Didn't like the ep? Tell us why. :biggrin:






This thread is for those that did NOT like the episode. If you liked the ep please visit the "Loved it!!!" thread. If you want to debate the episode (likes and dislikes), then please take your comments to the "Rate This Episode" thread or start your own topic. Any off topic posts will be deleted and possibly warned or given infraction points.

This is my FIRST time posting in the "eh" thread. I hated that cliffhanger, hold on a sec, what exactly was the cliffhanger? It left a bitter taste in my mouth knowing I got to wait till Feb. =(

Lost sucks. I've watched this show for 2.5 years and this was the biggest disappointment of all time. I'm done with this stupid show. What a joke.

Wow.

I wish it were possible to say this episode simply "Jumped the Shark", but I can't.

Instead, I can only describe "I Do" as the moment "Lost" not only imploded, but threw itself (and most likely a huge number of the fans) under the bus before jumping the shark.

Two years of an often intelligent, poignant show has been incomprehensibly thrown in the crapper. Are the people responsible for the first six episodes of season three even remotely familiar with the previous forty-eight episodes?

What an utter catastrophe. Everyone knows Kate is no Mary Poppins, but at least she had some honor, and some dignity. I'm by no means a shipper, but all the nonsense with Sawyer came out of the clear blue sky. Sex in a cage, while being taped, with a guy who has dumped all over her for two seasons? Not only has the show thrown the viewers under a bus, they've thrown Kate under it too.

"Lost" was one of two shows on TV that I bothered to follow over the last several years. Sadly, "I Do" was the series finale for me. I wouldn't be surprised if this episode is looked back upon as the hour that killed what was once a thoroughly entertaining and rather promising show.

I won't be tuning in again.

JUMMMMPPPPP THHHHEEEEEEE SHHHHHAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRKKKKKKKKK!!!!!!


Man, that was so bad words fail me. I can honestly say there was the cheeesyest dialog I have ever EVER seen on a TV show.

I'm out...

Laughable.

Good to see Lost has a strategy for getting back in the Emmy race; switch from the drama category to comedy.

Wow, so you can take a couple guys out with a slingshot?

Kate climbs out of her cage and busts the lock off of Sawyer's cage with a few smacks? Ridiculous. Kate and Sawyer start kissing and getting it on? Am I the only one who felt embarrased and actually laughed at this scene?

Lost has become a complete embarrasment. The writing is juvenile and amatuer. The pacing is glacier and misguided. The flashbacks are stale and pointless. Plotlines are disposable. Lost is a big jumbled mess of a soap opera. If TPTB have so much story to tell, why don't they start telling it? If they know where they're going and have a plan, how about proving it? The emperor has no clothes.

This 6 episode mini season could have been 3 episodes (and that's probably being generous). What a huge disappointment. What a ridiculous "cliffhanger".

The acting was, as always, very good. But, alas, no answers other than we finally know who Kate chooses. Very romantic and sweet.

But NO answers to any of the mysteries we've been trying to piece together for 2.5 years. I think the writers have even forgotten what they did during the first two seasons. For example, Sayid asking Locke what killed Eko, and Locke answers "they call it the monster". Sayid told the French woman in S1 when he heard the noise that it might be "The Monster". Did they just FORGET? How else can you explain the blatant incontinuity?

We were promised a "Scream Out Loud" moment. We were duped. I don't have much faith left in the series. I think WE are the Long Con here!!

What the he!! kind of cliffhanger was that? I felt nothing, let alone the inclination to "scream". And the message Locke discovered "that would help solve the mystery of the island"....well we all read the Eko stick already. I expected something to ponder and decipher over the hiatus. I expected a cliffhanger. Instead, I am still standing steadily and unexcited on level ground.

That was by far the worst Lost episode to date. What happened to this show?

I liked Jack in this episode and he is the slender thread that is keeping me watching but that thread is getting strained and ready to snap.

This was an episode for shippers pure and simple. The cliff hanger? Oh no..Sawyer is in danger! Again. I honestly don't want the character off the show but I'm reaching the point where I wish they would just kill him already. I'm getting tired of all those close calls and teasers that surround him.

Kate...I like her less and less every episode.

I debating whether or not I'm coming back after the break..especially if follow through with their threats of a Charlie/Claire triangle. I don't think I will be able to stand another one!

Oh come on we all want and need the LOVE that is going on this show. Thats what the show is. Its a soap opera. A bad one at that.

The on camera sex scene, the snugglin, the cuddlin, it was a beautiful moment in time that we should cherish always. The shippers are gigglin up a storm and eating it all up. This side of Sawyer was so touching......

Ok forget it....this show blows

EDIT....wait till you see the good ship Skate love makin thread that goes on till Feb. I just threw up ALOT in my mouth just now.

Wow.

I wish it were possible to say this episode simply "Jumped the Shark", but I can't.

Instead, I can only describe "I Do" as the moment "Lost" not only imploded, but threw itself (and most likely a huge number of the fans) under the bus before jumping the shark.

Two years of an often intelligent, poignant show has been incomprehensibly thrown in the crapper. Are the people responsible for the first six episodes of season three even remotely familiar with the previous forty-eight episodes?

What an utter catastrophe. Everyone knows Kate is no Mary Poppins, but at least she had some honor, and some dignity. I'm by no means a shipper, but all the nonsense with Sawyer came out of the clear blue sky. Sex in a cage, while being taped, with a guy who has dumped all over her for two seasons? Not only has the show thrown the viewers under a bus, they've thrown Kate under it too.

"Lost" was one of two shows on TV that I bothered to follow over the last several years. Sadly, "I Do" was the series finale for me. I wouldn't be surprised if this episode is looked back upon as the hour that killed what was once a thoroughly entertaining and rather promising show.

I won't be tuning in again.
littlehorn, ITA, welcome to the Fuse and sorry it is at an episode with such a pitiful excuse for writing. They've completely abandoned character, integrity, even interesting plotlines. You're absolutely right on Kate. This completely cheapened her character to the point where I don't care anymore.
They gave away the whole ep in the promos. And what was the cliffhanger? That Sawyer's life is in danger? That Ben might not survive? Do we care anymore, since even Sawyer is just a wet noodle now?

i loved season one and two because it had great characters, character interaction, mystery and plot. But lost has now turned into desperate houswives. OMG sawyer slept with kate and now jack knows OMG OMG OMG Im really gitting tired of it. What mystery has there been so far. Sure we have desmond seeing the future and hey theres anouther island, but i think they made a big mistake when they said there would be more romance. I mean im all for premiscuis sex on lets say a show like nip tuck, or grays anatomy, but lost just dosnt come across as a show where people screw every other episode. and the characters dont even act like the characters they were in the first two seasons. Locke has become less mysterious just sharing everything he knows to desmond, sayid, nicki and paulo. next thing you know Locke is going to throw a big campfire paryt and tell all the castaways he was in a wheelchair and his kidney was stolen by his dad. The show has also gotten pretty predictiable too, no big shocker moments this season like there were in the first few eps of season two. Now i liked the episode, but its not the lost it used to be.

Man. I hate having to come to this thread. I generally liked the mini-season but this really just brought it to an anti-climactic end. I don't have as totally negative a view as most in this thread (afterall, while disappointing, it did still entertain me (to a point), which is all I really expect from my TV shows).

I don't know, I just wanted it to be more, and to be bigger. Otherwise, it was a pretty average primetime television drama. Which, again, it isn't bad, but we know the potential this show has (and I felt demonstrated in at least three episodes throughout the mini-season, maybe 4), so making it a normal drama is just a huge let down.

And the cliff hanger? Okay, it was an average scene to cut out during, nothing huge like we're used to with LOST, but pretty average as far as TV shows go. It reminded me of some old X-FIles cliffhangers.

Overall, bah. It won't drive me away, but it was a let down.

That's it?? That's the cliffhanger that's supposed to hold us for 13 weeks? Nothing happened in that entire episode! :frown:

This whole six-episode arc has been some of the worst Lost has offered so far. I honestly think a lot of that has to do with only focusing so much on Jack, Kate and Sawyer. The show really works and is great as an ensemble drama. It's awful as the Jack, Kate and Sawyer soap opera love triangle.

The worst bit is how horribily they've destroyed poor Kate's character. I feel really bad for her. I've always liked Kate, but she's been so out of character.... Completely gone is the strong, take-charge woman from seasons one and two.

I love Lost and desperately want it to be good and do well. But when three of my friends who are fans call me after that episode and say they're done, I can't blame them. That was quite awful. :frown:

First, let me get this out of the way - we FINALLY have a scene where one of our protagonists actually successfully takes advantage of a situation and does something. Mind you, it had to come when the leader of the Others willingly puts himself under and at the mercy of Jack, so it's not like Jack accomplished this through some marvelous feat of will. Nah, he was essentially asked to do it. But still, at least he didn't just whimper and do as he's told like Kate has been doing all season. "I am Jack's angry revenge" was the only thing I didn't cringe at this episode.

Now that I've gotten the only positive about tonight's episode out of the way, onto my critical reaction:

-----------------

"I Do"? More like "I don't".

I don't understand why we wasted 6 episodes on about 3 episodes worth of story. Ponder with me, if you will, what happened between A Tale of Two Cities and I Do that was necessary to have 4 episodes between them. Consider if Eko simply died in the hatch implosion, as he should have - we can then ditch Further Instructions and The Cost of Living. Did anything noteworthy or of importance ultimately happen in those episodes? Eko was missing and possibly dead, Eko was found, Eko was killed.

Huh? Why not just ... have him die in the explosion? I mean, they gave him a terrible send off anyway, what with getting tossed about like a cartoon by the black smoke that had previously given him a pass... So what was the purpose of looking for him, finding him, having him escape, looking for him (again), and finding him, only to have him die? What changed? Nothing. So think about it: If Eko dies in the explosion and the episode progression had been A Tale of Two Cities, The Glass Ballerina, Every Man For Himself, and then I Do, what would we have missed? Anything?

Now let's think about it a little bit more. Did we really even need Every Man For Himself? What did we learn? Well, we learned they were on a different island... in the last 60 seconds of the episode. The rest of the episode was spent in some ludicrous 'trick' which ultimately wasn't necessary. Just take Sawyer at gunpoint up to the top of the mountain, show him he's on a different island, and ... viola, you've accomplished the same thing in 60 seconds instead of wasting an entire episode. This one scene could have been put anywhere else, in any other episode.

So, now we're down to three episodes: A Tale of Two Cities, The Glass Ballerina, and then I Do. Make two changes (1 - Have Eko die in the implosion, 2 - put the 'we're on a different island' scene in any other episode), and suddenly this 'pre-season' is 50% shorter, but we aren't missing anything. Nothing!

I don't like any of Kate's flashbacks. They're redundant, boring, and inconsequential. This has gone beyond ludicrous with her. How many times will the writers go back to the well of 'Kate is on the run. Kate will always be on the run. Kate will never settle down. Kate betrays people she loves'? Honestly, the characters in her flashbacks change, but the story is the same every freakin' time. So in the same episode that we see her get married, she also flees from the marriage. Pointless. Completely pointless.

I don't get what was so mind-blowing about the 'message' Locke 'discovers' (Discovers! Ha! It's been on that freakin' stick since Eko got there! More like "finally noticed and applied a meaning to it that wasn't intended when it was written"). "Lift up your eyes and look North". Well, gee, I wonder what will happen when he does that? Hmm... let me guess, he'll see the other Island? That's The 'mystery of the Island'?! That's the best they can come up with? A reference to a revelation that they've already made (that there are two islands)? Wow, they're running out of ideas, FAST.

I don't think this show will pull out of its ratings nose-dive. The writers seem to be completely oblivious to the problems in the show - the inconsistancies, the horrible dialogue, the cheesy, forced 'romance', the absurd situations (a SLINGSHOT!? Are you kidding me?), the completely illogical actions, the lack of communication, etc., etc., etc., and seem completely fine just marching on ahead with their fingers in their ears going "LA LA LA LA" and giving us garbage each week. People have been taking note all season, and the contingent of disgruntled viewers is growing weekly.

The writers seem to think that people want to see Kate get together with someone. I don't.

The writers seem to think it's OK to discard the island mythology for shirtless scenes. I don't.

The writers seem to think that they've concocted a great 'cliff hanger' in this episode. I don't.

I think they just gave millions of people the proverbial finger with these six episodes, and I know that everyone I talk(ed) to about Lost doesn't have near the same passion for the show that they used to.

I don't.

First, let me get this out of the way - we FINALLY have a scene where one of our protagonists actually successfully takes advantage of a situation and does something. Mind you, it had to come when the leader of the Others willingly puts himself under and at the mercy of Jack, so it's not like Jack accomplished this through some marvelous feat of will. Nah, he was essentially asked to do it. But still, at least he didn't just whimper and do as he's told like Kate has been doing all season. "I am Jack's angry revenge" was the only thing I didn't cringe at this episode.

Now that I've gotten the only positive about tonight's episode out of the way, onto my critical reaction:

-----------------

"I Do"? More like "I don't".

I don't understand why we wasted 6 episodes on about 3 episodes worth of story. Ponder with me, if you will, what happened between A Tale of Two Cities and I Do that was necessary to have 4 episodes between them. Consider if Eko simply died in the hatch implosion, as he should have - we can then ditch Further Instructions and The Cost of Living. Did anything noteworthy or of importance ultimately happen in those episodes? Eko was missing and possibly dead, Eko was found, Eko was killed.

Huh? Why not just ... have him die in the explosion? I mean, they gave him a terrible send off anyway, what with getting tossed about like a cartoon by the black smoke that had previously given him a pass... So what was the purpose of looking for him, finding him, having him escape, looking for him (again), and finding him, only to have him die? What changed? Nothing. So think about it: If Eko dies in the explosion and the episode progression had been A Tale of Two Cities, The Glass Ballerina, Every Man For Himself, and then I Do, what would we have missed? Anything?

Now let's think about it a little bit more. Did we really even need Every Man For Himself? What did we learn? Well, we learned they were on a different island... in the last 60 seconds of the episode. The rest of the episode was spent in some ludicrous 'trick' which ultimately wasn't necessary. Just take Sawyer at gunpoint up to the top of the mountain, show him he's on a different island, and ... viola, you've accomplished the same thing in 60 seconds instead of wasting an entire episode. This one scene could have been put anywhere else, in any other episode.

So, now we're down to three episodes: A Tale of Two Cities, The Glass Ballerina, and then I Do. Make two changes (1 - Have Eko die in the implosion, 2 - put the 'we're on a different island' scene in any other episode), and suddenly this 'pre-season' is 50% shorter, but we aren't missing anything. Nothing!

I don't like any of Kate's flashbacks. They're redundant, boring, and inconsequential. This has gone beyond ludicrous with her. How many times will the writers go back to the well of 'Kate is on the run. Kate will always be on the run. Kate will never settle down. Kate betrays people she loves'? Honestly, the characters in her flashbacks change, but the story is the same every freakin' time. So in the same episode that we see her get married, she also flees from the marriage. Pointless. Completely pointless.

I don't get what was so mind-blowing about the 'message' Locke 'discovers' (Discovers! Ha! It's been on that freakin' stick since Eko got there! More like "finally noticed and applied a meaning to it that wasn't intended when it was written"). "Lift up your eyes and look North". Well, gee, I wonder what will happen when he does that? Hmm... let me guess, he'll see the other Island? That's The 'mystery of the Island'?! That's the best they can come up with? A reference to a revelation that they've already made (that there are two islands)? Wow, they're running out of ideas, FAST.

I don't think this show will pull out of its ratings nose-dive. The writers seem to be completely oblivious to the problems in the show - the inconsistancies, the horrible dialogue, the cheesy, forced 'romance', the absurd situations (a SLINGSHOT!? Are you kidding me?), the completely illogical actions, the lack of communication, etc., etc., etc., and seem completely fine just marching on ahead with their fingers in their ears going "LA LA LA LA" and giving us garbage each week. People have been taking note all season, and the contingent of disgruntled viewers is growing weekly.

The writers seem to think that people want to see Kate get together with someone. I don't.

The writers seem to think it's OK to discard the island mythology for shirtless scenes. I don't.

The writers seem to think that they've concocted a great 'cliff hanger' in this episode. I don't.

I think they just gave millions of people the proverbial finger with these six episodes, and I know that everyone I talk(ed) to about Lost doesn't have near the same passion for the show that they used to.

I don't.


Very well put, I echo every single one of your comments, this episode SUCKED!

when they didnt leave the open cage, it felt like one of those stupid fright, night movies like friday the 13th part 4million...

I've vented over in the Insiderscoop thread in Spoilers, but I just want to say that I agree with everyone here. There wasn't a single turn of events that wasn't entirely predictable. Let Grey's Anatomy be Grey's Anatomy and let Lost be Lost, please!

At least they've changed the name of the "eh" thread to "didn't like." Will they ever get really courageous and call it the "I Hated it thread," because lots of us will be there soon.

Cardie

This was so boring for an episode with such a hyped up cliff hanger.
Kate is boring and her flashbacks are the same thing.
The sex scene was so pointless (well that's the jater in me speaking so I'm biased)

Lost better re-invent itself over the next three months. Can't TPTB remember that the first season was the season that made Lost popular? Also, it was the season that got the best reviews, the least critiscism, and highest ratings.

Lost should remodel itself after the way it was before... Heck i'd even take another button.

yeah i just relized, it is like grays anatomy now with ben and his tumor and sex galore. I agree with you sobek, the producers do need to remodle and make it like it was in season one and two with great mystery and great character development.

Again I'm in the Eh thread, or is it the "Didn't Love it" or now the "I Don't" thread. As said in the previous Eh topic, this one might need a lot more chairs for the newcomers.


The writers seem to think that people want to see Kate get together with someone. I don't.

I don't either

The writers seem to think it's OK to discard the island mythology for shirtless scenes. I don't.

I don't either

The writers seem to think that they've concocted a great 'cliff hanger' in this episode. I don't.

I don't either

I think they just gave millions of people the proverbial finger with these six episodes, and I know that everyone I talk(ed) to about Lost doesn't have near the same passion for the show that they used to.

I don't.
I don't either or now more likely I'm done
It feels like I just signed a petition.

What was the cliffhanger again? If I have to ask, it must not have been that good after all.


Gregg Nations watched the "Watching Lives" topics, both Canada and East Coast while they aired. Now I did not get to see how they posted before it finished airing, I do know the Canada one did not have any OMG at the end of the show. Hopefully it sends a message to the writers but they should really be looking at these Eh topics instead because most of the posts are very well thought out. I said most because mine stink.

Eko's stick, that had the message all along ... AT THE TOP IN PLAIN VIEW ... is Locke's big island discovery?

I'll give the writers props for at least not having the new genious lady or potty boy find it.

honestly, what happend to this show. Seriously, what happend to this show? I though tonight i might be singing a different tune about the previous 5 episodes. but i'm not. Lots of hype for episodes that explain nothing...or change anything. technically, we still don't know why the others took Kate & Sawyer. Jack we know why, i assume they took those other two to force him to operate on ben maybe...things just don't add up... We still have no answer about what happend in the hatch other than it exploding or imploding, and why desmond can see the future. oh AND WE DON'T KNOW WHY THE OTHERS ARE ON THE ISLAND AND WHAT THEY"RE FRIGGING DOING THERE!!!!! AND WHY THEY'RE TREATING THE SURVIVORS ALL SHADY

kates flashback was pointless. we really didn't learn anything from it that we didn't know already. we knew she was married (that drinking game with sawyer) we knew she's used pregnancy tests before (convo with sun) we know she's on the run from the law...ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh her husband bought oceanic airline tickets...is THAT the shocker? pfffff

SO WHAT WAS THE POINT TO HER FLASH BACK?! it just took away from island time, thats it plain and simple...

When the show comes back...we need answers...and to qoute Hurley...I WANT SOME FRIGGIN ANSWERS!!! oh and i'm not watching Groundhog Day the TV Series...it must be hella great if they have to tease lost viewers to watch it to get a sneak peak of the new episodes that are probably lamer than the last 6 episodes.

honestly. you are losing me, a hardcore fan of the show...so you can imagine whats happening to casual fans of the show. get on the ball....if you compared star wars to lost...i feel like we just got phantom menaced. not really looking forward to the next 17 episodes at all if they're going to be like these last 6....with super hyped cliffhangers that are really more like dingleberries. If the show doesn't improve midway through the next run, this may infact be the last season of lost...although i know it'll get to seaon 4 b/c people will watch thinking that something good will come around eventually..but then again just look at the last three star wars movies...

see you in feb.

peace out.

This is probably my last post here, because tonight was my JUMP episode. There was little to like about it, and much to ridicule.

The entire premise of "I Do" seemed to be to fulfill the Skaters (or whatever we are calling the Sawyer/Kate shippers these days); but the execution was awful. The SexInACage scene was just cheesy and embarrassing. I can only imagine what the actors felt about having to do the scene, and then overdubbed with that "special moment" violin music? Just painful to watch.

As an aside, I usually enjoy Sawyer/Kate scenes, but this one was definitely "non chemical", if you get my drift.

The backstory was all about the cuteness of EL, nothing more, nothing less. She looked very pretty in the big white dress, but the phone call to the Marshall was just a joke. He said he'd stop chasing her if she stayed put? And she bailed on that? Please!!

And, Jack's decision to do the surgery just as Pickett's gun is cocked and aimed at Sawyer's head? C'mon, this has been done 10,000,000 times. It's old! Write something original.

I didn't see a cliffhanger. Maybe just me, but I didn't see it.

Yeah, this is definitely my JTS Episode. So, going to vote it.

Bye!!

Now that I've gotten the only positive about tonight's episode out of the way, onto my critical reaction:

-----------------

"I Do"? More like "I don't".

I don't understand why we wasted 6 episodes on about 3 episodes worth of story. Ponder with me, if you will, what happened between A Tale of Two Cities and I Do that was necessary to have 4 episodes between them. Consider if Eko simply died in the hatch implosion, as he should have - we can then ditch Further Instructions and The Cost of Living. Did anything noteworthy or of importance ultimately happen in those episodes? Eko was missing and possibly dead, Eko was found, Eko was killed.

Huh? Why not just ... have him die in the explosion? I mean, they gave him a terrible send off anyway, what with getting tossed about like a cartoon by the black smoke that had previously given him a pass... So what was the purpose of looking for him, finding him, having him escape, looking for him (again), and finding him, only to have him die? What changed? Nothing. So think about it: If Eko dies in the explosion and the episode progression had been A Tale of Two Cities, The Glass Ballerina, Every Man For Himself, and then I Do, what would we have missed? Anything?

Now let's think about it a little bit more. Did we really even need Every Man For Himself? What did we learn? Well, we learned they were on a different island... in the last 60 seconds of the episode. The rest of the episode was spent in some ludicrous 'trick' which ultimately wasn't necessary. Just take Sawyer at gunpoint up to the top of the mountain, show him he's on a different island, and ... viola, you've accomplished the same thing in 60 seconds instead of wasting an entire episode. This one scene could have been put anywhere else, in any other episode.

So, now we're down to three episodes: A Tale of Two Cities, The Glass Ballerina, and then I Do. Make two changes (1 - Have Eko die in the implosion, 2 - put the 'we're on a different island' scene in any other episode), and suddenly this 'pre-season' is 50% shorter, but we aren't missing anything. Nothing!



.

Great post, Vertical! I completely agree with you. This whole arc has just seemed stretched out to me.

I especially liked the part about discarding island mythology for shirtless scenes. As someone else said, this isn't Grey's Anatomy or some daytime soap. Seriously, leave Josh Holloway's shirt on from now on. It's just silly and ridiculous to be spending more time looking at his chest then learning about things that actually matter... I don't know. I feel very disillusioned. I don't want to, but I can't help it.

I think TPTB seriously overestimated the number of fans who care about the whole love triangle thing too. I for one did care, but I know I'm in the minority. Most people do not care care! Obviously they need to address those relationships from time to time, but this whole episode was designed for shippers it seemed... A whole episode is not necessary.

I think TPTB seriously overestimated the number of fans who care about the whole love triangle thing too. I for one did care, but I know I'm in the minority. Most people do not care care! Obviously they need to address those relationships from time to time, but this whole episode was designed for shippers it seemed... A whole episode is not necessary.

Not just any shippers, either. It felt like the whole episode was designed to please Skaters.

First, let me get this out of the way - we FINALLY have a scene where one of our protagonists actually successfully takes advantage of a situation and does something. Mind you, it had to come when the leader of the Others willingly puts himself under and at the mercy of Jack, so it's not like Jack accomplished this through some marvelous feat of will. Nah, he was essentially asked to do it. But still, at least he didn't just whimper and do as he's told like Kate has been doing all season. "I am Jack's angry revenge" was the only thing I didn't cringe at this episode.

Now that I've gotten the only positive about tonight's episode out of the way, onto my critical reaction:

I don't like any of Kate's flashbacks. They're redundant, boring, and inconsequential. This has gone beyond ludicrous with her. How many times will the writers go back to the well of 'Kate is on the run. Kate will always be on the run. Kate will never settle down. Kate betrays people she loves'? Honestly, the characters in her flashbacks change, but the story is the same every freakin' time. So in the same episode that we see her get married, she also flees from the marriage. Pointless. Completely pointless.

I don't get what was so mind-blowing about the 'message' Locke 'discovers' (Discovers! Ha! It's been on that freakin' stick since Eko got there! More like "finally noticed and applied a meaning to it that wasn't intended when it was written"). "Lift up your eyes and look North". Well, gee, I wonder what will happen when he does that? Hmm... let me guess, he'll see the other Island? That's The 'mystery of the Island'?! That's the best they can come up with? A reference to a revelation that they've already made (that there are two islands)? Wow, they're running out of ideas, FAST.

The writers seem to think it's OK to discard the island mythology for shirtless scenes. I don't.

The writers seem to think that they've concocted a great 'cliff hanger' in this episode. I don't.

I think they just gave millions of people the proverbial finger with these six episodes, and I know that everyone I talk(ed) to about Lost doesn't have near the same passion for the show that they used to.

I don't.
Vertical, you're so right. The only bright spot in the writing of this season is how Jack's character has changed from a too much bickering with Locke in the hatch to a cunning master actor who's playing Ben and Juliet like those hands of poker.

There's Kate's flashback, inwardly wringing her hands because she knows she has to change her story again soon and she was liking that 50's suburban housewife hairdo. Huh? What is our point here?

Beyond my utter disappointment at the about-face they've had Kate do since Season 2, they've also watered down the rest of the beachies, killed Eko, and brought in the most annoying two "new" characters Nikki and Paulo who parachuted in and began eating everyone's food. And Locke has reinvented himself more times than Madonna. The jungle guru is back, but he's all commune-happy. Doesn't he remember how well that worked out for him back in Ca.?

The hype was way overrated, there wasn't even a cliffhanger, and they gave it all away in the promos. I hope they're happy. In Season 1 & 2, I used to just shake my head after each episode and remark that Lost was the best thing I'd ever seen on screen. How well they managed to trash it in one month.

RIP Lost.

With a "cliffhanger" like that, good luck with the ratings race come February. You're going to need it.

Ah yes, tis a thin line between tragedy and farce. Personally I think Lost definitely crossed it in the season 2 finale, and I laughed all through it. I also found the commercials beyond the pale. I became a true fan’s fan some time back, finding the users and their comments/machinations on sites like this far more interesting than the show. Fact is I don’t even own a TV. Watched the season one DVD set on my computer and thought it pretty good for ABC, so I started following events online.

While I only saw a few season 2 episodes at my daughters-along with finale and episode 1 and 5 from this season-I keep up reading the comments/synopsis on various sites. I have learned quite a bit about the real history behind the production of Lost along the way, and will be posting it soon. It is a tale far more interesting than what is happening onscreen, and goes a long way toward explaining the decline in the quality of the show at this point. There is a struggle for control behind the scenes still going on, and how it is resolved will determine whether or not there even is a season 4. From what I’ve read all over the web I’m glad I didn’t bother to watch tonight’s show. With all the posts about the shark being jumped having morphed into a whale, Moby Dick comes to mind. One problem with a hit show is everyone in Burbank wants to ‘fix’ it. Call me Ishmael.

***POSTING AS A FAN NOT A MOD***

Is it possible to "Slingshot" the shark??

That was the single worst moment of any episode of LOST...a teenager..holding dozens of armed men at bay with a slingshot? Gads...

