Ill be updating the island map has new information is discovered in easch episode...

Hosting it on my blog - Check It Out

Is there a key to what each x represents?

the original island map had a ton of locations marked but, the new season has proved inconsistent with the previous seasons, so i left them out this go round..

(Pssst...Jonah promoting your website/blog in posts is against the rules.) Trying to whisper here. Perhaps you could put the link in your signature.;)

I appreciate your post, thanks Jonah!

(Pssst...Jonah promoting your website/blog in posts is against the rules.) Trying to whisper here. Perhaps you could put the link in your signature.;)

:rolleyes:

(Pssst...Jonah promoting your website/blog in posts is against the rules.) Trying to whisper here. Perhaps you could put the link in your signature.;)

I don't think there is anything wrong with what he is doing, since he is providing something worthwhile, as opposed to just plugging his website.

According to the original map linked (and parts of the blast door map), the marked locations on your map are on the wrong side of the island... The other's camp and the tailies camp were both at the north end of the island, no?

Where is the link? please repost it

While I appreciate what you guys are saying, if we let some folks do it and not others, that's not really fair is it? Don't get me wrong, I think the maps are great. Just trying to do my job here. It's really up to the admins/umods if exceptions are to be made. Now let's get back to topic, because this really isn't the place for this discussion.

there's an excellent map from the Lost Experience with EVERYTHING

http://mapgallery.esri.com/2006/414/85121816138512.jpg

NOT my map. just passing it along. It's a BIG jpg file

shootfire...sorry for posting a link...how do we discuss it if i cant post a link to it?...i'm not looking for hits on my site, just a host...i thinks it proves intregal in discussion after each episode....

ammart81...i did that map too...

greg...like i said all the new info has contradicted the old info

the link should be in my sig now....

It's really up to the admins/umods if exceptions are to be made.

So why did you bring it up? Why not leave it to those who actually make the call.

So why did you bring it up? Why not leave it to those who actually make the call.

Because she is a mod and thats her job, and she was actually nice about it even though its against site rules..Oh and the OP doesn't have a problem with the rules or shootfire.. k?

Totally not to be rude, but if we're not supposed to include links, why is there an INsert Link button in the Quick Reply box?

--just asking

Totally not to be rude, but if we're not supposed to include links, why is there an INsert Link button in the Quick Reply box?

--just asking

It is linking to one's own site/blog that is a problem. I thought that was clear in my earlier posts. Now let's move it along so we don't derail this thread.

Jonah, thanks for understanding. :)

Maybe we're getting far enough along in the series that you won't have to significantly change your maps anymore. I hope. Also, I was just wondering, how useful have you found Danielle's maps in creating your own? I was poring over those things in Season 1, blowing them up and getting translations from native French speakers. I was really excited that I had seen a dock on one of her maps. I think it was the Pala Ferry dock.

ETA: According to where you have it marked, it look like it just might be the same dock.

there's an excellent map from the Lost Experience with EVERYTHING

http://mapgallery.esri.com/2006/414/85121816138512.jpg

NOT my map. just passing it along. It's a BIG jpg file

It's a 4mb poster sized jpeg so have your book ready to read if you're going to open up that page.

I remember some folks at blackrock.com last year were the first to try to ID locations onto Danielle's map;http://www.blackrock.nl/content/view/24/42/, and though they may have accurately placed the crashsites, hatch etc.. according to what was told onscreen, it seems tptb have'nt paid as much attention to these details as we have.

If Danielle's maps are a fairly accurate shape of the island, the approximate crash sites would be here; http://img182.imageshack.us/img182/9351/craterev6.jpg, which is'nt anywhere near where the blackrock.com maps set them.

i created the base of the map from her maps...took a while...but i have awesome software so, that helps....the screen of Sayid marking the map last night, was the most detailed and up close they have showed the map - and his arm was blocking most of it...
100%
the locations from the second link are fairly close to where i placed them on the new map (see my sig) ...although, those locations throw a lot of previous map points out of whack...i wonder if we can get the producers to give us a scan of Danielles map....

i created the base of the map from her maps...took a while...but i have awesome software so, that helps....the screen of Sayid marking the map last night, was the most detailed and up close they have showed the map - and his arm was blocking most of it...

Isn't that always the way...:rolleyes: :biggrin: I ran into the same problems trying to read Danielle's maps. The shadow of his arms were a big problem as well. It was a struggle to remove the shadows enough to read without mutilating the words. Of course, I'm no cartographer. I was just trying to read them. :)

i created the base of the map from her maps...took a while...but i have awesome software so, that helps....the screen of Sayid marking the map last night, was the most detailed and up close they have showed the map - and his arm was blocking most of it...
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the locations from the second link are fairly close to where i placed them on the new map (see my sig) ...although, those locations throw a lot of previous map points out of whack...i wonder if we can get the producers to give us a scan of Danielles map....

You did a good job. I tried to take sections from the few good screenshots and flatten them out in photoshop once, and it was tough. Yeah, that shot last night was the best frame we've seen. At least we know the location of the fire, and interestingly, I noticed it was pretty close to Danielle's shipwreck and first camp.

Interesting stuff, but I think possibly inaccurate. For example, careful examination shows that the Others' village, although located in a bowl-like ring of mountains, is actually at a higher elevation than the land beyond, which makes it a plateau, not a crater. The area being at a higher elevation with only a few ways up, easily hidden or guarded from Danielle, would explain why Danielle has not marked the Others' camp on her map, as she doesn't know it exists.

I took the liberty of adjusting your map with my own interpretation (http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e4/Werthead/the_island.jpg). In this version, the crater at the south end of the island doesn't come into it. It's just an area we haven't seen. The Others' village is in the mountains at the northern end of the island, within easy reach of the Pala Ferry and the tailies' crash site. The Door fake village would be nearby as well (I didn't adjust its location as it seemed a minor point). This keeps the Others at the northern end of the island, a long way from the main survivors, which I think is important for continuity (the tailies being menaced by the Others at the northern end of the island; Michael heading north to find Walt; Sayid and co. sailing north).

To get the image you see in the Season 3 opener, all you need to do is reorient yourself so you are facing south. The bay on the left side of the island thus becomes on the right side in the image, upside down from the viewers' perspective. I marked the bay I'm referring to in red. This is supported because all the previous evidence establishes that the tailies crashed nearer to the Others; that the tailies were to the north of the fusies; thus the nearest crash point to the village is the tailies (and you can just about tell that the trail is leading into the water); thus that crash point has to be north of the more distant vapour trail, which would be the fusies. This basically confirms that that image is indeed facing south, which means that spinning the map around you are looking for a large, distinctive bay on the right hand side of the island, and that bay is the only one that fits the bill.

Sorry for the quality but I only had MS Paint to work with.

Werthead - i think the general consensus was that the others village was in the crater...i totally agree with you perspective and i believe i will change the map to reflect that....look for the update soon...

Cheers. I was looking at my map again and realised that it also means not really having to change the plane's route. It comes over to the west of the Others' village, the tail section breaks off and and the rest carries on south to the fusies' crash site. I'm not sure how the cockpit breaks off though. It would have to fall off to the east a short distance, or somehow keeps going further south-east after the fuselage hits the beach, although I think that would violate aerodynamics. Then again, the fuselage staying aloft for at least a few more miles on just one wing does that already.

That crater on the map does bug me though. It's right next to the main beach camp but they've never mentioned it. I think someone suggested they played golf there, but it makes more sense for the golf course to be further north, closer to the mountains (which are looming right overhead in those shots) and more on the route for Eko to bump into Kate and Jack. Who knows?

Updated Island map for viewing pleasure....see the link in my sig or here (http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e198/jonahadkins/theisland.jpg)

Jonah, you do great work! I have one question though - when you say Desmond's Boat - is that where you think the Losties saw him when he sailed back to them? It can't be where Kelvin hid it or Sayid would have seen it before he found the cable. Could you clarify for me please? I am map-challenged.

Smidge: where Kelvin hid it....very rough terrain there, almost unpassable....that is why Sayids trail of solitude goes inland there...

Maybe I'm wrong but I get the impression that both Hurley and Sayid, Sun & Jin left the Pala Ferry dock and headed to their left, which would be South. But looking at these maps the dock is on the North/West side of the island and if you were standing on the dock facing inland, your left would be North. I was under the impression the the dock was on the other side of the island. Also when the Others see the plane break apart are they looking North. It would appear this way as the plane breaks apart moving right to left which would put it on an East to West path. If this is the case how could Goodwin travel from the crater on the Southern most part of the island to the tail section crash site in 1 hour as Benry said it would take.

Good job on the map. I wish there was less discussion about linking and more about the map(s)

I'm also not convinced that Otherville is actually in the 'Crater' marked on Danielle's map.

Smidge: where Kelvin hid it....very rough terrain there, almost unpassable....that is why Sayids trail of solitude goes inland there...


I see - yes, I remember it was quite rocky where Desmond concked Kelvin - perhaps this is also the reason Ben didn't know about the boat. Thanks for the clarification!

Desmond's boat also has to be in that region to be reachable from the Swan in a reasonable amount of time.

