Web TheFuselage.com

View Full Version : Kelvin Painting On Hatch Door


mikec12321
05-25-2006, 04:44 PM
on a desmond flashback, kelvin asks desomd if hes ready and desmond tries reconfigurinng the electric box and making the doors close, so kelvin can paint on them. he was using laundry detergent, which glows under a blacklight, and he was painting the mpa that locke saw.
maybe kelvin is trying to put his own peices of the puzzle together, and cant quite figure things out. but why wouldnt he just draw it or something, instead of on this hard to read hatch door, i can see it a few different ways.

1. he is a very low on the chain for the hanso thing, and he got into it, and its one of those things where u cant back out, like a gang(they usually kill u, or do somethin to u). so hes trying to leave clues for future use, and end it or something, or hes trying to get help.

2. he is on to something, and if he is being watched, hes trying to conceal it as best as he can. or maybe his old partner started this map, and he is either trying to figure it out, or adding to it.

3. it could all be a set up, because everything was meant to happen. the doors shut down on lock for no reason(yet to be confirmed), but the others are trying to lead them, or give them clues about everything.

4. or it could be simply he wanted to escape. it was pretty clear that more than one guy came in yellow suits to take desmond. kelvins old partner could have started the map, as a way to get around the islan, or escape. maybe some conflict came about, and kelvin really killed his partner in order to take desmonds boat alone.

im sure theres tons of other possible explanations, but i just put what i have for now down. add to it if u think of something

mookie007
05-25-2006, 04:48 PM
Didn't he mention to Desmon that the other guy started it? I thought I heard that. I'm glad they did a close up on the laundry detergent, it certainly answered how the writing was put on there. Congrats to all those who guessed correctly after Lockdown!!!!!

longdong
05-26-2006, 01:47 AM
There was only one man in a yellow hazmat suit that came to get desmond - not multiple. It was just a stylistic thing the way that was shot - to convey the sense of disorientation that desmond was experiencing.

Sam G
05-26-2006, 02:45 AM
Kelvin said the map was Radzinski's idea and that he had near a photographic memory.

eYe_M_siCk
05-26-2006, 02:50 AM
why was he painting it without the black lights on? wouldn't it have been alot easier if he could see it?

Space
05-26-2006, 02:53 AM
Kelvin said the map was Radzinski's idea and that he had near a photographic memory.As an aside, I believe that Radzinski is the "S. R." that was mentioned in one of the log books found in the pile of tubes that Kate read from.

topher33
05-26-2006, 08:44 AM
why was he painting it without the black lights on? wouldn't it have been alot easier if he could see it?

That's my question. The black light had to be there at that time because they were using detergent to paint with. How could the parts Kelvin added have been drawn or written correctly. Kelvin had to have visually seen the map at some point to be able to pick up where the other guy left off.

You have to assume that later, after Kelvin died, that Desmond did some exploring and added things to the map to. So at some point Des had to flip on the black light at least once to get an idea of what was on it.

It just doesn't make sense, why would he go through the trouble of painting on it without the light on.

walterneff
05-26-2006, 08:55 AM
Maybe what's more important is this: What PART of the map was he actually painting? Screencap anyone?

ame en peine
05-26-2006, 09:14 AM
Sorry, but this whole concept eluded me as well. Maybe I missed something but it didn't make sense to me either.

If they wanted to draw a map, why not just draw a map?

As posted prior, why do it without the black lights on? They obviously had a working knowledge of how to override the electrical circuits by virtue of the fact that's how they brought the blast doors down. They would certainly know how to turn on the black lights.

In the end I choose to believe that this was not a random event, nor are many of the events which brought people to the island. I'm a big believer that things are planned well in advance there, and what the islanders are believing to be fate may actually be a very carefully laid out design coming into action. ( Order is found in the chaos. )

terminalskeptik
05-26-2006, 09:17 AM
Why are you so sure that more than one person came out to rescue Des on the beach? It was only ever Kelvin, the scene was jumpy and meant to be from the perspective of Des with a head injury.

