In a Cost of living, Ben explain to Jack that he planned to break him. He also confess that he pick Juliet to talk to Jack, because Juliet looked a lot like Jack's wife Sarah. ( Note: so they do not only have information on Jack, they actually knows how his wife looks. Hmm? )
Ben put on his "Mr. Good guy act" to get Jack to trust him. Juliet , on the other hand, tells Jack that Ben is a very dangerous guy, and that he is not to be trusted. But can we trust Juliet? . Juliet went along with everything Ben has done, she even went along on his plan to break Jack. so how can we be sure that Jack can trust Juliet? It was Juliet that left the x-ray on the table for Jack to see. It was Juliet who ask Jack to try and save Colleen, although , she knew that Colleen was already dead. So Juliet whole purpose was to get Jack to see the x-ray. The x-ray that might , or might not be Ben's. Juliet could be the evil mastermind behind the whole thing.

[i]Do you think Jack should trust Juliet, and let Ben die?, or should Jack trust Ben, and save his life? Do you believe Juliet can be trusted?
[

I wouldn't trust either of them any further than I could toss a cotton ball.

Was nice to see Ben feel he had to come clean with Jack. Guess he thought that was his only chance to get Jack to operate on him, now that Jack was on to him. That does not, however, make Ben an honest broker. Both he and Juliet are playing him to their own ends. The only difference now is that Jack apparently has some bargaining power, some control in this matter. But he's still in that cell, and his friends are still in those cages, and they are all still captives of The Others.

So this is hardly an ideal situation for Jack. But a better one. No wonder he was willing to scarf down that burger!

It's all mind games. Those Others are sneaky.

There is something about Juliet's wry smile. A smile like she's a cat that just ate the canary. I do NOT trust Juliet at all. Remember that Ben did say he wants Jack to WANT to operate on him. I don't think that Jack is that spiteful to do absolutely nothing to help Ben. With Juliet pulling the cue card stunt, I think that it will actually make Jack feel some pity towards Ben and actually want to help him.

The problem I'm having is Juliet and Ben both have offered up reasons why they should be trusted AND distrusted. Ben's saving grace is he actually fessed up to Jack about his "plan". He also appears to have a life-threatening medical situation which explains his motive. Juliet's saving grace is her distaste for Ben was evident BEFORE she came into contact with Jack and the Losties. That seems to indicate that her nudging of Jack is of her own accord and not some facet of a larger plan-a plan that possibly has Ben's blessing. What still needs to be resolved is Juliet's and Ben's endgame. What is it, who does it benefit, and to what end?

There is something about Juliet's wry smile. A smile like she's a cat that just ate the canary. I do NOT trust Juliet at all. Remember that Ben did say he wants Jack to WANT to operate on him. I don't think that Jack is that spiteful to do absolutely nothing to help Ben. With Juliet pulling the cue card stunt, I think that it will actually make Jack feel some pity towards Ben and actually want to help him.

The whole situation reminds me of the Con that Ben played on Sawyer...but I can't figure out why? ...maybe it has something to do with what Goodwin said, about only wanting the "Good Ones". I think they need to test Jack to see if he is truely a good person. I think the others might wants only good people ( although I truely do not think the others are good, to say the least) in their group, to avoid an attack by the smoke monster. ( did you notice they all wore white at Colleen's funeral).

The others can not be trusted. Juliet gives me the Creeps!!

Well, my exact opinion wasn't really represented in the poll, so I picked the closest one. Juliet is evil. He absolutely should not trust her, and he should go ahead and save Ben's life, even if Ben is untrustworthy.

Well, my exact opinion wasn't really represented in the poll, so I picked the closest one. Juliet is evil. He absolutely should not trust her, and he should go ahead and save Ben's life, even if Ben is untrustworthy.

Juliet being the one who actually, evil would go along with what Sawyer said to Kate. Sawyer told Kate that Juliet would have killed her, with out a doubt. Although Juliet is seemly nice, Sawyer viewed her as a ruthless killer. . Sawyer is very insightful, and he knows how to sign up people. So maybe Juliet is more rulthless then Ben.


P/S: What was your actual opinion?

It's all mind games. Those Others are sneaky.