I like the new map a lot. I'd have put the Door and the Four-Toed Statue maybe a little further north. At the moment the statue seems to be pretty much in the same place where Sawyer, Michael and Jin saw the water gushing into the sea in the Season 1 finale, suggesting that they'd have spotted it (although, unlike Sayid, they weren't scanning the shoreline with binoculars, so they could have sailed right past it).

The flight path I think is a bit off. From the direction on the map, the plane would have been much, much further away from the Others camp than it appeared in the Season 3 opener. I'd put the path as coming right over the island from the north (between the dock and the village) and carrying down the island in a curving south-easterly direction, losing the tail and the cockpit along the way. Otherwise, good job.
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Maybe I'm wrong but I get the impression that both Hurley and Sayid, Sun & Jin left the Pala Ferry dock and headed to their left, which would be South. But looking at these maps the dock is on the North/West side of the island and if you were standing on the dock facing inland, your left would be North. I was under the impression the the dock was on the other side of the island. Also when the Others see the plane break apart are they looking North. It would appear this way as the plane breaks apart moving right to left which would put it on an East to West path. If this is the case how could Goodwin travel from the crater on the Southern most part of the island to the tail section crash site in 1 hour as Benry said it would take.

You don't actually see Hurley step off the dock. He just walks off-camera. The shot then shifts to Michael in the boat, then to Jack, then to Jack and Kate's glance, then the hoods go on and the scene changes. If he had gone left, it's also possible that the terrain to the south of the ferry is unpassable on the shoreline, so you have to go north, then cut inland and go around to get back to the south.

The Others' village is almost certainly not in the crater, as some people have already commented. It would make no sense at all if it was there. All available evidence puts the Others village in the mountains at the northern end of the island, with Henry and co. looking east as the plane flies overhead (from north to south).

Jonah, this is excellent work. And thanks to werthead as well.

Questions: Where is the Swan? Am I blind? I can't find it.
Also, where is the medical station?

I was going to ask the same thing as Smidge about Desmond's boat. Your answer does make sense though. Love it!

I've put up my own map (http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e4/Werthead/islandmap01.gif) which, frankly, is rubbish compared to Jonah's. Still, they are in broad agreement. I merely moved up the Door/Fake Village and the Toe Statue to a location they are less likely to have been seen by the Raft Crew.

Some notes I coallated for the benefit of another site:

I have no idea where the Black Rock is. It's location is difficult to pinpoint, save that it seems to be on the far side of the Swan from the beach (it's quicker for the survivors to go from the ship to the Swan then to the beach). The beach camp isn't where the fuselage crash site is, but is a way up the beach. Still pretty close to where the crash site was though, so I didn't mark it seperately.

The locations of the hatches is based on the Lockedown map. However, whilst this works for the Swan, Staff and Pearl it falls apart for the Flame (which we haven't seen yet, but would have to be up in the mountains) and the Arrow (which is way, way off to the north; maybe the map wasn't to scale?). How the Hydra fits in (which is even further off than the Arrow) is also unclear. The Radio Tower location is supported by the Lockdown map and by its proximity to Danielle's camp, plus in the Lost Experience shot it's clearly on top of a mountain or hill. Someone suggested that the 'Dark Territory' may be centred on the radio tower, which could be the case.

Desmond's boat had to be relatively close to the Swan but hidden away, which makes it difficult to explain why the survivors didn't find it or why Sayid didn't stumble across it when he followed the coast on his journey. The rocky terrain we saw may have dissuaded Sayid from investigating the area, but it seems unlikely (since Sayid is hardcore, but OTOH this week's episode does suggest occasional lapses in his judgement).

Location of the Hydra is pure supposition. But the northern coast is the only stretch of coastline that has not been explored, plus it's close to the Others' village. Location of the fake village and the toe statue was difficult, but they can't be further south or Sawyer and co. on the raft would have seen them on their earlier trip.

The 'unpassable headland' is where the tailies couldn't carry Sawyer, so turned inland (the mountains presumably aren't too high in that region, maybe just hills and that ridge we saw them climbing) and headed due west, which eventually took Eko and Sawyer to the golf course and the meeting with Jack and Kate.

Hadnt put any of the stations except the door and arrow on my map - waiting for some more concrete evidence as to where they are....it is clear the arrow is in the vicinity shown on my map - that being said it throws the scale of the blast door map way off...

(Pssst...Jonah promoting your website/blog in posts is against the rules.) Trying to whisper here. Perhaps you could put the link in your signature.;)

I also don't see anything wrong with what he did. We really shouldn't get so uptight about such minor things.

Jonah, I liked the map, but where is the hatch? Good job --

Count Chocula :Thanks! I left the hatches off until better infor is discovered..but i guess ill add them just for bearings sake..

On the Blackrock website, someone suggested that the Arrow station actually hasn't been seen yet, meaning it could be in the vicinity shown on the map. What the tailies were in was a sub-station or storage locker (supported I believe by a comment from Damon Lindelof that the Arrow might not be a full station). However, even though that helps it still doesn't explain the Hydra's location.

My guess is that the Lockdown map is a greatly simplified map of the island not taking into account distance issues.

here's the thing about the foot statue....when mike, sawyer, and jin rafted by the mountain drains, it was near dusk...the would have missed the foot statue in the darkness, missed the fake camp, ferry dock, etc...
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Revised again here (http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e198/jonahadkins/the_island.jpg) and in my sig...thanks to werthead for the added guidance....

Jonah, you do great work. What software do you use? Are you working in Illustrator?

I was wondering... about the location of the Swan and Desmond's boat; the two can't be more than about a 50 minute hike apart, or Desmond couldn't have made the round trip in one cycle of the timer. Didn't the Tailies' journey to the Losties' camp take something like three days, though? Your map has the distance from the Swan to the boat as about half of the distance of the Tailies' journey. It seems to me that the Swan should be somewhat further south, then, to accommodate the respective distances.

Also, Desmond's boat was moored in a deep inlet, whose steeply sloping sides hide the boat, as shown in this screenshot (http://gallery.lost-media.com/displayimage.php?album=1085&pos=950). The map shows a fairly straight coastline where you've place the boat. Perhaps the scale of the map simply doesn't allow this inlet to be shown?

all i can say about the map is daaaaaaaaamn !
Jonah i think you should just call yourself "THE map guy" im gonna have to bookmark your blog!

EdMuse - i use ESRI software - more for heavy cartographic analysis and display but i know how to manipulate it to do whatever i want...


Desmonds Boat - the truth is all we know are the facts you stated...i place it there simply because deduction would rule it out anywhere else...i would be okay with placing the swan further south..possibly below the river fork...


SgtMercy - Thanks!

Jonah, excellent job! Do you think you could figure out where the Black Rock is, as well as the place where Danielle set her fake black smoke fire in Exodus? Also I believe The Pearl and Beechcraft should be further north because it took Locke and Eko about half a day to reach it from The Swan. Oh yeah, and Henry Gale's balloon, too.

Ah, good call on the balloon. Ben did draw them that little map to get there. Maybe that would help!

ill see what i can do..

You may be on to something here. That little gap in the crater not matching the one we saw in the aerial shot really throws doubt on the theory that the others live in the crater. At first I just thought it was a continuity thing, but TPTB know we're gonna analyze the hell out of that shot.:)

Anyway, here's a screenshot of Ben's map...
http://gallery.lost-media.com/displayimage.php?album=995&pos=414

EDIT: found another one, shows the balloon location better
http://gallery.lost-media.com/displayimage.php?pos=-63820

this is great Jonah! Thanks for figuring out the map :)

One thing I'm thinking about is the time it takes to travel to various locations. If it takes goodwin about an hour to run from the other's village to the tail section crash site, how long of a walk would it be. Can we use this marker to estimate how long it would take to walk to different places on the map and see if it fits into the rough timelines the show has given. We probably don't have enough info to do this accurately, but it might help with mapping out locations.

The Others' camp to the tailies' crash site should only be about 3-4 miles if Goodwin can do it in an hour through rought terrain (jungle). However, the long shot makes it look a lot further away than that, about 6-8 miles. A fit man could run that distance no problem, but through heavy jungle? OTOH, maybe since the fake village is possibly that way the Others have a trail that they could take most of the way which would be much quicker to follow? There's also Ana-Lucia's statement that Goodwin came out of the jungle only ten minutes after the crash, but she was hardly thinking clearly at that point.

My guesstimate, based on the maps on the Blackrock site, would be that the island is about 10 miles wide by 30-40 miles long.

There's also Ana-Lucia's statement that Goodwin came out of the jungle only ten minutes after the crash, but she was hardly thinking clearly at that point.
By the way, there was a big thread on this possible discrepancy in the Tale of Two Cities forum. I actually ended up asking Gregg Nations about it, and he replied that Ana probably made a mistake on the 10 minutes, due to the stress and chaos of the situation.

this is all great discussion...the balloon route will be tough...ill investigate further...the antenna is different...the only place unexplored would be around othersville - any other place it would have been spotted in reality....

Jonah, you know, that brings up something i was going to run by you, since youre the resident cartographer

do you think its possible to figure out where Sayed had them send up those rockets so he could triangulate a signal for the hand-held radio they had way back when?

im just curious, because im betting they were probably close to some other landmark on your map, and didnt even know it.

