In watching Adrift again, it occurred to me that a lot of tragedy could have been avoided if Sawyer had been unsuccessful in reviving Michael by CPR while they were on the destroyed raft.
Michael's character had so little value in the storytelling of Season 2 -- aside from, of course, the big bang when he killed Ana and Libby -- that he would not have been missed. And then we wouldn't have the visceral reaction to "WAAAAAALT!" and "I'm going to get my boy back!" which were probably 50% of his lines all season.
If Michael had not survived the raft, it would have been a dramatic scene -- imagine Sawyer's mixed feelings of grief --yes, Sawyer can feel grief -- and remorse at any indirect part he played in bringing the Others to attack them out there. And Michael would have died with dignity, instead of having the dignity of his character destroyed by his misguided actions in TFTR through the end of the season. We would have remembered him as the capable builder, Captain Han Solo, and a father who had reconnected with his son. Instead we get a morally bankrupt character who easily and unnecessarily killed the people who had helped on the other side of the island, in the misguided quest to "get his boy back."
As for Walt, I think Jack and the other fusies would not have given up on rescuing Walt, and would have mounted a rescue mission regardless -- but at the right time, and not with the stupid plan that Michael forced on them.

I kind of wish that Michael had not been revived. His character in S1 was interesting and added quite a bit to the developement of the story, but in S2 he was a selfish jerk who cared about nothing but himseld and Walt. Sure, Walt is his son and Michael wanted to get him back more than anything in the world, but there are so many more ways to get the job done than by murdering other characters.

Much of the story still could have been developed in other ways to arrive at the conclusion (or lack there of) of S2 without Michael being involved.

haha, I had to laugh when I saw this. I'm in the process of coming up with a list that blames every bad thing that's ever happened on the island on Micheal. So far I've got anything from the obvious Ana and Libby to Charlie being reintroduced to the drugs.... I'm still woking on Boone... ;)

Anyways, I have to agree with most of this. I thought his story looking for his son was really sad and showed how far he had come with Walt and how far he was willing to go for him, which was all well and good, but it got really annoying really fast. Plus all the obvious down falls. I agree that there had to be some other way to do that!

Consider this:
**MOD edited**
(I might get in trouble with the Fuselage Overseers about this, but I felt it needed to be said.)

Well, this got incredibly off topic.... but in the writers defense....

-Micheal's story was to show his love for Walt and his desperation to find him at any costs. The reason people are more upset about Libby than Ana is simply beucase Libby was a 'nice to all' character and Ana was a very 'kick ***' character. It's easier to be sad for the nice one. Libby I guess seemed more vuleneralbe, than Ana with her hard core way.
-Eko is a fan favorite. 23rd Psalms was argueably the best episode of the season. One of the best of the show, IMO. His show down with smoky is one of the most talked about scenes. Plus he got lots to do in the final few episodes
-Sayid needed time to mourn. He just lost the woman he loved. You can't expected him to go to battle the next day. Even still 'henry' gave him a good story line and brought him into the spot light for a few episodes. Season 1 he was a front line character and I believe season 3 will bring that back some, especially with J/K/S gone
-Jin and Sun have always gotten a backburner. But that's really becuase of the characters. Sun is a practicer of non-violence and Jin doesn't speak english. It's hard for them because of that to go on A-team missions. But again, Jin got a lot of spot light in the begining of the season
-My understanding is that Rose is not actually a main character. Plus, the actress works threater a lot and so isn't able to be around to shoot Lost all the time. But, she's also a fan favorite due to her kindness and motherly way
-Michelle only wanted to work a year on Lost. Her death was planned from the begining. Plus, Ana did a lot to move the show forward during her time, whether you like her or not, you can't deny that
-Walt's mear lack of presence had a huge effect on the show. But you must also factor in the fact that it's hard to work with child actors becuase they age more noticably. Walt's only aged two months, but Malcom's aged two years. They had to deal with that somehow
-Hurley is an american. If he was born and raised in the states (as I believe he was.. at least raised) then of course he's going to act american. That doesn't change that he's hispanic

I think it's all in your head, honestly. When you've got a show as complicated and with as large a cast as Lost, it's hard to accomidate every character. I hate that, but it's the truth. Not every story line can accomidate every character either. Plus, it's not only the non-americans that get it. Boone and Shanoon were very white american... and look what happened to them. They have such an international cast with such diverse characters, it's going to happen that some of them don't get the goods as much. I think it's mearly a coincidense.

But let's get back on topic....

Let's say Josh Holloway, or any other handsome caucasian actor for that matter, portrayed Michael on Lost. Let's also say Haley Joel Osment(A.I.), or any other cute caucasian kid actor, portrayed Walt. Now, leaving all the plot elements the same(i.e. Michael desperately looks for Walt, Michael kills Ana-Lucia and Libby, Michael leads Jack, Kate, Sawyer and Hurley into the hands of the "Others") I'm betting "Fans" would be a lot more sympathetic and forgiving towards a "caucasian" Michael doing whatever was necessary to retrieve his "caucasian" boy Walt. (As proof of this, consider how liked Sawyer is despite being a murderer and killer of innocent tree frogs(lol!))Getting back off-topic: however you boil it down, Season two of Lost was little more than the tropical adventures of Jack, Kate, Sawyer and Locke with a little Charlie mixed-in. Considering that "Jack" was supposed to die in the Series pilot, Michael Fox proverbially hit the lotto. Eh?

Are you serious? I definatly don't think that would occur. Sawyer is much different than Michael becuase we didn't know this Tom Bucket (or whatever his name was). And a tree frog?.... much different than two people. We felt for Libby and Ana all season 2 and then they die... just the same as when people were sad over Boone and Shanoon. To add to it, many people that were Boone fans, now hate (or hated for a while) Locke becuase they feel he is responsible for Boone's death. Race has nothing to do with it. You can't compare Sawyer and Micheal because Sawyer has yet to kill a character we care about. They're both murders but no one on this show really cares for that shrimp guy we knew for about 15 min.

Sawyer has yet to kill a character we care about. They're both murders but no one on this show really cares for that shrimp guy we knew for about 15 min.

Since it was a hypothetical scenario, I guess we'll never know. As for Locke...go check out his forum...he's still well loved by fans despite killing Boone and putting all the Losties at risk in the season finale to "test his theory". For the record, I sympathize with Michael as a character and understand, though I don't condone, all the actions he took to get Walt back. I would have been sympathetic, regardless of the color of his skin or ethnicity.
So, if Sawyer had killed lets say a 100 characters we didn't know personally, it would still be all right? He'd still be a sympathetic character in your eyes?

