http://www.polarbearsinternational.org/facts3.php
polar bears

There's a very interesting thing about polar bears. If you photograph them with infrared film you can't see them.

What if they were bringing the polar bears to where they needed to do experiments. To where they believed another animal lived but wasn't visable in the spectrum of human vision. If we only saw in infrared we wouldn't be able to see the polar bear.

http://www.photo.net/photo/edscott/vis00010.htm
http://home.wanadoo.nl/paulschils/05.01.html
http://slate.msn.com/id/2079371#ContinueArticle
How we see

http://www.vetinfo.com/dogsee.html
Vincent

Vincent's vision is different than ours and his hearing is better. He knows when trouble is approaching.

I think Locke is pointing us in this direction that we can't hear and see everyting that exsists. He did it with the whistle he made. I think he also said something to Boone about not being able to see everything. I'll go find the quote.

[EXT. JUNGLE - (MIDDLE OF THE) NIGHT]

(Boone and Locke are in the jungle. Locke is blowing his dog whistle. They
appear to be looking for Vincent.)

(They slowly walk forward looking for any sign of Vincent.)

BOONE: I don't think that whistle's working, John.

LOCKE: You can't hear everything, Boone. The sooner you learn that, the
better.


Danielle said "If we're lucky it's just the bears."* She sounds like someone that has worked with them. She is not afraid of them but isn't stupid either. They are wild animals.

I like the Roc mythology. What if there was a mutation for something to be visable in another spectrum. There are reasons why nature does certain things.

http://www.thefuselage.com/threaded/index.php?topic=3808.0

Sam... I really like the idea about Vincent. It makes total sense that he would be able to see what we can't.

So... back to the invisability/stealth experiments then?

You know, Danielle did mention specifically that's she's never SEEN the others. And then there's the disembodied voices both Kate and Syid heard....

Hmmm.

Vincent's more acute sense of smell might have also tipped him off that the bear was approaching. Also, he's been around the island, he may know what noise large creatures make as they move through the forest.

But, hey, why not answer the question in our topic, why polar bears? Of all the bears currently in the world, the polar bear is the only one that eats only meat, all of the others will eat berries and some plant material. Of all the carnivores in the wild, the polar bear is the only one that will routinely track humans as prey. Rouge lions and other animals will do this, but polar bears are the only ones that all will hunt people, if they have the chance. They are also one of the largest bears in existance. So the answer is, they use polar bears because they are the most threatening. Either that or the circus plane crashing on the island is the answer. Some European circuses have polar bear acts that are similar to lion taming acts.

Sam...* I really like the idea about Vincent.* It makes total sense that he would be able to see what we can't.

So...* back to the invisability/stealth experiments then?

You know, Danielle did mention specifically that's she's never SEEN the others.* And then there's the disembodied voices both Kate and Syid heard....

Hmmm.


They are using dogs with seizure patients. They can smell and sense the change of chemical levels in a person.

"So...* back to the invisability/stealth experiments then?" Maybe not. Maybe trying to prove that there is another level to this dimension that we can't see or hear in but it exsist on our plane. We just haven't connected the things that have been shown to us. We see pieces but haven't connected the picture. Other animal have abilities that we don't have because they needed them to survive.

Children/babies have the ability to do so much more if they are exposed to things from a very early age. They can learn and speak many languages at one time if they are taught them. Things start to change when a grown-up introduces the concept of something being difficult. Or they pass judgement and tell them, in their opinion, something is not good. As in painting or drawing. Babies have alot of potential if give the right input.....If given the wong input.

Have you ever watched "Super Nanny" there are demon children that walk this earth

Hum...



:lol2:

I like the idea of an invisible animal, but it doesn't make any sense. The polar bears are invisible on infrared because they don't give off any heat and infrared film records heat, so to speak. Visibility is a matter of reflecting light, so everything that reflects lights (which is pretty much *everything* except for black holes and dark matter) is visible. And unless it's really, really small, it's visible to the human eye. So I have no idea how an invisible monster could be explained even with pseudo-science.

If it was invisible, then there is a need for a very unscientific explanation.

I like the idea of an invisible animal, but it doesn't make any sense. The polar bears are invisible on infrared because they don't give off any heat and infrared film records heat, so to speak. Visibility is a matter of reflecting light, so everything that reflects lights (which is pretty much *everything* except for black holes and dark matter) is visible. And unless it's really, really small, it's visible to the human eye. So I have no idea how an invisible monster could be explained even with pseudo-science.

If it was invisible, then there is a need for a very unscientific explanation.


That's why I put the links in on human eyes. We only can see part of the light spectrum. There are animals/insects that see in ultraviolet. I think it's butterflies and some birds. What if there was a mutation that didn't reflect light or was in a frequency that we don't see. It's all thoughts to play around with.

That's why I put the links in on human eyes. We only can see part of the light spectrum. There are animals/insects that see in ultraviolet. I think it's butterflies and some birds. What if there was a mutation that didn't reflect light or was in a frequency that we don't see. It's all thoughts to play around with.


Well, I could buy a small insect reflecting ultra-violet light, but a giant whatever-it-is? If it didn't reflect light wouldn't it appear as dark blob obscuring whatever is behind it? It wouldn't be invisible, because invisibility means that can see through something. If something doesn't reflect light, then it isn't transparent, is it? I am totally out of my depth here by the way.

They are using dogs with seizure patients. They can smell and sense the change of chemical levels in a person.


I hear ya, I've read many times where dogs are sniffing out melanoma. *I haven't noticed anyone complain about odor though.

Back to Polar Bears... *I don't think we've seen all the other bizarre-o animals that shouldn't be on the island. *You're right though, Sam, there has to be a plot reason why there's Polar Bears. *I highly doubt they're for protection or "guard bears" if you will.

Think about it... *how much does a polar bear need to eat in day to survive? *

2. Polar bears need an average of 2 kg (4.4 lb.) of fat per day to survive. A ringed seal weighing 55 kg (121 lb.) could provide up to eight days of energy for a polar bear (Stirling, 1988). *this is from a good bears site http://www.seaworld.org/infobooks/PolarBears/pbdiet.html

So... *what are they eating for 16yrs or longer to survive? *The boar population doesn't appear fruitful enough. *And we know there's a least two of 'em. *That's a lot of boar.

We know they have to have been brought there. *Had they been land locked there, evolution would have bred out their clear hair. *Danielle knows about the bears and talks about them like they're no biggie. *So she either brought them or they were already there. *If she brought them and had no way to feed them, they would die. *

So if they were brought there by someone else... *who's been feeding them? *If someone has been feeding them, they would have to have transport to and from the island or they would need one hellava compound to be self contained.

I hear ya, I've read many times where dogs are sniffing out melanoma. *I haven't noticed anyone complain about odor though.

Back to Polar Bears... *I don't think we've seen all the other bizarre-o animals that shouldn't be on the island. *You're right though, Sam, there has to be a plot reason why there's Polar Bears. *I highly doubt they're for protection or "guard bears" if you will.

Think about it... *how much does a polar bear need to eat in day to survive? *

2. Polar bears need an average of 2 kg (4.4 lb.) of fat per day to survive. A ringed seal weighing 55 kg (121 lb.) could provide up to eight days of energy for a polar bear (Stirling, 1988). *this is from a good bears site http://www.seaworld.org/infobooks/PolarBears/pbdiet.html

So... *what are they eating for 16yrs or longer to survive? *The boar population doesn't appear fruitful enough. *And we know there's a least two of 'em. *That's a lot of boar.

We know they have to have been brought there. *Had they been land locked there, evolution would have bred out their clear hair. *Danielle knows about the bears and talks about them like they're no biggie. *So she either brought them or they were already there. *If she brought them and had no way to feed them, they would die. *

So if they were brought there by someone else... *who's been feeding them? *If someone has been feeding them, they would have to have transport to and from the island or they would need one hellava compound to be self contained.




I think the bears were part of her experiment. When things fell apart she let them loose, instead of killing them. She may have a bond with them. They may not bother her but do keep "The Others" away. The boars may have been brought originally as a food for the bears and were let loose also.

I was going to add something here about the climate these bears can take but I came up with ... nothing :-\

I thought I read somewhere where they could not survive a tropical climate but I know one thing ...

I have been to the Bronz Zoo many times and it sure does get hot by their exhibit during the summer months :o

I'll just take it as TV fact that a polar bear can live safely in the tropics ;D

Actually, the boars could be native. *There are some South Pacific islands (larger ones) that have wild boars. *The only question might be their size. *These were some big pigs.

Actually, the boars could be native. *There are some South Pacific islands (larger ones) that have wild boars. *The only question might be their size. *These were some big pigs.

I had looked up the boars also and some of the big islands have them but if they were bringing the bears and using the boars as a source of food they probably would have brought stock with them.

http://www.bellmuseum.org/eyes.html

The ozone layer and why the sunscreen is so important!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

'Maybe they're not Polar Bears.... maybe they're albino Brown Bears?

Brown Bears are very closely related to Polar Bears and there wouldn't be any question about surviving Extra Ultraviolet or hot south pacific summers.

Hybrid cubs born to captive polar bears and their close relative, the brown bear, are white at birth but later turn blue-brown or yellow-white.

A polar bear is so well-insulated that it experiences almost no heat loss. In addition to its insulating fur, the bear's blubber layer can measure 4.5 inches thick.

So effective is the polar bear's insulation that adult males quickly overheat when they run.


Sorry, Sam.... I still don't get the UV connection. Sure you can mutate chemicals in people and animals but you can't mutate the world of physics. Like works the way light works. It doesn't matter what it's reflected off of. We see the spectrum as we see it.
Are you saying the, whatever it is, reflects light in a way we can't see but Vincent can? Is that why "it" didn't kill Locke when Locke stared "it" down. Maybe it thought, "Oh crap, he can see me... gotta go!"?

I think that the polar bears might be a sort of clue as to why the "monster" can't be seen. Polar bears are not white. They appear white, but actually their fur is transparent. The guard hairs are hollow and transparent, and the undercoat is transparent as well, but not hollow. Their skin is actually black. They appear white because the air space inside the hairs scatter and reflect visible light, much like ice and snow. When photographed with film sensitive to ultraviolet light, polar bears appear black. Polar bears also do not show up in infrared photographs. They give off no discernable heat. I just thought that was kewl, possibly a nod to the whold white/black thing, seeing as polar bears can appear either white or black, but are actually neither.