Jonah, when I looked at your map the first thing that struck me was that using the route you show for Sayid, Jin, and Sun's rescue trip, the island is on their starboard side.

In LTDA, the island (4-toed statue shot) was shown on their port side.

edited to add: This might be a ~nevermind~. A relook at the episode shows they did the old aesthetic edit thing again, and switched sides in various shots.

SgtMercy: - what were the details from the triangulation??? one on the beach, one up high, and sayid in the valley between the two mountain features...??

lostmio - welcome to the world of alternating camera angles...

And welcome to the world of contradicting evidence;
http://www.lostpedia.com/wiki/Image:Rousseaus-map-translated.jpg
This ground view sketch of Danielle's looks due north in a line with her shipwreck and the crater. According to her bird's eye maps, the line between these two points would have to be running SE

Speaking of Danielle's maps, can you show where a compass heading of 325 would take Michael and Walt from the proposed Pala Ferry Dock? I noticed something interesting in Danielle's maps (http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y226/shootfire/lostep140490rivers.jpg), since I've been looking over them again. If you zoom in to where the rivers empty into the ocean, there are some arrows possibly indicating a current fed by the rivers? Remember Michael and Sawyer were brought back to the beach by a current? Could this be why Desmond sailed west and still ended up back on the island? I guess I'm just wondering if the rafties would have made it if their raft hadn't been blown up.:biggrin:

ETA: Screencap is courtesy of TxVoodoo and numero_cinco on livejournal.

Maybe I'm wrong but I get the impression that both Hurley and Sayid, Sun & Jin left the Pala Ferry dock and headed to their left, which would be South. But looking at these maps the dock is on the North/West side of the island and if you were standing on the dock facing inland, your left would be North. I was under the impression the the dock was on the other side of the island. Also when the Others see the plane break apart are they looking North. It would appear this way as the plane breaks apart moving right to left which would put it on an East to West path. If this is the case how could Goodwin travel from the crater on the Southern most part of the island to the tail section crash site in 1 hour as Benry said it would take.


Jonah, when I looked at your map the first thing that struck me was that using the route you show for Sayid, Jin, and Sun's rescue trip, the island is on their starboard side.

In LTDA, the island (4-toed statue shot) was shown on their port side.

edited to add: This might be a ~nevermind~. A relook at the episode shows they did the old aesthetic edit thing again, and switched sides in various shots.

I also remember that the island was quite consistenly on starboard tack all the time, except on last episode when it was shifting. I love these discussion, that is the reason I watch Lost, but, well, they are filming in a real populated area, not a actually lost island (sigh).

im wondering if Sayid still has the maps...if not they would most likely follow the shore south to the bach camp...they would have to run back into the 4 toed statue, the drains, and the fake camp...and if they dont have the maps and the others do - wouldnt alex find it funny her name being on there..? alot of ifs...

the island in all seems to small, like they should have run into each other eventually. especially danielle

last update before new episode - anxious for feedback on a few new locations...added more new details...see sig...or here (http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e198/jonahadkins/the_island-1.jpg)

Wow, this is coming together spectacularly! Thanks for adding the balloon trek and site and the direction Michael and Walt sailed in. The island is feeling smaller by the day.

That really is a kewl map, jonah. Can't wait to get confirmation on where the Hydra Station is!

Wow, I am very impressed with this map! I was seriously scratching my head after episode 3.01, and all the speculation that OthersVille was in the crater. Jonah, your map is the most detailed that I have seen, and is the one that makes the most sense, taking into account what we have seen on the island.

The only thing I am still not able to wrap my head around is the distance/time inconsistencies (Goodwin running to the Tailsection crash site in an hour... NO WAY, not from that aerial shot we got at the beginning of ATO2C!). I try not to think too much about it though, kind of like Jack Bauer getting across LA in 5 minutes on 24!

Great work, I can't wait to see what you do in the future.

thank you all for the nice comments....

last update before new episode - anxious for feedback on a few new locations...added more new details...see sig...or here (http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e198/jonahadkins/the_island-1.jpg)

That's great Jonah, thanks for putting all this effort into the map. It certainly looks like our rafties were very close to a way off the island if Ben is to be believed. Perhaps that is the reason the Others felt the need to destroy the raft. The rafties weren't simply going to be sailing in circles. I definitely think the key to sailing off the island is to somehow outmaneuver the currents, whether by knowledgeable navigation or pure dumb luck. I definitely think it's cool that this map is consistent with Danielle's, the apparent currents, and with the narrative. Looks like the rafties got caught in the current of the northeast river, which brought them back to the other side of the island. The bottle must have gotten caught in the current of the northwest river.

Wow, I am very impressed with this map! I was seriously scratching my head after episode 3.01, and all the speculation that OthersVille was in the crater. Jonah, your map is the most detailed that I have seen, and is the one that makes the most sense, taking into account what we have seen on the island.

The only thing I am still not able to wrap my head around is the distance/time inconsistencies (Goodwin running to the Tailsection crash site in an hour... NO WAY, not from that aerial shot we got at the beginning of ATO2C!). I try not to think too much about it though, kind of like Jack Bauer getting across LA in 5 minutes on 24!

Great work, I can't wait to see what you do in the future.

I agree sickotriz, the times are very confusing. Since the times have to serve the narrative, I think it's forgivable though. I don't expect the writers to be exact with time. They have a lot of stories to tell, and trying to keep the times accurate might be too, well...timeconsuming, but I do hope they keep their directions accurate. Hopefully, there's a big island map in the writer's room.;)

i would hope they have general map of the island with the locations marked....just for continuity sake..

I just had a look at that last map. It seems really interesting and very detailed, pretty cool.

I think that the location of Rousseau's camp and the cable are wrong though. If I remember correctly, both Sayid and Hurley walked along the beach with the sea on their left when they found the cable. Based on your map that means they walked clockwise, not counter-clockwise to the cable.
Or am I remembering this incorrectly?

when sayid walked onto the cables location the water was on his right..

Thank you so much for all the hard work on the maps everyone, it's much appreciated.

Jonah, I love the "WALT!!!" "But...but....MY BOY! THEY TOOK MY BOY!". Um, right, got it the first 9,000 times you said it, Michael. :)

Disclaimer: crazy Radzinsky and Kelvin might have gotten things wrong. :)

There's a couple of interesting notations on the blast door map that could help.

http://lostpedia.com/images/1/1a/Cleanwall-707484.jpg

1. One is the notation in the upper right hand corner that says "Why so many DHARMATel relays in such an untenable location?". The only reason for so many relays is to service Otherville and The Hydra. Don't know if that matters or changes anything....

2. In the lower right hand corner is says "Possible location of zoological research station"--I'd have placed The Hydra on the northern part of the Island, though, again, the blast door map isn't gospel.

Just a few ideas, again, thanks for the great work.

Good work on the map there. I like the new placement of Desmond's boat. It's close enough to the Swan to make getting there and back work (although not sure if it would be possible in 90 minutes) and doesn't have to explain why Sayid didn't find it on the way north or the tailies on the way south.

How about someone puts up a question for the podcast about do they have a map to work from or not? (I tried to sign up on the ABC message board and it didn't seem to work)

I don't see the point of drawing a map of a fictitious place, when the shape of the island and the locations of certain events have no bearing on the story whatsoever.

TPTB have even said we will never see the entire island, nor will ever know how big it is. Probably since it is an ever-evolving story and indicating the scale of their location might hinder future plotlines.

Next thiing you'll be telling me that MATH is at the center of the storyline!

there's an excellent map from the Lost Experience with EVERYTHING

http://mapgallery.esri.com/2006/414/85121816138512.jpg

NOT my map. just passing it along. It's a BIG jpg file

Is this a joke or for real?

adam8023 - is what a joke or for real...the lost experience map?

adam8023 - is what a joke or for real...the lost experience map?

Yes, the Lost experience map. Is it canon to the show or not?

there was a whole backstory between season 2 and 3 check this site (http://www.letyourcompassguideyou.com) for a summary

the big map i did just summarized into one place and tied it into the show...

there was a whole backstory between season 2 and 3 check this site (http://www.letyourcompassguideyou.com) for a summary

the big map i did just summarized into one place and tied it into the show...

I'm at a lose of words.:eek2:

where have you been?

I never played the Lost Experience because I heard it was an alternate reality game. So I thought it wasn't worth it.

thanks for the map!:biggrin:

Fantastic map. This is such a help to fans. I only hope that the producers are taking the geography as seriously as we all are.

is it just me or does the swan station seem too far away from desmond's boat? it has to be around 54 minutes away for desmond to make it out there and back again in time to just push the button. this was also the first time he'd ever been out of the hatch so he might not know exactly where he was going and could have gotten "lost" on his way back to the hatch after the kelvin incident?

Edit: I concur with everyone else, fantastic job!

Love the map jonah.

I agree with several of you who meantioned the times of travel between several locations. I don't think the writers were paying that close of attention in the beginning but hopefully they are now, since there are so many of us speculating on this very topic.
As for Goodwin running to the tallies in an hr, Ben asked him how soon he could get there and Goodwin said and hour, so we don't know exactly how long it took him. And if the Others real camp is on a higher platau he would be running "down" to the beach and it would take less time then walking or running from the beach to the Others village. Downhill is always faster...lol.