Lost in Hoboken
05-26-2006, 09:24 AM
You have to assume that later, after Kelvin died, that Desmond did some exploring and added things to the map to. So at some point Des had to flip on the black light at least once to get an idea of what was on it..

Actually, given the timeframe, it is unlikely that Desmond would have had time to explore and add to the map. He came back to the hatch on the same day the survivors crashed. After that he was in a depression and thinking of suicide it seems, until locke banged on the door which saved his life as he said. Not to mention that locke and boone were in that area most of the time and would have noticed someone out and exploring. Then ,of course, locke blew open the hatch. Just my opinion, but it doesn't seem likely that he added to it.

colin72
05-26-2006, 09:27 AM
Sorry, but this whole concept eluded me as well. Maybe I missed something but it didn't make sense to me either.

If they wanted to draw a map, why not just draw a map?

As posted prior, why do it without the black lights on? They obviously had a working knowledge of how to override the electrical circuits by virtue of the fact that's how they brought the blast doors down. They would certainly know how to turn on the black lights.


Great points! I didn't get this whole thign either. It just doesn't make sense.


Actually, I don't think we'll ever know why the map just wasn't put onto paper, why it was painted on a wall or why they didn't paint it with the blacklights on.

I think the writer's simply decided the glow in the dark map was a cool idea and so they went with it despite the fact that it actualy made no sense for it be to done that way on a wall.

diazepam_paradise
05-26-2006, 09:28 AM
"They obviously had a working knowledge of how to override the electrical circuits by virtue of the fact that's how they brought the blast doors down. They would certainly know how to turn on the black lights."

Yes man. And i was thinking.. it is obvious that the Fake Henry Gale knew those electrical circuits and he was able to activate the lockdown while locked at his 'cell'. The question is how could he know that? No one could learn how to do it just by watching by the cameras at 'the pearl' or something.

Not only that.. the fake Henry Gale knew how to turn the black light on also, but he did this out of the cell.

riverrat
05-26-2006, 09:29 AM
It makes sense that the map was being painted in the black-light (invisible) ink if Kelvin and Radzinski knew (suspected) that they were being watched on the cameras and didn't want the watchers to see what they were creating.

colin72
05-26-2006, 09:52 AM
It makes sense that the map was being painted in the black-light (invisible) ink if Kelvin and Radzinski knew (suspected) that they were being watched on the cameras and didn't want the watchers to see what they were creating.

Wouldn't it have been much easier to draw a map on paper? They could have drawn a map on paper without anyone knowing what they were doing.

Why paint on a wall with an invisible substance and let the people watching you know you were intentionally being secretive so they couldn't see? That's like saying we know we're being watched and now we're doing something we don't want you to know about. Besides, anyone watching someone paint on walls could have made out certain things they were writing; letters, symbols, words.

Pyreeds
05-26-2006, 09:58 AM
I'm not much of a chemist, but Kelvin was glancing at the wall at an angle. Maybe he was able to pick up certain details of the map and know what he was writing or drawing. It could be one can see enough details of the map. I also agree that its a better way to keep details secret from watchers. Yes, they will know something is going on, but its not like they are going to come knocking to check up on the group.

Who's to say that Kelvin was not also Radzniack (spelling?) and lying to Desmond about the death? Mabye that's why he could paint without the lights with his photographic memory. If he Kelvin is Joe Inman and not some twin then he's obviously a pretty smart guy. That could have been paint as well on the supposed blood spot too.

How did he know where to find Desmond? Why maintain the illusion of an illness on the island when is unsure of Desmond's boat or arrival? If he knew about Desmond and his boat then it would make sense to begin the illusion to keep Desmond in the hatch and prepare his sucessor.

colin72
05-26-2006, 10:11 AM
How did he know where to find Desmond? Why maintain the illusion of an illness on the island when is unsure of Desmond's boat or arrival? If he knew about Desmond and his boat then it would make sense to begin the illusion to keep Desmond in the hatch and prepare his sucessor.


I assumed he accidentally found Desmond while he was outside without the contamination suit and then he put the suit on to take Desmond into the hatch in case Desmond regained conciousness and saw him during the process.