I think that the polar bears might be a sort of clue as to why the "monster" can't be seen. Polar bears are not white. They appear white, but actually their fur is transparent. The guard hairs are hollow and transparent, and the undercoat is transparent as well, but not hollow. Their skin is actually black. They appear white because the air space inside the hairs scatter and reflect visible light, much like ice and snow. When photographed with film sensitive to ultraviolet light, polar bears appear black. Polar bears also do not show up in infrared photographs. They give off no discernable heat. I just thought that was kewl, possibly a nod to the whold white/black thing, seeing as polar bears can appear either white or black, but are actually neither.


I loved that! Especially:

I just thought that was kewl, possibly a nod to the whold white/black thing, seeing as polar bears can appear either white or black, but are actually neither.


Makes ya wonder, huh?

interesting

we really don't know about the wildlife on the island

polar bears and boars are kind of aggressive animals, they would not hesitate to rush at people

we know some other animals live on the island, birds, moths, bees, fishes
what about the other animals

for any ecosystem to work there has to be a well balanced equilibrium in the food chain

everything small is eaten by a bigger thing, and the bigger the thing is, the smaller the number

there must be a lot of other animals that we don't know of yet
if there weren't, which means big carnivorous, small carnivorous, herbivores, birds, insects, there would not be the right balance in the food chain
and this could lead to an overabundant species
too many insects, or too many birds, and so on

in fact the wildlife seems pretty well balanced as far as we have seen

so there must be quite a large number of other species hiding here and there, and the survivors wouldn't even suspect their existence

conclusion : i really don't think that bears on this island are nowhere near starvation, in fact there must be plenty of animals to hunt down

Excellent Angelharp!!! That's really a well thought out .... metaphor, ummmm is that right?

Anyway... yeah, I like that. They're showing that not all is, as it appears. Black skin (bad)... but on the outside they look white (good)..

If you look at them in the right light... literally in UV... you see them as they really are, black.

Soooo......

IF the survivor's look at the creature in the right light, they'd be able to see it. :o 10 minutes to show time!!!

Maybe it isn't a polar bear. Maybe it's a Kermode Bear (http://www.kermode.net/terrace/spiritbear.html)

Maybe it isn't a polar bear. Maybe it's a Kermode Bear (http://www.kermode.net/terrace/spiritbear.html)


From the link: The kermode is a sub species of the black bear. There is a recessive gene which both parents have to have to make the black bear white.

sounds rare. How likely to have at least two of those kermode bears on the island?

Maybe it isn't a polar bear. Maybe it's a Kermode Bear (http://www.kermode.net/terrace/spiritbear.html)


We do have to believe certain things. True, none of our survivors has shown great expertise in zoology, except Locke. They call it a polar bear, the transcripts call it a polar bear, there is the comic book that references a polar bear. If it was another kind of bear, they might have referred to it as a white bear. I think it needs to be a polar bear.

By the way, who said the bears could only eat meat from the land?
Can't they find food in the ocean? After all, some bears feed on salmon which they catch in rivers.

Does anyone know if polar bears are good at fishing (for things other than seals that is)?

By the way, who said the bears could only eat meat from the land?
Can't they find food in the ocean?* After all, some bears feed on salmon which they catch in rivers.

Does anyone know if polar bears are good at fishing (for things other than seals that is)?



http://www.sae.k12.nf.ca/pbdiet.htm

Seems there would be enough for a polar bear to eat, they eat almost anything.

I GOT IT!!!!!

I totally know WHY Polar Bears now... After reading all this stuff about polar bears, their skin, how light effects their color... that led to how we and others see light spectrums... which led to how animals emitt hidden colors that only other animals can see and it hit me....

The polar bears are there NOT to guard the island from humans but to search the island for the Others, maybe.... I think Danielle's team brought the polar bears to the island because they knew the bears could see into the spectrum needed to see whatever they were hunting (possibly the Others but more likely the invisible flying nasties). AND... knowing that polar bears will hunt down humans to the death they could be assured the polar bears would actively hunt and attack.

Whatta ya think...?

Great discussion and info on polar bears and UV rays. However to answer the question why Polar Bears? From what I have seen, The Polar bears are manifested on the island because of Walt. He reads it in the Comic Book and they appear. Just as he caused the bird he was reading about to crash into the window in Australia.

Great discussion and info on polar bears and UV rays.* However to answer the question why Polar Bears?* From what I have seen,* The Polar bears are manifested on the island because of Walt.* He reads it in the Comic Book and they appear.* Just as he caused the bird he was reading about to crash into the window in Australia.*


Danielle knows the bears. It sounds like she's known them for awhile. That's part of the reason for the rifle.

Walt manifested the bears early on prior to Danielle capturing Sayid. She grabs the rifle after saying let's hope it's just the bears. Do you think Walt's reading a comic book with Polar Bears in it is just a coincidence? I mean the writers went to great lengths to make sure we saw the Polar Bear in the Comic book.

I think that the polar bears might be a sort of clue as to why the "monster" can't be seen. Polar bears are not white. They appear white, but actually their fur is transparent. The guard hairs are hollow and transparent, and the undercoat is transparent as well, but not hollow. Their skin is actually black. They appear white because the air space inside the hairs scatter and reflect visible light, much like ice and snow. When photographed with film sensitive to ultraviolet light, polar bears appear black. Polar bears also do not show up in infrared photographs. They give off no discernable heat. I just thought that was kewl, possibly a nod to the whold white/black thing, seeing as polar bears can appear either white or black, but are actually neither.


That is totally cool.

2. Polar bears need an average of 2 kg (4.4 lb.) of fat per day to survive. A ringed seal weighing 55 kg (121 lb.) could provide up to eight days of energy for a polar bear (Stirling, 1988). this is from a good bears site http://www.seaworld.org/infobooks/PolarBears/pbdiet.html

So... what are they eating for 16yrs or longer to survive?

They eat fish. My guess is that would be their main diet on the island, and fish should be abundant.

We do have to believe certain things. True, none of our survivors has shown great expertise in zoology, except Locke. They call it a polar bear, the transcripts call it a polar bear, there is the comic book that references a polar bear. If it was another kind of bear, they might have referred to it as a white bear. I think it needs to be a polar bear.


Actually, I'm not willing to discount this idea yet. We know Rousseau was on a scientific expedition. Maybe they were manipulating genes.

The whole recessive gene in two black bears to make one white bear fits nicely with the black/white dark/light speculation about Walt and Claire's unborn baby. It also gels with my idea that black/white symbolism may be less about good vs. evil and more about finding balance with the Force, young jedi.

I GOT IT!!!!!

I totally know WHY Polar Bears now... After reading all this stuff about polar bears, their skin, how light effects their color... that led to how we and others see light spectrums... which led to how animals emitt hidden colors that only other animals can see and it hit me....

The polar bears are there NOT to guard the island from humans but to search the island for the Others, maybe.... I think Danielle's team brought the polar bears to the island because they knew the bears could see into the spectrum needed to see whatever they were hunting (possibly the Others but more likely the invisible flying nasties). AND... knowing that polar bears will hunt down humans to the death they could be assured the polar bears would actively hunt and attack.

Whatta ya think...?



Was the island the destination of Rousseau's team? I thought they were blown off course.

The Island was not their destination. Their instruments malfunctioned they went off course the boat grounded. The hull was breeched and they were marooned just like our current set of castaways.

That's what I thought, LbL (re: how Rousseau's team ended up on the island).

I don't believe that Walt "manifested" the bears or anything else. Things don't just appear out of thin air. Show me evidence, I'm willing to change my mind.

The question of whether he has some ability to call things to him (subconciously) is subject to debate.

It's clear to me in the context of what Rousseau said that the bears have been on the island for quite some time.

Good point Creme...

The bears would have had to have been brought there prior to Danielle's ship crashing.

That would link them back to whomever put in the hatches.

We have to remember that whatever happens, it has to be explainable through science or psuedo science... I strongly doubt that animals are manifesting themselves at the will of a childs mind.

Good point Creme...

The bears would have had to have been brought there prior to Danielle's ship crashing.

That would link them back to whomever put in the hatches.

We have to remember that whatever happens, it has to be explainable through science or psuedo science... I strongly doubt that animals are manifesting themselves at the will of a childs mind.


Not necessarily. The bears could have been with Danielle's scientific team.

The hatches could have been built by "others" on Danielle's team who are still alive.

Walt manifested the bears early on prior to Danielle capturing Sayid.* She grabs the rifle after saying let's hope it's just the bears.* Do you think Walt's reading a comic book with Polar Bears in it is just a coincidence?* I mean the writers went to great lengths to make sure we saw the Polar Bear in the Comic book.


Yes, and the bird came in Australia but they live there. I know, what are the chances of a polar bear living on a tropical island. I guess that's what we're going to find out.

Danielle is not surprised by the bears. She knows that there is more than one. Did Walt wish for 2? No. The 2nd one doesn't appear until "Special"

Was the island the destination of Rousseau's team? I thought they were blown off course.


No it probably wasn't but they were heading somewhere in that region. Maybe, they were searching for a certain island. We don't know yet. They could have found what they were looking for by accident.

I like the speculation about how the bears will figure into the plot, but I don't think they could have been part of Danielle or her research team's experiment. *Their instruments malfunctioned "3 days out of Tahiti." *That's not exactly a place that trades in arctic creatures. *As has been pointed out on other threads, the departure from Tahiti and the presence of firearms and jackets that carry the wearer's name might well indicate a French (or joint) military venture. *Not necessarily military personnel, but military funding. *I could see them testing native animals to see how they respond to radiation from nuclear testing, but they wouldn't need to introduce non-native animals. *It's more likely that the others somehow brought them to use as a deterent to any newcomers roaming freely around the island and uncovering their secrets.

I like the speculation about how the bears will figure into the plot, but I don't think they could have been part of Danielle or her research team's experiment. *Their instruments malfunctioned "3 days out of Tahiti." *That's not exactly a place that trades in arctic creatures. *As has been pointed out on other threads, the departure from Tahiti and the presence of firearms and jackets that carry the wearer's name might well indicate a French (or joint) military venture. *Not necessarily military personnel, but military funding. *I could see them testing native animals to see how they respond to radiation from nuclear testing, but they wouldn't need to introduce non-native animals. *It's more likely that the others somehow brought them to use as a deterent to any newcomers roaming freely around the island and uncovering their secrets.


