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sjb121590
10-11-2006, 10:30 PM
Okay, I know that a glass ballerina was used in the beginning of the story, but why was the entire episode named after it? I don't understand that. I mean, there could've been other names that better fit the episode. Please. Explain.

Charlie
10-11-2006, 10:32 PM
I think it symbolizes the fragile innocence that most everyone in the flashbacks seemed to lose (Sun, Jin, and Jae). And even outside of the flashbacks- Sun shooting Colleen.

IceKat55
10-11-2006, 10:33 PM
Sun's lie about the glass ballerina got the maid in trouble/fired.

Her lie about her affair got her lover killed.

the business
10-11-2006, 10:33 PM
genius charlie, genius

sickotriz
10-11-2006, 10:33 PM
I think it symbolizes the fragile innocence that most everyone in the flashbacks seemed to lose (Sun, Jin, and Jae). And even outside of the flashbacks- Sun shooting Colleen.

Colleen totally had it coming. I would have been mad if Sun hadn't shot her.

Angela12
10-11-2006, 10:34 PM
I hadn't thought of it before, but I'm interested in people's theories that the episode starts with Sun breaking the glass ballerina and denying she did it and then ends with Jae falling from the balcony. Did he fall... or was he pushed?

Tachyon
10-11-2006, 10:34 PM
so i posted it elsewhere but i think it's a parallel between sun breaking the ballerina and pushing Jae to his death... i realize it sounds stupid but i really think she did it...

DarthKosh
10-11-2006, 10:35 PM
It shows that Sun is not as innocent as she seems.

SLAVEMOM
10-11-2006, 10:38 PM
I thought Sun was going to tell her father she broke the ballerina at her lovers funeral

strwbrryflke86
10-11-2006, 10:38 PM
Okay, I know that a glass ballerina was used in the beginning of the story, but why was the entire episode named after it? I don't understand that. I mean, there could've been other names that better fit the episode. Please. Explain.

What title would you suggest? Not trying to be snarky - just curious. ;)

Tyler Durden
10-11-2006, 10:56 PM
What title would you suggest? Not trying to be snarky - just curious. ;)


How about "86 years" or whatever it was since the Sox won the series. That would have given away the ending though.

TheGunslinger
10-11-2006, 11:05 PM
I think it symbolizes the fragile innocence that most everyone in the flashbacks seemed to lose (Sun, Jin, and Jae). And even outside of the flashbacks- Sun shooting Colleen.

I agree. In many ways, when I saw the Glass Ballerina fall, I thought of Tennessee Williams' play The Glass Menagerie. It reminded me of the concept that, like glass, people are very fragile.

And her lying was in order to show that the main theme of this episode was trust. It was really all about who could trust who, and if you cannot trust someone does that mean that they are not worthy of being forgiven. Also, it touched upon the idea that lies can destroy not only others but the individual.

In reality, this was an amazing title for this episode. It was well thought out.

GettinLost
10-12-2006, 12:12 AM
I think it symbolizes the fragile innocence that most everyone in the flashbacks seemed to lose (Sun, Jin, and Jae). And even outside of the flashbacks- Sun shooting Colleen.

Sun's lie about the glass ballerina got the maid in trouble/fired.

Her lie about her affair got her lover killed.

And She and Sayid lying almost got them all 3 killed.

so i posted it elsewhere but i think it's a parallel between sun breaking the ballerina and pushing Jae to his death... i realize it sounds stupid but i really think she did it...

This a most interesting observatioin!!! I like this theory!! VERY GOOD!

Vertical
10-12-2006, 12:15 AM
The maid totally pushed Sun's lover.. revenge for getting her fired all those years before.

Hehe.

UzerName
10-12-2006, 02:46 AM
so i posted it elsewhere but i think it's a parallel between sun breaking the ballerina and pushing Jae to his death... i realize it sounds stupid but i really think she did it...

ooh, excellent theory. I didn't think of that, but I'll get on board.

How about "86 years" or whatever it was since the Sox won the series.

