's been thinking about it - so why in 2 seasons did he do nothing to discover what was on the island ?

Once again more great posts here are helping me figure out why my resposnse was blah, sorry if I haven't got your names attached to each post but I'd like to reinforce some of them.

Tal,
Like you I didn't watch the premiere for answers as I already gave up on that in Season 2. I watched hoping for a classically entertaining episode. I figure with all summer to prepare a premiere it will be worth watching. Like some others, I ignored any hype or PR about it and watched with no inflated expectations. Just gave it a 100% chance to grab me, started to feel it until the first scene ended, then fizzle.

Someone mentioned sitting back and enjoying the ride. I know that post was warned and I'm not debating the poster, rather agreeing that I would be happy to do that. Here I am, unconcerned with answers, yet I didn't enjoy the ride on this story. Why not?

As said above, it didn't have a satisfying story arc. It was a tale of defeat. They "borrowed" from Raiders of the Lost Ark" but forgot to borrow the joy, cleverness, and ingenuity of those protagonists, who always found a way to get out of a scrape. It felt "stuck." There was no ride. Their plight and the rescue attempt should have been combined into one episode. Each episode needs a satisfying story arc.

As has been pointed out, beyond being slow, it was dark and full of cruelty. The dark interior was one reason I didn't notice the configuration Vertical nicely pointed out. I didn't care to pay attention to the details of the layout. In the past I've been so engaged I would go back and slo-mo all the details, but not this time. The hero is in a dark subterranean box, and there aren't even any snakes! Boring. No snakes.

I have had enough of the torture theme. Back in Season One, Sayid tortured Sawyer and it was shocking. There was a point to that, though, a real moral crossroads was presented. Now the tone is borderline sadistic, almost S&M with the cages, handcuffs, chains, domination, and Fenry's still bruised face. While there's an audience for S&M ... it's not for everybody. With Kate's 2 weeks before her, looks like we can expect more. Ugh. Unless we understand the motivations of the Others more, and quickly, this will just come off as gratuitous cruelty.

Flashbacks -- I'm one who enjoys flashbacks but they need to tell a story, and that story needs an arc as well. It should parallel what's developing in the island plot. The Jack story did the second thing: both plots were depressing, repetetive, and showed him being stuck and irrational. In this instance the parallel wasn't a good thing.

Good flashbacks have some sort of revelation. Here we already had most of the story, except for the involvement of Jack's dad, but the answer wasn't anything interesting. If Christian had been involved with Sara, that would have been soap opera but at least something driving the plot.

Instead, yet another marriage ends because a professional consumed with work doesn't have what it takes in emotional presence to fulfill his partner. Ho hum. Every single doctor/lawyer/cop show on TV has at least one relationship with this issue. She didn't leave because the other guy was so great; she left because you weren't there for her. Why would the writers expect this cliche theme to grab the audience, especially when we already learned this in an earlier backstory?

The only titillation left for me after the last Jack/Sarah flashback, was the possibility this other guy could be someone who ties into the shadowy forces that brought Jack to the island. Now we are told there was nothing worth knowing about him ... that does not merit an entiere episode, certainly not the premiere.

I did enjoy Matthew Fox's acting! His charisma and intensity with the other actors was all that made me watch. The writers are relying too much on the charismatic qualities of this great cast, forgetting to give them substance to chew on.

When it comes down to it, if the episode, as a stand alone hour of television, had provided solid entertainment, I wouldn't be here picking it apart. There's a trade-off when the creative team continually chooses to pose more questions and then moves on and never comes back to them. That is they are starting to lose viewers who were watching to find out what it's all about, or the viewers who remain are starting to accept the answers will be few and far between.

Now a fair share of that obsessive audience isn't obsessing any more, TPTB have more of a job to do to keep the viewers coming back every week. They had better provide some kick *** writing: well-crafted original satisfying plotting, a snappy pace, memorable dialogue, engaging visuals.

You only get an audience that will tune in automatically as long as you deliver, and then maybe a grace period while the disillusioned still hope for a turnaround. This premiere was a huge opportunity for redemption and they wasted it.

Well, the ratings are in. Roughly 5 million less viewers watched the season three premiere versus season two. Hope that is a wake up call to TPTB, because they hemorrhaged viewers all season long after that, and if that is repeated this year, there will be less then 15 million viewers watching the season 3 finale. As we all seem to agree, the premiere did nothing to re-new our faith in the show. Does the ratings slide kind of validate our criticisms?

Actually if ratings fall as they did a year ago (from from an astounding 23.5 million for the season premiere to less than 15 for the second to last episode before bumping up just under 18 million for the season finale), then Lost will finish the season with fewer than 10 million viewers (i.e., Lost will shed a about 33% of its audience over the course of the season before enjoying a mild bump for the finale).

As it is Lost's ratings picked up at virtually the same level of last season's finale (which is also about 5 million fewer than last season's finale as you point out), so it will be interesting to see what the ratings look like this year and whether Lost really does fall to those levels.

To answer your question though, I don't necessarily know if the decline in ratings reflect our criticisms (although it is certainly my personal opinion that they do), but they do reflect a lack of interest (i.e., viewers, for one reason or another, are tuning out).

Are viewers less interested because of a lack of answers, or too much convoluted mythology, or too many filler episodes, or because of the glacial pace, or because TPTB have ruined certain characters? Or are they just being pulled away because other shows are more interesting? Without a real scientific poll it's pretty hard to say definitively.

Actually if ratings fall as they did a year ago (from from an astounding 23.5 million for the season premiere to less than 15 for the second to last episode before bumping up just under 18 million for the season finale), then Lost will finish the season with fewer than 10 million viewers (i.e., Lost will shed a about 33% of its audience over the course of the season before enjoying a mild bump for the finale).

As it is Lost's ratings picked up at virtually the same level of last season's finale (which is also about 5 million fewer than last season's finale as you point out), so it will be interesting to see what the ratings look like this year and whether Lost really does fall to those levels.

To answer your question though, I don't necessarily know if the decline in ratings reflect our criticisms (although it is certainly my personal opinion that they do), but they do reflect a lack of interest (i.e., viewers, for one reason or another, are tuning out).

Are viewers less interested because of a lack of answers, or too much convoluted mythology, or too many filler episodes, or because of the glacial pace, or because TPTB have ruined certain characters? Or are they just being pulled away because other shows are more interesting? Without a real scientific poll it's pretty hard to say definitively.



You bring up good points. I think that most viewers don't like convoluted mythology or too many filler episodes. The flashbacks when done right does progress the story. In Lost's case I think because of the frequent usage of it, it doesn't progress the story. In fact, in my opinion it alienates the viewer. Some viewers don't like to watch things that make them think a lot. I think people watch tv as a form of mindless entertainment after coming home from a hard days work.

Not only does it make Danielle and Kelvin appear to be a couple of the worst explorers ever (they spent years exploring and mapping the island and somehow never stumbled on the irredeemably evil Others track-home community), but it also crystallizes and validates one of the chief complains of the first two seasons of Lost: that the Lostaways never explored the island.

How do you expect Kelvin to explore the entire island when he only has 108 minutes before the button needs to be pushed? Judging from the opening scene, there is a HUGE distance between the Othersville and the Swan station; at least a day's walk.

As for Danielle, there is a thread somewhere on the ‘Lage that shows her maps. In it she has mapped out the crater (supposedly, the location of Othersville). Who are we to judge what she actually knows and doesn't? That woman certainly knows a lot when it comes to the island, but she chooses to stay quiet instead. Also, considering the fact that we only ever get to see Danielle once or twice each season, means that we know little about her. Unit we see her flashback, she is just as mysterious as the Others, if not more.
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Sorry, it seems like we can't edit our posts. I meant to say "Until we see her..."

On word: BORING.

I had hoped TPTB would give us a great premiere and was completely underwhelmed. The premiere had 5 MILLION fewer viewers than last season's premiere?! WAKE UP Damon, Carlton and JJ. Fans aren't watching for reasons that could be found all along in these "Eh, could have been better" threads. Quit kidding yourselves and quit kidding us- it looks like the emperor has NO CLOTHES.

Meanwhile, JJ has gone off to start up a couple more shows to ruin (ahem, Alias). Who trusts this guy at this point to follow though on anything he starts? Can he make a show that doesn't spiral into complete crap?

Lost looks more and more likely to join the ranks of what I like to call the "Axis of Disappointment". Namely, Twin Peaks, The X-Files and Alias.


So come on TBTB, let's lose more viewers! Let's kill Lost this season and not prolong the agony!

Give us more pointless repetetive flashbacks!

Make the characters more stupid and less curious.

Introduce more characters so everyone has even less screen time! I don't want to see Hurley until season 6 and Sayid until season 9! Drag this mother out!

SLOW DOWN the pace! Do not develop any plot.This glacier is moving too fast.

Introduce more plotlines and then drop them (Anyone remember Adam and Eve from season 1? How about the black and white stones? The ocean cable? I could go on and on and on.)

Forget the love triangle. I want to see a love hexagon! And please, get some more plot ideas from soap operas. I want to see Kate pregnant to her Mother's brother's college room mate who just happens to be Hanso's uncle's great grandson.