Juliet being the one who actually, evil would go along with what Sawyer said to Kate. Sawyer told Kate that Juliet would have killed her, with out a doubt. Although Juliet is seemly nice, Sawyer viewed her as a ruthless killer. . Sawyer is very insightful, and he knows how to sign up people. So maybe Juliet is more rulthless then Ben.


P/S: What was your actual opinion?

Great points. Jack should trust no one but himself.

He shouldn't trust any of them. Juliet is testing him to see if he will go against Ben. She is trying to see if he will turn on them. She is one of the others and he shouldn't forget that.

Jack should not trust either of them. Both have their own agenda & Jack is useful to both. He should A) perform the surgery to the best of his ability so he has a clear conscience regardless of Ben's plan for Jack postsurgery or B) tell Ben in Juliet's presence what Juliet said. Jack will see everyone's reaction that way.

Or Jack may want to gather more info before making a decision.

I think it's very possible that the video Juliet made is just a scam to get Jack to do something stupid.

However, I've grown to like and trust Juliet, even though she's an Other.

I also developed some sad feelings for Ben this episode, just because of how sad he acted when he was talking to Juliet about the tumor.

BUT...it could very easily just be a huge mind game. Ben was obviously sad about the tumor, but he could have some very bad things he wants to do in his life, and that's why he wants to stay alive, which would mean Juliet would be telling the truth.

But, if Juliet's video was a scam...where would that leave Jack?

Not only are they messing with Jack's mind, but ours as well...

I think they are both messing with Jack's mind.

I think Sawyer said it right on the mark - "the blond would have killed you".

Trust neither, play both. Clearly these are depraved people. How many times exactly has Sawyer been beaten (as a captive) since he arrived at the Other's camp??? Ben personally whooped up on him once. And Juliet is - what? - powerless to stop any of this even tho "they all make decisions together?"

Yeah, there's definitely something up with the way they're running things.

I guess this last episode has me thinking about the Others and Smokey. The others seemed obsessed with good and bad. Could they be subject to Smokey evaluating them on the island ? If Juliet did indeed want to knock off Benry, she couldn't do it in cold blood or Smokey would take it out on her later. However if she had Jack do the dirty work, he would be the one in trouble with Smokey.....any thoughts ??

Unless Smokey knows the truth. Ah.

Which I believe he/she/it does.

Juliet's creepy. Ben's creepy. Jack shouldn't trust either of them. But if it's a lesser of two evils, I'd say Ben would be. If he really is their leader, it seems like Juliet is trying to overthrow him and become an even more ruthless leader.

((Although I do say that Jack and Juliet would be cute together... but no))

Jack can't trust anyone, especially the Others. Yes Juliet could be telling Jack the truth, but Jack can't afford to gamble on that. However I hate Benry, so I would let him die. Plus there is no way to ensure any promises from Benry, Juliet or any other Other. They need to go down for what they have done!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:furious:

A fertility Doctor who urges another Doctor to join with her in breaking their Hippocratic oaths to murder a patient on the operating table?, heck yeah she sounds like someone to trust.

In his place I would be worried that her promise of protection would also be a betrayal that would end in making him the fall guy for the death. On the other hand in her favor she is a nice looking blond and thus obviously trustworthy.

I think they all have been on the island way toooooo long and never have had a life - neither should be trusted !!!

I think that Jack should learn more if possible.
For some reason I don't trust Juliet.
I don't trust Ben either.
But I'd trust Ben before I'd trust Juliet because Ben is putting his life in Jack's hands.:undecide:

Juliet's creepy. Ben's creepy. Jack shouldn't trust either of them. But if it's a lesser of two evils, I'd say Ben would be. If he really is their leader, it seems like Juliet is trying to overthrow him and become an even more ruthless leader.


I'd say Juliet is the lesser IMHO. she seems a bit "softer around the edges"

For some reason I don't trust Juliet.
I don't trust Ben either.
But I'd trust Ben before I'd trust Juliet because Ben is putting his life in Jack's hands.:undecide:

I agree with all of these statements.

If it's even possible to trust someone who doesn't exist, I trust Sawyer :) . I think Juliet is dangerous. Ben I think likes to mess with people's heads but I get the impression if it came down to it, he wouldn't kill anyone.