Back to the beginning. That's why polar bears. There fur has interesting properties. If they were doing experiments in camouflage or searching for something that exsisted but is not visable to the naked eye. The polar bears were part of their experiment.

But they are visible to the naked eye. Their fur does have interesting properties that allow them to adapt so well to the arctic. And really, using a white bear for a camouflage experiments on a tropical jungle island? Finally, take a look at the drawing of the ship on the maps that Sayid took from Danielle. It seems very unlikely that the craft I saw was transporting any large creatures, much less enough polar bears to have a viable breeding population.

But they are visible to the naked eye.* Their fur does have interesting properties that allow them to adapt so well to the arctic.* And really, using a white bear for a camouflage experiments on a tropical jungle island?* Finally, take a look at the drawing of the ship on the maps that Sayid took from Danielle.* It seems very unlikely that the craft I saw was transporting any large creatures, much less enough polar bears to have a viable breeding population.


But when photographed in infrared you can't see them. In UV they look black. We are dealing with things on this island that no one has seen, yet, maybe, ever.

My theory is about our range of vision. Animals can see things we can't. Nature camouflages very well when it needs to.

Actually, man has pretty good vision, even compared to other animals, except for the infrared, because were not primarily nocturnal. The real sensory difference is in hearing, with man having one of the more limited ranges. I still maintain that transporting several very large, heavy, and dangerous animals across the Pacific for a camouflage experiment is too far out there even for this show. However, if you were looking for some animal that would be a lethal threat to any people who might come upon the island, you've got only 2 good choices, polar bears and crocodiles (nile or salty). The point about nature camoflaging well is true, but not necessarily about polar bears. They don't hunt by hiding and then surprising their prey. They're trackers, able to swim up to a hundred miles or cross large areas of land or ice to get their targets.

http://www.twoevilmonks.org/alias/season2/as207p5.htm

Polar bear on Alias. What was Marshall trying to prove with the polar bear fur? Who wrote the episode? off on a hunt.

The CounterAgent 2:07 written by John Eisendrath

(Marshall's office. He's working on a polar bear skin rug, inspecting the fur intently.)

JACK: (voice over) Sloane is scheduled to attend an Alliance meeting in Tokyo. I'll find out the details of his itinerary.

(Jack enters the office.)

JACK: My S.T.U. is not recognizing my crypto-ignition key. I need it fixed.

MARSHALL: Fine. Do you know that polar bears can't be detected by infrared photography? Their fur emits no heat. Nothing. Nada. Zip.

(Jack gives him his trademark cold stare.)

MARSHALL: I guess I thought maybe it would be applicable to something

Kendall is in this episode. (Terry O'Quinn)

Exactly, I had forgotten about the ALIAS episode but why polar bears ? How about this...........

The wartime use of camouflage is by no means a modern invention; it is as old as human history. But its importance increased during World War I as a result of the use of the airplane and photography for aerial observation. The first section de camouflage in military history was established in 1915 by the French, under the command of an artist, and thereafter comparable units were used by the British and Americans, and, to lesser extent, by the Germans, Italians, and Russians. These units were largely made up of camoufleurs who in civilian life had been artists of one kind or another, including fine artists, designers, and architects. As a result, literally hundreds of artists served during both World Wars, by participants on all sides of the conflicts, as military or civil defense camouflage experts, including such familiar names as Abbott H. Thayer

While living in New Hampshire, Thayer's interest in the natural world expanded to include scientific observations of animal camouflage, or "protective coloration." "Peacock in the Woods" (1907) illustrates Thayer's ideas of nature as an artist using color and shadow to disguise animals in the environment. With his son, Gerald, Thayer published his theories in Concealing-Coloration in the Animal Kingdom (1909), and he promoted the idea of camouflage for soldiers and ships in World War I.

Interspersed in the text are illustrations of various animals, which demonstrate their invisibility under certain environmental conditions. Thayer's precepts were challenged by some scientists and by Theodore Roosevelt, but his research brought the issue of camouflage before the public, and some of his theories were put to military use during World War II.

Can anyone see a general Pseudo scientific explanation in there ? I do. ;)

Yes! Part of what I'm talking about. We also have clues of other things scurring about but not seen. Vincent didn't set off the trap last night. Boone just couldn't see what it was. Vincent can probably sniff them out and find food. He doesn't have a brain that tells him you can't see it. So it's not there.

Blinded by the light. (I just wanted to sat that again.) All of this is a great way to get people to use their imaginations. Collectively it's amazing.

I had no idea about that Alias thing! That is really kewl! I've never seen Alias, but was that before or after the 2 year time-jump?

ALIAS answer season two so before the 2yr. Get your hands on season one it is an incredible show.

These units were largely made up of camoufleurs who in civilian life had been artists of one kind or another, including fine artists, designers, and architects. As a result, literally hundreds of artists served during both World Wars, by participants on all sides of the conflicts, as military or civil defense camouflage experts, including such familiar names as Abbott H. Thayer


What's REALLY weird, is that there's threads all over here about how strange it is that a lot of the characters are artistic. At least I remember reading some.

Would they then be more apt to master this new camouflage technology?

I had no idea about that Alias thing!* That is really kewl!* I've never seen Alias, but was that before or after the 2 year time-jump?*


2nd Season. Before the time jump. Before they had an audience studying every move they make.

Another interesting thing: The back of the toonie (or twonie), the Canadian $2 coin has a polar bear on it!
Ethan said he is from Ontario.
Just throwing things out there. :laugh:

I don't think I heard anybody mention this, and it's been going through my head this whole time... This fits in with my "moving island" theory... The "Others" could have brought the polar bears to the island BECAUSE of the monster... Maybe the monster sees in infrared (A la Predator), and the polar bears are the only animals that won't get eaten by it because it can't see them.

Why they need animals that are "immune", so to speak, to the monster is beyond me. That's just my best explanation for the whole infrared thing.

It's 5am, I'm going to bed. *yawn*

I don't think I heard anybody mention this, and it's been going through my head this whole time... This fits in with my "moving island" theory... The "Others" could have brought the polar bears to the island BECAUSE of the monster... Maybe the monster sees in infrared (A la Predator), and the polar bears are the only animals that won't get eaten by it because it can't see them.

Why they need animals that are "immune", so to speak, to the monster is beyond me. That's just my best explanation for the whole infrared thing.

It's 5am, I'm going to bed. *yawn*


Infra Red is heat vision the only way the polar bears would be invisible to an animal with heat vision (like a snake) is if the polar bears did not give off any heat i.e. they're dead

Infra Red is heat vision the only way the polar bears would be invisible to an animal with heat vision (like a snake) is if the polar bears did not give off any heat i.e. they're dead

Actually they don't give off any heat (or hardly)

maybe the whole purpose was to come up with the most difficult animal to spot on infrared vision, since the scientific team would have worked to design googles (or whatever) that enhanced the vision
Polar bears being hard to spot on infrared would have make perfect test subjects

Think about the nightvision (or low light) googles. They would enable you to see perfectly in the dark
those of you who are not familiar with military equipmen may have seen such googles in movies, they usually give a greenish vision, alternately they used the same kind of equipment on tv during the gulf war
It would be very likely that 16 years ago they were working on such vision ehancing devices

The purpose of the nightvision googles, is to enhance whatever light source, even the faintest and dimmest, to actually light the surroundings, and give you a sort of daytime vison at night

To test those nightvision googles you would do so at night or in a dark room, since their effectiveness could only be measured in very dark conditions

if you were to work on devices designed to work with the invisible spectrum (ultraviolet, and infrared) you would also test them on subjects that naturally hide their thermal signature (for infrared) hence you would most likely test them on polar bears who naturally hardly give off any heat, or on some kind of bird (as mentionned in another thread) that actually reflect ultraviolet

Polar Bear I.Q.
Success at hunting seals may not be measured on a standard I. Q. test, but scientist Alison Ames considers it a sign of the polar bear's brain power.

As part of a study funded by the Universities Federation for Animal Welfare, Ames researched the behavior of captive polar bears in British zoos. She has seen her subjects stack heaps of pipes that they later knock over in elaborate games. She has also watched them smash open ice blocks in order to extract imbedded fish.

Her conclusion: the great white bears are just as smart as apes.

"This is learned behavior and reveals that polar bears are very intelligent animals," Ames told the London Observer. "They are highly cognitive creatures that top the food chain in polar regions. You have to be very clever to do that. Hunting and trapping a seal is no easy matter."

Because of the polar bear's intelligence, Ames favors a move away from the concrete cages of the past. "[Polar bears] respond well to stimulating environments," she says. "They like areas of sand, grass, and hard ground in their enclosures."


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

@ tarf *FYI

why would you use infra red or low light goggles let go to the efforts of seeing if you could use them on animal that is WHITE and thus sticks out like a saw thumb you would just use your own eyes would you not?

Secondly if your had an animal that reflected infra-red or ultra-violet light they to would stick like saw thumbs if you used low light or some other specialised goggles,

There are animals that do reflect ultra-violet light (like butterflies, humming birds, some lizards etc) but they do this because they can see in ultra-violet and use this colouring to advertise there presence or to ward of predators

I not dissing you here it's just FYI :angel: :laugh: :lol2: :laugh: :angel:

why would you use infra red or low light goggles let go to the efforts of seeing if you could use them on animal that is WHITE and thus sticks out like a saw thumb you would just use your own eyes would you not?


I don't think being able to see them easily in the visible spectrum would matter very much, because we're assuming the polar bears were there for a purpose. If they really were doing tests on infrared vision, then they would want to be able to see them in normal vision, because otherwise they wouldn't be able to find them. The fact that they give off very very little heat would make them difficult to see in infrared, so if they could develope something that could see even the very faint heat of a polar bear, they could detect other low heat sources...

Perhaps the monster gives off very little heat as well. Cold-blooded? Like a snake?

What other purpose would a polar bear be on an island for?

It's very possible the experiments with the Polar Bears, if in fact the polar bears were being researched, is to mimic or replicate the ability by polar bears to be unseen by IR.