Come on Damon and Carlton, you can do it! I have complete faith in you. JJ isn't paying attention and besides everyone has already made a boat load of cash on Lost. It doesn't matter what happens now. The money is in the bank. The fancy cars are in the garage. The viewers do not matter! Just remember Alias!

Are viewers less interested because of a lack of answers, or too much convoluted mythology, or too many filler episodes, or because of the glacial pace, or because TPTB have ruined certain characters? Or are they just being pulled away because other shows are more interesting? Without a real scientific poll it's pretty hard to say definitively.
I think its a combination of all those things. That's the problem. Its going wrong in so many different ways. I think the biggest problem is that the characters have become so flat that many of us don't care about them anymore. Like, when Jack was emoting, I found myself just thinking he's a pretty good actor and doing the best he can with a stupid role. But I didn't find myself able to believe in the character enough to care what happens to him. Same with the cheesy Sawyer and Kate stuff. And on top of that, its pretty clear that the Others found the stuff Dharma had left behind and/or were part of a follow-up psychology experiment that's messing with people's heads. So I'm not really curious enough to spend time figuring out what is going on. In fact, the only reason I'm here is because I found the dialogue on this board so interesting last year. Nice to see some came back, like Malachy, Vertical, MJ and Colin!

Hey come on, no offense to you. Just trying to spark some discussion. There were quite a few things I did not like: namely, the episode seemed contrived to the point that it was setting up the next episode (and all you writers out there back off, because I know you'll say that's what we're supposed to do). But the episode has been like all the previous episodes in that they reveal too little. Hey, peace my friend, I mean no harm to you, don't come down so hard, eh? Namaste.

How do you expect Kelvin to explore the entire island when he only has 108 minutes before the button needs to be pushed? Judging from the opening scene, there is a HUGE distance between the Othersville and the Swan station; at least a day's walk.

As for Danielle, there is a thread somewhere on the ‘Lage that shows her maps. In it she has mapped out the crater (supposedly, the location of Othersville). Who are we to judge what she actually knows and doesn't? That woman certainly knows a lot when it comes to the island, but she chooses to stay quiet instead. Also, considering the fact that we only ever get to see Danielle once or twice each season, means that we know little about her. Unit we see her flashback, she is just as mysterious as the Others, if not more.
100%
Sorry, it seems like we can't edit our posts. I meant to say "Until we see her..."

You know I actually wish I didn't have to correct you? This show just has me so tired.

Anyway:

1. Kelvin spent (at least) three years when he bunked with Desmond where he was not bound by the 108 minutes -- in fact his frequent extended trips became a source of tension between Desmond and Kelvin. (And he was shown adding to Radzinsky's map on the hatch door.)

2. Danielle said in her 16 years on the island (which she explored and mapped extensively) that she had never seen another person -- Others (she came up with the name) included. She said this way back in episode 9 of season 1, so you could be forgiven for having forgotten (since it seems so long ago TPTB seem to have forgotten as well).

Colin, your post was hilarious.
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Hey come on, no offense to you. Just trying to spark some discussion. There were quite a few things I did not like: namely, the episode seemed contrived to the point that it was setting up the next episode (and all you writers out there back off, because I know you'll say that's what we're supposed to do). But the episode has been like all the previous episodes in that they reveal too little. Hey, peace my friend, I mean no harm to you, don't come down so hard, eh? Namaste.


Not sure if this response is directed toward me, but I'll reply as if it is. I definitely didn't take any personal offense at your "have patience" remark (and I didn't think that I replied in a way that implies that feeling, but then again it's so hard to convey tone correctly on the internet), I just don't think that it actually qualifies as 'discussion.' The problem is that, yes, this episode *was* like those before it, and one can only take the slow pace and dropped threads for so long. To me, a television show shouldn't require limitless patience of their viewers - would it be so ridiculous to have a kick*** show that went fast and hard for 2-3 years and called it a day with a well-earned pat on the back? My main critique is that they're not making the show any better or more suspenseful the way they're going, so it seems clear that they're doing it to eke out extra years of revenue rather than producing a quality program.

We've all been good sports and enthusiastic fans for a couple years - is it really too much to ask that we finally get on with it? Apparently so.

PS - wsprag - ignore this if you weren't actually talking to me

Colin, your post was hilarious.
100%



Not sure if this response is directed toward me, but I'll reply as if it is. I definitely didn't take any personal offense at your "have patience" remark (and I didn't think that I replied in a way that implies that feeling, but then again it's so hard to convey tone correctly on the internet), I just don't think that it actually qualifies as 'discussion.' The problem is that, yes, this episode *was* like those before it, and one can only take the slow pace and dropped threads for so long. To me, a television show shouldn't require limitless patience of their viewers - would it be so ridiculous to have a kick*** show that went fast and hard for 2-3 years and called it a day with a well-earned pat on the back? My main critique is that they're not making the show any better or more suspenseful the way they're going, so it seems clear that they're doing it to eke out extra years of revenue rather than producing a quality program.

We've all been good sports and enthusiastic fans for a couple years - is it really too much to ask that we finally get on with it? Apparently so.

PS - wsprag - ignore this if you weren't actually talking to me


No, I was talking to you, MissNomer. Thanks for your kind reply. My wife has expressed the same views as you, that the show is going too slow and it seems that the writers are stretching it out a bit. I am staring to wonder myself after this episode. I, too, want a show that kicks butt, but I know that the writers have slotted this show for 4 or 5 seasons, so all the answers can't be given away at once. I thought the first five minutes of the premiere were more enlightening than the rest of the episode. No, you were not unkind in your remarks (thank you), I just wanted to make sure that, being new to the boards, you were not offended at my remarks. Let me be the first to welcome you to the fuselage and may we have many more great discussions about this great TV show. Look forward to discussing the show more with you.

All the best to you.

I think the premiere should have been two hours long and touched a little on all the stories including those on the beach and at the hatch. After waiting all summer for a new episode, it was disappointing to only see Jack/Kate/Sawyer.

I think the premiere should have been two hours long and touched a little on all the stories including those on the beach and at the hatch. After waiting all summer for a new episode, it was disappointing to only see Jack/Kate/Sawyer.


Cool! The first post has the same peves as me! But LF4E, TPTB stated in early August that the first eppy was going to be the story of the Others and JKS...

I thought the Premiere was going to be two hours. (TPTB got us hooked on two hours premieres ;)) That's what surprised me most.

Of course, I was hoping that we would see more, but considering it was a one hour eppy, they did a good job cramming it up.

But overall, we got to see Otherville, the crash from a new perspective, the famous Hydra Station and part of the Polar bear captivity area. We met new characters, got more clues and got to see Kate in a real nice dress. I could only ask for another hour.

8/10 Namaste, Eric.

Cool! The first post has the same peves as me! But LF4E, TPTB stated in early August that the first eppy was going to be the story of the Others and JKS...

I thought the Premiere was going to be two hours. (TPTB got us hooked on two hours premieres ;)) That's what surprised me most.

Of course, I was hoping that we would see more, but considering it was a one hour eppy, they did a good job cramming it up.

But overall, we got to see Otherville, the crash from a new perspective, the famous Hydra Station and part of the Polar bear captivity area. We met new characters, got more clues and got to see Kate in a real nice dress. I could only ask for another hour.

8/10 Namaste, Eric.

I think the season 2 premiere was only one hour.

The season 1 premiere was two hours.

The finale for both season 1 & 2 were two hours.

Was the Henry=Ben conclusion meant to be some semi-big reveal? It was obvious to me in the teaser that Henry was Ben, and I tend toward a state of idiocy.

The Juliet/Adam dialogue mostly slipped past me (I have it on tape, but haven't bothered to review it) - the whole bookclub/conformity scenario could've tantalizingly led to a Henry=Ben=Oprah reveal.

Hope I haven't just killed one of the writers' season-ending bakery goods.

Time for a nap.

Hello again, fellow Eh-ers.

Well, as a testament to the quality of last season, I didn't get around to watching the season 3 premiere until just last night (and even then it was an 'I'm bored, is there something I could watch or something? Oh yeah!'). My GF and I considered not watching the show until the season was over so we could watch them all at once, hoping it would offset the glacial pace. We may still decide to from now on. We'll see.

Yes, slow-paced, but is anyone really surprised? That's how it works on this show. I also found that the characters' lack of curiousity is no longer a problem for me, because I SHARE IT. I honestly don't care about Jack, Kate, or Sawyer. My favorite scene? "Hey! You got yourself a fish biscuit!" Now that's some comedy. The show has resorted to mocking itself, and I couldn't appreciate it more. When Sawyer escapes? Well, go back and watch Planet Of The Apes, when Charlton Heston escapes from his cage. Listen to the music, watch the cinematography. It was the SAME SCENE. And I couldn't stop laughing. The show has become a farce, but as long as TPTB recognize and celebrate that fact, it will at least be an entertaining ride as the show crashes and burns.

I think the season 2 premiere was only one hour.

The season 1 premiere was two hours.

The finale for both season 1 & 2 were two hours.

Thanks for the heads up! I never get enough Lost anyways...;) :biggrin:

Everything I'm thinking has already been said, so I won't repeat it. But if the next five episodes are anything like "A Tale of Two Cities" (boring, slow, and generally pointless), then maybe a three (?) month break in the middle of the season is the last thing the show needs.