Vertical, awesome post.

Now, as for the Skate scene...ack! I don't care how hot they might be -- I don't for a moment believe they'd do the nasty without showering first. Ew...just...ew.

RIP Lost.

With a "cliffhanger" like that, good luck with the ratings race come February. You're going to need it.

Tell me about it. Honestly, do the writers not know what a cliffhanger is? Just look at the word - "cliff" "hanger" - as in - a show ending with someone hanging off of a cliff, outcome uncertain.

If the writers wanted a cliffhanger in this episode, they end it before Jack makes his move. They end it with his scalpal on Ben's kidney, with a moment of hesitation, a moment of doubt... will he do it? Won't he? What's his plan? What's he thinking? Then cut to Sawyer and Kate, both with guns to their heads.

End the show there, and you've got yourself a cliffhanger. Not the best one in the world, mind you, but something that actually qualifies as a cliffhanger, technically speaking. We don't know what is going to happen if the show stops there.

But instead, the show ends with Jack pulling off a stunt which gains an advantage, essentially frees Kate and Sawyer, and leaves Jack holding all the cards! I mean, Jack surely couldn't have been so stupid as to put down that Luger he picked up, right? So he's still got that... so he's got himself enough leverage to escape himself after Kate and Sawyer escape.

How is that a cliffhanger? What? What, exactly, is hanging from the figurative cliff? Not Jack, he's in a position of power. Not Kate, she's being let go. Maybe Sawyer, if Pickett just decides to up and kill him, but, really, wouldn't he have already shot him? Besides, if Pickett shoots Sawyer, no way will Jack save Ben. So Sawyer's safe.

Everyone is safe! What a GREAT cliffhanger!

My husband and I were cringing so hard during the Sawyer and Kate scene we couldn't even watch. This show is awful now, I do want to know some answers so I keep hoping it will get better but I don't think the writers get it from what I've read in magazine articles. Every week gets worse. I can't say I'll be paying attention in February.

You know what that episode was? That episode was the stuff that I imagine happening "between" the episodes.

Nothing happened.

Kate married somone while she was on the run? Wooohooo

They need to head to the other side of the Island to find out what is going on? Stop Traffic! We all could have told you that.

Jack decides to do the surgery after they threaten to kill Sawyer or Kate? No one could have seen that coming!

The last five minutes should have been the first five minutes of the next episode, that's about it. Every single episode is turning into filler and fluff.

What a complete joke, I am seriously contemplating whether or not I will be watching the show when it returns in February. They blew it with this one.

Seriously, they better wrap it up for all of the hardcore viewers that will stick around for answers in February. There won't be a whole lot of casual viewers left.

With all of the questions they have posed it will take about 12 episodes to answer them anyway.

...

While I only saw a few season 2 episodes at my daughters-along with finale and episode 1 and 5 from this season-I keep up reading the comments/synopsis on various sites. I have learned quite a bit about the real history behind the production of Lost along the way, and will be posting it soon. It is a tale far more interesting than what is happening onscreen, and goes a long way toward explaining the decline in the quality of the show at this point. There is a struggle for control behind the scenes still going on, and how it is resolved will determine whether or not there even is a season 4. From what I’ve read all over the web I’m glad I didn’t bother to watch tonight’s show. With all the posts about the shark being jumped having morphed into a whale, Moby Dick comes to mind. One problem with a hit show is everyone in Burbank wants to ‘fix’ it. Call me Ishmael.

I'm very much interested in hearing this Ishmael. Something is not right with the way the show turned 180 degrees around.

***POSTING AS A FAN NOT A MOD***

Is it possible to "Slingshot" the shark??

That was the single worst moment of any episode of LOST...a teenager..holding dozens of armed men at bay with a slingshot? Gads...


Dude! BD. Welcome to our world, member not posting as a mod.
Did this mean her way of getting to this other island or are you giving us a new jump-the-shark phrase aimed at LOST? ;)

I still don't know what the big cliffhanger was? It seemed like any normal episode ending to me.

you know what, i think ABC is wrighting the scripts. I mean how does Damon and Carlton go from wirting genious episodes such as duex ex machines, confidence man, the 23rd psalm, the other 48 days, exodus and hearts and minds to writing crap like we saw tonight. i smell a conspericy!

Everyone is safe! What a GREAT cliffhanger!
I laughed so hard that DangerDork's milk came out of my nose. It was quite painful.

Exactly.

What was the cliffhanger?

Maybe THAT is the cliffhanger. Us trying to figure out what the cliffhanger is.

Seriously, they better wrap it up for all of the hardcore viewers that will stick around for answers in February. There won't be a whole lot of casual viewers left.

With all of the questions they have posed it will take about 12 episodes to answer them anyway.

I've been saying that same thing for so long that I sound like a broken record. I will plan to tune in from now on when I'm home on a Wednesday night, but before I would make a point of being at home on Wednesday nights with nothing but Lost on the agenda. Not anymore. It's kindof getting like one of those soaps that you can tune into once every 6 weeks or so and catch right up. It was a GREAT concept and I do think it inspired other producers to come up with unique and creative ideas for prime time TV. But, alas, it has gone the way of "Happy Days". Pretty soon the good actors on Lost will start bailing like Ron Howard did before the Fonz jumped the shark.

And is it just me, or did the scenes between Kate and Sawyer seem really forced? I know their scenes together usually flow well, but none of the scenes tonight were at all natural. The chemistry just seemed way off, like the actors knew what they were doing was beyond cringe-worthy.

What's been bugging me most about this show is the clumsy clumsy characterisation of the Losties in general. It always bugged me that they just sat around like complacent sheep playing Sim Gilligan's Isle while their fellows are abducted and murdered and monstered and blown up and so forth... nobody seems interested in the power cable, the underground hatches, the GIANT BOAT in the jungle... these people aren't Lost, they're morons.

Since Hurley's return, has anyone asked him where Michael went? Has anyone bothered to find out that the Island has a dock and a boat? Has Hurley seemed remotely upset that his girlfriend was murdered by his trusted ally?

The Prisoner was a good show, because the protagonist was an intelligent, active participant in events that befell him. Sure, he was thwarted at every turn, but his captivity was driven and informed by the cleverness of his captors, not by his own self-induced stupor. The fans crying for the Losties to do something worth cheering for don't want to see the Others all die horribly; they just want an interesting conflict to follow. What they're getting instead has been tantamount to watching a retarded kid getting punched in the stomach by a lineup of bullies at recess. It's bordering on pornography, it's tiresome.

Character driven drama like this one has to have characters that you either hate or love in order to sustain interest. We don't know enough about the Others to really hate them, and the protagonists aren't invested enough in their own situation to ask us to get invested with them. What we're left with is a vague interest in some mysteries that won't be solved anytime in the forseeable future. We'll go on with our lives, buy houses, have children, get new jobs, return to school, and the Losties will still be stuck in stupidville.

This show is getting so we could just go and watch the season recap and we wouldn't miss anything. Hell, it's getting so we could not watch it and we wouldn't miss anything.

The episode was decent!. ABC blew it BIG time though. The only scene that I didn't see in that episode was the damn last 6 minutes. YOU RELEASED WAY TOO MANY PREVIEWS. I felt like I watched the whole episode already. The only thing this episode did was put the previews in order. I'm really annoyed with that. You gave away that ENTIRE episode aside from the last 5 minutes. ABC please don’t do that again.


That Kate flashback WAS USELESS. ABC please don't play another flashback of a character we already know. Seriously all that Kate flashback did was kill time. GET RID OF THEM FOR OUR KNOWN CHARACTERS!!!

It was my least favorite this season. Their hype has betrayed us!

I was soooooo hoping that the moronic sex scene would lead to both Kate and Sawyer being offed by the Others. And Sawyer used to be my favorite character.


Flushhhhhhhh

this is posted on that chick kristens blog about tonights episode:

Are you counting the minutes till Lost's big "fall finale"? Well, you should be! 'Cause tonight's episode has more than a few squeal-worthy happenings, like Kate finally making her "choice"; Kate revealing a secret past no one knows about (that involves Firefly star Nathan Fillion); and perhaps the most integral to the overall plot development: Jack's decision whether to save the life of Ben, aka Michael Emerson

squeal worthy? what exactly the number of commercials that make you wanna squeal

kate revealing a secret past no one knows about?!? LOL ROLOLODOLODLSDOLO HAHAHAHAHAH

*cough* WE KNEW ABOUT IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

and jacks choice about ben's operation...


well well.


she's spot on with all of her info. she usually is, but this is just sad.

I am so glad the story and mythology was left completely unnattended while we got to watch Kate sleep around in Island-Time AND in Flashbacks. [/sarcasm]

Usually this show has done a decent job of pandering to both kinds of viewers that either (a) care about the character drama, or (b) care about the sci-fi mythology. This episode pandered to "(a) character drama" exclusively.

What a soap opera, Kate sleeping with someone in flashbacks and island-time?

I know I don't speak for just myself in saying that this is NOT why I watch this show, anyone who loved this episode watches "Passions" on a weekly basis as well.

PS I just watched the sligshot scene again, if you have a Tivo or some way to watch it again, do so. Just for the sake of unintentional comedy. It is the nost hilariously contrived scene to ever grace primtime television.

how did this happen?

and when i think of season 1&2 there's def a different vibe going....it doesn't feel like the same show at all. Could it be that JJ is back writting the shows? or maybe too much influence from the studios or ABC? Production wise the show still looks great. its the content thats really lacking.

Okay I never post, but I hated this episode so much I just had to share my hatred. I have been such a loyal viewer since Lost first aired, making excuses for the show whennever I heard others complaining about the show in the past. But every since Season 3 started, each episode gets worse and worse....are Abrams, Lindelof, and Cuse contributing anymore??? Or they'res just on crack! If I wanted to watch love triangles and sex I'll just watch Desperate Housewives or Grey's Anatomy instead. And the climax????? Where was it???!!! The entire Sawyer/Kate romance was spoiled on the previews a long time ago. I don't know if I can handle anymore of this nonsense. :mad:

Eko's burial had less dignity then Shannon's (what happened to the Boone level of deaths?), Evie and Josh seemed very against Skate and their acting was kind of cringeworthy as a result (many people have noticed), and the over hyped 'gonna blow your mind' ending was ... well ... nothing TOO special. Am I meant to want the murdering con man to be okay? Because quiet frankly, I don't care.
Plus, I kind of hated Kate a little bit for doing that to Jack, I mean he carried her on his freaking back to save her life and she stared into his eyes in her last moments of freedom ... And we are meant to swallow that she'd have sex with Sawyer, where is her dignity? "He understands me!" Puh-leese, after the way he treated her I felt kind of ill watching it. And Skate was suppose to be shocking? Uh, we've known since summer when you released a promo of them kissing!

Damon and Carlton got the writing credits on this one, first time in a while if I'm not mistaken.

they need Javi

Baaaaaaaaad move Cuse and Lindeloff
Baaaaaaaaaaaad move and baaaaaaaaaaaad episode.....
and you expect us to tune back in February when you leave us this???
9 out of 10 fans are extremely dissapointed.

I'm an unrepentant lurker, but after watching this drivel I slogged through ten 'the server is too busy' messages to register an account just so I could chime in with the disappointment.

Why do all of the characters act like incomprehensible monkies? I'm beginning to think the big 'mystery' of the island is that it's a Darwinian setup to cleanse the world of the truly special brand of idiocy everyone there seems to possess.

Watching a teenage girl take down a troop of armed guards with a slingshot was bad enough, but watching the Grizzled-Other-with-a-Gun talk her down with fear in his eyes as if she were holding a detonator instead of a ruddy stick with a rubber band tied to it was so dumb it hurt me inside.

And obviously whatever STD Sawyer gave Kate inhibits higher brain function, since they stayed in the bloody cage all night with the door open even though Sawyer was supposed to be killed the next morning. Awesome!

Sayid apparently has monster-amnesia, the Jesus-Stick-telegram was laughable, and Mr. Eko deserved better. Only Jack still seems to display any sort of intelligence, but I'm sure they're just waiting until February sweeps to give him his lobotomy. But I won't be sticking around to see it.

wait three months for what?

thanks for zip

Lurker, but reader for quite some time:

Aside from the OVERKILL on Kate's useless flashbacks and my overall disappointment, why DIDN'T THE OTHERS JUST TURN THE TABLES ON JACK AND SAID, "YOU HAVE ONE HOUR TO PATCH BEN UP OR WE'LL KILL KATE AND SAWYER!!!"......geeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeez:confused::mad:

I swear to Christ, I just do not care anymore. I devoured the first season is damn near one sitting -- I scarfed it down because I am, like many others, a sucker for intellectually rich entertainment. And in a cultural age as bereft and barren as this, I pounced all over the show, thinking it would be a live-action replacement for the Dark Tower (which also let me down in the end), the mythological master work I'd been reading my entire life.

As a result of my border-line obsession with the show, I know many things about the show's creation and ongoing development that undeniably support my final verdict which I issue tonight:

Season 1 was a fluke. The show, straight up, ACCIDENTALLY was good the first year. Every character except for Kate was either heavily re-designed after being cast, or outright made up on the spot after the casting process to suit well-liked actors and actresses. Jack wasn't even supposed to survive the pilot. All that was known by JJ and Damon as of 2 months before SHOOTING was--quite simply--'plane crash with a twist'. Locke in a wheelcheer was a last-minute 'wouldn't it be cool' idea (the first of many) thrown into the mix without knowing anything about it. The actors were great, Fury and Javi slam-dunked many key episodes, and the entertainment void of reality TV provided the perfect framework for all of us to be willing to buy what they were selling: a giant, genre-transcending mystery with everything already all figured out. GUARANTEED! 'No way we're making this up,' they said. Well, they were. They are. Think about the first season: all they had to do was pile on more and more intrigue to make sure additional seasons would be bought. 'We'll make it work down the road,' they thought. 'We're geniuses.'

Small problem though: all the writers that can write either left the show or forgot how (I can only guess), and Damon, Cuse and JJ started thinking the show was all about breaking rules and not following them. Rules such as resolution or even cohesion. And, for some bizarre reason, they started responding to random, non-important fan complaints, such as 'why isn't Hurley losing any weight?' Well, the obvious answer to that is, no matter what drastic diet they're on, the human body doesn't burn more than about 1-2 pounds a day unless there's exercise involved, and when someone weighs almost 400 pounds, you're not going to notice much weight loss after 30 days. But moreover, it's a show! They should have just asked Jorge to lose as much weight as he could inbetween seasons and people would have just overlooked it. As it stands, I believe he's lost damn near 50 pounds or so already, which is entirely feasible for the 70 days they've been on the island, especially considering no one has ever come close to starving, what with endless fruit and boar. But no! For some reason, this issue had to be dealt with. Hence, Hurley's been hoarding food, thus totally betraying his character (the nicest, most loyal one of the entire group), and taking away a lot of what made him cool in Season 1. His battle was never with his weight--his battle was with INSANITY. That's what made him interesting. The fact that he didn't seem to think about his own appearance much was what made him such an endearing character.

It didn't stop there, though. Hurley should have a girlfriend, the fans say! OK, let's give him one. We hate Shannon! OK, we'll kill her. We like Desmond! OK, he'll be a regular from now on, and we'll give him tons of backstory. We also think Henry Gale is neato! Cool, well guess what? He's the leader of the Others and he's got a whole story too! (Never mind that the whole point of the Others--we THOUGHT--was the guy with the beard and why he wanted Walt. And why Ethan wanted Claire. Others camp is all about....Henry?) We want Locke to be cool again! OK, we'll basically have him blatantly declare on-screen, "I'm sorry for not being cool! I'll do better from now on!" and on and on and on.

Coupled with the painfully obvious flaws in dialog quality, narrative plausibility, style, hell--just plain poor ideas with which to fill the gaping hole of a mythology which they dug themselves, what do we have left? Well....episodes like this one.

It's over. Expect more of the same. There's no point in continuing to watch to find out the 'answers'--there aren't any. When they do come out, they'll have been made up on the spot just like everything else. And quite poorly. Just make up your own answers, they will be more satisfying, and I guarantee, more creative than whatever this show will eventually upchuck for us. And now, from the geniuses that brought you "Kate Chooses Sawyer" and "Yes, The Button Does Something": "The Island Is A Nexus Of Magic-netic Energy And That's Why Wierd Stuff Happens There!" The End.

There's no reason to suffer through this piss-poor writing anymore. Even if, at some point, they brought in people who would actually have the Nobel Prize-winning brainpower to write this show in some intelligent fashion and plausibly explain all of the nonsense that's happened so far, it would be impossible to give ourselves over to the show again in the way we did during the first season. We've seen into the eye of the island--and saw whatever the writers thought would be cool this week. Nothing beyond.

There's not even a stick, let alone a carrot.

I'm not a smart guy. For two seasons I watched so hard my eyes dried from not blinking. I wished, or was it fantisized?,that I could catch all the referrences and haul *** over to the Fuse and post a "did ya see that!??!" But I couldn't and there was always someone else with a way cooler theory. Yeah yeah, misery loves company but this seasons episodes, especially "I Do" have made me feel quite sharp. I spotted all the crap just like all the rest of yous. I am reminded of when I was a child watching Scooby Doo and figured out the caper. "I would of gotten away with it if it wern't for those meddling kids!"
I just have to keep reminding myself that I have not got smarter. The show is just dumber.

There are no words in the English language that can describe the demise of what once was one of the most brilliant shows ever created. Tonights episode was the absolute worst and has proven to me as a viewer what direction this show is going. I agree with every compliant that has already been stressed. Watching this season has felt like one of Sawyers cons, putting it in LOST terms.

I really have a hard time believing Abrams and Lindleoff just woke up one day and forgot how to tell the story. My guess is sometime last year when the ratings began to slide some "Suit" decided it was in the shows best intrest to get away from all the things that made LOST amazing in the first place. Instead they wanted to intergrate romance and love triangles along with hokey action adventure tales that seem to arc a few episodes if not one just to keep peoples attention spans. They are not letting the story unfold instead they are forcing dynmaics into the show that have no place...i.e. turning LOST into a medical/OC type drama. The fact that the previews and hype for the show had a focal point of "who does Kate choose" should tell you someting. I dont give a flying you know what about who she chooses, its mundane and anti-climactic. If the majority of people are tunning into to see this resolution then LOST has gone horribly wrong.

It seems they wanted to take all the sci-fi and darker mysteries out of the equation in an attempt to capture more viewers to win this stupid ratings war. They have dumbed down the show beyond belief and removed any continuity which is vitally important on a show like LOST. Important things from season 1 are still unanswered and have essentially been removed because new viewers won't get it or remember it. This show does not have the same feel and flow as it did circa season 1 and 2. The most glarring fact is by turning the show into what it is now the "Suits" have taken the seperation that Lost had on other shows and lumped them back into the giant mess that turns people away from network TV to begin with. I just can't believe we have gone from cliffhangers of the finding the hatch to what we saw tonight.

By reading through this its seems like the "core audience" is about to jump ship. If that happens this show is done. In fact I think its time to stick the hobnail boot in it myself because after seeing the previews I foresee more of the same come Feb. I just don't care like I used too and either do my friends that I got hooked on the show. Apathy is setting in everywhere and if LOST doenst self evaluate it self soon and let the writers take the show where they want to take it (whoever bizarre and scientific it may be) this expirement will go down as one of the biggest flops in TV history.

That episode was practically boring. What a disappointment that this is our send off for 3 months without LOST. The epi was predictable, far from illuminating, and gave us nothing new to "chew" on for the next 3 months. Well maybe one thing - it seems like Miss Alex may be Ben's pseudo daughter.

Oh yeah...Will Sawyer die? Yeah, right. He's one of the main characters of the show and the only reliable source of comic relief. Don't see it happening. What about Ben? Nah, he'll be around for the rest of the season at least - maybe longer. He still has story to tell.

This was my least favorite (can you tell?) episode of season 3 this far - and probably one of my least favorite of the show overall.

Sawyer's whole - there's nowhere to run contention - what was that? It's a good sized island - take off - hide - plan - think it through OUTSIDE THE CAGE. It's almost like someone whispered to him - stay in the cage at all costs because Kate will come over and "keep you company." Red Rover, Red Rover - let Kate come over.

Ben is a clever, pevish child in a man's body. (Love the actor btw.)

I sure hope the episodes in Feb. pick up steam fast. and I hope Juliet shoots PIckett on the beach

Wow.

I wish it were possible to say this episode simply "Jumped the Shark", but I can't.

Instead, I can only describe "I Do" as the moment "Lost" not only imploded, but threw itself (and most likely a huge number of the fans) under the bus before jumping the shark.

Two years of an often intelligent, poignant show has been incomprehensibly thrown in the crapper. Are the people responsible for the first six episodes of season three even remotely familiar with the previous forty-eight episodes?

What an utter catastrophe. Everyone knows Kate is no Mary Poppins, but at least she had some honor, and some dignity. I'm by no means a shipper, but all the nonsense with Sawyer came out of the clear blue sky. Sex in a cage, while being taped, with a guy who has dumped all over her for two seasons? Not only has the show thrown the viewers under a bus, they've thrown Kate under it too.

"Lost" was one of two shows on TV that I bothered to follow over the last several years. Sadly, "I Do" was the series finale for me. I wouldn't be surprised if this episode is looked back upon as the hour that killed what was once a thoroughly entertaining and rather promising show.

I won't be tuning in again.I totally agree. I'm seriously questioning returning at all in Feb.

How did Jack's move change anything? Here's how I imagine it should have gone, logically:

Others "do the surgery or we will kill Kate and Sawyer."

Jack "hey I just sliced his kidney open! What do you think about that?"

Others "Uh, well, we'll take that as a 'NO', now we are going to kill Sawyer and Kate."

Jack "... did I mention that I had a slingshot?"

Others "no you don't"

Jack "damn"

Wow. There's 40 minutes of my life I'm never getting back. I say this because there was a whopping two minutes of "stuff that actually happened" in the episode. Oh, and what a riveting cliff hanger that was. Does anyone really think Sawyer is in danger? Or that Jack is actually going to let Ben die on the table? Please. I don't throw around this phrase lightly, but this was the first episode that truly insulted my intelligence. This is the brilliant episode the writers plotted out knowing full well it would be a mini-season finale and the lasting image for viewers over a 3 month hiatus?

I read an interview with Lindelof and Cuse on tvguide.com earlier today and I have to say those two have never sounded more patronizing. Here's a quote that illustrates perfectly the disconnect between the people that make Lost and the viewers here that are frustrated.

From Damon Lindelof: We believe audiences aren't really asking, “When are we going to get our answers?” They're asking, "Are we going to get our answers?" And that's a very savvy question for them to be asking, because of the nature of the television business, it's sort of like, "Are they just stringing us along?" And all Carlton and I can say is that we are absolutely committed to giving you those answers. We know what the answers are, and we're telling them in the most creatively satisfying way for us as storytellers.

http://www.tvguide.com/News-Views/Columnists/Ask-Ausiello/default.aspx (full article)

Well, despite Mr. Lindelof's assumptions, frankly I think there's a ton of people who are asking "when" in regards to the answers. Though I guess these guys probably know who their core audience by now. Tonight's fall finale was a giant coming out party that I'm sure had the Jaters and Skaters frantically pacing around for hours.:rolleyes: Literally, Lost essentially came out to its viewers tonight and after all the speculation we can at least not wonder anymore. "Look, viewers, I have something really important to tell you. I'm.... I'm a soap opera. There, I said. I'm a high-budget soap opera. I know this must be confusing since the last couple of weeks I've been running around talking about fate and destiny... and hanging out with that black smoke monster, but rest assured I'm completely, one hundred percent a soap opera."

Ironically the only character not coming off like a soaps actor is Jack, the actor whose previous credits largely consist of soap opera TV. When he found Sawyer and Kate.... cuddling.... oh, god... I just threw up in my mouth a little... Anyway, when I saw that scene I actually appreciated Mathew Fox's look of disdain that he gave into the wall of monitors because it summed up my feelings for this horrific episode and the series in general.

I really have not had major gripes so far this season with the show, but tonight was just awful. The episode itself wasn't exactly horrible...I just can't believe this was a cliffhanger episode. I can't believe they expected this cliffhanger was on the same caliber as Ethan kidnapping Claire and Charlie in Season 1, or the "Others" taking Walt. This episode seemed more of a "filler" episode that usually occurs mid-season. I don't feel like anything has really moved forward since the first episode of this season. So we discovered the "Others" are on a separate island (not extremely far away from the main island) with Jack, Kate, and Sawyer. My thought is "who cares?". This really does not add much of anything to the story for me. I miss some of the feelings of Season 1 but what I miss more is not finding out anything until the last 4 episodes of a season only to be presented with new questions which won't be answered until the last 4 episodes of the following season.

I love Lost, I think it is one of the best TV shows in history. It has the best character development I've seen in TV but that is not enough to carry the show. We watch for character development and answers to the mysteries. Season 1 was phenominal and certainly made it the best show in TV history, but with Season 2 and so far 3, it has brought it down a few notches. I don't know if it is because many writers from Season 1 have left, or what the deal is. I'm also sick of the "love triangle" storyline. I really don't care who Kate picks or what she does with Jack or Sawyer. I think it is nice if these characters find love on the island and have love for other characters because that is part of human nature, but I hate for it to become the whole plotline and main focus of episodes.

I just had to register to say that tonight's episode might have been the worst episode of lost yet. It was truly awful, and a terrible way to end a 'mini' season. As others have pointed out Kate and Sawyer having sex in the cage was cringe worthy, the entire flashback part of the episode was redundant and the slingshot scene was so ridiculous it was funny. They spent more time showing Kate getting it on (not a bad thing in and of itself) than things that actually matter...like the "monster" etc.
Absolute sh*te.

Eko's burial had less dignity then Shannon's (what happened to the Boone level of deaths?), Evie and Josh seemed very against Skate and their acting was kind of cringeworthy as a result (many people have noticed), and the over hyped 'gonna blow your mind' ending was ... well ... nothing TOO special. Am I meant to want the murdering con man to be okay? Because quiet frankly, I don't care.
Plus, I kind of hated Kate a little bit for doing that to Jack, I mean he carried her on his freaking back to save her life and she stared into his eyes in her last moments of freedom ... And we are meant to swallow that she'd have sex with Sawyer, where is her dignity? "He understands me!" Puh-leese, after the way he treated her I felt kind of ill watching it. And Skate was suppose to be shocking? Uh, we've known since summer when you released a promo of them kissing!Exactly Pinjo...It was cruel enough to make Jack watch that but I've seen promo shots he is put in the same cage the woman he loves had sex??? What kind of writing material is this?
I don't even recognize Kate & watched positively dumbfounded as her character was stripped of her dignity as well as her clothes.The loving/tender relationship of Jate had a great scene in the Hydra but ultimately it felt disregarded & trounced upon with the way things happened. I'm half expecting Jacket sex next & then a Kate is pregnant storyline.

How is that a cliffhanger? What? What, exactly, is hanging from the figurative cliff? Not Jack, he's in a position of power. Not Kate, she's being let go. Maybe Sawyer, if Pickett just decides to up and kill him, but, really, wouldn't he have already shot him? Besides, if Pickett shoots Sawyer, no way will Jack save Ben. So Sawyer's safe.

Everyone is safe! What a GREAT cliffhanger!


EXACTLY. The 6 episode arc led to this? This was the best they could do? Pathetic.





this is posted on that chick kristens blog about tonights episode:

Are you counting the minutes till Lost's big "fall finale"? Well, you should be! 'Cause tonight's episode has more than a few squeal-worthy happenings, like Kate finally making her "choice"; Kate revealing a secret past no one knows about (that involves Firefly star Nathan Fillion); and perhaps the most integral to the overall plot development: Jack's decision whether to save the life of Ben, aka Michael Emerson

squeal worthy? what exactly the number of commercials that make you wanna squeal

kate revealing a secret past no one knows about?!? LOL ROLOLODOLODLSDOLO HAHAHAHAHAH

*cough* WE KNEW ABOUT IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

and jacks choice about ben's operation...

well well.

she's spot on with all of her info. she usually is, but this is just sad.



Kristen is one of many "media sources" (like TV Guide, and Entertainment Weekly) that benefit from singing the praises of Lost no matter how stupid the show gets. Praising Lost sells magazines and brings viewers to web sites. If they were to be discussing how much Lost sucks, they would anger the fans they want to attract to their "product".








