Most of us will never forget this scene between Desmond with Jack. The lines are fading from memory so I thought I would bring them back alive for everyone.....................

Desmond to Jack:

"You alright, brother?

Take it easy. Keep the weight off. Here, let me have a look. Does this hurt? You haven't sprained it then. I don't fancy your chances of catching up with me tonight, though.

Aye, of course you weren't.

I was almost a doctor once.

You a doctor then? So what's your excuse?

To run like the devil's chasing you. My excuse. I'm training.

For a race around the world. Impressive, I know. So your excuse better be good brother.

Ah, a girl, right?

Ah, but a girl patient. What's her name?

What'd you do to her then?

You must have done something worthy of this self flagellation.

Well, right.Just one thing. What if you did fix her?

But what if you did?

I don't? Why not?

Oh...and you don't believe in miracles? Right. Well then, I'm going to give you some advice anyway. You have to lift it up.

Your ankle. You've gotta keep it elevated. It's been nice chatting.

Jack, I'm Desmond. Well, good luck, brother. See you in another life, yeah? :thumbup:

I don't fancy your chances of catching up with me tonight, though.
Ah! Another good Desmond line! (Like there were any bad ones! :D)

Thanks, Desmondslass! :hug:

Quite a night for him: a good workout, Penny comes back into his life, he meets Jack! Wish that I could have a night turn out so well!

Wish my nights were just half that exciting! The one line I never caught was "You must have done something worthy of this self flagellation." Don't remember this one at all.
Any thoughts? :cnfused1::cnfused1:

Desmond's referring to Jack's running like the devil was after him. Something was bugging Jack, and he was using this workout to try to channel his frustration in another direction. When he mentioned a patient (and both Desmond and we could tell it was a FEMALE patient! :D), Desmond made the connection and tried to get Jack to open up about it! After all, Desmond's learned by hard experience that trying to keep things inside you only results in hurting yourself the most!

Read through the whole scene again--both men's lines, the race they were in, everything. I think you'll see what I mean.

Desmond's referring to Jack's running like the devil was after him. Something was bugging Jack, and he was using this workout to try to channel his frustration in another direction. When he mentioned a patient (and both Desmond and we could tell it was a FEMALE patient! :D), Desmond made the connection and tried to get Jack to open up about it! After all, Desmond's learned by hard experience that trying to keep things inside you only results in hurting yourself the most!

Read through the whole scene again--both men's lines, the race they were in, everything. I think you'll see what I mean.


Right, Des was a man on a mission that night. He knew that for the most part when a man knocks themselves out like that, it's usually over a woman. Jack is obsessive about "fixing" things as it is, but add the woman factor and you've got the self flagellation.

I still like to think that Des has a mystical side to him, with the "lift it up" and "you don't believe in miracles" lines. After we saw the finale, it made sense to me that he
believed in miracles because he had just seen Penny and he realized she still loved him and waited for him....but I want there to be more. I think there is...he is a man of faith after all. I hope to see more of this mystical side that we saw in the stadium in S3.

I agree Flowers, Desmond was always with his miracles and faith probably this is how he made it in prison and the army. I was reading the transcript again Jack said to Desmond "Because with her situation that would be a miracle, brother." I had not realized Jack had used our Desmond's brother line. Maybe a mistake? In the line before that, Jack used "man". Anyone remember?

I agree Flowers, Desmond was always with his miracles and faith probably this is how he made it in prison and the army. I was reading the transcript again Jack said to Desmond "Because with her situation that would be a miracle, brother." I had not realized Jack had used our Desmond's brother line. Maybe a mistake? In the line before that, Jack used "man". Anyone remember?

Oh yes, Lass..I do remember. Jack was using "Brother" in almost a mocking tone to Des at that point, because Des was still questioning him about his lack of faith that Sarah could indeed be better. Jack was certain that the surgery didn't "fix" her and Des disagreed so Jack got a little snarky with our Des' favorite word..."brother"

Oh yes, Lass..I do remember. Jack was using "Brother" in almost a mocking tone to Des at that point, because Des was still questioning him about his lack of faith that Sarah could indeed be better. Jack was certain that the surgery didn't "fix" her and Des disagreed so Jack got a little snarky with our Des' favorite word..."brother"
Yes, now I remember. He was making a joke of my Desmond's brother word......... :nono:

But then, Desmond turned out to be right about the miracle, didn't he? :biggrin:

I'd love to see the stadium conversation pick up where it left off. Then Jack could sheepishly apologize for being so snarky--and admit that miracle or not, Sarah's recovery was pretty amazing.

Jack, still did not get the idea of miracles from Desmond even after Sarah's recovery. Does Echo have to hit him with his stick or what? Jack needs Desmond's advice. I wish he would take it.............:ohwell:

Jack needs Desmond's advice. I wish he would take it.
That's why I envision a Stadium Conversation, part II, once Jack is rescued from The Others! Assuming Desmond is alive.
Which we know he is! :biggrin:

Did everyone see the look Jack had on his face after he and Des shook hands and Des said his "see you in another life" line?

For a second, it almost looked like Jack really heard Des and wondered why this guy had so much faith to tell a complete stranger that he should believe in miracles. I think Jack wondered about it....for about a second..(haha)..but he did wonder......

For a second, it almost looked like Jack really heard Des and wondered why this guy had so much faith to tell a complete stranger that he should believe in miracles. I think Jack wondered about it....for about a second..(haha)..but he did wonder.
And had to wait some 4 years before he could say "YOU!" to him in the Hatch! :D

So many "random" meetings turn out to be JUST what you needed at the time. The stadium meeting of Jack and Desmond was one of those!

That's why I envision a Stadium Conversation, part II, once Jack is rescued from The Others! Assuming Desmond is alive.
Which we know he is! :biggrin:

But they had that conversation (kinda) when meeting in the woods after Des running away in Orientation. It was like, Jack sort of admitted to the miracle, but he also admitted he could not enjoy it, he lost the woman in the end.
"Is she ok? The girl?"
(Jack: "It doesn't matter!")
"What happened to her?"
("It doesn't matter!!"... "I married her!" (crying))
"And..You are not married to her anymore, than?" (pitying, smirking, hesitating)
"See you in another life, yeah?"

IMO this conversation determined him to accept to the button-pushing in the end. He had to admit that miracles happen, and he just met the "man of faith" who 3 years ago showed that to him.:biggrin:

Good point Lea Lost never even thought of that....... Desmond might have influenced Jack to push the button, so he did take his advice maybe? Glad you all have so many great ideas today I was beginning to wonder yesterday when no one showed up. I creeped around in Sawyer's and Jack's camp and things were pretty slow there too. So, I did not feel soooo bad.......... :shock1:

Good point Lea Lost never even thought of that....... Desmond might have influenced Jack to push the button, so he did take his advice maybe? Glad you all have so many great ideas today I was beginning to wonder yesterday when no one showed up. I creeped around in Sawyer's and Jack's camp and things were pretty slow there too. So, I did not feel soooo bad.......... :shock1:

Yes, that is my way of seeing it, Jack sort of took his advice for once. I already said that on one thread, that Jack was so annoying and hysterical in these first eppys, and the only one who could reason with him was Desmond! With a few words like: "In about 15 minutes you will be ether very right, or very wrong, brotha!" he could get to him when nobody else could, not even darling Kate.

Sorry Desmondslass for being bored yesterday. I sadly cannot come everyday as I wish I could... and as I am in Europe many times I just miss you folks...

Desmond: " I was almost a doctor once." Do you think this is how Pen and Desmond met or maybe that's what he did in the army. Any other ideas? :football:

It's the dog days of summer, too. No one wants to do anything, not even post! :D

As Jack never told Desmond that Sarah recovered, I don't think Jack was inspired to believe in miracles. I do believe he became committed (resigned?) to Locke organizing button-pushing shifts--or why else would he have returned to the Hatch in time to tell Locke that the last number was 42, not 32?

But that's kind of OT here. I think the best things about Desmond's time in the stadium were:

1. It gave him hope--Penny showed up; it was implied that she would wait for him.

2. He gave Jack some thoughts to chew on: maybe the girl patient would recover; it wouldn't hurt Jack to have positive thoughts. Later, when he found Sarah HAD recovered, I bet he thought back to Desmond's words! That might have had some influence on Jack's pursuing Sarah romantically.


It'd be kewl if, once Jack is back at Beach Camp (IF he is), he and Desmond could go running together daily. Have a time to burn off some steam, and have long talks, and be better friends. But I guess we have to wait till February to see if THAT happens!

Desmond: " I was almost a doctor once." Do you think this is how Pen and Desmond met or maybe that's what he did in the army. Any other ideas? :football:


Oh I like this idea, Desmondslass...I never gave much thought when Des said that to Jack (I should know better tho, shouldn't I..lol) I just assumed he joined the army. Maybe he was training to be a doctor in the Army, refused to follow an order (maybe went AWOL) and that's why he ended up in prison and dishonorably discharged.

I have to stop doing this...gives me headaches. :wacko:
100%


I think the best things about Desmond's time in the stadium were:

1. It gave him hope--Penny showed up; it was implied that she would wait for him.

2. He gave Jack some thoughts to chew on: maybe the girl patient would recover; it wouldn't hurt Jack to have positive thoughts. Later, when he found Sarah HAD recovered, I bet he thought back to Desmond's words! That might have had some influence on Jack's pursuing Sarah romantically.

1. yes..yes..yes:inlove:

2. hopefully..Jack was so full of himself in the stadium..but it did appear that he heard what Des said...a little:biggrin:

Oh I like this idea, Desmondslass...I never gave much thought when Des said that to Jack (I should know better tho, shouldn't I..lol) I just assumed he joined the army. Maybe he was training to be a doctor in the Army, refused to follow an order (maybe went AWOL) and that's why he ended up in prison and dishonorably discharged.

1. yes..yes..yes:inlove:

2. hopefully..Jack was so full of himself in the stadium..but it did appear that he heard what Des said...a little:biggrin:

Yes indeed it is a very interesting line. "Almost a doctor"... I have no idea what could that mean, it sounds very ambiguous to me. You ether are a doctor, or you aren't. It takes many years of school, training, residency to become one that is true. Maybe he started it once but never finished, who knows.


hopefully we will find out soon :biggrin:


It is interesting what STH says about Des putting the idea of romance with Sarah into Jack's head... It is very likely. And it well explains the smirk on Desmond's face in Orientation when Jack confesses that he married her :rolleyes:

No, Jack's marriage didn't have the same happy ending that Desmond had with Penny at the stadium, alas! :unhappy:

Somehow, I do not have the same feeling of a happy ending at the stadium. What did I miss? I think Desmond was risking it all just like Jack. The two of them were taking their women for granted thinking they would wait forever while they were out slaying their dragons. Most of the time this doesn't workout. Hopefully it will work for Pen and Desmond.......... :heart:

Well, Penny WAS waiting for him. And when word of his "disappearance" at sea came, she went into action, looking for him! HER choice. And since he didn't have contact with her until SHE showed up at the stadium, he was hardly "taking her for granted." Heck, for all he knew, she'd be married and expecting her first child by the time he finished the race!

Happy ending at the stadium. NOT-so-happy ending when he was, uh, LOST at sea. Happy ending on the Island, maybe?

I don't think Desmond took her for granted. But I do think he underestimated her, her love, her stubbornness. He never expected her to look him up in the first place, and even after that, when he knew she still loved him and waited for him, did not have the faith that she will wait quite that long. She is an amazing woman and her love is an amzing one, so I'm not sure anyone would have given her that much credit.


soon he will learn just what kind a woman he has ;)

Yes, he will, Lea! :biggrin:

Too bad they couldn't have reconciled that night at the stadium. She could've timed him racing up and down the aisles! :love:

Desmond to Claire (but really to Pen) "Well, maybe he knew he'd be a lousy dad.....thought he was doing what was best for you."
Lea lost that was my thought she was very dedicated and special, Penny just was not going to give up on Desmond. I can not imagine how bad she must have felt tracking down the man she loved and asking him why he had not written to her. One tough woman that Penny............

STH it would have been nice to have both of them show how much they really cared about each that night......sooooo we just have to wait to see what has happened to our Desmond on Oct 4. :sweat:
:whoa:

October 4 seems as far away to me as that night in the stadium must seem to Desmond! :down:

One thing about the stadium scene I've always enjoyed is how it demonstrated how you never know where you might meet a kindred spirit. But in Desmond's case, he met up with TWO of them that night! :biggrin:

Despite all his woes, Desmond seems to have a parallel GOOD luck streak going for him, too! :thumbsup:

Let the stadium luck last into S3 STH. Desmond seems to be at the right place at the right time, yeah he does. The coffee shop, coming back from his sail to nowhere, the stadium, and really the Daddy scene in the car. If Daddy had not showed up, Desmond would have never known the truth about what he was doing to keep Pen away from him. The scene at the stadium would never have materialized. :o

True enough, that Desmond wouldn't have chosen Charles Widmore's round-the-world race as the means to "regain his honor" had the Widmore/Desmond meeting not occurred. But it did--and VOILA! The stadium scenes! :biggrin:

Kind of neat how the writers used that night at the stadium to "bookend" Desmond's story (Eppy 1/Eppy 23)!

Let the stadium luck last into S3 STH. Desmond seems to be at the right place at the right time, yeah he does. The coffee shop, coming back from his sail to nowhere, the stadium, and really the Daddy scene in the car. If Daddy had not showed up, Desmond would have never known the truth about what he was doing to keep Pen away from him. The scene at the stadium would never have materialized. :o

Do you really think so? There are so many possibilities! He himself might have looked her up first, if Daddy didn't tell him she was going to get married. Than it indeed wouldn't have happened. But he could find that out from some other place, and than Penny still would go to him to the stadium. But I agree that it might have been different. He could have said that he did write to her every day, they could have reconciled than...

I still keep asking myself why didn't he say it. The pain in her voice asking "why didn't you write to me?" almost made him say it, but he changed his mind in the end... Whom he was protecting with that?

Whom he was protecting with that?
Not Daddy Widmore, THAT'S for sure! :10:

Do you really think so? There are so many possibilities! He himself might have looked her up first, if Daddy didn't tell him she was going to get married. Than it indeed wouldn't have happened. But he could find that out from some other place, and than Penny still would go to him to the stadium. But I agree that it might have been different. He could have said that he did write to her every day, they could have reconciled than...

I still keep asking myself why didn't he say it. The pain in her voice asking "why didn't you write to me?" almost made him say it, but he changed his mind in the end... Whom he was protecting with that?

As far as I see it, Lea...they did reconcile at the stadium by way of their little, not so criptic conversation..they knew what each other meant.

I believe he was protecting Penny when he didn't spill the beans about her father. That's what we do when we are that in love with someone...we don't want to hurt them in any way...or he wasn't going to at that point at least. It wouldn't have mattered.

Desmond was totally focused on proving himself...Penny knew that as well (remember her line "I know that you carry the weight of what happened on your shoulders and only you can take it off") so she knew that he was driven to prove himself. But on the other hand she told him that she wanted him to stay by asking.."what if you were back now?" In other words, it didn't matter to her...but he wouldn't feel worthy of her or anything thing until her got his honor back...such is the way of star-crossed lovers.

As far as I see it, Lea...they did reconcile at the stadium by way of their little, not so criptic conversation..they knew what each other meant.

I believe he was protecting Penny when he didn't spill the beans about her father. That's what we do when we are that in love with someone...we don't want to hurt them in any way...or he wasn't going to at that point at least. It wouldn't have mattered.

Desmond was totally focused on proving himself...Penny knew that as well (remember her line "I know that you carry the weight of what happened on your shoulders and only you can take it off") so she knew that he was driven to prove himself. But on the other hand she told him that she wanted him to stay by asking.."what if you were back now?" In other words, it didn't matter to her...but he wouldn't feel worthy of her or anything thing until her got his honor back...such is the way of star-crossed lovers.

Great ideas here Flowers, yes, I now see the love shorthand from last night. I think they knew they loved each other and would wait till everything was settled between them. I also believe that he was protecting Pen from her father. Desmond knew he would be going away so he needed Daddy to watch Pen. If Desmond made trouble no one would look after Pen for him. Yes, Desmond was totally into proving himself (out slaying dragons) so Pen knew she had to let him go if they had any chance of being happy together. :inlove:

Great ideas here Flowers, yes, I now see the love shorthand from last night. I think they knew they loved each other and would wait till everything was settled between them. I also believe that he was protecting Pen from her father. Desmond knew he would be going away so he needed Daddy to watch Pen. If Desmond made trouble no one would look after Pen for him. Yes, Desmond was totally into proving himself (out slaying dragons) so Pen knew she had to let him go if they had any chance of being happy together. :inlove:

...out slaying dragons..well said, Lass. And how does that old saying go.."If you truly love someone let them go....and if it's meant to be, they will come back to you"

That's our Desmond and Penny

.."If you truly love someone let them go....and if it's meant to be, they will come back to you"
Or, in Penny's case, SHE will go to where HE is (first, the stadium; now, the Island)!! :biggrin:

Sometimes, we do have to let things go. Just to see if they do come back to us. Pen already asked Desmond if he would go with her and he rejected her. Pen by following Desmond had two rejections in one night. Yet she continued to wait......................:unsure:

Sometimes, we do have to let things go. Just to see if they do come back to us. Pen already asked Desmond if he would go with her and he rejected her. Pen by following Desmond had two rejections in one night. Yet she continued to wait......................:unsure:

Yes, I see it that way too. Whatever unspoken reconciliation we count at the stadium, Desmond still rejected her and ran away to get his honour back, or slaigh dragons if you like. And still, she waits. If he had been safe some place trying to prove himself, she probably didn't. But he is off, facing all kinds of danger, and probably is considered long since dead. Fighting against all judgement and family, moving every rock until she finds the right clues, going to the moon and back for the man that ran away from her! She really must love him. :8:

Lea Lost you are right Desmond actually physically turned his back away from Pen and ran off into the darkness. She must really love him or feels guilty about something. Maybe, she is just so obsessed because she can not have him. She may want to get even with her father. What ever reason for this behavior of hers, I am sure we will all be shocked in Season 3 when we all find out. :no2::no2:

Maybe, she is just so obsessed because she can not have him.
Or, between her Daddy's standards and Desmond's pride and honor, she hasn't figured out how to get what she wants. (As we saw, she could FIND him at the stadium, but he didn't let her love for him, and not needing him to "prove" anything, bring him to just chuck the "honor" thing and go with her!) This, of course, will be a moot point once they meet again, on the Island! :inlove:

Lea Lost you are right Desmond actually physically turned his back away from Pen and ran off into the darkness. She must really love him or feels guilty about something. Maybe, she is just so obsessed because she can not have him. She may want to get even with her father. What ever reason for this behavior of hers, I am sure we will all be shocked in Season 3 when we all find out. :no2::no2:

Turning his back and running away was quite symbolic in that way.
You actually got me thinking with the guilty thing. It is a possibility, but you won't go through all that trouble just because some real or imagined wrong you did to someone that you have forgotten.
She must be obsessed with him and spoiled as she is it is very likely that this is the only time in her life when she didn't get what she wanted immediately :biggrin:

There might be a quarrel over his turning his back on her, but I'm sure they will sort things out in the end. :kiss1: It will be akward if she goes all that way just to have a fight :42fight:

Turning his back and running away was quite symbolic in that way.
You actually got me thinking with the guilty thing. It is a possibility, but you won't go through all that trouble just because some real or imagined wrong you did to someone that you have forgotten.
She must be obsessed with him and spoiled as she is it is very likely that this is the only time in her life when she didn't get what she wanted immediately :biggrin:

There might be a quarrel over his turning his back on her, but I'm sure they will sort things out in the end. :kiss1: It will be akward if she goes all that way just to have a fight :42fight:

I see it a little differently, Lea. I don't consider it turning his back on her. Yes, they are passionately in love with each other..but this is something he HAS to do. Even though she desperately wants him to stay....he wants (has) to go.

I think it's a little selfish on her part and somewhat prideful on his part. We all want, what we want, when we want it...phew, that's a lot of wants!.

If Des should stay because Penny loves him...then Penny should let Des go because she loves him...right? Same old story since the beginning of time............

ETA: I'm sure all will be fine in time...it better be!

I see it a little differently, Lea.

That's fine. There is too much agreeance and harmony in these threads IMO :biggrin: I love a good quarrell :10:(meaning polemics, not fight)

If Des should stay because Penny loves him...then Penny should let Des go because she loves him...right? Same old story since the beginning of time............

ETA: I'm sure all will be fine in time...it better be!

Yes, yes, I do know that. But still. When Claire says about her ex that he ran away because he did what was best for him, Des must have thought "Penny thinks the same thing about me, I'm sure", and maybe he is right in some way. The two situations are a bit different though. Des ran away to proove himself worthy of her, and that makes the world of a difference, because the ultimate motivation was still her, not just his own ego.
And she did not let him go because she loved him, she did it because she had no choice.

That's fine. There is too much agreeance and harmony in these threads IMO :biggrin: I love a good quarrell :10:(meaning polemics, not fight)



Yes, yes, I do know that. But still. When Claire says about her ex that he ran away because he did what was best for him, Des must have thought "Penny thinks the same thing about me, I'm sure", and maybe he is right in some way. The two situations are a bit different though. Des ran away to proove himself worthy of her, and that makes the world of a difference, because the ultimate motivation was still her, not just his own ego.
And she did not let him go because she loved him, she did it because she had no choice.

Bring it on, sista!:42fight: Hee, hee.

Agreed. When Des had his FB when he was talking with Claire, I believe he WAS kicking himself in the butt, because he knew he did what was "best for him" and was feeling guilty about it. So on that we are...:thumbsup:

But I feel that he went on the race because he needed to prove himself to himself..(did I say that right?)... and also to Widmore and also to Penny. We have to feel worthy ourselves first, before we feel be "worthy" for anyone else. I don't think he would have felt as quilty as he did , with Claire, if he DIDN"T think he was somewhat prideful or selfish in "needing" to go on the race. I think at that point, he might have been thinking.... Well, Hume you blew it...you could be with Penny right now, if you hadn't been such a thick head and did what was best for you, instead of what was best for you and Penny...

Sometimes I can't put my thought into words the way I want to...this is one of those times....did I say that right?

Bring it on, sista!:42fight: Hee, hee.

I LOVE that emoti, SLF! :biggrin:

Agreed. When Des had his FB when he was talking with Claire, I believe he WAS kicking himself in the butt, because he knew he did what was "best for him" and was feeling guilty about it. So on that we are...:thumbsup:

But I feel that he went on the race because he needed to prove himself to himself..(did I say that right?)... and also to Widmore and also to Penny. We have to feel worthy ourselves first, before we feel be "worthy" for anyone else. I don't think he would have felt as quilty as he did , with Claire, if he DIDN"T think he was somewhat prideful or selfish in "needing" to go on the race. I think at that point, he might have been thinking.... Well, Hume you blew it...you could be with Penny right now, if you hadn't been such a thick head and did what was best for you, instead of what was best for you and Penny...

Sometimes I can't put my thought into words the way I want to...this is one of those times....did I say that right?

Well, I understand you, or at least I think I do (English is my third language, so there are gaps in my knowledge sometimes ;))
I think it is hard to understand for a woman, why men have to do things for their honour. Penny sure didn't (want to) understand it. And I'm not sure I do sometimes...
But there is no living with them if they don't feel "man enough". With Des it is clear that he has been humiliated by Widmore, more than once. We don't know yet how it all started, but he was sent to prison, he was "dishonourably discharged" from the army (watch the pang on his face when the guardian says that in LTDA!); and when he finally is free, Daddy calls him a coward! It is outragous for a proud man. I find it interesting, that Widmore said to him, that he will "run away" because he was a coward, and he ran away because he wasn't one! All the same for the woman who waits (in vain) for her man...

I LOVE that emoti, SLF! :biggrin:



Well, I understand you, or at least I think I do (English is my third language, so there are gaps in my knowledge sometimes ;))
I think it is hard to understand for a woman, why men have to do things for their honour. Penny sure didn't (want to) understand it. And I'm not sure I do sometimes...
But there is no living with them if they don't feel "man enough". With Des it is clear that he has been humiliated by Widmore, more than once. We don't know yet how it all started, but he was sent to prison, he was "dishonourably discharged" from the army (watch the pang on his face when the guardian says that in LTDA!); and when he finally is free, Daddy calls him a coward! It is outragous for a proud man. I find it interesting, that Widmore said to him, that he will "run away" because he was a coward, and he ran away because he wasn't one! All the same for the woman who waits (in vain) for her man...


"But there is no living with them if they don't feel man enough"...Lea, you ARE my sister!

You have said so eloquently and accurately what I was trying to say...all of it. And English is your THIRD language?!