So, this is my first post since last June and sadly, it's back in this thread. I am one of the folks who was really put off by last season -- some because of mythology and inconsistency, but mainly because I don't really like the characters anymore and consequently, don't really care so much whether they live or die. I used to be a die-hard Jack fan and now I'd be fine if they killed him off. After all, they want their "shock value" deaths on this show and his death would fit the bill.

Most of the criticisms I agree with, so I won't repeat them.

So here's my message to TPTB. Last year, I sucked up everything I could find about the S2 premiere and summer spoilers, I read the spoilers on the Waikiki premiere showing, I watched and rewatched the episodes, often in slo-mo to take in every detail. This year, I didn't even bother reading anything much about the premiere; in fact, I wasn't even sure when it was going to happen. I certainly didn't play any of that ABC website stuff, although I did watch that You Tube video that summed it all up. I TIVOed the S3 premiere and watched it a couple of days later and even took a break in the middle of it. It was fine, but clearly, this show is no longer a priority for me. You should be asking why a former die hard fan is now only fitting this show in when it's convenient.

And TPTB should know that part of my attitude has to do with comments I used to read from the show's producers and staff on various websites and in papers. I didn't always feel that they gave the show's fans due respect, since it is the fans that are making big bucks for them. I guess that goes with the territory of any show that becomes a huge success and it's inevitable. But there were things that were said on podcasts and in the various "official" sections that were a huge turn off to me, especially in respect to our sincere feedback.

So, although I thought the show could have been better, it's also pretty much what I expected from this season. I also think it's interesting that I stuck by BTVS through all the seasons and channel changes, even when the writing staff changed and the vibe of the show changed, etc, but I don't seem so willing to stick with Lost in the same way.

And it's not just the mythology stuff. I watched The 4400 diligently all summer long, even though I could see the inconsistencies, etc, but I thoroughly enjoyed it in spite of the mythology flaws. I'm not feeling the same way about Lost, though. :frown:

BTW, my "signature" below probably needs to be changed, since I'm not really in love with any of the characters anymore....

At the beginning of the episode, when Juliet pulled out the Talking Heads jewel case, I thought the writers were showing their sense of humor. "Stop Making Sense". But then Downtown came on and I realized it was "Same As It Ever Was".

Typical formulaic Lost. It opens with a seemingly normal existence, someone going through a typical daily routine. Only to be disrupted by the Lostaways and the realization that it's Craphole island. Didn't last season start out the same way? :frown: 'Same as it ever was'

And to add to the interest of the episode, it's another Jackback. Oh Joy. Where we learn that Jack's an A-hole. Stalks his ex, accuses his father of betrayal, picks a fight at an AA meeting and plays the poor victim. Ah, Jack, P>K>B. Didn't we see last season where you cheated on Sarah? So now you go all psycho when someone does the same thing as you? Hypocrit. I didn't think it was possible for Jack to be a less appealing character, but the writers keep hammering the point home. 'Same as it ever was'

I thought Sawyer was the expert con man. Being able to read people and situations and turning them to his advantage. Yet again he gets played in the most obvious of ways. This time falling for Carl and the fake escape attempt. The great conman gets conned again. 'Same as it ever was'
It sure is hard to like a character who's so damned incompetent at his own specialty.

Oh look, it's Kate in a towel coming out of the shower. 'Same as it ever was'

And TPTB have continued on with the inconsistencies and impossibilities. The flashy CGI of flight 815 breaking up, while some nice eye candy were a direct contradiction of what we saw previously. Instead of the plane breaking up above the clouds at 20-30,000 feet, it's cruising a few hundred feet above Craphole island. There was never an indication that the plane was flying so low, that there were instrument malfunctions or an indication from the pilot. Yet there's 815 flying low and slow over Craphole. I guess this retcon makes the survival of so many people a little more plausible, at least to TPTB. Another incongruity that struck me instantly was Benry's instructiuon to Goodwin to run an hour through the jungle to tailee beach. And given the long shot of Otherville and the smoke from the crashes I realize what a daunting task that was, I've run 15 marathons and run in Hawaii. Yet when Goodwin gomes out of the jungle in 'the other 48 days' he's not tired or sweaty or looking the worse for wear. I guess the Others really do have superhuman powers. But this turns out to be another inconsistency, in ATOTC it's an hour run for Goodwin, but in TO48D he emerges 10 minutes after the crash. I guess we wondered too much about how an Other could be so close to the crash beach, so another retcon was needed. Probably the biggest absurdity from the episode for me was Jack and Juliet pushing the door shut against the incoming flood of water. I know Jack is suppose to be the unquestioned hero of this show, but a hundred jacks couldn't have closed that door. And I literally laughed out loud watching that scene. So a new season of Lost and we still have those annoying inconsistencies and impossibilities. 'Same as it ever was'

Same as it ever was
Same as it ever was
Same as it ever was
Same as it. ever. was

Lost is like my uncle who used to be really nerdy and fun, but now is just a drunk.

If there was a plan for the story, and there probably was at at some point, it's gone the way of Laura Palmer Dead, wrapped in plastic.

I was not overly impressed with this episode, especially since it was the season premiere. And I agree, it should have been a two hour show, could have made up for all the commercial breaks.

I cannot believe these "others" think the survivors of a plane crash (or any other unlucky soul who finds themselves on the island) are there for their personal experiments. You would think when they see a plane crash their first human behaviour is to go and provide aid. This is just too bizarre to describe. I can only hope the losties find a way to take over and get the upper hand on the Others.

My question is, can I as a fan survive a whole year of the Others tormenting the Losties? Are Kate's two weeks going to equal a year of TV shows?

If there was a plan for the story, and there probably was at at some point, it's gone the way of Laura Palmer Dead, wrapped in plastic.

I am definitely seeing this analogy, but more on the part of TPTB possibly caving into viewer and network pressure. Twin Peaks went down the drain after the killer was revealed... which was something Lynch didn't EVER want to reveal, but it was written in due to viewer and network pressure. It makes me wonder about all the reveals that kind of ruin the mystery on Lost, as well.

My biggest issue with this episode is more on a fanbase level, considering that I'm not really that into the stories of Jack and Kate. Sawyer is interesting, but not when it comes to the "triangle." I really couldn't give a rat's behind who she picks, and this seems to be a big plot point so far this season. :rolleyes: Also, Jack's flashback didn't tell us ANYTHING. I was excited for about 2 seconds because I thought they were finally going to reveal that his dad was the person Sara was cheating with.... but that all went straight down the drain! So much for an informative and interesting flashback.

Hopefully when they get back to the characters I care more about, I'll be more moved by the episodes. The Others stuff seems like it's off to a decent start, and I'm really excited to learn more about them.

Are Kate's two weeks going to equal a year of TV shows?

For the sake of my sanity, I really hope not.

I was not overly impressed with this episode, especially since it was the season premiere. And I agree, it should have been a two hour show, could have made up for all the commercial breaks.

I cannot believe these "others" think the survivors of a plane crash (or any other unlucky soul who finds themselves on the island) are there for their personal experiments. You would think when they see a plane crash their first human behaviour is to go and provide aid. This is just too bizarre to describe. I can only hope the losties find a way to take over and get the upper hand on the Others.

My question is, can I as a fan survive a whole year of the Others tormenting the Losties? Are Kate's two weeks going to equal a year of TV shows?

i agree that the others acted soo uncaring when they saw the plane crash.
i can't believe that the others are good. they treat the lostee like animals to experiment on. if they are soo good and still wanted to experiment on them they could do it in a more kind way.
hopefully after the 1st 6 episode arc Kate and Sawyer will be back at the lostees camp away from the others. i have a feeling that they really want Jack.:)

It wasn't one of my favorites, although I did enjoy a lot of what I saw, and found myself intrigued by the possibility that Jack Kate and Sawyer will slowly be brainwashed and choose to stay with the Others, at least until they snap out of it.

When season 2 began I remember thinking, what the hell are they doing now? (Even though desmond' s arrival blew me out of the water.)
Ultimately, I actually preferred season2 to season1 even though I was initially put off by so much of the action moving to the Swan station. And since I live in mortal fear of going "Ugh" when all of this is resolved, I really enjoy more mysteries being piled onto older ones. As long as the stories seem fresh and the characters are interesting, I'll be hooked.

Bill

Didn't we see last season where you cheated on Sarah?

Did I miss this? Can someone refresh my memory as to Jack's cheating on Sarah? Thanks!!

With the brunette who's husband died in the hospital, i think. She was nice.

I've been following the alternate reality game under The Lost Experience forum, and that story has been going all summer. And it has been darn good. (It could actually be it's own seperate TV show) The thing is, I was really hoping they'd tie some of that story into the real show in the season premiere. But no such luck. All we learn is there is an underwater hatch called "The Hydra".

I was kind of dissappointed with the season premiere because I don't want the whole season to drag too much and I want the alternate internet reality story about The Hanso Foundation to show up in the show this season. (that would be SO awesome!) I did like last season because I didn't mind all the flashbacks of everyone's lives. It tied more of the characters together and showed how so many of them are connected. That was interesting to me. But with this season, I'd like them to get back to more of the story on the island instead of so many character flashbacks.