Since it was a hypothetical scenario, I guess we'll never know. As for Locke...go check out his forum...he's still well loved by fans despite killing Boone and putting all the Losties at risk in the season finale to "test his theory". For the record, I sympathize with Michael as a character and understand, though I don't condone, all the actions he took to get Walt back. I would have been sympathetic, regardless of the color of his skin or ethnicity.
So, if Sawyer had killed lets say a 100 characters we didn't know personally, it would still be all right? He'd still be a sympathetic character in your eyes?

Melikon, I just couldn't agree with you...less.
Yeah, maybe we can't re-reel the entire series and cast Michael as a white man, but I have never seen anything resembling racial bias in people's hatred or annoyance with Michael. His character dissolved into a one-track, one-dimensional character that did an unforgiveable thing. Besides, lots of people hated Ana Lucia as well. Do you call racial/ethnic bias there? Or was it because she had killed a character we'd grown to like, or maybe she was just surly?
Then again, lots of people hate Jack and he hasn't killed anyone. They seem to hate him for being the lead, or too good at whatever.
The proposition that Lost has become a white man's show is ignoring many things that Tigerlily pointed out, as well as a few more.
Eko has been very influential in the mythology of the hatch in ? and the finale. He dominated the religious symbolism and theme of the second half of the season.
Sayid was not seen as much as most people would like, but he played a major part in finding out about the Others: with Henry in the hatch, the balloon discovery, and the (albeit misguided) plan to flank the Others' camp.
Jin and Sun had two flashbacks in both seasons, and their story this year seemed more focused on their own relationship than when Jin was involved with building the raft. Sun's pregnancy might be a piece of the puzzle of the island's powers. But Jin didn't just disappear. (His amusement when Hurley attacked Sawyer needed no words.)
Rose was seen much more than 2-3 times, and did have a flashback episode, you recall, with her white husband. Her unexplained healing was another big piece of the island mythology, at least for us viewers.

Lost has the most international and diverse cast I've seen, except for the Star Trek franchise which included characters from other planets. :rolleyes: I think the writers have handled the cross of cultures in really interesting (i.e. Sayid & Shannon, Rose & Bernard, Ana & Eko's friendship) and usually respectful ways.

PS I never imagined the discussion would end up on this topic when I opened the thread. My apologies.

Melikon, I just couldn't agree with you...less.
Yeah, maybe we can't re-reel the entire series and cast Michael as a white man, but I have never seen anything resembling racial bias in people's hatred or annoyance with Michael. His character dissolved into a one-track, one-dimensional character that did an unforgiveable thing. Besides, lots of people hated Ana Lucia as well. Do you call racial/ethnic bias there? Or was it because she had killed a character we'd grown to like, or maybe she was just surly?
Then again, lots of people hate Jack and he hasn't killed anyone. They seem to hate him for being the lead, or too good at whatever.
The proposition that Lost has become a white man's show is ignoring many things that Tigerlily pointed out, as well as a few more.
Eko has been very influential in the mythology of the hatch in ? and the finale. He dominated the religious symbolism and theme of the second half of the season.
Sayid was not seen as much as most people would like, but he played a major part in finding out about the Others: with Henry in the hatch, the balloon discovery, and the (albeit misguided) plan to flank the Others' camp.
Jin and Sun had two flashbacks in both seasons, and their story this year seemed more focused on their own relationship than when Jin was involved with building the raft. Sun's pregnancy might be a piece of the puzzle of the island's powers. But Jin didn't just disappear. (His amusement when Hurley attacked Sawyer needed no words.)
Rose was seen much more than 2-3 times, and did have a flashback episode, you recall, with her white husband. Her unexplained healing was another big piece of the island mythology, at least for us viewers.

Lost has the most international and diverse cast I've seen, except for the Star Trek franchise which included characters from other planets. :rolleyes: I think the writers have handled the cross of cultures in really interesting (i.e. Sayid & Shannon, Rose & Bernard, Ana & Eko's friendship) and usually respectful ways.

PS I never imagined the discussion would end up on this topic when I opened the thread. My apologies.

Count the number of forum threads for each of the characters, the numbers speak for themselves.

An international cast...that is slowly but surely becoming more and more provincial.(i.e. Ana-Lucia dead, Michael and Walt a non-factor for season three, Hurley as caucasian as can be and Jin the mute) Also, lets not forget more caucasian characters are on the way (i.e. Penny, Tom(Zeke), Fenry Gale, Desmond, Rousseau's daughter, the other caucasian other with the needles, and the other newbies arriving) All the writers need to do is kill off Jin, Sun, Sayid and Eko and you'd essentially be left with "Friends" set in Hawaii.

Compare Eko with Locke (since the two are similar character-wise) in terms of screen-time and screen presence. If you don't think the whole show centers around Jack, Kate, Sawyer Locke and Charlie, your just not watching the same show I am.

As for Ana-Lucia, I do think were she a pretty caucasian actress with the same rough and tough personality, she wouldn't have been hated as much (i.e. Starbuck in BSG, Lucy Lawless as Zena, Buffy the Vampire Slayer, Lara Croft, Sydney for Alias, Dark Angel, etc.).

Count the number of forum threads for each of the characters, the numbers speak for themselves.

An international cast...that is slowly but surely becoming more and more provincial.(i.e. Ana-Lucia dead, Michael and Walt a non-factor for season three, Hurley as caucasian as can be and Jin the mute) Also, lets not forget more caucasian characters are on the way (i.e. Penny, Tom(Zeke), Fenry Gale, Desmond, Rousseau's daughter, the other caucasian other with the needles, and the other newbies arriving) All the writers need to do is kill off Jin, Sun, Sayid and Eko and you'd essentially be left with "Friends" set in Hawaii.

Compare Eko with Locke (since the two are similar character-wise) in terms of screen-time and screen presence. If you don't think the whole show centers around Jack, Kate, Sawyer Locke and Charlie, your just not watching the same show I am.

As for Ana-Lucia, I do think were she a pretty caucasian actress with the same rough and tough personality, she wouldn't have been hated as much (i.e. Starbuck in BSG, Lucy Lawless as Zena, Buffy the Vampire Slayer, Lara Croft, Sydney for Alias, Dark Angel, etc.).
Did any of them kill a well known or well liked character on the show? (I don't know all the shows well enough to answer.)

As for the demographics of Lost, hmmm...let's see... in terms of characters we got to know, so far they've killed off:
- the Marshall - white guy
- Boone (funny, I remember him as a rich white guy)
- Shannon - blonde female, demographic same as above
- Nathan - white guy, unknown income demographic
- Ethan - white guy, unknown income demographic, last known address Craphole Island
- Libby - blonde, female, demographic apparently same as Boone & Shannon (her husband had a yacht)
- Ana Lucia - black haired Hispanic, middle class

Take a look at those numbers.

I can't believe I'm having this conversation.

Did any of them kill a well known or well liked character on the show? (I don't know all the shows well enough to answer.)

As for the demographics of Lost, hmmm...let's see... in terms of characters we got to know, so far they've killed off:
- the Marshall - white guy
- Boone (funny, I remember him as a rich white guy)
- Shannon - blonde female, demographic same as above
- Nathan - white guy, unknown income demographic
- Ethan - white guy, unknown income demographic, last known address Craphole Island
- Libby - blonde, female, demographic apparently same as Boone & Shannon (her husband had a yacht)
- Ana Lucia - black haired Hispanic, middle class

Take a look at those numbers.

I can't believe I'm having this conversation.

What are you counting the dead people for?

Jack, Sawyer, Locke, Kate, Bernard, Charlie, Claire, Fenry, Tom, Penny, Desmond, the needle guy, Rousseau, Rousseau's daughter, the new caucasian lady.(15)

vs.

Jin, Sun, Eko, Sayid and Rose(5)

Hurley(?)

15:5 = 3:1
International cast....yeah ok
Multiculturalism at it's apex.
Listen, I completely understand that caucasian fans would obviously gravitate towards the caucasian characters, it's just the way it is. But to wish that Michael had never survived season one?! and then to bad mouth him for actions that any father, regardless of race, would have committed to get his son back!!! Jeez Louise!!!

What are you counting the dead people for?
Listen, I completely understand that caucasian fans would obviously gravitate towards the caucasian characters, it's just the way it is. But to wish that Michael had never survived season one?! and then to bad mouth him for actions that any father, regardless of race, would have committed to get his son back!!! Jeez Louise!!!

emmmm, no. That is not at all the case. I do NOT gravitate towards a caucasian character just becuase their eithicity. That's just ridiculious and I am honestly offended that you would assume such a thing about me. Eko and Sayid are two of my favorite characters and last time I checked neither of them are white americans.

I was saying that some people didn't like Locke after that. I personally know a couple of them. Not that everyone feels that way, not everyone even hates Michael for his deeds. This board does not necesarily represent the majority of the viewers, we are only a dedicated few. You are right , that it's hypothtical, so we don't know what would happen if Sawyer had killed Ana and Libby, or if Michael was white. But you better believe that my opinion of Sawyer would drop dramatcially if he killed someone I actually cared about like Michael did.

Plus, yes, Micheal's intentions were good (getting your kidnapped son back is never a bad thing) but he went about it in VERY WRONG ways. There had to have been another option and I refuse to believe otherwise. His actions I would frown upon no matter who did it. Even if it was one of my favorite characters.

emmmm, no. That is not at all the case. I do NOT gravitate towards a caucasian character just becuase their eithicity. That's just ridiculious and I am honestly offended that you would assume such a thing about me. Eko and Sayid are two of my favorite characters and last time I checked neither of them are white americans.

I was saying that some people didn't like Locke after that. I personally know a couple of them. Not that everyone feels that way, not everyone even hates Michael for his deeds. This board does not necesarily represent the majority of the viewers, we are only a dedicated few. You are right , that it's hypothtical, so we don't know what would happen if Sawyer had killed Ana and Libby, or if Michael was white. But you better believe that my opinion of Sawyer would drop dramatcially if he killed someone I actually cared about like Michael did.

Plus, yes, Micheal's intentions were good (getting your kidnapped son back is never a bad thing) but he went about it in VERY WRONG ways. There had to have been another option and I refuse to believe otherwise. His actions I would frown upon no matter who did it. Even if it was one of my favorite characters.

Tigerlily, First off I apologize if you were offended by what I wrote, It was not leveled at anyone specifically. As for Michael, you realize what your doing, what we all are doing is, Monday Morning Quarterbacking the events on Lost. We list our thoughts and feelings after the fact, with the benefit of having already watched events play out on the show. How differently we'd have perceived Michael had he done all the same things minus killing Ana-Lucia & Libby and retrieved Walt. We would have said he was as right as rain for doing everything he did. That he was a hero.
The boards may not represent all the fans of Lost, but they do represent the die-hard ones and in terms of getting our feelings across to the creators, we are their sounding board, so I'd say were more important than the layman fans.
I also dont agree with your and Workingmom's wish for Michael to have never survived the season two premiere. Your basing that desire with the knowledge of future events. Either that or you just can't stand Michael at all, in which case this thread should have been started in the "I'm not into you section" Personally I don't think any of the other Losties would have made a concerted effort to retrieve Walt had Michael perished(no ties being as thick as blood), but once again we'll never know.
P.S. If your such a Sayid/Eko fan why do I always see you in the Charlie and Claire boards?;)

If Micheal hadn't killed Ana and Libby what reason would there be to hate him? The way he choose to go about getting Walt back is the problem. If he had just freed Henry without murder, It wouldn't have bad. Although, he still would of had to betray people who were trying to help him get his son back and that is not good either, and is still enough reason for me to be upset with him. But, killing Ana and Libby is the reason I am angry with Micheal at this moment. So, I don't understand what you mean by this... becuase seeing the whole thing is the imporatant part. I wouldn't have called Michael a hero for getting Walt back if he had still turned in 4 members of his camp, murders or not. If he had found a way to do it without betraying/killing anyone, then he'd be a hero.

Yes, I am biasing it on future events. Back in Season 1 and early season 2, when he hadn't hurt anyone, I had nothing against the guy. It wasn't until he murdered two of his fellow castaways and betrayed four others, that I started to grudge him. I personally don't wish any of the characters death and I was (mostly) joking with my list. It was just interesting to think of all the things that wouldn't have happened had this one character not been around. Whether he died, or just was never on the plane. I think that was the point of this thread. To talk and think about everything that may have been different had he not survived. (That's how I took it anyway, but obviously, i didn't start the thread)

As a side note- I don't necessarliy think that those here are the only die-hard fans either. I know a couple personally who are just as involved in Lost as I am, but they don't come on here. Maybe they don't know of it, or actually have a life and are too busy to come on. And even if they aren't that huge of a fan and obsess over it as I and many others here do, that doesn't mean their opinion doesn't matter. They still watch and enjoy the show.
You'll see me on the Charlie an Claire boards a lot becuase they are also some of my favorite characters. I pretty much love them all, but I have my favorites. Charlie, Claire, Eko and Sayid (in no particular order) all make up four of my top 5. Problay Sawyer as the fifth. But regardless, I visit all the boards fairly reguarly, but some threads I don't have anything to add too and some I do.

Let's say Josh Holloway, or any other handsome caucasian actor for that matter, portrayed Michael on Lost. Let's also say Haley Joel Osment(A.I.), or any other cute caucasian kid actor, portrayed Walt. Now, leaving all the plot elements the same(i.e. Michael desperately looks for Walt, Michael kills Ana-Lucia and Libby, Michael leads Jack, Kate, Sawyer and Hurley into the hands of the "Others") I'm betting "Fans" would be a lot more sympathetic and forgiving towards a "caucasian" Michael doing whatever was necessary to retrieve his "caucasian" boy Walt. (As proof of this, consider how liked Sawyer is despite being a murderer and killer of innocent tree frogs(lol!))Getting back off-topic: however you boil it down, Season two of Lost was little more than the tropical adventures of Jack, Kate, Sawyer and Locke with a little Charlie mixed-in. Considering that "Jack" was supposed to die in the Series pilot, Michael Fox proverbially hit the lotto. Eh?

Melikon I could see how you might think this, based upon the American media's bias towards publicizing murdered/missing white women/girls( such as the Jon Bonet Ramsey case or Natalee Holloway) but I don't think it serves any purpose here. Whether it would change people's views of Michael or not, I don't think anybody would come out and broadcast that it would. lol! Even the KKK know how to be discreet these days. I agree with Tigerlily. Everything has to do with the murders of Ana and Libby. That also explains why there was so much hatered for Ana, because she killed Shannon(even though that was accidental and understandable when you think about how much the tailies suffered because of the others). Actually I have a ton of respect for Harold Perineau. He played the concerened father so well that it got annoying to most fans, which means he got through to us.
100%
Maybe they don't know of it, or actually have a life and are too busy to come on.
:mad: :mad: :mad:
I have a job and a life, yet I still surf the Fuse. What the $!#%?

If Micheal hadn't killed Ana and Libby what reason would there be to hate him? The way he choose to go about getting Walt back is the problem. If he had just freed Henry without murder, It wouldn't have bad. Although, he still would of had to betray people who were trying to help him get his son back and that is not good either, and is still enough reason for me to be upset with him. But, killing Ana and Libby is the reason I am angry with Micheal at this moment. So, I don't understand what you mean by this... becuase seeing the whole thing is the imporatant part. I wouldn't have called Michael a hero for getting Walt back if he had still turned in 4 members of his camp, murders or not. If he had found a way to do it without betraying/killing anyone, then he'd be a hero.

Yes, I am biasing it on future events. Back in Season 1 and early season 2, when he hadn't hurt anyone, I had nothing against the guy. It wasn't until he murdered two of his fellow castaways and betrayed four others, that I started to grudge him. I personally don't wish any of the characters death and I was (mostly) joking with my list. It was just interesting to think of all the things that wouldn't have happened had this one character not been around. Whether he died, or just was never on the plane. I think that was the point of this thread. To talk and think about everything that may have been different had he not survived. (That's how I took it anyway, but obviously, i didn't start the thread)

Tigerlilly, that is indeed exactly why I started this thread. To think about how the deaths of Ana and Libby might have not happened, or have gone differently, if there were a different death by a tiny change in the on-screen happenings (by Michael not being revived by CPR, which by the way is very rare in real life without electric shock, but then Rose and Charlie would be dead as well.)
A lot of other threads have already speculated on what other different ways Michael could have used to get Walt back, and this was one aspect of the plot -- while hypothetical -- that I hadn't seen yet and was thinking about. Gawd, I had no intention of bringing race into it at all and I'm so sorry that happened.:undecide:

Tigerlilly, that is indeed exactly why I started this thread. To think about how the deaths of Ana and Libby might have not happened, or have gone differently, if there were a different death by a tiny change in the on-screen happenings (by Michael not being revived by CPR, which by the way is very rare in real life without electric shock, but then Rose and Charlie would be dead as well.)
A lot of other threads have already speculated on what other different ways Michael could have used to get Walt back, and this was one aspect of the plot -- while hypothetical -- that I hadn't seen yet and was thinking about. Gawd, I had no intention of bringing race into it at all and I'm so sorry that happened.:undecide:
What if Jack had died in the series premiere as he was supposed to? What if Sawyer had died from his gunshot wound in the season one finale? What if Ethan Rom had succeeded in hanging Charlie till dead? Now there are a few hypothetical scenarios I think would lead to some very interesting plot changes. Expanded roles for Sayid, Eko, Jin and Sun being first and foremost. Also think of the possible changes in Kate's character, with no Jack or Sawyer to dilly-dally with. I think that would've forced her to become a more tougher person, more like Ana-Lucia perhaps. Of course Hollywood would never allow that to happen, so it's a moot point.
Based on Harold's busy schedule, I doubt whether or not we see Michael and Walt at all this season so for all intents and purposes they're dead, screen time wise anyways. I guess you'll have to be content with that.

What if Jack had died in the series premiere as he was supposed to? What if Sawyer had died from his gunshot wound in the season one finale? What if Ethan Rom had succeeded in hanging Charlie till dead? Now there are a few hypothetical scenarios I think would lead to some very interesting plot changes. Expanded roles for Sayid, Eko, Jin and Sun being first and foremost. Also think of the possible changes in Kate's character, with no Jack or Sawyer to dilly-dally with. I think that would've forced her to become a more tougher person, more like Ana-Lucia perhaps. Of course Hollywood would never allow that to happen, so it's a moot point.
Based on Harold's busy schedule, I doubt whether or not we see Michael and Walt at all this season so for all intents and purposes they're dead, screen time wise anyways. I guess you'll have to be content with that.
All good questions! I think from the "making of lost" extras on S1 DVD set, they said Kate was supposed to emerge as the leader after Jack was to have died in the pilot, and Yunjin read for the part.
And what if Billy Buckner hadn't let that grounder go between his feet in the '86 World Series? Then Sawyer wouldn't have made the connection between Christian and Jack, and thus we would have lost out on a great scene. :biggrin:

Consider this:
Michael, an African-American, is hated by most fans of the show for killing Libby and Ana-Lucia.....more Libby.
Eko, an African, has been practically a non-factor since coming from the other side of the island.(What was with the building the Church nonsense anyways?)
Sayid, an Iraqi, was a non-factor from the moment Shannon died up until the season-finale.
Jin, a South Korean, doesn't speak a lick of English and was absent from the moment he returned to Sun.
Sun, a South Korean, was also irrelevant the entire season, with the exception of getting man-handled by Charlie.
Rose, an African-American, was seen what ~2-3 times this entire season?
Ana-Lucia, a Hispanic-American, was killed off. (Due in part to most Lost fans disliking her)
Walt, an African-Australian...one minute of screen time the entire season.
Hurley, a Hispanic-American, had a good amount of screentime this season yet, ethnically speaking, Orville Redenbacher is more Hispanic than Hurley.

All of this combined has to be more than "fraking" coincidence. Makes one think whether or not one or more of the writers/creators of Lost are possibly "Closet" racists. (I might get in trouble with the Fuselage Overseers about this, but I felt it needed to be said.)

I don't really see it that way. They just aren't as important to the story as Jack,Kate,Sawyer etc. If they were much more important to the story, then I am sure they would get more screentime.

I am however upset that Sayid doesn't have enough screentime. I think he is much more important than made to be.

:mad: :mad: :mad:
I have a job and a life, yet I still surf the Fuse. What the $!#%?

I'm sorry if I angred or offeneded you by that. That's not what I ment at all. I know people around here are not no life losers, or anything. I am not that person either. I was just saying some people may consider other things more important. That's all. It wasn't ment to be a bust on any person here. I guess to say you 'have no life', is something people say all the time where I'm from, it's just a joke. I guess I shouldn't have applied it here, where not everyone would get it. I apologize if you were offended.

haha, I had to laugh when I saw this. I'm in the process of coming up with a list that blames every bad thing that's ever happened on the island on Micheal. So far I've got anything from the obvious Ana and Libby to Charlie being reintroduced to the drugs.... I'm still woking on Boone... ;)

Boone - that's easy.
If Michael hadn't gone so hog wild to drive a wedge between Locke's friendship with Walt, maybe Locke would've been spending more time with Walt, and less time in weird cahoots with Boone out there, which was what eventually led to Boone's demise.
100%
Good lord, I can't believe this has turned into a race debate. PUHLEEZE.

It so reminds me of this time I was riding a city bus about 15 years ago. This total stranger tried to corner me on the bus, and started harrassing me. Saying the most disgusting comments you could ever hear... They were the kind of comments one should be hesitant to say to a hooker you're paying very well. I mean just demeaning and awful. When I got away from him and told him to back off and leave me alone...
He started shouting how I was racist, and that's why I wasn't interested in him.
LOL. :rolleyes: (there needs to be a crazy googly eyes rolling smiley on this forum - haha)
Obviously it wasn't that he was a different race than me that I wanted away from that perv. It was his behaviour that was the problem.

And whatever reasons there are to hate Michael, he doesn't need any help from racists.
The man has been unstable and narcissistic from the get-go. His general behaviour and treatment of his son (like Walt's an object to possess) has been disgusting from day one, and only went downhill from there.

Now as to whether the writers of the show deliberately wrote him that way because they wanted to paint a black character as bad and dislikable... that's totally ridiculous.

Rose, who I happened to notice is black, is one of the most likable, empathetic, and kind characters on the show, and she hasn't been shown to have done anything horrible.
Eko, despite his dark past, is a pretty likable character. And they gave him a lot of air time for a newly introduced character.

Now as for Rose & Eko not getting as much air time as say, Kate or Sawyer... Well, Kate & Sawyer are not the most wholesome characters on the show. If those characters were black, then I guess you would complain that they behaved badly because the writers wanted black people to look bad. :rolleyes:

There's no winning when you play the race card, because you're not playing with the full deck.

That said, I think black americans are horribly under-represented on prime time network television.
But then all network television show makers are slaves to ratings.
And who decides the ratings? The viewers.

So if you want to cure the race issues on television, you're going to have to start in your community, to be a part of the solution. Because shouting accusations at a television show is being part of the problem.

I'm sorry if I angred or offeneded you by that. That's not what I ment at all. I know people around here are not no life losers, or anything. I am not that person either. I was just saying some people may consider other things more important. That's all. It wasn't ment to be a bust on any person here. I guess to say you 'have no life', is something people say all the time where I'm from, it's just a joke. I guess I shouldn't have applied it here, where not everyone would get it. I apologize if you were offended.
It's allright Tigerlilly, I was probably overreacting anyways.;)
OK i agree that Michael was wrong and a bad guy for shooting Ana and Libby. I can also understand how people disliked Ana for shooting Shannon. What I don't understand is why so many fans have forgiven Locke for getting Boone killed. If you go to the Locke boards it's clear and overwhelming that Lost fans love the man more than ever. I'm a newbie to Lost. I watched all the episodes in both seasons over the past two weeks, so most of it is clear in my mind still. Locke had visions/premonitions of a bloody Boone, yet he still let him go up into the plane and get killed. Add to that, his comment later on about Boone being a necessary sacrifice or some such. I was hoping Jack would beat Locke up like he did Ethan Rom. Why is it that Locke gets a pardon but Michael and Ana don't?

First and Foremost, About Michael:
I thought about this a lot towards the end of season two, but never thought to post it. I often think of whether the writers actually knew about the S2 Finale while writing the S1 finale. I mean, did they know the quest for getting Walt back would spiral out of control and leave JKS kidnapped? It's crazy when you think about it. A lot of it would have never happened: seeing the computer screen with someone communicating with Michael on it, Sawyer, Locke, and Jack meeting the others in the jungle, the killing off of two of their characters, meeting other others in GENERAL at their camp. I'd really like to know more about how they plan things out and how much they actually know ahead of time.

O/T:
I, too, cannot believe I am reading this. Simply because of the way you have presented yourself Melikon. I do not mean for this to become any sort of personal attack on your opinions or feelings about the makings of this television show, but I feel as though you need to hear this.

It's a TV show. If you haven't noticed, everything about this series has had some sort of meaning behind it. To even think that the reason for the deaths or screen-time of these characters is based upon their race or nationality would be perposterous. Not to mention that the reasoning behind the writers' ideas is to increase the shock-value of the show to appeal more to their audience.

And do you honestly think that a TV show such as this, with as much popularity and variety of fans as it has, could even get away with basing their writing techniques and plot formulations off of their secret racial hatred? I certainly don't think so. Look at Survivor. Did you hear about their recent idea to change the format of their latest season?.. so that the players would be divided up into 'tribes' based on their race? They claimed it would be a demonstration for the players as to how their ancestors lived. I might also mention that post-debut of the first episode, they cancelled their show.

I understand that this is a place for opinion, but I think we should start thinking more rationally (although anything can happen on Lost) when saying the things we say. Instead of basing it off of social folklores about the negation of minorities, think about how serious this series actually is. I doubt that a turn down "race street" would keep this show going in the right direction.

There is no reason to keep themselves from expanding the way they tell their story. However much screen-time a character receives is varied upon the planned final outcome, something we have no knowledge of, or even know if it's actually planned aside from TPTB's comments that they have an ending in mind. Clearly, if people had more connections on/to the island, they would receive more flashbacks or centric episodes. PLUS, this is only season three. I believe we're all quite sure that its not going to end in the S3 finale, so theres still plenty of time to tell people's stories.

O/T:
I, too, cannot believe I am reading this. Simply because of the way you have presented yourself Melikon. I do not mean for this to become any sort of personal attack on your opinions or feelings about the makings of this television show, but I feel as though you need to hear this.

It's a TV show. If you haven't noticed, everything about this series has had some sort of meaning behind it. To even think that the reason for the deaths or screen-time of these characters is based upon their race or nationality would be perposterous. Not to mention that the reasoning behind the writers' ideas is to increase the shock-value of the show to appeal more to their audience.

And do you honestly think that a TV show such as this, with as much popularity and variety of fans as it has, could even get away with basing their writing techniques and plot formulations off of their secret racial hatred? I certainly don't think so. Look at Survivor. Did you hear about their recent idea to change the format of their latest season?.. so that the players would be divided up into 'tribes' based on their race? They claimed it would be a demonstration for the players as to how their ancestors lived. I might also mention that post-debut of the first episode, they cancelled their show.

I understand that this is a place for opinion, but I think we should start thinking more rationally (although anything can happen on Lost) when saying the things we say. Instead of basing it off of social folklores about the negation of minorities, think about how serious this series actually is. I doubt that a turn down "race street" would keep this show going in the right direction.

There is no reason to keep themselves from expanding the way they tell their story. However much screen-time a character receives is varied upon the planned final outcome, something we have no knowledge of, or even know if it's actually planned aside from TPTB's comments that they have an ending in mind. Clearly, if people had more connections on/to the island, they would receive more flashbacks or centric episodes. PLUS, this is only season three. I believe we're all quite sure that its not going to end in the S3 finale, so theres still plenty of time to tell people's stories.

Most shows undergo the same scrutiny. It may have not been discussed previously on the Fuse, but that doesn't mean that it's no being discussed by fans through other outlets (i.e. the water cooler, dinner conversation) I remember discussions of such shows as Star Trek TNG(i.e. why was it that the two non-caucasian characters (African-American) were blind and wore 10 pounds of prosthetic makeup on his forehead?) Or, the X-Files(no African-Americans in the FBI?) I admit I went overboard in the first posting, and I apologize to Working Mom, but I still believe the point I was trying to make is valid one. Why is it that Ana-Lucia and Michael are hated for murdering/killing their fellow losties yet Locke, who although he didn't shoot Boone dead is just as guilty for getting him killed, is seemingly forgiven and loved more than ever by fans? Sawyer, I guess is more of a poor example since nobody knew the shrimp guy or cared about the fate of the Federal Marshall.
I'm not saying that the creators of Lost are guilty of racially profiling their characters or whatever, I'm just bringing up the odd coincidences that I've noticed while watching the series enfold. Considering how deeply people delve into the mythological aspects of Lost(ad nauseum), I see no problem with people speculating on the social aspects as well. Open-mindedness has to be a requirement if you want to interact on the Fuse, IMO.

Most shows undergo the same scrutiny. It may have not been discussed previously on the Fuse, but that doesn't mean that it's no being discussed by fans through other outlets (i.e. the water cooler, dinner conversation) I remember discussions of such shows as Star Trek TNG(i.e. why was it that the two non-caucasian characters (African-American) were blind and wore 10 pounds of prosthetic makeup on his forehead?) Or, the X-Files(no African-Americans in the FBI?) I admit I went overboard in the first posting, and I apologize to Working Mom, but I still believe the point I was trying to make is valid one. Why is it that Ana-Lucia and Michael are hated for murdering/killing their fellow losties yet Locke, who although he didn't shoot Boone dead is just as guilty for getting him killed, is seemingly forgiven and loved more than ever by fans? Sawyer, I guess is more of a poor example since nobody knew the shrimp guy or cared about the fate of the Federal Marshall.
I'm not saying that the creators of Lost are guilty of racially profiling their characters or whatever, I'm just bringing up the odd coincidences that I've noticed while watching the series enfold. Considering how deeply people delve into the mythological aspects of Lost(ad nauseum), I see no problem with people speculating on the social aspects as well. Open-mindedness has to be a requirement if you want to interact on the Fuse, IMO.
Are you kidding? I loved Jordy on TNG! :wedge: Did you notice his blindness gave him special powers above the rest? Did you notice that he was the actor who played Kunte Kinte on Roots, the most watched mini-series of all time? Hmmm??

As for Locke, maybe the Locke devotees have forgiven him, but Jack hasn't, Shannon hadn't (oops, she's dead), and I haven't, and many other people probably still hold it against him. Although, it's more of a grey area; I think the odds are good that even if Locke's legs hadn't been impaired, Boone would still have gone up in the plane. It's just not the same as shooting someone in the chest. Locke, as you've noticed, has this way of arranging for others to go into the deathtrap before him -- like Kate in the hatch. But that's OT like the rest of this thread.

PS Ana Lucia was not held in contempt by the fans for killing Goodwin or the Other woman who attacked her, and Eko was not held in contempt by anyone except his own conscience for killing the two Others that attacked him. Melikon, I really believe it's the context of the act of killing, and not the skin color of the perpetrator, that the writers are focusing on and setting up to be seen as good, bad, or in between. I'm not saying that social aspects should not be discussed; I do disagree with your views and I hope it hasn't been too disrespectful per the rules of this forum.

I'm surprised by a lot of things in this thread. First of all, I'm surprised so many people hate Michael. I mean, sure, what he did wasn't the best way of going about it, but Michael had a drive to get his son back. He finally reconnected with his son, and then he was taken out of his arms. His son, blood related. The people on the island? He hardly knows any of them. They've known each other for 2 months, part of which Michael was gone. He didn't even know Ana and Libby. He didn't have much interaction with Kate, and I'm sure he feels guilt for killing them and giving up Jack, Sawyer and Kate. But.. it's his son. I'm not a parent, but would any parents on here do anything to save their children? I guess that's just the way I see it.

As for hating characters and the race issue: As someone mentioned, Ana only signed up for a year so she was already going to be killed no matter what. And I hated her because she was one of those "tough chicks", which I just find to be annoying.

As for liking characters that are white, such as Jack, Kate, and Sawyer... I don't know about other people here, but I think Kate is one of the most annoying characters on the show. I favor plenty of other characters on the show. Not to mention, Jin/Sun's relationship is one of the most heartfelt and engaging ones on the show.

As for everyone loving Locke even moreso now.. Again, I'm SURPRISED at this. Did anyone else think Locke was increasingly annoying in S2? He lost his faith and was negative about everything he used to believe in. The character he became was nothing like the one in S1.

I guess my basic point is that although some roles are smaller than others, that doesn't mean the writers are being biased. Hell, Claire hardly gets screen time and no one complains. The characters' importance eventually is seen when you least expect it. I think we're actually relying on Sayid, Sun, Jin, and Hurley to save Jack, Kate and Sawyer. Then they will be heroes. The minorities. So, in the end, I figure everyone will have played their part, no?

I'm surprised by a lot of things in this thread. First of all, I'm surprised so many people hate Michael. I mean, sure, what he did wasn't the best way of going about it, but Michael had a drive to get his son back. He finally reconnected with his son, and then he was taken out of his arms. His son, blood related. The people on the island? He hardly knows any of them. They've known each other for 2 months, part of which Michael was gone. He didn't even know Ana and Libby. He didn't have much interaction with Kate, and I'm sure he feels guilt for killing them and giving up Jack, Sawyer and Kate. But.. it's his son. I'm not a parent, but would any parents on here do anything to save their children? I guess that's just the way I see it.
Thank you Amaterasu. My point exactly. This thread should have been started in the I'm not into you section. Guess the Fuse Overseers slipped up on this one.
As for Claire, I believe she starred in some movie that was released during the shooting of season two...some horror movie. So that would explain her big absence this past season. I also agree with you that Lost is still a work in progress, so I can only hope that some of the more minor characters get to eventually share in the limelight.

well, you can have a thread anywhere. If you don't want to hear the other side, you stick it in the Not that into you or All good sections. If you want a full discussion, you put it in the general section. Just becuase it's negative towards Michael doesn't mean it has to be in the Not That Into section. Plus, I don't believe this thread was made to be a Michael bash. It's just to talk about, what if he hadn't survived, none of that would have happened and how different the show would be

Anyways, I can't agree with what you said Amaterasu. Yes it's honorable that he got his son back, but he killed two people and betrayed four others. Not to mention the hurt he caused the whole camp at losing six memebers, one of which is a doctor, four very capable of helping in defense, one a very compassionate woman and one the loveable comic relief. (Well, Hurley's on his way back, but still....). He didn't just hurt 5 or 6 people here, he hurt 40 something. And I will never agree that there was no other way! That's my problem here. He didn't need to kill Ana or Libby. I think that if he had told the others from the camp the truth, they would have understood. Jack told him he wanted to help get Walt back and Michael turns around and stabs him in the back. That's down-right wrong! I'm glad he loves his son so much and that part is really sweet, but he could have done it differently. It doesn't even matter if you've never met someone before in your life... they are still a person and it's not any one person's right to just throw away their life like that. So, honorable as saving his son was, he went about it WAY wrong. That's the issue here.

As for Locke. I say again, these boards do not represent the majority at alll. There are many people who are still sore over that. Also I think the fact that he didn't shoot them has a lot to do with it. Boone's fall was an accident. Locke may have sent him up there, but how would he know what was going to happen. He did try to get Boone to come out. It wasn't really Locke's fault, unless you consider that he lied to Jack about it, but you better believe there are many who are sore about that! Myself included.
I think with Ana, Shannon's death was an accident as well, but many people already didn't like her for her hard-core ways. Shannon was kind of a last straw type of thing. While Locke's always been a popular character for his mysterious manor and so I guess people just forgave him b/c they didn't want to hate him.

And watermelonpunch, Of course! Thank you, that one's been driving me nuts :biggrin:

Anyways, I can't agree with what you said Amaterasu. Yes it's honorable that he got his son back, but he killed two people and betrayed four others. Not to mention the hurt he caused the whole camp at losing six memebers, one of which is a doctor, four very capable of helping in defense, one a very compassionate woman and one the loveable comic relief. (Well, Hurley's on his way back, but still....). He didn't just hurt 5 or 6 people here, he hurt 40 something. And I will never agree that there was no other way! That's my problem here. He didn't need to kill Ana or Libby. I think that if he had told the others from the camp the truth, they would have understood. Jack told him he wanted to help get Walt back and Michael turns around and stabs him in the back. That's down-right wrong! I'm glad he loves his son so much and that part is really sweet, but he could have done it differently. It doesn't even matter if you've never met someone before in your life... they are still a person and it's not any one person's right to just throw away their life like that. So, honorable as saving his son was, he went about it WAY wrong. That's the issue here.


I agree, that there a better ways. I don't encourage people to kill others, heh. But I'm thinking of the state of mind Michael must be in. I don't think he's perfectly sane right now.. he's panicked, tired, who knows if he's been sleeping, they dangled Walt in front of him, which probably sent him over the edge. Considering he's not quite right in the head, I just think he's acting very rashly and not thinking about his actions.

Also, maybe Michael wanted to do exactly what the Others told him to do, to get back Walt. If he tries to revolt against them or get his friends to help, there's a good chance he might not get Walt back. Do you think he wants to take that risk? I think that he feels that the only way he's guaranteed his son back is if he does exactly as they say. But, before the finale I figured that the Others wouldn't keep their word; I was wrong.

I'm not trying to say what Michael did was right, or that it was the only way.. just that in his state of mind I understand why he did it this way.

Locke may have sent him up there, but how would he know what was going to happen
As Burnt Sienna pointed out, Locke did have premonitions/dreams of seeing a blood covered Boone. Considering how tuned he is into the island and its powers(It did give him the ability to walk again and also his connection with smokie) he definitely should have figured out that Boone climbing up into a precariously placed airplane would bring about his premonitions.

Tigerlily, I was typing a response just like yours when the computer ate it -- saying that there were other ways Michael could have gotten help for getting Walt back besides cold-blooded murder. The Others didn't even overtly tell him to!

I agree, that there a better ways. I don't encourage people to kill others, heh. But I'm thinking of the state of mind Michael must be in. I don't think he's perfectly sane right now.. he's panicked, tired, who knows if he's been sleeping, they dangled Walt in front of him, which probably sent him over the edge. Considering he's not quite right in the head, I just think he's acting very rashly and not thinking about his actions.

Also, maybe Michael wanted to do exactly what the Others told him to do, to get back Walt. If he tries to revolt against them or get his friends to help, there's a good chance he might not get Walt back. Do you think he wants to take that risk? I think that he feels that the only way he's guaranteed his son back is if he does exactly as they say. But, before the finale I figured that the Others wouldn't keep their word; I was wrong.

I'm not trying to say what Michael did was right, or that it was the only way.. just that in his state of mind I understand why he did it this way.

The situation reminds me of a Johnny Depp movie Nick of Time:

(from IMDB) Gene Watson (Johnny Depp) is an ordinary public accountant returning home from his ex-wife's funeral and is met by Mr Smith (Christopher Walken) and Ms. Jones (Roma Maffia) who kidnap his daughter (Courtney Chase) and give him a gun, six bullets, a name-tag that will give him access to anywhere in a specific hotel, and the itinerary of Governor Grant (Marsha Mason) and is informed that he must kill the Governor in 1 hour and 15 minutes or his daughter will die. The rest of the movie follows Mr. Watson as he desperately attempts to warn the Governor without the knowledge of the two and finds out that the conspiracy against her reaches all the way to those she trusts most.

Even there, the character tries to avoid doing the killing even while the villains are overtly threatening to kill his daughter, not just to keep her. Of course it would push anyone over the edge, but this character realized that there were other tactics.

As Burnt Sienna pointed out, Locke did have premonitions/dreams of seeing a blood covered Boone. Considering how tuned he is into the island(It did give him the ability to walk again and also his connection with smokie) he definitely should have figured out that Boone climbing up into a precariously placed airplane would bring about his premonitions.

Yeah, Locke conveniently forgot to mention to Boone that while he was saying "Theresa falls up the stairs" in Locke's dream, he was covered in blood. If you were Boone, wouldn't you be interested in that detail? Just like Locke told Eko about his dream where Eko was in it climbing the cliff -- but didn't mention he saw him fall off the cliff. :topicoff: :topicoff: See, Melikon, not everybody gives Locke carte blanche.:undecide:

In watching Adrift again, it occurred to me that a lot of tragedy could have been avoided if Sawyer had been unsuccessful in reviving Michael by CPR while they were on the destroyed raft.
Michael's character had so little value in the storytelling of Season 2 -- aside from, of course, the big bang when he killed Ana and Libby -- that he would not have been missed. And then we wouldn't have the visceral reaction to "WAAAAAALT!" and "I'm going to get my boy back!" which were probably 50% of his lines all season.




Haha so true. He should've died in that scene.

Thank you Amaterasu. My point exactly. This thread should have been started in the I'm not into you section. Guess the Fuse Overseers slipped up on this one.
um excuse me? this is not a bash Michael thread. this is a "what if" thread. the negativity was brought here when you pulled the racial card. and it stops now. seriously if you wanted to accuse the writers of being racist you should know your facts a bit more. are you aware that there were/still are quite a few ethnic groups represented on the writers staff? how can you accuse them of being unsympathetic to their OWN race? dont bother to answer. it is moot.

you all may continue to explore the "what if" of this thread..but the next person that invokes the race thing will be warned and the thread closed. end of story.

The Gods have spoken. OK, if Michael had died on the raft, obviously Ana-Lucia would have been killed off by a different means, Libby would still be alive, Hurley would still be blissfully deceived(don't trust Libby's motives), Jack Kate and Sawyer wouldn't be guests of the Others(?), Fenry Gale would be well into the Brothers Karamazov by now and Walt...? Still amongst the Others, I suppose, fulfilling whatever nefarious purpose the Others were up to.

P.S.: I never "accused" the writers of being anything.

Halfrek, have you read all the posts in this thread?? "Show me the "Love""(Jerry Maguire reference) for Micheal here. lol!! What if?....Thread might as well be titled What If Michael Dawson Had Never Been Born?

P.S.: I never "accused" the writers of being anything.
um so you didnt call them "closet racists" b/c yeah i have the RP on that that clearly states that. so yeah, i can see that you didnt call them a thing.:rolleyes: not cool. also mocking the post of a UMOD or any other mod is not cool either and a warnable offense.

Halfrek, have you read all the posts in this thread?? "Show me the "Love""(Jerry Maguire reference) for Micheal here. lol!! What if?....Thread might as well be titled What If Michael Dawson Had Never Been Born? i did read most of them and i was addressing melikon. i see that several people are Michael fans. :)

I wonder what Sawyer's reaction would have been like if Michael had died. Death seems to hit him somewhat hard. He could have been all changed... well, probably not :) I wonder if the two sides would have even met. Sawyer would probably be stubborn and rebelous and get himself killed somehow. ;) It was Michael's reason and disire to get out at all costs that lead to the 'we were on the plane too conversation'... since Jin couldn't of helped out too much... I wonder how different it would be.

I know what you ment, Amaterasu and I agree that his drive and whatnot is sweet. But even his state of mind, just doesn't excuse what he did. At least in my opinion. It makes it a little more understandable... but doesn't in any way make things better. He still pretty much hurt the whole camp. There's just so many other ways he could have done it. And I think he thought about it too. He had that story very well rehearshed... so why couldn't he have thought about a better way as well. Plus, all they said was to let 'henry' go and bring the four to them. Tricking them into was not necisarly orders. I just can't let it go, no matter what was going on in his head.

I know what you ment, Amaterasu and I agree that his drive and whatnot is sweet. But even his state of mind, just doesn't excuse what he did. At least in my opinion. It makes it a little more understandable... but doesn't in any way make things better. He still pretty much hurt the whole camp. There's just so many other ways he could have done it. And I think he thought about it too. He had that story very well rehearshed... so why couldn't he have thought about a better way as well. Plus, all they said was to let 'henry' go and bring the four to them. Tricking them into was not necisarly orders. I just can't let it go, no matter what was going on in his head.


I suppose it's all just opinion based. I recently re-watched those episodes and kept saying "No Michael you jerk, don't do it!", so I think it's pretty crappy too.. and I noticed the Others never said anything about killing anybody.. I guess since Ana was in the way, and Jack and the others would probably never let Michael just free Henry without an argument, I don't know. I'll just stick to that he wasn't thinking.

As for the topic at hand, if Michael died, I'm not so sure the rest of the camp would go looking for Walt, as someone mentioned they might. They didn't seem too enthusiastic on going after him even when Michael was there. It was only when Henry was caught that they were really focused on getting back at the Others. I don't know, but thinking more about it I think everyone is a bit selfish on this island. Dog-eat-dog world, after all.

Well, look at everything that happened when the news arrived. Shannon had just been killed and these new people introduced. I think that they would go after Walt. Jack went up to him and said 'no one's forgotten about Walt'. I think though, they were just taking a minute to mourn Shannon and all that, which is understandable. Then, Michael ran off and they had the confrontation with Mr. Friendly. Maybe after that they didn't want to risk other lives. I don't know. I don't think they would have just forgotten about Walt though... although maybe becuase they did only find Claire becuase they were looking for a stupid dog (That makes me so angry! :mad: ... but that's another thread)