Lets hope we can figure out where Hyrda is after the next few episodes.

trixired - thanks..from one Virginian to another...the travel times are tricky...very tricky..the latest abc podcast said we will find the flame station soo too!

is it just me or does the swan station seem too far away from desmond's boat? it has to be around 54 minutes away for desmond to make it out there and back again in time to just push the button. this was also the first time he'd ever been out of the hatch so he might not know exactly where he was going and could have gotten "lost" on his way back to the hatch after the kelvin incident?

Edit: I concur with everyone else, fantastic job!

trixired - thanks..from one Virginian to another...the travel times are tricky...very tricky..the latest abc podcast said we will find the flame station soo too!

Yeah thining about it more travel time is really difficult because we don't know all the terrain and it's unlikely someone is going to travel in a straight line from point A to point B. Also Desmond's trip to his boat and back probably isn't 54 each way. It's probably something more like 90 minutes one way following Kelvin walking and then 20 minutes running like crazy back to the hatch.

The map is great, I look forward to seeing mroe and more things added to it as the info pours in :)

I don't see the point of drawing a map of a fictitious place, when the shape of the island and the locations of certain events have no bearing on the story whatsoever.
People have been ignoring you comment, but I can't just leave it hanging when Jonah has done such a great service for all of us Lost fans - especially the visual learners! :) I would say that the blast door map we saw in Lockdown pretty much confirmed that the physical space on the island matters a lot. As does the presence of a Dark Territory, a line the Losties couldn't cross, etc etc. The writers are telling us the physical space matters.

Plus, it's a good time.

Originally Posted by John Bender http://www.thefuselage.com/Threaded/images/FuselageGreen/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.thefuselage.com/Threaded/showthread.php?p=1219973#post1219973)
I don't see the point of drawing a map of a fictitious place, when the shape of the island and the locations of certain events have no bearing on the story whatsoever

im guessing you've never played a video game in which you needed to refer to a map in order to follow the story, complete a mission, or anything like that?:confused:
DOOM3= fictitious map & place
HALO= fictitious map & place
LOST= fictitious map & place
Narnia= fictitious map & place

are we seeing a pattern yet? thought so

anyways.....where were we?

jennylee27 & sgtmercy - most people dont understand the importance of the physical wourld they themselves live in...thanks - both of you

Don't feed the trolls.

People have been ignoring you comment, but I can't just leave it hanging when Jonah has done such a great service for all of us Lost fans - especially the visual learners! :) I would say that the blast door map we saw in Lockdown pretty much confirmed that the physical space on the island matters a lot. As does the presence of a Dark Territory, a line the Losties couldn't cross, etc etc. The writers are telling us the physical space matters.

Plus, it's a good time.

or...Ignore the Boar...

jst stumbled on this thread and had to say thank you for the map. maybe you should get a production credit,hehe

thanks!

Awesome map! Thanks for sharing it with the world!

The Bender just pops up now and then to say that everything we (the Fuselage followers and providers) do is pointless or stupid. All you have to do is see the literacy, or lack of it, with which he writes to know who the stupid one is around here.

And mods, I'm not saying this as a provocation to the Bender, it's just so that other, newer Fuselage participants know how to take his comments.




I've been thinking for some time about putting together a map, because it seems strange a decent one hasn't been put together already (not including jonah's), and I was planning to post a thread with the idea of gathering information. I've got some experience of design work and, graphically, I could put together something pretty nice. The thing is, having seen the trouble jonahadkins has gone to in producing his map, I don't want to exclude him from the process. What I was planning to do is open a thread on the General Theories forum and ask for input. I think the way to start is a blank map and debate each entry to make it as accurate as possible.

But, as I say, I'm not trying to usurp jonah here, so, to jonah directly . . .

Do you fancy asking for your thread to be moved to the General Theories forum and opening up some debate as to the EXACT location of everything based on walking times and screen-caps? I'm not saying yours is far off, but some things might be.
Or what might be a better idea, starting a new thread there, linking this one as a reference point, and explaining that the idea is to form a definitive map based on everyone's input and later consensus of opinion.

The graphical side of it is a seperate issue. If you want to maintain it yourself, or if I provide you with an "improved (graphically)" version of a future, revised map is up to you, and, if you decide to update the map that way, we could discuss that through Private Messages.
Just say if you fancy moving the thread or starting a new one and opening the thing up to other contributors or if you'd rather keep your own, personal version, which would be totally understandable and respectable too.

FYI - thread has been moved to General Theories....

Oh excellent! Glad to see this thread is in General Theories, where work on it can continue throughout the series :)

Hey, just an idea...wonder if it would help figure out LOST ;) if we added the locations of all the dreams, and visions?

Like Jack seeing Christian (which led to water, and the caves)
Eko seeing Ana-Lucia (which led to the discovery of her and Libby's bodies at the Swan)

etc.

I'm waiting for Yung24 to join in as he has a 3D map of the Island he's put together.

After the shocking revalation last night - i present to you the updated map....

The New Island Map (http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e198/jonahadkins/theisland.png)

Discuss!

Awesome, yeah, that was a pretty crazy revelation last night. My question is, why did Karl seem to think that he could get to the crash survivors so easily if they are on another island? This leads me to believe that there is some kind of underwater tunnel that connects the two... either that or it is easy to obtain a boat and go to the big island... OR, the water is super-shallow between the two, and you could just run/wade over there ( j/k I SERIOUSLY doubt this one)!


KARL: Hey. Hey, how long would it take to get to your camp?

SAWYER: What, you talking to me now, Chachi?

KARL: From where they got you, how long a walk was it? A day, two days? And what are the people like from your plane?

After the shocking revalation last night - i present to you the updated map....

The New Island Map (http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e198/jonahadkins/theisland.png)

Discuss!



now dont just go inventing islands as they pop up in the show


I called this LONG AGO in my missing islets thread.
and I disagree with where you put your little alcatraz island.

I think its one of the islets to the south of the island.

I will update one of my maps soon...

I think its one of the islets to the south of the island.


The SE island was marked "Alex" on Danielle's map. To me, that's significant.

And, as I was just reading on LostPedia, the image of the island (the contours, etc.) from Rouseeau's map matches up very well with the image seen from the Hydra island, suggesting the map may have been drawn from that vantage point.

I think its one of the islets to the south of the island.

Possible, but unlikely. The Others, by overwhelming evidence, are located on the northern side of the island. I would imagine that the Hydra is located relatively close to their base of operations. However, the small islets to the south of the main Island are confirmed by Danielle's maps and if they have a sub travel times would be rapid enough that the distance isn't too much of an issue. I still think the northern side is much more likely though. The Hydra Island may be difficult to see from the Lost Island given its small size and we already know that Danielle did not penetrate the northern part of the island otherwise she'd have found Othersville, so she may not have reached a vantage point from where the Hydra island is visible.

Based on GoogleEarth maps of Alcatraz, Alcatraz measures 0.3 miles from north-west to south-east and 0.1 miles along its shorter axis. The Hydra Island, at more than twice the size (assuming Ben was underselling it), would therefore be about 1 mile long at maximum, or 1/30th or 1/40th the length of the main island based on the scale worked out at the Blackrock site (which is supported by the longshot of the island in 301 and travel times around the island). i.e. it's probably a little bit too big on your map, Jonah. Making the Hydra Island smaller also makes it likelier that Jin, Michael and Sawyer would have missed it when they passed it (although they passed it at night and it was probably not visible).

Hmm placing the hydra island on the north side makes more sense in terms of no one noticing the island yet, but Danielle's map putting islets with Alex's name on them in the south seem to argue otherwise. From the view that Sawyer and Ben see the island , can we tell if those contours or possible landmarks match any particular part of the map?

Also jonah, I can quite make it out, but did you place the hydra island so following the bearing 325 would lead to this island.

Hmm placing the hydra island on the north side makes more sense in terms of no one noticing the island yet, but Danielle's map putting islets with Alex's name on them in the south seem to argue otherwise. From the view that Sawyer and Ben see the island , can we tell if those contours or possible landmarks match any particular part of the map?

Also jonah, I can quite make it out, but did you place the hydra island so following the bearing 325 would lead to this island.

penyours- Until we get a overhead view everyone could be right, the islands could be part of a chain.

penyours- Until we get a overhead view everyone could be right, the islands could be part of a chain.

do you mean that there could be islands to the north and south of the Lostie island? yeah that's possible and makes it even stragner that Desmond didn't see anything when he was sailing Also, the location of the hydra still needs to be placed.

do you mean that there could be islands to the north and south of the Lostie island? yeah that's possible and makes it even stragner that Desmond didn't see anything when he was sailing Also, the location of the hydra still needs to be placed.