LatinoGhost
05-26-2006, 10:15 AM
Who's to say that Kelvin was not also Radzniack (spelling?) and lying to Desmond about the death? Mabye that's why he could paint without the lights with his photographic memory. If he Kelvin is Joe Inman and not some twin then he's obviously a pretty smart guy. That could have been paint as well on the supposed blood spot too.


Perhaps he has multiple personality disorder? And believes he was with a Hatch mate, but really it was just himself? That would be interesting.

bakerboys
05-26-2006, 10:27 AM
I belive that Kelvin was unhappy with his decision to join the DHARMA Initiative and could not 'get out'. He said something to Desmond along the lines of "...and that's when I decided to join the great DHARMA Initiative." and sarcastically added "Thank you. Namaste." In the close captioning these words were even italicized.

ray flagg
05-26-2006, 10:40 AM
Are we sure the blast door is visible from the camera feed in the pearl? What if the blast door map is in a blind spot and that is why Rad+Kelvin chose to paint it there? And if I'm right about the blind spot then turning on the black lights would alert whoever was in the pearl that they were up to something. Painting the map without turning on the lights would be the only way to keep it a secret from the others.

Sam G
05-26-2006, 11:28 PM
Are we sure the blast door is visible from the camera feed in the pearl? What if the blast door map is in a blind spot and that is why Rad+Kelvin chose to paint it there? And if I'm right about the blind spot then turning on the black lights would alert whoever was in the pearl that they were up to something. Painting the map without turning on the lights would be the only way to keep it a secret from the others.

http://www.lost-media.com/modules.php?name=coppermine&file=displayimage&album=1064&pos=398 This is the angle of the camera. I don't think you can see the blast door.

acerbaluna
05-27-2006, 09:09 AM
I'm glad they did a close up on the laundry detergent, it certainly answered how the writing was put on there. Congrats to all those who guessed correctly after Lockdown!!!!!

YAY, like me! Hah! I was obsessing over what they must have used on the blast door in that episode, and I got quite a few irritated replies that "nobody cares about this topic" and that it didn't matter HOW the map got drawn, just that it was there. I absolutely loved the laundry detergent reference in the show (to the point where I was bouncing up and down in my seat hollering "I KNEW it!")- problem is, it still doesn't make sense! Laundry detergent only glows a bluish white color, in my experience. How'd they make all those different pinky and yellowy colors?

As posted prior, why do it without the black lights on? They obviously had a working knowledge of how to override the electrical circuits by virtue of the fact that's how they brought the blast doors down. They would certainly know how to turn on the black lights.

This really rankled me too during the finale- it doesn't make sense, so here's my attempt to break it down as logically as i can:

Choice #1 is that the blast door mechanisms and the blacklight circuits were connected (like they initially appeared to be during the food drop during 'Lockdown')- if this is the case, they should have automatically come on whenever the blast doors were closed, which wasn't the case in the season finale. So, scratch choice #1. Choice #2 is that they're seperate, and the unholy UnHenry was responsible for making the blacklights come on so that Locke would see the map. In this case, the blacklights could only be turned on deliberately or in cases of power failure. If the blacklights only came on during power failures, why would the mapmakers choose to draw the map in a medium only really visible via an unreliable and random light source? So, it seems that the mapmakers must have known about the blacklights because they could turn them on and off at will.

Several people were previously therorizing that the blast door map was drawn in invisible ink, visible only with a blacklight, because the mapmakers didn't want the process and the map itself to be viewed on a video camera (which would assumedly power out along with everything else). Like 'ray flagg' said, they didn't necessarily need to hide their activities by killing the camera feed, because they could have been out of camera range (btw- how would they know where the camera range was??) and consequently capable of drawing their map in full light in secret, so the power must have been killed solely to activate the blacklights. But 'ray flagg' also mentioned, perhaps they didn't want to overuse their blacklight capabilities because that would seem suspicious to the 'others' if their video camera feed kept getting killed. So far this is logical (assuming the mapmakers could somehow tell exactly where they were being videotaped)... but in this case... WHEN would the mapmakers feel confident enough to chance turning the blacklights on so they could look at their map? If they didn't want to risk turning the blacklights on, why even bother drawing the map in a blacklight medium?