I was going to suggest a similar title, something along the lines of "The Red Sox are awesome, " except maybe less subtle.

baylady
10-12-2006, 02:56 AM
Nice theories about fragility, but what about it being a dancer? Face it, "dance" is a euphemism for doing something against your will, that is, someone making you do something you wouldn't otherwise do. Seems like her life is controlled by her father, even after marriage. I think this episode showed a lot of fragile people -- not just Sun -- dancng to someone else's orders..

I also thought Jin was loosening up a bit, but he seemed to go back to his older ways tonight. Then again, Sun sometimes gave him reason to not trust her so some of his reactions were understandable and he felt betrayed (once again). Do you think he really knew about Sun's affair? Something tells me he did, or had some suspicion given the way his FIL described it.

Fiver
10-12-2006, 03:04 AM
I think it symbolizes the fragile innocence that most everyone in the flashbacks seemed to lose (Sun, Jin, and Jae). And even outside of the flashbacks- Sun shooting Colleen.

Well done, Charlie. I also think that she betrayal was a theme. She betrayed the maid, betrayed Jin both with the affair, and on the island when she told Sayid she would help him said, and betrayed her father by dishonoring the family. Jin betrayed Sun's father in that he said he would "deliver the message" but didn't do so completely.

Deadshot
10-12-2006, 03:33 AM
I hadn't thought of it before, but I'm interested in people's theories that the episode starts with Sun breaking the glass ballerina and denying she did it and then ends with Jae falling from the balcony. Did he fall... or was he pushed?

This is what I thought as well. Im leaning towards pushed.

shootfire
10-12-2006, 04:16 AM
Nice theories about fragility, but what about it being a dancer? Face it, "dance" is a euphemism for doing something against your will, that is, someone making you do something you wouldn't otherwise do. Seems like her life is controlled by her father, even after marriage. I think this episode showed a lot of fragile people -- not just Sun -- dancng to someone else's orders..

I also thought Jin was loosening up a bit, but he seemed to go back to his older ways tonight. Then again, Sun sometimes gave him reason to not trust her so some of his reactions were understandable and he felt betrayed (once again). Do you think he really knew about Sun's affair? Something tells me he did, or had some suspicion given the way his FIL described it.

I think you're right baylady. When you think about what a ballerina is, she is a female principle in a carefully and elaborately choreographed dance.

nyawka
10-12-2006, 04:17 AM
I would look deeper than just the title. There are often more than just the surface layer here on this show. Fragility, yes, a dance, yes. The whole story is a very fragile dance. A very fragile, transparent beauty, how it may become sullied or transformed into pieces, that may never be quite whole. ALL of King Benry's men cannot put Jack back together again. They all are glass ballerina's, walking through life, missing a piece from here or there. Love seems to be that which has broken most of them the deepest. As we know, love is very often the toughest dance of all, and usually not quite as transparent as a glass ballerina.

shootfire
10-12-2006, 04:20 AM
After giving it a bit more thought, perhaps what the title alludes to is The Glass Ballerina from her father's perspective. Once broken, the glass ballerina is just a mess that needs to be cleaned up. Since its value is now gone, someone has to pay a price for ruining what was his. Hmm...

ETA: Just saw your post nyawka. Good thoughts there. I think we're onto something.

nyawka
10-12-2006, 04:22 AM
Bullseye shoot!

shootfire
10-12-2006, 04:26 AM
Bullseye shoot!

Thanks nyawka. Just thought that I'd add one thing. I just remembered a line from last season used to describe Jack and Kate. Damaged goods. That might apply to Sun in this episode as well.

hellotzp
10-12-2006, 04:29 AM
the way sun's father handled the situation was interesting, too - parallels between the shattered glass icon and sun's affair. in both caseshe was willingto sacrifice someone else in order to maintain an image, in order to allow sun to remain "innocent." first it wasthe maid, then he sacrificed jae lee... though in a way, jin was more of a sacrifice, treated almost as though he was a servant. jin's feelings (and innocence) were secondary to paiks honor, and his daughter's perfect image. he became complicit in the lie. complicity and lies, culpability, shattered truths... yeah, it was a pretty good title. i now recant my comment to my tv watching group that it was a terrible title!

