I don't know, but for some reason when Ben told Jack that he would take him home, I believed him. Maybe I'm just gullable??:lipsseal:

I think that Ben needs Jack to solve the Island's code/mystery. By doing this, the place will be secure, thus allowing all to go home. I think the Others are kept there until they solve the mystery and Jack may be the one to do it.

I don't believe anything Ben says anymore. I didn't believe he was Henry Gale, but I did believe that he hadn't pushed the button and that he might have been coming for Locke. He has no credibility left, so no, even if he can take Jack home, I don't think he would. Jack would also be more likely to tell someone about the island than Michael would. (And I'm not convinced he's homebound either.)

I don't know, but for some reason when Ben told Jack that he would take him home, I believed him. Maybe I'm just gullable??:lipsseal:

How can you trust someone whose name sounds like "Been Lying"?
Scuzzle

There's a couple good reasons why we should believe him:

1- He didn't lie to Michael
2- He told Jack some true facts such as the date and that the Red Sox won the world series and that Christopher Reeve died.

There's a couple good reasons why we should believe him:

1- He didn't lie to Michael
2- He told Jack some true facts such as the date and that the Red Sox won the world series and that Christopher Reeve died.


1. We don't know that for sure. There is no proof at this point that Walt and Michael made it off the island to safety.

2. So what? He told Jack useless facts in order to get Jack to believe him about other things. What he did tell him is utterly meaningless.

I don't believe anything Ben says anymore. I didn't believe he was Henry Gale, but I did believe that he hadn't pushed the button and that he might have been coming for Locke. He has no credibility left, so no, even if he can take Jack home, I don't think he would. Jack would also be more likely to tell someone about the island than Michael would. (And I'm not convinced he's homebound either.)


I agree. After all that's happened, everything that Ben says these days just sounds like another lie. Especially his little "hunch down and offer my hand in friendship trick". Jack should just laugh in his face.

Also, if the current leader of the Others is a pathological liar then this goes a long way in nullifying any "We are the good guys" claims they might possibly have.

There's a couple good reasons why we should believe him:

1- He didn't lie to Michael
2- He told Jack some true facts such as the date and that the Red Sox won the world series and that Christopher Reeve died.

Ben was already planning to use Jack for something at that point (when he "released" Michael and Walt), so it would be in his best interest to make it APPEAR to Jack (who was witnessing the whole thing) that he was able to return them to safety...even if they were just going to go in circles around the island forever.... Whether they escape or not, Jack thinks they did, so that gives him the impression that Ben is telling the truth (and has the ability to take Jack "home" as well).

Could have all been part of the manipulation.

spapeggyandmeatballs

I hate the others. They hung Charlie, abducted numerous Tailies, snapped Nathan's neck, took Danielle's baby, killed the Scott/Steve guy, were about to kill Michael and this last episode tried to kill a pregnant Sun. I hope by the time this series ends, Jack, Sawyer & co. have killed every last one of them.

At this point I wouldnt take Benry at his word with anything. If he had flames coming out of his head and said he was on fire id be inclined to not believe him :) Hopefully Jack wont be so gullible as to be swayed to believe Benry by a tape of the Red Sox winning.

What if Michael & Walt appear at the very end of this season and say that they were stranded on a surrounding island. This happens after the losties finally put their full trust in the Others.
Season 3 will be the losties gaining trust and the finalie ends w/ Micheal & Walt finding their way back. Think of the off season questions!!

At this point I wouldnt take Benry at his word with anything. If he had flames coming out of his head and said he was on fire id be inclined to not believe him :) Hopefully Jack wont be so gullible as to be swayed to believe Benry by a tape of the Red Sox winning.

lol...It sounds like you're suspicious of this man:) I agree though.

When he was portraying Henry Gale every word was a lie.

I think the opposite to be true when he's Ben, I believe everything he's said since the start of season three.

It's the little things he leaves out...

BEN: Okay. Have her open the door and she dies anyway. We all do.

He doesn't mention they're underwater, he tells Jack what he wants to tell Jack, but he's not lying.

When he was portraying Henry Gale every word was a lie.

I think the opposite to be true when he's Ben, I believe everything he's said since the start of season three.

It's the little things he leaves out...



He doesn't mention they're underwater, he tells Jack what he wants to tell Jack, but he's not lying.

You have a valid point. He did say that he was done lying. But is the lie of omission still a lie?

When he was portraying Henry Gale every word was a lie.

I think the opposite to be true when he's Ben, I believe everything he's said since the start of season three.

It's the little things he leaves out...

He doesn't mention they're underwater, he tells Jack what he wants to tell Jack, but he's not lying.

Yeah and who can blame him for lying when he was being held captive. He's so smart he doesn't have to lie.

I hope by the time this series ends, Jack, Sawyer & co. have killed every last one of them.

Don't hold your breath. If that does happen, it's going to be a LONG time coming, after most viewers have tuned out.

You have a valid point. He did say that he was done lying. But is the lie of omission still a lie?

I figure Jack would have opened it no matter what Ben said, he could have told him they were underwater but Jack probably wouldn't have believed him.

It seems like everything Ben says is measured, like when he was talking to Jack he was about to say that Jack needed to change his attitude, only he didn't use the word attitude he used perspective instead, he's studied Jack and he knows what buttons to push, and what ones to avoid.

That's also why I think he stopped Locke mid-sentance when he was a prisoner in The Swan and said "God can't see us" or something to that effect, he was pushing Locke's buttons.

By not telling Jack the whole truth he's testing Jack's, and he always has something that Jack wantsm which I guess ultimately is the truth.

That scene where Jack asked where Sawyer and Kate were, Ben said "that's all I can tell you" and Jack callled him, Jack said "You could tell me everything", and he's right.

Ben tells Jack only what he needs to know, only what's relevant to getting Jack to co-operate.

If that means playing him a Red-Sox game, that's what Ben will do.

Quite why he's doing it I have no idea.

:confused:

I agree. After all that's happened, everything that Ben says these days just sounds like another lie. Especially his little "hunch down and offer my hand in friendship trick". Jack should just laugh in his face.

Also, if the current leader of the Others is a pathological liar then this goes a long way in nullifying any "We are the good guys" claims they might possibly have.


You just made me realize that his squatting in front of Jack is just what Sayid did, before he beat the daylights out of him.

I wouldn't believe the man, even if it was the truth. Truth can be used to tells lies if one knows how to use it.

When he was portraying Henry Gale every word was a lie. I think the opposite to be true when he's Ben, I believe everything he's said since the start of season three. It's the little things he leaves out...

I agree with that completely. He also justified the lying when he was in The Swan because he knew Sayid would go nuts on him. Why he was going there and whether he got captured on purpose is still to be determined, I think.

That's also why I think he stopped Locke mid-sentance when he was a prisoner in The Swan and said "God can't see us" or something to that effect, he was pushing Locke's buttons

Oh, he pushed John's buttons alright --John was a freaking Button Pushing Machine in his hands-- but as we've seen, that was the thruth--the Island is invisible to the outside world, unless the sky turns violet. :)

Frankly, I'll take The Others over a collection of con men, daddy murderers, heroin addicts, drug runners, hired goons, bad dads, killers-by-stepping-on-a-deck, loser with anger management issue types any day. :)

The best lies have an element of truth to them. I think Benry will mix fact and fiction as fits his needs. I think he is stuck on the island because of 2 things: 1) the island has mysterious 'properties' that make it difficult to leave, and 2) there is some truth to Danielle's story about the 'sickness' and there is an actual blockade of some nature preventing anyone sick from leaving. Benry thinks Jack may be able to help with that, is my guess.

Oldwiz

The best lies have an element of truth to them. I think Benry will mix fact and fiction as fits his needs. I think he is stuck on the island because of 2 things: 1) the island has mysterious 'properties' that make it difficult to leave, and 2) there is some truth to Danielle's story about the 'sickness' and there is an actual blockade of some nature preventing anyone sick from leaving. Benry thinks Jack may be able to help with that, is my guess.

Oldwiz

Very wise. I think you may be right on both counts.

Being the idiot that I am, I have been trying to figure out what Ben could want from Jack that would make him bargain escape for it ... and it never dawned on me that it might have something to do with the sickness actually being real. I had written it off when Kelvin stripped his protective suit off right outside the hatch door.

I think that Ben needs Jack to solve the Island's code/mystery. By doing this, the place will be secure, thus allowing all to go home. I think the Others are kept there until they solve the mystery and Jack may be the one to do it.
Weird. I also got a Matrix/The One vibe from Henry during that conversation. That it's all going to be up to Jack, or up to Benry to convince Jack so that Ben himself can "go home." Not a small thing to work for if you've been there very long!

I also believe that Ben himself is being highly monitored and directed-? ;)

We have seen that the Others do not place much value on the life of someone who is not a quote unquote good person. So unless they have something to gain from it why would we expect them to place any value on telling the truth to someone who is not a quote unquote good person?

I really dont think ben is lying anymore...he lies last time were due to the fact he was the prisoner and was being interogated, this time he has all the power and is running the show, i feel he will only give out small bursts of information when he feels necessary

I don't know, but for some reason when Ben told Jack that he would take him home, I believed him. Maybe I'm just gullable??:lipsseal:

Nah, I believe that he's telling the truth. He's not in a position where he has to lie now. He's holding all of the cards. He didn't have to give Jack his name, he could have told him nothing or to keep calling him "Henry".

It was proven earlier by The Others that if they want jack to do something all they have to do is threaten to kill Kate. That's far more efficient than trying to convince Jack that they have connections to the outside world and lying about where he was born. If they Needed Jack to do something then they could just torture Kate or whatever until he agrees. Ben holds all the cards, so I believe him.

I have to agree with everyone that thinks Ben is no longer lying. But like others have posted, it's not what he's saying, but what he's not saying. In other words, lying by omission is the same as lying in my book.

The truth is a tricky thing. It all comes down to a matter of perspective and meaning. When Ben says he'll send Jack home, does he mean home to the states, or home to the Lostie camp?

From day one, everything the Others have done has been some sort of game; pull their strings, push their buttons, mess with their minds. Ben is going to make Jack jump through some hoops to get any kind of information. And then, it will only be what Ben wants him to know.

I think it would bring about ill fate to believe a word that Ben says. However, I do wish Ben would say more. If you can keep someone talking for a really long time, the truth sometimes comes out in pieces.