I was kind of bummed it was only a one hour episode too. I hope the Lost writers haven't run out of story and that's why things have slowed down. They've got two fullblown stories going now. The Hanso Foundation story on the internet, and the show itself. I hope they can keep up with both.

I found it interesting that Henry closed the door before Jack's new female friend could get in as the hatch was flooding. Then, at the end of the episode, she coldly thanks Henry when he tells her "good job". Obviously, he's not such a good guy after all and his own people may turn against him if he could leave one of his own behind to die in the flooded Hydra.

I look forward to this season even if it is slower again like last season.

If they announced the premiere would only be 3 characters, I guess they spared people who were following their announcements a lot of disappointment. I had had enough of following Lost extras by the sour-tasting end of S2, so I had no warnings from TPTB to mediate between me and "Tale."

A bad creative decision doesn't become more acceptable because it's announced. Bad decision to spend the first episode on an unresolved captivity. During the first hour of Pilot we met all the main characters, in the thick of chaos, ruin, panic, confusion, and it was fantastic. How much easier to touch on all the characters now that they're developed and familiar!

Had they gone the same route as the Pilot starting out this season, cutting from the aftermath of the Hatch explosion to camp (if any of the campers could rouse themselves enough to care about the explosion), to Sayid/Sun/Jin forming a rescue plan, then to the kidnaped trio--the episode could have been fast, furious, chaotic, breathtaking, The Hatch just blew apart leaving the fates of three characters in doutbt! What an opportunity for excitement simply wasted.

If TPTB are going to revisit "Raiders," they should take a look at how many captures, scrapes, rescues can occur in a short amount of time, as well as the amount of "mythology" that can be revealed in a few key scenes. And humor can be delivered in the middle of fast-paced action. You don't need 15 minutes of "blah" to set up the "fishbiscuit" line.

As for the characters, two years of development has left us with three people who are SO STUBBORN and pigheaded that they can't possible let it go for a minute in order to get a bead on their situation and try to manipulate their captors. In Season One, we saw a Kate who can be sneaky and devious to accomplish her goals, the same with Sawyer.

I'd like to think Kate was only pretend objecting to the shower and the dress so her captors won't be concerned that she has some smarts. Or that Sawyer only pushed the button three times after two warnings so as to appear dumber that a stump because he knew he was being watched. And why can't charming Jack speak to Juliet as one professional to another and stop reacting like brute strength is his only weapon (especially when it's not working)?

If these three had behaved intelligently and done something to trick their captors during the premiere, it might have felt satisfying. There is nothing interesting about mere captivity and blind rage. Cat and mouse play is interesting, but as the Others seem to be the cats, I would think they'd lose interest in this boring prey and go take a nap.

Oh wait, I guess the Others are interested in Jack/Kate/Sawyer because they've been watching them from Season One. Now they finally have the Season Three versions, it would be funny if the Others simply opened the cages and said, "you can go now. We thought you were worthy opponents but you're dull, dumb, and predictable. We need a new plane to crash!"

I think putting so much emphasis on the Others this season will be a big mistake. It was the original characters that made the show special, and the Others are more intimidating as a mysterious force. I think taking so much screentime away from the original losties will add to already shrinking ratings.

I agree lostfan, as the whole notion of "otherness" rides on the idea that the Other is alien from the Self, not knowable or comprehensible. While I can see the temptation of trying to create mundane yet still creepy Others, the central POV should have remained with the original group and their attempts to decipher the mystery.

A similar mistake happened last season with the Tailies. When they arrived they were unknowns who barged into the group and murdered one of the core group. Instead of staying with the core group and focusing on their experience of trying to integrate a group of untrustworthy strangers ... we shifted into the Tailies' perspective and learned it was all forgivable once you knew their backstory.

Instead of integrating the tailies from the margins, the original cast got pushed to the margins. Sawyer became dead weight for them to bump along in a litter for a few episodes. Michael became a cartoon, and Jin went from being proudly "foreign" and incomprehensible to jabbering "Uddahs!" A-L played Jack and Sawyer, Libby dominated Hurley, Eko ran Charlie and Locke. Sayid more or less vanished except when his torturing skills were needed. Kate got pushed out of the loop while Jack plotted with A-L. Rebellious Sun becomes an incubator. Suspicious Claire naively shoots her baby up with DHARMA drugs, no questions asked. Michael becomes a murdering tool for the Others.

Our originals lost all their strength and dignity, even Sayid was off center due to the silly Shannon love turned to tragedy plotline. Same plotline currently making Hurley act unlike himself. By end of season, tailies are mostly dead (but we don't care, in fact we are happy), core characters are shells of their former selves running around making stupid decisions, being tricked by totally transparent Michael, and the Finale is about the guy who hasn't been there all season. (I love Desmond, but it was yet another tangent)

Now we're supposed to shift our interest yet again, as the Others are the only ones acting intelligently. It looks like we're going to watch our former main characters get whatever shreds of intelligence and dignity they still possess eradicated.

Turning now to Village of the Leftovers, we discover the Others too lead soap opera lives of broken suburban marriages and tense book club meetings screaming not at all subtly that there's discord in Utopia ... Oh my god, I wonder if Ben and Julia cheated on each other. Oh my god, that would be such an amazing twist.

I've been following the alternate reality game under The Lost Experience forum, and that story has been going all summer. And it has been darn good. (It could actually be it's own seperate TV show) The thing is, I was really hoping they'd tie some of that story into the real show in the season premiere. But no such luck. All we learn is there is an underwater hatch called "The Hydra".

I was kind of dissappointed with the season premiere because I don't want the whole season to drag too much and I want the alternate internet reality story about The Hanso Foundation to show up in the show this season. (that would be SO awesome!) I did like last season because I didn't mind all the flashbacks of everyone's lives. It tied more of the characters together and showed how so many of them are connected. That was interesting to me. But with this season, I'd like them to get back to more of the story on the island instead of so many character flashbacks.

I was kind of bummed it was only a one hour episode too. I hope the Lost writers haven't run out of story and that's why things have slowed down. They've got two fullblown stories going now. The Hanso Foundation story on the internet, and the show itself. I hope they can keep up with both.

I found it interesting that Henry closed the door before Jack's new female friend could get in as the hatch was flooding. Then, at the end of the episode, she coldly thanks Henry when he tells her "good job". Obviously, he's not such a good guy after all and his own people may turn against him if he could leave one of his own behind to die in the flooded Hydra.

I look forward to this season even if it is slower again like last season.

I wish the creative team would actually focus on the TV show and use all their creativity on it instead of wasting it by splitting it all up. If they've got SO much story to tell, why in blazes is the pace of the show so absolutely glacial and boring?

They're sacrificing the show for the internet games.

I was really hoping this episode was going to be good but, lo and behold, it wasn't. I love Matthew Fox but I loathe Jack Shephard. I'm so tired of watching this "on the edge of losing it" guy that I wish he would just lose it or get his act together. Watching him be resorted to asking if his wife is happy was so pathetic. He's gone from taking over at crash site to crying in a dolphin cage because his wife left him. And how many times do we need to be told his wife left him and he's angry with daddy? When Benry asked Kate "why Sawyer" I knew then this was going to be "as the island turns" this year. That scene gave me the impression that Benry is only interested in who Kate picks. So, are the others us, the audience? I wouldn't be surprised.:rolleyes:

It seems to me that the show is losing its integrity. I know that there is a certain ending planned and there isn't one compact answer to every question. For that I think they are putting too many themes (most of them classic) to the story, creating puzzle pieces for internet fans but on the way they are hurting the continuity, the feel of existence of a real plan (including character arcs), consistency in the story. This evolving/organic show concept is really bugging me. It seems that each year (even half seasons) they will make steep turns in the story, playing with the characters and stories too much. This is a show watched intensely every minute, searching for clues, trying to give meaning to every act and every sentence we hear. But unfortunately, in so many cases we see that what we watched so carefully was not so important and meaningful at all because the writers decided to go another way for various reasons. But they don't write the story for the change so effectively. In another show this may not be so important but in Lost where everything happens for a reason you want to see the reason.

Another thing I really find very un-Lost is too much focus on romance. When the writers said that this year they will focus more on romance and adventure, I've never thought this MUCH. And look at what is happening in the first episode? Sawyer with a silly lovesick look on his face, Kate broken with a sad face and a comic line as "Where is Sawyer and Jack?" (I found it very manipulative towards the viewers if they don't show a very Lost explanation), Henry's comment on that, Juliet (seeking her Romeo!!) as a possible love interest for Jack, a Henry-Juliet hint. It seems that this trio was brought there for romance purposes only. On the beach side we have Claire and Charlie, the new hot couple. The craphole island is turning into something else and I don't like it. Are they really so hopeless in ratings to focus on romance this much? I know they are doing it to lighten the show a bit and to gain new viewers but what about those who love Lost as it is.

I didn't found the beginning scene so shocking. It was very similar to the last season's opening. Plan crash scene was cool but I think the hatch scene was more original then. Now we know what to expect from the first 5 minutes of premiere episodes. I hope next year (If I'm still watching) they can find a new trick as the opener.