A thought just occured to me. Kelvin was apparently an active member of the Dharma initative- and knew what he was doing in the hatch, pressing the button, etc. Kelvin knew the truth about a lot of things, because as we all learned, the button DOES do something, and there IS a major electromagnetic thingamajig going on there that will seriously misbehave if the button isn't pressed, and so forth. If Kelvin is a Dharma boy, then he may have known that he was being videotaped- he could have believed it was just for security purposes, or he knew about the Pearl "experiment" that was in progress. So, the mapmakers may have been hiding the map either so that the Pearl inhabitants wouldn't realize the magnitude of the 'experiment' they may have been part of... or.... or, something!

Also! As we found out, Kelvin had been secretly working on Desmond's sailboat and fixing it up during the whole time that Desmond thought Kelvin was doing.. whatever.. outside. If fixing up the sailboat is what Kelvin had been so busy doing, what was Kelvin adding to the map when we saw him draw on the map?? Was he exploring AND fixing the boat at the same time? Seems like if he was fixing up a boat to escape in, he wouldn't really have been concentrating on exploring and adding to the map if he believed he'd be able to escape the island. Maybe Kelvin was just "refreshing" the map lines by painting over them, b/c the brilliance of laundry detergent under blacklight does fade pretty quickly over time. Kelvin could have been refreshing the map so that Desmond would have it for reference, b/c Kelvin was planning on leaving soon via the sailboat. I dunno. Another point that totally doesn't make sense.. great!

I'm not much of a chemist, but Kelvin was glancing at the wall at an angle. Maybe he was able to pick up certain details of the map and know what he was writing or drawing. It could be one can see enough details of the map. I also agree that its a better way to keep details secret from watchers. Yes, they will know something is going on, but its not like they are going to come knocking to check up on the group.

Laundry detergent does leave a soapy residue, which can be viewed in light from an angle- I didn't think of this possibility during the episode, but it makes sense now. Seriously, it's impossible that Kelvin could have worked on that map from memory- I don't think even people with photographic memory can remember exactly where something in "invisible ink" is drawn when they can't see it. So, your guess is a pretty darn good guess, I think.

I suppose the mapmakers could have just been looking at their map this way, and didn't really look at the map via blacklight- maybe Kelvin didn't even know it was visible via blacklight. They could have been using laundry detergent simply because it was a liquidy substance that was always available, and could be kind of seen from a certain angle, but was still mostly invisible. But, yeah... why not just draw the map on paper while sitting in front of the blast door if they want to escape camera scrunity? Unless they were drawing the map on the blast door for the benefit of future hatch occupants... but why would they even care about the future hatch occupants?

I just thought of something else, to argue with one of my own statements up above :) If they weren't turning on the blacklights b/c they didn't want the 'others' to be suspicious if the video camera feed kept getting killed... wouldn't frequently activating the blast doors in itself have been suspicious behavior, because I'm sure that one of the camera feeds could pick up on the blast door closing, maybe from the outside .... I just don't think there was only one camera in the hatch, because only observing the activites in one room would be totally pointless both from the Pearl station "experiment" POV and the allmight Dharma monitoring POV.

By the way... has anyone theorized that UnHenry could be Radzinski? That'd explain how he knew about the map, and how to trigger the blacklights so it could be visible. Either that, or the map was visible via video camera all this time, and UnHenry is a former Pearl inhabitant and/or Dharma bigwig who saw everything on video.

Sorry for the insanely long, convoluted post... this is just something that's driving me crazy, that doesn't make sense whatsoever :) I just had to throw out all the thoughts running through my head to try to make them fit logically... or at least have someone else figure it out! :)

Ama1
05-27-2006, 10:09 AM
Maybe they painted the map with invisible ink because at first they did not trust the other 'inmates' in the hatch.

acerbaluna : interesting theory about Henry being Radzinsky !
Personnaly I think he is a bit "young" to be him. I can easily see someone like Jack's dad or even Hanso himself beeing Radzinsky.