ETA: dang it i guess i wasn't typing fast enough. shootfire your version of this is better - succinct and on the nose - i salute you!

nyawka
10-12-2006, 04:35 AM
Damaged goods. As we see in the flashbacks, there is some tumultuous event that has left them with deep scars. I said love. Jack, Sayid, Kate, Sun, John, even Hurley bird with Libby. But, that may just be a secondary layer. "Sins of the fathers" may be a deeper mystery that has damaged even more.

shootfire
10-12-2006, 04:43 AM
the way sun's father handled the situation was interesting, too - parallels between the shattered glass icon and sun's affair. in both caseshe was willingto sacrifice someone else in order to maintain an image, in order to allow sun to remain "innocent." first it wasthe maid, then he sacrificed jae lee... though in a way, jin was more of a sacrifice, treated almost as though he was a servant. jin's feelings (and innocence) were secondary to paiks honor, and his daughter's perfect image. he became complicit in the lie. complicity and lies, culpability, shattered truths... yeah, it was a pretty good title. i now recant my comment to my tv watching group that it was a terrible title!

ETA: dang it i guess i wasn't typing fast enough. shootfire your version of this is better - succinct and on the nose - i salute you!

:redface: Aww shucks...you guys were saying the same thing. I prefer to think GMTA.:biggrin:

One other thing, it seems like the losties self-image has an awful lot to do with the way their fathers see them. Remember when Sawyer and Jack had that heart to heart about how telling a kid how bad they are enough times makes them start to believe it (paraphrasing)? It's like that father's/father figure's vision of them ,true or not, becomes their vision of themselves. Jack struggled with that also, with Christian telling him that he couldn't cut it. Remember when Sam Austen implied to Kate that she had murder in her heart?

ETA: nyawka beat me that time. :lol:

hellotzp
10-12-2006, 04:57 AM
my tv gang (tv club? lost club?) all got into a discussion of the father-issues theme of the show.

i think this season is definitely starting off strong - last year most of my lost club just watched, and no conversation afterwards. that's why i got into posting here - needed some feedback! but yeah, with both the premier and this episode, they're all talkin' afterwards about the themes in the show. excellent, some good stories are afoot and it is really fun to be discussing 'em with my friends. but i still love my fuselage!


arrgh! trying to post this for EVAR, site keeps timing out...

nyawka
10-12-2006, 05:03 AM
I can't take credit. Go over and check out ole' cap'n tiberius and the crew on his thread. He is the master of the father's sins.;)

Also, check out the screen cap here. Look at the upper right screen. It sure looks to me like the old mr cable from season 1 there in the jungle.

http://gallery.lost-media.com/displayimage.php?album=1181&pos=648

EllsBells1960
10-12-2006, 07:42 AM
How about "86 years" or whatever it was since the Sox won the series. That would have given away the ending though.

But it wasn't a Jack-centric episode.

Ohm
10-12-2006, 09:10 AM
You know, without going too deep (though I don't disagree with most of the "deep" analyses here) it seems to me "The Glass Ballerina" can be summarized as: Sun "breaks" something. Sun lies. Someone else pays.

So now that she's "broken" Colleen, will someone pay? Colleen's last words become reality? Weren't they something along the lines of, "We're not the enemy you think we are, but we will be if you shoot me?" Of course, we've heard that before - Zeke's (Tom's) "crossing the line" speech, for one. I tend to think that they already are the enemy, and all of this "if you go here then we become bad" talk are just lies. Friends don't brainwash and control friends?

Did you also notice that Tom shot at her as she was escaping? Is Sun expendable? If that baby is important, it must be important for someone other than the Others!

DIonisis6
10-12-2006, 09:18 AM
I am assuming it was symbolizing the very first time Sun ever told a big lie that effected someone's life.

creme
10-12-2006, 02:20 PM
I agree. In many ways, when I saw the Glass Ballerina fall, I thought of Tennessee Williams' play The Glass Menagerie. It reminded me of the concept that, like glass, people are very fragile.