Matthew Fox did a great job as a beaten Jack. This was what made me watch most of the episode. Though the story did not revealed much for the main plotline, it was good drama. Anyway I will give my final decision about the show after 6 episodes. The sixth episode is better be mind-blowing as much as they promise so that I can restore my faith in Lost.

Dear TPTB,

It appears you have misunderstood last season's comments in the 'eh' threads. We did not want for any new characters. Maybe one or two females would be fine since you seem to have a grudge against them.

But we did not wish for a plethora of new others to get to know the hang of. We simply do not care. We do not care for any 'Ben' (Scary name there,....Ben...) or Juliet story. We do not care who of the others screws out who's brains, and who will be screwing the losties. We ARE interested in the Dharma facilities, the mythology, and the greater purpose of the island.

Please, understand that if you wish to write for a 12 to 14-year old crowd, these have the tendency to disperse after showing the same naked actor 3 to 4 times. Their attention span will fade rapidly, while ours is deterring because of your growing focus on sorority relationship stories.

Many thanks

I've been following the alternate reality game under The Lost Experience forum, and that story has been going all summer. And it has been darn good. (It could actually be it's own seperate TV show) The thing is, I was really hoping they'd tie some of that story into the real show in the season premiere. But no such luck.

In the season premeire podcast Cuse and Lindelof made fun of people who followed the game as having no life and then said if you didn't follow the game, you didn't miss anything to do with the show.

You can't make this stuff up. :mad:

I have been waiting since the end of Season 1 for Sawyer to give 'Zeke' his come-uppance. I've been waiting for Sayid to finally get his hands on one of the others and really let them have it (although he did torture Ben, it was fruitless, didn't yield anything, and was probably part of Ben's plan anyway).

We have nothing to 'cheer' about! No moments of triumph! No nothing.[/quote]


For a premiere epi - I felt it was a little under par too. The previews make the first 5 minutes sound 'edge of your seat' and then say 'and that's only the beginning'

uh...beginning of nothing exciting - maybe when Jack and Juliette were drowning but otherwise ....nothing spectacular

Totally agree with you about making our heros look ridiculous. Does make you wonder what the purpose of keeping J/K/S.....testing the 3somes loyalties?

BenHenry certainly did not choose Sayid to be brought to him - I think he was truly afraid of Sayid - and it was Jack that made Sayid stop beating him. He put Jack against Locke and set them up against one another intenetionally but Sayid is smarter than that. He made plans with Jack before they left the beach and he is loyal. He'll be back and BenHenry will be forced to deal with him This time not Jack or anyone else will hold him back......poor BenHenry ;) C'mon Sayid - rally the troops -sneak attack!

IBut in my opinion, they could have made this show something really special by following the island mysteries and myths rather than investing SO much time (extremely unbalanced time) on the character development. That's what I don't like. Every episode the audience is guaranteed that at least 40% of the show will focus on one character in their flashbacks, and at least some of the island time on them, too. So for those who love the character development, each and every episode satisfies them. But for those who love the mysteries and the island's quirks, we can go 5 or 6 episodes without any progress or even mention of them. We're guaranteed nothing, and seldom get anything. If they had better balance, I think they would be losing fewer viewers.



I agree that the mysteries, myths, in addition to survival and interaction with the Island others is far more interesting than the "character development", which I put in quotes because for a show that is supposedly character driven, they've made the characters either horribly one dimensional, completely altered what we liked about them, or killed them off before we even got to know them enough to care.

For instance, how many Jackbacks do we need to know Jack is a control freak, has daddy issues, and needs to fix people? Why is Kate a heroine? She is the most grossly incompetent criminal and survivalist I've ever seen. She doesn't strike me as tough, just lying and manipulative. Locke...I loved season one Locke, he was the best character on the show, IMO, and then they just totally emasculated him. Shannon was just starting to get interesting, and they killed her...a death which in no way advanced the storyline other than to give Sayid a few tremendously bad grieving scenes. Sawyer has been reduced to the guy who gives funny nicknames and snarky one liners...to the point that it's so predictible it's not that funny anymore. He's become a caricature, not a character. Charlie...they could have had some good angsty heroin withdrawl scenes with him, but he's just stupid and whiny now too. And I couldn't care less about who Kate chooses because she doesn't have one bit of chemistry with either one of her choices. I could go on and on.

And then there's the lack of continuity...for instance, why would it be Charlie, of all people, to tell Shannon that there are no other people on the island when he was strung up and almost killed by the "other people on the island". That was my biggest WTF? moment ever.

And for the people who criticize us for wanting answers, well, I'm guessing that most of us don't expect everything to be neatly wrapped up every episode or even every season, what we'd like to see is things ADVANCE, not just get dropped never to be mentioned again.

I waited all summer excited about the season premiere for this show hoping it was going to get me excited about watching again since I thought the finale was pretty good. What I got was obvious stalling. I too am beginning to think this show has jumped the shark.

And I couldn't care less about who Kate chooses because she doesn't have one bit of chemistry with either one of her choices. I could go on and on.

Yes but, *mod edit to remove the bulk of this post, as it was one long rant bashing a VIP*

Yes but, *mod edit*

I absolutely agree that the writers cannot be blamed *mod edit*, however, they CAN be blamed for continually putting her front and center and shoving her down our throats all the time. I keep thinking back to that horrible Jack/Kate in the net scene...the lack of chemistry there was just awful yet you could tell that they were really pushing for it to be hot. I'm so over the "triangle" and the announcement that they are going to focus on "romance" doesn't bode well for season 3.

Three versions, it would be funny if the Others simply opened the cages and said, "you can go now. We thought you were worthy opponents but you're dull, dumb, and predictable. We need a new plane to crash!"

It would be totally hilarious. The Others want another plane crash?? Except don't let TPTB hear that one. I can just see them getting all excited about making another plane crash and introducing more characters with more flashbacks and more... Aaaaaagggrrrhhh!

Why can't they look at the TV show ER. It was good for a couple of years. The fast paced emergency room action. Then the ER writers started focusing more and more on the love interests. The show went down hill fast. For some reason the show is still limping along year after year with nothing new to say, but nobody will just "pull the plug" on it and put it out its misery.

Is that the future for Lost?

I wish the creative team would actually focus on the TV show and use all their creativity on it instead of wasting it by splitting it all up. If they've got SO much story to tell, why in blazes is the pace of the show so absolutely glacial and boring?

They're sacrificing the show for the internet games.


That's what I am wondering. A lot of things bothered me because, the plane breaks apart while the Others are having a wonderful time reading in their little utopian world. That instead of going out to see if they can help the injured, they infiltrate them and start killing off people. So that they could keep their little utopia hidden. That just made me fume a little more.
Did TPTB forget that the Pilot, or was it the Co-pilot was taken by a monster. Danielle, the Black Rock, The hatches, Kelvin and Desmond and why they were on the island and all this time Desmond could have gotten off because he had the boat.There are so many things that I wish they would start answering, but somehow for the sake of whatever storyline they are following they seem to have amnesia about most of the questions they themselves have raised. Instead of answers we just get more questions. Which I am sure is frustrating me.
Kate running around in a towel is getting stupid. The triangle angle is so old that I really don't care who Kate winds up with anymore. I used to like Jack, but last weeks episode made me dislike him even more. It's like they took a character and turned his character inside out and what we have now is an alien inhabiting the body of Jack. He used to be so self assured, now he seems to have so many flaws. I am thoroughly disliking Jack. Sawyer, felt to me like they were making him out to be like Pavlov's dogs. What bothers me is that these were the 2 characters that I thought had so much potential in their stories. I could care less about them.

im curious why the Others just didnt kill all the plane survivors guerrilla tactic style with night raids, etc.. form the start. they obviously had no problem trying to hang charlie, so why toy with the "main characters" in cages with goofy reports, background junk, etc.

why should the Others be so concerned if they have such in depth knowledge of the island, guns, drugs/tranqs, etc... seems like an open invitation for disaster to the Others agenda on the island - especially since Ben was so concerned on intelligence as soon as he seen the plane. "get all this information on them.... hehehehehehe SO I CAN TORTURE THEM." must be boring in "utopia"

and if they dont want to kill them - why develop such a hostile relationship with them right off the bat with capturing children and capturing, stealing / killing people?

seems like a really stupid way to react to people for such a "civilized utopian vision." but then again, civilization has always been hostile towards "OTHERS".

Idemandashrubbery wrote: Please, understand that if you wish to write for a 12 to 14-year old crowdThis clicked with a minor epiphany I had yesterday, still trying to sort out what's gone wrong with my former favorite show ... you are all helping me process this!

I was thinking of the "shippers" -- absolutely thrilled seeing Claire and Charlie kiss. When was the last time a screen kiss made me that happy? I was 12--15.

What are the underlying psychological fantasies dominating the current plotline?
Let's see -- Characters I'm supposed to identify with as my heroes are persecuted and imprisoned by:

Parental figures who on one hand lead a dull suburban book club life, but for some reason get their kicks from torturing me and my friends

These mean people say they are looking out for my best interests but all they do is lock me up, cage me, play games with me.

They never give me answers to what I want to know, but they want to know all about my private life.

They tell me it's time to put away tomboy clothes and dress like a lady, act civilized.

OMG, I'm in the gym locker room and some creepy old perv has invaded and wants to watch me shower.

Yes they provide me with food but only when I obey their orders. My back is against the wall!

Look, the kid in the cage next to me is getting out! This is my chance!

Yeah, they tried to scare me into not "exploring" my world because there's a deadly disease out there, but I know they lie and exaggerate.

Their entire pathetic existence is centered on hounding me and making me miserable.

They say this is their world because they were here first.

Who do they think they are -- playing God! Why are they so smug?

Were they idealists in their youth? So they say, but what are they now? Hypocrites!

My response (or rather how my heroes respond):
Surly, sullen, uncommunicative, acting out, sarcasm, rattling my chains and kicking the invisible walls. I want my friends! They say we'll all die if I open the door. What do I care anyway? I want out!

The most important questions in my world? Who's going to get together with whom? When can I get off restriction so I can go back to my friends and do what I want. Why don't my friends want to hang out with me any more? Don't they think I'm cool? I'll prove I'm cool! (isn't that what Charlie turned into last season?)
___________________________

I think this new plot direction plays directly to the crises of adolescence; the schoolyard crushes, the anger, feeling of persecution by parents, sense of being trapped, restricted, hounded, even tortured by adults who think they run the world. The "love" relationships -- same lack of maturity.

The characters aren't so much becoming stupid as being regressed and made to act like rebellious teenagers. Which would be abundantly clear if Fox/Lily/Holloway were replaced by 15 year olds. You would hardly have to change their lines other than taking away "marriage." But look at Jack's latest backstory: obsessing over who his girl left him for, imagining that his father is the villain of the piece. Going to an important legal proceeding and acting like it's nothing, throwing his assets to the winds. Barging in on an AA meeting and acting unaware of how inappropriate that is. Like he's lost all sense of boundaries. He's supposed to be a neurosurgeon with all the training and discipline that entails, but has "teenager acting out" written all over him.

Also note that in this flashback, Jack's father's relapse becomes Jack's fault. Classic pre-adult sense that the world resolves around oneself, and one has the power by being a bad son or daughter to make bad things happen to parents, family, loved ones. In earlier flashbacks, Christian was the owner of his own frailties; even though Jack had turned him in for operating drunk, Jack was clear that his father had a problem. Now we learn Jack's selfish behavior has set in motion the events leading to Christian's death. It's all about Jack.

I realize this seems insulting to adolescents, most of whom who are capable of being reasonable and mature and behaving intelligently. This is more like the dark side of adolescence, the phantasy life being played out on the show. There's a tremendous appeal in seeing our repressed sides act out on the screen, especially represented by gorgeous actors ...

Too bad for me I've been over those issues for a long time and I want to see the mature complex show this appeared to be once upon a time! I really have to wonder if the internet fan culture masks from TPTB how many of the wildly enthusiastic responses come from the young audience ... a screenname says nothing much about demographics. Or have they made a decision to focus on the younger audience? Is that why all the complex allusions have been tossed in the dustbin of prior seasons?

Does anyone else think that Season 3 is back to high school angst? Even Jr High?

ETA: What is the Book Club reading? Carrie. Adolescent rage and sexuality manifested in psi powers.

This clicked with a minor epiphany I had yesterday, still trying to sort out what's gone wrong with my former favorite show ... you are all helping me process this!
The characters aren't so much becoming stupid as being regressed and made to act like rebellious teenagers..
Wow! You have really hit the nail on the head!! This is really true, what you're saying. Funny, I did think before that the show looks like it was written by twelve year olds but I didn't really think it through til seeing your analysis. It all makes perfect sense now. Except I would say pre-teen rather than adolescent as the level of maturity is slightly lower than that of a teenager (I work with youth in that age group that's how I know everything you are saying fits perfectly). The level of romance and thinking is right spot on. Even the last book Sawyer was reading was a Judy Blume book!! I do wonder if they are catering to the really young crowd but also maybe the socially-challenged??

One of the problems is that this episode was so DEPRESSING. Anyone agree?

One of the problems is that this episode was so DEPRESSING. Anyone agree?

yeah. jack's flashbacks are way too e.r., though i care much for jack's character, i think the episode should have resolved and answered the reason why jack and sarah came apart and jack's dad involvement in it. the sawyer and kate scenes are a tad sad too, especially that sawyer look when he throwed her the fish biscuit. i kinda hate kate though that she still is hungry after the seaside bistro breakfast.

can't wait for the next ep. i misssed sun a lot!

One of the problems is that this episode was so DEPRESSING. Anyone agree?



I agree too.




The characters aren't so much becoming stupid as being regressed and made to act like rebellious teenagers. Which would be abundantly clear if Fox/Lily/Holloway were replaced by 15 year olds. You would hardly have to change their lines other than taking away "marriage." But look at Jack's latest backstory: obsessing over who his girl left him for, imagining that his father is the villain of the piece. Going to an important legal proceeding and acting like it's nothing, throwing his assets to the winds. Barging in on an AA meeting and acting unaware of how inappropriate that is. Like he's lost all sense of boundaries. He's supposed to be a neurosurgeon with all the training and discipline that entails, but has "teenager acting out" written all over him.

Also note that in this flashback, Jack's father's relapse becomes Jack's fault. Classic pre-adult sense that the world resolves around oneself, and one has the power by being a bad son or daughter to make bad things happen to parents, family, loved ones. In earlier flashbacks, Christian was the owner of his own frailties; even though Jack had turned him in for operating drunk, Jack was clear that his father had a problem. Now we learn Jack's selfish behavior has set in motion the events leading to Christian's death. It's all about Jack.

I realize this seems insulting to adolescents, most of whom who are capable of being reasonable and mature and behaving intelligently. This is more like the dark side of adolescence, the phantasy life being played out on the show. There's a tremendous appeal in seeing our repressed sides act out on the screen, especially represented by gorgeous actors ...



You know what I just couldn't figure out what was wrong with the premiere episode. I think you hit the nail on the head. Except for one thing isn't the show supposed to be catering to the 18-49 year olds?

Funny, I did think before that the show looks like it was written by twelve year olds but I didn't really think it through til seeing your analysis. It all makes perfect sense now. Except I would say pre-teen rather than adolescent as the level of maturity is slightly lower than that of a teenager

I do wonder if they are catering to the really young crowd but also maybe the socially-challenged??

While you may think this is a harmless statement it comes across as very condesending to not only the writers but fans of this show and has been reported to us as such by a member.

This site is actually sponsored by the creators and writers of LOST and while disagreeing and debating their direction is welcomed...saying the show looks like it was written by 12 year olds is not.

While you may think this is a harmless statement it comes across as very condesending to not only the writers but fans of this show and has been reported to us as such by a member.

This site is actually sponsored by the creators and writers of LOST and while disagreeing and debating their direction is welcomed...saying the show looks like it was written by 12 year olds is not.

I apologize to everyone, especially the fans, for those condescending remarks. With the socially challenged comment, even as I was writing it, I was thinking if the fans are socially challenged then I must be even more so for watching it when I keep complaining about it. Its a stereotype that could be used against all of us. So I didn't mean to point fingers at others even though that's how it came out. With the 12 year olds comment, I said last year and I still believe that the writers are likely all very good at what they do so I certainly didn't mean to be insulting them as writers. I think something has broken down in the writing team process, though. In connection with what I have read in interviews, it seems the producers have acknowledged people have been overextended and the productions rushed? The writers would not be responsible for that - it would be the producers. What I meant was something like "the characters, especially in the romances, come across as being like 12 year olds, which is likely unintended by the writers but due to glitches in the production process." In any case, I apologize for the insults

yeah. some really are just plain criticism. without really seeing the sparks of good scenes. and though i agree that jack's flashnacks are downers, the first 5 minutes really blew me away! scenes like these are the reasons why we watch lost in the first place...

The first 5 minutes blew me away too. I just wish that the rest of the episode, would have done so to me. I really wanted to be blown away by the episode. But I wasn't.

While you may think this is a harmless statement it comes across as very condesending to not only the writers but fans of this show and has been reported to us as such by a member.

This site is actually sponsored by the creators and writers of LOST and while disagreeing and debating their direction is welcomed...saying the show looks like it was written by 12 year olds is not.


Dude... I mean this with all due respect... But you need to seriously lighten up. I've read several of your posts, and you always have this tone. I think you're taking things waaaaaaaay too seriously. Either that, or the 'power' has intoxicated you.
100%
I apologize to everyone, especially the fans, for those condescending remarks.

There was no need to apologize. You had a good posting, with some good thoughts and analysis. Don't let people bully you just because they happen to disagree with you.

I'm going to have to agree with the Count here. Those remarks weren't made in a hostile tone and they argued their point. I especially don't think that the fact that this site is owned by the show is reason enough not to critique in plain terms what we've opined is a problem with it.

That sentence convoluted enough for you? I could probably make it a little more unclear if I tried...
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I should probably clarify by saying that I thought that it was pretty clear that the abovementioned remarks weren't *really* saying that the writers are pre-adolescents, but rather that the plotlines they're following appeal more to a younger frame of mind.

I'm not sure yet whether I wholeheartedly agree, but OFG makes a pretty cogent argument, and for this reason I don't think that the voicing of these opinions should be discouraged.

The first 5 minutes blew me away too. I just wish that the rest of the episode, would have done so to me. I really wanted to be blown away by the episode. But I wasn't.

I wasn't even really blown away by the first five minutes. True we did receive a answer to a huge island mystery (the location of the Others) as well as a general jist of their everyday life, this (to me at least) was another "answer" that was completely unimaginative, underwhelming, and just plan boring.

Like last's season's finale reveal of the cause of the plane crash and what was inside the hatch, the answer was just so well, meh.

What was inside the hatch? A guy pushing a button every 108 minutes for some unknown reason.

Why did the plane crash? Because it just so happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time when that guy didn't push the button (although TPTB have yet to explain whet exactly did happen when the button wasn't pushed and how whatever happened was powerful enough to crash a plane).

Now we get, where are the Others? They're living a quintessential suburban life in a planned community in plain site on the other side of the island.

I mea that's it? That's the best TPTB could come up with? Danielle spends 16 years exploring and mapping the island and never sees a living soul, and yet all the Losties had to do was hike over a mountain and they would have seen it sticking out like a sore thumb amid the jungle brush as plain as we viewers did. Heck, all the Tailies needed to do was hike a scant hour (one hour!) in a different direction and they would have stumbled upon a fresh batch of muffins and a book of the month club featuring Stephen King.

What a huge let down.

As for the other 38 minutes, just more boring lack of answers. We still have no idea who the Others are, what they're doing on the island, why they were interested in Claire or Walt, why they wanted Jack, Kate and Sawyer, why they brutally attacked and kidnapped the Tailies, why they wore costumes, what (if anything) happened to Dharma... well, I could go on.

In other words, the rest of the season premier was just another typical episode of Lost. So basically for waiting almost four months we got one major answer: where are the Others? And like I said, the answer was incredibly underwhelming.

Dude... I mean this with all due respect... But you need to seriously lighten up. I've read several of your posts, and you always have this tone. I think you're taking things waaaaaaaay too seriously. Either that, or the 'power' has intoxicated you.
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There was no need to apologize. You had a good posting, with some good thoughts and analysis. Don't let people bully you just because they happen to disagree with you.



I didn't want to say this too since I also answered FanOfHurley, and OFG, I felt like some of the retaliation was directed upon the persons who agreed with OFG, and I certainly was one of them. The only thing that I feel bad about is the fact that I think we were all looking forward to something better for the opening of the 3rd season. As far as I am concerned and this is solely my opinion, I felt like we didn't get much. The fact that the premiere of the third season had less viewers speaks volumes as to what is wrong with the show. I have felt like TPTB have failed to address certain questions that they themselves have raised thru out the previous 2 seasons. I feel that the answers, when we get them, are not sufficient enough. It seems to me that when some mysteries are answered they are always answered with a whole lot of questions. For myself that is frustrating. Most of us have been fans of this show since the first episode. There in lies the frustration. While I do agree some of us may not like the answers to the mysteries, it is the fact that we don't seem to get much of an answer, when we do get one. Everything I have said is my opinion.

I'm going to have to agree with the Count here. Those remarks weren't made in a hostile tone and they argued their point. I especially don't think that the fact that this site is owned by the show is reason enough not to critique in plain terms what we've opined is a problem with it.
just a word of advice. it is not really a good idea to take the side of someone that was warned by a mini mod. you can certainly critique the eppy. we encourage polite discussion on this but not the rudeness, even if meant in jest, as tone/jest is difficult to detect in the written word.

just a word of advice. it is not really a good idea to take the side of someone that was warned by a mini mod.

I could say something here but I'm REALLY going to bite my tongue.

I could say something here but I'm REALLY going to bite my tongue.

I think I know what that something is, and I completely agree.

Anyhow, tonight's a new ep. We'll see what comes of it (my expectations aren't too high).

I could say something here but I'm REALLY going to bite my tongue.

I think I know what that something is, and I completely agree.

Anyhow, tonight's a new ep. We'll see what comes of it (my expectations aren't too high).

Drop. It. NOW.

I wasn't even really blown away by the first five minutes. True we did receive a answer to a huge island mystery (the location of the Others) as well as a general jist of their everyday life, this (to me at least) was another "answer" that was completely unimaginative, underwhelming, and just plan boring.

Like last's season's finale reveal of the cause of the plane crash and what was inside the hatch, the answer was just so well, meh.

What was inside the hatch? A guy pushing a button every 108 minutes for some unknown reason.

Why did the plane crash? Because it just so happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time when that guy didn't push the button (although TPTB have yet to explain whet exactly did happen when the button wasn't pushed and how whatever happened was powerful enough to crash a plane).

Now we get, where are the Others? They're living a quintessential suburban life in a planned community in plain site on the other side of the island.

I mea that's it? That's the best TPTB could come up with? Danielle spends 16 years exploring and mapping the island and never sees a living soul, and yet all the Losties had to do was hike over a mountain and they would have seen it sticking out like a sore thumb amid the jungle brush as plain as we viewers did. Heck, all the Tailies needed to do was hike a scant hour (one hour!) in a different direction and they would have stumbled upon a fresh batch of muffins and a book of the month club featuring Stephen King.

What a huge let down.

As for the other 38 minutes, just more boring lack of answers. We still have no idea who the Others are, what they're doing on the island, why they were interested in Claire or Walt, why they wanted Jack, Kate and Sawyer, why they brutally attacked and kidnapped the Tailies, why they wore costumes, what (if anything) happened to Dharma... well, I could go on.

In other words, the rest of the season premier was just another typical episode of Lost. So basically for waiting almost four months we got one major answer: where are the Others? And like I said, the answer was incredibly underwhelming.

Which is why the Season opener should have been a 2 hour special answering questions from the finale and trying to appease the millions who felt frustrated after Season 2.
Instead, yet another underwhelming episode that has probably alienated more fans and done more damage.

I wasn't going to watch it anymore, but decided to give it one more chance. At the end of the show my husband said only one thing..."I think I'll just see how it turns out on the DVD's". He'll never do that though because he wouldn't go to the trouble. What do you want to bet that there were thousands more like him that night?

I wasn't going to watch it anymore, but decided to give it one more chance. At the end of the show my husband said only one thing..."I think I'll just see how it turns out on the DVD's". He'll never do that though because he wouldn't go to the trouble. What do you want to bet that there were thousands more like him that night?

Well i didn't buy the DVD's for Season 2 ( no chance ) but apparently Vincent is on the boat as Mike and Walt sail off. That's Vincent the dog who did not travel across the island with Jack and Co. Vincent the dog.
Maybe Season 3 dvd's will have The Beatles playing at a beach party for Claire and Charlie ?

Good to see you back on the forum, Jomama.

Drop. It. NOW.

:rolleyes: PM in your box.

I'm hoping they use the remaining 5 episodes to either finish up or at least follow up on some of the many plot lines that have been left hanging. By opening up new plot lines with ever episode the writers are making it harder and harder to come up with a solution that will solve the riddle that is LOST.

Also, I'm another vote for picking up the pace. By only scheduling 6 eposides before the break, the writers can't afford to spend an entire eposide about only a subset of the cast.
S3 Ep 1 --- The others, Kate, Jack, & Sawyer
S3 Ep 2 -- The others, Sun, Jin & Sayid

Well, I haven't posted since last season, but little has changed. The show is still in decline; the posters on this thread are making highly intelligent, insightful comments; the moderators are getting their panties in a twist; Lindelof and Cuse are still mocking fans on the show on their podcast.

I can't add much to the comments that have been made. But to summarize - it has been literally years since the dramatic ending of Season One, when Walt, a critical character, was abducted by seabillies.

We still have no idea why they did so.

I don't think the creators know why they did so. I think they are making it up as they go along.

When posters like Jomama, who has posted over 1200 times, are tuning out, that is prima facie evidence that the very core of the fan base is defecting.

"Tale" was one of the more tedious mixes of soap opera and sadism I have seen in years. It was a show in which the behaviors of the characters made no logical sense.

Do you guys remember a character named John Locke? In Season One -- in significant part due to the efforts of Terry O'Quinn -- he emerged as one of the most interesting characters in television history, a fitting heir to Mr. Spock in many respects.

Today, that character is all but ruined, having been "re-set" by the estimable Mr. Cuse.

A show that had a strong ensemble core has been transmogrified into a sprawling mess of guest actors, new regulars who disappear without a trace, and boring new flashbacks to explain these new appearances.

Amidst it all, there are only a few signs of life -- a creative, clever opening of "Tale"; a galvanizing actor named Michael Emerson; and the reasonably strong imaginative powers (as opposed to dramatic skills) of the creators who dreamed up the orientation video.

But I'm not optimistic. And the bottom line is that I'm frustrated, not entertained.

I wasn't going to watch it anymore, but decided to give it one more chance. At the end of the show my husband said only one thing..."I think I'll just see how it turns out on the DVD's". He'll never do that though because he wouldn't go to the trouble. What do you want to bet that there were thousands more like him that night?


I'll take that bet and include my husband and 3 children in the process. My oldest told me it was too confusing. I agree with Archetype, I am not entertained just a lot confused.

I vote that they end the flashbacks, and accelerate the pace of island mysteries.

Or, that the flashbacks give us information on the island (i.e., Danielle and the Others).