If I were the "Military" ,for example, I would be VERY interested is hiding a plane's or whatever's IR signature from the enemy.

Not to mention that it would make a target invisible to such things as IR gogles, IR missles, etc. If one had a group of poeple that were invisible to IR... that would be scary.

Good call... perhaps if my theory about the monster seeing in IR is true, the Others could be using some kind of polar bear armor to shield themselves from it, that way they can travel anywhere... And if my other theory that they live underground is true, they could pop up anywhere and not have to worry about being attacked by the creature.

It's very possible the experiments with the Polar Bears, if in fact the polar bears were being researched, is to mimic or replicate the ability by polar bears to be unseen by IR.

If I were the "Military" ,for example, I would be VERY interested is hiding a plane's or whatever's IR signature from the enemy.

Not to mention that it would make a target invisible to such things as IR gogles, IR missles, etc.* If one had a group of poeple that were invisible to IR...* that would be scary.


exactly

@Mallek

if your goal is to design means of camouflage, for isntance insulated garments for the military, you would also have t o research to means to detect the camouflaged person
otherwise you could never assess if your camouflage is efficient

and on a military point of view :
if you are secretely working on an IR camouflage, you also must assume that any potential ennemy of the country is also working on the same kind of "device"

There you must ensure that, not only can you fool the ennemy with a camouflage, but also that you will be able to detect the ennemy's camouflage

so you have to work both way, hiding and revealing

by looking at the polar bear's fur you can determine what makes it invisible to IR, hence you gather data for making a coat for soldiers that would be invisible to IR
by watching the polar bears from a distance with IR detection devices, you can upgrade the sensitivity of your devices and detect

the bears enable the scientist to design both a measure and a counter-measure
like when they invented the IR guidance system for missile, they also invented IR jamming devices, or techniques to avoid those missiles
that's things you'd do simultaneously

When you think of a battle, let's say a tank battle, you would need to have to fight at night
At night the tanks are blacked out, they would hide in ditches, the only thing that would be visible would be the top of the turret and the cannon
in fact in dark conditions (no of litle moonlight, clouds, or smoke you would never be able to see the ennemy
In the tanks in such conditions they use nightvision googles and infrared
and what you see through the infrared scopes of a tank is dramatic. You actually see the engines and exhausts of every tank around you
if a country found a way to completely shield their tanks against infrared, that would give this country a huge strategic advantage
they could destroy a whole squadron of tanks before they ever knew what hit them
But until then, at night, you would spot ennemy tanks from miles away, thanks to the IR

Detecting IR and shielding your units against them is definitely a major issue as far as the military is concerned

AH HAAA! You're on it Tarf...

IR is used to detect objects that are hidden at night by detecting their heat signature... but that doesn't do you a bit of good during the day.

The research being done here is to camoflage ALL detectable signatures. (I mean if you're gonna swim, you might as well get wet)

SO... you would research polar bears to learn how to hide IR signatures. You would use... dun dun dunnnn.... our unknow invisible flying nasties that can't be seen, but can be heard, to learn how to be invisible in normal light.

You would also be working on the counter technology, so if your enemy got hold of your invisiblity trick, you'd be able to see them when they use it. I don't know how but I think that's where Walt, and Claire's baby and any other children born of the Lastways come in. I think the research is in genetics and this group has what the Other's need for this research.

Could they be trying to harness the creature's invisibility/other powers by engineering the babies of people who land on the island? Perhaps that's the whole point of the place... To bring people together in order to create new test subjects- babies. This way, even the whole Jack/Kate/Sawyer love triangle fits in with the mystery of the island. Obviously, eventually these people's hormones are going to get the better of them, and it's not like they have birth control... The Others would know that sooner or later more people will get pregnant... Hmm... makes me wonder if there are more female survivors (in general) than male... We've never really seen all 46 people in one place, have we?

Maybe that's why Danielle killed everyone else... maybe the island makes men horny, and they were all fighting for her, so she killed them all instead, thinking they had gone mad?

Samurai

Just reading your signature on the bottom about the bacon.
What other smells/tastes Peanut butter.
We started talking about Claire remembering peanut butter on another thread. What that means. Sence of smell triggers your memory the best.

Holy cow, SG you're right.

I mentioned the peanut butter thing on another thread, we were talking about Claire's only memory.

So, yeah, when and were exactly did Charlie mention that memory of bacon?

(watch this'll turn out to be like Willy Wonka and the Little Princess) ;)

Holy cow, SG you're right.

I mentioned the peanut butter thing on another thread, we were talking about Claire's only memory.

So, yeah, when and were exactly did Charlie mention that memory of bacon?

(watch this'll turn out to be like Willy Wonka and the Little Princess) ;)


RBA
CHARLIE: Dear Diary, still on the bloody island. Today I swallowed a bug.
Love, Claire.
(He chuckles. Claire doesn't smile.)
(Charlie sits down and hands Claire a cup of tea.)
CHARLIE: Here. What separates us from these savage yanks if we can't drink
tea?
(They clink cups.)
CHARLIE: Feeling better?
CLAIRE: It was just a dream.
CHARLIE: (nods) Mm. I have this dream. I'm driving a bus, and my teeth start
falling out. My mum is in the back, eating biscuits. Everything smells of
bacon. (shakes his head seriously) It's weird. Of course, I don't wake up
screaming.

bacon and peanut butter
that's one more for the "perception" or "sense" theory

What are senses ?
Senses are perceptions, but senses are not real, they are a product of our brain activity (electricity, and magnetic fields)

When you smell something, the smell triggers a nerve response, electricity is sent to your brain, the brain analyzes the "footprint" given by that smell and searches for patterns it already has in its memory banks (i definitely make a brain/computer analogy here for better understanding)

If the smell is not recognized => you have never smelled something like that, the smell pattern is stored in memory, if you smell the same thing again you will "remember" when you have last smelled it
if the smell is recognized you will get some data back => the name associated with the smell

this goes for every sense we have, (Hearing, sight, touch, smell, taste)
everytime we encounter a new sensation it is stored in the brain pretty much as a computer would store data on your hard disk
To retrieve the data and actually find a connection between what you feel and the words or ideas or memories associated with it, it involves electricity and magnetic field

If you were exposed to a magnetic field interferring with brainwaves (Tesla's experiment to change alpha to beta waves) you could actually have false information from the brain

Retrieving info or memories is just, to speak crudely, picking the right neuron
Just imagine a magnetic field, powerful enough, and in tune with your brain, you could pick the wrong neuron
actually this would mean you could eat bacon and have the impression that you eat peanut butter, although you can see that you are having bacon, but your brain tells you it's not, by its taste

I'm trying to get some informations about any research that was made on the subject, but there seems to be a likely possibility that magnetic fields could alter what we SENSE


Also, back to the brain/computer analogy.
Data are stored through electrical impulsions in the brain, pretty much like it is done on a magnetic storage device such as a floppy disk or a hardrdive
What happens when you put a harddrive under a large electromagnet ?
Data are erased
What if a powerful electromagnetic field could prevent the brain from storing data (memories) ?
Partial amnesia ?

This started with Polar Bears right? And Lights.

Wow. But it is encompassing all the senses. What we think they are and what they can be. All these threads are weaving together.

Okay... so what do we have so far?

Vision - there's vision references everywhere... eye ball shots, the lamps, invisible thingies.

Hearing - the flapping before roars, the whispers, the dog whistle.

Taste/Smell - peanut butter and bacon

Touch - Locke's legs? Claire and Jin feeling her baby?

ESP - the psychic


SG, Tarf, Samuri... maybe this deserves it's own thread? References to the senses, that is.

It's begining to look like this whole show is revolving around the senses and the perceptions of the Lostways AND the fan base. I mean, the island and the Other's are testing the Lostaway's perceptions and the show and writer's are testing ours. What we catch from the show either seen or heard etc. our perceptions.

The whole thing seems to be an experiment, with the Lostways AND us.

Okay...* so what do we have so far?

Vision - there's vision references everywhere...* eye ball shots, the lamps, invisible thingies.

Hearing - the flapping before roars, the whispers, the dog whistle.

Taste/Smell - peanut butter and bacon

Touch - Locke's legs?* Claire and Jin feeling her baby?

ESP - the psychic


SG, Tarf, Samuri...* *maybe this deserves it's own thread?* References to the senses, that is.

It's begining to look like this whole show is revolving around the senses and the perceptions of the Lostways AND the fan base.* I mean, the island and the Other's are testing the Lostaway's perceptions and the show and writer's are testing ours.* What we catch from the show either seen or heard etc. our perceptions.

The whole thing seems to be an experiment, with the Lostways AND us.



Of course, you were reading my mind. Before I went and read replies to posts I wrote the one for Senses. Tying threads together.

you know American and england are two very different places and think that you lot have grown up on tomany government/military conspiracy theories, where as English people in general including may self would only think why bother experimenting on animals for military reasons when everyone else in the world has an utter rubbish army in-comparison to ours

I don't think anyone said it was an American or English experiment.

actually, the US were the first to experiment on dolphins, to be used as mine layers or mine sweepers

In fact assuming that other countries have a rubbish army compared to ours, is one of the most severe strategic mistake
That's what got our arse kicked in vietnam btw

They currentely work with various animals (every country does it) for instance they work with sharks. Shark skin offers very low resistance to water and permits the shark to swin effortlessly and swiftly. The military as alreasy performed tests by applying a sort of "shark skin" on some planes, to measeaure their ability to be stealth (less air turbulences around the plane) and to consume less fuel

The "shark skin" may one day appear on passenger planes

there are numerous other examples, and the Military sure does exeperiment (or at least watch) the animals to develop weapons and detection devices

http://www.thefuselage.com/threaded/index.php?topic=6815.0

Adding the thread to the senses

Holy cow, SG you're right.

I mentioned the peanut butter thing on another thread, we were talking about Claire's only memory.

So, yeah, when and were exactly did Charlie mention that memory of bacon?

(watch this'll turn out to be like Willy Wonka and the Little Princess) ;)


Also, when Charlie was telling Claire about his dream. He brought her something to drink in the peanut butter jar. It didn't seem to jog her memory then but sometimes it takes a while for your mind to click on something, especially, when you can't remember anything.

He brought her something to drink in the peanut butter jar.


am i the only one who wonders why someone on a plane would travel with an empty peanut butter jar ?

am i the only one who wonders why someone on a plane would travel with an empty peanut butter jar ?


I'm sure that the jar wasn't always empty. They probably ate the peanut butter after the crash and saved the jar for utilitarian purposes.

am i the only one who wonders why someone on a plane would travel with an empty peanut butter jar ?


Or carry a jar of peanut butter with them. Not something they usually offer as airline food either.

I was wondering the same thing, which is why I don't think it was actually a peanut butter jar. Probably had something else in it, I can't imagine what. I mean, the only reason we call it a "peanut butter jar" is because it's the jar he used to eat the imaginary peanut butter, right? Is there any other evidence that it ever had any peanut butter in it at all?

Now, let us speculate on what could have been in it originally, mwahahaha!

Maybe it was full and American peanut butter can't compare to Australian.

Oh and since we're talking nationalities, until the hatch opens up, the only scientists that we know were ever on the island were, neither US nor GB, but French. That is, until we open the hatch.

Maybe it was full and American peanut butter can't compare to Australian.

Oh and since we're talking nationalities, until the hatch opens up, the only scientists that we know were ever on the island were, neither US nor GB, but French.* That is, until we open the hatch.


There's a difference? Peanut butter, I mean.

Who knows? The best chocolate coated vanilla ice cream on a stick that I ever had was in Moscow during the Soviet era, and nothing else can touch it.

Also, I was kidding.

Oh and since we're talking nationalities, until the hatch opens up, the only scientists that we know were ever on the island were, neither US nor GB, but French. That is, until we open the hatch.


Sorry Roger... that statement isn't exactly true... sorry to be the bringer of bad news.

There are science expeditons that are started everyday... the researchers that partake in these expeditions could be ALL french, US, place your favorite country here.... but in my experience an expedition is comprised of leaders and/or interns in their field of research. If I'm going to the spend grant money (whatever money), I'd go recruit the best minds in their fields... not just American minds.

No.... there could have been all sorts of nationalities on THIS island.

Sorry Roger...* that statement isn't exactly true...* *sorry to be the bringer of bad news.

There are science expeditons that are started everyday...* *the researchers that partake in these expeditions could be ALL french, US, place your favorite country here....* *but in my experience an expedition is comprised of leaders and/or interns in their field of research.* If I'm going to the spend grant money (whatever money), I'd go recruit the best minds in their fields...* not just American minds.

No....* there could have been all sorts of nationalities on THIS island.

I was going to put this on the Is the French Lady French and came over here and it seems to fit. The distress call was in French but the automatic counter was in English. I thought that interesting. Is English the universal language that counter calls like that are in?

Who knows?* The best chocolate coated vanilla ice cream on a stick that I ever had was in Moscow during the Soviet era, and nothing else can touch it.

Also, I was kidding.


I get jokes.

I was going to put this on the Is the French Lady French and came over here and it seems to fit. The distress call was in French but the automatic counter was in English. I thought that interesting. Is English the universal language that counter calls like that are in?


SG, I'm pretty sure I read on another thread the official maretime language is english. Which turns your question around... not why the numbers are in English but why her distress call is in French? It make a LOT of sense that she wouldn't know. She's not a communications officer, she's a scientist, right?

That's another really good question... what was Danielle's capacity on the research expedition? She could have been the cook for all we know.

SG, I'm pretty sure I read on another thread the official maretime language is english.* Which turns your question around...* not why the numbers are in English but why her distress call is in French?* It make a LOT of sense that she wouldn't know.* She's not a communications officer, she's a scientist, right?

That's another really good question...* what was Danielle's capacity on the research expedition?* She could have been the cook for all we know.



Like I said she would use French as that is what she thinks the people that might rescue her speak. But She could have Done the call in several languages and she didn't.

SG, I'm pretty sure I read on another thread the official maretime language is english.* Which turns your question around...* not why the numbers are in English but why her distress call is in French?* It make a LOT of sense that she wouldn't know.* She's not a communications officer, she's a scientist, right?

That's another really good question...* what was Danielle's capacity on the research expedition?* She could have been the cook for all we know.



Three possible reasons why she didn't use English even though it is the official maretime language

1. Because she is french and France and England have alot of BAD history that goes back centuries
2. Because the writers wanted to add a puzzle element to the programme or an air of mistique
3. Because she is French and France and England have alot of BAD history that goes back centuries

I know technicaly this is only two reasons but the first one was such a 'biggy' it was worth mentioning twice

Or, the communication could have been aimed at someone who only spoke French, and not the world in general.* Considering that it was a distress call, she left out a lot of specific information and used a lot of vague inside-knowledge terms.* "Brennan has the key," (or however that went),* what use is that to passing ships?*

... what use is that to passing ships?*


GOOD ONE KATO...it's not supposed to be any help to passing ships!!
I don't think Danielle meant to get rescued by the signal I think she recorded it as.... A WARNING! A la, ALIEN... "It doesn't look like a distress call.... well.... it looks like a warning." - Ripley - ALIEN

Good one KG. I think it is a warning too. The distress signal actually accomplishes 2 things. It warns whomever might hear it of the danger and it also stops any other out going signals. Remember Sayid couldn't send out a signal, instead he received this signal.

Also Danielle seems to speak different languages. When asking Sayid over and over again about ALEX's whereabouts it is in different languages. I would tend to think her scientific crew were of many nationalities. It happens a lot. She uses French for the distress call because that is her native tongue.

Good one KG.* I think it is a warning too.* The distress signal actually accomplishes 2 things.* It warns whomever might hear it of the danger and it also stops any other out going signals.* * Remember Sayid couldn't send out a signal, instead he received this signal.

Also Danielle seems to speak different languages.* When asking Sayid over and over again about ALEX's whereabouts it is in different languages.* I would tend to think her scientific crew were of many nationalities.* It happens a lot.* She uses French for the distress call because that is her native tongue.


Danielle doesn't control the signal. I think she sent it out before she realized the real danger on the island. She know if rescue comes they won't be able to leave either.

Danielle doesn't control the signal. I think she sent it out before she realized the real danger on the island. She know if rescue comes they won't be able to leave either.


Maybe you mis understood me. It is a warning to keep people away. As far as knowing the danger. Part of the transmission states they are all dead it killed them one by one. She knew the danger.

Maybe you mis understood me.* It is a warning to keep people away.* As far as knowing the danger.* Part of the transmission states they are all dead it killed them one by one.* She knew the danger.



FRENCH WOMAN: (from transceiver) (in untranslated French)
SHANNON: "I'm alone now ..." um ... "On the island alone. Please, someone,
come. The others -- they're ... they're dead. It killed them. It killed them
all."

No not a warning.

Wasn't it Danielle who killed them all? I wonder why she's saying "it."

Wasn't it Danielle who killed them all?* I wonder why she's saying "it."

SAYID: Your distress signal -- the message I heard -- you said, "It killed them
all."
(She stands up and takes a couple steps away from Sayid.)
DANIELLE ROUSSEAU: We were coming back from the Black Rock. (She turns
around.) It was them. They were the carriers.
SAYID: Who were the carriers?
DANIELLE ROUSSEAU: The others.
SAYID: (not following) What others? What is the Black Rock? Have you seen
other people on this island?
DANIELLE ROUSSEAU: No. But I hear them. Out there in the jungle. They
whisper.

LATER

DANIELLE ROUSSEAU: The firing pin has been removed. Robert didn't notice it
was missing, either, when I shot him.
SAYID: But you loved him.
DANIELLE ROUSSEAU: He was sick.
SAYID: Sick?
DANIELLE ROUSSEAU: It took them -- one after the other. I had no choice. They
were already lost.
SAYID: You killed them.
DANIELLE ROUSSEAU: What would have happened if we were rescued? I couldn't let
that happen. I won't!
(She lifts her rifle up and points it at Sayid. Sayid tosses the useless rifle
to the side. He turns to Danielle and holds out his hands out wide to his
side.)
SAYID: I'm not sick.
DANIELLE ROUSSEAU: I know.
SAYID: Then why kill me?
DANIELLE ROUSSEAU: (cries) I can't let you go. Don't you understand? To have
someone to talk to ... to touch.
(Sayid takes a step toward Danielle. Danielle gasps and raises her rifle again.
Sayid stops.)
SAYID: "You'll find me in the next life, if not in this one."
DANIELLE ROUSSEAU: (whispers) What?
SAYID: The writing on the back of Nadia's photograph. I know what it's like to
hold on to someone. I've been holding on for the past seven years to just a
thought, a blind hope that somewhere she's still alive. But the more I hold on,
the more I pull away from those around me.
(Sayid steps toward Danielle.)
SAYID: The only way off this ... this place is with their help.
(Danielle puts her rifle down and crouches down as she cries. Sayid kneels down
next to her.)
SAYID: Come with me. (She shakes her head.) You don't have to be alone,
Danielle.
(Danielle reaches out and touches Sayid's face.)
(She comes to a decision.)
(She stands up and puts the rifle around her shoulder and takes a couple of
steps away from Sayid.)
DANIELLE ROUSSEAU: Your people -- the ones you're determined to get back to --
watch them. Watch them closely.
(And with that warning, Danielle turns and leaves. Sayid watches her go. He
scrambles to his feet.)
SAYID: Danielle!
(Danielle stops.)
SAYID: Who is Alex?
DANIELLE ROUSSEAU: (over her shoulder) Alex was my child.


Danielle says they were all sick, as if they were going to die anyway. She put them out of their misery? They were dangerous also?

She makes it sound like they were contagious. "Carriers", "sick"

She makes it sound like they were contagious.* "Carriers", "sick"


It could be that she went mad after her son went, although she didn't say wether he died or was kidnapped by the others

It seems she think he (she / it ?) is still alive, "where is alex". But you're right, we know she's not hitting on all cylinders after 16 years of isolation.

Thanks, Sam Grant.

Well, she lied in her distress call then, right? *For all that she says she had to do it -- and maybe she did -- she killed them, not *"it." *Am I missing something?

No, you aren't. It's a big inconsistency from the message to her words with Sayid. I guess it will remain a mystery until we find out just what she meant by sick.

as i suggested in another thread, the distress call was not on a loop
The distress call changes with every iteration, and the sentences in french are not the same over each iteration

Thanks, Sam Grant.

Well, she lied in her distress call then, right? *For all that she says she had to do it -- and maybe she did -- she killed them, not *"it." *Am I missing something?



Unless we're dealing with Zombies or Vampires. They are already lost. Or Mutated. They will live in an eternal hell. Being able to kill them is equal to salvation.

I don't think we're going there............... something.....If you had to kill your lover. Your child what would bring you to that point if you weren't insane?

Unless we're dealing with Zombies or Vampires. They are already lost.* Or Mutated. They will live in an eternal hell. Being able to kill them is equal to salvation.

I don't think we're going there............... something.....If you had to kill your lover. Your child what would bring you to that point if you weren't insane?


Tofu

Tofu
:lol2: ;D

Yeah if I was stuck on an Island with nothing to eat but Tofu then I would, how do you guys say it, go postal on everyones *** :angel:

This is what I first thought our monster was. It was my very first post 12/27/2004
The sound* clip is what convinced me.
Orangutan
I suggested this stupidly in the VIP section. I didn't know about these boards yet.
The Man of the Forest. Lives on Borneo and Sumatra. The have a very interesting howl. There is also the part about their eyes. Which I really liked. But we have not seen them either.* They were in the Bronx Zoo. "the people of the forest"

http://www.orangutan.org/facts/sounds.php

http://rds.yahoo.com/S=2766679/K=orangutan+call/v=2/SID=e/l=WS1/R=3/IPC=us/SHE=0/H=2/SIG=12fppc71d/EXP=1108926167/*-http%3A//www.orangutan.com/orangutanfacts/orangutan_facts.htm

http://www.grungyape.com/old/orangutan.html

A mutation of their fur? They also share 97% of the same DNA of Homo Sapiens.
The polar bear was there for an experiment with orangutans. We can not see them?

I think we're looking into this too much, the writers probably just thought, "what is the weirdest most unexpected animal to find on a tropical island" besides penguins which dont appear to be that terrifying, I think polar bears is the next best thing.

As wrong as I may be the polar baers are there because of the comic book and Walt.

As wrong as I may be the polar baers are there because of the comic book and Walt.

If that is the case why does Danielle know about them? Talks about them as something that she has learned to deal with.
"If we're lucky it's just the bears."

I'd believe the comic book theory except for Danielle. There is only one bear in the comic book why would there be more?

See, I've always looked at it as: there were already polar bears on the island, but Walt can "summon" them to him by concentrating on an image, i.e. the comic book. When he summoned the bird, he was looking at a picture of one. Lets hope there aren't any pictures of giant invisible pilot-eating tree-uprooting monsters around, or else stay the hell away from THAT kid. ;D

I just have a problem believing the coincidence of there happening to be polar bears on the island and a Spanish language comic book that just happens to have polar bears in it. Like I said I could easily be wrong but the extreme coincidence of the two being on the island or even more remote polar bears on the island and the comic books just happening to be on the airplane when it crashes. Of course nothing is as it appears.

Ok, I've got it.

The polar bears were Ethan's pets and since he liked them so much, he collected all comic books with polar bears in them, and then planted it on the beach where Walt would find them so that Walt could summon the bears to eat all the survivors. :wacko:

Or... umm... yea, you're right, that's a pretty darn good coincidence. :lol2:

Then again, what isn't on this show? I mean... they're all alive, aren't they?

Coincidences abound on Karmic Retribution Island.

Ok, I've got it.

The polar bears were Ethan's pets and since he liked them so much, he collected all comic books with polar bears in them, and then planted it on the beach where Walt would find them so that Walt could summon the bears to eat all the survivors. :wacko:

Or... umm... yea, you're right, that's a pretty darn good coincidence. :lol2:

Then again, what isn't on this show? I mean... they're all alive, aren't they?

Coincidences abound on Karmic Retribution Island.



I know it's hard to say that any one particular thing could or couldn't have happened, I guess that's what makes the show so interesting.. Any theory is possible. So you end up having to expand your perceptions. Deep down I just feel, in the end, the writers will bring this together to make some kind of sense.

I like your Karmic Retribution Island line.

They better make at least some sense out of it before the end of the season, or else I'm going to have a 5 month long headache. :pinch:

Pass the bottle of aspirin please.

Pass the bottle of aspirin please.

I had forgotten that Walt found the comic book on the island. It makes alittle more sense now.

If you were, say, a Jane Goodall type of scientist and brought your child with you, it would not be unusual for your child to want things that contained information about what you were researching. Even silly stuff.

Or another of your research team liked comic books and thought it was funny because it was dealing with what you were working on,

Or that the comic book is really research material. Then everything in the comic could very well be on the island.

Why a comicbook in Spanish? Was the person that owned the comic part of Danielle's team or another survivor from another crash?

I thought Walt found the comic book in the crash, the same way Sawyer found Watership Down, but now that you mention it it could have been on the island--although not for 16 years. (That particular comic book's not that old.)

As to Danielle mentioned the polar bears, as I've mentioned in other threads, there's one part of me that still wonders if Sayid hallucinated Danielle because he was looking for a way to expiate his guilt over torturing Sawyer. (To be clear, I don't think he hallucinated her dwelling or her maps, just her physical presence--combination of photographs lying around and whatever psychotropic substance affected Jack and/or Locke smeared on Boone.) If that's so--and even I'm not sure that it is--then Danielle-as-hallucination was only mentioning the polar bears because Sayid-as-hallucinator had seen one of Walt's manifestations.

Does that make any sense, or am I tripping?

Wow. THANK YOU!

I had almost completely forgotten about that... The moment I saw that she was going to torture him the same way he used to torture people, people he's been haunted by, that he was manifesting her. Which would explain how she knew about the bears, because HE knew about them...

I kind of thought-and it's still a possibility-that Sayid would return to find the bones of a woman and a hut that was recently disturbed by someone, but there would be only one set of footprints... Although, there's also the leg wound from the trap... I dunno. It's all up in the air at this point.

I think Hurley's episode will confirm whether or not Rousseau is really... real.

I like the idea of them ALL being on hallucinogens, but it is ABC.
And if you're tripping, then that means I'm tripping, and this isn't a very good trip. :sorcerer:

Wait a sec...

The polar bear that attacked the hiking group in Pilot pt 1.... that showed up way before Walt and the comic, right?

So, the Polar bear was there already. Shot dead by Sawyer. And Michael made it come back? He somehow summoned it's spirit to help him and his son connect... ? To get over burning his comic..

The boar have moved on but Locke has killed at least one. Sawyer does the same thing to sommon the boar... it steals his stuff and humiliates him...stuff Sawyer did... and he lets the boar go to get over killing the wrong person.

Syid... does the same to a bodyless french voice, there on the island already, (presumably she's dead on the island somewhere, possibly in the cave?)and puts her in an environment he stumbles on to get over his past with torture.

Hmmm
I'll have to add this to another thread... but I predict that Ethan will be summoned, too.

Wait a sec...

The polar bear that attacked the hiking group in Pilot pt 1....* that showed up way before Walt and the comic, right?

So, the Polar bear was there already.* Shot dead by Sawyer.* And Michael made it come back?* He somehow summoned it's spirit to help him and his son connect... ?* To get over burning his comic..

The boar have moved on but Locke has killed at least one.* Sawyer does the same thing to sommon the boar...* it steals his stuff and humiliates him...stuff Sawyer did...* and he lets the boar go to get over killing the wrong person.

Syid...* does the same to a bodyless french voice, there on the island already,* (presumably she's dead on the island somewhere, possibly in the cave?)and puts her in an environment he stumbles on to get over his past with torture.

Hmmm
I'll have to add this to another thread...* but I predict that Ethan will be summoned, too.


I knew there was a reason why I asked, oh so long ago, if Walt had the comic on the plane or if he found it on the island.
The first polar bear attack is before the comicbook is first shown.
I wonder? Are we shown when Walt finds the comic book? It would be before we knew it would be important. It would be Walt just going through stuff. That is something they might not want to show because if he finds it before the polar bear attack, the jumping to conclusions is easier than if we don't know or if we think it is later.

Wait a sec...

The polar bear that attacked the hiking group in Pilot pt 1....* that showed up way before Walt and the comic, right?




No, the comic book was found fairly early on--Sawyer kills the polar bear after we've seen Walt with the comic book, although both happened in the 2-hour pilot.

When asked by Michael, Walt answered something to the tune of..."I found it on the beach".

All things considered... comic books lying about the beach for any given amount of time are going to fade, get wind blown, torn pages, water damage...etc. Walt's comic is in better shape than some I have packed away in the basement !

I think the comic was on the plane. If it was not on the plane (which no one can prove) then it was left VERY recently.

(LOL.... possibly by the spanish gardner that raked up all the footprints made by the people who planted/searched/fixed up all the survivors prior to them waking up. :lol2:

Okay, just to skip back to the invisibility theory of the others as described on page one, perhaps the Others "are" invisible, and maybe they stay in the hatch and come out to see if the bears can sense them or not, seeing as they are "invisible". This would also explain how Ethan snuck by all the guards onto the beach and killed someone, instead of him coming up through the water like they all thought. Or maybe the bears are really a food source for the monster, and thats what keeps their population in check. The hatch could just be a safety spot for the Others to hide from the polar bears and the monsters

A theory in progress:

I admit to seeing Brigadoon many years ago, but did not see a correlation in Lost. Could be, if the writers were not truthful when stating that "time-travel' was not the case of "Lost". (Brigadoon is a town that gets 'suspended' in time and the result is they live/are visible to the real world only one day out of every 100 years in 'real time'.. at least I think I remember it that way.) ???

The invisible stuff, though, could have some interesting implications. i recall in the episode where Locke 'sees' the 'monster'. In that episode, there was a shot of it moving through the jungle and it seemed to move the tall grasses but still could not be seen. In the pilot episode, it seemed to have a rather sizable shape, contradicted in this episode if it could move in grasses of 4 to 6 feet without being seen. Snake type maybe? Still, the clues don't add up conclusively.

If we stretch the premise of what may be visible (as TPTB have indicated is key to understanding what the 'monster' really is) then we can use pseudo science and visability on differing wave lengths to explain anomalies in these differences in perceptions. It would also lend itself to the other 'spoilers' suggested that the viewer is the ultimate judge of what they see.

In other words, the perspective and ability of the viewer would determine what they saw. Not so much emotional, but perhaps specific physical (or additionally psychic) abilities of the viewer to be able to discern aspects that others may not be able to physically see or sense. Sort of like someone who sees auras (color outlines of people that emote the persons emotions and personality) or animals who are reported to have more or less acute abilities to perceive different colors and heat radiants. (Birds of prey sense heat more than color or motion. Cats are said to be sensitive to motion and sound/odor more than color or size, etc.)

This does fit within the 'pseudo science' area the creators have mentioned. It accounts for the claim of TPTB that the pilot saw one thing and died for it, and Locke saw something different and lived to say it was beautiful.

Consider that the 'monster' has differing abilities to see as well... it may sense emotion, heat, psychic connections, etc., and reacts accordingly. Both Locke and the pilot saw the same physical being, but individual perspective (emotional and physical responses) caused a different reaction in the creature to each human.

Yeah!!!!The bears come back around. I really am attached to the idea of the infrared and what we see in certain light.

I think now that the polar bears look to have a purpose their properties many need to be examined again.

I read an interesting theory about DHARMA being a repopulation initiative. Here's the link:

http://www.thefuselage.com/Threaded/showthread.php?t=21626

If you follow that theory then maybe the scientists picked polar bears because it would be difficult to breed them or engineer them in a tropical environment. Maybe they picked an especially challenging species for the climate, thinking that if they could make that work then other species would not be as difficult ro reproduce.

In the beginning of this thread there is a lot of interesting things unique to polar bears. Also, that they used them on Alias. I thought it was funny because they did thee research but never used it on the show. Good research should never be waisted

The CounterAgent 2:07 written by John Eisendrath

(Marshall's office. He's working on a polar bear skin rug, inspecting the fur intently.)

JACK: (voice over) Sloane is scheduled to attend an Alliance meeting in Tokyo. I'll find out the details of his itinerary.

(Jack enters the office.)

JACK: My S.T.U. is not recognizing my crypto-ignition key. I need it fixed.

MARSHALL: Fine. Do you know that polar bears can't be detected by infrared photography? Their fur emits no heat. Nothing. Nada. Zip.

(Jack gives him his trademark cold stare.)

MARSHALL: I guess I thought maybe it would be applicable to something

Polar Bears are large, meat-eating bears who are well-adapted for life in their frozen Arctic environment. They are powerful swimmers who hunt seals in the water. Polar bears can run in bursts up to 25 mph (40 kph).
Anatomy: Polar Bears are up to 10 feet (3 m) long and weigh about 1,700 pounds (770 kg); males are bigger than females. Polar bears have a small head, powerful jaws, and a black nose and tongue. They have a strong sense of smell. They have 42 teeth; the tail is small and flat. They have wide front paws with slightly webbed toes that help them swim. These bears paddle with their front feet and steer with the hind feet.

Fur and Skin: Polar Bears have two types of fur. They have thick, woolly fur close to the skin that keeps them warm. They also have hollow guard hairs that stick up and protect the bears from getting wet. These guard hairs are like drinking straws and are clear-colored (not white). The white-looking coat camouflages them well in the snow and ice. Under the fur, Polar Bears have black skin. They also have a thick layer of fat (up to 4 inches thick) under the skin that helps keep them warm.

Habitat and Range: Polar Bears live in icy Arctic areas of Alaska, Canada, Greenland, Norway, and Russia. They spend much of their time swimming in frigid seas.

Diet: Polar Bears are carnivores (meat-eaters) who frequently hunt and catch their prey in the water, often many miles from land. They are fierce predators who eat mostly seals (and some walruses and other marine mammals). A polar bear's stomach can hold up to 150 pounds. Polar bears don't drink water.

Reproduction: When pregnant, females (called sows) build snow dens in which they spend the winter; they usually give birth to twin cubs. Male polar bears (called boars) are active all year.

Classification: Kingdom Animalia (animals), Phylum Chordata, Class Mammalia (mammals), Order Carnivora, Family Ursidae (bears), Genus Ursus, species U. maritimus (meaning "sea bear").

******A few more interesting fact about the polar bear. Things that start to fit. 42 teeth, Norway has now come into play. They don't drink water is very interesting.

This is what I first thought our monster was. It was my very first post 12/27/2004
The sound* clip is what convinced me.
Orangutan
I suggested this stupidly in the VIP section. I didn't know about these boards yet.
The Man of the Forest. Lives on Borneo and Sumatra. The have a very interesting howl. There is also the part about their eyes. Which I really liked. But we have not seen them either.* They were in the Bronx Zoo. "the people of the forest"

http://www.orangutan.org/facts/sounds.php
http://www.junglewalk.com/frames.asp

*http://rds.yahoo.com/S=2766679/K=orangutan+call/v=2/SID=e/l=WS1/R=3/IPC=us/SHE=0/H=2/SIG=12fppc71d/EXP=1108926167/*-http%3A//www.orangutan.com/orangutanfacts/orangutan_facts.htm

http://www.grungyape.com/old/orangutan.html

A mutation of their fur? They also share 97% of the same DNA of Homo Sapiens.
The polar bear was there for an experiment with orangutans. We can not see them?
http://www.thehansofoundation.org/lep.html Yes, I take this as vindication that I am at least on the right track. We know how important Orange is.

Maybe we are in the future and the tropical island was once the arctic before global warming................

On the animlas of the island theme - Did you know wild boars exist on every contintent other than the antarctic ?

http://www.thefuselage.com/Threaded/showthread.php?t=32200 Why a Polar Bear would be on the island.

Now that the Polar Bear seems to be mentioned on the Hatch Map, I think it's time to bring him back again for discussion and to add what was said on the map about them.

stated goal repatriation accelerated de-territorialization of ursus maritimus through gene therapy and extreme climate change

ursus maritimus being a polar bear.
anyone remember gus the polar bear from central park he was depressed (maybe from the territory chnge) i hope this turns out to be somehow related to that cause it would be the wierdest dumb luck to have my username named after a tragically hip song and then it turns up on lost

ursus maritimus being a polar bear.
anyone remember gus the polar bear from central park he was depressed (maybe from the territory chnge) i hope this turns out to be somehow related to that cause it would be the wierdest dumb luck to have my username named after a tragically hip song and then it turns up on lost Thank you, exactly what I was looking for.

And remember the special quality about polar bear fur and infrered light. Since we have our wonderful black light to show us stuff we couldn't see without it , we also have infrered light that can hide things we could see without it. Confused yet? Polar bears have 42 teeth.:biggrin:

Oh, the poor, depressed polar bear.... he kept swimming and swimming in circles....
they got him a jacuzzi to cheer him up.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/cbbcnews/hi/animals/newsid_2089000/2089842.stm
You can take a polar bear quiz there. hehe. Sam, I expect you to get a passing grade. :biggrin:

So it does appear that the polar bears were brought to the island to see how they'd do in the climate change. Well, they seemed pretty angry. Attacking the Losties on their first trek (RIP first polar bear) and attacking Walt later (that one ran away?). I wonder if there were only 2 polar bears on the island. Maybe there are more? Or maybe there was a male and female only, and the scientists wanted to see if they'd make baby polar bears, but the male and female were too depressed to mate?

Oh, the poor, depressed polar bear.... he kept swimming and swimming in circles....
they got him a jacuzzi to cheer him up.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/cbbcnews/hi/animals/newsid_2089000/2089842.stm
You can take a polar bear quiz there. hehe. Sam, I expect you to get a passing grade. :biggrin:

So it does appear that the polar bears were brought to the island to see how they'd do in the climate change. Well, they seemed pretty angry. Attacking the Losties on their first trek (RIP first polar bear) and attacking Walt later (that one ran away?). I wonder if there were only 2 polar bears on the island. Maybe there are more? Or maybe there was a male and female only, and the scientists wanted to see if they'd make baby polar bears, but the male and female were too depressed to mate? LL it's sad that Polar Bears only live 15-18 years in the wild.

LL it's sad that Polar Bears only live 15-18 years in the wild.
so the ones on the island must not have been there for a really long time

so the ones on the island must not have been there for a really long time

Unless the scientists weren't just testing climate change on them, but also preliminary life-extension work (before testing it on themselves?).

Unless the scientists weren't just testing climate change on them, but also preliminary life-extension work (before testing it on themselves?).
a possibiliy or these are the offspring of original or its not even a natural polar bear but a scientifically altered form of one i know when i read those whisper transcripts i got the feeling the bear was being ordered

a possibiliy or these are the offspring of original or its not even a natural polar bear but a scientifically altered form of one i know when i read those whisper transcripts i got the feeling the bear was being ordered

Wasn't clear to me from the polar bear transcripts whether the bear was being ordered or they were attempting to attack/take Walt by using the bear as a means of distraction and harassment....
But a definite possibility.

(Anyone who reads this and is confused by the transcript discussion, click the link in my sig. line for the Whispers thread.)

I don't think it's been mentioned in this thread (I did a search), but the polar bear is in danger of extinction because of global warming:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polar_bear

"Their range is limited by the availability of sea ice that they use as a platform to hunt seal, the mainstay of their diet. The destruction of its habitat on the Arctic ice, which may be caused by global warming, threatens the bear's survival as a species; it may become extinct within the century. Signs of this have already been observed at the southern edges of its range."

Polar bears can swim up to 70 miles from one ice floe to another, but no farther; ice floes farther away, they die of exhaustion.

Polar bears certainly aren't adapted to life on a tropical island (whether or not there are seals or sea lions there--there are seals in Hawaii, the Galapagos and New Zealand, but I don't think there are any on other South Pacific islands). But we know that one of the Dharma projects was zoology. Perhaps these are genetically altered polar bears that have learned to hunt in a different way? And the purpose of the experiment is to see whether they can survive and breed on this island?


P.S.: Contemplating the extinction of the beautiful polar bear is an awful thing, but it will be the least of the turmoil we will face when the Greenland ice cap melts and the seas begin to rise. For one thing, some South Pacific nations will cease to exist.

I have to clear this up, as all this "invisible on infrared film" nonsense about polar bears is getting to me. Polar bears are very well insulated, and thus do not radiate much IR energy (except around the snout area). This does not mean they don't reflect IR, or that their reflected IR can't vary from the IR background. Thus, their IR signature is pretty good camo, but does not make them "invisible" in the IR spectrum.

Polar bears are pretty sneaky, by the way: they have been observed standing over ice holes, hunting seals, with one of their paws over their snout to hide their black noses.

Hmmm, maybe seals can see in the IR spectrum too, LOL!

I have to clear this up, as all this "invisible on infrared film" nonsense about polar bears is getting to me. Polar bears are very well insulated, and thus do not radiate much IR energy (except around the snout area). This does not mean they don't reflect IR, or that their reflected IR can't vary from the IR background. Thus, their IR signature is pretty good camo, but does not make them "invisible" in the IR spectrum.

Polar bears are pretty sneaky, by the way: they have been observed standing over ice holes, hunting seals, with one of their paws over their snout to hide their black noses.

Hmmm, maybe seals can see in the IR spectrum too, LOL! http://www.coe.berkeley.edu/engnews/spring03/3S/polarbear.html
There's also information in the 1st post.

The Polar Bear information also appeared in "Alias" and I don't think they ever it to it's full extent. Back in the first season they were telling us to pay attention to things things we couldn't hear or see.

http://www.coe.berkeley.edu/engnews/spring03/3S/polarbear.html
There's also information in the 1st post.

The Polar Bear infromation also appeared in "Alias" and I don't think they ever it to it's full extent. Back in the first season they were telling us to pay attention to things things we couldn't hear or see.
Yeah, nifty. Did you read it? "She discovered that polar bear hair has the same radiative properties as snow."

Please re-read my post.

Yeah, nifty. Did you read it? "She discovered that polar bear hair has the same radiative properties as snow."

Please re-read my post. Yes, I did. I see what you are saying. There are many articles that refer to polar bears being photographed with infrared film and all that shows are their nose, eyes and breath. Are you saying is the reason they don't show up is because their hair has the same radiative properties as snow?

I think when we were first looking at this the Polar bear was new to us. I think we started looking at many things besides Infrared we went into UV and other things. I think the point of the polar bear has many things attached to it, one being what we see under certain light because when you look up polar bears all the articles come up about Infrared light.

http://www.twoevilmonks.org/alias/season2/as207p5.htm

Polar bear on Alias. What was Marshall trying to prove with the polar bear fur? Who wrote the episode? off on a hunt.

The CounterAgent 2:07 written by John Eisendrath

(Marshall's office. He's working on a polar bear skin rug, inspecting the fur intently.)

JACK: (voice over) Sloane is scheduled to attend an Alliance meeting in Tokyo. I'll find out the details of his itinerary.

(Jack enters the office.)

JACK: My S.T.U. is not recognizing my crypto-ignition key. I need it fixed.

MARSHALL: Fine. Do you know that polar bears can't be detected by infrared photography? Their fur emits no heat. Nothing. Nada. Zip.

(Jack gives him his trademark cold stare.)

MARSHALL: I guess I thought maybe it would be applicable to something

Kendall is in this episode. (Terry O'Quinn)

Yes, I did. I see what you are saying. There are many articles that refer to polar bears being photographed with infrared film and all that shows are their nose, eyes and breath. Are you saying is the reason they don't show up is because their hair has the same radiative properties as snow?

I think when we were first looking at this the Polar bear was new to us. I think we started looking at many things besides Infrared we went into UV and other things. I think the point of the polar bear has many things attached to it, one being what we see under certain light because when you look up polar bears all the articles come up about Infrared light.
Cool. Thanks for the Alias post, too. I would think in a jungle, a polar bear would be easier to spot in the IR spectrum, since the background IR, both radiated and reflected, would differ significantly from the polar bear.

Cool. Thanks for the Alias post, too. I would think in a jungle, a polar bear would be easier to spot in the IR spectrum, since the background IR, both radiated and reflected, would differ significantly from the polar bear.

So, hypothetically, in the jungle the polar bear would be shown by a hole in the background as the rest of the foliage would reflect heat? (just trying to see if I can tell where this is going? no pun intended)

I still haven't see anything on the show that would implicate a mutation of the polar bears, other than surviving in the jungle. I don't see Smokey being related to a polar bear or the SS and I haven't seen any evidence of any other "invisible" monsters, but then I've been told that sometimes I'm slow to catch on.

Sam G, speaking of things you can't see, do you know if anyone has come up with a theory explaining why no one can see the "Others" footprints, like around the bonfire in Exodus?

So, hypothetically, in the jungle the polar bear would be shown by a hole in the background as the rest of the foliage would reflect heat? (just trying to see if I can tell where this is going? no pun intended)

I still haven't see anything on the show that would implicate a mutation of the polar bears, other than surviving in the jungle. I don't see Smokey being related to a polar bear or the SS and I haven't seen any evidence of any other "invisible" monsters, but then I've been told that sometimes I'm slow to catch on.

Sam G, speaking of things you can't see, do you know if anyone has come up with a theory explaining why no one can see the "Others" footprints, like around the bonfire in Exodus? Well, the bonfire in Exodus, the pot that is burning is up on stilts. The tide could have come in and gone out again.

I think the Polar Bear may have just been giving us a clue, to open up to the possibility of things that can be hidden in certain light or ,as it seems now, revealed. Just like Locke talking about the dog whistle he made for Vincent, the sound is there, it's just beyond our hearing range.

Well, the bonfire in Exodus, the pot that is burning is up on stilts. The tide could have come in and gone out again.

I think the Polar Bear may have just been giving us a clue, to open up to the possibility of things that can be hidden in certain light or ,as it seems now, revealed. Just like Locke talking about the dog whistle he made for Vincent, the sound is there, it's just beyond our hearing range.
I agree. Anyone play Splinter Cell?

Well, the bonfire in Exodus, the pot that is burning is up on stilts. The tide could have come in and gone out again.


I'm feeling dense. I always thought Danielle set the fire herself to trick the Losties into thinking that the Others were coming. Charlie said that, at least. But maybe I believed him and I was supposd to believe Danielle. :confused:

I'm feeling dense. I always thought Danielle set the fire herself to trick the Losties into thinking that the Others were coming. Charlie said that, at least. But maybe I believed him and I was supposd to believe Danielle. :confused: Exodus part 3
Sayid: Danielle!
Charlie: You come out, right now!
Sayid: Calm down. Danielle! I can hear you, come out. Please, he needs his mother.
Danielle: [Crying] They were not here.
Sayid: Danielle, you have to give us the baby.
Danielle: [Crying] I just wanted my Alex back. I thought if I gave them the baby...
Sayid: It's okay. I know. It's okay.
Charlie: I've got him. There never were any others. You started the fires yourself.
Danielle: [Crying] No, I heard them whispering.
Charlie: You're a nut job. You heard nothing.
Danielle: [Crying] I heard them say they were coming for the child. The others said they were coming for the boy.

Danielle may have started the fire but what would the point be? She was trying to find the Others to trade Aaron for Alex, this is where she thought they would be.

Exodus part 3
Sayid: Danielle!
Charlie: You come out, right now!
Sayid: Calm down. Danielle! I can hear you, come out. Please, he needs his mother.
Danielle: [Crying] They were not here.
Sayid: Danielle, you have to give us the baby.
Danielle: [Crying] I just wanted my Alex back. I thought if I gave them the baby...
Sayid: It's okay. I know. It's okay.
Charlie: I've got him. There never were any others. You started the fires yourself.
Danielle: [Crying] No, I heard them whispering.
Charlie: You're a nut job. You heard nothing.
Danielle: [Crying] I heard them say they were coming for the child. The others said they were coming for the boy.

Danielle may have started the fire but what would the point be? She was trying to trade Aaron for Alex.

I guess I thought that she started the fire, hoping that the Others would come to it, sensing that it looked like their type of fire. But yeah, that doesn't *quite* make sense...

Here we are with invisability again.

It just occurred to me, why are there still polar bears on the island? Wouldn't Smokey and the polar bears have had a run in by now?

Are we going to find out why DHARMA used Polar Bears?

I started watching this show in Fall, 2005 and became seriously obsessed with a few key things... two being Island location and polar bears.. After hours upon hours I centered around Oceania and decided the location of the island was 48-15-00 / 162-34-20 by the New Zealand sub-antarctic islands.. This region is one of eight "ecozones", this being the Australasian ecozone..

What was interesting about this region is bold/italicized:
(source: Wikipedia 11/2005: Australasia Ecozone)


The boundary between Australasia and Indomalaya follows the Wallace Line (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wallace_Line), named after the naturalist Alfred Russel Wallace (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alfred_Russel_Wallace) who noted the differences in mammal and bird fauna between the islands either side of the line. The Islands to the west of the line, including Java (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Java_%28island%29), Bali (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bali), Borneo (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Borneo), and the Philippines (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philippines) share a similar fauna with East Asia, including tigers (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tiger), rhinoceros (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rhinoceros), and apes (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ape).

During the ice ages (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ice_age), sea levels were lower, exposing the continental shelf that links these islands to one another and to Asia, and allowed Asian land animals to inhabit these islands. Similarly, Australia and New Guinea are linked by a shallow continental shelf, and were linked by a land bridge during the ice ages.

A group of Australasian islands east of the Wallace line, including Sulawesi, Halmahera, Lombok, Flores, Sumba, Sumbawa, and Timor, is separated by deep water from both the southeast Asian continental shelf and the Australia-New Guinea continental shelf. These islands are called Wallacea (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wallacea), and contain relatively few Australian or Asian mammals. While most land mammals found it difficult to cross the Wallace Line, many plant, bird, and reptile species were better able to make the crossing.

Apparently years and years ago, there was a land bridge which allowed animals to migrate on foot along the Wallace Line (http://www.starfish.ch/dive/Wallacea.html).. I always wondered if the polar bears are a hint at this land bridge, and the island is seriously old - as in ice ages old.

It just occurred to me, why are there still polar bears on the island? Wouldn't Smokey and the polar bears have had a run in by now?


You are wondering how Smokey and the polar bears could co-exsist on the island. I have been wondering how polar bears and cows could co-exsist on the island. That never made sense to me. I would assume that the polar bears would have completely wiped out the cows right from the start.