I think if it is a chain the island's are real close to each other, and thats probably why we have not seen the crash of 815 through the pilots eyes it might give away to much. As far as where the hydra is located north or south I like north but Yung has a good point with Ruso's maps.

penyours - placing the island there made sense 'geographically' given the vantage point of Sawyer and Ben - it just "worked out" that it was on that compass bearing...the new island to the north is also where i placed the location of the HYDRA....that station would not be on the blast door map because who drew it had no knowledge of it...

the teeny island to the southwest of the island is too small and too close....the small chain by the pala ferry are also too small and too close....

penyours - placing the island there made sense 'geographically' given the vantage point of Sawyer and Ben - it just "worked out" that it was on that compass bearing..

that is convenient and it makes sense with many posters' earlier specualtions that they were just sending Michael to another island. If he did land on the Hydra island, then the others would just recapture him and Walt and lock them up somewhere. Then TPTB could have them return at any point in the story. Only thing is wouldn't Walt warn Michael as they approached the other island? Actually sorry this is probably OT for this thread.

Yeah, it does seem weird that the island matches up with the 325 direction. I mean, Ben seems so convinced that he is being honest with the Losties.... unless there is some other means of escape from "Alcatraz" we haven't yet seen? I mean, if this island is to the north, then he and Sawyer were obviously standing on the southern side of it. There very well could be something like another dock on the north side.

I was just wondering what we could tell from the raft radar. If we were to assume for one moment that the boat was travelling from the Pala dock to the Hydra island, and looking at the route the raft might have taken, wouldn't that put the second island over on the other side, more to the east?
Not sure about the logic behind that direction, but I do think the radar reference might be usable.

...the teeny island to the southwest of the island is too small and too close....the small chain by the pala ferry are also too small and too close....

Would'nt you agree Lost island approximates the size and shape of Oahu Jonah? I think for obvious reasons they made Danielle maps show an island in the rough size and shape of the place they're filming. Even the crater they drew looks like Diamond Head. Oahu is 44x30 miles in size. Alcatraz is only 18 acres. Double that and you still have a relative speck. The island where the Hydra is, should be close in size to the two small islands E and SE on the map, and the distance offshore looks to me like 2-3 miles from the view of Ben and Sawyer. Consistant with one of those islands.

billyshears - Not likely - 44x33 miles - there is no way anyone could travel those kinds of distances by foot - it took a day and a half for Jack, Sawyer, Hurley, Kate, and Mike to walk from the beach camp to the Pala Ferry dock...

lucidity - that's a very valid arguement - i dont think you could get a directional bearing from the radar blips....more than likely that the boat came from the hydra island and intercepted the raft...

Being from the Bay Area, I gotta say that Alcatraz is a very small Island, Angel Island is more like what the Hydra is on. But, I'm stretching here, Ben and Sawyer were only looking in one direction, and I still have problems with this other Island, where it is and if the Others only work there ar also live there.

Ok why... when the Other attack team takes Desmond's boat they arrive to the Hydra Command Central by land and with a stretcher for Colleen? Why do they bring Jack from within one portion of the Hydra station, Outside, then back into another section of the Hydra Station? Why are they not using tunnels? If they live on the Mainland how do they get to the Hydra? What's really between the two Islands?

Ben has already given sawyer a clue... We are better at the con!

I said that Yung24 has a great map, and I hope it lives up to everyone's expectations.

Being from the Bay Area, I gotta say that Alcatraz is a very small Island, Angel Island is more like what the Hydra is on. But, I'm stretching here, Ben and Sawyer were only looking in one direction, and I still have problems with this other Island, where it is and if the Others only work there ar also live there.

Ok why... when the Other attack team takes Desmond's boat they arrive to the Hydra Command Central by land and with a stretcher for Colleen? Why do they bring Jack from within one portion of the Hydra station, Outside, then back into another section of the Hydra Station? Why are they not using tunnels? If they live on the Mainland how do they get to the Hydra? What's really between the two Islands?

Ben has already given sawyer a clue... We are better at the con!

I said that Yung24 has a great map, and I hope it lives up to everyone's expectations.

There are several man made islands around San Francisco

http://ludb.clui.org/ex/i/CA3119/ Treasure Island is one of them. Although there looks to be mountains on the Hydra Island, so probably not man-made.

Treasure Island is only partially man-made, and that's flat! In fact much of the coast of the City of SF is landfill. After the gold rush many ships were left abandonded at dock and later were sunk to become landfill - great finds today!

Is this a joke or for real?

why would it be a joke?

billyshears - Not likely - 44x33 miles - there is no way anyone could travel those kinds of distances by foot - it took a day and a half for Jack, Sawyer, Hurley, Kate, and Mike to walk from the beach camp to the Pala Ferry dock...

Actually, on a flat, featureless plain or on a road, walking 44 miles in one and a half days is perfectly possible. However, through winding jungle trails, over hills and so forth and when at least one of your party members is a bit on the large size (Hurley), it seems less likely. Maybe 25 miles would be credible, 30 at a stretch, but over forty? Doubtful.

i stand corrected...kinda

Thanks for the update, jonah! That's about where I thought Hydra Island would be!

This map is sooooo great to have! :biggrin:

cool map
i wondered - is there a reason why the black rock isnt marked ?
we know it's in the dark territories dont we ? ( we surely know this better than the radiotower's location )
or maybe it is marked and i missed it......

i stand corrected...kinda

Hmm. Didn't I just back up your idea? Or have I just confused myself? :biggrin:

so where have you put hydra island now ?

link please ?


have you all seen my take on it ?

it looks like TPTB may have actually used a drawing I made showing how things should be..

check it out, its pretty uncanny. I drew this quite a long time ago too

http://img336.imageshack.us/my.php?image=thankyouabc22mp.jpg

now from the show itself..

http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e41/truffula/Season%20Three/Island2.jpg

BAM !!

??

hydra island is the main southern islet :)


btw

this is my missing islets thread from 2005..


http://www.losttv-forum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=11266&page=13

time to get back to the island mapping I guess, its been a year in quantum world.
and it still makes no sense.

jonahadkins: I don't know, something about your map is slightly off? I agree that you've got a good part of it set well, but the Hydra Station Island seems... off. I know it will improve over time, and with Yung24's assistance I hope.

Here's something else I will throw out there. What if some of the "Islands" are "man-made"? Also, remember that Indiana Jones movie when they had to discover the invisible bridge (faith)? Could this be one way to go Island hopping?

jonahadkins needs to incorporate the blast door map with the circular arrangement of stations...

also should place the dark territory closer by where he has desmonds boat.

sayid actually points out the dark territory in season 1.

or he points out danielles temp shelter area, near the dark territory.

its in my 3d thread.

and the hydra does seem wrong imo.

Yung24:

To be fair, I think you need to bring forward a similar map that has already been presented here. Not an eye-level rendition, but a bird's eye layout. I think that you may have to take into consideration that some smaller Islands may have the ability to ... move!:eek2:

I agree, the Black Rock needs to be placed and maybe the "hole" where Locke was almost pulled down. Also Henry Gale's balloon and Drug Plane location. Where the "air-dropped" food supplies for the Swan Station were made. Where Kate and Sawyer killed an Other. Where Walt saved himself from the Polar Bear. Where Shannon was shot.

Also, if it were the 1960's and Alvar Hanso was planning his invasion and construction upon the Island... where would he most likely direct his approach. Think heavy machinery, where would the ships dock or anchor, supplies, where would the crews locate for long term habitation, where would air supply drop materials, etc.

I had the birds eye view in the link provided. it led to my thread at lost-tv.

here is my overhead.
http://img99.imageshack.us/img99/8308/gridislandxo3.jpg

based on this one..

http://img282.imageshack.us/img282/8656/newupadteao8.jpg

which was taken from solitary..
http://img301.imageshack.us/img301/409/danmap0fh.png

http://img301.imageshack.us/img301/8082/danmap29og.png

then flipped to correct the mirrored shot I pulled the map from..
(we know it had to be flipped, because the writing would have been backwords if the map was this way)
http://img208.imageshack.us/my.php?image=skewedback0gv.jpg
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y166/yung23/map22.bmp



later on, sayid overlapped the maps.

notice the top map shows only one islet.
the bottom one shows "les trois ilots" (written by someone french obviously)
http://img301.imageshack.us/my.php?image=theoneineversaw6sr.png

then the last map is overlapped.
http://img333.imageshack.us/my.php?image=mapoverlap7km.png

the above piece belongs to this map..
http://img301.imageshack.us/my.php?image=thankyouabc9ih.jpg


and now if you look at this piece again, you see how the puzzle fits..
notice the island coming in from the top of the image.
http://img301.imageshack.us/my.php?image=map436wk.png

=
http://img301.imageshack.us/my.php?image=forskeptics6ri.jpg

TA DA !

:)


PS. this page (http://www.losttv-forum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=7431&page=15) is where I started to show my trouble with the maps.