However, I still get the feeling Ben has the whole Jack situation under control. I thought Ben 'fessing up about the 'plan' WAS part of the plan.

So, Jack :) - don't trust either of them but if you have to, go with Ben

I think it's like having to choose between Lucretia Borgia and Niccolo Macchiavelli. Sawyer called Juliet a 'killer' (and I believe his instincts there) and we know Ben is as cruel and devious a character as we've ever seen on Lost.
Poor Jack, he just loves to make judgements and this ones going to be a real mother... Someone dies either way, I suspect.

Oldwiz

I would stake money on Juliet being even more evil than Ben, which is very scary.

Juliet is bad. Ben is good.

I would stake money on Juliet being even more evil than Ben, which is very scary.

agree!!
but I still want Jack to trust Juliet! This could be the best plot on this season!

I think the only Other we can fully trust is Alex.

I think the only Other we can fully trust is Alex.

While Alex seem nice, I'm not so keen about trusting her just jet. Alex was a baby when the others had taken her from her mother, therefore she was likely raise up in their belief system, and their influences.

While Alex seem nice, I'm not so keen about trusting her just jet. Alex was a baby when the others had taken her from her mother, therefore she was likely raise up in their belief system, and their influences.

But she doesn't seem to enjoy them much.

What leverage could Jack have over Juliet? I think that's the key.

What if Jack really does kill Ben and then Juliet starts blaming it on Jack?

Trust either Juliet or Ben. :badwords: no!:mad:

I think that the thing with Ben is that he looks like he would be the creeper of the bunch, but Juliet's pretty and looks normal. I just usually go with the "it's always the ones you don't expect..." theory.

Yeah, that theory seems to apply to Lost A LOT.

Regarding Juliet...


In the last issue of TV Guide there is an article about Elizabeth Mitchell (Juliet). The interviewer says Eliz films a scene in which Juliet shoots someone on the beach (to be aired in a Feb episode) and then she returns to their interview.

Like the Well Manicured Man said on X-Files (it was him, right?)...."Trust No One"!!

Remember that Ben himself went to meet Jack last session.. He let himself get caught! He might be a good guy... maybe? :undecide:

I really don't think he's good, no.

Remember that Ben himself went to meet Jack last session.. He let himself get caught! He might be a good guy... maybe? :undecide:If Ben let himself be caught why did he run so hard when Danielle cut down the net? I think getting caught was a fluke accident he did not plan for.

Alex? As pointed out above, she was raised by the Others and thus learned their value system.

I think Jack is faced with the enemy(Juliet) of my enemy(Ben) is my friend which is a very risky premise to operate on. (Despite the fact that Juliet is too purdy to be bad.) :biggrin:

As pointed out above, she was raised by the Others and thus learned their value system.

Yes, she was raised by them but she doesn't seem to like them or their beliefs much.

I, personally, would not trust either one. Juliet could have the motive of getting rid of Ben in order to take his place as leader of the Others. Once that is done, no need for Jack and so the ball is out of his court. The key for Jack is to try to have leverage on both Ben and Juliet, since they seem to be the ones in contact with him the most.

X-Files said it best, "Trust no one."

I've said this before...

With the others, you can never know what's staged and what's for real.

I'm leaning more and more toward the line of thinking that it's ALL staged!



Trust neither, play both.

Absolutely!

I think it's most likely that the whole Ben's confession bit, and Juliet's videotape are little dramas contrived to judge Jack's reaction. He shouldn't trust either of them.

Don't get me wrong, I'd kinda LIKE it if Jack could trust Juliet, but I just don't think it's gonna go that way.



Poor Jack, he just loves to make judgements and this ones going to be a real mother... Someone dies either way, I suspect.

You're probably right.




I think the only Other we can fully trust is Alex.

I wouldn't count on it schweetheart!

For the record I think her little secret conversation with Kate (that's my dress) was probably staged too.





Remember that Ben himself went to meet Jack last session.. He let himself get caught! He might be a good guy... maybe? :undecide:


I doubt it. I think he absolutely meant to infultrate the survivor's camp. He probably didn't intend to get shot by Danielle, or for Sayid to beat the crap out of him. but I don't think he was 'caught' by accident. (Part of me kinda wishes Sayid had beat him a little harder!)

