....or have the writers changed their mind/forgotten about that now? :confused:

He did say that but I think it was all part of Ben's mind games on Locke. If they really wanted Locke, he would've been on the list.

Yeah, I also remember him saying this. I do too think that it was all just part of the plan to get Locke onto his side.

Well, Locke will eventually get to a rescue attempt...
This may be part of his plan on getting Locke.

I'm exicted to see what Locke thinkgs once he gets to the Others camp. Remember Henry helped Locke when the doors closed and the image appeared on the door.

I hope that if or when Locke gets to the others camp, they will realize that they should have focused on him instead of the one's they took. Locke needs to start being more of a bada$$. This meek Locke we've been watching-especially in season 2 is not cool.
I want the creepy, tough Locke from season one back.

Ben is a liar, He tricks and cons people. I think he wanted Locke to think he was special or something, because that would have been useful to him at the moment. Then things went downhill when he told Locke that he didn't press the button, that the numbers just went back to normal. That also was a lie. You really can't believe anything that comes out of his mouth.

Maybe he thoguht Locke was the spinal surgeon? Could anyone check and see if there was ever an incidence where Jack was revealed to be a doctor in front of Ben???
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Second thoughts on that last post. Jack did take the arrow out of Ben. So...........I'm gonna agree with LostLocke and say Ben was just trying to make Locke feel special.

I think he probably knew well in advance of being shot with an arrow that Jack was a doctor. Probably right after Ethan gave the Others a list, they did background research on all of them. That's probably when Ben made his discovery, and he was probably actually on the way over to get Jack.

agreed he was on his way to get jack and save his own life. They probably locke was easily convinced just like they already knew jack was the doctor

i think the dialgoue of this show could be anything and everything just to create confusions and hype. remember when ben said this? remember that cord in the ocean no one even cares about anymore? remember when it took kate weeks to tell them about the fake beard until it was convenient for the story once they were caught? remember that there are 40+ people hanging out on the beach who seem to have no problem ever leaving the beach to adventure on their own without the hierarchy of TV fools (kate, jack, locke, sawyer) there to guide them? i guess they need a hot TV contract in order to get away from tarps, dharma food and acting like theyre doing something.

Ben lied to John to gain his trust so he wouldnt push the button anymore

Yes, that might be true and there seems to be overwhelming evidence of it, but something just doesn't seem right. I have a feeling the writers are setting up something later on to pull the cloth off the table and surprise us all. Just a feeling though. Locke isn't the only one who wishes he was important.

Ben lied to John to gain his trust so he wouldnt push the button anymore
We dont know why he wanted the button to stop being pushed though. He certainly looked pissed when the effects of it happened, so i dont know why he wanted it to happen. But it should be interesting when locke meets ben again. And finds out his real name. I can see locke letting ben live, and welcoming him to their camp. Like when desmond and locke met again. It'd go like:
Ben: Hello again john.
Locke: hello yourself, henry. (because he doesn't know his name, or it'd be a jokingly.)
I'd love for that to happen though!

I think Ben was just lying to Locke. Sorry to say, but Locke is very easily to manipulate, and I think Ben picked up on that fact rather quickly. I recall when he realized there was tension between Jack and Locke and Ben began pushing John's buttons. Remember the scene when Locke left the armory and threw all the dishes off the table in anger because Ben inferred that Jack was the "genius."

Then later on Ben also told Locke that he never pushed the button. He just let it count down to 0 and it reset itself. This completely messed with Locke's mind and his faith, and he ended up pounding on Ben's "cell" door demanding to know if, in fact, he never pushed the button - and all you saw behind that door was a smiling, manipulative Ben.

I love the character of John Locke, but the truth is that he's easy to manipulate. Sawyer did it to him, Ben did it to him (twice), and the island has done it to him quite a bit too. I don't think Ben ever really came for Locke, but then again, Lost does tend to throw a few twists into the storytelling, so you never know.

"Easily coerced."

As most of the people here said, i too believe that Ben was manipulating John. But if Ben actually knew what the button was for then why would he want them to stop pushing it. It would put their island and themselves in danger (as it seems). So why would he want that?

Not knowing seems even stranger since the Others have prooved to know almost everything that happens in the island. Yes, they could have a monitoring station like the one in Alcatraz that monitors all the other hatches and see what's going on in there. But if that is the case, they would surely have seen Desmond and everybody else before him and know everything about the purpose of the hatch and the button. And even if they didn't monitor them (it seems unlikely they did, at least to me), they must know if they are descedants or actual Dharma Initiative people. But they seem so ignorant about the day the sky turned purple and the loss of communication with the outside world etc. Maybe they didn't know about the failsafe and all?:huh:

To sum it all up, if Ben knows he sure ain't sharing with the others and was desperate to get John's sympathy and trust (so the losties won't kill him) so he said that the button was nothing. On the other hand if he doesn't know what it was maybe he just did what Locke told him to gain his sympathy and trust and then manipulated him like he always does. But how could he not know if he was in the island for so long and possibly related to Dharma initiative.

Of course i could be wrong and actually the black smoke set it all up:grin: What do you think?

....or have the writers changed their mind/forgotten about that now? :confused:


I think TPTB have demonstrated over and over that they only have a general idea of how some plotlines evolve. Most of it they are making up (poorly) as they go. Much of what they're making up defies what they've developed previously. They tend to forget some plotlines, drop others, and try to crowbar things into the story that don't fit or don't make sense.

Anyone remember Adam and Eve in season one? How about the black and white stones or the radio tower?

Lost has become a huge mess.

I think TPTB have demonstrated over and over that they only have a general idea of how some plotlines evolve. Most of it they are making up (poorly) as they go. Much of what they're making up defies what they've developed previously. They tend to forget some plotlines, drop others, and try to crowbar things into the story that don't fit or don't make sense.

Anyone remember Adam and Eve in season one? How about the black and white stones or the radio tower?

Did I miss something? Has the show ended without these plotlines being resolved? ;)

I also think that Ben was just manipulating Locke. However, it's entirely possible that he was actually telling the truth and that this will be revisited later on. One thing I do know, though, is that I REALLY want to see Ben and Locke come face to face again.

I think he probably knew well in advance of being shot with an arrow that Jack was a doctor. Probably right after Ethan gave the Others a list, they did background research on all of them. That's probably when Ben made his discovery, and he was probably actually on the way over to get Jack.
But if it was Desmond who (unintentionally) brought down the plane, then how could they have predicted it and known who was on 815?

As most of the people here said, i too believe that Ben was manipulating John. But if Ben actually knew what the button was for then why would he want them to stop pushing it. It would put their island and themselves in danger (as it seems). So why would he want that?

?

Lets remember one thing here.

Ben was only supposed to be on the show for a few episodes and was signed on for more because of his strong performances.

What Colin72 said above has some truth to it. You cannot assume or even remotely treat a TV series like a book--as if the ending and all that is inbetween is already there just waiting for you to turn the page and reveal it.

It is a grossly fluid and imperfect medium where much will never be explained and what was intended in many instances will be abandoned as new ideas arise

This, among all shows on TV at this moment, has constructed a matrix that, in the end, will never satisfy all it has presented. You'll enjoy it more if you always keep that in mind---the writers have said as much.

If you look at a show like Heroes--it too is a mystery unfolding but the concentration is based on the moment and its clues are not displayed to make you study screen captures or analyize audio. From what I have read of Lost writers they understand the slope they may be slipping down and are trying to maintain a tighter focus. They do realize they themselves are responsible for people hanging on to every word the characters say as having profound meaning..but not every word does have profound meaning and what Ben said about Locke probably shouldnt be thought about anymore than Hurley saying Whoa:biggrin:

as everyone else here has already said, its completely obvious that henry was conning locke when he said he came for him. he came for jack.

now why henry wanted to trick locke is up for debate.
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How about the black and white stones or the radio tower?

Lost has become a huge mess.

how has anyone forgotten about the black and white stones???? its been a major theme in every season.

now why henry wanted to trick locke is up for debate.


Well I assumed that it was to cover his tracks after attacking Ana.

Just before Ben told Locke, that he had come for him, Ben had attacked Ana and attempted to kill her. Of course Locke should and (probably would) of told the rest of the Losties about this.

Ahh, but then Ben plays his trump card, appealing to Locke's want of being 'special' or 'important'. Locke obviously not wanting Jack or Sayid to attack Ben, who could hold the reason for why Locke has been brought to this island, afterall in his eyes they all have a reason. Therefore Locke lies about Ben attacking Ana to Jack.

John gets more time to find out exactly why Ben has come for him. Ben gets to cover his tracks, and avoid an ***-kicking or worse from Jack.

Everyone's happy, except Ana and Libby who get shot. :rolleyes:

Well I assumed that it was to cover his tracks after attacking Ana.

Just before Ben told Locke, that he had come for him, Ben had attacked Ana and attempted to kill her. Of course Locke should and (probably would) of told the rest of the Losties about this.

Ahh, but then Ben plays his trump card, appealing to Locke's want of being 'special' or 'important'. Locke obviously not wanting Jack or Sayid to attack Ben, who could hold the reason for why Locke has been brought to this island, afterall in his eyes they all have a reason. Therefore Locke lies about Ben attacking Ana to Jack.

John gets more time to find out exactly why Ben has come for him. Ben gets to cover his tracks, and avoid an ***-kicking or worse from Jack.

Good point. That makes a lot of sense.

Everyone's happy, except Ana and Libby who get shot. :rolleyes:

Which is Michael's fault. Not Ben's or Locke's.

But if it was Desmond who (unintentionally) brought down the plane, then how could they have predicted it and known who was on 815?

Because a majority of the passengers on Flight 815 had been profiled by The Hanso Foundation ahead of time, and The Others probably contacted their off-island Hanso counterparts to get information about who was on the manifest (and then it was up to them -- via Ethan and Goodwin -- to figure out which passengers from the manifest actually survived).

Hanso has probably been profiling thousands upon thousands of potential subjects for years now, and those subjects have been manipulated onto countless flights over the Pacific....Flight 815 on September 22, 2004 just ended up being the one that was closest to the island's airspace when the button wasn't pushed.