And her lying was in order to show that the main theme of this episode was trust. It was really all about who could trust who, and if you cannot trust someone does that mean that they are not worthy of being forgiven. Also, it touched upon the idea that lies can destroy not only others but the individual.

In reality, this was an amazing title for this episode. It was well thought out.


I also believe it's a reference to the Glass Menagerie. Despite my misgivings about the show in general right now, I agree with your assessment here. I appreciated how this theme ties in with the deeper symbolism. I wish they would get back to more of that.

Sleestak
10-12-2006, 02:31 PM
I was going to suggest a similar title, something along the lines of "The Red Sox are awesome, " except maybe less subtle.
"Broken Curses"

ammart81
10-12-2006, 02:46 PM
It's not exatly pumpkin ravioli, if you know what I mean.

Glass ballerina = something that Sun broke and didn't take the blame for, just like she broke her vows, just like she broke her lover (by pushing him off the balcony), just like she broke her husband's trust, just like she broke Colleen. Also, things that shattered, like Sun's innocent persona and the idea that Jin is the baby's father.

Not exactly subtle.

pisceschick
10-12-2006, 02:58 PM
Did you also notice that Tom shot at her as she was escaping? Is Sun expendable? If that baby is important, it must be important for someone other than the Others!

I don't think they know she's pregnant. Didn't she just find out, in Lost time, like maybe a day or two before the current day?

sjb121590
10-12-2006, 05:23 PM
What title would you suggest? Not trying to be snarky - just curious. ;)

"Shattered"

It's what happened to...
1) the glass balerina.
2) Sun's lover
3) Sun's innocence
4) Sayid's plan
5) Colleen
etc...

corvin12xu
10-12-2006, 05:36 PM
The ballerina a symbol of grace and innocense, being made of glass a symbol of outword stength but inner fragility. We are shown it can go from a position of great pride and beauty to a a broken pile on the floor.

The glass balerina is Sun.

sjb121590
10-12-2006, 05:44 PM
The ballerina a symbol of grace and innocense, being made of glass a symbol of outword stength but inner fragility. We are shown it can go from a position of great pride and beauty to a a broken pile on the floor.

The glass balerina is Sun.

I still think the title doesn't make sense. :P

Lost_in_CA
10-12-2006, 06:07 PM
While I agree with a lot of the analogies here, I think the title was simply the writers way of letting us know that our assessment of Sun as sweet and innocent was about to change. They "shattered" that illusion in this epi, so the title seemed very fitting, imo.

And FWIW, I'm glad she defended herself against the Others. I don't think it makes her an inherently bad person, either. If I were faced with being taken by people who've shown no compassion towards plane wreck survivors, I'd hope I'd shoot first, too. I was actually hoping she would shoot a few more, giving Sayid and Jin time to rescue her. I want some heroes and not next year!

lostlocke
10-12-2006, 06:11 PM
first thought I had was it was a big lie that she told, and the episode was full of other lies that would happen later on down the road.

lucky4me8
10-12-2006, 06:21 PM
Great analyses, everyone. I just wanted to add that we didn't see how the ballerina was broken. What if, on some level, it wasn't an accident? I think it shows that even from a young age, part of Sun was rebelling against her father's iron grip - breaking the mold, the idealized version of the woman she was expected to be. Even if it was only on a subconscious level, I think Sun broke the glass ballerina on purpose.

nyawka
10-12-2006, 07:34 PM
Perhaps that certain pose of a ballerina also has a name. The swan perhaps?

zillah
10-13-2006, 03:20 PM
Scene 1:

Young Sun knocks a glass figurine of a ballerina over and it shatters. Her father asks her who did this. It's pretty obvious that she did it, but she pauses and says "the maid." Her father then explains, if you tell me the maid did then I fire her.... Who did this? Again Sun says, the maid.

Scene 2:

Older Sun is caught in bed with an associate of her father's. It seems pretty obvious that her father knew what he was going to find when he came into the room. Her father then tells Jin that he has a "message" to deliver to a man who has shamed him. Jin refuses and says that he quits because he can't go through with this. Her father says that Jin is a son to him and that he must do it for the family honor.

Scene 3:

Jin goes to Jae's hotel room, threatens him, and ends up letting him live. As he is getting to his car, Jae's body falls on it and shatters. He's face up, and gripping the pearls he wanted to give to Sun.

Some backtracking in regards to Sun and Jae:

This was the man that her family set her up with to date. She fell in love with him and enjoyed being with him. Then one day at lunch he mentions how Sun is his cover for an American woman he has fallen in love with. Sun, very emotional, runs out of the restaurant and ends up bumping into Jin.

Sun ends up marrying Jin, who has agreed to work for her father in order to earn the right to be her husband.

Sun and Jin are childless and they go to a specialist to see what is to be done. The doctor tells them that Sun is barren. The doctor later tells Sun that Jin is infertile.

Questions & Thoughts:

1- If Jae angered Sun so much, why did she later end up learning English from him? Jae knows she's already married to someone else. Is this him trying to win her back after the American relationship fell through?
2- Let's assume that they did have a sexual relationship. (It seems obvious, but at the same time there is some ambiguity that the writers can pounce on as they like with future flash backs.) If Sun knows that she isn't barren, why would she be having unprotected sex? (Yeah, I know it's not 100% preventive, etc)
3- So far S3 has been about the truly dark side of the characters. In looking back at some of the past flashbacks with this new information, we can probably get a new perspective on what really makes them tick. Based on what we have seen on Sun in the past, specifically the episode where she discovers that she's pregnant, was she lying to Jin about him being the father? (If she knew she could have children, it would make sense for her to be using protection of some sort with Jae, but not needing to with Jin.)
4- We aren't sure about the timeline of when Jae died and when they left Korea for Australia. However, it does seem fair to assume for the time being that it happened fairly close to when S1 begins. I think for now, there is definitely a question of who's baby it is. Her consternation in regards to realizing that she's pregnant on the island is really puzzling. Why even tell Jin he's the one who was infertile, why not just say, "Hey, the island has cured me somehow!" and leave it at that.... Her telling Jin the truth is admitting to one lie (he was the one who was infertile), and if she DID have a sexual affair with Jae in a manner that could get her pregnant (haha, yes that sounds odd ;)) then she lied again to him by saying she had never been with another man.

5- When does Sun lie? and Why?

When: Young Sun lies about breaking figurine.
Why: To not get in trouble with her powerful father. Plus her father will know she lied at first as well.

When: The doctor tells Sun the Jin is infertile.
Why: Why indeed.... Maybe so that if she gets pregnant by Jae, Jin won't question her like he would if he knew that he himself was infertile.

When: She learns English behind Jin's back.
Why: To leave him.

When: She has an emotional (confirmed) affair with an old boyfriend.
Why: She's leaving Jin because she finds him abusive, and too similar to her father.

When: She pretends to not speak English to the other Losties.
Why: Her husband will know she has lied.

When: The Losties know she speaks English but not her husband.
Why: Her husband will know she has lied.

When: She knows how to use a boat!
Why: Her husband will feel inferior as a man.

When: Sayid and the fire.
Why: Her husband will once again be affirmed that she values other men's opinions over his.

Why Jin is angry with Sun:

- He loves her. But he feels he is not worthy of her. Her father determines Sun's worth and the only way that Jin can be worthy of it is to do whatever her father says. Being called son is like Jin finally feeling he has earned her.

- He has betrayed his roots by aspiring to become more than he was born into. He has a disconnect with his own family and past. But feels Sun is worth it.

- She has betrayed him many times by lying and being deceptive. She also is unappreciative of what exactly he is doing for her. (This is mainly from his perspective that I write.) She has no notice of the sacrifices that have been made to keep her happy.

- She has undermined his authority by learning English without his knowledge. Learning from another man who was an EX BOYFRIEND and Jin's rival in many ways. Instead of having faith in Jin to provide for her, or to understand what he was providing for her... she betrays him by going to another man.

- She lies to him in order to support Sayid, instead of trusting in her husband.

So what do others think about her?

--

I don't necessarily think she's prime evil or the scarlet harlot ;) Everyone has lied about things before, and the ones she lies about aren't necessarily lying for lying's sake.

What is interesting though in regards to sexual relationship with Sun and Jae is that she doesn't tell her father "I didn't do anything!" She just asks if he will tell Jin or not. Her father lies to protect the family honor and to save face... Her father knew that Sun lied about the ballerina, but he still fired the maid. (At least that's the implication.) So, it seems that her father is willing to lie to save her face if it also saves his.

And on another note... Sun has always represented just what her name means in Koren and English (prescious treasure, bright)... This episode is like a symbolic shattering of the image we had of Sun as being more pure than she really is.

erins
10-13-2006, 03:28 PM
Wow, very well thought out and put together! Jin & Sun's plotlines have never been very interesting to me .. but when you put it all out there like this there really is a lot more going on then it seems! Thank you!

Noeland
10-13-2006, 03:54 PM
Uh, yeah, the fact that we found out in season 1 that she could speak english, and had been lying to her husband about it for a long time, that established her as a liar right from the get go. This was nothing new to learn, that she is a liar, or all the reason Jin works for her dad. I'm guessing this was a retread for the new season. I don't know why they keep grinding the same stone with these two characters.

Jin is a good man who doesn't want to kill, and hates her father, but he does it for Sun.

Sun is a lair who would like nothing more than to leave her husband, who she has been lying to about many, many things. Including her baby.

In this episode when she told him "I don't want to be without you again" I said "Because it's all about YOU not Jin."

I think she probably fooled around with Michael too. Why not?

peepstone
10-13-2006, 04:02 PM
And on another note... Sun has always represented just what her name means in Koren and English (prescious treasure, bright)... This episode is like a symbolic shattering of the image we had of Sun as being more pure than she really is.

I love the thought you have put into this. And I loved reading this. The only thing that I would like to add concerns this last paragraph. I think that we not only seeing the shattering of Sun's "good" image from a purity standpoint. I think we are also seeing the inversion of the typical fetishized stereotype of Asian women. If you think back to the first flashback scene between Sun and Jin- they were in a very traditional setting, in traditional clothes, and in traditional roles. Then we saw Sun being passive and Jin being aggressive. We have slowly been given inklings that Sun is not going to fit into the stereotypes so easily (i.e., forcing her way onto the boat with Sayid and Jin) but this week's episode completely confirmed that. Sun did not apologize for the ballerina and she didn't apologize for her affair. Nor has she sought absolution from her father or Jin. She is still keeping secrets of betrayal. And in the end she doesn't seem to mind all that much. Sun is becoming a full character. And to some Western minds that may be horrifying just as to some it may be not that exciting. I just think it's spectacular.

Robinhood56
10-13-2006, 07:05 PM
After giving it a bit more thought, perhaps what the title alludes to is The Glass Ballerina from her father's perspective. Once broken, the glass ballerina is just a mess that needs to be cleaned up. Since its value is now gone, someone has to pay a price for ruining what was his. Hmm...

ETA: Just saw your post nyawka. Good thoughts there. I think we're onto something.

I'm with you, shootfire. I think it is a matter of trust being broken. Sun breaks her father's trust, Jin's trust and in doing so any trust she might have in herself. She comes off as more than a bit selfish, like daddy, perhaps?

You know, without going too deep (though I don't disagree with most of the "deep" analyses here) it seems to me "The Glass Ballerina" can be summarized as: Sun "breaks" something. Sun lies. Someone else pays.

So now that she's "broken" Colleen, will someone pay? Colleen's last words become reality? Weren't they something along the lines of, "We're not the enemy you think we are, but we will be if you shoot me?" Of course, we've heard that before - Zeke's (Tom's) "crossing the line" speech, for one. I tend to think that they already are the enemy, and all of this "if you go here then we become bad" talk are just lies. Friends don't brainwash and control friends?


Wasn't Colleen the one the Task Master of Kate and Sawyer kissed? If so, you can bet someone will pay for her shooting.