I made le crater blue, and the mountain ranges red,
then I moved the camera into postion of the side view map to show how it did not work with the overhead.

http://img344.imageshack.us/my.php?image=76ru.jpg
http://img336.imageshack.us/my.php?image=82cd.jpg

this is how I assumed it must have been...(in order for the side view map to make any sense with one big mountain)
http://img336.imageshack.us/my.php?image=97cu.jpg


all of that was based on this drawing I did on top of abcs map..
http://img336.imageshack.us/my.php?image=thankyouabc22mp.jpg

so imagine my glee when this image popped up on screen.

http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e41/truffula/Season%20Three/Island2.jpg

as truff would say..
SQUEEEEEEEEEEE
:):):);)

Just read an insteresting post elsewhere that pointed this out.
The light from the sun rising is on Sawyers/Ben's right which tells us that they are south of the main island looking north.

http://gallery.lost-media.com/displayimage.php?pid=78158&fullsize=1

All good work. However, several problems:

Given that Sayid, at least, has traversed the southern shore of the island, how did he miss the offshore islands? Or did he dismiss them as unimportant? Or, as some have suggested, did he cut inland to avoid a rocky shoreline and thus miss the south coast altogether? The shoreline looks like it has a beach there, but it's possible it's impassable further west or east.

Why did Danielle only draw the foreground of the island in the map and not the additional features in the background? I'm not saying it's wrong, it just seems odd if she was going to the lengths of accurately drawing the island she'd leave out the additional coastline and mountains in the background.

Where was Danielle standing when she drew the map? On her ship still, or just guessing from memory?

I had the impression that the 'islets' were pretty small (hence the name), whilst Hydra Island is pretty big (not as big as the main island, but half a mile to a mile long is still reasonable).

Finally, the scale in Danielle's side-on drawing of the island is an issue. You can clearly see individual trees in Danielle's drawing, whilst Ben and Sawyer are far too far from the shore to see them. There's also the boat in Danielle's picture, which would be far too huge if indeed it is a rendition from Ben and Sawyer's position. I'd also expect to see additional islands and shoals between their position and the shore if it were to match the B&S image, which are not present. High tide? Or perhaps artistic licence?

It would be nice if this island had previously been noted in Danielle's maps, and with the use of a relatively rapid-moving sub there is no reason why the Hydra Island cannot be south of the island. The only issues are how the blast door map fits in (we must assume, I think, that the directions are accurate but the distances are not, so the shape of the locations will be distorted compared to the map), although it indeed supports a south to south-easterly location for the Hydra.

All good work. However, several problems:

Given that Sayid, at least, has traversed the southern shore of the island, how did he miss the offshore islands? Or did he dismiss them as unimportant? Or, as some have suggested, did he cut inland to avoid a rocky shoreline and thus miss the south coast altogether? The shoreline looks like it has a beach there, but it's possible it's impassable further west or east.

Why did Danielle only draw the foreground of the island in the map and not the additional features in the background? I'm not saying it's wrong, it just seems odd if she was going to the lengths of accurately drawing the island she'd leave out the additional coastline and mountains in the background.

Where was Danielle standing when she drew the map? On her ship still, or just guessing from memory?

I had the impression that the 'islets' were pretty small (hence the name), whilst Hydra Island is pretty big (not as big as the main island, but half a mile to a mile long is still reasonable).

Finally, the scale in Danielle's side-on drawing of the island is an issue. You can clearly see individual trees in Danielle's drawing, whilst Ben and Sawyer are far too far from the shore to see them. There's also the boat in Danielle's picture, which would be far too huge if indeed it is a rendition from Ben and Sawyer's position. I'd also expect to see additional islands and shoals between their position and the shore if it were to match the B&S image, which are not present. High tide? Or perhaps artistic licence?

It would be nice if this island had previously been noted in Danielle's maps, and with the use of a relatively rapid-moving sub there is no reason why the Hydra Island cannot be south of the island. The only issues are how the blast door map fits in (we must assume, I think, that the directions are accurate but the distances are not, so the shape of the locations will be distorted compared to the map), although it indeed supports a south to south-easterly location for the Hydra.

I for one, would place the beach camp on the eastern shore and think Sayid, Jin and Sun left from there, sailed north and came around to the dock on the western shore, which is where it's placed on the map shown in 3x2. So I don't think they ever saw the southern offshore islands. Desmond might have missed them as well during his trip.

You're right, the side view map is a detailed section of the crater area only, with the left and right extensions of the island left out. I guess that was the only area of interest. I'm sure she put a lot of the writing on the map(s), but I'm not 100% sure she drew the islands.

You would'nt think Danielle swam out to that vantage point with pencil and paper would you? A walk during low tide? maybe, but judging from the tides on the beach camp, it does'nt seem it changes the water level that much.

I've taken a close look at the boat drawn on her map. I don't see a mast, so I won't confuse it with Desmonds boat. It's a motorboat and it's under the crater, not near the western rocks where she noted her team's shipwreck.

No, I meant in Season 1 when Sayid said he was walking the coast of the island and headed off with the sea on his right hand side which, assuming the shape of the island is correct, means he was headed either south or east depending on where the beach camp is (the south-western beach location shown on numerous fan maps seems well supported, but certainly isn't definitive).

Gregg Nations' reply to a question on where the Hydra Island might be:

I would guess that the Losties hadn't made it around to see the other island. That seems very logical to me. And isn't Rousseau interesting? Where is she...?Okay, not definitive, but it does seem to tilt things slightly further in favour of the Hydra not being one of those islets in her drawing and the previous accounts of how people have walked the coast means that in that case the northern side of the island is the most likely location for the Hydra. However, this doesn't explain the direction of the sun and, as The Other 48 Days indicated, the producers do try to maintain continuity on this point.

The light from the sun rising is on Sawyers/Ben's right which tells us that they are south of the main island looking north.

Except that in the close-ups you can very clearly see the Sun rising directly behind where Sawyer and Ben are standing. Which puts them east of the island looking at west towards the island. I think this may be deliberate since the shot of the sunlight streaming through the clouds behind them looks a bit fake, like they added it in later.

No, I meant in Season 1 when Sayid said he was walking the coast of the island and headed off with the sea on his right hand side which, assuming the shape of the island is correct, means he was headed either south or east depending on where the beach camp is (the south-western beach location shown on numerous fan maps seems well supported, but certainly isn't definitive).

This is how I orient the crashsites, though I've gotten plenty of disagreements; Tail section off the SE shore and Fuselage somewhere on the eastern beach:
http://img182.imageshack.us/img182/9351/craterev6.jpg

In the photo we're looking out over the crater in a ENE direction. We're inline with the opening in the crater ridge, which matches the map, and looking out over descending land, a bay, then a small penninsula with open sea to the right of it. That's the tail crashsite there. The nose breaks off and sails to our left landing somewhere inland, while the fuselage continues past that to land somewhere on the eastern shore.

So, if the fuselage is indeed on the eastern shore, then Sayid walked north along it with the sea to his right till he came to the cable and turned west inland.

imo, the fan maps from blackrock were overambitious in placing things. Shoot, they even had the golf course set inside the crater.

Billy: It's always good doing a little Crime Scene Investigation! I've got to say, having spent some time in Hawaii and looking at that image of Otherville and where the two sections crashed, I don't think anyone has accurately placed where the Others are yet.

A clue is that if Sayid's crew on Desmond's boat had made a trip around the Island they would have found the Other's. I believe it was meant that they would find out where the Hydra was, not Othersville.

Another observation of mine is that there may be more than one volcanic shell. Maybe one on multiple Islands. My guess that between "Sawyer on the Hill" and what he saw as "The Island" is a distance of about three miles.

Now I'm going to throw out a whopper. What if Sawyer was looking at another Island in the opposite direction from Lostie Island? These Island are invisible to the World don't forget? Just seems a little soon to be giving away good information.

If we had an idea from the map that the Others were using to flatten that area of land with labor, where they were doing that, that might be helpful.

I don't think the map provided by jonahadkins has it right yet.

This is how I orient the crashsites, though I've gotten plenty of disagreements; Tail section off the SE shore and Fuselage somewhere on the eastern beach:
http://img182.imageshack.us/img182/9351/craterev6.jpg

In the photo we're looking out over the crater in a ENE direction. We're inline with the opening in the crater ridge, which matches the map, and looking out over descending land, a bay, then a small penninsula with open sea to the right of it. That's the tail crashsite there. The nose breaks off and sails to our left landing somewhere inland, while the fuselage continues past that to land somewhere on the eastern shore.

So, if the fuselage is indeed on the eastern shore, then Sayid walked north along it with the sea to his right till he came to the cable and turned west inland.

imo, the fan maps from blackrock were overambitious in placing things. Shoot, they even had the golf course set inside the crater.

Ah, I see. The 'crater theory' I think was covered in earlier discussions, most notably because the tailies were in the Others' 'main territory', which we know was north of the fuselage crash site from The Hunting Party. The Lockdown map also confirms that the Arrow is located in the north of the island, with the Others active nearby. It could be a bluff (the Others carry out operations in the north of the island, but Othersville is in the crater and the Hydra Island is off to the south), or it could be a plot point (the 'other Others' operate in the north), but it all seems needlessly complicated. Putting Otherville on a small plateau in the mountains in the north looking south-west at the north-western bay where the tail section crashes seems to make things work and fit all the directions nicely. Hopefully we'll get some more info to make things work out better this season.

where billy has placed the fuselage I had done in season 1 as I first made my maps.

I was SURE it was the right spot.

but I got my butt kicked with all the "the sun being on the wrong side of the ocean" talk.

billy, go see my 3d thread to see all the arguments against camp being on the eastern beach..


(these days I agree camp must be on the west beach.)

I've read those posts too, but do you really think the filming crew would go to the trouble and expense of arranging their (tight) schedules and locations just to get a certain sun angle to fit the story? Nah, Screw 'the sun being on the wrong side of the ocean' arguements. It's overkill. We know they're filming on the north shore of Oahu and obviously sunsets are seen off to the 'left 'and the sun rises from the 'right'. But when they talk about going 'north' from the camp, well, what do you do with that? I think sunsets, pretty streams in jungle etc..occur wherever they want them to fit the mood of the story and are convenient to fit in.

I don't credit the characters with knowing their N-S orientation and take their comments about direction with a grain of salt. Till Desmond figures out how he sailed west and ended up back at the island, I'll assume they're all clueless.

I'll retract my previous comments concerning N-S orientation, but still hold that the panoramic view from 3x1 matches the map, and that Othersville is within the crater. We may be be looking NSE or W in this shot, I'm not sure on that.

Why do I think we're seeing 'le crater' and not one of the mountain formations elsewhere on the island?
1- The photo and map both show roughly oval shaped mountain ridges with an eroded gap on one side. The gap on both is in the same line with the view of the descending land, bay and distant peninsula.
2- The 3x1 shot shows sharp peaks on the ridges in the foreground and to the right, but wider, more blunted peaks to the left. This fits with the maps too. The crater ridge to the 'north' is drawn wider than those on the 'west' and 'south'.
3- The photo shows the 'crater' at a fairly high elevation, consistent with a volcanic cone. I would'nt expect any of the 'ribs' of the mountain chains to terminate at a high elevation while pointing towards the sea.

I have about 80% confidence in Danielle's maps. Yes concerning the geography, no concerning N-S orientation. Think of this; Sayid was seen marking a specific spot on the 'western' shore in 3x2 while anchored off the Pala dock. They had sailed from the beach to this spot for some time, don't you think? By marking this spot, he was showing us that, at least the contours of the island, were correct with what he was seeing from the boat.

I will build a smoke lodge in my backyard and be back with further information:)

I've read those posts too, but do you really think the filming crew would go to the trouble and expense of arranging their (tight) schedules and locations just to get a certain sun angle to fit the story? Nah, Screw 'the sun being on the wrong side of the ocean' arguements. It's overkill.

I disagree.....but hey, it's not my map.

I think for the general travelling around they may not care about the direction of the sun, but for locations we'll be seeing a lot, they probably have taken it into account.

However, in this week's episode the background behind Sawyer and Ben was clearly CGI, so they did that deliberately, meaning it was was important (meaning that it's likely intended to suggest that Sawyer and Ben are standing to the east of the Lost island).

Gregg Nations confirmed that the producers are working from a map of the island, so we're not shooting in the dark here. The question is how close to the real map we get. And we may not see that for some time.

However, in this week's episode the background behind Sawyer and Ben was clearly CGI, so they did that deliberately, meaning it was was important (meaning that it's likely intended to suggest that Sawyer and Ben are standing to the east of the Lost island).

Exactly. The light effect looked like CGI (or enhanced somehow with lighting equipment) to me also. This is a clue regarding where they were located in relation to the big island.

I think for the general travelling around they may not care about the direction of the sun, but for locations we'll be seeing a lot, they probably have taken it into account.

However, in this week's episode the background behind Sawyer and Ben was clearly CGI, so they did that deliberately, meaning it was was important (meaning that it's likely intended to suggest that Sawyer and Ben are standing to the east of the Lost island).

Gregg Nations confirmed that the producers are working from a map of the island, so we're not shooting in the dark here. The question is how close to the real map we get. And we may not see that for some time.

Werthead, I'm just providing the link for your Gregg Nations questions for easy reference in the future and to be thorough :) :

http://www.thefuselage.com/Threaded/showthread.php?t=62564

Werthead: you gave Gregg a way out! You said... do they make it up as they go along... ? Gregg said yes to the whole question! For clarification, I'd ask the simple question next time. Is there a complete Island map and does production follow it? Maybe add some "interesting" questions about other Islands, craters, etc... good luck.

Gregg's answer to the map question:
Oh, yes. They certainly do.

Sounds pretty unvague to me! :biggrin:

Old LOST Poster (http://www.moviegoods.com/movie_product.asp?sku=274491&master%5Fmovie%5Fid=27609)

From the very 1st season I always thought that it looked like several islands in the T in LOST.

Here's some comments from Gregg Nations about trying to map out locations:

Good luck trying to figure out where the Hydra and Othersville are located -- you're not supposed to know at this time. It hasn't been established yet. The maps are interesting, but both are created by people whom at this point you don't know if you can trust or not. There's no way to know if they're accurate.

I think running with the premise that the Pearl is the "?" is a pretty good way to go.

http://www.thefuselage.com/Threaded/showthread.php?p=1269022#post1269022

An interesting revelation from the producers in an interview. There are several ways of interpreting it, but I think it's confirmation that Othersville isn't on the Hydra Island (which we'd kind of concluded anyway, but still, nice to have official confirmation).

That's really the sort of uber-plot of Season 3. "What's the nature of this island? Where is this island?" The overarching mysteries of Lost remain unanswered. But those questions have to remain unanswered until the show ends. That island isn't necessarily where the Others live. It's not necessarily the same place where we saw those guys in the beginning of the teaser of the season premiere this year. I think that would be a very reasonable explanation as to how Goodwin and Ethan could run from the Others' home camp to the crash site in about one hour

Either way, it's looks like John Locke's hunting party is going North to find some answers.

An interesting revelation from the producers in an interview. There are several ways of interpreting it, but I think it's confirmation that Othersville isn't on the Hydra Island (which we'd kind of concluded anyway, but still, nice to have official confirmation).

That's really the sort of uber-plot of Season 3. "What's the nature of this island? Where is this island?" The overarching mysteries of Lost remain unanswered. But those questions have to remain unanswered until the show ends. That island isn't necessarily where the Others live. It's not necessarily the same place where we saw those guys in the beginning of the teaser of the season premiere this year. I think that would be a very reasonable explanation as to how Goodwin and Ethan could run from the Others' home camp to the crash site in about one hour

Hey Wertherd , what interview is that? Can you provide a link to the full interview?

I read that same information about in the above spoiler here:


http://www.tvguide.com/News-Views/Columnists/Ask-Ausiello/default.aspx

I think the whole article is here. There's some pretty good info.

Wow. Thanks for the link. Very interesting. They certainly make me want to watch in February.

It has been suggested elsewhere that that the "3.05" that was supposedly a verse from John (on the Jesus stick) is actually a compass heading to guide Locke. I guess it is thought this for 2 reasons: 1) usually Bible verses don't have a 0 in them, and 2) the verse notation doesn't actually match the same passage Eko wrote. Could someone possibly suggest where compass heading 305 would be? Thanks.

305 degrees would be North West....On my map from the Pearl Area - True North would be close to where i have "Otherville" and magnetic north would be the northern most point of the island - meaning you could see where i have "Alcatraz" - but not many people agree with the locations i put both of those...

Well, I am not an expert mapper, but that's an explanation that satisfies me. Thanks Jonah!

Possibly some useful information. In the podcasts the producers confirm that, according to the Others, the island is the same size as Alcatraz (less than a half-mile in length) but it is definitely two miles off-shore.

It would be good if we had more data to do a scale for the map. My rough calculations suggest that the island should be at least 30 miles in length from north to south, potentially larger, based on travelling times from various locations.

Possibly some useful information. In the podcasts the producers confirm that, according to the Others, the island is the same size as Alcatraz (less than a half-mile in length) but it is definitely two miles off-shore.

It would be good if we had more data to do a scale for the map. My rough calculations suggest that the island should be at least 30 miles in length from north to south, potentially larger, based on travelling times from various locations.Didn't Carlton and Damon suggest that the island is much larger that anyone suspects?

Didn't Carlton and Damon suggest that the island is much larger that anyone suspects?

Yeah... Damon read a question that began with "Do you think we're stupid?" The questioner was wondering how the Hydra could not have been seen yet. And they said the Island was very large indeed. I don't have the exact wording but they made it sound like no one had been to the part of the Island yet that would let them see it nor had anyone actually sailed all around it either. I do remember vividly they gave this example: Imagine you're looking for Alcatraz, the actual one, at any point off the Pacific coast. I didn't think that example was a good one because while the Island is large I doubt the Island is the size of a continent. :biggrin: I think we're supposed to just accept their logic that the Island is large enough that people haven't gotten around or even sailed to the side where they could see the Hydra yet. I suspect going "North" is when Locke and Co. will finally see it.

And just to touch on an old point I saw scanning this thread: I don't think the Blast Door Map is a map really, but a tool by Kelvin and Radzinski for organizing ideas in relation to each other, but not necessarily incorporating real distances or even real North or South. I like what Jonah has done here by not treating the Blast Door as such.

Also, I think Danielle drew her sideview map from the Hydra since it matches the view Ben showed Sawyer.

Crimson,
I agree about the BlastDoor Map.

My interpretation of that map is that it is like the London Underground map (and possibly other underground / metro / subway maps). The positions are more or less correct in terms of direction, but distance and exact direction is irrelevant - the important thing is clarity. If you superimposed a London Underground map over a street map nothing would be in place. However, if you take any station on the Underground map and then choose another, the direction from one to the other will be loosely the same on both the Underground map and the street map. Although its purpose is clarity it's not entirely misleading.
Well, I have always imagined the BlastDoor map to be the same thing.

And yeah, that view from the Hydra was far too similar to Danielle's map for that not to have been a clue from TPTB that Danielle HAS been on the Hydra and therefore probably HAS had contact with the Others.

I spotted that myself, but I'm not sure if I've included it on my Deception thread - I'll have to have a look.

Lucidity, I like your description of using the London Undergound map. I believe TPTB have said.. that we are looking at two different islands. When it was asked on the Podcast why no one who has sailed around the main Island saw "Alcatraz", it was explained that the main Island was large and on one had more than likely did the 360. IF you can do a 360! Also, if not "Alcatraz" where did Pearl Station watchers go after their watch over? Pala Ferry to where?

Sawyer and Kate know they are on a separate Island from the Main Island, Jack does not. And Danielle may just show up again in a different guise! Does she "dress-up" for the Losties?

And Danielle may just show up again in a different guise! Does she "dress-up" for the Losties?


I would love to see Sayid's reaction to that! Is danielle Jacob? :biggrin:

This may be only marginally relevant here, but I thought it was interesting enough to add to the mix.
A friend of mine who works for abc (but unfortunately has no Lost scoop whatsoever) sent me a t-shirt that has the full blast door map printed on the back. It's a black shirt and the map is printed in gray, so I couldn't get a good picture, but I added in the text notations that didn't appear in the episode, and there are a few interesting notations. I typed everything exactly as it appears, and in the proper location. I'll spoiler font it, as there are parts (the upper left quadrant of the map and some things on the right and top that were cut off in Lockdown.
Here's my version (http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h53/lucky4me8/blastdoormap.jpg), which is just adding the new notations to a copy of the map. what I thought might be relevant here was the "security barrier" in the north part of the map. To me this implies that there were "lines" which even DHARMA personel couldn't cross ("no stations past security barrier"). There are, of course, other intriguing notations, such as the "selective breeding" note, and the part about Carcharodon (Great White Shark - think Jaws) but they're probably not germane to this thread.

It's interesting for a lot of reasons --the main one (to me) is thta Dharma may not have had free run of the island.

That's a great scoop lucky4me8, the lost puzzle people may be interested as well since the back of the puzzle is supposed to show the whole map. I'm going to post about it over there!

That's a great scoop lucky4me8, the lost puzzle people may be interested as well since the back of the puzzle is supposed to show the whole map. I'm going to post about it over there!

Oh, I didn't know there was a puzzle thread! If you're still here, penyours, would you mind directing me to it? I did the three puzzles that have been released (having this shirt a few months ago would have saved me a heck of a lot of trouble!) and have been waiting for the fourth to complete the upper left quarter of the map. There are still the weird codes on the perimeter of the puzzles to figure out (not on my t-shirt), and I'm hoping the last puzzle will include hints about how to figure those out, so of course I'll run out and get it as soon as it's released.
Sorry to veer so far off topic.

Oh, I didn't know there was a puzzle thread! If you're still here, penyours, would you mind directing me to it? I did the three puzzles that have been released (having this shirt a few months ago would have saved me a heck of a lot of trouble!) and have been waiting for the fourth to complete the upper left quarter of the map. There are still the weird codes on the perimeter of the puzzles to figure out (not on my t-shirt), and I'm hoping the last puzzle will include hints about how to figure those out, so of course I'll run out and get it as soon as it's released.
Sorry to veer so far off topic.
Here it is :smile::
http://www.thefuselage.com/Threaded/showthread.php?t=46226&highlight=Puzzles

beat me to it Jezz! :)

This may be only marginally relevant here, but I thought it was interesting enough to add to the mix.
A friend of mine who works for abc (but unfortunately has no Lost scoop whatsoever) sent me a t-shirt that has the full blast door map printed on the back. It's a black shirt and the map is printed in gray, so I couldn't get a good picture, but I added in the text notations that didn't appear in the episode, and there are a few interesting notations. I typed everything exactly as it appears, and in the proper location. I'll spoiler font it, as there are parts (the upper left quadrant of the map and some things on the right and top that were cut off in Lockdown.
Here's my version (http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h53/lucky4me8/blastdoormap.jpg), which is just adding the new notations to a copy of the map. what I thought might be relevant here was the "security barrier" in the north part of the map. To me this implies that there were "lines" which even DHARMA personel couldn't cross ("no stations past security barrier"). There are, of course, other intriguing notations, such as the "selective breeding" note, and the part about Carcharodon (Great White Shark - think Jaws) but they're probably not germane to this thread.

It's interesting for a lot of reasons --the main one (to me) is thta Dharma may not have had free run of the island.

lucky4me8: Thank-you so much.... xoxoxoxoxoxo I love you....

lucky4me8: Thank-you so muchIndeed! I *love* the blast door map and to have the "chopped off" sections visible is just awesome. I'd do about 20 bow down icons but I don't know the code. :)

Here it is :smile::
http://www.thefuselage.com/Threaded/showthread.php?t=46226&highlight=Puzzles

beat me to it Jezz! :)

lucky4me8: Thank-you so much.... xoxoxoxoxoxo I love you....

You're so welcome. LOL, I thought I might get bashed for being too OT. Thanks for the link - I can't believe I spent days on those three puzzles, jotting down all those "C" codes in the dark and dying to talk to someone about it and that thread was there all along!

I can't believe I spent days on those three puzzles, jotting down all those "C" codes in the dark and dying to talk to someone about it and that thread was there all along!

Glad I was able to point you to the right place. BTW why did ABC make those T-shirts are they just for fun to hand around the production staff? (I remember Damon had a Hydra hat as well) Could there possibly be a t-shirt of the geographical map of the island?

Didn't Carlton and Damon suggest that the island is much larger that anyone suspects?

Plenty of room for a 10000ft runway.

Could there possibly be a t-shirt of the geographical map of the island?[places credit card next to computer in anticipation] Oh man, I'd *love* one of those.

Glad I was able to point you to the right place. BTW why did ABC make those T-shirts are they just for fun to hand around the production staff? (I remember Damon had a Hydra hat as well) Could there possibly be a t-shirt of the geographical map of the island?

I'll ask my friend - he's not directly connected to Lost, so I think they must be available to more than just the cast and crew, unless he just got an extra one. I'll find out. And can you imagine a t-shirt of Danielle's Solitary map? *(faints)*

Plenty of room for a 10000ft runway.

More than enough, and 10k feet will handle large aircraft for take-off, when fully loaded with cargo, passengers, and fuel - conditions not likely needed on craphole island..

Partially-loaded, fuel-depleted planes can land on a much smaller runaway. 5000 ft. is sufficient with an experienced pilot and favorable environmental conditions.
We haven't seen a runway yet (maybe) but we didn't see Otherville and Alcatraz until this season.

There are heavily used commercial airports in mountainous areas throughout central america and the caribbean (http://www.aircraft-charter-world.com/airports/centralamerica/index.htm) with runways in the 7000 ft range; I've taken off and landed on them, as a commercial passenger.

I will post this here snce I believe it's the right thread for it.

I've made my own map in Paint. It's really poor quality, but I think it's OK.

http://img354.imageshack.us/my.php?image=lostmapka3.jpg

I've put Hydra Island on another place and made the crater as a part of The golf course and a part of The Cove.

Exactly where is Jughead located? The location of the Army camp is very familiar, could it be where the Losties first played golf (http://gallery.lost-media.com/displayimage.php?pid=16730&fullsize=1)? Or Heard the French transmission?

http://getlostpodcast.iimmgg.com/image/c3dbbc9d0815d89895a1c4ed67ccd2c7
http://getlostpodcast.iimmgg.com/image/26159fbd150bd9768be60bd082eb50ee

They were chased off the beach and they were supposed to meet at the creek. They weren't anywhere near the Orchid.

http://gohawaii.about.com/od/oahuactivities/ss/lost_locations_3.htm
http://gohawaii.about.com/od/oahuactivities/ss/lost_locations_10.htm

http://www.vakaruge.com/temp/LOST/Lost-Island.jpg

Anyone have a good idea where Jughead is located on the Island?

Anyone have a good idea where Jughead is located on the Island?

The camp site looked like a clearing well-protected by mountain ridges. It made me wonder if it was the same clearing that would become New Otherton. Presumably Jughead was close by.

When the Leftbehinds were chased off the beach they were supposed to meet at the creek, not too far away.

We've seen the Jughead location many times before, golf course and lots of the hikes. I don't know if we are supposed to recognize it as such. This is where the Army decided to make camp, the Others took it over after they killed all the soldiers.

The camp site looked like a clearing well-protected by mountain ridges. It made me wonder if it was the same clearing that would become New Otherton. Presumably Jughead was close by.

Except that when they jumped, the clearing was still empty. Is it likely that they were still in a pre-Dharma time period?

Especially when the promo shows scenes that seem to indicate interaction with the Losties post-crash?