Ok, so here's what got me. Theres an earthquake. Everyone seems to know what do (it was just a bit strange) but then everyone runs outside aaaand... looks up? Benry actually starts it. He walks out of whatever house he was in, takes a look at Juliette, then immediately starts scanning the skies. I mean you just had an earthquake for goodness sakes, what do you think caused it? Clouds? Seriously. And when the plane shows up and breaks appart in mid air nobody seems surprised... I know there's been a lot of talk about whether the Others planed/knew about/foretold the plane crash or not, but this sky scanning business seemed really odd. Something's up (ha! ... sorry) and I don't know what it is. Any ideas?

I, actually, just had one (go me!). So, "Live together die alone part 2" we learn of the 2 times the button wasn't pressed as usual. The first time, Desmond frantically punches in the numbers, apparently with no success until everything just "happens" to go back to normal. BUT, the second time, the "terminate" key is used, which apparently causes some huge flare in the sky that everyone on the island sees. So maybe... just maybe, it had happened once before, and the Others knew about it or had been told ("and on that day there wilt be an trembleing of the earth and an light on high and thou wilt know what hast happen-ed"), and were looking for the same thing, but instead, saw a plane breaking apart in the air.

However, there's another oddity I just thought of, which is, the second button-push failure didn't seem to cause any earthquake, at least on the dock where Jack and Friends (does anyone else find it kind of funny whenever one of them yells "WHERE ARE MY FRIENDS?" I mean, "my friends" sounds like something a kid would ask) are captives. Something happens at the beach because they have stuff strewn all over that they're picking up, but it seems as though it were all the metal things that got tugged towards the hatch by the magnetic forces. Not sure, but there definitly was no real quake at the dock and judging by the remoteness of the Other's village, a quake from the hatch should affect the whole island.

Ok, I've maxed out my thinking abilities. Someone else can take over now.

It might of been a quake, so they went outside to check everyone was okay, then they heard the plane breaking apart and looked up and saw it.

The quake was the SYSTEM FAILURE.

They all hear the engine of the plane before they look up, it's drowned out by the music on my speakers, but it's there.

you're sure you can hear it? If that's the case then, well, obviously this whole point is rather moot, but I still can't hear the plane until after they've all started looking at the sky... there's what I would call thematic-rumbling in the background, an effect or the music score, but not what I would consider to be from the plane. I could be wrong though.

However, in listening closely I noticed something else: when all the Others run outside, everyone is asking "Did anyone see the source?" "Do you know where the source is?" source source source. What's that supposed to mean?

Also, check out Juliettes expression as she watches the plane. To me, it looks like the face of anyone normal who is suddenly faced with witnessing a tragedy. As if she were thinking, "Oh no!, those poor people!" where as Benry shows no emotion, and immediately gets to snapping out orders. But by the time Benry turns to talk to her, she's totally under control, with an emotionless face. interesting...

Regardless of whether or not we, television viewers, can hear it, the Others could, seeing as how they lacked background music, and planes are noisy when they're flying that low, especially when they start to go to pieces.

then i think the sound people need to reevaluate the priorities of background music and sounds from the show... i didn't hear the plane at all until it was in sight, so when they all started looking up, I also was like "why the hell would you look up?!" so i concluded that ben definitely knew what was happening and expecting something.

and i don't have experience with low flying planes really... so i assumed you couldn't hear it unless something like it cracking in half and exploding happened, (which happened after we got a view of it... it started off as a whole plane when we first saw it). at that height i mean. i know you can hear a plane near the ground... i just assumed it was "out of ear shot" since we couldn't hear it

planes are damn noisy esp that low and i can only assume there would be loud cracks and noises comin from the plane before it fully broke up. automatic reaction look towards noise

you're sure you can hear it? If that's the case then, well, obviously this whole point is rather moot, but I still can't hear the plane until after they've all started looking at the sky... there's what I would call thematic-rumbling in the background, an effect or the music score, but not what I would consider to be from the plane. I could be wrong though.

However, in listening closely I noticed something else: when all the Others run outside, everyone is asking "Did anyone see the source?" "Do you know where the source is?" source source source. What's that supposed to mean?

Also, check out Juliettes expression as she watches the plane. To me, it looks like the face of anyone normal who is suddenly faced with witnessing a tragedy. As if she were thinking, "Oh no!, those poor people!" where as Benry shows no emotion, and immediately gets to snapping out orders. But by the time Benry turns to talk to her, she's totally under control, with an emotionless face. interesting...