They're trying to "puff" the episodes with stale, boring flashbacks -- and in so doing, will lose ratings. So their grand strategy of squeezing a few more years out of the show will backfire. Guaranteed.

I vote that they end the flashbacks, and accelerate the pace of island mysteries.

Or, that the flashbacks give us information on the island (i.e., Danielle and the Others).

They're trying to "puff" the episodes with stale, boring flashbacks -- and in so doing, will lose ratings. So their grand strategy of squeezing a few more years out of the show will backfire. Guaranteed.
I agree. This first flashback was boring and irritating. So are we supposed to be surprised that Jack can be obsessive and whiny? This episode featured by far the weakest and dullest might-as-well-have-been-commercials flashback scenes so far.

Wow! A really well-reasoned, eloquent and original perspective! What a great post. In keeping with my previous post, I got more out of this analysis than I got from the episode itself.

And now I am going to use this analysis to help me clear up my own perspective on what Lost has become...

I was thinking to myself... I wish the writers and TPTB would read your post, so they could see the types of deeper themes and thought processes that the fans of intelligent TV are looking for in Lost. Or used to be. Because, all that stuff you're saying there...
I don't know if it was written that way intentionally, or if it's just there to be found because the themes and tone of the show have deteriorated to the "lowest common denominator."

Not to imply that the themes of adolescence, coming of age and all its Freudian underpinnings can't make for provocative Art. It's just a long way from the themes of ethical relativism, free will and the like which were so masterfully woven into the first season and beginning of the second.

Maybe Lost is like a giant Rorschach test, where the themes and symbolism are just splattered around for us to see whatever we want to see. What frustrates us is that TPTB keep splattering more new ink onto the old image, obscuring what we thought we once saw.



I was wondering why no one else on the 'Lage seemed to see that this was new information and the point of Jack's flashback. I thought it was totally obvious. I never really liked Jack, but now it's not even fun to dislike him because of how heavy-handedly the writers portrayed what a jerk he really is.

Anyway, it was fun writing this post, so thanks to you OFG (and the 'Lage of course), Lost can still provide me with a little enjoyment and stumulus.

Playing devil's advocate here... Regarding OFG's lengthy post there seems to be a case of "doth protest too much." While admittedly there are angst ridden characters and some that seem to have reverted backward to "baser instincts," to write the show off as some sort of testosterone driven high school fantasy is kind of overkill. Sure the show can be interpreted that way, if you're looking for pre-adolescent themes.

I think this episode's dealings with the Jack character were in fact very "adult" and real. Maybe I can relate to the storyline with more empathy because of my own similar circumstance, but I think the relationship between an alcoholic father and his son has been written extremely well. I can relate to reverting to self-centered behavior. In the recovery process the parent/child roles are very often switched over and over until all the dirty laundry is aired out. And I too have sabotaged a relationship with a woman because I couldn't get over my "daddy issues." I find that kind of vulnerability very refreshing on a network show. It's not all about boinking in the on-call room or hooking up with people.

That said, from the mythology angle, I was underwhelmed. They seem to be mirroring season two verbatim with this opening episode sequence giving us a "Where the hell is this taking place?" moment and then basically 40 minutes of cryptic conversations and dingy holding facilities. This second episode would seem to mirror "Adrift" in that it focuses us on another small group of characters at sea. If the mirroring of last season continues, we can expect to see Sun get shot but not killed and Jin jump off the boat after her sinking body. While this might seem downright lazy, it could bode well with the third episode being a Locke installment and hopefully a bigger mythology download.

Maybe Lost is like a giant Rorschach test, where the themes and symbolism are just splattered around for us to see whatever we want to see. What frustrates us is that TPTB keep splattering more new ink onto the old image, obscuring what we thought we once saw.


I've seen some brilliant, insightful commentary on Lost in these threads, but this assessment is the absolute centerpiece of many of our frustrations, I believe... well said.

On a different note - I am just going back to re-watch this episode, and I want to revisit something I mentioned earlier... that being the lack of 'moments of triumph' and things to cheer about and getting the jump on the others, because I realized that there is another moment of absolute idiocy in this episode committed by our beloved inept hero, Jack. When he does actually get the jump on Juliet, and finds the Tazer gun in her waistband, does he do what any normal, sane, straight-thinking person would do in that situation and keep the gun for his own after disarming Juliet? HA! Of course not! This is Lost, where our protagonists are imbecils! No, no. Instead of absconding with the weapon, what does he do? He simply leaves it on the ground, discarding it. After he uses the broken plate as a weapon, does he bother to upgrade to the tazer gun? Nope. He is content to hold a hostage with a broken ceramic plate.

I can't root for a moronic failure. I just can't. Sayid is the only character I can pull for now. He's the only one that has a chance at saving anyone.

That's the same reason I'm still coming here, if only to lurk. Sometime last season I realized that the 'Lage was providing a lot more entertainment and intellectual stimulus than the show itself.

And the folks you've mentioned, as well as a few other posters, have become 'characters' in their own rights to me, whom I'll continue to tune in and watch for every week.

Yes, and its nice to see you, too. And Jomama and everyone else from last year who showed up after I named those names. Re. Jack's daddy issues. I agree its typical of children of alcoholics (i am one) but the thing is they've been dragging it out for a long time and keep hammering it home in a way that lacks depth. Its yet another of their story ideas that had a lot of potential but got, um lost. BTW, I didn't see Jack as responsible for his father's relapse. If you are close to someone who is an alcholic, you learn that they are responsible for their own drinking, not you (I know Jack feels he is responsible but I wanted to say that in case anyone reading this is in the same boat).

I've seen some brilliant, insightful commentary on Lost in these threads, but this assessment is the absolute centerpiece of many of our frustrations, I believe... well said.

On a different note - I am just going back to re-watch this episode, and I want to revisit something I mentioned earlier... that being the lack of 'moments of triumph' and things to cheer about and getting the jump on the others, because I realized that there is another moment of absolute idiocy in this episode committed by our beloved inept hero, Jack. When he does actually get the jump on Juliet, and finds the Tazer gun in her waistband, does he do what any normal, sane, straight-thinking person would do in that situation and keep the gun for his own after disarming Juliet? HA! Of course not! This is Lost, where our protagonists are imbecils! No, no. Instead of absconding with the weapon, what does he do? He simply leaves it on the ground, discarding it. After he uses the broken plate as a weapon, does he bother to upgrade to the tazer gun? Nope. He is content to hold a hostage with a broken ceramic plate.

I can't root for a moronic failure. I just can't. Sayid is the only character I can pull for now. He's the only one that has a chance at saving anyone.

I hate to nitpick but how was Jack suppose to know that the object Juliet was reaching for was a tazer gun? We the audience know that it is a Tazer gun from her encounter with Sawyer but for all Jack knows it could be anything from a walkie talkie or some sort of alert device. More to the point this was a split second decision. He had formulated a plan to take advantage of the fact that she would be carrying in the food when entering the room and if there's one thing that has been demonstrated throughout the show is that Jack is a control freak. He doesn't do anything unless he's thought it through logically.

We're talking about a three second window of opportunity during which he surprises her at the door, pins her on the table twisting her arm, knocking said tazer out of her other hand and then improvising a weapon with the nearest object. In hindsight, of course, the tazer makes a better weapon if you know it's an actual tazer (Though it would have been kind of funny if Jack grabbed it and set off some kind of alarm, if you couple it with him getting all pissed off and running into the plexi glass.) You can pin a lot of stupidity on his character (maybe all of them) for not asking the right questions (though that seems to be more of an plot deflection device than a character flaw) but not in this case. Plus he's a surgeon. In the short term wouldn't he feel more comfortable doing damage with a bladed weapon than an adjustable electrical shock device. Maybe I'm not using my omniscient-veiwer logic. If I'm in that situation and I'm holding someone down and presented with the choice of something that I know can slice a jugular versus something that could very well be a garage door opener, I'm taking the sharp-edged thingy every time.

ok, I haven't gone through ALL the replys, but what dangerdork said a few posts back, really nails it on the head. I heve stayed away from message boards about Lost, cause I was blown away by the first 2 seasons, and had no need to question anything going on, BUT, I am glad to find other people are let down as well( Ihave been on a few boards claiming season 3 having the best episodes yet?!?!?).

I read somewhere over the summer that the writers said they were going to focus less on the 'mythology' of the island and the people on it, and more on ' the chase' between the cast aways and the others..yawn.....so that right there set a red flag up for me, I mean, really, first 2 episodes, pretty dull....the last one was good, Locke is always an intersting fellow, but I hope shit picks up.

I loved last season finale, I know someone said they were let down, but really, Season 1 and 2 were bananas! I already written this mini season off, as there are only 3 more episodes, I hope they really re group and kick *** when they come back in March( it's March right?). I mean, I am really bullshit about this season so far, it's like when Alias went off track and just dragged on.....this is starting to remind me of Twin Peaks Season 2, mid season, when it was just like the characters were doing and saying what all the viewers expected them to be doing?

I can't root for a moronic failure. I just can't. Sayid is the only character I can pull for now. He's the only one that has a chance at saving anyone.
There was so much potential in Jack but with the above statement I now sadly agree. :frown: