Well, after this episode I am entirely convinced that the walking talking hallucinations we have seen on the island are all manifestations of smokey. This would definitely include Yemi, Christian and Dave, and probably Ana Lucia (in ?) and Kate's horse. I'm not sure about Boone and Shannon, since both appeared following the usage of Locke's wacky paste. Even if we actually witnessed Yemi transform into smokey, I wouldn't be more convinced than I am right now.

The question is, who makes it transform? Is it a psychic phenomenon that the Losties bring on or is there someone running the smokey switch?

You beat me to it. I guess the mods will probably merge my thread with yours.

Yes, I agree that most of the hallucinations are probably Smokey. This was a theory tossed around for awhile.

But why did Locke see a bright light instead of Smoke?

Locke is a good man and Eko was not.

Smokey appears to be the manifestation of one's personal demon, as Eko was surely battling his in this episode.

I actually think it's possible that the smoke has reanimated Yemi's and Christian's corpses. Both bodies are missing.

Yes, I am really wondering what the smoke monster is. Like peepstone said, can it reanimate dead bodies? Was Yemi's body never really there in the first place? Could the smoke monster take dead corpses?

I really wanted Jack's dad, Christian to be alive on the island... I'd like to know more about this smokey monster.

Do you think the Others have any control over it? I don't.

hmm... i never thought of that...i like that idea.

Well, I wouldn't be surprised if SOMEONE is controlling smokey. Over in the whispers thread, we have found hidden audio (voices) in the randomest placest, like in the growls of the polar bear that attacked Walt. Someone on the island has SOMETHING to do with these phenomena, I just don't know who it is or how it works.

I'm close though, right? :biggrin:

Laura, great minds think alike. ;)

So it's some shape shifting smoke that is possible controlled by the guy with the patch (Radzinsky?)?
It appeared just after they saw him.

Yes, I definitely think that's what's going on. But I don't think smokie is reanimating the bodies of Christian and Yemi. Smokie seems to appear and disappear too quickly for there to be an actual physical body.

I don't think anyone controls it.. it controls itself. It had a VERY specific idea of what it wanted from Eko: it wanted him to ask for forgiveness. Except... Eko didn't agree with Smokey's point of view.

So the monster has a very specific moral code that demanded Eko beg forgiveness for killing, any killing.

Eko on the other hand thought killing can be justified.

Good thread.

Now, it would be important to go back and relisten to the dialogues Christian, Dave and company says...I remember Dave telling Hurley it wasnt "real" or something like that...My point is is that I'll have to check if these apparitions are trying to find something out of the Lostees....What an excellent eppy.

Cant wait for next week. The hiatus will be a killer....omg....It made a fist around Eko....

Namaste, Eric.

So, if Eyepatch Guy/Radzinsky doesn't control it. Then it seems to have a region it inhabits at the very least. The tail section folks never saw it at all.

So it's some shape shifting smoke that is possible controlled by the guy with the patch (Radzinsky?)?
It appeared just after they saw him.

Actually, Smokey appeared before that guy appeared. Smokey appeared before Locke and co. actually ran into Eko in the jungle.
And it's not Radzinksi. Gregg Nations already confirmed that Radzinski is in fact dead.

I don't think anyone controls it.. it controls itself. It had a VERY specific idea of what it wanted from Eko: it wanted him to ask for forgiveness. Except... Eko didn't agree with Smokey's point of view.

So the monster has a very specific moral code that demanded Eko beg forgiveness for killing, any killing.

Eko on the other hand thought killing can be justified.

Yeah but this is weird and bothers me. Why does Smokey get to decide? If this show is NOT PURGATORY than why are they being judged like this? It's really some supernatural force? Or is someone controlling it?
It could be the patchman with his computer controllers....
I'd prefer for it to be the arbitrary choices of a psycho with an eyepatch than a cloud of Smokey deciding fates.

I don't know if smokey is actually deciding who is good and who is bad, although I probably already said just that in a post or two.

Maybe it is seeing if it can "break" the Losties. Hurley and Jack seemed a lot closer to giving over to smokey's wishes than Eko did. Hurley almost jumped, for goodness sakes!

So you think smokey is actually trying to kill some Lostees?

What would have happened had he asked for forgiveness??? And in what way can a response affect smoke??? (If it isnt controlled by humans or has its own free will do do as it pleases)

This just got very good.

Well, after this episode I am entirely convinced that the walking talking hallucinations we have seen on the island are all manifestations of smokey. This would definitely include Yemi, Christian and Dave, and probably Ana Lucia (in ?) and Kate's horse. I'm not sure about Boone and Shannon, since both appeared following the usage of Locke's wacky paste. Even if we actually witnessed Yemi transform into smokey, I wouldn't be more convinced than I am right now.

I agree. It seem like the black smoke monster seem like it can apparently shapeshift into human form. But than again, maybe it's not shapeshifting, but actually , using the body of the dead? I notice that both Jack's father's body, and Eko's brother's body were missing, which seem to indicate that the monster might have taken control of their dead body. When Eko encounter what he thought, was his brother Yemi, Yemi said to Eko, "you talk to me as if I was your brother.".. so, the smoke monster did not try to deceive Eko. I also notice that Locke and Eko saw different things. why?

I liked this reveal, especially the way he/it came out and said it.

If they're each their own demons...then Jack and Kate have resolved theirs, as has (maybe) Sawyer? He did just say "it's just a boar," but that wasn't the same as the end of Jack's or Kate's hallucinations. Or Hurley's for that matter.

Is THIS why the four were on the list? And was Walt really there, then, or was he the island, too?

i was 100% waiting for Yemi to wisk away molecule by molecule and turn into black smoke...

How twisted, Smokey reanimating corpses. Yet I love it. My hunch is that it's artificial intelligence run amok, and it has a mind and will of it's own. But of course, there could be a wizard behind a curtain somewhere. Very intriguing....

I definitely think this is what's going on know. When "Yemi" said "You talk to me like I am your brother," I almost screamed. The fists... wow this was awesome.

So it's some shape shifting smoke that is possible controlled by the guy with the patch (Radzinsky?)?
It appeared just after they saw him.

That's what I was thinking. It looked like he was working in a control room. And just because he didn't appear on the screen until after smokey appeared doesn't mean he isn't the man behind the curtain all this time.

Jack, Kate, Sawyer and Hurley each saw hallucinations and survived the experience. Eko ultimately did not. Does smokey have an agenda? Is smokey also responsible for the strange dreams? Does smokey have anything to do with Ben's group? Maybe patchy is part of the group Desmond referred to as the Hostiles. Maybe we thought he as talking about Ben's group but he wasn't.

Yeah but this is weird and bothers me. Why does Smokey get to decide? If this show is NOT PURGATORY than why are they being judged like this? It's really some supernatural force? Or is someone controlling it?
It could be the patchman with his computer controllers....
I'd prefer for it to be the arbitrary choices of a psycho with an eyepatch than a cloud of Smokey deciding fates.

But that's just it... we are now forced to examine what we feel about an entity with an absolute moral system. It's supposed to bother anyne who believes that there no absolutes. It may be more comforting to have that system embodied within Eyepatch Dude... but it's wayyyy scarier to have it embodied by a smoke monster that can make a giant fist! :eek2:

Jack, Kate, Sawyer and Hurley each saw hallucinations and survived the experience. Eko ultimately did not.
Actually, Locke did too. He hallucinated himself to be Eko seeing Yemi. I got that right, didn't I?

yeah this is what i totally inturprited from this too. pretty cool twist i think.

I don't know if smokey is actually deciding who is good and who is bad, although I probably already said just that in a post or two.

Maybe it is seeing if it can "break" the Losties. Hurley and Jack seemed a lot closer to giving over to smokey's wishes than Eko did. Hurley almost jumped, for goodness sakes!

Interestingly, both Hurley and Jack were almost hurled over cliffs because of their visions. Both survived by someone "reaching out" to them. Locke saved Jack, literally with his hand.
Libby saved Hurley with heart.

But that's just it... we are now forced to examine what we feel about an entity with an absolute moral system. It's supposed to bother anyne who believes that there no absolutes. It may be more comforting to have that system embodied within Eyepatch Dude... but it's wayyyy scarier to have it embodied by a smoke monster that can make a giant fist! :eek2:

Yeah, I see it... but I don't like it. Cause it freaks me out a little. And well, I don't wan to think a Smoke monster is deciding!!!:eek2:

Well I already posted something similar on the "Bright White Light" thread, but I'll add this here, too, since it seems more all-encompassing of tonight's monster reveals...

Did anyone else notice that the monster seemed to be, for lack of a better word, "scared" of Locke? Like, it was sneaking up on Eko, and it turned tail right as Locke & company were coming up on Eko. Did it just not want to be seen, or did it have something to do with its "relationship" with Locke?

Well, after this episode I am entirely convinced that the walking talking hallucinations we have seen on the island are all manifestations of smokey. This would definitely include Yemi, Christian and Dave, and probably Ana Lucia (in ?) and Kate's horse. I'm not sure about Boone and Shannon, since both appeared following the usage of Locke's wacky paste. Even if we actually witnessed Yemi transform into smokey, I wouldn't be more convinced than I am right now.
don't forget about the boar that was messing around with Sawyer

Well, I wouldn't be surprised if SOMEONE is controlling smokey. Over in the whispers thread, we have found hidden audio (voices) in the randomest placest, like in the growls of the polar bear that attacked Walt. Someone on the island has SOMETHING to do with these phenomena, I just don't know who it is or how it works.

I'm close though, right? :biggrin:

Laura, great minds think alike. ;)

It think it may be linked to the one-eyed man...why? He seemed to immediately know when "his hatch" was being watched. He didn't just cut it off, he let them see him before he cut it off.

Interestingly, both Hurley and Jack were almost hurled over cliffs because of their visions.
When did Jack almost fall off of a cliff?

Also I don't know if Hurley's visions count, since Dave isn't even a real person.

Well, now going back to last season's finale, does this mean that Yemi that Eko saw in the hatch was this same entity? Because I was really freaked out and disturbed by that Yemi, and I didn't believe it was Eko's brother at all. I found him menacing. Does this mean that after Locke's admission to Eko that he was wrong, he may well have been right?

When did Jack almost fall off of a cliff?

Also I don't know if Hurley's visions count, since Dave isn't even a real person.
Episode 105: "White Rabbit," when he's chasing his father.

No, Dave wasn't a real person, but was Kate's horse real, either? And Christian was dead, so he wasn't real by the time they were on the island either.

I'm going to go with it being all Smokey. C'mon -- the thing pounded Eko into a TREE with a fist. That deserves some respect.

Well, after this episode I am entirely convinced that the walking talking hallucinations we have seen on the island are all manifestations of smokey. This would definitely include Yemi, Christian and Dave, and probably Ana Lucia (in ?) and Kate's horse. I'm not sure about Boone and Shannon, since both appeared following the usage of Locke's wacky paste. Even if we actually witnessed Yemi transform into smokey, I wouldn't be more convinced than I am right now.

Yep, been saying that for forever. HURLEY... HURLEY... Bird is smokey too. Smokey is the ISLAND and the ISLAND IS GETTING RESTLESS!!! It is PISSED OFF! that the Swan went tits up, and now it is going after those who didn't push the button... "We're next". I would be asking why did Smokey want the Swan Station to still exsist and the button to be pushed?

When did Jack almost fall off of a cliff?

Also I don't know if Hurley's visions count, since Dave isn't even a real person.

He almost fell to his death off a cliff in White Rabbit. Christian (or Smokey) then led Jack to The Caves.

And the Monster scanned Eko's memories in 23rd Psalm so it doesn't matter if Dave was real or not... if its in a dude's mind Smokey can apparently make it real.

Butttttt...

Remember Libby's husband was named "David." Wouldn't it be awesome if Hurley's imaginary friend ends up also playing Libby's husband when we see her return in someone's flashback?

100%
C'mon -- the thing pounded Eko into a TREE with a fist. That deserves some respect.

I peed my pants. :biggrin:

Big props to Smokey!

Can we confirm that Smokey is the one who makes the 5 o'clock whistle sound? I know we heard it when the losties were in the monitoring hatch, but I'm not sure I've always heard that sound when Smokey is around. I know for sure the popping sound is correlated with Smokey--and the trees popping out of the ground. But the loud roaring sound--is that Smokey, too? Or something different? Was Danielle calling Smokey the "security system" or the sound?

Great thread guys...I totally agree with everyone - Smokey was indeed Yemi and most likely Christian, the horse, etc. I don't think it was acutally posessing the bodies. Yemi's corpse was badly decomposed, and he looked normal when Eko saw him. It is weird that the body disappeared. I think the first time Eko saw the monster it "scanned" him and figured out what his demons were. It could have done that to Kate, Jack, and others offscreen. It's weird that it was very active at first, when its territory was invaded and then dropped off the radar. Now, the hatch is gone and its back again. I really like the idea of Smokey being independent and having its own moral code. It's way creepier and more intriguing than someone controlling it. I definitely think this is the reason the people from the fuselage were mostly left alone by the Others. They would have to cross through smokey territory and that looks pretty hazardous to your health. I wonder if it would have spared Eko had he atoned for his sins?

Nice catch about it making a fist, btw. I didn't notice that the first time - I was too busy freaking out. Also, it first surfaced way before the trek to the pearl. I noticed it as early as the first scene of Eko out in the jungle by itself.

Well, now going back to last season's finale, does this mean that Yemi that Eko saw in the hatch was this same entity? Because I was really freaked out and disturbed by that Yemi, and I didn't believe it was Eko's brother at all. I found him menacing. Does this mean that after Locke's admission to Eko that he was wrong, he may well have been right?
When Yemi told Eko that he needed to help John find his faith again, that seemed reasonable to have been Yemi and that God gave Eko that vision of his brother for guidance. Maybe some of the things people are seeing are sent by God and some are sent by the monster?

Could the smoke be the polar bear? It came back for him after Locke saved him from the cave? I know at one time the bears lived on the other('s) island, but if it can take the shape of people who really existed, why not the bears?

I forgot to look: How many fingers did that fist have?

When Yemi told Eko that he needed to help John find his faith again, that seemed reasonable to have been Yemi and that God gave Eko that vision of his brother for guidance. Maybe some of the things people are seeing are sent by God and some are sent by the monster?


So are you saying that the smoke is the fist of God, and it smites those who do not repent?

And the Monster scanned Eko's memories in 23rd Psalm so it doesn't matter if Dave was real or not... if its in a dude's mind Smokey can apparently make it real.
I don't know about that. So far the monster has mostly projected dead people, which seems to make sense since it's been hinted at that its name is "Cerberus". I don't know why we have to attribute Hurley's visions of Dave with the monster. Hurley was already crazy. I mean there's already a rational explanation for him seeing Dave, I don't see any reason to involve the monster in it.

I don't know about that. So far the monster has mostly projected dead people, which seems to make sense since it's been hinted at that its name is "Cerberus". I don't know why we have to attribute Hurley's visions of Dave with the monster. Hurley was already crazy. I mean there's already a rational explanation for him seeing Dave, I don't see any reason to involve the monster in it.

Dave's shoe could be seen by others on the island, so there was some sort of physical manifestation.

I don't know about that. So far the monster has mostly projected dead people, which seems to make sense since it's been hinted at that its name is "Cerberus". I don't know why we have to attribute Hurley's visions of Dave with the monster. Hurley was already crazy. I mean there's already a rational explanation for him seeing Dave, I don't see any reason to involve the monster in it.

The alter boy is not dead (that we know of) and smokey projected him tonight. I also think it is safe to say it was Walt when Shannon saw him.

I've wondered for awhile if smokie can be controlled by some extend by others with powers like Walt's. Perhaps there are at least two factions of others, each maintaining some level of control over it. Walt was "more than we bargained for" because he had too much control over it for Benry's tastes. Perhaps Walt's influence is what spared Eco in his first meeting. It appears that patchdude was in control tonight...

Great thread guys...I totally agree with everyone - Smokey was indeed Yemi and most likely Christian, the horse, etc. I don't think it was acutally posessing the bodies. Yemi's corpse was badly decomposed, and he looked normal when Eko saw him. It is weird that the body disappeared. I think the first time Eko saw the monster it "scanned" him and figured out what his demons were. It could have done that to Kate, Jack, and others offscreen. It's weird that it was very active at first, when its territory was invaded and then dropped off the radar. Now, the hatch is gone and its back again. I really like the idea of Smokey being independent and having its own moral code. It's way creepier and more intriguing than someone controlling it. I definitely think this is the reason the people from the fuselage were mostly left alone by the Others. They would have to cross through smokey territory and that looks pretty hazardous to your health. I wonder if it would have spared Eko had he atoned for his sins?

Nice catch about it making a fist, btw. I didn't notice that the first time - I was too busy freaking out. Also, it first surfaced way before the trek to the pearl. I noticed it as early as the first scene of Eko out in the jungle by itself.



I think a lot of people on this board are making a mistake in assuming that every vision is actaully smokey. The only vision that has been malevolent is yemi in tonights episode. All other visions have been either helpful or neutral. Smokey is the Horse? Come on.

Dave's shoe could be seen by others on the island, so there was some sort of physical manifestation.
So the monster manifested himself into a single shoe. Hardcore.

I also think it is safe to say it was Walt when Shannon saw him.
Why? It's been alluded to multiple times that Walt has powers, it makes perfect sense that Walt appearing to people was his own doing, not the monster's.

Maybe it just distinguishes and kills those who have "murder in their hearts." Maybe Patch turned it on after they saw him on camera from the Pearl.

Dave's shoe could be seen by others on the island, so there was some sort of physical manifestation.

No, Libby said she didn't see Hurley holdign a slipper. So unless she was lying. . .

No one else claimed to see it, either.

Someone was saying earlier in this thread, to lazy to go find it again, that maybe Smokie was afraid of Locke. Also that when Locke saw it it was a bright light. Didn't Smokie try to pull Locke down a hole in the first season? Didn't seem to scared of him then and it didn't look like a bright light then either.

I think a lot of people on this board are making a mistake in assuming that every vision is actaully smokey. The only vision that has been malevolent is yemi in tonights episode. All other visions have been either helpful or neutral. Smokey is the Horse? Come on.

Well, I don't think we all think that ALL of those weird halluncinations and manifestations are Smokey. But some or most of them may be. We're just sort of... listing. :cool:

I'm really happy about this plot development. I've been saying this since "Outlaws" since Sawyer's boar was accompanied by the whispering voice from his past ...the hallucinations, monster, voices/noises are all the same thing.

Now it's all coming together. The people they saw, the animals they saw, everything crazy we've seen so far that isn't the Others is all one single thing.

Didn't seem to scared of him then and it didn't look like a bright light then either.
Maybe that's why it freaked him out? He first saw this bright, glowing thing and then later saw this creepy blob of black smoke hovering over him.

No, Libby said she didn't see Hurley holdign a slipper. So unless she was lying. . .

No one else claimed to see it, either.




My bad.

A theory - Smokey can appear as all these things, so it's possible he can appear as Walt. If it was indeed Smokey appearing as Walt saying "Don't push the button, the button is bad" at the beginning of season two, then it fits right in with what someone else was saying earlier that Smokey was trying to break Locke by guding him and Eko to the Pearl. This led to the collapse of the Swan, which might have been Smokey's agenda all along.

wow, just finished watching the episode and I have to say so many people on this board got it right that smokey could manifest itself into many of the visions we've had on the island, I haven't rread it in this thread yet but it's also very likely that smokey took the form of the mafia men Eko saw in the woods and the little boy that told him to confess.
As well notice the little boy put his finger up to his mouth and said "shh" just like wet walt did in the jungle. (though this boy wasn't talking backwards)

Perhaps Smokey is capable of judgement because it is a form of AI that has developed a conscience of soul - like that of a human. Perhaps Smokey is acting the part of vigilante.

So we can say with certainty that smokey actually physically killed Eko. For me, a person that tends to want to analyze the show through a realistic lens, this is a hard pill to swallow. But there it was, played out in front of our eyes, swirly black smoke formed into a fist, thrusting Eko into trees and delivering the final blow by dropping Eko from high up onto the forest floor!

I'm still resisting the urge to gleen too much more than this. As other people have already noted, there a plenty of other explainations that could account for other Lostie's 'visions' on the island. (Hurley, Walt, Charlie, and Boone stuff)

But I can't deny the strong parellels that are drawn between Eko's encounters with smokey Yemi, and Jack's encounters with smokey Christian. (constant chase through the wood, missing dead bodies, unfinished business with the dead, dissappearance and reappearance and more) And there were clearly those same mechanical noises (Rouseau's mechanized patrol system,tree moving thingy), so I'd also concede a connection to the thing that grabbed the pilot.

Holy smokes! My realistic lenses are getting foggy!

What I still don't get is the purpose of it uprooting trees... It didn't uproot any today, but usually that's how it announces its presense.

Also notable is that whatever Yemi really was, he/it was able to set fire to Eko's tent...

Do you think the Others have any control over it? I don't.

No, I do not think the others can control the smoke monster, but I do think they are aware of it. That could be the reason why they chose to send Colleen's body out to sea, instead of burieing her.

But I can't deny the strong parellels that are drawn between Eko's encounters with smokey Yemi, and Jack's encounters with smokey Christian.

..another connection between the two, is guilt. Eko indirectly caused Yemi's death, when he brought Yemi in the middle of his drug trade business. If Eko never requested Yemi's help, than Yemi would not have been force on to the plane, and he wouldn't have died.

Jack blow up at Christian at his AA meeting, might have cause Christian to fall off the wagon so to speak. Jack causing Christian to lose his license, indirectly might have cause him to give up on life( remember what Jack's mother said to him?, and might have cause Christian's death. Therefore both Eko, and Jack might be harboring a lot of guilt, over their action. Which led to smoky taking over their form.


So could the smoke monster had appear as "Walt to Shannon?, could it appear as Vincent? ( where is vincent, anyway? I haven't seen the dog since he found Charlie's drugs)

...also, could it have been the smoke monster that really brought down the plane? in episode 1: 01, you can see what look like something black, flying around the plane.

Question: If Eko didn't continue to follow, Yemi (aka Smoke monster) after he made it clear that he wasn't his brother, would Eko had still been killed?

Well, now going back to last season's finale, does this mean that Yemi that Eko saw in the hatch was this same entity? Because I was really freaked out and disturbed by that Yemi, and I didn't believe it was Eko's brother at all. I found him menacing. Does this mean that after Locke's admission to Eko that he was wrong, he may well have been right? I'd say you're right shootfire. I posted something like this last season, that this was the island sending a vision (Yemi) that Eko would trust but it shouldn't be trusted. So in the end, hopefully Locke was right after all. The island could have wanted the button pushed to avoid detection, but Locke stopped the button and the island was detected.

Did anyone else notice that the monster seemed to be, for lack of a better word, "scared" of Locke? Like, it was sneaking up on Eko, and it turned tail right as Locke & company were coming up on Eko. Did it just not want to be seen, or did it have something to do with its "relationship" with Locke?

I notice that too. The smoke monster seem to go away, when Locke and the other came up on Eko. We assume that it was scared of Locke, but Locke wasn't alone, so maybe it was scared away by someone else within Locke's group. ( was Sayid with Locke when he came upon Eko the first time?...and since Sun and Jin were"Awol in this episode, are we sure that Sayid is indeed Sayid?)


When did Jack almost fall off of a cliff?

In White Rabbit while following what he thought was his father, he almost feel off a cliff, until he was save by Locke. ...later in that same episode, Jack follow his father again, and he led him to water. (Note: could there be two monster? one good, and one evil?)

Also I don't know if Hurley's visions count, since Dave isn't even a real person.

While we no that Dave do not exist, doesn't mean that there never was a Dave. I often wonder if the Hurley Dave,and Libby husband David are one of the same. ..or at least there might be some connection.

I actually think it's possible that the smoke has reanimated Yemi's and Christian's corpses. Both bodies are missing.

QUITE an interesting theory, I like it a lot.

When Yemi told Eko that he needed to help John find his faith again, that seemed reasonable to have been Yemi and that God gave Eko that vision of his brother for guidance. Maybe some of the things people are seeing are sent by God and some are sent by the monster?

So are you saying that the smoke is the fist of God, and it smites those who do not repent?

Interesting. So now, besides all the talk about God, whether people there are believing in Him, can He see the island, etc... now we have a seemingly sentient, possibly mind-reading not-entirely-benevolent creature that hides in the shadows and presents itself under the guise of illusion for its own agenda. Oh, and it might seem to demand some allegiance or confession.

Is this the island's own Lord of Lies? And even if it's not, doesn't all that also describe the Others as well? Maybe it's just serial television mystery-building, but the parallel is intriguing to me.

My vote is that neither the Others nor Mr. Eyepatch have any connection with Smokey. I guess I'm still betting on the multitude of voices being connected to it -- is it a collective of the dead? pretty strong fist -- but I'm guessing that nothing short of Dharma proper has a current connection to it.

As for the fire starting in the Eko's tent, where there's smoke... right? If this thing has anything to do with a "Flame" station, or the Lord of Lies, isn't it possible it has some fire in its bag of tricks?

100%
The island could have wanted the button pushed to avoid detection, but Locke stopped the button and the island was detected.

And in an entirely different direction, could Smokey be somehow connected to the regular release of electromagnetic energy once provided by the Swan Station? I'm not sure connected how, but benefitting from it?

If so, must be real pissed now.

Maybe it was Smokey talking through Eko's corpse when Locke heard that "we're next."

1) the fact that eko sees black smoke and locke sees white light confused the heck out of me. why the difference? i'm glad they finally had locke tell SOMEONE what he saw. up to this point we had no clue but what we could assume was the smoke monster.

2) why does the black smoke/white light let some people go and then kill people on the flip of a dime (see: the pilot and eko). the black smoke looked eko right in the face and it did nothing to him in season 2.

3) we also know now that the black smoke has the ability to take other forms, which makes me think when jack saw his father, this was the black smoke taking his father's form. it also appear as if the smoke monster likes to take bodies of the dead as well. jack's fathers coffin was empty and yemi's body was no where to be found.

4) why would the smoke monster have taken the form of eko's brother and when eko clears his conscience to him, it's response is "why are you telling me this as if i'm your brother?". WELL YOU LOOK JUST LIKE HIM WHAT WOULD YOU EXPECT EKO TO DO?

once again. some questions answered (somewhat). but even more questions brought about!!

1) the fact that eko sees black smoke and locke sees white light confused the heck out of me. why the difference? i'm glad they finally had locke tell SOMEONE what he saw. up to this point we had no clue but what we could assume was the smoke monster.

2) why does the black smoke/white light let some people go and then kill people on the flip of a dime (see: the pilot and eko). the black smoke looked eko right in the face and it did nothing to him in season 2.

3) we also know now that the black smoke has the ability to take other forms, which makes me think when jack saw his father, this was the black smoke taking his father's form. it also appear as if the smoke monster likes to take bodies of the dead as well. jack's fathers coffin was empty and yemi's body was no where to be found.

4) why would the smoke monster have taken the form of eko's brother and when eko clears his conscience to him, it's response is "why are you telling me this as if i'm your brother?". WELL YOU LOOK JUST LIKE HIM WHAT WOULD YOU EXPECT EKO TO DO?

once again. some questions answered (somewhat). but even more questions brought about!!

Is there any likelihood Locke described what he saw as a "white light" -- a very bland, almost stereotypical description of something supernatural -- only to allow Eko the chance to fully describe what he saw, without John's description to dilute it? Just a thought -- that Locke's "white light" is really a red herring.

And not like I know, but to comment on your points 2 + 4, BOOYEAHachieved, I would say the difference in Smokey's behaviour suggests either reason -- Smokey acts (and manifests) differently in order to manipulate someone -- and / or it is emotional & vengeful about something. I'm guessing more likely the former.

I forgot to look: How many fingers did that fist have?

I WAS THINKING THE SAME THING!

Smokey as Cindy.

Since she was in the front of the plane, unless she did a wind sprint to the tail section, it would follow that she died in the front of the plane. Would also possibly explain her sudden disapperance in the jungle. And maybe Cindy was only seen on the Island by Ana Lucia and Sawyer (best I can remember the only characters who talked directly to her or made reference to her, but I could be wrong on that one).

Just a thought.

I thought it was interesting that Eko fell and a *small* bit of smokey came out. The *small* bit has lived there for a while. Wonder who else has a bit a smokey!

I don't believe the reanimation theory. Dave was just as real as Yemi.

I support the theory that Locke's visit from Boone may have been protected by the church/lodge thing. I'm thinking smokey was the wolf at the end.

Has anyone mentioned that the bear cave may have been smokey's. It is apparent - to me at least - that it likes to collect things like dead bodies and toy trucks maybe.

I thought it was interesting that Eko fell and a *small* bit of smokey came out. The *small* bit has lived there for a while. Wonder who else has a bit a smokey!


I would say a bunch of Oceanic 815 passengers have a little bit of smokey in them:

http://mrfind.blogspot.com/2006/02/eyes-wide-open-for-mini-smokeys-cameo.html

Smokey as Dave just doesn't wash for me.
No one else sees Dave at the food drop when he first appears to Hurley
Libby never saw the slipper Hurley was holding
Dave was just as "real" in the nut house as he was on the island.I mean if Hurley can see imaginary people prior to crashing on the island, stands to reason he can see them on the island as well (esp. since it's the same guy). No need for smokey to be involved.

Possible Smokey sightings I can think of:
Jack's dad
Wet Walt
Kate's horse
The "Hurley" bird from Season 2 finale
Yemi and the Emeka zombiesAm I missing anything?

What if Smokey is a manifestation of the things that the individual has to resolve morally? I don't believe that Eko's death was someone in a hatch flipping a switch. I believe that Eko was going to die anyway as a result of his injuries. This episode made it clear that he had a lot of moral choices in his life. Now that he was at the end of it, he was reflecting on all the things he'd done.

If Smokey is summoned from the mind of the people that need to deal with their issues, that could be an interesting twist that we've not seen yet.

So who was the original creator of Smokey, the incredible mind reading machine?

I don't believe it makes moral judgements. I don't believe it makes choices. I don't believe it is controlled by the others. It seems to me its a big mirror reflecting back into the lives of the people who are ready to see it and deal with it.

What if Smokey is a manifestation of the things that the individual has to resolve morally? I don't believe that Eko's death was someone in a hatch flipping a switch. I believe that Eko was going to die anyway as a result of his injuries. This episode made it clear that he had a lot of moral choices in his life. Now that he was at the end of it, he was reflecting on all the things he'd done.

If Smokey is summoned from the mind of the people that need to deal with their issues, that could be an interesting twist that we've not seen yet.

So who was the original creator of Smokey, the incredible mind reading machine?

I don't believe it makes moral judgements. I don't believe it makes choices. I don't believe it is controlled by the others. It seems to me its a big mirror reflecting back into the lives of the people who are ready to see it and deal with it.


Not saying you're wrong, because it's an interesting theory and makes just as much sense as saying Smokey is sentient.... but what about it grabbing the pilot? If it in fact DID grab the pilot... you can't trust it if it happens offscreen.

Read through this thread, and only one (by iamlost2 i think) mention of the possibility of Vincent being Smokey? The first thing we see in episode 1 of this series after Jack's eyes is Vincent. Then he takes off. Sure, I'm biased based on my screen name, but I will still hang on to the belief that there is more to Vincent than we have been shown.

Not saying you're wrong, because it's an interesting theory and makes just as much sense as saying Smokey is sentient.... but what about it grabbing the pilot? If it in fact DID grab the pilot... you can't trust it if it happens offscreen.

The pilot was pretty close to death at the time he was mysteriously pulled through the front window.

More thoughts: Hurley is a pretty introspective guy. He's not shallow. He's a heavy thinker that had enough weighing on his conscience to make him commit himself for feeling responsibility for the deaths of the people on the balcony. Hurley has seen the "Hurley Bird" in times when he's been frightened and not sure what to do.

Uh... is this a monster size Jimminey Cricket?

Well, after this episode I am entirely convinced that the walking talking hallucinations we have seen on the island are all manifestations of smokey. This would definitely include Yemi, Christian and Dave, and probably Ana Lucia (in ?) and Kate's horse. I'm not sure about Boone and Shannon, since both appeared following the usage of Locke's wacky paste. Even if we actually witnessed Yemi transform into smokey, I wouldn't be more convinced than I am right now.

I agree, mostly. It was probably not the horse, or dave since Hurley already used to hallucinate him before arriving at the island. probably not ana lucia, since that was a dream.

I believe Smokey was only Christian in "White Rabbit", Dave in "Dave" and Yemi in "Cost of Living". I think everything else can be explained naturally. (Like a horse found it's way to the Island from the Hydra zoo that coincidentally looked the same as the horse Kate saw in flashbaak.)

I bring up Dave because...

(Spoiler from a Season 2 podcast)

Answering a question as to why Smokey only appeared once in Season 2, Damon said it actually appeared again, but we probably didn't realize we were seeing it at the time. Gregg Nations then said it was an appearance after the 23rd Psalm which discounts Kate's horse but brings Dave into play.

Maybe Smokey can only assume the form of dead bodies on the islands, like Yemi and Jack's dad. If the others know about this maybe it's why they set Colleen afloat and burned her so that Smokey could not take her form.

I agree. I think the black smoke is controlled by the guy with the eye patch...perhaps another group of "others". I think it's also a good theory that the smoke can reanimate dead bodies. That would explain Jack's dad and Yemi's bodies missing.

It's good to have the old Locke back, even if it's at the expense of Ecko.

Maybe Smokey can only assume the form of dead bodies on the islands, like Yemi and Jack's dad. If the others know about this maybe it's why they set Colleen afloat and burned her so that Smokey could not take her form.

A) I agree that smokey can only assume the form of dead people. In fact both Yemi and Christian have been somewhat evil. Yemi tried to kill Eko in the begining of this episode.

B) I think people have been in a rush to attribute every vision to Smokey. I don't think Locke's Wacky Paste visions are Smokey. It seems possible, even probable that the Island is sentient, and is a distinct entity from Smokey. the 'Wet Walt' visions appeared to be of a helpful nature.As for Hurley seeing Dave, well Hurley saw Dave pre-island. The Horse, also seems to not be Smokey, we know Dharama ran experiements, including bears, and sharks, why not horses?

C)We don't have proof that Yemi was Smokey. It seems that way, but no 100% proof.

So the monster manifested himself into a single shoe. Hardcore.


Why? It's been alluded to multiple times that Walt has powers, it makes perfect sense that Walt appearing to people was his own doing, not the monster's.

Because it was Walt's appearance that led Shannon to her death. Granted it was an "accident" but if Smokey knows all (or patchy controls it and sees all) it knew A.L and the group were coming and were jumpy. I also think from what we saw in the Pearl station and from Desmond that it was not Walt talking to Michael on the computer. (more to make me believe that he does not have special powers).

Also notable is that whatever Yemi really was, he/it was able to set fire to Eko's tent...

I totally forgot about that. But if Smokey can kill Eko, it can start a fire, I guess. :drowsy:

I totally forgot about that. But if Smokey can kill Eko, it can start a fire, I guess. :drowsy:

Yeah I think Yemi had a lighter in his hand when he saw Eko in the tent. He probably used the lighter to set a fire. What I wonder is whether smokey was holding a real lighter or if smokey can create fire as well. I wonder if smokey was the one who actually lit Michael's raft on fire.

Yeah I think Yemi had a lighter in his hand when he saw Eko in the tent. He probably used the lighter to set a fire. What I wonder is whether smokey was holding a real lighter or if smokey can create fire as well. I wonder if smokey was the one who actually lit Michael's raft on fire.

You think Smokey might have been the blonde woman on the raft who threw the molotov cocktail? :confused:

omg I almost posted that and realized you meant the first raft.
You don't think it was Walt? Walt said it was him.

You think Smokey might have been the blonde woman on the raft who threw the molotov cocktail? :confused:

Hehe when I wrote that post I was thinking about whether I should clarify I meant Michael's first raft, but I got lazy! oops!

omg I almost posted that and realized you meant the first raft.
You don't think it was Walt? Walt said it was him.

I was never convinced it was Walt, I always thought it was weird that Walt said he set the raft on fire. He could have thought about it, and smokey picked up his thoughts and made them an actuality. Since Walt has a history of weird things happening, he could have thought he actually did set the raft on fire by thinking about it. Right now, I'm thinking Walt's likely giong to have a connection to smokey and that's how TPTB will give us some resoultion to his storyline and what happened to him, just a guess on my part though.

BTW I'm surprised this thread and your smokey thread were never merged.

Maybe I'm too much of a realist, but I just figured Eko lit the hut on fire in his delusional dream state. But if it was Smokey, I'd be really impressed.

Maybe I'm too much of a realist, but I just figured Eko lit the hut on fire in his delusional dream state. But if it was Smokey, I'd be really impressed.

You're a realist AND you watch lost, wow that's a rarity ;)

was there a campfire inside Eko's tent, I don't remember it

Because it was Walt's appearance that led Shannon to her death. Granted it was an "accident" but if Smokey knows all (or patchy controls it and sees all) it knew A.L and the group were coming and were jumpy. I also think from what we saw in the Pearl station and from Desmond that it was not Walt talking to Michael on the computer. (more to make me believe that he does not have special powers).
If I recall correctly, Walt didn't really lead Shannon anywhere. She saw Walt and then sort of went off into an abitrary direction, looking for him, when in reality he could have been anywhere and similarly she could have looked anyway.

We've seen that the monster is a powerful thing. It survived a dynamite blast. The way it killed Eko surpassed even my expectations of what it was capable of, physically. I don't see why it would have to kill Shannon in such a roundabout way when it could probably massacre all of the Losties in one swoop if it wanted to.

Well, after this episode I am entirely convinced that the walking talking hallucinations we have seen on the island are all manifestations of smokey. This would definitely include Yemi, Christian and Dave, and probably Ana Lucia (in ?) and Kate's horse. I'm not sure about Boone and Shannon, since both appeared following the usage of Locke's wacky paste. Even if we actually witnessed Yemi transform into smokey, I wouldn't be more convinced than I am right now.


Do you think Danielle also falls into this category?

Do you think Danielle also falls into this category?

Ooo, I have to think about this one, it never crossed my mind before.

I believe Smokey was only Christian in "White Rabbit", Dave in "Dave" and Yemi in "Cost of Living". I think everything else can be explained naturally. (Like a horse found it's way to the Island from the Hydra zoo that coincidentally looked the same as the horse Kate saw in flashbaak.)

I bring up Dave because...

(Spoiler from a Season 2 podcast)

Answering a question as to why Smokey only appeared once in Season 2, Damon said it actually appeared again, but we probably didn't realize we were seeing it at the time. Gregg Nations then said it was an appearance after the 23rd Psalm which discounts Kate's horse but brings Dave into play.

Totally agree! Thanks for the podcast information.

When Smokey appears as a person, it seems only the one person sees it. I think that it is because a small bit of smokey gets into the person's head.

I do remember at the end of season 2, The LOST producers said that we did see the black smoke in season two but it did not appear as the black smoke.

So.....This definitely confirms that the following can indeed have been the black smoke

Dave to Hurley
Walt to Shannon and Sayid (We did hear whispers)
Ana Lucia to Eko
Chistian to Jack
The Horse to Kate
The Bird to Hurley
Shannon to Boone

I sure there could be more instances that I am forgetting.

I really wanted Jack's dad, Christian to be alive on the island... I'd like to know more about this smokey monster.


holy crap. if that happened and I was Jack, I think it would send me into the deepest psychotic shock that I wouldnt be a very interesting character anymore.