Bravo, Lea..you hit MY and THE nail on the head. Thank you, my friend.:hug:

[quote=slflowers101;1139527]"But there is no living with them if they don't feel man enough"...Lea, you ARE my sister!

No living without them either. I guess that is what Pen believes. That's why she is still waiting and so are we! :group:

"But there is no living with them if they don't feel man enough"...Lea, you ARE my sister!

You have said so eloquently and accurately what I was trying to say...all of it. And English is your THIRD language?!

Bravo, Lea..you hit MY and THE nail on the head. Thank you, my friend.:hug:

Well, thank you, sistah, one tries :9: :hug:

And I thought we are about to have a quarell :42fight:
:biggrin:

Well, thank you, sistah, one tries :9: :hug:

And I thought we are about to have a quarell :42fight:
:biggrin:


How can I have a :42fight: with someone who can actually say what I mean? Maybe one day, but not today. We'll have more to quarrel about when S3 starts!!:biggrin:

Oh and in the other thread, you said you still don't understand why Des didn't tell Penny that he did write to her and that her father kept the letters from her when they were talking in the stadium...I really think you answered that when you put my jumbled thoughts into words...but I can tell that you're still not buying all of it, are you?:undecide:

How can I have a :42fight: with someone who can actually say what I mean? Maybe one day, but not today. We'll have more to quarrel about when S3 starts!!:biggrin:

Oh and in the other thread, you said you still don't understand why Des didn't tell Penny that he did write to her and that her father kept the letters from her when they were talking in the stadium...I really think you answered that when you put my jumbled thoughts into words...but I can tell that you're still not buying all of it, are you?:undecide:

Oh, but I do! Just it would have been so mush easier for both of them if he said something! Easier for her; what a difference would have made to know that Desmond haven't forsaken her after all? That he thought of her all the time, wrote to her every day! He could still have his dragon-slaghing but she would have been a lot happier...

Oh, but I do! Just it would have been so mush easier for both of them if he said something! Easier for her; what a difference would have made to know that Desmond haven't forsaken her after all? That he thought of her all the time, wrote to her every day! He could still have his dragon-slaghing but she would have been a lot happier...


Oh I know...even though I know she knew he loved her..I was still screaming at the TV (in between tears)..."KISS HER, TELL HER EVERYTHING...NOW...stop being such a GUY"...

That stadium scene was pretty intense..got me going anyway..was exhausted when it was over and it wasn't even that long...

I was still screaming at the TV (in between tears)..."KISS HER, TELL HER EVERYTHING...NOW...stop being such a GUY"...
:24:

Somehow, flowers, I don't think you really want Desmond to stop being a guy. . . .:thud:

:24:

Somehow, flowers, I don't think you really want Desmond to stop being a guy. . . .:thud:


haha..no I don't want Desmond to stop being a guy...he couldn't even if he wanted to as he is THE man...and I would be waiting and looking for him just like Penny is.

However, it doesn't make us NOT want to clean their clocks every once in a while when they don't say what they should, when they should...even though it's done with love.

But we and Penny will forgive Desmond for his faux paux that night in the stadium because he is:thud:

NOW you sound more like your Desmondite self, flowers! :laughing:

Still, he could have taken SOME account for the facts. She spent all that money and determination to find him. Flew all the way to L.A. Found and wheedled that landlord. Drove to the stadium, with no idea how he'd react to seeing her.

But on his side of things, I get the feeling that if he'd hugged her instead of just wiping the tear from her face, or if he'd asked her to sit down with him and talk, he'd have broken down and tossed the whole boat race thing aside, and gone with her. But he--and she!--knew if he did that, he'd never be able to live with himself. Since he'd thrown away the opportunity to "prove" himself, to get his honor back (which, IMHO, he'd never lost in the first place).
They'd better explain A LOT in his FBs this season; how such a wonderful person can be so down on himself boggles my mind. Of course, I've had people say that to ME and my reaction is, "Me? Wonderful? C'MON!" So maybe I do understand. But I still want details!!)

NOW you sound more like your Desmondite self, flowers! :laughing:

Still, he could have taken SOME account for the facts. She spent all that money and determination to find him. Flew all the way to L.A. Found and wheedled that landlord. Drove to the stadium, with no idea how he'd react to seeing her.

But on his side of things, I get the feeling that if he'd hugged her instead of just wiping the tear from her face, or if he'd asked her to sit down with him and talk, he'd have broken down and tossed the whole boat race thing aside, and gone with her. But he--and she!--knew if he did that, he'd never be able to live with himself. Since he'd thrown away the opportunity to "prove" himself, to get his honor back (which, IMHO, he'd never lost in the first place).
They'd better explain A LOT in his FBs this season; how such a wonderful person can be so down on himself boggles my mind. Of course, I've had people say that to ME and my reaction is, "Me? Wonderful? C'MON!" So maybe I do understand. But I still want details!!)

Well, it might have something to do with:
- what happened ("I know you went away with the waigh of what happened on your shoulders")
-being sent to prison
-"dishonourably discharged" form the army
-being called a coward by his father-in-low to be (probably not for the first time ether)

You know, when people keep telling you that you are worthless, you incline to believe them. It takes many more people to convince you that you are wonderful than that you aren't... And for a man it is a necessity to proove it as well...

The more I think of it, the more Penny amazes me in this scene. How many times she must have stepped on her pride to go see Desmond...when she had no idea how he'll react! And when she knew that he still loves her, she had the wisdom to let him go, didn't pursue, plead or threaten. Strong woman with strong feelings.:kiss:

You know, when people keep telling you that you are worthless, you incline to believe them. It takes many more people to convince you that you are wonderful than that you aren't... And for a man it is a necessity to prove it as well...
No wonder Desmond and Locke (via bosses and daddy) and Desmond and Jack (daddy and daddy) clicked from the moment they met!

And, yeah, Penny must truly love him (and understand him!) to keep stepping back and waiting. . .and waiting. . .and waiting. . . .

YOU GO, GIRL!

Desmond is worth waiting for!!!

No wonder Desmond and Locke (via bosses and daddy) and Desmond and Jack (daddy and daddy) clicked from the moment they met!

And, yeah, Penny must truly love him (and understand him!) to keep stepping back and waiting. . .and waiting. . .and waiting. . . .

YOU GO, GIRL!

Thanks for the spell-check :biggrin:

It is interesting what you say about Jack and Locke. Their issues never came out, and still, it might be one more reason why they "clicked". It will be interesting to see,


with whom will Desmond click next on the island...



And Penny might be a strong person, but the reason she was able to go through all that is that:
Desmond is worth waiting for!!!

:in_love:

That's the understatement of the year, Lea and lostlocke!:biggrin:

Desmond is certainly worth waiting for...I know we all agree on that! Penny also had a lot of will power...if he were that close, looked at me that way, told me he loved me (in shorthand..lol) and brushed a tear from my cheek....well, can't say what I would have done......;)

That's the understatement of the year, Lea and lostlocke!:biggrin:

Desmond is certainly worth waiting for...I know we all agree on that! Penny also had a lot of will power...if he were that close, looked at me that way, told me he loved me (in shorthand..lol) and brushed a tear from my cheek....well, can't say what I would have done......;)

SLF! :24:

But I think you would have done the same as she did, sistah! Because if you love a guy, you must let him go! (Not before smooching him really hard though :biggrin: )

haha...you're right, of course, Lea. Especially about your last statement!

It had to happen that way at the stadium...their's is a really heart-tugging , star-crossed love story...

I thought you might agree on that ;) That's what I would have done anyway, especially after who knows how long time of separation, when he was in prison... My Desmond-love is not so platonic as you can see :rolleyes:

I myself wait so much


that first on-screen kiss! Really hope they will show that at least in a FB in S3!

The way he checked out Jack's ankle tells me he'd have been a great "patient's doctor." Nothing detached about his concern that Jack was hurt!

The way he checked out Jack's ankle tells me he'd have been a great "patient's doctor." Nothing detached about his concern that Jack was hurt!

Yes, and he looked like he knew what he was talking about. I'm sure that whatever he does it is with devotion.

He will have opportunity to "practice" while Jack is off visiting "Otherville" :biggrin:

Oh, but I do! Just it would have been so mush easier for both of them if he said something! Easier for her; what a difference would have made to know that Desmond haven't forsaken her after all? That he thought of her all the time, wrote to her every day! He could still have his dragon-slaghing but she would have been a lot happier...

Don't forget too that Desmond believes Penny is engaged to someone else now. Which I have some doubts about. So maybe part of him not telling her about the letters has to do with feeling it being kind of mute at this point. He is too honorable to try to break up a relationship even if he still loves her desperately. Maybe he was thinking that by getting his honor back in this way would make things still possible without forcefully intruding.
I believe Penny still totally loves Desmond. It's obvious from all shes gone through. Which is why I doubt she's really engaged. So maybe she has something SHE should have said as well, same as him not saying anything about the letters.

You are right about Desmond in your spoiler font, Lea. But there may be a delay:
Sayid will be sailing back for reinforcements. Desmond will be sobered up. If he's back on the beach, HE will be sailing the boat now, while Jin stays in camp with the pregnant Sun. But once this story arc is done, you are right--Desmond will be the camp doctor in Jack's absence!
Looks like fate (or Dharma/Hanso/Widmore) did well in having Jack and Desmond meet in the stadium that night, yeah? :thumbsup:

Don't forget too that Desmond believes Penny is engaged to someone else now. Which I have some doubts about. So maybe part of him not telling her about the letters has to do with feeling it being kind of mute at this point. He is too honorable to try to break up a relationship even if he still loves her desperately. Maybe he was thinking that by getting his honor back in this way would make things still possible without forcefully intruding.
I believe Penny still totally loves Desmond. It's obvious from all shes gone through. Which is why I doubt she's really engaged. So maybe she has something SHE should have said as well, same as him not saying anything about the letters.

You are so right about this. Both of them were keeping things in this scene from each other, and it is all Widmore's doing! :mad: I was wondering about her supposed engagement, but if she wasn't engaged, why didn't she say so? She looked stunned when Desmond asked this, possibly thought: "How would he know about this?" My theory is that there was some other guy, but there was no engagement, only a prospect and a fervent wish of her fathers. She still felt guilty IMO...
And yes, Penny still totally loves Desmond! Wouldn't you? :biggrin:

You are right about Desmond in your spoiler font, Lea. But there may be a delay:
Sayid will be sailing back for reinforcements. Desmond will be sobered up. If he's back on the beach, HE will be sailing the boat now, while Jin stays in camp with the pregnant Sun. But once this story arc is done, you are right--Desmond will be the camp doctor in Jack's absence!
Looks like fate (or Dharma/Hanso/Widmore) did well in having Jack and Desmond meet in the stadium that night, yeah? :thumbsup:

Wow, you figured it out :biggrin: Only I have a hunch that Sun going to this trip with Sayid and Jin has a special importance. Why? I don't know, it was so not likely for her to go... If she is there, it is for some reason.

And "fate" did indeed very well in putting them toghether there. Also,


if there will be a war with the others, even if Jack will escape, there will be enough work for 2 doctors...

Don't forget too that Desmond believes Penny is engaged to someone else now. Which I have some doubts about. So maybe part of him not telling her about the letters has to do with feeling it being kind of mute at this point. He is too honorable to try to break up a relationship even if he still loves her desperately. Maybe he was thinking that by getting his honor back in this way would make things still possible without forcefully intruding.
I believe Penny still totally loves Desmond. It's obvious from all shes gone through. Which is why I doubt she's really engaged. So maybe she has something SHE should have said as well, same as him not saying anything about the letters.


I believe that she is engaged, but sometimes people get engaged and that's as far as it ever goes......think she got engaged to quiet her father or in a moment of anger or feeling betrayed that Des had not responded to her...the fact that she ISN'T married yet proves what we all know...that she's still in love with Desmond and was waiting for him

If she truly loved and wanted to marry this other fellow...she'd be married. She put on a front that she was getting on with her life...and maybe in a moment of frustration, she even thought she would go thru with it...but she didn't. That says it all for me....

I believe that she is engaged, but sometimes people get engaged and that's as far as it ever goes......think she got engaged to quiet her father or in a moment of anger or feeling betrayed that Des had not responded to her...the fact that she ISN'T married yet proves what we all know...that she's still in love with Desmond and was waiting for him

If she truly loved and wanted to marry this other fellow...she'd be married. She put on a front that she was getting on with her life...and maybe in a moment of frustration, she even thought she would go thru with it...but she didn't. That says it all for me....

Very well put. People do silly things out of despair, and she must have been really desperate when she haven't heard about him for who knows how long, possibly years while he was in prison. I wonder why didn't she visit him there? Is it forbidden in military prisons, or was she such an important person that it would have shaken her image to do so? Or was it her father to forbid it? Maybe even Desmond?

Very well put. People do silly things out of despair, and she must have been really desperate when she haven't heard about him for who knows how long, possibly years while he was in prison. I wonder why didn't she visit him there? Is it forbidden in military prisons, or was she such an important person that it would have shaken her image to do so? Or was it her father to forbid it? Maybe even Desmond?

I've thought about that too, Lea. I have a feeling that her father had a lot to do with it... maybe he couldn't have visitors for awhile (don't know the rules of military prison, maybe he was in solitary) her fathers intercepting Desmond's letters and his constantly telling her that Desmond was no good (just a supposition) or...

maybe Desmond didn't want her to see him in prison.I like this the best

If it were me, no amount of persuasion would prevent me from going to see the man I loved...no matter where he was...but if that request came from Desmond himself...I would have to honor it. (but I'd be outside the gates with binoculars...lol)

I've thought about that too, Lea. I have a feeling that her father had a lot to do with it... maybe he couldn't have visitors for awhile (don't know the rules of military prison, maybe he was in solitary) her fathers intercepting Desmond's letters and his constantly telling her that Desmond was no good (just a supposition) or...

maybe Desmond didn't want her to see him in prison.I like this the best

If it were me, no amount of persuasion would prevent me from going to see the man I loved...no matter where he was...but if that request came from Desmond himself...I would have to honor it. (but I'd be outside the gates with binoculars...lol)

That was my exact thought, SLF. But we don't know the details, so we better don't judge her before we find out the questions like: why he went to prison? how did they leave each other when he went in? what plans did they have before and after the sentence? what job she has? how much influence has her father over her? how military prisons work in England? how much influence has Widmore inside the prison? what did Desmond think about her visiting him?

And she might have been there with binoculars as far as we know :biggrin:

Very well put. People do silly things out of despair, and she must have been really desperate when she haven't heard about him for who knows how long, possibly years while he was in prison. I wonder why didn't she visit him there? Is it forbidden in military prisons, or was she such an important person that it would have shaken her image to do so? Or was it her father to forbid it? Maybe even Desmond?
A lot of good speculation about if and why about Penny's engagement!
You know, the fact that Widmore was there waiting for Desmond to come outside the gate shows a lot. I think Penny would have been there had she known he was getting out that day. Desmonds letters were never even opened so Widmore was sure keeping tabs on Des! He was probably feeding Penny a lot of bull at the same time.
She had to have figured out that he was not longer in prision and started searching for him.
At the end of season two we saw her in bed alone soooo.....
Like someone said, if she had wanted to be married, she'd be married ;)

:crybaby:
I want them reunited!!
:inlove:

A lot of good speculation about if and why about Penny's engagement!
You know, the fact that Widmore was there waiting for Desmond to come outside the gate shows a lot. I think Penny would have been there had she known he was getting out that day. Desmonds letters were never even opened so Widmore was sure keeping tabs on Des! He was probably feeding Penny a lot of bull at the same time.
She had to have figured out that he was not longer in prision and started searching for him.
At the end of season two we saw her in bed alone soooo.....
Like someone said, if she had wanted to be married, she'd be married ;)

You're right, Ginia. Everything you said is so logical. My fantasy is to see Desmond and Penny reunited, with a tropical wedding performed by Mr. Eko.:love: :inlove: :kiss1:

That would be so luvleh, MerryMac! :biggrin:

That :shock1: face on Desmond when he sees Penny pull up at the stadium is on my mind today. I think that's about the LAST thing he expected to have happen! But he was surely happy it did--cuz that meant Penny still loved HIM!! :inlove:

That would be so luvleh, MerryMac! :biggrin:

That :shock1: face on Desmond when he sees Penny pull up at the stadium is on my mind today. I think that's about the LAST thing he expected to have happen! But he was surely happy it did--cuz that meant Penny still loved HIM!! :inlove:

Why of course he was happy! Heart-broken, and happy :biggrin: Wasn't his smile genuine when he talked to Jack? And he ran like hell up the stairs, like someone in a real hurry to get somewhere... or someone who have a good reason now to run and acheive his goal.

Also, Pen was alone in bed, and had their picture right beside her, the very same picture that kept Des from giving up for many years.

Yup. Ain't that great? :biggrin:

Both Desmond and Jack were running all out in that stadium scene--Desmond from determination to "win" his honor back (winning the race without that would be meaningless) and be "worthy" of Penny (as if he weren't already!); Jack from his usual overguilt about "failing" someone (in this case, Sarah).

Isn't it great that, the more we learn about these characters, the deeper our understanding of these scenes grows? :thumbsup:

I know what you mean, STH. I must review earlier eppys, because with the new info they always seem to give away more and more. The writers really must have a hard time doing that, but so far they did a wonderful job!

At first glance their encounter was intriguing and almost mystical, now that we know more about Des, and what just happened before it seems so much different and more real. The layers of this scene are amazing...

And the neater thing--the more we learn THIS season, the more layers those scenes are gonna have! :thumbup:

30 days to go!!!

TOO LONG! :crybaby:

So, has anyone rewatched the stadium scenes on the S2 DVD yet? How do they look? Any extras? Talk to me!! :frown:

Just watched the bonus disc...all of two seconds on Des:mad:

Will watch the stadium scene when I leave the Lage tonight.

At first glance their encounter was intriguing and almost mystical, now that we know more about Des, and what just happened before it seems so much different and more real. The layers of this scene are amazing...

I just wanted to stop in and offer my :twocents: about the stadium scene, which I think is one of the top scenes in Lost. It struck me the first time I saw it that Desmond was Jack's guardian angel. That he was there to tell him, indirectly, that the surgery was a success and he should have faith. I don't know, maybe even to affect the outcome of the surgery.
I got scoffed at by some men of science on the episode board when I proposed this, but I still believe that. Then in the director's commentary Damon and Carlton say how they were pleased that Ian played this guardian angel very down to earth and practical, like the one in It's A Wonderful Life. As in, "you have to lift it up", and when Jack doesn't get it, he kind of shrugs and you can almost see him thinking "oh forget it" and dumbing it down by saying "your ankle."
Then Des returns in LTDA to perhaps become a guardian angel for them all by turning the failsafe key. Maybe the angel role is more symbolic than "real" (whatever a "real" angel is), but I really see it as a character theme with Des.

I love the way you worded that workingmom and I agree. I believe that Desmond was with Jack to "lift him up "spiritually" but as we know...Jack didn't bite and also am inclined to believe it affected the surgery based on Des's statement "oh, and you don't believe in miracles". It was almost like Des was saying in his mind...well, wait and see Jack...

I don't say it too much except in the Desmond threads but Des seems to be the key to their"salvation", IMO, spiritually and literally.

:crybaby:
That was sooooo beautifully said, workingmom! Thank you! :hug:

I could see a scene where Jack is on a bluff, overlooking the sea (with The Others' permission to be there, of course). He's so sad. And so confused. . .about The Others, the Island, Kate, James, his dad, life in general. . .and just :unhappy:. Then Desmond somehow finds him (I didn't say this scene made sense, right?). Sits down beside him, just as they were at the stadium. Jack looks at him with utter disbelief that he is THERE. And Desmond says, "We met that night in the stadium. We met again in the hatch on this Island. I sailed right up to your camp in my boat. Now, I've found you HERE. Every time, sad and confused. And not believing in miracles. Do ya believe in miracles now, brotha?" And Jack just breaks down and cries. Desmond rocks him in his arms, whispering for him not to worry so, just to believe. And Jack manages--AT LAST!--to nod 'yes,' he will believe. He lets go. The moment Jack, man of faith, is born. . . .

How's that for an "Island stadium" scene? Yeah? :biggrin:

:crybaby:
That was sooooo beautifully said, workingmom! Thank you! :hug:

I could see a scene where Jack is on a bluff, overlooking the sea (with The Others' permission to be there, of course). He's so sad. And so confused. . .about The Others, the Island, Kate, James, his dad, life in general. . .and just :unhappy:. Then Desmond somehow finds him (I didn't say this scene made sense, right?). Sits down beside him, just as they were at the stadium. Jack looks at him with utter disbelief that he is THERE. And Desmond says, "We met that night in the stadium. We met again in the hatch on this Island. I sailed right up to your camp in my boat. Now, I've found you HERE. Every time, sad and confused. And not believing in miracles. Do ya believe in miracles now, brotha?" And Jack just breaks down and cries. Desmond rocks him in his arms, whispering for him not to worry so, just to believe. And Jack manages--AT LAST!--to nod 'yes,' he will believe. He lets go. The moment Jack, man of faith, is born. . . .

How's that for an "Island stadium" scene? Yeah? :biggrin:

I can actually picture this on the show, with the slight difference that Jack wakes up after it, still a prisoner of the others, but "born again", just as you said! Dreams seem to be important in this show, and Jack wasn't approached by them yet.
Also think that if there is anybody who can turn Jack into believing, than it is Desmond, his angel. He attempted twice now to make him see, make him believe, once in the stadium and once in the jungle. Maybe all it takes is one more time, just as you imagined it!

Lovely thoughts, people! :kiss:

Thanks, Lea! :hug:

I just ache for their friendship to happen--but y'all know that! Three Friendkeeters! :grin:

It just started in the stadium, yeah? :thumbsup:

Thanks, Lea! :hug:

I just ache for their friendship to happen--but y'all know that! Three Friendkeeters! :grin:

It just started in the stadium, yeah? :thumbsup:

It started for Des and Jack. But Sawyer? They never even met until now.


Plenty of time, if Sawyer escapes though ;)

Well, yes, of course, THAT, Lea!

But Desmond and James are both sharp fellas who love to read and have a wicked wit and can read people LIKE a book! I think they can click as friends easily!

The Three Friendketeers!!

Well, yes, of course, THAT, Lea!

But Desmond and James are both sharp fellas who love to read and have a wicked wit and can read people LIKE a book! I think they can click as friends easily!

The Three Friendketeers!!

I hope you are right, and they won't hate each other for all the same reasons :biggrin: That can happen...

I wish to see The Three Friendketeers! Also


will be a treat to see their first encounter - Desmond and Sawyer! That could be fireworks :biggrin:

I wanna know what nickname he gets! :D

(I vote for "Braveheart," cuz it'd be an unwittingly respectful one!)

I wanna know what nickname he gets! :D

(I vote for "Braveheart," cuz it'd be an unwittingly respectful one!)

That's a perfect nickname for him!!! But I doubt Sawyer would be respectful :biggrin:

That's why I said unwittingly, Lea! James would see it as an insult; Desmond would be honored by it. And call him "brutha." James won't have A CLUE as to how to deal with Desmond--and that's when he starts having respect for a person. (And don't think for a minute that he doesn't respect Jack--it's a grudging respect, but Jack's proved himself worthy of it. . .except, of course, when he's being a pain in the keester!)

That's why I said unwittingly, Lea! James would see it as an insult; Desmond would be honored by it. And call him "brutha." James won't have A CLUE as to how to deal with Desmond--and that's when he starts having respect for a person. (And don't think for a minute that he doesn't respect Jack--it's a grudging respect, but Jack's proved himself worthy of it. . .except, of course, when he's being a pain in the keester!)

Yes, you are right! I can see you have thought about this, (the three of them) before :biggrin: . As you mentioned it, I noticed that the nicknames he gave Jack stopped a good while since, and he's just Doc to him... I can see respect in that!

Well, to ground the Friendketeers thing, a good base would be mutual respect. Which would work out well, Des and James are capable of it, but still don't find Jack up to it... He never trusts anyone but himself, I never saw him actually, willingly giving something away. He melted a few times, twice with Desmond! And you might say it was a good start, but he was caught off guard. Mainly he is "the hero", and cannot jump out of that role. But as I said, if someone could turn him around, it would be definitely Des :biggrin:

Oh, I suspect that whatever The Others have in mind for Jack could melt him toward James, Kate, or Desmond's efforts. . .if Jack doesn't BREAK first! :eek:

Oh, I suspect that whatever The Others have in mind for Jack could melt him toward James, Kate, or Desmond's efforts. . .if Jack doesn't BREAK first! :eek:


Or at least toward Juliet :biggrin:


They need a stadium where they can sit and chat ;)

Oh, the beach, after a good jog, will be a fine substitute! :biggrin:

I was just rethinking today about the stadium scene with Penny. Does it seem odd that Penny did not ask Desmond how he was going to win the race without a boat? Unless she already knew he had a boat? :confused:

I'm sure she knew he had a boat. Even if she only knew he was entered in the race. She knows he's a determined guy. So, if he's in the race, he's found a boat! :biggrin:

I was just rethinking today about the stadium scene with Penny. Does it seem odd that Penny did not ask Desmond how he was going to win the race without a boat? Unless she already knew he had a boat? :confused:

It is a good question! The stadium scene must have taken place very shortly before the race began, IMO. So, everything was settled by than, and Penny is the daughter of the organizer, so she must have more than enough info about what's going on. She found him, didn't she? Probably must have taken a lot of detective work...

I was going over the lines tonight "When are you getting married, Pen?" This did not seem strange at first because we just saw the car scene with Daddy telling Des about the marriage. Penny must have known that her father told Desmond about the wedding. Otherwise she would have asked Desmond how he knew about the marriage don't you think? :confused:

She found him, didn't she? Probably must have taken a lot of detective work...
"With enough money and enough determination, you can find anyone." :biggrin:

Penny must have known that her father told Desmond about the wedding. Otherwise she would have asked Desmond how he knew about the marriage don't you think?
I don't think she expected him to say that, whether she knew he knew about the engagement or not. Either way, she'd know WHERE he got that info from. So she just cut to the chase and gave him a straight answer.

As well as Desmond and Penny know each other, I expect that a lot of conversation between them got skipped, because they'd KNOW what the other was gonna say in reply! :wink1:

I was going over the lines tonight "When are you getting married, Pen?" This did not seem strange at first because we just saw the car scene with Daddy telling Des about the marriage. Penny must have known that her father told Desmond about the wedding. Otherwise she would have asked Desmond how he knew about the marriage don't you think? :confused:

I don't know if she knew he was aware of her getting married, but I am pretty sure she did not expect him to ask her that judging by the shocked/ sad/ guilty expression on her face at that moment. And if she didn't know for certain the source of this info, she must have guessed, "I am going to win this race, Pen! His race!" Like he was an eternal issue between them. No need to say his name or anything.

And yes, they understood each other trough half words :rolleyes:

I do wish they could've let words fall to the wayside though, and just have run into each other's arms! :love:

I've been thinking the same thing since LTDA aired! I hope in some flashbacks this season we get to see more of Penny and Desmond's relationship, how they met and fell in love, that'd be nice.

I do wish they could've let words fall to the wayside though, and just have run into each other's arms! :love:

I am acutally so mad they didn't! They let stupid issues like honour, pride, jail, getting married stand in their ways :biggrin: C'mon! Just kiss him (her) real hard, for pity's sake!
But they don't.

I think the pride thing got in both of their ways that night....................
In a way you can't blame them. Penny never heard from Des and had to track him down.
Des listened to Widmore and did not contact her. :34853_huh:

I'd say running up and down the "mountain" of pride would have been better training for Desmond than running up and down those stadium stands! :10:

I'd say running up and down the "mountain" of pride would have been better training for Desmond than running up and down those stadium stands! :10:

C'mon! She "moved on", "is going to be married"... When she promised to wait for him! Yes, I know he didn't read her letter at that point, but she must have said it as well before he went away... So, he had reasons to be stubborn about it as well. Why didn't they explain?! I hate when things remain unsaid, you just keep pondering afterwards, why didn't I tell him (her) when I had the chance? People in love can be so stupid.

People in love can be so stupid.
Yes, that does seem to be something you can depend on about :love:!! :D

Yes, that does seem to be something you can depend on about :love:!! :D

I guess it is because being in love makes you so vulnerable. Mutual trust is pretty rare, and when one is in jail, and they never hear of each other for years... it is impossible. "Why didn't you right to me?" The pain when she claimed that... And he must have found it so unfair...

. . .and it makes me hope for their reunion, ASAP!!

Patience is a virtue, they say :biggrin:

Lots and lots and lots of patience...

Patience is NOT my strong suit, Lea! :D

Do you all feel that Desmond might have wanted Pen to look for him and that is why he listened to Daddy about not contacting her? :shrug:

Do you all feel that Desmond might have wanted Pen to look for him and that is why he listened to Daddy about not contacting her? :shrug:

You are saying, he was angry with her and let her dig after him? No, I don't think so. More like he felt he has nothing to offer to her in that particular moment. She was engaged, and he just got out of prison, "dishonourably discharged" from the army, she never even heard of him in all this time, in spite of his efforts (great many letters, which never got an answer?!)... If he shows up, he felt he has no right to claim anything. First he had to fight his battle, win the race and his honour back, than if it's not too late, he might go to her covered in glory. Something like: "I did it all for you..."

He did not expect her to show up. But what stregth must have given to him to know that she loves him still and will wait for him! :super2:

You nailed it, Lea!! :biggrin:

I keep playing the Jack-Desmond scene in the stadium over and over in my head. And my reaction never changes: I wanna grab Jack, shake him silly, and scream, "How can you not feel the connection, man? How can you not sense that this man is a kindred spirit? How can you not want to accept his friendship? Are you really that mucked up in your psyche?"

At that last question, I am reminded that yes, Jack really is that mucked up in his psyche, and I just end the fantasy scold. When you start hoping that The Others can knock some sense into him, since no one else has been able to, you know that you should just drop the subject! :rolleyes:

You nailed it, Lea!! :biggrin:

I keep playing the Jack-Desmond scene in the stadium over and over in my head. And my reaction never changes: I wanna grab Jack, shake him silly, and scream, "How can you not feel the connection, man? How can you not sense that this man is a kindred spirit? How can you not want to accept his friendship? Are you really that mucked up in your psyche?"

At that last question, I am reminded that yes, Jack really is that mucked up in his psyche, and I just end the fantasy scold. When you start hoping that The Others can knock some sense into him, since no one else has been able to, you know that you should just drop the subject! :rolleyes:

He is the man of science, remember? And Desmond is another man of faith that Jack doesn't (want to) get. This is why "kindred spirit" is not the right expression for me. They clicked all right, but it was all Desmond's doing. He went to see Jack, he started the conversation, he talked about himself, he asked questions about Jack, he was the open one! Jack never asked anything, whatever he gave away he did it quite unplanned and uncouscious. Just couldn't resist the honesty that is Des' greatest and most lovable strength.

Exactly--Jack was all mucked up. Still is. The Others are gonna have a field day with him! :eek:

But in two sweet, shining moments--in the stadium and on the Island--Jack had had a chance at getting close to someone in an intimate (non-romantic) way. And that chance was/is named Desmond!

Exactly--Jack was all mucked up. Still is. The Others are gonna have a field day with him! :eek:

But in two sweet, shining moments--in the stadium and on the Island--Jack had had a chance at getting close to someone in an intimate (non-romantic) way. And that chance was/is named Desmond!

I don't believe the Others will succeed in turninh him around. The only one IMO is Des! We saw (in those two shining moments) that he can touch Jack, as matter of a fact he is the only one who could till now. Just give him a chance, he can work miracles :biggrin:

I don't believe the Others will succeed in turning him around.
No, of course not! But They'll still have a field day with him! :eek:

"Every time we've met, you've offered me your support and friendship. And I've pushed you away. I'm sorry!"

THAT'S what I want to hear Jack say to Desmond!

So far, the closest Desmond has gotten with Jack is that Jack actually shook his hand as they were saying good bye at the stadium! WOW. :rolleyes:

No, of course not! But They'll still have a field day with him! :eek:

"Every time we've met, you've offered me your support and friendship. And I've pushed you away. I'm sorry!"

THAT'S what I want to hear Jack say to Desmond!

So far, the closest Desmond has gotten with Jack is that Jack actually shook his hand as they were saying good bye at the stadium! WOW. :rolleyes:

Actually it was a big deal coming from hero Jack. Not often does he show such appreciation to anyone, much less to a complete stranger!

But the "I'm sorry" speach is cracking me up, you won't hear that from Jack anytime soon! :21:

But the "I'm sorry" speech is cracking me up; you won't hear that from Jack anytime soon!
Nope--you sure won't! :rolleyes:

Jack's a bit too busy STILL running like the devil is chasing him! Of course, this time, there IS a devil, and his name is Fenry, but. . . .

Such an opportunity for friendship, all LOST! :crybaby:

Nope--you sure won't! :rolleyes:

Jack's a bit too busy STILL running like the devil is chasing him! Of course, this time, there IS a devil, and his name is Fenry, but. . . .