Great catch on the "Source" thing....I just listened with headphones and you are right.
I have to say it is very hard (even with headphones) to hear the plane through the music. There could be a faint rumbling noise, as Richardstone has mentioned, it's really hard to tell.

Ok, so here's what got me. Theres an earthquake. Everyone seems to know what do (it was just a bit strange) but then everyone runs outside aaaand... looks up? Benry actually starts it. He walks out of whatever house he was in, takes a look at Juliette, then immediately starts scanning the skies. I mean you just had an earthquake for goodness sakes, what do you think caused it? Clouds? Seriously. And when the plane shows up and breaks appart in mid air nobody seems surprised... I know there's been a lot of talk about whether the Others planed/knew about/foretold the plane crash or not, but this sky scanning business seemed really odd. Something's up (ha! ... sorry) and I don't know what it is. Any ideas?

Watch the scene again in slo-mo if you can. You'll see they're looking around at each other first, then there's a rumbling noise and then they begin to look up.

My guess would be a crashing airplane would make a lot of noise...I live near an airport and some of them fly so low it sounds like they are landing in my backyard..Makes you look right up in the air when you hear it. Trust me, its the noise of the plane that makes them look up.

then i think the sound people need to reevaluate the priorities of background music and sounds from the show... i didn't hear the plane at all until it was in sight, so when they all started looking up, I also was like "why the hell would you look up?!" so i concluded that ben definitely knew what was happening and expecting something.

and i don't have experience with low flying planes really... so i assumed you couldn't hear it unless something like it cracking in half and exploding happened, (which happened after we got a view of it... it started off as a whole plane when we first saw it). at that height i mean. i know you can hear a plane near the ground... i just assumed it was "out of ear shot" since we couldn't hear it

As someone who has lived in O'hare Airports flight path for her whole life, you hear planes quite a ways, and the lower to the ground they get, the louder they are.

Add that to an island that one would assume is not within a regular flight path, it'd be noticable, I'm sure.

I have to agree with everyone else who says they heard the plane. I also live near an airport and you can hear them before you see them some times.

Why did they look up in the sky?
- Some people were already outside doing chores. It seems to me that it is possible at least one of them... I dunno... glanced... at the sky? Does no one ever look up anymore? Everyone I see is looking at cracks in the sidewalk. Anyways, people could have been looking up at the sky and pointed the plane out to their neighbors. Another possibility is when everyone went out of their homes they saw a HUGE plane along the horizon in the distance, something easily seen (smoking metal against a blue backdrop).

People looked up at the sky because that's what people do in a panic situation. The look around frantically in all directions (including skyward), and that is what gave them focus to the plane. Henry came straight out of his house and looked up because he saw everyone else doing it from inside the house. Maybe? I dunno. This is all just guessing.
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As for the whole earthquake thing, that was a direct effect from Desmond not pushing the button. The button acts as a release valve. Every time you push it, the hatch releases enough pent up energy so that the electromagnetic force doesn't destroy the earth (or island or whatever). By the time he got to the button he had to enter the numbers several times to release enough energy so that the hatch would stabalize. The second time around, when he terminated the whole thing, that's like tearing a whole in a helium balloon with a knife. All of the energy rushed out in one gigantic blast.

My ideas anyway.

As far as the sound of the plane goes, I will mention as a few others have, that I live over 30 miles from an airport and hear planes flying over. They are not even that low this far out and are still noticeable (I always think of Lost when I hear them). So I would naturally assume they would have been hearing it before looking up.




However, in listening closely I noticed something else: when all the Others run outside, everyone is asking "Did anyone see the source?" "Do you know where the source is?" source source source. What's that supposed to mean?



That is interesting and would go along with the theory that the quake came from the plane entering the barrier surrounding the island. I will have to watch that part yet another time!

All great theories. It seems quite important that everyone knew exactly what to do. All Benry had to say was go and make lists. I think in a situation like that anywhere else, the general reaction would be "Make WHAT lists?". Yet Ethan and Goodwin knew exactly what Benry was asking for. Seems like this points toward the Others knowing this was going to happen. Lets think about it...When Desmond came, it was a ship wreck and would have made no real noise. Henry Gales balloon crashed before the Losties I think, but I think again that it would have been relatively silent. We don;t know how Kelvin got there, or Radzinski. But before that, there was only Rousseau (shipwreck) and the Black Rock (shipwreck) that we know of. I think all of this points to the Others executing a drill of some sort when this happens, and the scene was not some random act of Benrys leadership.

I originally posted that I thought they looked up because of the sound too in another thread discussing this. But after watching again a few times, it DOES seem as though Ben comes out of the house and purposefully looks up as if he knows something is up there before any of the others do. They kind of take their lead from him and start looking up then. They are all looking in different directions. If they heard the plan at this point wouldn't they all be looking toward the plane as the source of the sound? (I suppose the sound could have been echoing or something and they couldn't tell where it was coming from.) But still it did make me feel like Ben knew it was coming and I wonder if maybe he was at the monitoring station in the house next door to Juliet's and knew that the button hadn't been pushed and saw on the radar or whatever that a plane was coming in. Just the feeling the scene gave me.

I'm sure they looked up because they heard that huge plane flying overhead. Just like everyone else in the world does when a jet that big flies so close overhead.

He walks out of whatever house he was in, takes a look at Juliette, then immediately starts scanning the skies. I mean you just had an earthquake for goodness sakes, what do you think caused it? Clouds? Seriously.

i just wanted to throw in my two cents, as someone who has grown up with airplanes. i think we are all underestimating how loud a plane is. a huge passenger jet, flying as low to the island as that plane was, even when it is miles and miles and miles and miles away, it is SO OVERPOWERINGLY LOUD!!! especially when not indoors, and not separated by any barrier between you and the plane. so loud!! even if they didn't portray it so loud in the show due to the background music, etc., it is most definitely loud enough for people to look up immediately, even before the plane starts breaking up and crashing.


i think the scene is supposed to be kind of a red herring, or something to tease the fans who believe the others knew about the plane crashing before it happened. and oh it definitely teased them! just like how they may be teasing the underwater hatch supporters by making it seem obvious the hatch is underwater... when really it isn't... hehe but i guess i won't get into that in this thread :)

i just wanted to throw in my two cents, as someone who has grown up with airplanes. i think we are all underestimating how loud a plane is. a huge passenger jet, flying as low to the island as that plane was, even when it is miles and miles and miles and miles away, it is SO OVERPOWERINGLY LOUD!!! especially when not indoors, and not separated by any barrier between you and the plane. so loud!! even if they didn't portray it so loud in the show due to the background music, etc., it is most definitely loud enough for people to look up immediately, even before the plane starts breaking up and crashing.




Yes - I believe they would have heard it before they even went outside. I also think people should not forget the S2 finale. Everyone covered their ears indicating a loud noise, but we as viewers heard nothing.

I also think people should not forget the S2 finale. Everyone covered their ears indicating a loud noise, but we as viewers heard nothing.

Um, I was always under the impression that it was a loud noise, that is, in the sense that a plane is loud, but a painful noise. Think of a noise like the really high pitched whine of an old TV. It's not that it's loud, but it's really annoying. The fluxuating electronic hum that was the sound-effect at the time I thought was meant to give the impression that the sound was manifested as a sort of ubiquitous (ie, it's point source was not audibly identifiable, and though the light would be a big hint, that's visual), low pitch, sine-wave sound that may very well have been painful, and under no circumstances would it have been confused with an aircraft sound - assuming the point you're making is that everyone was looking up because they'd heard the sound from LTDAp2 at some previous time. hm. that was a mighty long sentence.

But back to the plane noise, my thought is this, that perhaps, just perhaps, right after you've been through an earthquake and you're running outside, I wonder if it wouldn't be rather easy to neglect to notice the rumble of an airplane until it's right over your head. There would be a lot of noise from everyone around you going "what was that" "are you ok?" and "where's the source?" that it might take longer to notice the noise of a plane. However, listening to the scene over and over at increasingly louder volume on my super-duper headphones, I'm switching feet here to say that yes, I think the noise behind the music IS supposed to be the plane, because I get hints of the engine whine in a few places along with the general rumble. So putting these two thoughts together it just seems as though Benry, just after the quake, is in a fairly decent state of mind, not preoccupied with, say, caring about the well-being of others, or of damage assessment, and perhaps less affected by shock than the rest of the Others, and therefore is the first one to take not of the plane noise and start looking for it's source. so there's that thought, whatever it entails...

But the "source" thing still bugs me. The two quotes I get are:

"Does anyone know what the source was?" (woman, shouting in background)
- and -
"... where the source is?" (woman talking off camera as if directly asking someone else. The first couple words of her question aren't audible.)

Can we get the 'whispers' audio people on this? I'm sure there's lots of interesting stuff said that we can't really make out.

But the "source" thing still bugs me. The two quotes I get are:

"Does anyone know what the source was?" (woman, shouting in background)
- and -
"... where the source is?" (woman talking off camera as if directly asking someone else. The first couple words of her question aren't audible.)

Can we get the 'whispers' audio people on this? I'm sure there's lots of interesting stuff said that we can't really make out.

Yup we're on it, Tramp made a post in the whispers thread about this scene yesterday and it looks juicy!! We'll post in the whispers thread when we have something (link is in my signature)

remember too, they dont usually hear planes going overhead (if at all) I would have thought they would have all heard it when it was far away, it would be such an unfamiliar sound to them!!

I think that the crash might've been "prophescized" and the prophecy said after the quake there would be a plane crash that...............? Maybe would tear apart their civilization?

The Others have been waiting for this..........I mean....Henry was quick and precise on who was going after the plane.......This was no accident......

Ok, so here's what got me. Theres an earthquake. Everyone seems to know what do (it was just a bit strange) but then everyone runs outside aaaand... looks up? Benry actually starts it. He walks out of whatever house he was in, takes a look at Juliette, then immediately starts scanning the skies. I mean you just had an earthquake for goodness sakes, what do you think caused it? Clouds? Seriously. And when the plane shows up and breaks appart in mid air nobody seems surprised... I know there's been a lot of talk about whether the Others planed/knew about/foretold the plane crash or not, but this sky scanning business seemed really odd. Something's up (ha! ... sorry) and I don't know what it is. Any ideas?

I agree with you. The others reaction was kinda odd. No one panic, everyone act like they been through it all before, and maybe they had, considering that flight 815 wasn't the first plane that crash on the island. Eko's brother drug plane crash on the island. I wonder what cause that plane crash? You know what else I found kinda odd, was that Ben told Ethan to blend in among the survivors...after seeing a plane fall apart like that, most people would assume that there will be no survivors. So why was Ben so quicky to assume that there were?

The Others have been waiting for this..........I mean....Henry was quick and precise on who was going after the plane.......This was no accident......

I agree with you. The others reaction was kinda odd. No one panic, everyone act like they been through it all before, and maybe they had, considering that flight 815 wasn't the first plane that crash on the island. Eko's brother drug plane crash on the island. I wonder what cause that plane crash? You know what else I found kinda odd, was that Ben told Ethan to blend in among the survivors...after seeing a plane fall apart like that, most people would assume that there will be no survivors. So why was Ben so quicky to assume that there were?

Because maybe, just maybe this was not the first plane crash on the island that Ben was there for....if there are in fact other people on the island besides the Losties and the Others, how do we know they are not survivors of another plane crash? I dont think they were expecting the crash, as much as they have been involved in other crashes and just did what they always do in that situation. Or maybe they were expecting flight 815 to come to the island, but not by crashing on it..It was just not the way it was planned.

I think the most obvious clue that the Others had some sort of additional information regarding this crash (or things crashing into the island in general) is that Benry clearly anticipated survivors. He is obviously quite intelligent, and people generally do not survive an incident like that. Setting aside any kind of motives, morality, etc., why would you instantly assume that there are people alive?

Is this not just the same as the plane crash conspiracy thread ? Seems to be diluting discussion.

He is obviously quite intelligent, and people generally do not survive an incident like that. Setting aside any kind of motives, morality, etc., why would you instantly assume that there are people alive?

Exactly! After viewing the plane fall completely apart, most people would assume that no one would have been able to survive the crash. When Sayid first awoke from the crash, he made a
observation that no one should have been able to survive the crash. When Ben spoke to Ethan, he did not ask him to see if there were any survivior, he told him to blend in, among the survive. Like there wasn't a shadow of a doubt in his mind that there would be survivors. :eek2:

Ok, I think I may have an idea about all this "source" business. When something enters the magical "bubble" of this island, it causes an earthquake. Stuff isn't supposed to get through this barrier, so when it does it causes a great disturbance. The plane coming through the island's atmosphere/barrier/whatever is what caused the quake. This explains the absence of a quake in LTDA when the button is not pushed.

In terms of why they survived the crash in the first place, I like the already mentioned idea that the failsafe button temporarily reverses the magnetic field. This would make the plane slow down and also explains why the hatch door got blown sky high.