LOLOLi
05-27-2006, 10:25 AM
Perhaps he has multiple personality disorder? And believes he was with a Hatch mate, but really it was just himself? That would be interesting.

That's a good point, maybe the visual effects that multiplied Kelvin when he found Desmond was a way of the creators to imply that. I think Kelvin was a very disturbed man. The isloation in the hatch made him very disturbed (look what it did to Desmond, who wasn't alone there most of the time), and his military history sure contributed to that. Maybe he was on an early stages of paranoid schizophrenia and the painting on the wall with detergent was one of the symptoms (Think of "A Beautul Mind" for reference). :o

Herk
05-27-2006, 10:40 AM
I think Kelvin used invisible ink so that the cameras wouldn't see what he was doing. I think the map was left as a secret message to anyone who was caught in a real lockdown. Kelvin disabled the black light for the painting episodes on purpose. He thought it would be Des who would be in a lockdown alone someday. Why? because he was out fixing Desmond's boat for like three years. He was planning an escape. The boat was obviously stocked with food and liquer with Dharma labels. Kelvin must have been stocking it for himself.

Why was Dharma providing so much liquer?

morpheus917
05-27-2006, 12:44 PM
Wouldn't it have been much easier to draw a map on paper? They could have drawn a map on paper without anyone knowing what they were doing.

Why paint on a wall with an invisible substance and let the people watching you know you were intentionally being secretive so they couldn't see? That's like saying we know we're being watched and now we're doing something we don't want you to know about. Besides, anyone watching someone paint on walls could have made out certain things they were writing; letters, symbols, words.

But you seemingly answer your own question: When is the only time we can 'see' the map? When the blacklight is on. When is the blacklight on? If something is going on that the people inside aren't meant to be around and need to be herded into the hatch (i.e.-- food drop, EM blast, etc.) Maybe the cameras are affected by the EM burst and therfore don't work for a while, giving the trapped person free reign to look at the map.

If you wrote in a piece of paper, they could sneak in and take it. They can't take the whole blast door without exposing themselves--and part of the experiment is that the people think that they are alone on this remote island.

Also:
1)kelvin was seen with his head against the blast door looking at it--showing that, from up close, he could see the light reflecting off of the detergent (or something similar) and could see where he left off.
2)As he is writing the new stuff, the detergent is still wet--so it can be seen by him at close range.(Wet your finger and write on the wall. Even though the water is clear, you can still see what you wrote.)
100%
By the way... has anyone theorized that UnHenry could be Radzinski?
But what about the 'stain' on the ceiling where he had blown his brains out??
Unless, of course, Kelvin lied about that too.... but still....

Sam G
05-27-2006, 05:24 PM
The Blast Door is not seen on the camera.

http://www.cs.iastate.edu/~andorfc/paint.html partway down is the layout of the hatch. The camera looks over the kitchen area to the booth. http://www.lost-media.com/modules.php?name=coppermine&file=displayimage&album=1064&pos=398 the angle of the camera does not change. There were 9 monitors one of them showed the Swan Station. One angle, one room. We do not have any proof that there are cameras anywhere else in the hatch.

There was also one camera watching the people in the Pearl.

LordoftheFiles
05-27-2006, 06:45 PM
I think Kelvin used invisible ink so that the cameras wouldn't see what he was doing. I think the map was left as a secret message to anyone who was caught in a real lockdown.

I agree. And I think the blast door was meant to be a permanent map for those to come after Kelvin and even Desmond. I think Radzinsky started it for Kelvin because he knew he was going to kill himself and leave Kelvin alone to solve the mysteries of the island. Kelvin was doing the same thing for Desmond. Kelvin knew he was leaving and he wanted to give Desmond as much information as he could before he left. It was a way of safely passing the torch from one button-pusher to the next.

ame en peine
05-28-2006, 08:28 PM
By the way... has anyone theorized that UnHenry could be Radzinski? That'd explain how he knew about the map, and how to trigger the blacklights so it could be visible. Either that, or the map was visible via video camera all this time, and UnHenry is a former Pearl inhabitant and/or Dharma bigwig who saw everything on video.


YES! I absolutely think UnHenry is Radzinski. I was just searching for this thread topic, and if this wasn't being discussed I was going to start one (there's just too many but this seems thread-worthy)

Add to your reasons...

I believe the others are ex-Dharmas who rebelled/escaped.

The "stain" story and much of what Kelvin said to Desmond seemed staged. Of course Kelvin wouldn't tell Desmond that my ex-partner escaped/left. It would lead to way too many questions, and plant a seed in Desmond's head that escape is a possibility.

He's constantly saying "We're the good guys", which implies a conflict with at least two sides.

It think UnHenry wanted to be caught, so he could infiltrate the hatch, and allow the black light to go on so Locke could see the map. Which would plant a seed in Locke's head that there are other parts of the island (Locke's a seeker and Fenry knows it). Which would lead to Locke questioning the whole point of pushing a button, which of course leads to what happened in the finale by not pushing a button.

Yes, yes and yes.

As a side note and in real life, Edward Raczynski was one of the final Presidents of Poland in Exile. Which speaks of social uprising, etc.. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edward_Raczynski_%281891-1993%29

morpheus917
05-30-2006, 11:42 AM
There were 9 monitors one of them showed the Swan Station. One angle, one room. We do not have any proof that there are cameras anywhere else in the hatch.
And there's nothing that says there CAN'T be more cameras--at least there might have been previously. Since the other screens in the pearl were static/blank, we don't know if there are other cameras in the Swan..or maybe cameras in other hatches. But since the video implied that the Pearl people were watching other people who were under the impression that what they were doing was of the utmost importance, it makes one think that at least SOME of the other cameras were in the Swan.

Väinämoinen
05-30-2006, 12:11 PM
I think we can assume that Kelvin, at least, sussed out the cameras on his first day there, having experience as an undercover agent.

Maybe if you mix a bit of paint with the detergent it will glow in color, but won't be too visible, since the blast door is a dark color.

But one point that I think has been missed, is why was there a black light at all? We have emergency lights in our building but they're, you know, visible when they come on.

Doesn't it seem likely that the same person who decided to paint in laundry detergent on the wall also rigged the black lights?

And I don't get how Henry triggered the lock-down or turned on the black lights while he was locked in the vault. The blast-door map, at least, believes that the lock-down is related to the restocking and happens regularly: "activity minimal during lock-down and restocking procedures"; "PRD every 6-8 months".

--Väi

colin72
05-30-2006, 12:55 PM
But you seemingly answer your own question: When is the only time we can 'see' the map? When the blacklight is on. When is the blacklight on? If something is going on that the people inside aren't meant to be around and need to be herded into the hatch (i.e.-- food drop, EM blast, etc.) Maybe the cameras are affected by the EM burst and therfore don't work for a while, giving the trapped person free reign to look at the map.
First, you're assuming the cameras don't work during an EM burst (and how would anyone painting the door know that). Regardless, why wouldn't the cameras work during a food drop (and how would anyone painting the door know that)?

And anyway, what's the point of showing the map to people for a few moments during a lockdown? Locke could hardly remember what he saw. He certainly couldn't read any details.



If you wrote in a piece of paper, they could sneak in and take it. They can't take the whole blast door without exposing themselves--and part of the experiment is that the people think that they are alone on this remote island.
Yes, they could sneak in and steal paper unless you made some effort to hide it or keep it on you at all times if it's that important. Regardless, can't they just as easily sneak in and pour or brush detergent over the door and destroy the map in a matter of seconds? They could easily wipe out hours of hard work. So why not draw it on paper? Why not draw multiple copies?