Such an opportunity for friendship, all LOST! :crybaby:

Not Lost just yet! A bit postponed, maybe :biggrin:

I suspect Jack's Season 3 journey is gonna put him in some "dark territory" of his own. We may be waiting quite awhile, Lea. . . .:sadwalk:

I suspect Jack's Season 3 journey is gonna put him in some "dark territory" of his own. We may be waiting quite awhile, Lea. . . .:sadwalk:

You just read too many spoilers (foilers?) lol :biggrin:

And there's always season 4 :thumbsup:

Doesn't take spoilers/foilers for me to reach this conclusion, Lea. Emotionally, Jack's been spiraling downhill for some time now. NOW The Others have him in Their clutches. . .and they mean to play mind games on him! :eek:

Desmond's gonna have many reasons to be sad for Jack--sadder than he even was for him in the stadium!

Doesn't take spoilers/foilers for me to reach this conclusion, Lea. Emotionally, Jack's been spiraling downhill for some time now. NOW The Others have him in Their clutches. . .and they mean to play mind games on him! :eek:

Desmond's gonna have many reasons to be sad for Jack--sadder than he even was for him in the stadium!

Whatever the others plan for Jack, it might even do him some good. When you have no other help, when you are at the bottom of desperation your only hope may be faith.
Also, the hero will find a cause in fighting the others.

Desmond, along with us might be sad for him, but who knows, sometimes from the worst experiences come the greatest things


Juliet?


I look forward to their meeting again, no matter when it happens.

I look forward to their meeting again, no matter when it happens.
Oh, definitely, Lea! :biggrin:

I watched the scene again with Pen and Des. I just got this horrible feeling that Desmond was so mad at Pen for some reason?? His character just is not like that! There must be another reason that we will find out about in S3 if they both make it! :lipsseal:

He was mad at Penny? When? I are :dizzy:!!

Something was really going on; under currents there. Go back and watch it again! Or you'll have to wait till S3...........to find out STH!

Probably, as I doubt they'll be showing that scene in the recrap eppy next Wednesday!

(I can't believe that, a week from today, I'll be eating my spaghetti while watching LOST again
--even if it IS only a silly recrap! :biggrin:)

See it will not be long now STH. We all waited it out again! From last October till May and now the final count down from May to Oct 4. So you have spaghetti Wednesdays always?

Not long now till we find out the real reason Desmond was mad at Pen at the stadium.... :wallbash:.

So you have spaghetti Wednesdays always?
Yup. It's my LOST dinner! :wink1:

I wouldn't be hoping for clarification on Stadium scenes too early in the season, though. TPTB have a few thousand "Other" matters to get on-screen! :D

I just thought it over, not sure what you mean, but "How did you find me?" sure sounds like he'd say "Why did you come here?" :biggrin:

He is more hurt than mad IMO...

Yup. It's my LOST dinner! :wink1:

I wouldn't be hoping for clarification on Stadium scenes too early in the season, though. TPTB have a few thousand "Other" matters to get on-screen! :D

Spaghetti is cool, but I am a Kraft mac-n-cheese fan, myself. It is my fave comfort food on cold nights.

Or KEWL nights, like Wednesdays when LOST is on? :71:

The big under current for me was the line "I was in prison, not away." and "When are you getting married, Pen?" I know you gals have told me about the unspoken love language that I do not understand but..... for me watching the scene again I think Des was mad at Pen sorry.....I think he still loved her a lot but was mad about something that is a piece of the puzzle that we are missing. My opinion and feeling is that Desmond felt Pen had something to do with his prison time. I hope that my boyfriend or ex-boyfriend would ask why I wanted to marry someone else......... not when (but I do understand why he wanted to know when because of the race). Maybe, I just could not stand the rejection of Desmond turning and running away from Penny for his honor. :broken_heart::sob:

Still say he wasn't mad, he was hurt. . . .

Still say he wasn't mad, he was hurt. . . . Hurt about what? Pen looked for Desmond after not hearing from him and begged him to come home with her. Plus, he knew Daddy was behind everything and Des just fell into his trap. I guess we will find out in S3 if he was mad or hurt........... :question::biggrin:

The big under current for me was the line "I was in prison, not away." and "When are you getting married, Pen?" I know you gals have told me about the unspoken love language that I do not understand but..... for me watching the scene again I think Des was mad at Pen sorry.....I think he still loved her a lot but was mad about something that is a piece of the puzzle that we are missing. My opinion and feeling is that Desmond felt Pen had something to do with his prison time. I hope that my boyfriend or ex-boyfriend would ask why I wanted to marry someone else......... not when (but I do understand why he wanted to know when because of the race). Maybe, I just could not stand the rejection of Desmond turning and running away from Penny for his honor. :broken_heart::sob:

It is interesting that you see it this way, I think as STH, he was in pain. Here's how I see it.

When he sees her first, there is a hurtful look on his face, you cannot deny it. There's the girl, the love of his life who is so out of his reach. Separated first by Widmore, secondly by herself when she got engaged, thirdly by him who doesn't feel worthy of her before proven himself.
Insisting upon "How did you find me?" may sound a bit like "why did you come?", but its more the awe that she took the pain and she did find him.
"I was in prison, not away" she was trying to be delicate about it, but he refuses to hide behind words. There's the plain, horrific truth:I was in prison! Which also means <how could you want me now, I am dishonoured!>
"When are you getting married, Pen?" she just asked why didn't he write to her, which he probably felt so unfair... There he must have been pissed, at Widmore, and even at her cuz she blindly believes her father, gets engaged out of desperation... With that question he says "you have no right to claim anything, you moved on!"

... but than she starts to cry, he melts. "We haven't set the date yet", meaning I don't want to marry anyone else! This gives him hope, but doesn't change the fact that he is not worthy of her...
"I'm going to win this race, Pen, His race!" this is such a big clue that if he was mad at someone, it was the old man Widmore, who probably was the reason he went to prison, the reason they got separated.

:clapping: Well said, Lea, well said!

Thanks Lea for the great ideas. It sounds pretty logical. I know that Desmond is mad at someone or something in that scene. We will have to wait and see. Thanks for posting what your thoughts were! :lol2:

Thanks Lea for the great ideas. It sounds pretty logical. I know that Desmond is mad at someone or something in that scene. We will have to wait and see. Thanks for posting what your thoughts were! :lol2:

Thanks for the appreciation. That's what we are here for, right? I love it so much to discuss with you guys :hug:

We will definitely see what bugged him there :biggrin:

I am hoping that in S3 maybe there will be a FB to the stadium with Libby and Des!!! Or maybe even Widmore!! Don't want to give up that stadium anytime soon! :no2:

I am hoping that in S3 maybe there will be a FB to the stadium with Libby and Des!!! Or maybe even Widmore!! Don't want to give up that stadium anytime soon! :no2:

Not the same night, cuz that would make me :eek2:

But he probably went there every day for months, and with all the coincidences that happened with these characters he should have literally ran into one or two in the process :biggrin:

It does make you wonder, these coincidences. Did anyone ever mention to Libby that the hatch dude's name was Desmond? Did she blanch, then try to cover it up? (Like with Hurley, when he began to think he'd seen her before?) Did Libby GO by "Libby" years earlier? It seems a likely lifetime nickname. So if Desmond heard about this "Libby" who just got killed, did HE blanch?

Questions, questions.

And yeah, I think Libby would be keeping tabs on the Scot who she gave her late hubby's boat to. Maybe she held the stop watch, keeping time of his runs up and down the stands. I can see that.

It does make you wonder, these coincidences. Did anyone ever mention to Libby that the hatch dude's name was Desmond? Did she blanch, then try to cover it up? (Like with Hurley, when he began to think he'd seen her before?) Did Libby GO by "Libby" years earlier? It seems a likely lifetime nickname. So if Desmond heard about this "Libby" who just got killed, did HE blanch?

Questions, questions.

And yeah, I think Libby would be keeping tabs on the Scot who she gave her late hubby's boat to. Maybe she held the stop watch, keeping time of his runs up and down the stands. I can see that.

Very good questions too. :biggrin:

I doubt that Desmond made the connection (as yet). I hope we'll see when he does! That will be a facial expression to love!
But it really bugs me that Libby never investigated upon the former hatch resident! There is no way she never found out about his name! It must have been a little suspicious.

Libby timing his runs? I can absolutely picture that! :rolleyes: