I know some people are upset that Charlie shot Ethan but think about it for a minute..

What could they have done to thim?

Set Sayid on him?

Remember Sayid tortured Nadia and Sawyer and neither one of them talked and they are just mere mortals like us. What makes anyone think he could have made 'Ethan' talk? (making a lot of assumptions about Ethan I admit.)

I think the statements of Charlie and Claire are interesting. Both of them basically said "He wouldn't have told us anything." Yet both of them apparently don't remember the kidnapping or what Ethan did or details of what he was really like (if Charlie does he's not talking about it). I wonder if repressed memories of the events are just below the surface and they do 'really' know that Ethan would not have talked but they are not ready to face up to those memories consciencely yet.

Just a thought..

Although I wish Ethan had said as he was dying...'We need her for.....whatever!"

However the way this show is written it probably wouldn't have helped us out anyway!

Ethan wouldn't have talked. Why would he? What's in it for him? Nothing.*


I know. That's my point and but I keep seeing all these posts about how stupid Charlie was for shooting him. I don't think it was the smartest thing to do but I just don't see how keeping Ethan alive would have helped.

Ethan wouldn't have talked, and if he had dropped a cryptic line, some people would only be further abuzz about how nothing happens except more mysteries. Ethan's only goal was to get Claire back, and kill anyone else in his way... there was no reason for him to talk, and considering that it took several guns pointed his way before he hesitated, I don't think Sayid would have been able to get much out of him either.

Ethan wouldn't have talked, .... Ethan's only goal was to get Claire back, and kill anyone else in his way... there was no reason for him to talk, and considering that it took several guns pointed his way before he hesitated, I don't think Sayid would have been able to get much out of him either.


And if he did talk, what would you do with him after ? Build a flimsy bamboo jail and put 4 armed guards on him 24-7 ? Charlie shot too soon, but I would rather see someone blast him in the heat of the moment than for everyone to wait two days, THEN realize they had a tiger by the tail, THEN tie him to a tree and do the firing squad thing. And if Ethan realized they had to shoot him, why would he talk ?

They could've shot him after he didn't talk, the point was they wanted him alive.......the people that went to do the job. Charlie's insecurities caused an error in judgement. He wanted to be Claire's "hero". Ethan may or may not have talked, but you have to try. A few days without food and water on top of a daily beating may change his mind.* What if Locke was right when he was talking to Jack? What if there's more out there waiting?* What if they are being set up? I guess we'll have to find out now.

Sayid took it easy on his girlfriend and didn't finish with Sawyer. I'd put my money on Sayid regarding his ability to "convince" people to talk

Sayid took it easy on his girlfriend and didn't finish with Sawyer. I'd put my money on Sayid regarding his ability to "convince" people to talk


Except Sayid is not going to torture anyone again. Ever.

No one has commented on what I brought up about Charlie and Claire both agreeing that Ethan probably would not have talked. I may be represesd memories surfacing for just a second but since they seem to know Ethan better than any of the other survivors (and I admit we don't know how well they knew him) I'm going with their assesement for right now.

Except Sayid is not going to torture anyone again. Ever.

No one has commented on what I brought up about Charlie and Claire both agreeing that Ethan probably would not have talked.* I may be represesd memories surfacing for just a second but since they seem to know Ethan better than any of the other survivors (and I admit we don't know how well they knew him) I'm going with their assesement for right now.



I don't recall Claire saying that, but I have to discount Charlie's comment. He knew the other 5 wanted him alive and were probably a little disappointed with him. MY belief is he did that because he felt small and insignificant and he couldn't keep his word to Claire otherwise.(his storyline almost proves that)

And if he did talk, what would you do with him after ? Build a flimsy bamboo jail and put 4 armed guards on him 24-7 ? Charlie shot too soon, but I would rather see someone blast him in the heat of the moment than for everyone to wait two days, THEN realize they had a tiger by the tail, THEN tie him to a tree and do the firing squad thing. And if Ethan realized they had to shoot him, why would he talk ?


Here's what I said about that a few hours ago in a thread asking about Charlie's justification:

"I'd agree with the idea that it may have been justifiable, but it was not the intelligent thing to do at that moment. In the end, it would have almost been required though, because they quite simply have no way to safely contain someone like Ethan. There would always have been the risk that he'd get loose, and then what? I'm personally glad Charlie saved us from seeing Jack agonize about having to kill Ethan later.

Have they crossed a line for "civility?" Perhaps, but I would argue no. In civilization, there are other alternatives for dealing with crazy murdering socio/psychopaths like Ethan. On the island, there is no such system, unless Michael would miraculously devise a system of concrete and steel bars to house him (it?) in a matter of hours. And in the meantime, he'd need to be bound (with?), guarded non-stop by at least 3 people, fed, etc.... and in the end, he'd probably still try something, perhaps killing one of the others (or more) before being killed himself anyway, or worse, escaping.

IMHO, Ethan was never leaving that grove. There's just no way he'd have gone quietly, and no way to control him. Charlie also had his own psychological justifications for killing Ethan, as well. So, in the end, Charlie himself may have been justified, but it was not the wisest thing to do in that instant, regardless of its eventual necessity down the line."

I honestly thought for a sec that maybe Charlie didn't want Ethan to talk. *I am not sure if Charlie would be "aware" *of this desire to not have him talk, but I thought perhaps if Ethan had done something to Charlie, I don't know, given him the disease or whatever Danielle talked about, maybe it was a survival instinct that Charlie felt Ethan couldn't talk. *I am not too sure of this theory though, for various reasons, mainly charlie and claire seem genuine in their statements in general, ie. *the reasons for killing Ethan and the amnesia respectively.

I just wonder if they both have something in them that neither is aware about, and this "thing" is controlling (influencing?)some of their actions, while perhaps not their complete minds. *

B

I don't believe Ethan would have talked, but you never know. There might have been someone that could have coaxed him to say SOMETHING that would have answered a question or two about the island or Charlie/Claire. It was a no win situation I think for the survivors. Had Charlie not killed Ethan, they would have been in danger because Ethan, atleast in my eyes appeared to be non-human. At the same time, because Charlie offed Ethan, the castaways are still in the same boat in knowing absolutely nothing about why Ethan wanted Claire/tried to kill Charlie and about these so called others.

I honestly thought for a sec that maybe Charlie didn't want Ethan to talk. *I am not sure if Charlie would be "aware" *of this desire to not have him talk, but I thought perhaps if Ethan had done something to Charlie, I don't know, given him the disease or whatever Danielle talked about, maybe it was a survival instinct that Charlie felt Ethan couldn't talk. *I am not too sure of this theory though, for various reasons, mainly charlie and claire seem genuine in their statements in general, ie. *the reasons for killing Ethan and the amnesia respectively.

I just wonder if they both have something in them that neither is aware about, and this "thing" is controlling (influencing?)some of their actions, while perhaps not their complete minds. *

B


I have wondered if there wasn't something else going on as well. Their memory is wiped and replaced with..what? And why hasn't Charlie talked any more about the 'they' that wanted Claire (that was an akward sentence! :laugh:) The last he spoke of it he called Ethan that 'freak who tried to kill me'. No mention of any 'they'. ??? ???

I think Charlie and Claire know a whole lot, but they don't realize it right now. Ethan demanded that Charlie bring Claire to him. Why not just take her? Or ask someone else to bring her? He told Charlie as if he thought Charlie would obey him. The threats seemed like an afterthought, as if he thought Charlie would simply obey but had to make threats when Charlie didn't react expectedly. IMHO, Charlie and Claire are now part of "they" without knowing it.

As far as Sayid goes, I would be like Beavis and Butthead in front of him.
Sayid after shoving things under my fingernails: "Tell me what I want to know!"
Me: "Uh......I love you."
Sayid while holding a knife to my throat: "TELL ME!!!"
Me: "Uh......I'll tell you everything if you'll take your shirt off."

I don't think he would've talked either. Ethan didn't seem like the type to start blubbering and spill his guts after a little of Sayid's treatments. I'm glad Charlie shot him because I didn't think there'd be any way to contain him short of cutting off his legs. He was one of the scariest characters that I've seen on TV, right up there with the alien assasin Brian Cox on X Files.

I don't think he would have talked either. I probably wasn't afraid to die.

BUT I would have liked to get a little bit of info... ;)

Opps, posted a theory here by mistake, erased it...

I'm not sure I understand the question. As a viewer, I can only go by what is shown to me, in that regard Ethan was never questioned.

If I was writing the show, Charlie would not have killed Ethan. They would have interrogated him and he would have told them something(stuff Ethan believed was useless to them) but not who or what he is working for(assuming Ethan is not acting alone)

From a storytelling standpoint, it's irrelevant whether anyone thinks Ethan will talk. The characters must still make the effort to question him. Only then will they know.

I will remind people that Sayid is not the only one who can torture someone. I bet Sawyer would be happy to do it, for one.

Second, I will remind people that Sayid's torture of Sawyer WAS successful. Sawyer did talk in the end, that's what torturing for info is all about, making them talk.. That he told Kate he didn't have the inhalers and not Jack or Sayid doesn't change the fact that the torture worked.

I don't think the pyschic had the death of others (scott, hanging Charlie which could have resulted in death) in mind when he sent Claire on that plane. Yes, he wanted her to raise that baby, but he wouldn't have hired Ethan and told him to kill if push comes to shove and you can't protect her. To me, that just doesn't make any sense :-\


P.S- some may argue that we didn't see Ethan kill Scott or hang Charlie, but he did make death threats to Ethan and he did lift Charlie off the ground with just one arm. Not to mention his fight scene with Jack and that nothing was going to stop him (except maybe three-four guns in his face) from getting what he wanted.

Is this a serious question?

People are so concerned with making excuses for the writers they now have to convince themselves that it doesn't matter that Charlie stupidly shot Ethan, because Ethan wouldn't have talked?

Nonsense.

No-one knows whether Ethan would have talked or not, because the writers took that option away by killing him off before he was given the opportunity one way or another.

So the assumption shouldn't be that "Ethan wouldn't have talked". Instead it should be "the writers were never going to let Ethan talk."

Letting Ethan talk would have meant imparting some new information on to the viewers and obviously, after 15 episodes, the writers just aren't ready to do that yet. Probably because they haven't figured it out themselves or they don't have confidence in what they have figured out (so it's subject to change).

This reminds me when they ended the episode with the cliffhanger that Ethan was the guy who wasn't on the plane. People spent a week in such serious denial that the writers would offer such a lame cop-out that they tried to convince everyone that Ethan WAS not the guy who wasn't on the plane. Then in the next episode, of course, in the very first scene we learned that yeah, it really is that lame, Ethan is the guy who wasn't on the plane.

Now we have people in such serious denial over the latest writers cop-out of Charlie's stupidly killing Ethan, that they are trying to convince themselves that Ethan wouldn't have talked even had he survived, so Charlie's act of senseless murder was inconsequential.

Somebody must be passing around some powerful Kool-Aid.

I just watched and she didn't! :o I could have sworn she did...I guess I dreamed it!* They don't have an oops smilie.

whether ethan would have talked or not... that is no justification for taking a life.

Charlie has taken a life... how this effects him, ontop of everything else.. regardless of how 'evil' ethan is.... charlie is going to have some serious issues to deal with now.

Locke, Sawyer, Sayid, Kate and everyones hero Jack thought capturing the guy seemed like a good idea. But no, the recovering drug addict with a major persoanl grudge against Ethan says he wouldn't have talked, so we take his word on it. It couldn't just be Charlie trying to making excuses for what he did.................

Chuckie screwed up, but it's neither here nor there now.

Hopefully they start to set up some recon groups to start exploring more, especially the area Ethan snagged Claire/Chuck and hit Jin with the sling shot.

I don't think that Ethan would've talked even if they did give him to Sayid for 5 minutes.. He's just too evil. I wonder why he wanted Claire, though.

ethan is too dangerous for them to keep around. if he killed scott (it was scott right? sorry...bad me i know!)
then what makes you think he wouldnt have killed everybody or another person? i just think it would be way too risky to keep him around.

:) me!

Ever see that movie Man on Fire with Denzel Washington? Ever see the scene where he has the guy in the car and his hands are duct tapped to the steering wheel? If you haven't, I'll spare you the details and just tell you he (Denzel) had no intentions of letting the guy live after the torture weather he gave info or not.

Plus they could have said something innocently about the polar bear or the instant weather changes or other strange happenings and maybe Ethan comments on them. Something. Anything. Even just a crumb of info.

Chuckie is hiding something

Even if Ethan had talked, he might have told them intentionally lies. Convincing enough to look like the truth, but dangerous enough to get the survivors killed. Considering his situation, I can see him so doing that.

I think that might have been the more interesting scenario.

Tie him up like Locke did Boone, bury him up to his waist with his arms behind his back, break both his arms....just a few suggestions from a guy in Sales here. We are underestimating our "castaways" abilities and determination to find out what is going on. Ethan wasn't the same physically in that last meeting.

Here is a guy who as far as they know kidnapped a pregnant woman, tried to hang one survivor, looks like he did kill another survivor (although we don't know that for sure), comes back and threatens everybody's lives, and tries to get the pregnant woman again. Oh, yeah, and this is the guy who infiltrated their group...pretended to be one of them...gained their trust, and then moved in with his plans. And Jack et al. wanted to keep him around to see if he would talk?*

Every reason listed is exactly why you want him alive. Otherwise you have no idea who's out there? how many? what do they want? why are there friggin' polar bears here? Just a thought

Tie him up like Locke did Boone, bury him up to his waist with his arms behind his back, break both his arms....just a few suggestions from a guy in Sales here. We are underestimating our "castaways" abilities and determination to find out what is going on.

How humane.

It seems that the only ways the survivors could have dealt with Ethan are not very civilized. Charlie's method is not nice, but all alternatives are not particular nice either. Interesting, isn't it?

The castaways seem to leave civilization behind them. *insert eerie Lord of the Flies music here*

Sorry Para, first I would have asked Ethan very nicely to give me the information I wanted. I would've even said "Please"......then I would have buried and tortured him :lol2: ;)

He would not have talked.

How do I know this? Because the writers had nothing for him to say. Vincent had more speaking lines forthcoming. Ethan's script sheet was blanker than an Ethiopian menu. Thus he died.

Welcome to Hollywood.

But....if he had spoken, what might he have said?

1. My name is Ethan Rom, I am orderly from Mt. Hilawaya's maternity wing, this woman needs to be back in her room, the hospital is just over the hill.

2. My name is Ethan Rom. Millionaire, I own a mansion and a yacht.

3. My name is Ethan Rom, you might remember me from such films as "Suspect Zero", "The Grudge". or the hit Broadway musical "Planet of the Apes"....

4. My name is Ethan Rom, and for the last time, get off my property!

5. My name is Ethan Rom, but my friends call me "psychotic freakazoid"...well, they 'did' anyhow.

My name is Ethan and I have good news and bad news. First the badnews: I'm taking the blonde prego chick...the good news: I just saved 15% on my car insurance by switching to Geico

I like it when you people are funny.

"Ethan, you've just been beat-up, captured, tied-up, and are about to be tortured. What are you going to do?"

"I'm going to Disneyland!"

(Which ties in with Mr. Tibbs previous observation that they may very well be at Eurodisney.)