By the way. Did anyone else think of the old Tonka truck commercial when child Sun lied? The commercial had a little girl standing by her broken doll house and her mother asks what happed. The child twists her fingers and rolls her eyes and says "Nothin'". Always cracked me up. :biggrin:

interested
10-13-2006, 07:59 PM
I assumed Jae committed suicide.

I hate to give credit to Sun's horrible father, but I think people are totally misunderstanding what Sun's father was trying to do with the glass ballerina. Sun's father was attemtping to teach her a lesson about how dishonesty hurts others. He placed a test before her by putting the maid's job on the line: she must know that lying does not merely protect oneself, it also hurt others.

Sun fails the test, and she fails to learn the lesson. This is why, when Sun asks her father later if he will tell Jin about her lover, he says, "It is not my place to tell him." It is Sun's place to tell the truth, just as it was Sun's place to tell the truth about the figure she broke. She has come full circle. And once again she fails the test--she keeps the truth from her husband. Both times her father stands aside and lets her make her own decisions.

The entire episode is about how dishonesty injures others. It's not really about the ballerina itslef (although all sorts of imagery arises beautifully from that--shattering of innocence, the shattering of life). It's about the lesson the ballerina was intended to teach.

Sayid's dishonesty is a part of that overarching theme. In the end, Sayid is ashamed of his plans, and he admits his failure. Sun, too, is ashamed of her dishonesty--but she does not yet admit her failure aloud.

creme
10-17-2006, 11:52 AM
Right on, interested. It's that sort of subtle, layered meaning that keeps me coming back for more.

AmILost
10-17-2006, 02:58 PM
Because she dropped the glass ballerina and broke it...ah...what's that you say...oh indeed. She then went on to drop yet another ballerina and broke it...Jae.

schoff
10-17-2006, 08:50 PM
The ballerina a symbol of grace and innocense, being made of glass a symbol of outword stength but inner fragility. We are shown it can go from a position of great pride and beauty to a a broken pile on the floor.

The glass ballerina is Sun.
That's basically what I thought the ballerina represented too. Ballerinas are pretty much the epitome of dance, right? Beauty, perfection, etc. etc. But when you look closer, they're not so much. They've got flaws too.

Sun's always been viewed as graceful, perfect, and innocent, despite the fact that she's anything but. She always gets the "Sun is so nice, she does no wrong" treatment, yet she's lied since pretty much the moment we first saw her, and poisoned Michael to boot--among many other crimes. She's far from innocent, and I think this was the episode that was supposed to take the rose-colored glasses off the audience. Sun may be beautiful from the outside, but she's shattered on the inside. In fact, she can be downright ugly.


Sun's father was attemtping to teach her a lesson about how dishonesty hurts others. He placed a test before her by putting the maid's job on the line: she must know that lying does not merely protect oneself, it also hurt others.

Sun fails the test, and she fails to learn the lesson.
ITA. The ballerina represented one thing, but the scene represented something else.

The entire episode is about how dishonesty injures others.
Again, I agree. That was the arcing theme for the whole episode.

carfreak2128
10-17-2006, 08:56 PM
I think they just called it the glass ballerina because it was focused around Suns lying ways, and it represented her first lie, which led to a lfie of lying.

meira
10-18-2006, 06:13 AM
A childs personality is fully formed by age 3. The character of Sun showed her personality when she lied about breaking the ballerina. There is a big difference between being sorry and being sorry your caught. As a child she could look her father right in the eyes and blame it on the maid, and I might add she did it well. All she thought about was herself. Seems to me when she met baldie and had a attraction for him, and found out that he had someone else, again she felt sorry for herself. I always wondered if she really loved Jin or if she was getting older and fearful she would be alone. In the oriental tradition it is shameful not to be married by an appropriate time, and to be considered an old maid. I truely wondered that day as they showed her in the mirror looking at herself getting ready for her wedding if she really loved Jin? All along I have not been fooled about Sun. She appears proper, and pretty, and silent, but she has dark thoughts rolling around in that pretty little head of hers. She appears helpless, but she isn't. Case in point, she snuck behind her husbands back and learned English, keeping it a secret. She kept the fact he was infertile as a secret. Now she knows how to sail and navigate a boat, which was a secret. She kept her pregnancy a secret from Jin. She seemed awfully worried about being pregnant. And the fact that she got pregnant, I guess she would have to tell Jin he was the infertile one, what else could she say? And if I remember she was vowing that no other man touched her but we all remember the far away off look in her eyes when Jin was holding her and we all knew something was up. She had to carry on in some way with baldy, I mean she was naked in his bed. Normally things get hot and steamy before you just get naked and lay in a mans bed. Something happened. And the man bought her obviously expensive oprah length mikimoto 8mm pearls. No man is going to spend thousands of dollars to buy pearls if nothing ever happened before and she hadn't led him to believe she had feelings for him. Years ago I got my degree as a counselor and in personality profiles we were warned about those who act so sweet and innocent and proper are the ones who have the most inwardly to hide. I think there is more to Suns story yet. Every one of those losties is on that island to redeem themselves and purge thier guilt of one thing or another.

The only thing that bothers me is: was her father following her? How did he know she was seeing Jae, as she made Jae keep their meetings secret. Did Jin know or suspect something was going on? We really don't know how the father found out? And who pushed Jae out of that window? He sure didn't seem the suicidal type, and why were the pearls in his hand? No one knew he had pearls for Sun but he and Sun. So what if she followed Jin as she knew he was going on an assignment and after her father found out she probably suspected he either told Jin or gave Jin the assignment of disposing of Jae. Was it her that pushed him over that balconey and was it her that put those pearls in his hand blaming him for her situation, the way she blamed the maid? Lastly, I could see in self defense her shooting the other, but she told Sun straight out she was not the enemy Sun thought she was, however Sun seemed very confident using that gun. I have never shot a guy before, and I am sure I would not be so confident my first time, in fact I would be terrified and would probably have to brace my right wrist to keep it from shaking. Someone mentioned about the other shooting at her with the baby, that tells me this child was no dharma experiment and therefore we can safely assume the child is either Jaes or Jins. Jin is not stupid either, the fact that her father was calling him son and saving the family honor I would thing he could the pieces together. One thing is forsure, the pearls in Jaes dead hand is a dead giveaway that whoever pushed him over that balconey KNEW about Suns affair. Since we know it was not Jin, and we know it was not the father, as he always gets his goons to do his dirty work, who would be left but Sun. The way his hand was gripping those pearls, he seemed dead before he ever hit that car. What if Sun did know how to use a gun? What if she either shot him first or held a gun on him to jump?
Didnt Sun have another woman friend she confided in and wasn't she hiding money to go to the states or english lessons? I seem to recall some elderly Korean woman that helped her. What if the both of them did this together?

green_eyed_colleen
10-18-2006, 01:42 PM
The broken glass ballerina = broken Jae.
Once again I'll go back to an old theory.

There could also be the connection between the LOST of them being responsible for a persons death. If they are truly guilty or just feel responsible it seems there are alot of connections between the LOST and a death.

Jack = his father
Sawyer = notSawyer
Kate = stepfather(true father), Tom
Hurley= the people from the balcony collapse
Ecko= his brother,?( we saw him kill 2 last season)
Sun = Jae
Locke= Boone
Libby= did she feel responsible for her husbands death? Is this why she was committed like Hurley
Anna= heck she had more then 1 death on her conscience
Walt= Did he FEEL responsible for his Mom's death.
Boone =Teresa (falls up the stairs/ falls down the stairs)

OK I will say I wouldn't want to be the LOST's hired help. Teresa got dead and Sun's maid got fired. :p These people are TOUGH on their servants!

I think other than THE GLASS BALLERINA this could have been called CONSEQUENCES as in the consequences of your actions. Because everyones actions did have a ripple effect. From Sawyer kissing Kate getting him shocked, Sayid's failed in estimating the OTHERS would come by land,Sun's staying on the boat which caused her to defend herself. Colleen's running to tattle the LOST had a boat which got her shot when she went to retrieve it.