[QUOTE][He also appears to have a life-threatening medical situation /QUOTE]

How can anyone have a life-threatening illness on an island where folks "get healed?"
Rose, Locke, Jin (maybe), Charlie, etc.

RuneMuse

I haven't read all the posts here...but what if it's a trick and there's no tumor...The xrays are someone else (possibly not even on the island) I think both Juliet and Ben are conning Jack!

i think Ben is being honest well relatively with Jack and that if he succeeds he will take jack back. I think Juliet is the one to watch out for though i think she could be trying to get power

I don't understand why Juliet wants Jack to kill Ben. If Ben has a tumor on his spine he will be paralyzed to some extent very soon. Eventually he could die.
If Juliet hates him due to his position or power over her his being paralyzed would take him out of power.
Juliet has nothing to gain by his murder since she can just wait for his dehabilation or death. This leads me to believe she is setting Jack up for a fall or she and Ben are submitting Jack to an experiment.
Trust neither of them.

Juliet being the one who actually, evil would go along with what Sawyer said to Kate. Sawyer told Kate that Juliet would have killed her, with out a doubt. Although Juliet is seemly nice, Sawyer viewed her as a ruthless killer. . Sawyer is very insightful, and he knows how to sign up people. So maybe Juliet is more rulthless then Ben.


P/S: What was your actual opinion?

I feel that Juliet is very untrustworthy, even more so than Ben. I also personally want to believe that Ben was being honest when he came to Jack with his little confession. However, even if he is still trying to manipulate Jack, I believe that Jack should do his honest best to save his life, because I feel it's wrong to kill anyone premeditatedly like Juliet suggest, no matter how bad they may be.

Yes, she was raised by them but she doesn't seem to like them or their beliefs much.Like or dislike them or ehr life with them wasn't my point. I meant she learned her value system from them and that has an effect on how she acts, even if she possibly wants to rebel and thwart their actions. She was raised to think as an Other. Trusting her is trusting someone who was raised with Ben’s belief system/actions held up as an example of what is good. Perhaps she has decided differently but we can’t know that until we see more of her.
I don't understand why Juliet wants Jack to kill Ben. If Ben has a tumor on his spine he will be paralyzed to some extent very soon. Eventually he could die.
If Juliet hates him due to his position or power over her his being paralyzed would take him out of power.
Juliet has nothing to gain by his murder since she can just wait for his dehabilation or death. This leads me to believe she is setting Jack up for a fall or she and Ben are submitting Jack to an experiment.
Trust neither of them.However Juliet may have a great deal to lose if she lets Jack carry out a successful operation on Ben. That would leave the staus quo intact under a revitalized Ben.


Trust no Other.:confused:

I haven't read all the posts here...but what if it's a trick and there's no tumor...The xrays are someone else (possibly not even on the island) I think both Juliet and Ben are conning Jack!

I too, think both Ben and Juliet are conning Jack. I vision a scene in which Jack is lead to a room in order to work on , who he believes to be Ben. since the person is cover completely, Jack can't tell who it is. Once Jack finish. Ben and Juliet walks in, than Jack realize that they were conning him, to see if he was one of the "Good one", in order for him to join their little group..


Goodwin led Ana to believe that they only want the good ones, therefore , this could be a test to see if Jack is good, or not. if he kill the person on the table, than he's not good, and will likely be killed, if he save the person on the table, than he can join their group.

I do not think there is any way the Others can be trusted - I mean, their leader is Benry, that spells it out for me right there.
I think they are all hiding something very crucial and until (if?) we find out what that is, don't trust a single one of them!

Ben is a master manipulator...that much we have already learned. That is the truth...Jack knows it and Ben knows Jack knows it. not sure that makes him any more trustworthy.

Juliet......something about her that I don't understand yet...but similar to a lot of others here.....she gives me the creeps.

The xrays are someone else (possibly not even on the island) I think both Juliet and Ben are conning Jack!

No, the tumor is very real. It's Ben's, and it is real. You know this because he went up to Juliet himself and said "Why'd you show him my x-rays?"

There was no one around them for him to act that way or stage it.

Unless, he's scamming Juliet...maybe he knows she wants him dead?? And the tumor is a fake and he's letting her think he has it.

No, the tumor is very real. It's Ben's, and it is real. You know this because he went up to Juliet himself and said "Why'd you show him my x-rays?"

"My x-ray", can mean that he had a picture of an X-ray, it doesn't mean it's actually him in the x-ray. If the island cure Locke, and Rose, than why haven't Ben been cured?...or maybe the x-ray was taken "before" he came to the island? also, was Jack in the background, when he said that to Juliet? because he might have said it for Jack's beneifit. Either way I do not trust them. Did anyone notice the parallel between Eko, and Ben.

Eko- stole food, so him and his brother can eat, he killed a guy so his brother didn't have to, he became a drug Lord, he killed a group of men, to protect his brothers church, he killed a lot of people, and than jusify his action because he believe they were for a noble cause.

The Other/Ben- killed Scott/steve ( I can't remember which one) kidnapped Claire, hung charlie, kidnapped Walt, left Sawyer, Michael, and Jin to die, killed Nathan, had Micheal kill Ana, and Libby, and Kidnapped Jack, Sawyer and Kate, and still believe that they are the good guys.

Sometime good people , do bad things, for good reasons...yet, it still do not make them right, they only" think" that they are right. :hypocrit:

Besides if the tumor was that severe -even though Juliet is a Fertility doctor, she HAS to know how an aggressive tumor looks like on X rays- why taking so much time in getting Jack and more, why would Ben be upset because Juliet showed the x rays to Jack? The sooner Jack operates him the better. Wait more to "break" Jack when that may happen too late is too dangerous an option....

Besides if the tumor was that severe -even though Juliet is a Fertility doctor, she HAS to know how an aggressive tumor looks like on X rays- why taking so much time in getting Jack and more, why would Ben be upset because Juliet showed the x rays to Jack? The sooner Jack operates him the better. Wait more to "break" Jack when that may happen too late is too dangerous an option....

Exactly! why wait? why play games, when you know you do not have a lot of time? why would Julliet want Jack to kill him, when she know that if the tumor is not remove, he will be cripple, or possible even die? It's not adding up.

was Jack in the background, when he said that to Juliet?

Ben tells Jack to stay where he is, and leaves Jack with a couple men with torches on a slight hill(?) away from the shore.

Ben says some things about Colleen, pushes out her casket/boat thing and then goes over to Juliet and says "Why did you show him my x-rays?" Juliet says that she didn't tell him they were Ben's, but "I guess you did." Then it switches to Jack kind of looking out at them (maybe?) but he's too far away to hear anything.

why would Julliet want Jack to kill him, when she knows that if the tumor is not removed, he will be a cripple, or possible even die? It's not adding up. Why ask Jack to kill Ben? Because she is afraid a successful operation will let Ben retain power. So she is trying to either prevent Jack from doing the operation or kill Ben if he does operate.

But she could have told Jack, through the paper messages, that he just has to refuse to operate until the tumor does the work by itself. However, she's choosing the murder option, knowing is likely that Jack won't comply, -she's got a whole file on himdoesn't she?-. Weird.

But she could have told Jack, through the paper messages, that he just has to refuse to operate until the tumor does the work by itself. However, she's choosing the murder option, knowing is likely that Jack won't comply, -she's got a whole file on himdoesn't she?-. Weird.Refuse to operate? isn't that another form of murder if Jack is the only one there who has the skills to operate but refuses to do so? Anyway Ben has Kate and James hostage to blackmail Jack into operating. Juliet may not be able to prevent that, but she can attempt to sabotage the operation through influencing Jack. She has to work within the constraints of being below Ben in the power structure and can not prevent Ben from insisting on the operation.

Indeed, it is but from the preview it seems tht Jack would better take that option rather than the 'active' killing

Juliet seems like a sly one. She is not to be trusted. None of them are. But Jack should trust them, hopefully he'll trust them too much, so that it leads to his demise and death!

...i have felt all along that jack is just going through the motions with juliette and ben...playing their game, so to speak...i don't think he trusts either of them...and may just hold the cards on this one, he has what they need...
skybluelost:-)