PS I just watched the sligshot scene again, if you have a Tivo or some way to watch it again, do so. Just for the sake of unintentional comedy. It is the nost hilariously contrived scene to ever grace primtime television.


If you really want a good cringeworthy laugh, watch the slingshot scene, Eko getting tossed around like a cartoon by the Bugs Bunny smoke hand, and Locke taking care of business with the polar bear with the hairspray. Three embarrasing scenes sure to invoke a good laugh.







And obviously whatever STD Sawyer gave Kate inhibits higher brain function, since they stayed in the bloody cage all night with the door open even though Sawyer was supposed to be killed the next morning. Awesome!

Sayid apparently has monster-amnesia, the Jesus-Stick-telegram was laughable, and Mr. Eko deserved better.


First off, the phrase "Jesus-Stick-telegram" is hilarious. And you're absolutely right about the open cage. Kate tearfully screams she'll do anything to keep Sawyer from getting killed. Gee, well, how about walking out of the cage and hiding when you had the chance? STUPID. IDIOTIC. CHARACTERS.

Most of the glaring stupidity has already been pointed out (Sex and the Slingshot as I've been calling this episode, useless flashbacks etc.) and I'm 100% with you guys on this. I read all of the threads so I can't remember who said it but basically these six episodes could have been boiled down to three or four easily.

It seems like every episode is just drag @$$ filler with about 15% substance. I don't want to say that I liked this episode because I only liked about ten minutes of it. The rest was horrid. It used to be that the whole episode was good. Charachter interaction of a great cast, mysteries, excitement, good times. Now, the flashback thing has seriously run it's course. If the FB isn't telling us anything significant don't bloody waste our time or your money filming it.

Sadly enough, I'm actually looking forward to february. Yeah, I know, sucker. Ben is the man and there are enough question marks that have their hook in me but if Ben had died this episode (I'm thinking he will soon after the show comes back) I'm not sure if I would give a damn.

It's over, folks. Lost is done. And I don't know about you, but now that this horror of a mini-season is over, more than anything, I'm relieved.

If they're back for a 4th season, I'll be shocked. Heck, I'll be shocked if Lost manages to cling to its coveted Wednesday night time-slot for the rest of season 3. I wouldn't be at all surprised to find it moved to the Friday night graveyard slot before the season plays out, where all doomed shows go to die in obscurity.

I felt it coming over the summer with the Experience, but I held on. When the Experience started revealing all the Dharma/Hanso mythology, I got scared. Because I began to understand that if they were revealing this stuff in the game, then this meant they were, without a doubt, going to abandon it on the show. The imploded Swan hatch we saw in Further Instructions cinched it.

I still hoped, however, that in place of the Dharma/Hanso stuff, TPTB might introduce a NEW LAYER of mythology - perhaps with the Others, perhaps with some as yet unknown island players. Something deeper. Something more sinister. Something that might penetrate even deeper into the island secrets. That didn't happen.

"But, but..." say the fans still clinging to hope. "They have a plan. They'll get to it when they come back from break. Or in season 4. They'll get to it eventually, won't they?"

Whether or not TPTB ever do get back to telling the story they promised us in the first two seasons, the question they need to be asking themselves now is, "Will anyone give a crap by then?"

I don't even know what to say about this episode. Jack was it's only saving grace. Everything Skate related went too far and is so forced down my throat that I didn't hesitate flipping the channel. :migrane:

I know, this is the didn't love it thread, and no debate, all that fun stuff.

But i think the point you happen to miss with this is, They can run all they want. They still don't have a way off the island, and Jack doesn't know that. So really, how safe are they?

How does it qualify as a cliff-hanger if we, the audience, already know that Kate and Sawyer CAN'T get off the second island? Not a whole lot of suspense there. It's only a cliff-hanger for Jack.

I don't even recognize Kate & watched positively dumbfounded as her character was stripped of her dignity as well as her clothes.The loving/tender relationship of Jate had a great scene in the Hydra but ultimately it felt disregarded & trounced upon with the way things happened. I'm half expecting Jacket sex next & then a Kate is pregnant storyline.
I'm no Jater or Skater, and I stand by that. I've said it from day one, I don't care about niether. I'm all for PB&J, love the Charlie/Claire love and that's about as much as I ship when it comes to Lost (But I won't spit at a little Sun/Jin dynamic either).
But I couldn't help rolling my eyes at Kate. I'm all for her picking Sawyer, more power to the Skate's, but not like this. Days ago she was rolling her eyes at him and his sexist comments, weeks ago she saw him con her, expose her, abuse and almost kill an innocent boar infront of her. Now she's getting all naked for him! :eek2: Frued would go crazy with all the Wayne connections. But I don't get it, and I don't 'get' Kate for choosing him this way. I found it disrepectful to her character. Season one Kate wouldn't pull that crap.
My reaction: What the hell, Kate?!?

Bottom line: Shoot Sawyer, and then turn the gun on Kate. At the moment I don't care much for either. But they ain't gonna do that, because Kate and Sawyer are apparently meant to be more worthy then Shannon or Eko.

I loved Lost, but this episode has me spinning. What are they playing at? But what annoys me, is that if the writers or producers see this, their reaction is: Fine! Don't watch it! We don't care!
But it's like, gee, is that the thanks for supporting them for all these years? Nice...

THE BEST EPISODE!

OF THE YEAR!


is what the commercial promised us, word for word. ..what the hell?

I've been rewatching season one recently (for the tenth time or something silly like that). This show was f**cking incredible back then. Now, though... it's, well, not.

This episode was ok. I didn't hate it. But the main thing that's confusing me is that since the end of season two, Damon and Carlton KNEW that there'd be a mini-season of six episodes. They knew it before the summer hiatus. They actually wrote this episode knowing that it would serving as the "fall season finale" that would be followed by a thirteen week break.

What were they thinking? The only answer I can come up with is that they SERIOUSLY overestimated the importance of the love triangle. A season finale is where you pull out all the stops. You HAVE to, or else you risk losing a huge number of viewers who simply won't bother to tune in next year. That's why big action-packed edge-of-your-seat season finale's exist.

They'd have an excuse if this was a network decision that they didn't know of until it was too late. It'd be like ABC deciding to take a 13-week hiatus after 'Abandoned' from season two (although that episode had a better cliffhanger) or 'House of The Rising Sun' (which didn't have a cliffhanger, but was actually a beautiful hour of television). Those episodes probably wouldn't have been huge enough to bring back the viewers after the three month break.

But... Damon and Carlton specifically WROTE THIS EPISODE to be the fall-season finale.

WHY?!

I simply can't understand how Damon f**cking Lindelof (writer of such episodes as the Pilot, 'Confidence Man', 'Deus Ex Machina', 'Exodus', and was the co-show-runner for season one, the best season of dramatic television ever produced) wrote this. This is Damon pulling out all the stops? What happened, man? Seriously?

I'll be back in February, because I'm commited to this show, TV is free to watch, and no matter how much they destroy the incredible foundation they're working from, I have an attachment to this island and it's characters. But, for a show where the week waiting for the next episode used to be torturous, this 13-week break is going to be disturbingly easy to take.

Could someone put in an order for a couple hundred new chairs? It'll get awfully crowded in here, so many new faces :)

They said after these 6 episodes the whole threesome in captivity bit would be over and we'd get back to life on the beach. How's that going to happen?

After the episode was over, I said to my husband - "Well, that's it, this show has completely lost its way." He agreed. This episode only made worse the continued exceesive focus on Jack, Kate, and Sawyer. You know, there ARE other people on the island that crashed in that plane.

The show was ok, but LOST is losing its way. The first two seasons held you over till the next show, I am losing interest which is sad because I love the story.

the kate flashback was just stupid and added nothing to the story. Who cares if she was married.

First post. Sad that it has to be in this thread. I feel totally gypped by this episode, and really, the whole mini-season.

What happened to Lost? Do TPTB read these threads? I hope they do, because they'd better listen to us. They're going to lose their core audience, and that's all they've got left.

I even take notes and keep up, yet it's getting a bit convoluted for me as well. This is the first time in three seasons I've posted in this thread, and feel compelled to now. What a disappointment. Yeah, there were some nuggets to chew on (who is Jake? Alex's relationship to Ben), but this morning I'm having coffee and will actually start working (Fuselaging is usually my thing on Thursday mornings!).

I didn't do The Lost Experience over the summer, though I did read Bad Twin. I have enjoyed our little glimpse into Others culture, but want to get back to Dharma, Patchy, where are the children?, other hatches, etc. I miss the numbers! I miss the connections. I actually miss someone taking on the task of pushing the button.

"I Do" left me flat. I'm looking forward to the ABC podcast . . . there has been so much arrogance out of Carlton and Damon, and up until last night I thought it was warranted and they were untouchable TV writing rock stars. Keep writing, guys, and get us away from the Hydra. Kill off Paulo and Nikki too. Let's go to The Black Rock, The Flame, find Patchy, give us an Others flashback and move forward.

This is my FIRST time posting in the "eh" thread. I hated that cliffhanger, hold on a sec, what exactly was the cliffhanger? It left a bitter taste in my mouth knowing I got to wait till Feb. =(

Me too. Actually, this is the first time I've ever posted on any TV forum. I just registered to share my concern for the show. The last two seasons were fantastic! Something never seen on TV before. Lost was full of mystery, scifi, and drama -- now, in the last few episodes, it has joined the ranks of the daytime soaps. Last night's show was the worst, followed by last week's show which was the worst before that, and so on.

i usually don't post my thoughts, and i'm starting to think that i should.

part of the problem with this episode was the hype, and the other part is the fact that it won't be another three months until we discover the inevitably predictable conclusion of this shockingly predictable cliffhanger.

on it's own, it suffered from the typical issues i've had with the season thus far - obvious flashback scenario (complete waste of nathan fillion - i despise whedon, but his performance made firefly/serenity soar), back-and-forth "i'm going to kill him!" nonsense from danny (this has happened so many times in six episodes, the outcome was obvious)... also, how many scenes did locke and crew have, two? did we need them? put that last scene with eko's stick at the end of last week's and you've got a winner.

don't get me wrong... i was iffy on where the first season was going, as well as the second, and they paid off big time. i just expected a little payoff considering the schedule. what happened in this episode should have happened in the first twenty minutes. i mean, i'm not the guy who complains about lost being slow, but... a little slow this time around, aren't we?

Now, I've been here since the day the Fuse opened, and I have never once posted in this thread, because I've *always* found something I loved about each episode.

But "I Do" really P..'d me off. Sincerely, I was swearing at the TV at the end of this episode. Cliffhanger? Where? Oh, wait, you mean someone holding a gun on Sawyer. Gee, we haven't seen THAT before, have we?

. Locke's message about the island? Please. And the "end of the triangle?" Is that why Kate was yelling that she couldn't leave without Jack? Man, I am so disappointed I'm finding it hard to put in words.

Nothing, absolutely nothing about this episode did a thing for me. Yeah, Alex sure can knock people out with a sling shot. I laughed out loud at the idiocy of that.

I'm insulted.

Hopefully this episode marks the end of J/K/S heavy episodes. We can only hope that the writers actually listen to the fans and see that, quiet frankly, they can't carry the show all by themselves for very long. Jack's hero-ness is dull without the Locke factor, and Skate is cringeworthy with that soppy bloody music and rubbish.
Sun and Jin appeared in ONE episode so far. ONE. ONE. You know, as in the number of off island flashback's Claire has had. And the number of plot lines Charlie has had. And the number of decent lines Sayid has gotten.
I'd like to think our cries for the writers to reconsider don't go unnoticed... but that seems the fashion :( It makes me sad, because I do love this show and I just wish that the producer's where more like Marc Cherry from Desperate Housewives and listened when the fans said, "Dude, this really, really, really sucked".

Come on guys. I'm so sick of how you constantly drag the show on. It feels like Lost is turning into a bunch of cheap thrills instead of the Intelligent Mystery Show it was for the last two seasons. Season 3 so far has combined the worst elements of it's previous seasons.

For one, it gives us flashbacks that have no value rather then to fill the episode up, I've learned absolutly nothing about Jack, Sawyer, Kate, Eko or Sun and Kin, nothing that hasn't happened on the Island.

Then it gives us Jack, well Jack, you've been really annoying well since the Pilot, but now you just screw everything up. Hopfully Mr.Friendly will shoot Jack in the head while he's stiching Ben up and we can move on.

I've been a faithful fan of this show until Season 3, if the story doesn't pick up then I'm done.

Wow, so much to say except for the fact that I probably won't be back. lost has jumped the shark and it has become predictable and boring. So Kate and Sawyer finally get together, except Jack sees them together. :rolleyes: What next in the triangle? I'm not a nurse but I have always thought that when someone goes into defib, isn't there a short time before they go into full cardiac arrest and die? :yucky: This storyline was done so badly. Lost is going to need to get together with it's writers because it is going into CARDIAC ARREST

By far the worst episode of Lost I've seen. I had to keep reminding myself that this WAS lost and not some daytime soap. Overall, extremely disappointing. I'll be back in three months watching again, no doubt, but seriously, how can a show go from what it was to this? I'm gutted, absolutely gutted.

I'm just hoping they don't put us through another tragic melodramatic love scene like that again. I was sinking into my seat when that was on... I mean, come on... it felt so contrived. Here's hoping she finds out about Ana, ditches Sawyer and down goes the triangle for good.

I'd like to think our cries for the writers to reconsider don't go unnoticed... but that seems the fashion :( It makes me sad, because I do love this show and I just wish that the producer's where more like Marc Cherry from Desperate Housewives and listened when the fans said, "Dude, this really, really, really sucked".

I think the reality is that the writers had a great concept but just didn't have the creative writing and production talent to carry it off. I think we just have to accept it.

Simply put I was very disappointed. I have come to expect better from this show.:mad:

I know, this is the didn't love it thread, and no debate, all that fun stuff.

But i think the point you happen to miss with this is, They can run all they want. They still don't have a way off the island, and Jack doesn't know that. So really, how safe are they? I didn't report this post as 'baiting' because I don't think it is, so I hope the mods leave it. Rather, I look at it as an open invitation to enlighten.

I didn't miss the fact that they are on another island. I also didn't miss the fact that they have all the leverage, know where a stockpile of guns are, have access to not one, but two seaworthy vessels (sub & sailboat) on which to escape at least to the 'main' island. I didn't miss the fact that all Kate has to do is simply tell Jack that they're on another island in order for him to understand this fact, and if she doesn't tell him that, it's because the writers are artificially keeping Jack in the dark through some completely unbelievable contrivance of simply not having Kate tell him. There is no reason for Kate not to explain it to him, and there's every reason for her to tell him. So if the writers are at all worth their salt (which is VERY debateable), Kate will tell Jack about this minor setback.

And yes, it is a very minor setback. Like I said, there's a sub and a sailboat to choose from to escape The Hydralcatraz Station.

Neverminding that fact, since Jack is in charge now, there's nothing to stop Kate and Sawyer from disarming their captors, locking them in the cages (well, in Sawyer's cage, since Kate's is easily escaped), arming themselves to the teeth, and at least completely turning the tables on the Others.

They're on another island but in the long run (and even in the short run) this doesn't matter in the slightest! They're now in charge of that second island! Jack's got Ben hostage, and the rest of the Others seem unwilling to risk Ben's life. Therefore, J/K/S win! They get all the guns, lock everyone else up, and START GETTING SOME ANSWERS!

Start with the basics like:

"Who the heck are you people?"
"Why are you on this island?"
"Why did you kidnap Claire?"
"What did you do to Walt?"
"Why did you kidnap all the children?"
"Why do you keep terrorizing us?"

Then move on to bigger questions like:

"When can we expect the next food drop?"
"Where's the nearest fueling station (they have to have one to power a sub, you know)?"
"Where's your internet connection/telephone/method of communicating with the outside world?"

So you see, the fact that their on a slightly smaller island with some of the others is irrelevant, and hardly a problem. In fact, it's a distinct advantage! The Others now can't escape them, they can be conveniently locked up and monitored, they can be taken out of communication with, I can only assume, the rest of the Others on the mainland, and they can be made to tell you how they communicate with the outside world.

So instead of this being a problem, this is in fact their saving grace!

The only cliffhanger present is this one, and perhaps it was the intended one, I don't know:

Jack now has the power to save everyone and get them off of the island for good, but WILL THE WRITERS ALLOW IT?

There is now nothing standing in between the losties and their rescue ... except bad writing.

Answer me this, anyone who disagrees: What is to stop Jack, Kate, and Sawyer from taking all of the guns and locking everyone up? Hmm?

Last weeks episode was the episode that killed the show for me, but I am posting here just to get this thread as long as possible so that TPTB understand how badly they F'ed up lost. Needless to say, this episode was crap.

The alcatraz island plot is a mess. The only thing those characters should be doing there is sending out their resumes to find a new show to work on. I would blame them for overacting, but the lines and plot they have been given is just awful. Plus the sets look like they were made from tinfoil and cardboard. All I really have to say is that once the idea was introduced that the other had contact with the outside world and had the ability to leave the island, all their actions have been rendered pointless. I mean if you have cheeseburgers and the world series, you think you could import a decent spinal surgeon, and preferably not one you have been terrorizing pointlessly for the past two and a half seasons. And have the writers just forgotten about the whole thing with Claire's baby?

Further, did the writers even realize that Sayid was aware of the monster from season one (remember Danellie... or the whispers)? And if there is a monster (or polar bear), why the hell was everyone just standing around in a circle staring at the ground? I know if my friend was just brutally murdered in the middle of nowhere, I woundn't sit around and stair at his body for a hour, I would run the hell away. And what the hell was the point of Locke being so secretive about going to find the "jesus stick"? Why didn't he just tell everyone - hey I am going to go find Ekos magic stick with the pointless instructions on it? And if Desmond can see the future then... Whatever, there is absolutely no point in even asking these questions anymore.

The show is toast. And the saddest part of last night was that after the Kate/ Sawyer sex scene, I honestly wished that I was watching Daybreak.

That was not a cliffhanger. Too much is being done with only 3 characters. I hate to be one of those people...but I think the pacing needs to be stepped up a tad. It would also help to reassemble the Losties as a single group again. Them vs. the Others. Or some other plot device. Something. Anything. But enough already with the romantic angle...either show it to be a plan of the Other's to get Sawyer and Kate together or let it go. Again, there are more than 3 characters on the show...use them.

are some of you just completely missing the point about the Kate/Sawyer sex in a cage?? She thought it was her last chance to have some intimacy with Sawyer because she was sure he was gonna die and they do have some feelings for each other.***MOD edit for baiting***

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I think the problem with this ep, as well as the show in general is that people expect to actually be given answers, but throughout all seaosns, we are always left in the dark by the writers. it has been 3 years and we still don't know why they are there, or who the others are. Some insight as to who the "others" are in this ep would have improved it drastically
i think the people who have decided to stop wathcing lost after this ep are silly. i mean, the entire series has kept us i the dark, this episode was really no different in that sense. i truely have faith in the writers to redeem themseles coe February. lets wait and see.

To say I'm disappointed after the big buildup for this episode would be putting it mildly. Another flashback that does nothing to advance the plot is a waste of time. Sawyer's not wanting to try to escape and at least look for Jack and try to get out of there is ridiculous. Sawyer and Kate having sex in broad daylight in an open cage with who knows how many people watching them on a monitor is just disgusting, not romantic. And wouldn't you at least fix the crash cart before performing life-threatening surgery?

What a terrible way to end the mini-season. I'm not sure that "cliffhanger" will entice people to return in three months. As others have posted, just kill Sawyer off already because the constant threats to his life are becoming boring.

Didn't love it doesn't really say it enough for me. Let me rant here for a sec. Okay, I get it, Kate's on the run and it's hard for her to be a "loving relationship" WOW friggin'WOW...I really needed an update on that one...Thank you All Glorious Writers of Lost...you are wizards of the "been there". Is anyone else tired of Kate's storyline? I mean it's done...kill her off already...she's boring!!! All of Kate's episodes are!!! Anyway, I'm not one of the people that needs a mystery solved every week, I love the show, but this episode was the worse of the bunch, what happened to Sawyer, how did he go from such a badass to this whimpering little bitch??? Okay, both you and Kate had have some run-ins with some pretty shady folks, but you held at bay with two guys that are somewhat smaller than you and you can't get the best of them? Not buying it writers....Locke and his merry men bury poor Eko and then Locke "see's his quest" on the big stick of whoopass and then you don't see them anymore for the rest of the episode??? Thanks again writers. At least in this "cliffhanger" show them walking north and then cut-away. Jack holding everyone at bay, saying he's going to let Ben die, even though Nurse Betty want's him to die...saw it coming from the start....well, I have said enough...I will still watch the show...all the way to the end, but February is a long way off...

How does it qualify as a cliff-hanger if we, the audience, already know that Kate and Sawyer CAN'T get off the second island? Not a whole lot of suspense there. It's only a cliff-hanger for Jack.

Not even a cliff-hanger for Jack, just a bit of dramatic irony.

Poor Jack. I'm glad to finally see him doing something proactive, but really, why does he think in an hour's time Kate won't just recite her story to him from inside her cage with a .45 to her (and her grimy cage-lover's) head? It's not as if she has any strength of will left.

Overall, I wasn't too interested in finding out anymore of What Kate Did After What Kate Did. The flashbacks were an essential feature of getting to know the characters in S1; that's been accomplished. These writers just seem to be clinging to an outmoded feature which saves them from having to develop the island story - I've learned to dread the flashback sound effect, though I suppose it could serve as a useful cue for when to fast-forward.

When we come back in 13 weeks, do they really expect the casual viewer to remember that Locke read something on Eko's stick and decided to go North?

And I agree. That wasn't a cliffhanger. It was just this incredibly forced action. It's like everyone said "Oh crap! It's the end of the episode and nothing has happened. Somebody do something drastic!" so then JUST as stuff started to be set in motion...LOST.

An episode should have an arc within itself. That's what these writers are missing. The casual viewer should be able to tune in and get SOMETHING out of it. Maybe some sort of moral, lesson. Or at least watched a cool story. This episode was none of the above.

Nope..... This episode didn't do it for me.... What cliffhanger...??? So far this season just isn't living up to the last two.... Now I have to wait until Feb.7th to watch another useless back story...???

Look at my post count. Look at when I registered here. I started watching the show on Day 1 becauuse of Dominic Monagahan. I was a rabid LoTR fan and like many people just sort of followed him here. I hope that establishes some credibility!

I used to watch this Viet Nam era show called China Beach. It was great until it turned into a soap opera and I stopped watching. Believe it or not, Beverly Hills 90210 and Party of Five were actually good the first season. The first was the classic fish out of water story, the second was a bunch of kids trying to raise themselves; The stories were good... and then they turned into soap operas and I stopped watching. I watched the X-files and Northern Exposure for a long time because they did NOT degenerate into soap operas. Yes there was some shippy stuff in both of them but all that didn't take up most of the show!

I'm not demanding that the show go a certain way just to make me happy. That would be silly. Its not my show. I don't mind the shippy stuff in moderation. However tonight's episode has me wary and I admit I was very leery a few weeks ago when I learned about the Charlie and Claire triangle. I'm not a C/C shipper but I just know that I will not like this taking up screentime. We have had a triangle! More soap opera elements! Claire can pair up with Paulo who is an idiot or with Desmond. Oh..an ex-soldier who carries a torch for and a picture a woman back in the real world. We haven't see anything like THAT before on this show. Re-tread! :rolleyes: I really don't want TPTB to go there...but its not my show.

I realized that its come down to the only reason I'm watching this show is out of loyalty to Dom and that I like looking at Matthew Fox. The mysteries aren't enough to keep me here and the shippy stuff certainly isn't!

I'm really glad for the three month break. I can get this show out of my system..go see "We Are Marshall' in the theaters for a Matthew Fix, re-watch Lord of the Rings and keep an eye on the spoilers to see how this show is going to go.

I may or may not come back after the break. My Tivo will still pick up the episodes just in case I decide not to keep Wednesday night clear and my good friends who watch the show whose opinions I trust assure me that it would be worth it to watch a certain episode or if the TPTB would please either kill the idea of another triangle or keep the whole episode very brief and not let it become a soap opera. If it does..I am out of here.

Its been fun. I hope it can continue to be fun...but right now at this moment I can't say if I'm sticking with the show or not. I'l let you know after the three month 'detox'. :D

I laughed so hard that DangerDork's milk came out of my nose. It was quite painful.

Exactly.

What was the cliffhanger?

Maybe THAT is the cliffhanger. Us trying to figure out what the cliffhanger is.

LMAO! When the show ended I thought "what the heck is the cliffhanger"?

The writing has become so mediocre & predictable this season that it's borderline ridiculous. There have been some episodes in the past seasons I have disliked but found something redeeming about them. This one was a pure waste of my time. I've been a fan since the pilot episode but I'm just about ready to bail.

I personnaly now am convinced that one of the former biggest strenght of the show has become its biggest weakness. This being the flashbacks of course. It was a bright storytelling technique to establish the characters at first. Now the writers have to accept the fact that we fans, are interested in the Island(s) plot and that there is a lot of plotlines now open and too little time to cover them all. Plus the fact that there is a lot of commercials, so we basically get 42-44mins of show, minus the 15-20mins of flasbacks, you are left with a mere 20-25 mins of show to cover all the characters and plotlines on the island(s).

Sometimes you got to face the truth and just accept you need a change of formula. I say it is now time to get rid of the flashbacks or at least not have them every week. Lets have them once in a while for new characters or when it is plot relevant.

Its not a geeky complaint for the sake of complaining, its just that I find myself wanting the flashback part to end every week and cant wait for the story to move to the island action.

This is my first post, but I felt compelled to write, because last night's episode was an embarrassment. The love scene was soap opera-ish, and the writing was poor. It was as if the writers put a still shot of a sign saying "hey, this next bit of stilted dialogue is a clue, listen up."

The Jesus Stick; Benry asking if Alex asked about him; Jacob's list. It was as if these lines or parts of scenes were thrown in.

I love lost and will continue to watch, but I am really disappointed.

Prospero

Let me not,
Since I have my dukedom got
And pardon'd the deceiver, dwell
In this bare island by your spell;
But release me from my bands

Shakepeare's the Tempest

Up until Picket chambered a round just for dramatic effect in preparing to execute Sawyer...his gun was basically unloaded, otherwise a previously chambered round would have ejected. Get it straight Hollywood.

Patheticallyl, that's all I can muster.

Vertical, awesome post.

Now, as for the Skate scene...ack! I don't care how hot they might be -- I don't for a moment believe they'd do the nasty without showering first. Ew...just...ew.

Oh, I'm so glad I wasn't the only one struggling with the "ick" factor here. How many days since anyone's seen a toothbrush? Blech.

The only redeeming quality of the episode was that someone actually asked how Eko was killed, and then Sayid pursued it further (only one step further, but it's a start).

On the upside, I now have my Wednesday nights back, and I don't just mean til February. I used to be the fan who watched every frame unblinkingly, strained to hear every bit of audio. This season has been downright insulting for my kind. But ooh, Kate and Sawyer made loooooove! *gag*

when they didnt leave the open cage, it felt like one of those stupid fright, night movies like friday the 13th part 4million...

My wife wanted to know when they were going to have a pitch fork skewered through both of them.

I think that the basis of the show has changed from action, with symbolism worked in, to "Let's make sure every scene has symbolism, and we'll make everything else fit."

The more I think about every little scene, I can get what the writers were trying to accomplish, but the sad fact is, I don't think that they have the writers that can accomplish it.

I don't like how long the "skate" scene was. it could have ended when he pulled her dress up - that is called a "scene capper". Everything after that was awkward, and I went about my business around the house. Hell, it could have ended after the embrace. They had already blatantly said "they have sex". There was nothing else about the scene that was needed for the story, spare the "I love you" dialog, which was just tacked on, and could have happened about 5 minutes earlier.

For something so hyped for so long and spoiled by Kristin, I was completely disappointed. We know that Jack will complete Ben's surgery - he has to now to stay alive. They showed Kate and Sawyer escaping in the promo for February and spoiler have already told us that they were shooting a scene with Juliet for the new year! What cliffhanger? And talk about character assassination - Kate's been turned into a prostitute this season, nothing more. Put her in a dress, force her to bend over so Sawyer can get an eyeful, change in the cage....for that matter...have sex with the STD King in the cage for everyone to see! And I love Sawyer, but come on....sweet, cuddling Sawyer? Ewwwww. If I wanted to watch a bad soap opera, I'd turn on Passions.

Bethis(no longer)lost:frown:

First time I during these 3 years I feel cheated by Lost.

I'm a fan of Lost.

I watched most of season 1 in TV, then i switched to episode downloads so the advertisments wouldn't ruin the experience.

I was all happy! I enjoyed every single episode.

S3 opener could've been better, but I thought it was a good set-up episode where from the story could go anywhere.

Well, up until this episode, I thought the story is definitely going in the right direction, but this episode, 'I do' was...pathetic.

I just sat infront of my monitor, and I tried to calm myself 'It'll get better. Even if it won't there will be a huge cliffhanger'. I even tried to like it. But I just couldn't!

And I couldn't believe this was written by Damon Lindelof and Carlton Cuse.:frown: My favorite writers. They wrote one of my favorite single-hour episode too(2x14 One of Them).

Now this...

This episode was really just to please the shippers. And, to be honest, I hate all these stuff. I think ships ruin TV shows. For example, I couldn't stand the last episode of Prison Break either - it was full of forced romantic fluff.

So, I tell you this: the first 30 minutes were a complete waste of time. Flashbacks were even more pointless. They just felt ultra-forced...
The cliffhanger was nothing, the only thing that prevents me from saying that it sucked was the music. I think Michael Giacchino deserves alot for his scores. He was brilliant as usual, doesn't matter how bad the episode was.

Overall, this episode reminded me of 'What Kate Did'. The only exception was, that, WKD was saved by the amazing cliffhanger. This one... wasn't.

well, ***Mod edited*** i can definately say, none of these things annoyed me as much as the actual episode itself......i mean jumping the shark is nothing, i thought this show had a commitee of award winning writers all sitting around getting story arcs sorted and getting it all sorted, but then they seem to screw up every other episode, one week good one week bad, this one was terrible, i mean what is with kate and sawyer?!?! hell do you really think that would happen? even as hot as she is i can see myself attempting other things, and what is with, oh just why have they done this? JUST COME BACK IN FEBUARY WHEN YOU HAVE THINGS EDITED WELL, CUT OUT THE CRAP GO BACK TO WHEN IT WAS GOOD.

I keep saying this is my last post but I just had to support this thread one last time. I'm in shock that Banshee and Elfdream are in here.:eek2: I've been in the Fuselage for a long time too but have stayed mostly in the EH thread the past two seasons. Banshee has been the greatest supporter of Jack and Elfdream the greatest supporter of Charlie since day one. Seeing that they are ready to leave is a testament to just how bad things have gotten. I knew early on that the writers were flying by the seat of their pants but still watched anyway. I hung on even though they killed off one of my favorite characters (Boone) because I also loved Jack and all the mysteries (I'm not a shipper). This episode actually had me and my husband cheering since Jack finally got the upperhand. But the rest of the episode was crap. Forcing the K/S ship down my throat was enough to run me off. All the others had to do was threaten to kill Kate and Sawyer or just Kate in order to get Jack to operate on Ben. But NO. That would mess up the shipper story. Ugh!! I'm not that intelligent but this just really insulted what little intelligence I have. I truly hope that this show sinks in the spring. It's what they deserve. And by the way, my husband said that Sawyer and Kate deserve each other. Boy, is he right.:mad:

I keep saying this is my last post but I just had to support this thread one last time. I'm in shock that Banshee and Elfdream are in here.:eek2: I've been in the Fuselage for a long time too but have stayed mostly in the EH thread the past two seasons. Banshee has been the greatest supporter of Jack and Elfdream the greatest supporter of Charlie since day one. Seeing that they are ready to leave is a testament to just how bad things have gotten.

I thought it would shock a few people. I haven't really my mind but I have become seriously 'disenchanted' with the show. I am officially no longer a rabid hard core fan.

If the show goes down a soap opera path and if this episode is any indication of where things are headed...I am out of here.

If they pull back and regroup...I might give it another chance. We will see.

I also found the commercials beyond the pale.

I fast-forwarded through the commercials, the Kate/Sawyer scenes, and the Kate flashback. Which means I only wasted about 19 minutes of my life last night. And I missed absolutely nothing.

Every week I keep watching in hopes that somehow the writers will be able to pull a rabbit out of a hat and get the story back on track. Last night they hit an all-time low. :frown:

The only thing I liked about this episode was Jack. Hated the rest of it, hated it and I have never, never said that about an episode of Lost before. I'm so confused by Kate and her "choice". Something just doesnt seem right and forced.

I will be back in February still. This is my favoutite TV show after all and I'm not willing to give it up on it quite yet. I'm probably just not going to look forward to it as much any more :undecide:.

'tis a sad, sad day.

I thought it would shock a few people. I haven't really my mind but I have become seriously 'disenchanted' with the show. I am officially no longer a rabid hard core fan.

If the show goes down a soap opera path and if this episode is any indication of where things are headed...I am out of here.

If they pull back and regroup...I might give it another chance. We will see.


I'm a long time member here too (just don't post a lot) & I feel the exact same way. So far this season I have kept saying to myself "it will get better". I don't know how long I can continue to give myself pep talks! I'm very letdown by the quality of writing this season.

I almost don't feel like wasting any thought on this episode, so I'll let some quotes do the talking for me before I say anything:

There was a whopping two minutes of "stuff that actually happened" in the episode. This is the brilliant episode the writers plotted out knowing full well it would be a mini-season finale and the lasting image for viewers over a 3 month hiatus?

I actually appreciated Mathew Fox's look of disdain that he gave into the wall of monitors because it summed up my feelings for this horrific episode.

I really have not had major gripes so far this season with the show, but tonight was just awful. The episode itself wasn't exactly horrible...I just can't believe this was a cliffhanger episode. I can't believe they expected this cliffhanger was on the same caliber as Ethan kidnapping Claire and Charlie in Season 1, or the "Others" taking Walt. This episode seemed more of a "filler" episode that usually occurs mid-season.

I'm also sick of the "love triangle" storyline. I really don't care who Kate picks or what she does with Jack or Sawyer. I think it is nice if these characters find love on the island and have love for other characters because that is part of human nature, but I hate for it to become the whole plotline and main focus of episodes.

It was truly awful, and a terrible way to end a 'mini' season. As others have pointed out Kate and Sawyer having sex in the cage was cringe worthy, the entire flashback part of the episode was redundant and the slingshot scene was so ridiculous it was funny.

This episode was the definition of pandering to the lowest common denominator. The worst part of it was the hype going into it, I expected something that would blow me away and have me on the edge of my seat until February. There was seriously maybe 10 minutes of plot that I actually cared about this episode, and none of it consisted of the garbage that was cooked up to feed the shippers *gag*, or the redundant boring flashback (an insane waste of Nathan Fillion).

Tell me about it. Honestly, do the writers not know what a cliffhanger is? Just look at the word - "cliff" "hanger" - as in - a show ending with someone hanging off of a cliff, outcome uncertain.

The death of Eko contributed to that as well. I mean, we all knew that Sawyer was not going to bite it since Eko did just last week. So they have this drawn-out scene with Sawyer on his knees and Kate yelling "At least stand up!" or whatever inane comment it was and then Sawyer looking bravely into the eyes of Pickett... Yawn.

BTW nice posts today, Vertical, as usual!

I agree. I think they have different writers on the show this time. There seems to be no mystery like in season 2. We don't want to know everything at once. We want some mystery and suspense. I want to say, "Oh my God!" like I did in season 2 with all the suspense and what's going to happen next. Although I do think the last show was the best episode this year. There was some suspense in there. Is Sawyer going to die? How will they escape and get off that island?

That was the single worst moment of any episode of LOST...a teenager..holding dozens of armed men at bay with a slingshot? Gads...A rebellious teenagers dream episode? :)

Now, as for the Skate scene...ack! I don't care how hot they might be -- I don't for a moment believe they'd do the nasty without showering first. Ew...just...ew.That's why it's called doing the 'nasty'. hehe


I, for one, had lost faith during the second season, but I still watched the show because it was interesting. So, in season 3, my faith that the writers know what they are doing *as a whole* has not been restored, but overall the show is still "interesting". THIS episode however is *really* stretching my faith. I dislike Kate and went to work on other things during her flashbacks because I do not care about her at all. The ninja slingshotter was pretty hokey. The frequent negativity towards Sawyer when, he himself, has not done anything directly to the Others is getting on my nerves. AND, the lack of communication and question answering really gets my goat up!! :(

The X-Files was an awesome show that died a whimpering, miserable death because they shows producers and execs decided to milk it ep after ep without offering any closure or a sustainable arc.

I like others here have been an ardent fan, every ep multiple times, loved the intelligence and mystery, but this ep ended it for me. 2 1/2 years in, and they are still including veiled references to things that happened two years ago, without a single solid or sustainable answer. OK, there were some tanatalizing clues (i.e. Fenry-2 with glasses, how did Alex cross the english channel, etc. etc.) but I am tired of endless questions.

Someone earlier mentioned that Season 1 was an accident that it was so engaging, and season two tried to follow that mould. Season 3 has simply worn that mould out.

The mystery about Craphole Island is that Dharma and Hanso built a very top secret mechanism called "a built-in audience depletion mechanism", that will soon destroy the island, and all of its inhabitants careers.

Mad.Matt

I'm a long time member here too (just don't post a lot) & I feel the exact same way. So far this season I have kept saying to myself "it will get better". I don't know how long I can continue to give myself pep talks! I'm very letdown by the quality of writing this season.


I could not, could not, agree with both of you more.

I keep saying this is my last post but I just had to support this thread one last time. I'm in shock that Banshee and Elfdream are in here.:eek2: I've been in the Fuselage for a long time too but have stayed mostly in the EH thread the past two seasons. Banshee has been the greatest supporter of Jack and Elfdream the greatest supporter of Charlie since day one. Seeing that they are ready to leave is a testament to just how bad things have gotten. I knew early on that the writers were flying by the seat of their pants but still watched anyway. I hung on even though they killed off one of my favorite characters (Boone) because I also loved Jack and all the mysteries (I'm not a shipper). This episode actually had me and my husband cheering since Jack finally got the upperhand. But the rest of the episode was crap. Forcing the K/S ship down my throat was enough to run me off. All the others had to do was threaten to kill Kate and Sawyer or just Kate in order to get Jack to operate on Ben. But NO. That would mess up the shipper story. Ugh!! I'm not that intelligent but this just really insulted what little intelligence I have. I truly hope that this show sinks in the spring. It's what they deserve. And by the way, my husband said that Sawyer and Kate deserve each other. Boy, is he right.:mad:



I'm a long time member too, since about the third episode last year, I saw the writing on the wall and was slowly becoming disenchanted with the show. I hung in there hoping it would get better. The end of last season made me deeply regret the fact that I became a fan of this show. I agree with Elf this show is in danger of being a soap opera and when that does happen I am out of here. I also liked Boone a lot and same with Shannon. I just knew that the triangle was becoming very tedious and boring. I did finally cheer for Jack in the end. Small comfort since the rest of the show really bothered me. I really also liked Locke but after last season and what they did to him. It was enough for me.

What's been bugging me most about this show is the clumsy clumsy characterisation of the Losties in general. It always bugged me that they just sat around like complacent sheep playing Sim Gilligan's Isle while their fellows are abducted and murdered and monstered and blown up and so forth... nobody seems interested in the power cable, the underground hatches, the GIANT BOAT in the jungle... these people aren't Lost, they're morons.

Since Hurley's return, has anyone asked him where Michael went? Has anyone bothered to find out that the Island has a dock and a boat? Has Hurley seemed remotely upset that his girlfriend was murdered by his trusted ally?

I agree entirely. I like the show (I think I keep watching *hoping* that it gets better), but this is the 2 main issues with the show are: 1) LACK OF REACTION from the characters and 2) LACK OF COMMUNICATION between the characters.

I'm practically tearing my hair out whenever I think about the character NOT investigation things on the island or NOT telling other characters about events. My jaw practically *dropped* when Sayid (a main character) asked about the monster!! :eek2:

I agree with all of the above. I will definitely stick with the show, but I was very disappointed with the whole 6 episode mini-season. We definitely need some answers. They brought in the "Monster" on the pilot and we still have no idea what it is! Also, why are the Others "the good guys"? Don't we deserve a little information here? I feel insulted by the writers.

The Kate and Sawyer relationship was just ruined. You've lost the sexual tension as the strongest plot device to make their relationship interesting. Joss Whedon, one of televsion's greatest writers, once said, "What they want is for Sam and Diane (of Cheers) to get together. ... Don't give it to them. Trust me. No one's going to go see the story of Othello going to get a peaceful divorce. People want the tragedy. ... Things have to go wrong, bad things have to happen."

Kate's flashback was actually boring. I think this was the first flashback that was not interesting to me.

The highlight of the episode was seeing Jack take charge again. Thank you for that. Unfortunately that was a very small part of the episode. The rest of it felt like the writers had ran out of ideas for this week (except Locke and the other survivors. I'd love to see much more of them).

I missed the first season and just recently watched it all on DVD and was in awe of each episode. As I'd watch each episode I'd say to myself how this is hands down the best series on TV right now. So I still have faith in entire Lost crew that there's still more great stuff to come!

Although I'm sure the producers of Lost has no control over it, I think ABC is doing you a huge disservice by showing only 6 weeks of episodes, then making the audience wait
12 weeks for the 7th episode of the season? The "fall finale"? Unbelievable! The hardcore fans that ABC is screwing over and they assume will come back in Feb. constitute the minority of viewers. Most are people that like the show to varying degrees and won't mind if they miss an episode here or there (they have lives beyond Wednesday night TV). Putting such a huge gap in the continuity of the series will NOT help the network by harming one of their best shows and giving the metaphorical middle finger to the audience.

I don't think the six-episode mini-season was a bad idea. It's just been executed horribly. They had to earn that 12 week break with something substancial for us all to chew on over the break to keep the show in our thoughts and they just didn't.

I'm practically tearing my hair out whenever I think about the character NOT investigation things on the island or NOT telling other characters about events. My jaw practically *dropped* when Sayid (a main character) asked about the monster!!

I forgot about that...It was a "Yarghhh" moment....

I hate to say it, but perhaps having the episodes go back to a few new episodes here and there would be good for the show. Having that many shows air back to back will be hard for the writers to keep continuity. I think what's frustrating to we the viewers is that we know about the stuff that the losties only keep to themselves and their timeline is only a few months and we are well into the third season. Why don't they do an episode that flashes forward and let us wonder how they got to that point? I really hope the show doesn't evolve into Gilligan 90210.

Okay, I liked much about the episode, but I felt some of it could have been better, so I'll post in this thread. Strong points--Jack's scenes. Not much of a Jack fan, but I've liked how they have written him this season. Last night Jack did not disappoint.

On to the aspects I did not care for.

1. The ferocious Alex slingshot attack was a comedic moment--was it supposed to be? I can accept the presence of Smokey as more reality based than the decision of a teenager to attack an armed camp with a slingshot.

2. This season's focus on relationships has really become heavy-handed. I agree with other posters that it seems forced, and I'm wondering if ABC has told LOST to focus more on relationships to tantalize female viewers looking for a prime time soap opera.

3. The downward spiral of the Kate character. Kate in S1 and some of S2 was a great character. Bold and capable. She started losing that toward the end of S2, and the slide continues. What was once a competent female character has become a liability to the Losties. The best she can muster now is to please one of the heroic males in some forced romantic scene. Yeah, my life's in peril and I'm outta my cage and have Sawyer's cage unlocked, but we are apparently on a separate island and can't get off (umm...no pun intended). They are apparently going to kill Sawyer, but we don't try something daring like attacking and taking a hostage; rather, we stay in our cage, have sex, and wait for the executioners to come. I just hope that Nikki is the new (old) Kate. Kate now is a pathetic female character.

4. The cliffhanger. Yeah, it was a more conventional cliff-hanger: How will they get out of that situation rather than someone's life actually being in danger. The latter wouldn't have worked as we know JKS won't die, so I suppose it was a decent choice. Two points. First, in effect, Jack is holding Ben hostage on the operating table in order to spring Kate and Sawyer. Well, he had a gun on Ben prior to that, and an armory behind him. If Jack's whole plan was based on the importance of Ben to the Others, why not just hold the gun on Ben, take some rifles, demand to be taken to Sawyer and Kate, and then take Ben along until they reach freedom? Second point, given the fact that we know JKS will all come out of this well, could we not have had even a tiny bit of mythology WTF at the end? The Eko stick action was not enough.

Again, I liked much of the episode, but I'd be lying if I said it didn't disappoint. Still looking forward to seeing Lost return. Good luck all.

Why don't they do an episode that flashes forward and let us wonder how they got to that point?

That's a fantastic idea. Please send e-mail when that happens...

I can't believe what the writers did to the show. Even if they don't respect the viewers, I would expect they show some respect to what they have written in the past two seasons. The show promised mystery, mythology, sci-fi, good diverse characterisations... well-balanced mixture of everything... something different from all other shows. I don’t watch TV much and I buy DVDs of very few shows. Lost was one of the few that I watched and bought its DVds. I now seriously regret that because these 6 episodes completely destroyed the value I’ve given to this show. And on its just 3rd season, it’s just a regular TV show… I may or may not come back in February but I’m surely not spend a dime for it.

Season 3 has turned the show into a prime time soap opera under the cover of a mystery drama. Day-time soap-operas or shows like Grey's Anatomy or DH are better in that sense because it is what they promise and give. At least they are genuine about what they are. Lost has just backed away from its roots.

Making the triangle the center of captivity storyline was the exploitation of the triangle in the worst sense. As a woman, I hate to see that Lost used the cheapest and easiest theme used in nearly all TV shows for its female lead. And the story is sold under the disguise of character development, a journey of redemption. The writers are selling the show now with promises like "Kate will sleep one of the guys tonight" and they are showing it in the promo. Is this what Lost has become?

There we have 3 losties in captivity. Thank God at least we see Jack using his brain a bit. And what about our master of longcons and running criminal... Instead of showing some intelligence and questioning their surroundings, they go pathetic and have “Cage sex” (Cages that are so secure that you can get out or open in a second)... And Jack sees them together at the monitor. !!!! That’s the most unimaginative and the lowest way to use a triangle (The writers may say “we didnt, the Others did!!) . They have just killed Kate and Sawyer characters in these 6 episodes, their storyline in the show now being completely triangle related. I really felt sorry for the actors playing the angles. I’ve never thought that I would see such scenes in Lost.

And the so-called cliffhanger… We did have better regular episode endings than that. It was so forced to be look emotional that it looked unnatural. Sawyer’s look on his face, Kate shouting (I haven’t even tried to hear all of them). Pickett has never seemed to me as a believable threat. We all know that Sawyer will not be killed. Getting shot, tortured, beaten has been the life itself for this guy on this island and he’s the official Island hotness. And Jack, if they don’t mess up with his character as well, will save Ben. What do we have left?

Will they escape? IT DOESN’T MATTER. How can we care about what happens to the characters when we lose our attachment to them? How long can we look at characters getting dumber and dumber, acting irrational, not asking “why” questions, not communicating with and caring for each other? If that's the mystery of the show itself, I just don't have the patience... At least I need characters to like...

What matters is a belivable story within the themes sold to us in the past two seasons. Gregg Nations, in an answer to a question about writing as they go along, said that “what's wrong with that?”. The issue is not, having everything planned but to make people believe it. I think they do not understand what’s wrong here. What they do is the worst thing that can be done to a promising story. Instead of focusing on constructing a well balanced believable story, they’re trying to write stories according to different fans requests and changing the stories/themes along the way with too many continuity, consistency problems which destroys the balance of the show. And they just say "the show is organic, it's evolving". The show is not evolving, it’s DEVOLVING.

I just wanted to say that I liked a lot the episode...except the cliffhanger (if one can call it that). It was a cliffhanger just for the sake of it ! I am SO disapointed by it ! I was anxiously waiting to see what it would be, even in AA, Lindelof (or was it Cuse ?) described it as awesome as the 24 s5 finale. And it had NOTHING to do with it ! Just a ridiculous, clichéd ending. Even if the episodes ended a minute earlier, it would not have changed a damn thing.
For me the "cliffhanger" was a real disapointment.:undecide:

I am incredibly sad to be posting in this thread for the first time. And I think TPTB had better take note of the fact that I'm not alone, as well as all the first timers posting here, loyalists posting here, my dead grandmother posting here...

I feel conned. I feel patronized. I feel looked upon by TPTB as just another of the great unwashed masses, the lowest common denominator to be pandered to. To Damon and Carlton: Bubbies...What the F was that?! This all feels, now, like some big vanity project, only to please your giggly selves. 'Scuse me, but I thought WE were important, too.

Where's the mythology we love? Where are the sharply defined characterizations? Where are the cohesive story arcs? Where's the substance? I feel like I'm being fed a steady diet of "appeteasers." From a viewer's standpoint, I'm starving to death, and looking for greener pastures. And those ones, way over yon at other networks, are starting to look mighty tasty.

Waiting until February, on pins and needles? Sorry, but it'll be an easy, apathetic wait.

It was, without a doubt, the WORST flashback ever.

And Kate's flashbacks are, for some reason, the worst flashbacks.

All during the episode, I was painfully conscious of how much valuable story time was being wasted with the Kate flashback. Was there anything really new in it? Was there anything especially insightfully or relevant about it? Why was it written? I don't understand it at all.

I liked the bit at the end where Jack seemingly, apparently finally got the upper hand over the Others, but -jeez!- you wasted half of the episode on an utterly vapid flashback!

And seeing Locke and Sayid pointlessly chatting with the new background characters did nothing for me.

I will continue to watch the show. I want to find out what happens. I love the actors. I am intrigued by the entire situation. I am at the same time frustrated by the wasteful flashbacks.If the writers can;t do a better job with the flashbacks, abandon the story-telling device.

Okay, I liked much about the episode, but I felt some of it could have been better, so I'll post in this thread. Strong points--Jack's scenes. Not much of a Jack fan, but I've liked how they have written him this season. Last night Jack did not disappoint.

On to the aspects I did not care for.

1. The ferocious Alex slingshot attack was a comedic moment--was it supposed to be? I can accept the presence of Smokey as more reality based than the decision of a teenager to attack an armed camp with a slingshot.

2. This season's focus on relationships has really become heavy-handed. I agree with other posters that it seems forced, and I'm wondering if ABC has told LOST to focus more on relationships to tantalize female viewers looking for a prime time soap opera.

3. The downward spiral of the Kate character. Kate in S1 and some of S2 was a great character. Bold and capable. She started losing that toward the end of S2, and the slide continues. What was once a competent female character has become a liability to the Losties. The best she can muster now is to please one of the heroic males in some forced romantic scene. Yeah, my life's in peril and I'm outta my cage and have Sawyer's cage unlocked, but we are apparently on a separate island and can't get off (umm...no pun intended). They are apparently going to kill Sawyer, but we don't try something daring like attacking and taking a hostage; rather, we stay in our cage, have sex, and wait for the executioners to come. I just hope that Nikki is the new (old) Kate. Kate now is a pathetic female character.

4. The cliffhanger. Yeah, it was a more conventional cliff-hanger: How will they get out of that situation rather than someone's life actually being in danger. The latter wouldn't have worked as we know JKS won't die, so I suppose it was a decent choice. Two points. First, in effect, Jack is holding Ben hostage on the operating table in order to spring Kate and Sawyer. Well, he had a gun on Ben prior to that, and an armory behind him. If Jack's whole plan was based on the importance of Ben to the Others, why not just hold the gun on Ben, take some rifles, demand to be taken to Sawyer and Kate, and then take Ben along until they reach freedom? Second point, given the fact that we know JKS will all come out of this well, could we not have had even a tiny bit of mythology WTF at the end? The Eko stick action was not enough.

Again, I liked much of the episode, but I'd be lying if I said it didn't disappoint. Still looking forward to seeing Lost return. Good luck all.

Im willing to bet that Sawyer realizes he really does have that pacemaker in him. Remeber, Pickett let him off from work that day

I for one am glad you did, colin - as a member of the "first time posters to the Didn't Love It thread" I sincerely hope that they do read this.

Unlikely. It appears as though the post has already been removed.

I just wanted to post a bit of the itw between Cuse+Lindelof+Ausiello :

Is there going to be a sort of "challah"-type thing at the end of tonight's episode?
Carlton: No.
Damon: It's not a game-changer.
Carlton: But there's a good cliff-hanger.
Damon: It's a much more conventional cliff-hanger in the vein of Jack Bauer going on a slow boat to China.
Carlton: We believe it's a cliff-hanger that will make the audience want to come back and watch the show when it picks up in February.
Damon: It will hopefully be good enough to incur major frustration from the audience as to "How dare we go off the air for 13 weeks and leave them hanging in that fashion!"
Carlton: The angrier we make them the better the cliff-hanger is, I guess.

1) A good cliffhanger ? COME-ON !
2) Conventional ? Really ? A "conventional" cliffhanger would be for instance Sawyer at gunpoint, Ben is this close to dying, and Jack has no leverage since there are two islands. Even that, as a useless cliffhanger it could have been, would have been BETTER than this...'ending'.
3) Well you made us angry, all right !

I agree with most of the posts here. this ep was crap. where was the cliffhanger?
season 3 had a promising kick off but got weaker and weaker from ep to ep. "the cost of living" was the worst lost ep ever .. at least I thought so until I saw "I do"
I guess the writers have some good ideas but they don't execute. showing sawyer from his weaker side, introducing some romance with kate, fueled by their hopeless situation being caged like animals and treated like slaves. the other losties discovering more mysticals. it could be all good. but it isn't.
nothing of relevance has been told, the plot itself is ridiculous, full of uninspired fillers.
well, kate and nikki are pretty but that doesn't make up everything. jack's and henry's acting is brilliant but it doesn't help if everything else is messed up.
the only good thing I can in this is that I do not have to concern myself with the next 13 weeks of no lost episodes because of this disappointment called "cliffhanger"

Well, like I said, Jack's part of the episode was the only positive, and based on your other post, that's all you watched anyway, so I can see why you'd think the episode was decent. :)



I agree, Jack's part of the episode was the only thing worth watching.

Dude, that's actually kind of inspiring that YOU loved the episode. If you can be won back then anyone can!

Wow, I can't believe Malachy loved the episode either. I guess there is hope for a lot of us to come back after the break. ;)

I posted my thoughts on that in the same thread...

Long story short, the Lost - 24 connection is continuing to grow! Shepphard is channeling Bauer, and it was the best part of the night

I didn't hate it, but I kept waiting for something more !!!!
Jack's scenes were fabulous, in fact he's been the best in all 6 ep's, thank God for Jack.
So much for ending the triangle, that ain't over by a long way. I don't want to go on and on so, it was good but some what predictable.

I didn't hate it, but I kept waiting for something more !!!!
Jack's scenes were fabulous, in fact he's been the best in all 6 ep's, thank God for Jack.
So much for ending the triangle, that ain't over by a long way. I don't want to go on and on so, it was good but some what predictable.

It was predictable because the promo's gave everything they considered important (which is not what I considered important) away. And I don't understand the sentiments from people stating that "thank god the triangle is over." Is that what they really think? I guess the last 5 minutes were for nill then. And I know people can use the excuse that she still cares for Jack but loves Sawyer. However, if I am made to believe Kate's distraught over Sawyer the whole episode, then I will believe her distraught of not wanting to leave Jack, because there is more than just friendship there.

The thing I'm reading is almost everyone liked the Jack parts of the episode. That tells me that the writers aren't a bunch of hacks..that there are things they CAN do very well. We do give them credit where credit is due and that bit was well done.

I think what we want, and I admit its difficult, is to have episodes where there aren't bits we have to fast forward through. I know..one veiwer's exciting mystery would be another viewer's big yawn and that's why I say it would be difficult. Yet when you have one part of the episode that almost everyone agrees was the 'good' part shouldn't that send a mesage of some kind?

Write more 'good' parts maybe?

I loved last night's episode. I know, I know, I'm a turncoat, but oh how Jack played the Others -- many priceless moments. Forgive me fellas.

http://www.thefuselage.com/Threaded/showpost.php?p=1272417&postcount=41

I would concur with your assessment of Jack, the actor and the character were the only thing redeemable from this episode in my opinion. But even coupled with Locke's moment of biblical inspiration, Jack's story and the "cliffhanger" account for about 10 minutes of screen time. What was the other half an hour? Crap.

I've resigned myself to not expecting much from Lost and watching it as "popcorn" television, but even tonight's episode was a stretch. Maybe some of the blame lays at the foot of the network promo people but I still have to lay most of the blame for this turd at the feet of two executive producers. You give me Jack's play for power coupled with something juicier than Locke staring at a bible quote and it might pass as a noteworthy mini-finale.

Basically, I felt like I was at restaurant and I knew this was going to be the last time in 3 months I was going to eat beef, so I ordered a large cut of filet mignon. However I was served a McDonald's quarter pounder... with no fries!:biggrin:

Also... I'm going to tread carefully without "attacking" the poster. Based on previous history I'm a little dismayed by your reaction to the episode. It makes me think you're being contrary for the sake of being contrary, perhaps due to boredom. Which is totally okay. Everyone's entitled to change perspective or opinion, but yours is so jarring it seems a bit disingenuous.

Elfdream, of course the writers aren't hacks. This episode was written by Damon and Carlton. Other episodes they've written together? 'Deus Ex Machina', 'Exodus, parts 1 and 2'.

These guys are capable of BRILLIANCE. Which makes it all the more mystifying when they miss the mark.

The thing I'm reading is almost everyone liked the Jack parts of the episode. That tells me that the writers aren't a bunch of hacks..that there are things they CAN do very well. We do give them credit where credit is due and that bit was well done.

I think what we want, and I admit its difficult, is to have episodes where there aren't bits we have to fast forward through. I know..one veiwer's exciting mystery would be another viewer's big yawn and that's why I say it would be difficult. Yet when you have one part of the episode that almost everyone agrees was the 'good' part shouldn't that send a mesage of some kind?

Write more 'good' parts maybe?

Good post, elfdream! I think you're right. Most people I'm hearing from really hated this episode... except for the Jack scenes. There has been some really good stuff in these six episodes, but there's also been a lot of bad (like the Kate character assassination). I don't think TPTB are total hacks, by any means, I'm just worried they're losing touch with what most fans actually want to see. :undecide:

Laughable.

Good to see Lost has a strategy for getting back in the Emmy race; switch from the drama category to comedy.

Exactly! Lost has embraced the genre of self-parody!

I liked it but i didn't love it. Seriously WTF is up with Kate.. She loves Sawyer but she needs Jack.. she can't have the two.

They shoulda killed Sawyer off and Jack should leave the island.. then we can continue with the rest of the characters.

I found the Sawyer,Kate,Pickett rain scene was very well done. Locke and Sayid's scene's were good. Jack = yawn..

I've literally defended LOST at every turn...

Last night, for the first time ever...I have no defense. It was just an embarassment.

First the cringe-worthy "Further Instructions" (Locke fought a damn polar bear with hairspray...HAIRSPRAY!) and now this.

Horrible, uninspired, waste of my time...and just plain frustrating. Now instead of theories about what is transpiring on the show, we are actually theorizing on what the EFF! is going on inside the heads of these writers.

Basically, How I see it is that Matthew Fox is leaving the show, he is leaving the show and they needed to bring Kate and Sawyer together, because they will be the focus of the show from here on out. They didnt kill Jack last night and he didnt leave, but I just feel he is going to be gone pretty soon after the hiatus. If they offed him or let him sail away ALA Mikey and Walt I think there would be even less people returning after the break. It sucks 'cause as I have said in past posts: Jack is the man.

Mr. Eko's death was a decision made by AAA in order for him to pursue a labour of love...and I wish him the best. Naveen Andrews is gonna want off craphole island next. I just know it.


But the way these guys are arching these changes are ridiculous. Furthermore, they are losing a really faithful and loyal fan base. There is no excuse for the forthy-somewhat waste that was last nights episode...
NONE.
Then you take into account that I am shovel fed this turd of a show "Day Break" every ten minutes(yeah, I love you, too, Taye Diggs:rolleyes: )

Audible Sigh
BrokeNeck Nathan

Ghastly episode. A cliffhanger that left me yawning.

I'd love to say I can't wait for the next installments of Lost. But the truth is, I can. In fact, I can wait a long time.

Jump the shark or shake the bunny -- doesn't matter. It's a goner.

First the cringe-worthy "Further Instructions" (Locke fought a damn polar bear with hairspray...HAIRSPRAY!) and now this.


At least that was in (what I consider to be) the best episode of S3. It was a low-point in a decent episode.

Kate and Sawyer getting naked and having sex in an outdoor cage in full view of dozens of people that want to kill them...that is completely indefensible.

The worst bit is how horribily they've destroyed poor Kate's character. I feel really bad for her. I've always liked Kate, but she's been so out of character.... Completely gone is the strong, take-charge woman from seasons one and two.

That was kind of sad. Kate seems so harmless and such an emotional (and perpetually crying) mess now. Throw in the gratuitous sex scene and the dress, and you do kind of have to wonder if this show is sexist.

Even Jack's ploy has some big holes in it. Surely Juliet could suture a bleeder in the kidney. We know she's not in a hurry to because she wants Ben dead (and Jack is counting on that), but wouldn't Tom be perplexed that she wasn't trying to save Ben?

I do want to sort of defend the slingshot scene. Alex was raised by the Others, probably in Ben's household, and they love her, even if she's in rebellious teenager mode. They weren't about to shoot her, so the slingshots were allowed to continue until someone could restrain her.

But then I thought the ignited hairspray was a touch of MacGyver-esque genius on Locke's part.

Cardie

Basically, How I see it is that Matthew Fox is leaving the show, he is leaving the show and they needed to bring Kate and Sawyer together, because they will be the focus of the show from here on out. They didnt kill Jack last night and he didnt leave, but I just feel he is going to be gone pretty soon after the hiatus. If they offed him or let him sail away ALA Mikey and Walt I think there would be even less people returning after the break. It sucks 'cause as I have said in past posts: Jack is the man.


If the face of Lost, Lost's leading man would ever decide to leave or get "fired" then their ratings would plummet so fast that they wouldn't be able to see straight. Jack is a big draw to Lost whether some people like it or not. You see how upset non-shippers are (forget the shippers) at what Kate did to Jack during this episode. It really speaks volumes.

Not only was the Sawyer/Kate thing unneccessary, and as other people have said embarrassingly stupid and unreal, but Kate's strong character has turned into this mushy/wimpy little nothing. Remember the old strong Kate in her flashbacks and on the island, but now wimpy.

I get the feeling that the writers/directors got caught sitting on their past achievement, maybe too impressed with themselves and not putting the same energy or creativity into this show this season. I always felt they "crafted" the show. Now it seems only words on paper to fill time...

[FONT=Arial]Ah yes, tis a thin line between tragedy and farce. Personally I think Lost definitely crossed it in the season 2 finale, and I laughed all through it.

Oh, yeah. Lost is farce now. That's the best single word to describe the show. How can you take it seriously anymore?

The flashback problem can be solved if the writers choose to leave behind the stories they've retold over and over again, with the same themes.

For example, Locke's flashback revealing how he was paralyzed should have been shown by now, the writers are just stringing it along. They can tell how he became paralyzed, and in the future have another flashback with how he is dealing with his new lifestyle.

I have hope that the show can rebound after tonights and become the same LOST we all loved. Desperate Housewives finally pulled itself together last week in the episode "Bang" which I thought to be the best episode of the whole series and really brought itself back to its Season 1 roots. I have faith lost can do the same. The writers just have to be willing to listen to us and make changes, like Marc Cherry did with DH.

Start telling us about the Others, their purpose, DHARMA, it's purpose, introduce the FLAME hatch, introduce eye-patch guy, use Desmond, Danielle, and the Others for flashbacks revealing past island experiences! I am dying for a Danielle flashback, but we've yet to see one. Introduce the Hanso and Widmore storyline and its tie-in to DHARMA and the island. Give us more from our characters flashbacks (ex. how did Locke become paralyzed?). Tell us how and why smokey was created, what its purpose was. Show us the radio tower! There are so many things going on with this island and on the island that can be developed but the writers are failing to take it anywhere. Instead we are wasting time on romance storylines. I just hope things change when they come back from break.

Don't wait until the last few episodes of a season to provide some answers and a million more questions that won't be answered. It's season 3 we should know at least most of the answers to questions raised in Season 1 and we don't! The only thing we know is that the Others are people and there are hatches on the island that was a creation of some Initiative, and that the monster is made of smoke and is able to kill people.

How did Jack's move change anything?

Exactly! Had Kate and Sawyer simply run (instead of having sex) after she busted Sawyer from his cage, then what would have changed? One hour. One freakin' hour. Brilliant. But its gets better -- they're still on that second island so what's the point anyway?? (Well, I do know the answer to that thanks to spoilers, but still you gotta chuckle.)

Ah, farce, self-parody, it's all good.

I do want to sort of defend the slingshot scene. Alex was raised by the Others, probably in Ben's household, and they love her, even if she's in rebellious teenager mode. They weren't about to shoot her, so the slingshots were allowed to continue until someone could restrain her.

My friends and I have literally been goofing on it all day. My favorite part (other than the complete non-tension over whether one minor character would give another minor character a shiner) were the alarms.

Sawyer beats the hell out of Pickett, grabs his gun and is about to escape...no alarms. Kate is climbing out of her cage on a regular basis...no alarms. Jack is escaping his cell, grabbing a gun and pointing it at Henry...no alarms. Girl with a slingshot? CODE RED.

this is posted on that chick kristens blog about tonights episode:

Are you counting the minutes till Lost's big "fall finale"? Well, you should be! 'Cause tonight's episode has more than a few squeal-worthy happenings, like Kate finally making her "choice"; Kate revealing a secret past no one knows about (that involves Firefly star Nathan Fillion); and perhaps the most integral to the overall plot development: Jack's decision whether to save the life of Ben, aka Michael Emerson

I think I just threw up a lot of Dangerdork's milk inside my mouth.

they need Javi

Amen.

I totally agree. I'm seriously questioning returning at all in Feb...

I thought it would shock a few people. I haven't really my mind but I have become seriously 'disenchanted' with the show. I am officially no longer a rabid hard core fan.

Whoa. It's been interesting to watch the numbers in this thread swell with each episode this season. I've been a hardcore fan and serious C.R.I.T.I.C. simultaneously from the start. Remember the S2 CRITIC threads? That's where this thread got it's start. The likes of Vertical, CardieLost, Malachy and me have been picking this show apart for since the start.

But I gotta say I'm amazed to see hardcore oldtimers like Banshee, Elfdream and MPMom ready to give up the ghost here. This show is in serious danger of losing the core of the hardcore fanbase. We are all kinds of fans here, and none of us are happy.

[QUOTE=LostFaith;1271327]I think the reality is that the writers had a great concept but just didn't have the creative writing and production talent to carry it off. I think we just have to accept it.

No. We don't just have to accept it. We can reject it and flush our fandom down the toilet.

I've seen better writing in this thread, week after week, than I've seen in the past dozen episodes.



The mystery about Craphole Island is that Dharma and Hanso built a very top secret mechanism called "a built-in audience depletion mechanism", that will soon destroy the island, and all of its inhabitants careers.

Mad.Matt

See, like that. That was brilliant, Mad.Matt.

I loved last night's episode. I know, I know, I'm a turncoat, but oh how Jack played the Others -- many priceless moments. Forgive me fellas.

http://www.thefuselage.com/Threaded/showpost.php?p=1272417&postcount=41

Traitor.

My friends and I have literally been goofing on it all day. My favorite part (other than the complete non-tension over whether one minor character would give another minor character a shiner) were the alarms.

Sawyer beats the hell out of Pickett, grabs his gun and is about to escape...no alarms. Kate is climbing out of her cage on a regular basis...no alarms. Jack is escaping his cell, grabbing a gun and pointing it at Henry...no alarms. Girl with a slingshot? CODE RED.

You beat me to it. This was but one of many big problems I had with the epi.

Who was wanking off while watching the cage porn?

I'm supposed to believe they leave their arsenal unlocked?

And everything else everybody said, except the good stuff. There was nothing good. Not even Jack's stuff was good. It was wrecked by the obvious plot holes that were bigger than the ex- im- plooded hatchery of nonsense.

I think you all have the cliffhanger wrong, though. I think the cliffhanger is supposed to be whether or not Jack leaves the island, as Benry promised. And I'm with the kid above who said he thinks Jack is on his way back to real life. I can't see Mr. Shepphard sticking out this schlock too much longer if he has a choice.

Still working on my MST4200 script.

Wow.

I wish it were possible to say this episode simply "Jumped the Shark", but I can't.

Instead, I can only describe "I Do" as the moment "Lost" not only imploded, but threw itself (and most likely a huge number of the fans) under the bus before jumping the shark.

Two years of an often intelligent, poignant show has been incomprehensibly thrown in the crapper. Are the people responsible for the first six episodes of season three even remotely familiar with the previous forty-eight episodes?

What an utter catastrophe. Everyone knows Kate is no Mary Poppins, but at least she had some honor, and some dignity. I'm by no means a shipper, but all the nonsense with Sawyer came out of the clear blue sky. Sex in a cage, while being taped, with a guy who has dumped all over her for two seasons? Not only has the show thrown the viewers under a bus, they've thrown Kate under it too.

"Lost" was one of two shows on TV that I bothered to follow over the last several years. Sadly, "I Do" was the series finale for me. I wouldn't be surprised if this episode is looked back upon as the hour that killed what was once a thoroughly entertaining and rather promising show.

I won't be tuning in again.

What they - TPTB..the real Others - have done to Kate is shocking.


First, let me get this out of the way - we FINALLY have a scene where one of our protagonists actually successfully takes advantage of a situation and does something. Mind you, it had to come when the leader of the Others willingly puts himself under and at the mercy of Jack, so it's not like Jack accomplished this through some marvelous feat of will. Nah, he was essentially asked to do it. But still, at least he didn't just whimper and do as he's told like Kate has been doing all season. "I am Jack's angry revenge" was the only thing I didn't cringe at this episode.

Now that I've gotten the only positive about tonight's episode out of the way, onto my critical reaction:

-----------------

"I Do"? More like "I don't".

I don't understand why we wasted 6 episodes on about 3 episodes worth of story. Ponder with me, if you will, what happened between A Tale of Two Cities and I Do that was necessary to have 4 episodes between them. Consider if Eko simply died in the hatch implosion, as he should have - we can then ditch Further Instructions and The Cost of Living. Did anything noteworthy or of importance ultimately happen in those episodes? Eko was missing and possibly dead, Eko was found, Eko was killed.

Huh? Why not just ... have him die in the explosion? I mean, they gave him a terrible send off anyway, what with getting tossed about like a cartoon by the black smoke that had previously given him a pass... So what was the purpose of looking for him, finding him, having him escape, looking for him (again), and finding him, only to have him die? What changed? Nothing. So think about it: If Eko dies in the explosion and the episode progression had been A Tale of Two Cities, The Glass Ballerina, Every Man For Himself, and then I Do, what would we have missed? Anything?

Now let's think about it a little bit more. Did we really even need Every Man For Himself? What did we learn? Well, we learned they were on a different island... in the last 60 seconds of the episode. The rest of the episode was spent in some ludicrous 'trick' which ultimately wasn't necessary. Just take Sawyer at gunpoint up to the top of the mountain, show him he's on a different island, and ... viola, you've accomplished the same thing in 60 seconds instead of wasting an entire episode. This one scene could have been put anywhere else, in any other episode.

So, now we're down to three episodes: A Tale of Two Cities, The Glass Ballerina, and then I Do. Make two changes (1 - Have Eko die in the implosion, 2 - put the 'we're on a different island' scene in any other episode), and suddenly this 'pre-season' is 50% shorter, but we aren't missing anything. Nothing!

I don't like any of Kate's flashbacks. They're redundant, boring, and inconsequential. This has gone beyond ludicrous with her. How many times will the writers go back to the well of 'Kate is on the run. Kate will always be on the run. Kate will never settle down. Kate betrays people she loves'? Honestly, the characters in her flashbacks change, but the story is the same every freakin' time. So in the same episode that we see her get married, she also flees from the marriage. Pointless. Completely pointless.

I don't get what was so mind-blowing about the 'message' Locke 'discovers' (Discovers! Ha! It's been on that freakin' stick since Eko got there! More like "finally noticed and applied a meaning to it that wasn't intended when it was written"). "Lift up your eyes and look North". Well, gee, I wonder what will happen when he does that? Hmm... let me guess, he'll see the other Island? That's The 'mystery of the Island'?! That's the best they can come up with? A reference to a revelation that they've already made (that there are two islands)? Wow, they're running out of ideas, FAST.

I don't think this show will pull out of its ratings nose-dive. The writers seem to be completely oblivious to the problems in the show - the inconsistancies, the horrible dialogue, the cheesy, forced 'romance', the absurd situations (a SLINGSHOT!? Are you kidding me?), the completely illogical actions, the lack of communication, etc., etc., etc., and seem completely fine just marching on ahead with their fingers in their ears going "LA LA LA LA" and giving us garbage each week. People have been taking note all season, and the contingent of disgruntled viewers is growing weekly.

The writers seem to think that people want to see Kate get together with someone. I don't.

The writers seem to think it's OK to discard the island mythology for shirtless scenes. I don't.

The writers seem to think that they've concocted a great 'cliff hanger' in this episode. I don't.

I think they just gave millions of people the proverbial finger with these six episodes, and I know that everyone I talk(ed) to about Lost doesn't have near the same passion for the show that they used to.

I don't.

Tell me about it. Honestly, do the writers not know what a cliffhanger is? Just look at the word - "cliff" "hanger" - as in - a show ending with someone hanging off of a cliff, outcome uncertain.

If the writers wanted a cliffhanger in this episode, they end it before Jack makes his move. They end it with his scalpal on Ben's kidney, with a moment of hesitation, a moment of doubt... will he do it? Won't he? What's his plan? What's he thinking? Then cut to Sawyer and Kate, both with guns to their heads.

End the show there, and you've got yourself a cliffhanger. Not the best one in the world, mind you, but something that actually qualifies as a cliffhanger, technically speaking. We don't know what is going to happen if the show stops there.

But instead, the show ends with Jack pulling off a stunt which gains an advantage, essentially frees Kate and Sawyer, and leaves Jack holding all the cards! I mean, Jack surely couldn't have been so stupid as to put down that Luger he picked up, right? So he's still got that... so he's got himself enough leverage to escape himself after Kate and Sawyer escape.

How is that a cliffhanger? What? What, exactly, is hanging from the figurative cliff? Not Jack, he's in a position of power. Not Kate, she's being let go. Maybe Sawyer, if Pickett just decides to up and kill him, but, really, wouldn't he have already shot him? Besides, if Pickett shoots Sawyer, no way will Jack save Ben. So Sawyer's safe.

Everyone is safe! What a GREAT cliffhanger!


Great first post as usual Vertical. Really hammers it home.

But you do understand the cliffhanger they gave us, don't you ?

Has she really chosen Sawyer ? She can't leave without Jack !

That's a show stopper right there :drowsy:

This is the worst episode they could have come with, it almost looks as if they had intentionally written a Lost gag. Cheesy dialogue, unnecesary scenes -and I usually have no problems with sex scenes, this just was stupid. If they want to tell the audience "hey, see, Kate chooses Sawyer", then it didn't even work, there are people still saying otherwise (and I concede they can cause that last sequence was too ambivalent)
At least it makes the usual anticipation for the February episodes FAR more bearable. In fact, it makes it disappear completely :lol:

After seing this episode (and this ending), I need a day break, seriously. :biggrin:

Setting the timer til prophey's post is edited.

I used to follow the insider and all other lost info religiously. Shortly after the 4th S2 episode or so, it wasn't so important. Now it doesn't matter enough to put the time into it.

I am very interested to read your take on it though, if you make it past the censors here.

ETA: Speaking of S2, there is some reasoning to explain the hapless behavior of our caged love puppies. S2 started off on the premise that this was a great social-psych science experiment. Many references have been made to soci-psych experiments on authority, conditioning and imprisonment.

I was once so thrilled at that premise because I am a sociologist by profession. Unfortunately, the bad writing, bad plotting, evisceration of once great characters and lack of continuity have destroyed the very real promise of that very real premise.

Sawyer and Kate's bizarre behavior can be explained through social=psych theory. Unfortuately, sucky writing doesn't make it easy to digest and make it nearly incomprehensible to anybody unfamiliar with the academic theories.

I think I've figured out what I don't like about Lost. As previous posters have said, the characters have spent too many episodes in a pointless--and very un-Lost like--situation. No more jungle hikes or beach powwows: nope, our three heroes are STILL stuck in their cages after six long, dragged out episodes.

The show Battlestar Galactica also started its new season with its characters plucked out of their normal setting. But unlike Lost, in BSG's 3rd episode, the characters were back to what makes the series great: the epic space battles and life on the battlestar.

Lost should have dealt with the miniseason in the same way. But what we got was Jack, Kate, and Sawyer still trapped in the Others' commune. And what's worse, they don't appear to even want to leave: Kate climbs out of her cage twice, busts Sawyer's cage open, and they just stand there in the rain making eyes at each other instead of trying to get away.

We aren't watching Lost anymore. It used to be an island mystery. Now, they aren't on their island anymore and there isn't any mystery.

After reading through a lot of this thread, I'm also in the camp that feels that the individual backstory is taking too much of the front seat and not progressing the main story.

It may be that you don't really "have" a main story and that you are trying to focus on "character" episodes...

But if that is the case then I can say this show is starting to feel a lot more like Little Lost on the Prairie or worse yet Touched by an Other.

I'll even echo the sentiments that a lot can be learned by the writers of shows like BSG who have in the same number of episodes completed several story movements while still focusing on characters.

Lost needs more hatches, more oddities, more crazy fench women, more mysteries, and less ambiguity.

If you have a master plan of how everything will progress... you need to start showing some cards... because after tonight's episode.. I feel like this is either the last season ...

Either because you're done...

Or we're not going to be interested anymore...

I feel like I should write a Eulogy for a show I once loved, and was fascinated with.

Like many of other posters on this thread, at one time, Lost the show was mystical to me. I searched for mysteries, I anxiously awaited spoiler snippets. I couldn't freakin' wait til Wednesday. No longer is that the case. And I wanted to talk about the show to as many people as possible. Today, I spoke to no one. I was afraid I might become nauseous if I did. :eek2:

The only bright spot, and I'm worried it'll get marred with the second half of S3, is the character of Jack, played brilliantly by M. Fox.

I hope that the second of half of S3 isn't just filled with hope for the characters on the show, but I wish that there was hope for us diehard fans, who are now sludging through bad writing, bad story lines, character inconsistencies, ratings ploys, spoiler and promo overload, missing but promised cliffhangers, and characters who just don't belong on the screen. But I'm not putting any money on it.

Lost, it was an excellent new adventure in t.v.
It is survived by its offsping Heroes
Save the Cheerleader Save the World
May Lost Hopefully Rest in Peace.
Because it seems the true blue fans won't.

shoegirl

Sawyer beats the hell out of Pickett, grabs his gun and is about to escape...no alarms. Kate is climbing out of her cage on a regular basis...no alarms. Jack is escaping his cell, grabbing a gun and pointing it at Henry...no alarms. Girl with a slingshot? CODE RED.

Haha.Too true!

I've been very cosy hanging out here since EMFH, reading everyones comments. All spot on. But sheesh, this episode was really cack. Need I ask how disappointing was that cliffhanger? The least of my expectations was that (I hoped) it was gonna counter the lack of 'WHOA!' factor S3 has seriously been missing.Oh how my heart was wrong.

We learnt, it took a pointless death for Locke to read the scripture on Eko's stick...the same stick that 'jumped up and slapped him in the face' in FI! (Well, kinda-fell from the sky then!)

And don't get me started on the overkilled Sawyer beatings...

Maybe they'll startover come February and scrap the spin-off show called The Others (w/guest stars from your old favourite tv show Lost!)

But I'm not gonna hold my breath.

CHOOSE YOUR WEAPON! = Slingshot.

Long time lurker, first time poster, HUGE fan of the show--even got involved in TLE during the break. Have gotten friends hooked on the series, and proudly bought merchandise associated just to add my support to what seemed to be one of the best shows in television history, frankly.

And they (pardon the pun) lost me this season, officially. I was hanging on until this mini-season's finale, in the hopes that the writers had more up their sleeves than we'd seen so far this season and would actually deliver on the promises they've been stringing us all along with for 2.5 seasons, now... and then there was Taco Night, the awkwardness of Skate (and I've been a Kate/Sawyer 'shipper since season one and actually *enjoy* the romantic angles on some of the stories--I just don't feel that it needs a whole episode, frankly, and think that they handled it in a way that did no justice to any of the characters involved). There were character inconsistencies and plot holes and whole sections of the first two seasons being completely ignored, there was the half-hearted disposal of Mr. Eko, the equally half-hearted "Locke from Season One"-ness of Locke, there was Nikki and Paulo shoved onto the screen in the weird hopes that we might accept them as part of the set cast, now, since they've all bonded over a character they didn't know and had no real interaction with up until this very episode...

The whole thing had the feel of directionless, jarring, tacked-on filler, and that's pretty insulting to an audience like this one. I won't be there in Feburary for further insults--I don't care how often I'm told that *this* episode will be the one to magically make it all better. My suspension of disbelief just can't support all the writer's glaring inconsistencies, sorry.

Maybe they'll startover come February and scrap the spin-off show called The Others (w/guest stars from your old favourite tv show Lost!)

But I'm not gonna hold my breath.

CHOOSE YOUR WEAPON! = Slingshot.

LOL, you nailed it with the "spin-off" comment. The sheer abundance of new (and for the most part, uninteresting) new characters feels exactly like the set-up for some ill-conceived spin-off series.

Join me in the front row for this week's episode of Mystery Science Theater 4200.

Jabba the Pickett: You must chop blocks without Ham Sawyer.

Princess Kleia: I can't chop blocks without Ham Sawyer.

Jabba the Pickett: You must pay the rent.

Princess Kleia (eyes well with tears) : I can't pay the rent.

Ham Sawyer: (huddled hapless in corner) C'mon Freckles, pay the rent.

Princess Kleia (flexing eyelashes) : No James!They will kill you if I pay the rent!

Ham Sawyer (perks up with with a rakish grin) : It's all worth it if you just bend over one more time, Freckles. (Thinks to himself, I wonder if she has freckles on her %$^$**=8) .

Jabba the Picket pokes a stick at our heroes, who obediently chop rocks.

Jabba the Picket: Ow! What the h--?

Enter Ewok with teeth bared and slingshot sliging. Bells clang! Red lights flash! The island rumbles! Warning! Warning Will Robinson! A ticked off teenageris running amok! More bell clanging.

Princess Kleia and Ham Sawyer stare stupidly at each other.

Jabba the Pickett: Damn you, Ford! If this twerp beans me again I'm going to take you dow to Chinatown you sonuvab-i-t-c-you know what!

Ham Sawyer glowers.

To be continued...

What the hell is going on with this show? I can't believe that it's the same show at all from what I originally got hooked on. And this coming from somebody who rarely watches tv other than to view the news for 10 minutes a day.

The last show I got hooked on was the X-Files which I watched from it's 2nd episode to the very bitter end. I walked away from that show with such disgust that I vowed never to get hooked on another show of it's ilk because I've seen shows of this magnitude always ultimately degenerate into something unintelligable and catering to the lowest common denominator from it's fanbase.

I should have known better with this show.

How I got into Lost was out of desperation from seeing nothing good to rent from my local video store last winter. Season 2 was still airing and I was always hearing tidbits about how intriguing this show was. So here I saw Season 1 for rent and I picked up the first disc and took it home not expecting anything at all. Instead, my wife and I watched all the eps on that disc and frantically drove back to the rental store to grab all the others with only 5 minutes til they closed. We devoured those discs like starving maniacs. After having watched those, we had to patiently wait for 4 months til Season 2 came out on dvd because we didn't want to ruin any of the surprises that awaited us prematurely. So when that came out, we rented all of those having to fight off a few people at the rental store and we watched that entire season in 3 days. Then naturally I was sooo damn hooked on this show, I ended up buying the dvd box sets and rewatched all the eps again and spent vast amounts of time analyzing them and discerning all the little clues that was embedded into them. By then, we were totally and hopelessly hooked and had to patiently wait, albeit rabidly, for Season 3 to air. This was the first time in over 10 years that I awaited a tv show with such anticipation and actually planned my time around catching it on tv as a recording of it just wouldn't do. God what a let down this show has become.

I'm having a very hard time understanding why a show of this caliber has degenerated so rapidly. At least the X-Files had 6-7 really solid years before it's final 2 which became a total sham and shadow of it's former glory. But this show.... I can't even fathom how convoluted it has become with out any direction except to morph into all the other garbage that has become standard television. My very short lived love affair with tv has once again ended in misery and with a much again learned lesson that that has earned it's rightful name "the idiot box".

I agree with and share almost every single negative comment posted in this thread. They are all well-founded points for TPTB to consider, but I know that would be too much at this point to ask for. When I read the positive comments in the "Loved It" thread, it's immediately apparent who TPTB are catering to. Unfortunately, thats not the kind of writing that will keep this ship afloat. If, overall, we wanted ridiculous love story triangles backed with convoluted and unbelievable characters whose story IS trapped in a bloody snow-globe, we would be watching any number of those silly never-ending soap operas that have plagued tv's afternoon time slot.

Yeah, I'll be back in '07 to see just where this sham of a show is going to take me, but I don't have that high of hopes that even if there is a Season 4 that I'll be there. At least not at the rate things are going now.

The only positive thing I can think of is that there is one less thing for me to buy when Season 3 comes out on dvd. Unless, unless TPTB can pull their collective heads out of you know where and actually get back to the magic that made this show, not this overly-lame soap opera drama drag queen :(

We learnt, it took a pointless death for Locke to read the scripture on Eko's stick...the same stick that 'jumped up and slapped him in the face' in FI! (Well, kinda-fell from the sky then!)

This ties into what Vertical was saying - if he had seen it then, we would have saved ourselves another episode.

I'm not jumping ship by any means, but it feels like the plot has grinded to a halt. We couldn't even spend this time tying up loose ends? Oh, this is where the polar bears came from! Okay, uh, Ethan had super strength, what about that?

These guys are capable of BRILLIANCE. Which makes it all the more mystifying when they miss the mark.

I don't think they're missing the mark. Instead, I think they've switched targets. Damon and Carlton (and all the other writers on the series) know how to put a story together. You don't get to that level without being proficient. But for some reason unbeknownst to us, in sesason 3, they have decided to CHANGE THE WAY they want to tell this story.

They have discarded much of the original mythology they spent two years building. Javi spent the summer wrapping up the Dharma/Hanso stuff with the Experience.

They have played fast and loose with the characters they spent two years establishing.

They have spent 6 hours introducing us to a plot that BRAZENLY CONTRADICTS previously established plot points.

And they have told us in interviews and podcasts that they have no intention of going back to the storytelling style they employed in seasons 1 and 2. They are going to rely instead on "character-based" episodes to keep viewers engaged.

We can only guess why they have done this. It's probably a combination of 1) network pressure to engage a broader demographic of more casual viewers and 2) their dawning awareness that the mythology they built cannot sustain itself.

It's too bad. I would have rather taken 3 brief seasons of brilliant mythology-based storytelling over 5 or 6 seasons of weepy, watered-down love triangles and a trickle of mysteries that I no longer believe will ever be answered in any compelling way.

If THE WATCHMEN was Lindelof's inspiration for LOST, then he needs to go back and re-read that novel. Because Alan Moore pulled off the precarious balance between character and mythology with absolute brilliance in it. Of course, Moore really IS a genius, so perhaps its unfair to expect that much from the guy who used to write NASH BRIDGES.

What the hell is going on with this show? I can't believe that it's the same show at all from what I originally got hooked on.
My sentiments exactly. I'm still in disbelief at how bad it has become. I never thought this show could be as bad as it is now. And only within 6 episodes too. Thats stunningly bad storytelling. To get people completely unhooked within only 6 episodes...

DOH!

All of a sudden we have Locke talking to characters who have been on the island all along with no character development of their own? What next, Locke has a speed boat and a portable martini bar which we won't see until season 5? Pshh. They are getting worse by the episode.:frown:

I'm an unrepentant lurker, but after watching this drivel I slogged through ten 'the server is too busy' messages to register an account just so I could chime in with the disappointment.

Why do all of the characters act like incomprehensible monkies? I'm beginning to think the big 'mystery' of the island is that it's a Darwinian setup to cleanse the world of the truly special brand of idiocy everyone there seems to possess.

Watching a teenage girl take down a troop of armed guards with a slingshot was bad enough, but watching the Grizzled-Other-with-a-Gun talk her down with fear in his eyes as if she were holding a detonator instead of a ruddy stick with a rubber band tied to it was so dumb it hurt me inside.

And obviously whatever STD Sawyer gave Kate inhibits higher brain function, since they stayed in the bloody cage all night with the door open even though Sawyer was supposed to be killed the next morning. Awesome!

Sayid apparently has monster-amnesia, the Jesus-Stick-telegram was laughable, and Mr. Eko deserved better. Only Jack still seems to display any sort of intelligence, but I'm sure they're just waiting until February sweeps to give him his lobotomy. But I won't be sticking around to see it.
You are so right. Hmmm-I wonder if the Others have transportation to our island lying around, Sawyer doesn't think, and maybe now that my cage is open, Kate and I might try to find one of their boats or such and escape, Sawyer doesn't think. Wonder if I should tell Eko about the time I was pulled around by black smoke, Locke doesn't remember.
Hmmm, how will I deal with my anxiety about 13 weeks without Lost, this viewer doesn't think.

Start telling us about the Others, their purpose, DHARMA, it's purpose, introduce the FLAME hatch, introduce eye-patch guy, use Desmond, Danielle, and the Others for flashbacks revealing past island experiences! I am dying for a Danielle flashback, but we've yet to see one. Introduce the Hanso and Widmore storyline and its tie-in to DHARMA and the island. Give us more from our characters flashbacks (ex. how did Locke become paralyzed?). Tell us how and why smokey was created, what its purpose was. Show us the radio tower! There are so many things going on with this island and on the island that can be developed but the writers are failing to take it anywhere. Instead we are wasting time on romance storylines. I just hope things change when they come back from break.

I am totally with you on this, BurningStar. But I have a terrible suspicion that we are never going to get compelling answers to these questions. I think TPTB started out knowing the 1st act of this story and the very end of it, and that's all. They were able to introduce the questions in a very compelling way, but they are unable now to answer them in a way that is equally compelling. All they can do is continue to introduce MORE questions.

I think Javi was interested in telling more of the island's mythology (Dharma/Hanso, et al), but he was cut from the series and given the Experience instead.

TPTB have been relatively immune from criticism for the last two years because their defense has been, "You don't know the WHOLE story yet..."

I think the fans were willing to go along with them and give them the benefit of the doubt as long as we continued to have faith in their story-telling abilities. But this season has been full of so many FLAWS. Plot contradictions and characters acting out of character to further yet another twist and just, well... fatigue. I think the viewers (myself included) are just flat worn out with waiting for answers that, when they do come, are just not very interesting.

And so the whole "wait and see" defense that TPTB have been employing just doesn't cut it anymore. We have been waiting. Very patiently. And we're just not seeing ANYTHING that is even close to what we were led to expect from the mysteries and mythologies that came hurtling at us the day flight 815 fell out of the sky.

Maybe this is why the "mini-season:" They knew the show was getting bad and thought maybe they would have more time by splitting the season up til next year and fix it a bit.

One can always hope.

It is just SO over. Such a shame..... :sadwalk:

The problem with this episode is that the viewer basically knew the same things as the characters did, so there weren't really any surprises or brain teasers. It's much more interesting to know more than the characters, or less, but this one seemed like it was too one the nose, no real surprises. Except for the "try the door" intercom part.. that intercom is always a spooooooOOooky device

Also, when Jack finally has something the others wants, why doesn't he just use it to his advantage and ask reasonable questions? Why doesn't he use it to leverage some kind of negotiation and mutually beneficial meeting between the two groups of people?

If I were Jack, I would agree to perform the surgery on the condition that the survivors be tended to properly, to know the details of the island, and who these people are.

Earlier, when the Others were shrouded with mystery, and Jack seemed powerless, this was excuseable, but now that he has the upper hand-- why?

Also, when he had Ben under anesthesia, why couldn't he have pressured Juliet for details on her scheme?

If Ben really had needed spinal surgery, why didn't he just approach the survivors like a decent person?

These relationships are starting to feel very artificial, the disbelief is getting too heavy to suspend. The direction this episode has made, the changes to the flow of the story and what is to come, seems damaged.

Nikki and Paulo are sacrifices that the fans demand! Chuck them in a volcano, then I'll come running back to watch.

Next February on LOST:
- A serial killer is slicing his way through the castaways...and it's ONE OF THESE PEOPLE (quick shots of Locke, Jack, Sawyer, Hurley, Sayid, Kate, Claire, Nicki and Paulo)
- More Kate/Jack/Sawyer and Charlie/Claire scenes than you can shake a stick at.
- The evil Juliette will stop at nothing to snare control of the Dharma initative...even blackmail.
- Ala General Hospital: more thrilling emergency room nail-biters!
- Who is the father of Kate's baby?
- Locke is kidnapped and replaced by an evil double.
- Claire's baby inexplicably recast as a teen

Now you're talking...sounds better than what they might have for us.

I think I might have to change my user name to "FIND LOST".

I want to change mine too. After seeing Season 3 Losties, it is demeaning...

*Sigh* I'll just await February and hope for some new answers.

If I were Jack, I would agree to perform the surgery on the condition that the survivors be tended to properly, to know the details of the island, and who these people are.

But that would mean we were still seeing the real Jack, the Jack that TPTB spent 2 seasons building. Instead, we have Bizarro-Jack. Just like we met Bizarro-Kate, Bizarro-Sawyer, Bizarro-Sayid, Bizzaro-Desmond and Bizarro-Locke this season. Thankfully, they offed Mr. Eko before his Idiot-Twin could take over and start running around acting like he was an accountant in his previous life instead of a killer-priest.

Bizarro-Jack gets soooo upset about Kate and Sawyer getting it on (nevermind that they've been CONDITIONED to get it on by the Others) that he abandons his role as leader of the survivors and selfishly asks Ben to get him off the island? Uh....

This is the same Jack that found the cave to protect the survivors, trekked through the jungle, hauled DYNAMITE in his backpack and blew up the hatch... to protect the survivors. Has risked life and limb over and over and over to protect the survivors.

Oh, well. If Jack doesn't manage to get off the island (and send them back a crash cart if you do, for pete's sake!), at least we can all look forward to another beating in Sawyer's future. That Jack is a mighty jealous fella...

I keep hoping that we'll find out in February that this whole mini-season was just another Hurley hallucination...

:wavey: creme & Jomamma

I never thought I'd be posting in this thread either but I'm just beyond words.


Bizarro-Jack gets soooo upset about Kate and Sawyer getting it on (nevermind that they've been CONDITIONED to get it on by the Others) that he abandons his role as leader of the survivors and selfishly asks Ben to get him off the island? Uh....

This is the same Jack that found the cave to protect the survivors, trekked through the jungle, hauled DYNAMITE in his backpack and blew up the hatch... to protect the survivors. Has risked life and limb over and over and over to protect the survivors.

Oh, well. If Jack doesn't manage to get off the island (and send them back a crash cart if you do, for pete's sake!), at least we can all look forward to another beating in Sawyer's future. That Jack is a mighty jealous fella...

I keep hoping that we'll find out in February that this whole mini-season was just another Hurley hallucination...Actually I found the stuff in the fish tank all part of Jack's plan. There's numerous cuts to him noticing the camera & he gets mad before Sawyer is even mentioned. As soon as Kate says "You have to do it" he thinks, looks up at the video, & then suddenly goes into it.. He knew Ben was watching to see if he caved to Kate-hence the follow up scene to show Jack had bested him; Benry- "get her out of there".... If it was about jealousy imo Jack wouldn't have bothered creating an opportunity for both Kate & Sawyer to run.

Don't mean to invalidate your opinion though..I just found Jack & the touching Jate scene in the Hydra the only saving grace of this ep. I hope I can isolate Jack from the other travesties that occurred yesterday after 3 yrs of viewership.

And so the whole "wait and see" defense that TPTB have been employing just doesn't cut it anymore. We have been waiting. Very patiently. And we're just not seeing ANYTHING that is even close to what we were led to expect from the mysteries and mythologies that came hurtling at us the day flight 815 fell out of the sky.

I agree with this. I wouldn't mind if this season had the things it has shown but also kept, at least a glimpse, the elements that brought us to watch the show. There's no more internet browsing for philosophers or physics, or magic, or comics...there's just a debate on a love triangle. Boring.


'Eat all the food our you'll have to watch "I Do" '

I was looking for this in the "kates choice thread" but alas it seems that i cannot read many un-biased posts or opinions so i was wondering what you non-shippers think of where Jate / Skate is heading if you didn't like what happened with it today ?

I know i didn't. I thought the cinematography was excellent in the Jack / kate scene and that the acting was great for the final scene although it wasn't at all the best scene for a cliff-hnager...

Wow this thread has grown and it's only 1 day after the show aired. I wonder how many pages it will have left. The only saving grace was Jack. I was hoping that he would pull a Willard and kill all of the Others, but :cnsored2:. The shippy stuff was too nauseating for words. :puke:

*Sigh* I'll just await February and hope for some new answers.

Okay, but Paulo will still be in the bathroom, Kate will still be a wimpy mess, Jack will still be a martyr, Eko will still be dead, Sawyer will still be getting his arse kicked on a daily basis, and slingshot girl will still be still be bouncing around like some sort of Wonder Woman wannabe. I'm just sayin....

:wavey: creme & Jomamma

I never thought I'd be posting in this thread either but I'm just beyond words.

Actually I found the stuff in the fish tank all part of Jack's plan. There's numerous cuts to him noticing the camera & he gets mad before Sawyer is even mentioned. As soon as Kate says "You have to do it" he thinks, looks up at the video, & then suddenly goes into it.. He knew Ben was watching to see if he caved to Kate-hence the follow up scene to show Jack had bested him; Benry- "get her out of there".... If it was about jealousy imo Jack wouldn't have bothered creating an opportunity for both Kate & Sawyer to run.

Don't mean to invalidate your opinion though..I just found Jack the only saving grace of this ep & hope I can isolate him from the other travesties that occurred yesterday after 3 yrs of viewership.

Oh Banshee, hun, it saddens me to see you in this thread, it really does. :unhappy: But back on topic, I do have to agree with you that Jack was acting not selfishly but rather selflessly with regards to his plan on helping Kate (and Sawyer) escape. Jack is the glue that is holding this show together. Having said that, even though Jack carries the show, it is still an ensemble show and should be treated as such. What were the writers thinking in making the mini-season about Skate and virtually nothing else? They need to utilize more of their characters.

I was looking for this in the "kates choice thread" but alas it seems that i cannot read many un-biased posts or opinions so i was wondering what you non-shippers think of where Jate / Skate is heading if you didn't like what happened with it today ?

I am a non-shipper. To me is clear that Kate chose Sawyer. The way it was carried is one of the main reasons I think this episode is the worst of the series -and I must add an ominous "so far"-. Corny, repetitive, predictable. All the things Lost wasn't supposed to be.

Jack saved the epi from absolute doom but still, I can't find a really 'positive' thing to say.

Hey, look at the bright side - LOST can still be saved. If the writers start throwing in some campy sing alongs LOST/Season 3 is poised to become the next Rocky Horror Picture Show.

Oh Banshee, hun, it saddens me to see you in this thread, it really does. :unhappy: But back on topic, I do have to agree with you that Jack was acting not selfishly but rather selflessly with regards to his plan on helping Kate (and Sawyer) escape. Jack is the glue that is holding this show together. Having said that, even though Jack carries the show, it is still an ensemble show and should be treated as such. What were the writers thinking in making the mini-season about Skate and virtually nothing else? They need to utilize more of their characters.



If by some chance they decide to get rid of the character Jack, I can see this show going downhill fast. I tend to agree Jack is the GLUE that hold this show together and making him less than that is the downward spiral for LOST

If by some chance they decide to get rid of the character Jack, I can see this show going downhill fast. I tend to agree Jack is the GLUE that hold this show together and making him less than that is the downward spiral for LOST

Definitely. But with these writers, seeing what they do to the characters, I fear for his fate. Let's just hope Matthew Fox doesn't leave the show (though nobody can blame him with the way things going)

Let me clarify why I did NOT like the episode.
It reminded me of 90210 and Melrose Place all at once.
Because of the gratuitous coverage of the love triangle (which I could care less about).
And did not focus on the Island and its mysteries.

As bad as all the Sawyer and Kate stuff is, I still can't get over the fact of how lame the Others turned out to be.
Where are the ominous Others that would break every bone in your body? Gone.
Where is the constant looming threat of immeninent destruction? Gone.
Where are the Others that trek silently through the jungle? Gone.

Instead, we get cheeseburgers, tv, and OR rooms.
I have the same gripes as many others in this thread so there's no need to reiterate them. I just can't believe that this is the same show that I was watching at the end of season 1.

The only thing that could have saved this episode is if Jack had hacked Ben's spine in half.

For a while I was a bit upset about the direction of the show, but then I remembered that this is network TV- the last thing I equate with honesty and integrity. As long as the show keeps making money, we are going to see more episodes like this one. Take a look at some of the very long unanswered questions lists (they keep growing with each episode) suspense is just fine and no one expects the show to be wrapped up in a neat little package, but it just seems like grab for ratings and advertising revenue, not creativity.
I just jumped this ship.

206 posts! I am just settling in on a business trip, and I'm not sure I'll be able to read all of these posts right now, but I wanted to hop in and say that I did not love it! (nice title change by the way)

I have been sort of wavery this "mini-season" mostly I think because I really took to the Juliet character, but almost none of the other story elements. But this episode was... not good. Notably the much hyped conclusion. Or non-conclusion as it were.

Anyway, I just wanted to get my vote in quick. Carry on... I'll be around.

(Do you think the Others gathered around the TVs with some popcorn during the... "emotional declaration of love" in the cage?)

I would concur with your assessment of Jack, the actor and the character were the only thing redeemable from this episode in my opinion. But even coupled with Locke's moment of biblical inspiration, Jack's story and the "cliffhanger" account for about 10 minutes of screen time. What was the other half an hour? Crap.

Well, that's where the DVR comes in handy. Lost is still 80-90% filler. But by now don't we already know that? I mean if you order filet mignon but you know you are going to get a quarter pounder, why place the order at all? Or why not order something different, like a side order of non-soap opera island storylines? Yeah, it's not very filling, but by now we know not to expect anything better.

I've resigned myself to not expecting much from Lost and watching it as "popcorn" television,

This is exactly the right attitude and probably why I liked what I saw last night.

I love "24" even though it's ridiculously unbelievable because it's just so entertaining and gripping and riveting in a mindless entertainment kind of way. You can let yourself go and every once in awhile when Jack Bauer shoots a bunch of bad guys in that super-spy cold-blooded manner of his, you can shout "that's what you get when you mess with Jack Bauer!" It's a bit farcical.

Given the glacial pacing, prevalent soap opera elements, complete repudiation of anything complex or super-natural, and general terrible writing, how can you enjoy Lost in any other way than the great big expensive B-movie that it is? Last night, you could rise up from your couch and shout "that's what you get Henry Gale, when you mess with Jack Shepard!"

Also... I'm going to tread carefully without "attacking" the poster. Based on previous history I'm a little dismayed by your reaction to the episode. It makes me think you're being contrary for the sake of being contrary, perhaps due to boredom. Which is totally okay. Everyone's entitled to change perspective or opinion, but yours is so jarring it seems a bit disingenuous.

Oh, pshah. I calls 'em like I sees 'em, and I'm not too proud to admit that I enjoyed last night's episode.

Well, that's where the DVR comes in handy. Lost is still 80-90% filler. But by now don't we already know that? I mean if you order filet mignon but you know you are going to get a quarter pounder, why place the order at all? Or why not order something different, like a side order of non-soap opera island storylines? Yeah, it's not very filling, but by now we know not to expect anything better.



This is exactly the right attitude and probably why I liked what I saw last night.

I love "24" even though it's ridiculously unbelievable because it's just so entertaining and gripping and riveting in a mindless entertainment kind of way. You can let yourself go and every once in awhile when Jack Bauer shoots a bunch of bad guys in that super-spy cold-blooded manner of his, you can shout "that's what you get when you mess with Jack Bauer!" It's a bit farcical.

Given the glacial pacing, prevalent soap opera elements, complete repudiation of anything complex or super-natural, and general terrible writing, how can you enjoy Lost in any other way than the great big expensive B-movie that it is? Last night, you could rise up from your couch and shout "that's what you get Henry Gale, when you mess with Jack Shepard!"



Oh, pshah. I calls 'em like I sees 'em, and I'm not too proud to admit that I enjoyed last night's episode.

I can vouch for that. Malachy and I do like episodes every now and again. Mind you the last one I liked was last season, but still.

Plus, Malachy fast forwarded through the garbage, so what was left was pleasant. Heh.

I find it sad to see some of the people posting on this thread that I've come to respect and now I must join them. Lost is lost and I think it is because the original format that was so fascinating, i.e on-island action coupled with flashbacks has become outmoded. When 30-40% of an episode is devoted to increasingly irrelevant, and sometimes nonsensical back-stories, the rest of the episode suffers accordingly.
The flashbacks in this set of episodes were particularly irrelevant except perhaps for Jack's descent into lunatic behavior but even that was mostly a waste of time.
Maybe if they start flashing back to island-related issues or eliminating flashbacks entirely except where absolutely needed, they can recover. Otherwise, this show is on its way out, I'm very sad to say.

Oldwiz

Speaking as someone who has studied medicine,and hopes to one day be in the field of medicine,I would just like to point out that medically speaking,there is no way in hell that anyone would be able to survive what Ben is about to go through.First of all,Jack is prepared to stand there for close to an hour with a severed kidney sack and allow him to bleed(several pints I might add)then he is going to close the wound.Keep in mind after all of this,Jack still has to remove the fatal tumor,which considering he is the only surgeon there, is at least a 5 hour procedure since he must perfrom it solo.Also Ben will more than likely have sever kidney damage or possibly kidney failure either during the surgery or shortly after it.Not to mention the amount of blood Ben will loose from the kidney sack wound would it make it almost impossible to survive a 5 hour long procedure and be able to fight of any infection.But somehow,Ben will surivive all this.My diagnosis?This show makes no sense.And if Lost was lying on an opearting table and I had to save it,I would not give it CPR,I would just let it die.

This is my first bitterness thread. And I am not proud.

I've been faithful for the entire show, I've shrugged off the previous criticism as that of the extremists, who want perfection.

But after these six episodes, I honestly am embarressed to think that I'm disappointed. Very disappointed.

I feel like they're trying to focus on relationships when that is not what this show is about.

Gone are the days when, if there was a X-centric episode, X would be the main character. It seems nothing actually revolves around anyone else anymore.

I sure hope the rest of the season will be more in line with we want to see. I honestly, after being excited to the point of seizure for s2 finale, did not enjoy watching these episodes.

We learned nothing.

It was like the s2 finale never happened, like the writers completely changed their minds.

The only thing I like about this episode is when I heard the phrase 'Jacob's list'. That intrigued me enough to not make this a total loss.

The last ten minutes were the type of content we should be seeing and feeling throughout the episode. Those last ten minutes were the best part of the entire mini-season.

I'm done with my rant, I'm glad to have finally gotten it all out.

They had a chance to LEAVE the cage when, apparently, no one was watching Sawyer and Kate having sex.

So the big cliffhanger is: Jack gives them (another) chance to LEAVE.

Ouch.

They could have, instead, left us with one of the answers to the zillion unsolved mysteries of the island. Yet they chose not to.

They had a chance to LEAVE the cage when, apparently, no one was watching Sawyer and Kate having sex.

So the big cliffhanger is: Jack gives them (another) chance to LEAVE.

Ouch.



Exactly. Kate simply climbs out of her cage, easily knocks the lock off of Sawyer's cage with a few smacks of a rock and then the idiots choose to get it on and hang out in the cage.

THAT IS JUST EMBARRASING.

Why not run and try to get away? It's a life and death situation; try something! Why don't they go hide out in the jungle and put together a couple of make-shift slingshots? Afterall, that seems to be The Others kryptonite! They could take over the whole island if only they had a couple slingshots. EMBARRASING!

Some fans have argued that they're trapped on the island so it's no use trying to run or escape. So then what's the big cliffhanger when Jack gives them another chance to get away?

This is my first bitterness thread. And I am not proud.

I've been faithful for the entire show, I've shrugged off the previous criticism as that of the extremists, who want perfection.

But after these six episodes, I honestly am embarressed to think that I'm disappointed. Very disappointed.

I feel like they're trying to focus on relationships when that is not what this show is about.

Gone are the days when, if there was a X-centric episode, X would be the main character. It seems nothing actually revolves around anyone else anymore.

I sure hope the rest of the season will be more in line with we want to see. I honestly, after being excited to the point of seizure for s2 finale, did not enjoy watching these episodes.

We learned nothing.

It was like the s2 finale never happened, like the writers completely changed their minds.

The only thing I like about this episode is when I heard the phrase 'Jacob's list'. That intrigued me enough to not make this a total loss.

The last ten minutes were the type of content we should be seeing and feeling throughout the episode. Those last ten minutes were the best part of the entire mini-season.

I'm done with my rant, I'm glad to have finally gotten it all out.

I couldn't have said this better myself. I am tired of the crap and want some answers. Quit jerking us around. :mad:

Exactly. Kate simply climbs out of her cage, easily knocks the lock off of Sawyer's cage with a few smacks of a rock and then the idiots choose to get it on and hang out in the cage.

THAT IS JUST EMBARRASING.

Why not run and try to get away? It's a life and death situation; try something! Why don't they go hide out in the jungle and put together a couple of make-shift slingshots? Afterall, that seems to be The Others kryptonite! They could take over the whole island if only they had a couple slingshots. EMBARRASING!

Some fans have argued that they're trapped on the island so it's no use trying to run or escape. So then what's the big cliffhanger when Jack gives them another chance to get away?That's a good way to describe it as is perplexing. When has Kate ever let her being on an island stop her from escaping before? Her/Sayid were like the Professor & Mary Ann w/their plots and Kate's actions in BTR were to get on the raft. Not to mention in her past she's escaped while in custody, driven though roadblocks, crashed cars with herself in them, elbowed the Marshal & the list goes on.

Exactly. Kate simply climbs out of her cage, easily knocks the lock off of Sawyer's cage with a few smacks of a rock and then the idiots choose to get it on and hang out in the cage.

THAT IS JUST EMBARRASING.

Why not run and try to get away? It's a life and death situation; try something! Why don't they go hide out in the jungle and put together a couple of make-shift slingshots? Afterall, that seems to be The Others kryptonite! They could take over the whole island if only they had a couple slingshots. EMBARRASING!

Some fans have argued that they're trapped on the island so it's no use trying to run or escape. So then what's the big cliffhanger when Jack gives them another chance to get away?

That's a good way to describe it as is perplexing. When has Kate ever let her being on an island stop her from escaping before? Her/Sayid were like the Professor & Mary Ann w/their plots and Kate's actions in BTR were to get on the raft. Not to mention in her past she's escaped while in custody, driven though roadblocks, crashed cars with herself in them, elbowed the Marshal & the list goes on.

Yes, exactly! Kate's actions both on the island and in flashbacks just didn't make any sense! Them just hanging out in the cage with the door open... :confused: At least try to get away!

And then in her flashbacks, I just cannot understand the whole thing with her getting married to a policeman while being on the run. I always assumed her marriage was before blowing up Wayne cause it doesn't make any sense for her to settle down as a fugitive - especially with a cop!

Why they didn't try to escape when the cage was open is beyond me and all logic. Even if you couldn't escape the island that they are on, I don't think anyone would just wait around in a cage for their death. Incredibly stupid.

I still can't believe that they would stay in the cage to have sex. The door's open, why not go out and get some privacy if you are that stupid to choose to do that than to try and save your own life.

Barf.

I didn't like this episode at first, but the more I think about it, the more and more ridiculous and illogical it becomes... :(

I hate feeling this way about Lost.

2. This season's focus on relationships has really become heavy-handed. I agree with other posters that it seems forced, and I'm wondering if ABC has told LOST to focus more on relationships to tantalize female viewers looking for a prime time soap opera.

Why must you insult me, my lockean friend? ;)

I'm only halfway through catching up with this thread and it's already much, much more entertaining than the show itself. Busier than ever too.

And stop ragging on Sawyer and Kate's roll in dried up bear poop! They were making love, you Philistines! Do you think he's washed at all since he's hit Ana?

Im just waiting for the 'Dallas' moment - when Kate wakes up and finds the Marshall alive and well and she is in prison.

Where has the suspense and drama gone from Season 1??? When did the writers decide not to look at previous scripts and write each episode in isolation and never refer to previous plots and make the characters seem like they have the memory span of a goldfish and as dense as a tub of lard??

Cliffhanger???? Ive seen better cliffhangers on the Simpsons - who shot Mr Burns was far more interesting than last night's Lost epi.

I loved lost but for me the magic has gone :frown:

Why they didn't try to escape when the cage was open is beyond me and all logic. Even if you couldn't escape the island that they are on, I don't think anyone would just wait around in a cage for their death. Incredibly stupid.

I still can't believe that they would stay in the cage to have sex. The door's open, why not go out and get some privacy if you are that stupid to choose to do that than to try and save your own life.

Barf.

Kate actually tried to escape or rather to get Sawyer to escape his death while she would presumably stay behind to find Jack. It was Sawyer who was content to throw rocks at the food button until Pickett came to kill him.

"Didn't love it?" Are you kidding me?

The absolute worst part about the arrogant hype oozing from all media channels was Locke's supposed Earth shattering "discovery". It's not bad enough that a few weeks ago he torched a polar bear with freakin' hairspray (typing those words alone makes me cringe), but now the big island event (no, dirty cage rutting doesn't count) comes courtesy of The Jesus Stick? He's been reduced to exposition fairy for the two pod people whose names I didn't even bother to remember. And I'm supposed to be grateful for the return of Hunter Locke?

Kate... I can't even go there. Two words: character rape. Same goes for love sick puppy Sawyer.

The ten minutes in which Jack played an awesome hand of poker with The Others (kudos to Matthew Fox for his spot on delivery) aren't enough to redeem an irredeemable string of awful episodes.

I've been trying to stay away from the "Eh" threads for as long as possible because I've been in denial about the dismal state of LOST this season. But after this last episode, I couldn't possibly post anywhere else on this site. So thanks, Clauds, for pointing me out in this direction. Here I am, finally, although I wish I didn't have to be.... :frown: (at least I'm in good company here)

First of all, I'm not an overly critical person and I've never been a fan of nit-picking. I'm more than capable of tolerating some flaws in an episode while still deriving a huge sense of enjoyment from the overall effect. When the overall effect is lessened by extremely poor characterization, dialogue and plot, the minor and major flaws really do seem so apparent that they become impossible to ignore. Things I could easily have shrugged off a few months ago (e.g- questions like why none of the survivors are asking about the boat or Michael) seem to be unforgivable to me now simply because the rest of the show is not redeeming itself in any way. And what's really disturbing me is that it's not just the LOST fanatics who are picking up on the discrepancies, discontinuities and contradictions but casual, disinterested, non-committed viewers. People I know are looking at me now like they don't know whom they consider more retarded- this nonsensical show or the idiot that recommended it to them (me)! :ohwell:

Ok, now on to my thoughts regarding 'I Do'...

The one positive thing to come out of this episode was that they stayed true to Jack's character. I'm glad that instead of having him turning on his friends after having caught them in their state of post-coital bliss, he decided to put his own safety at risk and help them escape. Now that was a huge relief and a good decision on the part of TPTB. However, the embarassing thing is that they managed to heighten the element of surprise here with the help of (of all things) a trailer. If they hadn't released those trailers juxtaposing the Kate/Sawyer sex scene with Jack asking to get off the island, many of us wouldn't have jumped to the conclusion that Jack was going to make a selfish decision based on his emotions anyway, and therefore wouldn't have been so surprised when he did just the opposite. A huge part of the "twist" was relying on the audience buying the sincerity of Jack's desire to leave the island in that scene with Ben- if we hadn't been groomed a week beforehand to believe that contrary to all logic, this man would want to operate on Ben to buy his ticket home simply because Kate sc**wed Sawyer and not him, would we really have been surprised when he did what he did? Afterall, this is the man who had no real home to return to, who never really did anything for personal gain and who despised the Others with a passion. It seems to me that TPTB decided that Jack's emotional reaction to Kate's 'infidelity' was not enough to shake the audience's trust in his integrity, so they thought, 'Right, let's concoct a trailer so that we can somehow throw them off the track here' and dialled up the ABC people.

The sad thing is, even those scenes that could have been really good were ruined by the faulty logic that was inherent in them. For example:

1. During the scene in which Jack was preparing to operate on Ben, I was thinking "Oh crap! So this tumour thing is real"?! (I had kept hoping it was some sort of moral test rather than an actuality, you see) It just seemed beyond weird to me (and the dozen other people I know who watch LOST) that Ben would go out of his way to terrorize the one man whom he would eventually entrust his life to.

2. During the scene in which Sawyer is being led out to be shot, I couldn't be affected in the least because I kept thinking how absurd it was that this Pickett would go into a murderous rage and want to kill Sawyer for something he hadn't even done. You'd think that if he cared that much about revenge, he would ask those who brought the boat back the identity of the person who shot his wife and gone after Sun instead. This whole thing seemed like a very artificial device to put Sawyer's life in danger for the millionth time and to showcase Kate's feelings towards him yet again (feelings which are so deep, I might add, that they can only be dragged to the surface by the corny "life-threatening danger" scenario, since at most other times what we tend to see is disgust, exasperation or annoyance).

And the Kate flashbacks seemed beyond redundant to me. I'm usually a big fan of the flashback technique (and thought Jack's FBs in TOTC were darn good) but in this case, it really felt like they were doing it for the sake of it. We know Kate was married from the 'I Never' game, we know Kate took a pregnancy test because she told Sun so, and we know Kate runs from everything. So what new thing did we need to learn about Kate from these flashbacks- the reason for her marriage ending? Heck, if you just put together the combined information from above (marriage + pregnancy + run), you can arrive at the answer without having watched a minute of the new material. Kate's marriage ended because she almost got pregnant and she got scared and she ran. Wow. And what were their relevance to the on-island scenario anyway? That Kate is not shy of pre-marital sex? :rolleyes:

As for the cage sex scene and Kate's character assassination...now that's stuff for another rant.

I guess this means I'll be dropping by again... :drowsy:

*waves to Claudia and Banshee and Shoegirl*

And the Kate flashbacks seemed beyond redundant to me. (snip) ....and we know Kate runs from everything.





It's ridiclous that we have to endure flashbacks that repeat the same theme "Kate runs from everything" only to find that when it makes sense the most for Kate to run she doesn't. It's this kind of irrational writing that is killing Lost.




Great post by the way ishtar1983. Although I've been posting in these threads for quite some time, it is sad in a way to see so many fans new to this thread.

I just wanted to elaborate a little on my post from before, I was still in shock from watching the season *(cliffhanger..???)
(1)...No need for another backstory from Kate..added nothing to the storyline except maybe that 'shes tired of running'...
(2)...What the hell have they done to Sawyer...?? Last season, Sawyer would have done a good old fashioned smack-down on Pickett before putting a FMJ into his miserable butt.
(3)We knew what was on Eko's jesus stick 2 eps ago...didn't it fall from the sky and nearly nail locke in the coconut..???
(4)Sayid asking about Smokie....????
Okay, I'm not gonna go on and get all annoyed again..but I will say that the episode DID DO ONE THING for me. I finally got off the sidelines and joined the group. Thanks....

My friends and I have literally been goofing on it all day. My favorite part (other than the complete non-tension over whether one minor character would give another minor character a shiner) were the alarms.

Sawyer beats the hell out of Pickett, grabs his gun and is about to escape...no alarms. Kate is climbing out of her cage on a regular basis...no alarms. Jack is escaping his cell, grabbing a gun and pointing it at Henry...no alarms. Girl with a slingshot? CODE RED.


OMFG, this is so true! :biglaugh:
This season was a joke... We can save some really great performances (MF, ME, EM) and that´s it. Oh, yeah, now we have 2 freaking islands too.
That´s all... :doh:
Oh, and the episodes were just the first 6 of the season "of sex and romance". God help us...

The thing I'm reading is almost everyone liked the Jack parts of the episode. That tells me that the writers aren't a bunch of hacks..that there are things they CAN do very well. We do give them credit where credit is due and that bit was well done.

I think what we want, and I admit its difficult, is to have episodes where there aren't bits we have to fast forward through. I know..one veiwer's exciting mystery would be another viewer's big yawn and that's why I say it would be difficult. Yet when you have one part of the episode that almost everyone agrees was the 'good' part shouldn't that send a mesage of some kind?

Write more 'good' parts maybe?
I think Jack's scenes in the episode were awesome. Unfortunately, making Jack the "hero" too often entails diminishing other characters. In this case, Kate and Sawyer are forced to play the passive damsel role so that Jack can "save" them. It's a major flaw in the show, IMO, and has been for a long time. Others are made to look weak so Jack can look strong. It does the show no favors, and IMO it was a big part of the frustration with Jack's character last season. I'm sorry to see they're still doing it.

Now that I see why people hated it I admit they have valid reasons for doing so. I guess we are expecting the same intrigue as we had in the past 2 years but the bloom is gone, the chase is now a crawl. The writers need to give us more substance and less fluff. I hope they will be able to come up with better material over the next 2 months or this series is toast.

1. During the scene in which Jack was preparing to operate on Ben, I was thinking "Oh crap! So this tumour thing is real"?! (I had kept hoping it was some sort of moral test rather than an actuality, you see) It just seemed beyond weird to me (and the dozen other people I know who watch LOST) that Ben would go out of his way to terrorize the one man whom he would eventually entrust his life to. I agree to your whole post but I have to say something to this part. this whole tumor storyline is beyond ridiculous. I'm with you, I thought all the the time that as soon as Jack would agree to operate they'd go like "ok, this is what we needed, now we're going to tell you what we really want from you". then I might could have lived with that. but that they wanted these three for that, and waited two months before kidnapping them (and inbetween they kidnapped some other people, right), terrorizing them etc, instead of just asking a doctor to do an operation... this all is beyond any logic for me. how could they ever expect to want to operate on Ben after what they did? "I want you to want it" - WTF? and if they already knew that Kate is his weak spot, why not threaten her the first day and get Jack to do the operation? I just don't get this whole plot.

but the good thing is, at the end John Locke will save them all with the help of some hairspray.

Does anyone else think its also kind of weird how Sawyer keeps getting that frozen scowl on his face, especially when he kind of rolls his eyes back at the same time? I keep getting flashbacks to Night of the Living Dead when he does that.

Does anyone else think its also kind of weird how Sawyer keeps getting that frozen scowl on his face, especially when he kind of rolls his eyes back at the same time? I keep getting flashbacks to Night of the Living Dead when he does that.


Yeah, I've noticed that too. It especially bothered me in this episode. That expression of hatred and loathing seems ridiculous for someone who chose to stay in an open cage instead of running and atempting to hide or escape.

Sawyer is angry enough to scowl but not angry enough to step out of a cage.

Of course Kate is griefstricken at the thought Sawyer might die but not enough to make any effort to do what flashback after flashback after flasback after flashback has told us she does best; RUN.

So much of Lost is based on poorly contrived situations and ridculous character decisions. And those decisions often directly contradict what TPTB have gone out of their way to tell us about the characters.

Please, not another plot device that hinges on knocking someone out (blow to head*, drugged drink, stun gun). It seems it is used 5 times every show. Write in a way that it's not necessary.

*some characters have had so many blows to the head they'd have brain damage by now.

i wasnt convinced about the last two episodes but this one has really pushed it over the edge for me. theres about a hundred points people have made in this thread that i agree with.

its just got so overblown and ridiculous (especially that Kate/Sawyer soft-core scene), nothing makes any logical sense any more, and overall the show just feels so dumbed down - wow action, romance, all the characters reduced to single-celled thinking.

all the great stuff they set up in the first couple of epsiodes has vanished.

and why the HELL introduce 2 new random characters (heck i cant even rememebr their names) when its obvious there isnt enough time in an episode for the characters they already have.

probably the only plus point to the epi was Nathan Fillion.

This is the first time I have visited the "eh" "didn't like" thread. I hope the writers listen up because we are really disappointed. Sooo many good complaints in this thread. If the show doesn't live up to expections in Feb. this will be the last season.

And then in her flashbacks, I just cannot understand the whole thing with her getting married to a policeman while being on the run. I always assumed her marriage was before blowing up Wayne cause it doesn't make any sense for her to settle down as a fugitive - especially with a cop!

I think this is supposed to lead us to the conclusion that Kate is ironic, has poor judgement, and puts herself in complicated situations (so she can ruuuuuun - cause that's what Kate does).

I think this is supposed to lead us to the conclusion that Kate is ironic, has poor judgement, and puts herself in complicated situations (so she can ruuuuuun - cause that's what Kate does).

She runs unless she is in the same cage as Sawyer, then she does the jailhouse spanky instead...even though she and he could have ran. Holy lame conrtived ship pleasing dumbed down I threw up in my mouth alot scene that was.

I really can't add anything that hasn't been pointed out already, I just want to add my voice to the "Didn't love it" thread. Not only did I not love it, I was downright insulted by it. Actually, I'm insulted by this whole miniseason. What did they give us? A bunch of timewasting flashbacks with the same message every other flashback for that character had. Kate runs, Jack needs to fix people, Sawyer cons. The whole "Other" storyline makes absolutely no sense. There is no continuity, no cohesiveness, only an ever growing trail of plot holes I have no hope of ever being solved. Honestly, if TBTB think that they gave us a cliffhanger that will make everyone be dying for February to come, I want a drink of the Kool Aid they are drinking. I won't be back in February, I'll have more excitement rearranging my sock drawer on Wednesday nights.

We are tired. You, the producers, are testing our patience. We want answers.

Not just answers, but Coherence and Continuity. And no gratuitious making out and cheesy dialogue, please. A little romance is fine, but good romance, not the soap opera variety. Thank you.

First time posting here and I'm sad that it has to be in this thread.

I didn't find Kate's background story interesting at all. I was bored with it and felt it was pointless.

I'm not a shipper and I'm not interested in the love triangle, but, I can understand why Sawyer/Kate slept together because to me it wasn't a mark of their love for each other, to was more comfort sex with both of them thinking Sawyer was going to die. I did however feel the scene was too much and over the top as well as the rest of the forced Sawyer/Kate relationship scenes this season. Sawyer is acting too "lovey-dovey" and it doesn't fit into his character at all - I miss the old Sawyer! I wouldn't want to see her with Jack either however, if Jack was to be with anyone I'd rather see him with Juliet.

The only thing I liked about the episode was Jack and he is the reason I will continue to watch the show in February (well, him and Desmond of course :grin:).

:lol: And you forget Alex and her weapon of mass destruction.
I really like Alex but I did think that catapult was an absurd weapon of choice. Especially against a big guy with guns!

It was dubbed 'Best episode of the year' by the promo and I almost felt I cold have sued ABC for false advertising!
The episode was total crap I've never seen another one like it and I don't want to it speeded right off the rails!

Lost is treading a v.thin line right now.

As bad as all the Sawyer and Kate stuff is, I still can't get over the fact of how lame the Others turned out to be.
Where are the ominous Others that would break every bone in your body? Gone.
Where is the constant looming threat of immeninent destruction? Gone.
Where are the Others that trek silently through the jungle? Gone.

Instead, we get cheeseburgers, tv, and OR rooms.
I have the same gripes as many others in this thread so there's no need to reiterate them. I just can't believe that this is the same show that I was watching at the end of season 1.

The only thing that could have saved this episode is if Jack had hacked Ben's spine in half.



That is why I personally feel that the Others should have remained mysterious and not living in this little utopian suburbia.



Speaking as someone who has studied medicine,and hopes to one day be in the field of medicine,I would just like to point out that medically speaking,there is no way in hell that anyone would be able to survive what Ben is about to go through.First of all,Jack is prepared to stand there for close to an hour with a severed kidney sack and allow him to bleed(several pints I might add)then he is going to close the wound.Keep in mind after all of this,Jack still has to remove the fatal tumor,which considering he is the only surgeon there, is at least a 5 hour procedure since he must perfrom it solo.Also Ben will more than likely have sever kidney damage or possibly kidney failure either during the surgery or shortly after it.Not to mention the amount of blood Ben will loose from the kidney sack wound would it make it almost impossible to survive a 5 hour long procedure and be able to fight of any infection.But somehow,Ben will surivive all this.My diagnosis?This show makes no sense.And if Lost was lying on an opearting table and I had to save it,I would not give it CPR,I would just let it die.


I was wondering about that. I do not have a medical background but know enough that Ben would go into shock with the amount of blood loss. I seem to recall that the machines were showing his heart defibbing. (if that is the phrase) Wouldn't his body start to shut down? I agree Lost seems to be losing it. I also think that the show is in CARDIAC ARREST

I just recently joined these boards hoping for some insight and answers to the show. I have been an avid viewer and fan since my oldest daughter turned me on to Season One of Lost.

I remember watching Season One and telling all of my friends about how great this show was. By far the best thing on television. During Season Two, I thought the show began to meander but I still talked about it with fellow Lost fans although I didn't recommend it as highly to others. And that brings us to Season Three. I no longer recommend the show to anyone, the people I used to talk to about Lost don't really seem that enthused about it anymore (same as me) and haven't even kept up with the episodes.

While watching this last episode of Lost, even my family members were making comments. My oldest daughter, who had first turned me on to this show, was making remarks on inconsistencies in the plot. My wife, who has been a huge fan, was disgusted with Kate and what has happened to her character as well as other aspects of the show.

I am glad for this thread. At first I wasn't sure if I was being overly critical of the show but seeing last weeks TCOL "eh thread" and this thread for "I Do" tell me that many others feel the same way.

It's really too bad. Lost has become a train wreck of a soap opera. It could have been so much more.

This season is weak, and cannot live up to expectations. There are so many things wrong with the season as a whole that 60% of viewers in US weekly magazine basically said this is Lost's worse season and I agree. I kinda hope the new people (nikki and fabio, or whatever is name is) getting eaten by a polar bear in the background while screaming lol. Hurley says "dude do you hear something." lol and then walks off.
Kate's character took some pretty bad blows and in my book is out for the count. She used to be my favorite character, or one of them anyway, and now I just don't feel sorry for her, or think she deserves much sympathy. Sawyer's character has gone boring, and I think this ends the Kate/Sawyer love stuff. There is nowhere left to go with it. They had their cake and ate it too. Ohh well, so many things I don't like about lost anymore..........

I think the writers are counting on viewers sticking around because of the intellectual invvestment so many have put into this show over the previous two years. I think they took a step back so far this season to set themselves up for the second half of the series. I heard that they expected the viewers to think Lost jumped the shark here. I find that interesting. While the last episode totally sucked, they seem to be getting some stuff out of the way (the whole Skate non-sense) and causing enough twists to keep them going.

While I don't think the show has actually jumped the shark yet (that has yet to be determined), I do think that this last episode was made to satisfy a very specific audience - the romance crowd - while at the same time giving the rest of the fans some immediate breathing space to kind of forget about this whole mess before jumping back into the main story again. I think it is pretty obvious to TPTB and the fans that if a new episode was released this week after last week's train-wreck of an episode, viewership would definitely be down..

[quote=mj;1275824]That is why I personally feel that the Others should have remained mysterious and not living in this little utopian suburbia.

I don't know, in a way suburbia can be quite scary.

For me, I don't understand why the Others would re-create a suburban world when the island seems to be one of greater possibilities. The island offers an escape from "the real world" and yet it seems as if the Others are content with living in organized communities with happy little book clubs and so on.

Well, that's where the DVR comes in handy. Lost is still 80-90% filler. But by now don't we already know that? I mean if you order filet mignon but you know you are going to get a quarter pounder, why place the order at all? Or why not order something different, like a side order of non-soap opera island storylines? Yeah, it's not very filling, but by now we know not to expect anything better.



This is exactly the right attitude and probably why I liked what I saw last night.

I love "24" even though it's ridiculously unbelievable because it's just so entertaining and gripping and riveting in a mindless entertainment kind of way. You can let yourself go and every once in awhile when Jack Bauer shoots a bunch of bad guys in that super-spy cold-blooded manner of his, you can shout "that's what you get when you mess with Jack Bauer!" It's a bit farcical.

Given the glacial pacing, prevalent soap opera elements, complete repudiation of anything complex or super-natural, and general terrible writing, how can you enjoy Lost in any other way than the great big expensive B-movie that it is? Last night, you could rise up from your couch and shout "that's what you get Henry Gale, when you mess with Jack Shepard!"



Oh, pshah. I calls 'em like I sees 'em, and I'm not too proud to admit that I enjoyed last night's episode.

:whew: Thank science. I thought I was losing my grip for a minute... Up was down, left was right, black was white... You, Malachy, were enjoying an episode.;) You could see how I was alarmed.:biggrin:

Sidebar... black/white... If I were to write a podcast question to Lindelof and Cuse asking "Hey are we ever going to find out what those black and white stones found on Adam and Eve were all about?" what's the over/under on their answer being, "That's an extremely important question which we will be addressing at some point later in season three, possibly season four."?

You are correct sir, Lost is absolutely a television show that has to be watched on a dvr. Between the commercials and flashbacks you're looking at about 25-30 where you actually have to pay attention. I guess I was kind of hoping against hope that maybe, just maybe they might pull something off that would require me to sit up and go "Well, that's not what expected at all." But, alas, I was indeed served the luke warm quarter pounder with pickles and onion substitute. So I guess I'll go back to just ordering the a #3 with a coke and hope nobody's arm hair ends up in my parfait.

VIVA LA POPCORN!

I heard that [the writers] expected the viewers to think Lost jumped the shark here. I find that interesting.

TPTB say the Jump the Shark big-twist moment is somewhere in the middle of the full season, not at the end of the mini-season. I think they said we'd get two "bombs", a character bomb 2 or 3 episodes into the spring season and then the big bomb 2 or 3 episodes later, which would be about half-way through the full season.

:whew: Thank science. I thought I was losing my grip for a minute... Up was down, left was right, black was white... You, Malachy, were enjoying an episode.;) You could see how I was alarmed.:biggrin:

I'm starting to get the feeling I upset the balance of the universe or something by praising I Do! :hide: I just hope tha sea otters don't come after me!
100%
To add to that, imagine viewership three months after the train-wreck. Lost just started what is the equivalent of a summer hiatus, yet I don't think TPTB gave the audience anything "meaty" (for lack of a better word) enough to get the masses to drop whatever routine will have settled in place between now and February and switch back to Lost.

Or maybe I'm just speaking for myself. :)

I think I've seen a few fans in this thread express, how shall I say, wishful thinking when it comes to connecting their displeasure with the show and a corresponding collapse in the show's ratings.

Not that I've spent much time contemplating Lost's ratings (:hypocrit: ), but while it's true Lost suffered through a relentless season-long slide in ratings during its second season (from about 23.5 million viewers for the season premiere down to about 14.5 million viewers for the penultimate episode of the season), Lost's third season ratings have not only bounced back a bit (to an average of about 16.5 million viewers), they have remained remarkably consistent for the past five episodes -- suggesting that not only is the slide over, but Lost has finally settled into a core audience of viewers who are likely to tune in for an original episode no matter the competition or quality of the show.

That's not say that American Idol won't impact Lost when it returns in the spring -- or even than a number of viewers won't bother returning after another long hiatus -- but it's extremely doubtful Lost is going to experience the kind of season-long bleed it experienced last year since it's not starting out at such an inflated number artificially built up by hordes of "casual" fans.

Which all just goes to say, I don't think TPTB are worried about ratings or have cause to be worried about ratings and certainly won't link the issue to critical opinions expressed about the show.

Malachy - I was going to respond to one of your earlier posts, but now I can't find it. You were talking about how in the first season of Lost, no one knew anything, so folks were able to participate in the show by coming up with all these super-theories (purgatory, etc).

I wanted to comment that this reminds me of the way humans see patterns and pictures in all sorts of random things, like clouds, for example. It seems the human brain is just hard-wired that way. As the series progressed, and we began to get more information, we no longer got the pleasure or excitement of creating these patterns and pictures on our own out of the seemingly random clues.

The problem, of course, is that the answers TPTB are giving us now can't really compare to the cloud-pictures we saw on our own. Mostly because they're not actually giving us any answers. They're giving us more information, but at best, this only serves as a way to narrow the pool of possible answers. It doesn't give us a definitive answer. In other words, we don't know for sure who the Others are, but we are beginning to get a fuzzy picture of who they are not.

I agree to your whole post but I have to say something to this part. this whole tumor storyline is beyond ridiculous. I'm with you, I thought all the the time that as soon as Jack would agree to operate they'd go like "ok, this is what we needed, now we're going to tell you what we really want from you". then I might could have lived with that. but that they wanted these three for that, and waited two months before kidnapping them (and inbetween they kidnapped some other people, right), terrorizing them etc, instead of just asking a doctor to do an operation... this all is beyond any logic for me. how could they ever expect to want to operate on Ben after what they did? "I want you to want it" - WTF? and if they already knew that Kate is his weak spot, why not threaten her the first day and get Jack to do the operation? I just don't get this whole plot.

but the good thing is, at the end John Locke will save them all with the help of some hairspray.

I thought the scene with Jack in the operating room was going to be like something out of The Muppets ( you know when Swedish Chef was going to chop a chicken and the chicken would lift it's head, look at the camera and start making noises or singing, with all the other chickens running around in the background singing along ) I expected Ben to lift up his head and start singing " I've really got a tumour, it wasn't just a rumour "

Bizarre and the whole thing seems contrived just so we got the moment with Sawyer on his knees about to be shot. Cliches By Numbers.

And Kate reduced to this ? Making out with Sawyer in a cage and then shouting at Jack " i can't leave without you ".

Not good.

Why wait until season 7 for the zombie season? Someone phone up Simon Pegg and get him working it right now. That would be hott!

These six episodes have been nothing more than a poorly written and conceived soap opera. This episode, in particular, was the worst of the entire series.

I hope they got all of that daytime soap out of their system, but I'm not optimistic.

Malachy - I was going to respond to one of your earlier posts, but now I can't find it. You were talking about how in the first season of Lost, no one knew anything, so folks were able to participate in the show by coming up with all these super-theories (purgatory, etc).

I wanted to comment that this reminds me of the way humans see patterns and pictures in all sorts of random things, like clouds, for example. It seems the human brain is just hard-wired that way. As the series progressed, and we began to get more information, we no longer got the pleasure or excitement of creating these patterns and pictures on our own out of the seemingly random clues.

The problem, of course, is that the answers TPTB are giving us now can't really compare to the cloud-pictures we saw on our own. Mostly because they're not actually giving us any answers. They're giving us more information, but at best, this only serves as a way to narrow the pool of possible answers. It doesn't give us a definitive answer. In other words, we don't know for sure who the Others are, but we are beginning to get a fuzzy picture of who they are not.


The post was deleted and I was given a point by the mods for being "chatty". (Hell if I know what that means. :smile: )

Exactly my point and there were many examples of this in I Do. (Gotta make sure to reference the episode in this post! :) ) Pickett's bizarre fixation with Sawyer (revenge for Colleen? What did he have to do with her death?), Alex's slingshot rampage (bratty teens), and Juliette's attempted coupe (apparently they don't know how to communicate either) are more instances of the Others revealing themselves as just as flawed and dysfunctional as the Losties. (I mean, they wore costumes!) And their inability to treat Henry without Jack's help also goes to show they aren't somehow "all-powerful". (Not to mention Henry's illness is yet another example that the island's so-called "healing power" is pure fantasy.) And don't even get me started on the rock-breaking exercise.

When you think back to last season's cliffhanger with Jack and Sawyer and Kate going under the hood, could you have possibly imagined that all they wanted was for Jack to perform a surgery and to use Kate and Sawyer as leverage to get him to do so? Probbaly not, because that's just so BORING. But that's what it was. No pyschic experiments, no grand conspiracies of life-long manipulation, no tapping into some otherworldly island power, no fountain of youth. These are just a bunch of people living on the island and they needed a doctor to help one of their own. That's it.

Frankly, the more we see the Others in action, the more getting answers to the prevailing mysteries of their history and agenda seems pointless since all the grand theories about their supposed supernatural and conspiracy elements have been shot to hell (they didn't cause or even know about the plane crash, they found out about the Losties because of access to and contact with the outside world, they didn't even know about Desmond's boat, etc.).

Really, the only difference between the Others and the Losties seems to be that the Others were on the island longer.
100%
It was in this thread, and posted just a few hours ago. I got distracted and when I came back online to respond to it, it was gone. I don't know if I'm just missing it or if it was deleted. It's too bad if it really is gone. It had some very insightful stuff in it.

I think I wrote two posts on the subject and they were deleted by the mods, but they were kind enough to PM one of them to me with my warning, so I will post it as a sepereate thread within the "Lost Talk" section for anyone who would like to read it.

It Was All Just Too Much.

Too many meaningless turns, too many instances of characters behaving out of character (e.g., Jack not getting anything more than Ben's word that he'd get him off the Island, Sawyer kneeling for execution "because of love," etc. etc. etc.), too many random characters (Alex running on set, the two new "beautiful castaways" Nikko and whazzername, and now who the heck is "Jacob" and his list? why should we care??), too many unresolved questions from S1 & S2...the Fall Finale didn't feel like Lost. The previous week's Eko episode DID feel like the old Lost -- with an emphasis on character and mysticism and fate and the supernatural. This new dreck with the Others just feels like a bad made-for-TV prison movie.

Please, producers, get Lost back on course! You're losing the magic and risking going the way of The X-Files, where it ended with barely a whimper and legions of fans who didn't give a rat's *** anymore...and didn't watch. Save Lost while you can!!!

Wow.

What an utter catastrophe. Everyone knows Kate is no Mary Poppins, but at least she had some honor, and some dignity. I'm by no means a shipper, but all the nonsense with Sawyer came out of the clear blue sky. Sex in a cage, while being taped, with a guy who has dumped all over her for two seasons? Not only has the show thrown the viewers under a bus, they've thrown Kate under it too.

Exactly. I just don’t understand how they arrived at the ‘creative decision’ to have Kate have sex with Sawyer in a bear cage. No matter what angle I look at it from, I just can’t find a way of justifying it.

Plot-wise, it makes no sense. Kate feeling sorry for Sawyer should not automatically lead to pity sex. Anything- tears, embraces, frenzied escape plans- would have made more sense than staying behind in an open cage to have sex and cuddle up when Sawyer could be killed the next day. The fact that Jack gives them the chance to do later what they could have done at the moment they traded sex for possible escape does not make things any more comprehensible to the viewer.

Character-wise, it makes no sense. This is the girl who claimed she’d never had a one-night stand. This is the girl who rolled her eyes at Sawyer’s sexual ‘needs’ and commented “Not everyone is like you, Sawyer”. This is the girl who sardonically rebuffed every advance and suggestion Sawyer has ever made towards her. This is the girl who has been making eyes at another guy the whole time she has been on the island. And now suddenly, out of overflowing pity and worry, she initiates sex with Sawyer. Right.

Theme-wise, it makes no sense. This was a moral setback for the show, because despite the pretty violin music, the grim reality of the situation is that these two characters are shown having unprotected sex in the open in a dirty polar bear cage while being taped by their kidnappers. Very uncool. Not to mention the fact that one of these two also had unprotected alfresco sex with another character less than two weeks ago. We were also repeatedly informed that this same male character has a history of STDs. If the writers wanted the audience to accept Kate's decision to have sex with Sawyer, they could at least have made it abundantly clear that Kate loves the guy. Instead, they go to great lengths to force a “confession” out of her only to have her retract it- why? I’m completely stumped. :confused:

Now, I’m not suggesting that emotional, unplanned sex doesn't happen in reality or that the writers' main duty is to reform the audience. My major gripe is that they have been rather hypocritical with their attitude to morality on this show. Especially in the first season, you could really detect a strong moral, didactic current in every episode (honour, loyalty, forgiveness, compassion, etc). The fact that the two main characters took almost two years to even share a kiss really fooled me into thinking that this was not your average sexed-up tv show. Yet in the space of six episodes, the writers have managed to undermine all that. This was not what I expected from LOST. As another poster put it,

I mean im all for premiscuous sex on lets say a show like nip tuck, or grays anatomy, but lost just dosnt come across as a show where people screw every other episode.

Infact, after watching 'I Do', I was left wondering if the writers intended to completely revise their ethical code. Because here's what I gathered.

How to get your girl, according to the writers of LOST:

1) Forget making her feel special and different from every other woman in the world. According to the writers of LOST, what you need to be doing is telling her she is exactly like all the women you’ve ever been with (especially if this includes prostitutes, widows and married women used to conning their husbands). “I know your type…yeah, I’ve been with girls like you” (Pilot 2) should do the trick.

2) Adopt a cave man mindset. Casually flash her an eyeful of you-know-what as you are emerging from your ablutions (CM). No better way to a woman’s heart than parading your virility, especially when your rival is a fool who treads the ‘genteel’ path. Guava seeds? Eh? Real men don’t waste time dallying, they cut right to the chase, you fool.

3) Leer at her at every given opportunity. Especially when she is forced into a revealing dress and made to bend over while breaking rocks (GB), and asked to strip in full view of everyone (EMFH).

4) Make suggestive remarks that imply that she wants nothing better in the world than to sleep with you. “How about you come a little closer and warm me up?” (CM) should work. Or smile salaciously as someone else proposes she take her dress off (GB). Think positive reinforcement.

5) Reveal her biggest, most dangerous secret to everyone you know (BTR). Alienating her from the group might very well drive her into your arms.

6) Con her. Preferably multiple times. Use her desire to help a suffering girl (CM), her feelings for someone else (TLC), whatever, it doesn’t matter. So long as you make her look like an utter fool afterwards.

7) Get yourself into life-threatening situations (COL, EMFH, ID). Nothing like pity to jolt her hormones.

P.S- It would help if you remind her of an emotionally/sexually abusive relative. That one would really seal the deal.


I am not questioning how well suited Kate and Sawyer are to each other here (that is a shipper debate), but merely why the writers chose to go about the 'consummation' scene in the least satisfactory way possible. Surely by the time they did the first episode of this season they knew what they had planned for these two characters, so I don't understand why they didn't make Kate more receptive to Sawyer and less ambiguous about her feelings for him. But now that they did what they did, I hope they intend to make Kate stick to her choice because I think most viewers are sick to death of this whole triangle stuff by now.

I am very disappointed with 'I Do', on every level, and I'm seriously wondering whether things could possibly pick up from here next season. I don't want to come back to more of this soap-opera quality stuff... :frown:

Exactly. I just don’t understand how they arrived at the ‘creative decision’ to have Kate have sex with Sawyer in a bear cage. No matter what angle I look at it from, I just can’t find a way of justifying it.

Plot-wise, it makes no sense. Kate feeling sorry for Sawyer should not automatically lead to pity sex. Anything- tears, embraces, frenzied escape plans- would have made more sense than staying behind in an open cage to have sex and cuddle up when Sawyer could be killed the next day. The fact that Jack gives them the chance to do later what they could have done at the moment they traded sex for possible escape does not make things any more comprehensible to the viewer.

Character-wise, it makes no sense. This is the girl who claimed she’d never had a one-night stand. This is the girl who rolled her eyes at Sawyer’s sexual ‘needs’ and commented “Not everyone is like you, Sawyer”. This is the girl who sardonically rebuffed every advance and suggestion Sawyer has ever made towards her. This is the girl who has been making eyes at another guy the whole time she has been on the island. And now suddenly, out of overflowing pity and worry, she initiates sex with Sawyer. Right.

Theme-wise, it makes no sense. This was a moral setback for the show, because despite the pretty violin music, the grim reality of the situation is that these two characters are shown having unprotected sex in the open in a dirty polar bear cage while being taped by their kidnappers. Very uncool. Not to mention the fact that one of these two also had unprotected alfresco sex with another character less than two weeks ago. We were also informed that this same male character has a history of STDs. If the writers wanted the audience to accept Kate's decision to have sex with Sawyer, they could at least have made abundantly clear that Kate loves the guy. Instead, they go to great lengths to force a “confession” out of her only to have her retract it- why? I’m completely stumped. :confused:

Now, I’m not suggesting that emotional, unplanned sex doesn't happen in reality or that the writers have a duty to reform the audience. My main gripe is that they have been rather hypocritical with their attitude to morality on this show. Especially in the first season, you could really detect a strong moral, didactic current in every episode (honour, loyalty, forgiveness, compassion, etc). The fact that the two main characters took almost two years to even share a kiss really fooled me into thinking that this was not your average sexed-up tv show. Yet in the space of six episodes, the writers have managed to undermine all that. This was not what I expected from LOST. As another poster put it,



Infact, after watching 'I Do', I was left wondering if the writers intended to completely revise their ethical code. Because here's what I gathered.

How to get your girl, according to the writers of LOST:

1) Forget making her feel special and different from every other woman in the world. According to the writers of LOST, what you need to be doing is telling her she is exactly like all the women you’ve ever been with (especially if this includes prostitutes, widows and married women used to conning their husbands). “I know your type…yeah, I’ve been with girls like you” (Pilot 2) should do the trick.

2) Adopt a cave man mindset. Casually flash her an eyeful of you-know-what as you are emerging from your ablutions (CM). No better way to a woman’s heart than parading your virility, especially when your rival is a fool who treads the ‘genteel’ path. Guava seeds? Eh? Real men don’t waste time dallying, they cut right to the chase, you fool.

3) Leer at her at every given opportunity. Especially when she is forced into a revealing dress and made to bend over while breaking rocks (GB), and asked to strip in full view of everyone (EMFH).

4) Make suggestive remarks that imply that she wants nothing better in the world than to sleep with you. “How about you come a little closer and warm me up?” (CM) should work. Or smile salaciously as someone else proposes she take her dress off (GB). Think positive reinforcement.

5) Reveal her biggest, most dangerous secret to everyone you know (BTR). Alienating her from the group might very well drive her into your arms.

6) Con her. Preferably multiple times. Use her desire to help a suffering girl (CM), her feelings for someone else (TLC), whatever, it doesn’t matter. So long as you make her look like an utter fool afterwards.

7) Get yourself into life-threatening situations (COL, EMFH, ID). Nothing like pity to jolt her hormones.

P.S- It would help if you remind her of an emotionally/sexually abusive relative. That one would really seal the deal.


I am not questioning how well suited Kate and Sawyer are to each other (that is a shipper debate), but merely why the writers chose to go about the 'consummation' scene in the least satisfactory way possible. Surely by the time they did the first episode of this season they knew what they had planned for these two characters, so I don't understand why they didn't make Kate more receptive to Sawyer and less ambiguous about her feelings for him. But now that they did what they did, I hope they intend to make Kate stick to her choice because I think most viewers are sick to death of this whole triangle stuff by now.

I am very disappointed with 'I Do', on every level, and I'm seriously wondering whether things could possibly pick up from here next season. I don't want to come back to more of this soap-opera quality stuff... :frown:

Ishtar,

Magnificent post.

Happy Birthday.


I hope we would get more consistent characters in the second half of S3, but these so-called bombs that have been talked about don't give me any peace or new faith in TPTB.

What saddens me, is they can improve the writing (it'll be a shocker - but I'm going to hope) , they can bring back the consistency in the Locke, Sayid, Charlie, and even Sawyer characters (more paddles to the heart, but its doable with work and input from us!!) . But the S3 writers and Darleton may very well have completely ruined Kate. (And I don't think she was the most loved character by most folks to begin with). Too bad for Evie.

Exactly. I just don’t understand how they arrived at the ‘creative decision’ to have Kate have sex with Sawyer in a bear cage. No matter what angle I look at it from, I just can’t find a way of justifying it.

Plot-wise, it makes no sense. Kate feeling sorry for Sawyer should not automatically lead to pity sex. Anything- tears, embraces, frenzied escape plans- would have made more sense than staying behind in an open cage to have sex and cuddle up when Sawyer could be killed the next day. The fact that Jack gives them the chance to do later what they could have done at the moment they traded sex for possible escape does not make things any more comprehensible to the viewer.

Character-wise, it makes no sense. This is the girl who claimed she’d never had a one-night stand. This is the girl who rolled her eyes at Sawyer’s sexual ‘needs’ and commented “Not everyone is like you, Sawyer”. This is the girl who sardonically rebuffed every advance and suggestion Sawyer has ever made towards her. This is the girl who has been making eyes at another guy the whole time she has been on the island. And now suddenly, out of overflowing pity and worry, she initiates sex with Sawyer. Right.

Theme-wise, it makes no sense. This was a moral setback for the show, because despite the pretty violin music, the grim reality of the situation is that these two characters are shown having unprotected sex in the open in a dirty polar bear cage while being taped by their kidnappers. Very uncool. Not to mention the fact that one of these two also had unprotected alfresco sex with another character less than two weeks ago. We were also repeatedly informed that this same male character has a history of STDs. If the writers wanted the audience to accept Kate's decision to have sex with Sawyer, they could at least have made it abundantly clear that Kate loves the guy. Instead, they go to great lengths to force a “confession” out of her only to have her retract it- why? I’m completely stumped. :confused:

Now, I’m not suggesting that emotional, unplanned sex doesn't happen in reality or that the writers' main duty is to reform the audience. My major gripe is that they have been rather hypocritical with their attitude to morality on this show. Especially in the first season, you could really detect a strong moral, didactic current in every episode (honour, loyalty, forgiveness, compassion, etc). The fact that the two main characters took almost two years to even share a kiss really fooled me into thinking that this was not your average sexed-up tv show. Yet in the space of six episodes, the writers have managed to undermine all that. This was not what I expected from LOST. As another poster put it,



Infact, after watching 'I Do', I was left wondering if the writers intended to completely revise their ethical code. Because here's what I gathered.

How to get your girl, according to the writers of LOST:

1) Forget making her feel special and different from every other woman in the world. According to the writers of LOST, what you need to be doing is telling her she is exactly like all the women you’ve ever been with (especially if this includes prostitutes, widows and married women used to conning their husbands). “I know your type…yeah, I’ve been with girls like you” (Pilot 2) should do the trick.

2) Adopt a cave man mindset. Casually flash her an eyeful of you-know-what as you are emerging from your ablutions (CM). No better way to a woman’s heart than parading your virility, especially when your rival is a fool who treads the ‘genteel’ path. Guava seeds? Eh? Real men don’t waste time dallying, they cut right to the chase, you fool.

3) Leer at her at every given opportunity. Especially when she is forced into a revealing dress and made to bend over while breaking rocks (GB), and asked to strip in full view of everyone (EMFH).

4) Make suggestive remarks that imply that she wants nothing better in the world than to sleep with you. “How about you come a little closer and warm me up?” (CM) should work. Or smile salaciously as someone else proposes she take her dress off (GB). Think positive reinforcement.

5) Reveal her biggest, most dangerous secret to everyone you know (BTR). Alienating her from the group might very well drive her into your arms.

6) Con her. Preferably multiple times. Use her desire to help a suffering girl (CM), her feelings for someone else (TLC), whatever, it doesn’t matter. So long as you make her look like an utter fool afterwards.

7) Get yourself into life-threatening situations (COL, EMFH, ID). Nothing like pity to jolt her hormones.

P.S- It would help if you remind her of an emotionally/sexually abusive relative. That one would really seal the deal.


I am not questioning how well suited Kate and Sawyer are to each other here (that is a shipper debate), but merely why the writers chose to go about the 'consummation' scene in the least satisfactory way possible. Surely by the time they did the first episode of this season they knew what they had planned for these two characters, so I don't understand why they didn't make Kate more receptive to Sawyer and less ambiguous about her feelings for him. But now that they did what they did, I hope they intend to make Kate stick to her choice because I think most viewers are sick to death of this whole triangle stuff by now.

I am very disappointed with 'I Do', on every level, and I'm seriously wondering whether things could possibly pick up from here next season. I don't want to come back to more of this soap-opera quality stuff... :frown:

I think you nailed it. Great post.

I can only hope that a future episode will show us a Breakfast with Ben scene that explains Kate's ludicrous actions and makes me say "I get it now".

Exactly. I just don’t understand how they arrived at the ‘creative decision’ to have Kate have sex with Sawyer in a bear cage. No matter what angle I look at it from, I just can’t find a way of justifying it.

Plot-wise, it makes no sense. Kate feeling sorry for Sawyer should not automatically lead to pity sex. Anything- tears, embraces, frenzied escape plans- would have made more sense than staying behind in an open cage to have sex and cuddle up when Sawyer could be killed the next day. The fact that Jack gives them the chance to do later what they could have done at the moment they traded sex for possible escape does not make things any more comprehensible to the viewer.

Character-wise, it makes no sense. This is the girl who claimed she’d never had a one-night stand. This is the girl who rolled her eyes at Sawyer’s sexual ‘needs’ and commented “Not everyone is like you, Sawyer”. This is the girl who sardonically rebuffed every advance and suggestion Sawyer has ever made towards her. This is the girl who has been making eyes at another guy the whole time she has been on the island. And now suddenly, out of overflowing pity and worry, she initiates sex with Sawyer. Right.

Theme-wise, it makes no sense. This was a moral setback for the show, because despite the pretty violin music, the grim reality of the situation is that these two characters are shown having unprotected sex in the open in a dirty polar bear cage while being taped by their kidnappers. Very uncool. Not to mention the fact that one of these two also had unprotected alfresco sex with another character less than two weeks ago. We were also repeatedly informed that this same male character has a history of STDs. If the writers wanted the audience to accept Kate's decision to have sex with Sawyer, they could at least have made it abundantly clear that Kate loves the guy. Instead, they go to great lengths to force a “confession” out of her only to have her retract it- why? I’m completely stumped. :confused:

Now, I’m not suggesting that emotional, unplanned sex doesn't happen in reality or that the writers' main duty is to reform the audience. My major gripe is that they have been rather hypocritical with their attitude to morality on this show. Especially in the first season, you could really detect a strong moral, didactic current in every episode (honour, loyalty, forgiveness, compassion, etc). The fact that the two main characters took almost two years to even share a kiss really fooled me into thinking that this was not your average sexed-up tv show. Yet in the space of six episodes, the writers have managed to undermine all that. This was not what I expected from LOST. As another poster put it,



Infact, after watching 'I Do', I was left wondering if the writers intended to completely revise their ethical code. Because here's what I gathered.

How to get your girl, according to the writers of LOST:

1) Forget making her feel special and different from every other woman in the world. According to the writers of LOST, what you need to be doing is telling her she is exactly like all the women you’ve ever been with (especially if this includes prostitutes, widows and married women used to conning their husbands). “I know your type…yeah, I’ve been with girls like you” (Pilot 2) should do the trick.

2) Adopt a cave man mindset. Casually flash her an eyeful of you-know-what as you are emerging from your ablutions (CM). No better way to a woman’s heart than parading your virility, especially when your rival is a fool who treads the ‘genteel’ path. Guava seeds? Eh? Real men don’t waste time dallying, they cut right to the chase, you fool.

3) Leer at her at every given opportunity. Especially when she is forced into a revealing dress and made to bend over while breaking rocks (GB), and asked to strip in full view of everyone (EMFH).

4) Make suggestive remarks that imply that she wants nothing better in the world than to sleep with you. “How about you come a little closer and warm me up?” (CM) should work. Or smile salaciously as someone else proposes she take her dress off (GB). Think positive reinforcement.

5) Reveal her biggest, most dangerous secret to everyone you know (BTR). Alienating her from the group might very well drive her into your arms.

6) Con her. Preferably multiple times. Use her desire to help a suffering girl (CM), her feelings for someone else (TLC), whatever, it doesn’t matter. So long as you make her look like an utter fool afterwards.

7) Get yourself into life-threatening situations (COL, EMFH, ID). Nothing like pity to jolt her hormones.

P.S- It would help if you remind her of an emotionally/sexually abusive relative. That one would really seal the deal.


I am not questioning how well suited Kate and Sawyer are to each other here (that is a shipper debate), but merely why the writers chose to go about the 'consummation' scene in the least satisfactory way possible. Surely by the time they did the first episode of this season they knew what they had planned for these two characters, so I don't understand why they didn't make Kate more receptive to Sawyer and less ambiguous about her feelings for him. But now that they did what they did, I hope they intend to make Kate stick to her choice because I think most viewers are sick to death of this whole triangle stuff by now.

I am very disappointed with 'I Do', on every level, and I'm seriously wondering whether things could possibly pick up from here next season. I don't want to come back to more of this soap-opera quality stuff... :frown:


I just wanna say THANK YOU for that! :ntworthy: :ntworthy: :ntworthy:

Exactly. I just don’t understand how they arrived at the ‘creative decision’ to have Kate have sex with Sawyer in a bear cage. No matter what angle I look at it from, I just can’t find a way of justifying it.
:frown:
I didn't want to quote the entire thing again, but thanks for such a great post. It was a fantastic critical analysis. You said it really, really well!

But the S3 writers and Darleton may very well have completely ruined Kate. (And I don't think she was the most loved character by most folks to begin with). Too bad for Evie.
Kate's a pretty unsympathetic character to start out with, but Evie's magic really brought out a lot of support from the audience. But after this season :drowsy: Quiet frankly I'm waiting for the STD to kick in and she joins the big island in the sky. Which sucks, because I loved Kate, but now she has been centric to the worst episode ever.

And please, SHOOT SAWYER. What kind of kind does the dirty with Ana days ago, and doesn't even tell the women he supposedly loves. After all the horrible things he has done, I wanted to see the gun get fired.

Exactly. I just don’t understand how they arrived at the ‘creative decision’ to have Kate have sex with Sawyer in a bear cage. No matter what angle I look at it from, I just can’t find a way of justifying it.

Plot-wise, it makes no sense. Kate feeling sorry for Sawyer should not automatically lead to pity sex. Anything- tears, embraces, frenzied escape plans- would have made more sense than staying behind in an open cage to have sex and cuddle up when Sawyer could be killed the next day. The fact that Jack gives them the chance to do later what they could have done at the moment they traded sex for possible escape does not make things any more comprehensible to the viewer.

Character-wise, it makes no sense. This is the girl who claimed she’d never had a one-night stand. This is the girl who rolled her eyes at Sawyer’s sexual ‘needs’ and commented “Not everyone is like you, Sawyer”. This is the girl who sardonically rebuffed every advance and suggestion Sawyer has ever made towards her. This is the girl who has been making eyes at another guy the whole time she has been on the island. And now suddenly, out of overflowing pity and worry, she initiates sex with Sawyer. Right.

Theme-wise, it makes no sense. This was a moral setback for the show, because despite the pretty violin music, the grim reality of the situation is that these two characters are shown having unprotected sex in the open in a dirty polar bear cage while being taped by their kidnappers. Very uncool. Not to mention the fact that one of these two also had unprotected alfresco sex with another character less than two weeks ago. We were also repeatedly informed that this same male character has a history of STDs. If the writers wanted the audience to accept Kate's decision to have sex with Sawyer, they could at least have made it abundantly clear that Kate loves the guy. Instead, they go to great lengths to force a “confession” out of her only to have her retract it- why? I’m completely stumped. :confused:

Now, I’m not suggesting that emotional, unplanned sex doesn't happen in reality or that the writers' main duty is to reform the audience. My major gripe is that they have been rather hypocritical with their attitude to morality on this show. Especially in the first season, you could really detect a strong moral, didactic current in every episode (honour, loyalty, forgiveness, compassion, etc). The fact that the two main characters took almost two years to even share a kiss really fooled me into thinking that this was not your average sexed-up tv show. Yet in the space of six episodes, the writers have managed to undermine all that. This was not what I expected from LOST. As another poster put it,



Infact, after watching 'I Do', I was left wondering if the writers intended to completely revise their ethical code. Because here's what I gathered.

How to get your girl, according to the writers of LOST:

1) Forget making her feel special and different from every other woman in the world. According to the writers of LOST, what you need to be doing is telling her she is exactly like all the women you’ve ever been with (especially if this includes prostitutes, widows and married women used to conning their husbands). “I know your type…yeah, I’ve been with girls like you” (Pilot 2) should do the trick.

2) Adopt a cave man mindset. Casually flash her an eyeful of you-know-what as you are emerging from your ablutions (CM). No better way to a woman’s heart than parading your virility, especially when your rival is a fool who treads the ‘genteel’ path. Guava seeds? Eh? Real men don’t waste time dallying, they cut right to the chase, you fool.

3) Leer at her at every given opportunity. Especially when she is forced into a revealing dress and made to bend over while breaking rocks (GB), and asked to strip in full view of everyone (EMFH).

4) Make suggestive remarks that imply that she wants nothing better in the world than to sleep with you. “How about you come a little closer and warm me up?” (CM) should work. Or smile salaciously as someone else proposes she take her dress off (GB). Think positive reinforcement.

5) Reveal her biggest, most dangerous secret to everyone you know (BTR). Alienating her from the group might very well drive her into your arms.

6) Con her. Preferably multiple times. Use her desire to help a suffering girl (CM), her feelings for someone else (TLC), whatever, it doesn’t matter. So long as you make her look like an utter fool afterwards.

7) Get yourself into life-threatening situations (COL, EMFH, ID). Nothing like pity to jolt her hormones.

P.S- It would help if you remind her of an emotionally/sexually abusive relative. That one would really seal the deal.


I am not questioning how well suited Kate and Sawyer are to each other here (that is a shipper debate), but merely why the writers chose to go about the 'consummation' scene in the least satisfactory way possible. Surely by the time they did the first episode of this season they knew what they had planned for these two characters, so I don't understand why they didn't make Kate more receptive to Sawyer and less ambiguous about her feelings for him. But now that they did what they did, I hope they intend to make Kate stick to her choice because I think most viewers are sick to death of this whole triangle stuff by now.

I am very disappointed with 'I Do', on every level, and I'm seriously wondering whether things could possibly pick up from here next season. I don't want to come back to more of this soap-opera quality stuff... :frown:


This is a very well written analysis and I applaud you for stating it so eloquently :clap: :clapping: I couldn't agree more with everything you said. I remember reading a comment that one of the writers or producers "claimed" that these characters are the same characters we were first introduced to in season one. I wholeheartedly disagree. If "I do" is any indication, some have done a complete 180 turn around. I understand that people change and characters have to change to keep things interesting, but the regression done on Kate's character within these first six episodes was a poor decision to make. Like you beautifully stated, they should have written Kate to where she was more receptive to Sawyer's feelings about her, because then the sex scene could have atleast been reasonably acceptable. I, like many, was appalled by the whole scene and the "out of the blue" Kate's supposed love for Sawyer came from. :thmbdown:

I think the fans were willing to go along with them and give them the benefit of the doubt as long as we continued to have faith in their story-telling abilities. But this season has been full of so many FLAWS. Plot contradictions and characters acting out of character to further yet another twist and just, well... fatigue. I think the viewers (myself included) are just flat worn out with waiting for answers that, when they do come, are just not very interesting.
Exactly. I've never been impatient to find answers because for the first two seasons the epsiodes were well-written and a pleasure to watch. But it was apparent to me from the first few minutes of ATOTC that something had drastically changed: the writing, the style, the "look and feel" of the show all had gone suddenly and drastically downhill.

I think Jack's scenes in the episode were awesome. Unfortunately, making Jack the "hero" too often entails diminishing other characters. In this case, Kate and Sawyer are forced to play the passive damsel role so that Jack can "save" them. It's a major flaw in the show, IMO, and has been for a long time. Others are made to look weak so Jack can look strong. It does the show no favors, and IMO it was a big part of the frustration with Jack's character last season. I'm sorry to see they're still doing it.
I loved Lost when it felt like a true ensemble show. Jack was one of my least favorite characters, but I didn't mind him because there were plenty of good stories with the characters I cared more about. If Lost becomes too heavily dominated by Jack, to the expense of the other characters, it will be one more factor driving me away from the show.

My jaw practically *dropped* when Sayid (a main character) asked about the monster!! :eek2:
Especially since back in Season 1 Sayid specifically spoke about it to Danielle: "It might be that thing out there -- the monster." It seems that the episodes this season are being written in a vacuum; there's no effort to make the actions of the characters consistent from one episode to the next, and the writers don't even remember what characters have said in previous seasons.