It just seems like it would have been mush easier to have the map on paper. At this point, to me it looks like TPTB just wanted to make a cool glow in the dark map despite the fact that it was illogical.



http://www.lost-media.com/modules.php?name=coppermine&file=displayimage&album=1064&pos=398 This is the angle of the camera. I don't think you can see the blast door.
The Blast Door is not seen on the camera.
http://www.cs.iastate.edu/~andorfc/paint.html (http://www.cs.iastate.edu/%7Eandorfc/paint.html) partway down is the layout of the hatch. The camera looks over the kitchen area to the booth. http://www.lost-media.com/modules.php?name=coppermine&file=displayimage&album=1064&pos=398 the angle of the camera does not change. There were 9 monitors one of them showed the Swan Station. One angle, one room. We do not have any proof that there are cameras anywhere else in the hatch.
.

So they put only one camera in one room that shows one angle? We don't know that there weren't othe cameras. In fact there's good evidence that there are other camera in the hatch.

In the finale when Kate picks up a notebook from the pile they find beside the pnuematic tube and reads:

"SR moves ping pong table again, takes shower".

Now look at the screenshot of the camera angle you posted in your first link above and then look at the layout of the hatch you posted in the second link.

How did someone know that SR moved the ping pong table (again) and that SR took a shower if there's one camera in one room and shows one angle?

tpeltz1
05-30-2006, 02:31 PM
In the finale when Kate picks up a notebook from the pile they find beside the pnuematic tube and reads:
SR moves ping pong table again, takes shower".



Doesn't moving the ping pong table let you into the under the floor override room?

I don't think the black light is tied into the lockdown at all. It came on when the timer reached zero or close to zero right? You hear the clicking noises of the timer flipping to hyroglyphics and then the blacklight comes on. Can't exacly remember, but it was just before the door went back up. So you have to be in lockdown and system failure to see the map.

morodrim
05-30-2006, 02:32 PM
One angle, one room. We do not have any proof that there are cameras anywhere else in the hatch.

Of course we don't, but there's definitely implication. Recall the Pearl orientation video. Dr. Wickman/Candle mentions the Pearl inhabitants will monitoring an experiment in progress. A single experiment. It doesn't mention multiple experiments or activities around the island. Just an experiment. Also from the link, it shows the kitchen and the table and the food storage room, but remember that Kate read a line where 'soandso' plays ping pong. This would indicate more than one camera in the Swan. Plus, it makes sense having enough angles to cover a majority of the Swan, else it'd prove to be a lousy way to monitor the activity going on with just one static camera.

As for the whole reasoning behind it, here's my take:

Maybe the Kelvin and Radczinski suspected they were being watched. Maybe they were put into a situation they didn't quite fully understand. Or maybe they were "sent in" to infiltrate the Dharma initiative and find out what's going on, only to realize they got more than what they bargained for. Either way, something prompted them to start gathering intel and surveying the island. But they needed to do it without letting whomever they think's watching know what's exactly up. But here's the dilemma: they need a large surface to use, but still need to keep what they're doing as secret as possible. This is where the blast doors come into play. If K & R suspect someone is watching, then they'll have to assume the observers would notice if they're drawing something as big as the map. Doubtful they could hide something like that hidden. So what to do? Put it on a surface only you know how to access on demand (hacking the lockdown sequence) using a medium that's only visible by an extreme angle or via blacklight (for the times where they're sure the cameras are "off"). So in this way, the observers know that they're painting something on the blast door, but they can't tell what it is. Not only can't they tell, but they can't sneak in and see it at will since the blast door would be retracted. In other words, using the blast doors tips off the observers that they're up to something, but leaves the observers helpless in figuring out what it is.

cyanT
05-30-2006, 03:06 PM
there are some things to consider about the map

"i am here" instead of "you are here" - is that a sign that raczinski was having amnesia... hmm

same goes for the big "?" in the middle - was he informing himself that that is what he's looking for... hmm

i know from working with fluorescent microscopes that cameras don't pick up on UV light (unless they are equiped to do so) but clearly capture fluorescence. so this can be a display for the subjects in the pearl during the official lockdown - all they would see is a dark room with a glowing map. this explains the "i am here" and "?" as the subjects in the pearl would be exposed to the actual nature of the experiment. i can be wrong, but if i was doing a display in the lines of "i know you are watching me but do you know what for?" that is something i might draw :cool:

merew
05-30-2006, 03:33 PM
The map was hidden on the blast door so that it would serve as a dramatic reveal to Locke. The reason it was invisible is so the Henry Gale character didn't see it while he was tending to a trapped Locke, otherwise they would have had to TALK about it...which is never done by anybody. The map was only revealed once the timer had reached zero, triggering the black lights, and Henry had climbed through the air conduit at Lockes behest, finally setting up a reason for Locke to be alone and viewing the map.

Its called a dramatic plot device. The end result is cool and mysterious. When you work backwards and try expain how it got there and why, its starts to fall apart. This is called plot hole. When it doesn't quite gel with how the blast doors seem to work (the timer reaching zero doesn't seem to trigger them) this is called a contradiction.

BAN
05-30-2006, 03:35 PM
Doesn't moving the ping pong table let you into the under the floor override room?

Desmond moved the ping pong table to get to the book to get the key. He moved a computer to get to the hatch in the floor.

porkinz
05-30-2006, 05:08 PM
there are some things to consider about the map

"i am here" instead of "you are here" - is that a sign that raczinski was having amnesia... hmm

same goes for the big "?" in the middle - was he informing himself that that is what he's looking for... hmm

i know from working with fluorescent microscopes that cameras don't pick up on UV light (unless they are equiped to do so) but clearly capture fluorescence. so this can be a display for the subjects in the pearl during the official lockdown - all they would see is a dark room with a glowing map. this explains the "i am here" and "?" as the subjects in the pearl would be exposed to the actual nature of the experiment. i can be wrong, but if i was doing a display in the lines of "i know you are watching me but do you know what for?" that is something i might draw :cool:

Probably the most logical explanation I have read to date about this. Backed up with evidence no less. Good thinking! I just wish I had something to add to it. The computer must not be used for anything else such as communicating. Maybe just maybe the painting was meant only for the inhabitants of the Pearl station. "I am here" and the ? drives that point home.

Then again that assumes that they know where the camera viewing the doors is situated and know that it's there and know someone is watching it who cares about a map or communicating about a map, and why not draw a map on paper and show it to the camera? and why did Rat kill himself and Kelvin try and fix up the boat if there were others unless they had all went others on them and joined Fenry and why does every answer bring up a hundred more questions?

morpheus917
05-30-2006, 11:39 PM
Regardless, can't they just as easily sneak in and pour or brush detergent over the door and destroy the map in a matter of seconds?
How do you sneak in and destroy it without those big blast doors coming down and alarms going off?!?!

Also, I agree with those who state that Fenry revealed the map to Locke on purpose. Why?
a) By doing so, he plants the seed of curiousity in Locke, knowing that Locke will want to investigate.
b) We saw Locke getting ticked because he wanted Fenry to tell him if he really DID push the button.
c) Locke finally comes to terms with 'maybe I don't have to push this damn thing'.
d) The button isn't pushed and all Hell breaks loose with the magnetic stuff.
e) The small smirk on Fenry's face at the Ferry--a bit of self-satisfaction that Locke did exactly as Fenry thought he would do.
100%
Also, in answer to the 'why do they even have a black light in there' question:
Aren't Black Lights just giving off UV rays? If that's right, then maybe being locked in that room is a precaution against something catastrophic that might mean they are locked in for long periods of time. Without sunlight, they could become very ill. And I think UV rays imitate the light that they would need. But check to see if that's right or not....I'm not sure. I'm just checking.

cyanT
06-06-2006, 08:23 AM
...and why not draw a map on paper and show it to the camera?

because i assume that raczynski knew that everything the swan subjects "do" will be documented, so drawing a map on paper and showing it to the camera would mean that it's game over - "s.r. draws something on paper and shows it to the camera - it's a map; s.r. knows about us" would be written in the notebook. raczynski probably watched the pearl video and found a loophole - drawing in detergent on the door. during lockdown he will not be "doing" anything, yet the map will be visible to the pearl subjects. it's a personal message for the pearl subjects that they don't have to document acording to the pearl video, yet they realise that something isn't quite right and start to wonder about the nature of the experiment that they are part of ;)

Edit: what if that is the pearl experiment?! :eek2: