Didn't like the ep? Tell us why. :biggrin:






This thread is for those that did NOT like the episode. If you liked the ep please visit the "Loved it!!!" thread. If you want to debate the episode (likes and dislikes), then please take your comments to the "Rate This Episode" thread or start your own topic. Any off topic posts will be deleted and possibly warned or given infraction points.

wasnt a huge fan. there wasnt much in the way of character development. thought it would reveal more then it actually did. so maybe they're just setting up for another episode. guess i'll have to wait and see.

I didn't hate it, but I didn't love it. It was okay, with a couple of scenes I really liked, but overall not a favourite. I'm looking more forward to next week's ep.

This one I'm going to forget easily. I was hoping all the boring Flashback stuff was building to something but it just went nowhere.

They end last week with a killer cliffhanger but there's nothing about it this episode. Continuity, please. :mad: Hopefully this is the end of fragmented storytelling.

Didn't they say they were getting back to the ensemble/beach after the mini-season? 3 episodes so far and two had only Jack/Kate/Sawyer in them.

told us lots of what we already know. jack got his tattoo in thailand. we still don't know why. but we have yet another mysterious 'special' character introduced and her actions and her brother's were not clear. the significance of the tattoo was not explained. why jack even wanted to be branded was not explained. how did this guy who was so 'faithless' before the hatch, want to believe this slutty woman and want to get tattood?

why didn't Cindy elaborate? Cuz Jack got upset? Did you expect him to be calm? Why on earth would Sawyer let Karl go? That made no sense. and navigating the island on that boat actually makes a lot of sense, since they left the next day they had plenty of daylight and could've collected water. rather than walking through the jungle to find camp.


everything was backwards. compare season 1 to now...the flashbacks then enhanced the story and expanded the character. Now you are watching flashbacks and checking your watch waiting for them to get back to the important stuff because you know the fb's aren't going anywhere.

I think one of the reasons ep 7 was so well received was because we learned something about the character and her history in a flashback for the first time in a long time. Tonight was among the worst this show has ever done IMO.

wow, i totally agree

Yeah I have to say the FB was poorly handled and Cindy's introduction, while initially surprising didn't go anywhere, why did Jack have to start screaming at her, doesn't he want to know any sort of information? For a man of science he had curiosity of info gathering skills at the moment.

The answer to three of the biggest mysteries?

Did anyone catch them?

Ikonn really said it all.

not impressed at all....just another filler episode....they could have at least showed some of juliets trial....heres hoping next week lives up to the hype.

a Juliet trial episode would have been awesome. With this stuff as the B-plot and leave Sawyer/Kate/Karl out entirely.



The crappy thing is, many people LOVE to hate on this show. I'm watching it my second time through and i'm TRYING to find a level to enjoy this episode on. And I just can't. How can the brains behind so many amazing moments in tv over the past 2-3 years come up with this??? HUGE let down.
100%
The answer to three of the biggest mysteries?

Did anyone catch them?

Ikonn really said it all.


if I had to guess.

1. what happened with the tail section people and cindy?
answer: they are 'watching' .... that's it. just watching. don't know what that means. but they are not dead, as if any of the viewing audience actually thought that.

2. what do these others do?
answer: projects. 'like the nabbing the kid from the raft experiment' as sawyer said. again no mention as to why. that's not important. one word answers for the win!

3. what's going on with juliet?
answer: she may be killed. unless our heroes can snap into action.


then again as i was typing this, Alex was answering 3 questions from jack. but none seemed overly important. Maybe those were the questions.

a Juliet trial episode would have been awesome. With this stuff as the B-plot and leave Sawyer/Kate/Karl out entirely.



The crappy thing is, many people LOVE to hate on this show. I'm watching it my second time through and i'm TRYING to find a level to enjoy this episode on. And I just can't. How can the brains behind so many amazing moments in tv over the past 2-3 years come up with this??? HUGE let down.
100%



if I had to guess.

1. what happened with the tail section people and cindy?
answer: they are 'watching' .... that's it. just watching. don't know what that means. but they are not dead, as if any of the viewing audience actually thought that.

2. what do these others do?
answer: projects. 'like the nabbing the kid from the raft experiment' as sawyer said. again no mention as to why. that's not important. one word answers for the win!

3. what's going on with juliet?
answer: she may be killed. unless our heroes can snap into action.


then again as i was typing this, Alex was answering 3 questions from jack. but none seemed overly important. Maybe those were the questions.










i think the were sent to watch juliets trial...to see how they deal with disobedience

worst episode ever, suicide level boredom , NOTHING happened, jacks flashback was dull and really didnt make sense, i will never watch this episode again

I should have known that after 2 good episodes that this one was going to suck. Poor writing, crappy flashbacks and there were no answers to "the 3 biggest questions" that they promised. I haven't been this mad since crappy episode 6. Not surprised though.

I was so psyched for tonight..... But in the end it was blah. Hoping next week will be uber!

I'm pretty forgiving, but to quote Simon Cowel, "that was absolutely dreadful." The story was slow, the flashbacks didn't add anything to the story, and overall the episode was just flat and boring.

god was that boring. After two really great episodes and the previews from last week, that episode flat out sucked. Where were the 3 answers? And talk about a pointless, directionless flashback.

wasnt terriable, writing was very bad, had some moments, i usually like jack backs, but i think without John Terry it suffered. mainly pissed off at the markiting for saying 3 answers. 3 answers my @$$!!!

putrid episode, if this was the first episode they showed, lost would have been cancelled

I definately think it was the worst episode so far, through all the seasons. It was just boring. And I was so looking forward to three questions being answered. I'm so disappointed.

It's hard enough now that it's on at 10:00 EST, and I work in education (EARLY mornings for me). I won't DVR, as I've been a rabid fan for too long . . . this was indeed filler - all they have to do to please me is advance the plot a bit each week, and give me something to chew on. This week, I'm chewing on my own cud, because it indeed tastes like regurgitated dinner. Blech.

Answers to three of Lost's biggest mysteries huh? They must have been easter eggs during the commercials because I missed them.


Once again our gang of little geniuses fail to ask the most basic questions of those who may be able to answer. I keep forgetting these people are in a life and death situation stranded on a bizarre island in the middle of nowhere. Apparently, so do they. By not asking (even if people evade or don't answer), they appear stupid and not concerned about their situation.


Basic, common sense questions they don't ask:
Where are we?
Is it possible to leave this island? If so, how?
What's going on with _____ (enter any number of the bizarre island occurances)?
Who are you people?
What are you people doing here?


Kate and Sawyer fail to ask Carl.
Jack fails to ask Cindy.
Jack fails to ask slingshot pro Alex.
Jack fails to ask Juliet.



Jack says he's going to help Juliet leave but doesn't bother asking any relevant questions.

Sawyer and Kate have Carl who could be a wealth of information but not only fail to question him, Sawyer lets him leave. Sayer can give carl love advice but not ask a relevant question.

Slingshot pro Alex and Jack talk and answer each others questions but does Jack ask any of the previously mentioned questions? No, he just asks about Juliet.

Does Jack ask Cindy how she survived the crash? Nope.

Does Jack ask Juliet what the mark is that they gave her? Nope. He just sensitively touches her stomach, applies aloe and makes the boo boo better.


I also thought the scene where Jack agressively badgers Achira to tattoo him made no sense.

I wasn't looking forward to this one to begin with because I'm so done with Jackbacks and I had a feeling we wouldn't see any beach. I guess I can say I wasn't disappointed because my expectations were so low. The flashbacks were so thin and cryptic as to be meaningless. So Jack and Juliet are both "marked" with signd indicating "who they are". That's all I got out of that.

We still don't know the meaning behind the tattoos because Jack so much as says, that's what it says it's not what it means. Great, thanks for that Jack. Just when I thought they were giving us one stinking answer you have to take that away.

Then I was disappointed with the montage at the end. I don't care enough about the Alex and Karl love story yet, I was hoping Kate and Sawyer would be returning to the beach at the end. Let down there.

It seems more and more that Ben's promise of "home" and "off the island" clearly mean back to Otherville. Sorry Jack, you didn't say which island and whose home. *sigh*

Ripoff.

The ending of this episode was incredibly cheesy, which is something Lost has NEVER been until now. Karl and Alex looking at the stars, Jack and Juliet smiling at each other, and the music made me want to barf =P

I also agree this had the worst flashback ever, which isn't a surprise considering it's Jack's SEVENTH one!! this better have been his last one or else they are really beating a dead horse (his tattoos mean he's a "reluctant leader"? as if we didn't know that already...)

this is not what lost needed after a decline in the ratings... oh well, you win some and you lose some. the first 2 were so good it couldn't have lasted forever.

The flashback really added nothing to the story. The men beat up jack for what reason? don't know. The chick couldn't give him the tatoo because she took a blood oath to only tatoo asian men? dont' know. Flying a KITE boring as crap, Jack making out with a hot chick. eh who cares. The juliet story was ok. The kate and sawyer scenes were a bit lame also. Overall this episode was pretty lame. O well. This is the one jack flashback I actually didn't like. Normally they are KIK AZZ. This one sucked. ty

I wasn't looking forward to this one to begin with because I'm so done with Jackbacks and I had a feeling we wouldn't see any beach. I guess I can say I wasn't disappointed because my expectations were so low. The flashbacks were so thin and cryptic as to be meaningless. So Jack and Juliet are both "marked" with signd indicating "who they are". That's all I got out of that.

We still don't know the meaning behind the tattoos because Jack so much as says, that's what it says it's not what it means. Great, thanks for that Jack. Just when I thought they were giving us one stinking answer you have to take that away.

Then I was disappointed with the montage at the end. I don't care enough about the Alex and Karl love story yet, I was hoping Kate and Sawyer would be returning to the beach at the end. Let down there.

It seems more and more that Ben's promise of "home" and "off the island" clearly mean back to Otherville. Sorry Jack, you didn't say which island and whose home. *sigh*

Ripoff.
:shesaid:

Whoa, never thought I would find myself in here!

Anyway, I'm just going to let this emoticon describe how I felt about this episode.:undecide:

A bit of a wasted opportunity, I'm just glad that Kate and Sawyer are making there way back home to the survivors. (And oh yeah, the cinematography was great as always!)

Here's to a better next week.

I know that the Losties never ask the Others any questions whose answers might be helpful to them, but when Sawyer was having the Dear Abby talk with Karl, you'd at least think he'dask him why Ben is so opposed to him and Alex being together, to the extent that he'd have him killed.

I had hopes when I didn't come here for the past two episodes, but his one was pretty useless. I did like the Jack-Ben scene, with Ben critiquing Jack's bedside manner.

Cardie

OK, I guess I'll start with the obvious: They didn't answer three mysteries (no surprise there). If you'd like to see my take on that issue, see this thread (http://www.thefuselage.com/Threaded/showthread.php?t=70219). There's no way I'm re-typing all of that here. Needless to say, that promise was as false as "There's no Time Travel. Honest."

Next up: New nominee for the worst flashback ever. The current title holder is a three-way (four way?) tie for all of Kate's flashbacks. But at least in Kate's flashbacks, people acted moderately rationally and like human beings not on acid. In this flashback, we have this mysterious, soulful, tattoo arti...er, sorry, person marker, see-er of people's true identities (aaahahahaha), and apparently a bunch of Xenophobes who decide to beat up Jack for no reasonably plausible reason. I... I can't even think of anything else to say about this flashback, because it made zero sense. None. None, none, none. Complete and utter garbage.

And we were robbed of what could have been one of the most interesting scenes in the entire series - the 'trial'. For pete's sake, writers, SHOW us this stuff! This is the interesting stuff! Don't show me Sawyer having a heart to heart with a 4th tier character we know nothing about and don't care about!

I can't go on. I just.. I'm beyond words. Is anyone home?

Add me to the didn't love it crowd... I'm not ready to blame them for the !3 questions answered! thing because the ABC promos have been notoriously bad for a long time, and I don't think the creative team has anything to do with them.

This episode just leaves us with nothing to really discuss. The last 2 were great, this one... not so much.

If only Achara had at least seen something totally shocking when she sized Jack up. You know, something like, "Your father found you abandoned at his hospital and no one knows where you came from." I don't think either we or Jack needed to be told that he's a natural leader but that makes him lonely, frightened and angry. We've had six previous flashbacks plus 2.5 seasons of the show to have that point hammered home.

Cardie

Pure filler, last weeks ep was very good but this was 40 minutes of nothingness. I cannot even remember what the 3 questions answered were. Thats how insignificant they were.

One of the worst 5 eps ever.

I love Jack, but this episode felt really pointless. And I'm not one who is always looking for big, spectacular answers about the mythology, but it would be nice to have answers to questions like "What is the context for this scene?" I don't even know why Jack was in Phuket. I'm guessing it was after his marriage broke up, but from the episode itself I don't know what he was doing there, or when he was there, or his frame of mind. Character development episodes are great, but I don't feel like I learned anything about Jack. If any episode could labeled "FILLER", it would be this one.

It kinda seems like TPTB have gotten so used to keeping information back and trying to be mysterious that they're having some trouble with basic storytelling. :undecide:

LOST's biggest enemies are Elizabeth Sarnoff and Christina Kim. I don't think they've written a good episode between them. Whenever I see their names I am instantly skeptical, and tonight is why. Bad character interaction (the scene where Jack DEMANDED the tattoo was ridiculous), and weak story development.

This was more of a filler episode, officially closing the second island story and the season's initial arc, so there wasn't a ton of content, but it still could have been an hour of riveting television if written well.

Really, we didn't learn a ton over the last two weeks but each episode was masterfully written and directed. Barclay's direction tonight seemed pretty cool, but the writing just fell flat. Very, very flat.

I did not like this episode. I probably would have been ok with it if ABC hadn't made it sound like something BIG would happen. All that build up and nothing happened.

So we know what Jack's tattoo means. I never cared to begin with and I never considered it to be imperative to... anything. If the purpose of revealing the tattoo's meaning was just to further explain Jack, that's fine. But don't tout it as a big mystery when it is not.

We also know that Cindy and the kids are still alive, along with a bunch of other people who were taken. But why were they taken? "To have a better life." Sorry, but as far as Big Huge Answers go that just doesn't fly with me. Where have they been, what have they been doing, why were they taken but not everyone else ("Because they're good" doesn't cut it either), and what were they there to watch?

Bah.

I love Jack, but this episode felt really pointless. And I'm not one who is always looking for big, spectacular answers about the mythology, but it would be nice to have answers to questions like "What is the context for this scene?" I don't even know why Jack was in Phuket. I'm guessing it was after his marriage broke up, but from the episode itself I don't know what he was doing there, or when he was there, or his frame of mind. Character development episodes are great, but I don't feel like I learned anything about Jack. If any episode could labeled "FILLER", it would be this one.

It kinda seems like TPTB have gotten so used to keeping information back and trying to be mysterious that they're having some trouble with basic storytelling. :undecide:

:shesaid: That's exactly it jelly. I feel sorry for anyone watching this whose not an uberfan. Unless you've watched every Jackback six times and know his backstory back to front, you would have NO CLUE what he was doing in Thailand and why. It was almost difficult to tell it was Thailand the reference went by so fast. There was no context at all not only to why Jack was there of all places but the whole "mystery" surrounding Achara was without reason. So she "sees" people? Big deal. Essentially she's a good judge of character. For that she gets paid the big money?

I feel like there was some cultural backstory to this whole tattoo thing that the writers forgot to make us privy to. But we needed that information or it was all just nonsense.

This definitely goes in the bottom 2 episodes in my opinion. I don't know if it worse that "Fire + Water", but it is close. Jack's motives in the flashback seemed nonsensical and random, Bai LIng can't act her way out of a paper bag, and Alex is really starting to annoy me. Even Sawyer's nicknames were kinda annoying tonight.

Sooo...Jack has Cindy in front of him...has a shot at finding out something about these crazy people...and screams at her to get away?? Are you kidding me?

We find out what the tats say...but not what they mean?? I smell another flashback...maybe Jack will seek help making a paper hat this time instead of a kite.

Sawyer giving goo goo advice to a kid crying on a log? But not telling Bobby to spill the beans about Other Town??

The apparent re-birth of the love triangle?

Jack manhandleing a twig of a woman to get a tatoo?? Huh? Only to be told what we have learned in all seven of Jack's FBs to this point??

How many questions were answered and how many more created after tonight?

I love this show but this was a headscratcher for sure...

This is only the 2nd episode that was only "eh" to me in LOST history. :undecide: It was just kinda "there," for a lack of better words.

Jack manhandleing a twig of a woman to get a tatoo?? Huh? Only to be told what we have learned in all seven of Jack's FBs to this point??


No kidding. I HATED this scene. It was so uncharacteristic of Jack. Sure, he's got a temper. But the scene was handled in a very violent manner...

Wow.

THAT was anti climatic.

Three of the biggest mysteries? What a letdown. Try a boring answer to a mystery no one cares about. We didn't even get a full fledged answer, either. ("Yes, that's what it says, but it's not what it means." Well, great. :rolleyes:)

Not that what the tattoo said was fairly exciting or interesting. I can't even remember what it was supposed to say, an hour after the episode aired.

Filler, filler, filler. Not to mention, people seemed to acting completely irrationally. Why did Jack get beaten up by the men because of his tattoo? So he got a freaking tattoo; why did they even care? Will it even be explained? Probably not. :rolleyes: I completely missed the reason why she couldn't give him a tattoo in the first place. It could've been because I was busy fuming due to lack of answers, though most likey, it wasn't explained. Sigh.

And wow. The "mind-blowing conclusion" the "person reader" came to about Jack was...everything but mind-blowing. We already knew everything she said since about season one. (You are a great leader, but are lonely? Well, DUH he's lonely. He just got a divorce. He flew half-way across the world for that?! Pffft, what a ripoff.)

Of course, acting completely irrationally, Jack resorts to his old habit of yelling his head off, and forcing her to give him a tattoo...The entire thing seemed bizzare.

Back to the island, the castaways were given several oppurtunities to ask questions about, ya know...everything. When Cindy came, Jack hardly took his time asking questions. Instead, he YELLS AGAIN, and forcing Cindy to leave.

Sawyer gets no answers from Karl. He lets him free, to find Alex.

Do they just not care anymore?

Wow, the next episode better be incredible, because this one just sucked.

And apparently there's no shortage of large, sea-going vessels on this island, or gasoline to power them:

screenshot (http://home.comcast.net/~therealvertical/TheBoat_copy.jpg)

I wondered about that too...that looks much larger than the boat they were on during the end montage...and why was it so far out? Why were they not at the Pala Ferry?? That made no sense to load Ben onto a surfboard and paddle out there.

No kidding. I HATED this scene. It was so uncharacteristic of Jack. Sure, he's got a temper. But the scene was handled in a very violent manner...

Of course we're getting to know Jack better and learning that he's a tad unstable when he's not in control so I wouldn't say this was out of character necessarily, just that there was no buildup. There seemed no reason for his behaviour at that time. In the scenes leading up to it, he's happy and smiling. Then out of nowhere he's got her against a wall and is demanding a tattoo. If we would have seen scenes of him slowly cracking up, drinking, punishing himself, I could buy it because the truth was Jack was at a low point in his life. But that wasn't what we saw. Flying kites?? Picking up pretty girls?? It looked like he was on a Club Med vacation. The change was too abrupt.

Wow...almost three hours since air time out east...and barely three pages of threads?? Wow...

Anyone else thinking that was Desmond's yacht out in the horizon?

Des' boat was a sailboat, this was definitely a motor boat. Des' boat looked to be around 30 feet, at most... the boat on the horizon was at least 40 feet.

The boat on the horizon looked something like this:

http://www.anglersfishingcenter.com/img/indian_charter_boat.jpg

The more I think about this episode, the more stupid it gets and makes less sense.


Why did the Others send Ethan "their best surgeon" to spy on the Castaways on the beach? Why would you give up your best surgeon?

Just another example of them making stuff up as they go and then trying to crowbar something in that makes no sense.

Aye, seems like more of a simple time issue.

At this point in LOST, I know most everything about the character personalities and most of what I see that 'doesn't fit' usually makes sense within some overlooking of the situation. I hated Locke during most of season 2, Kate since the start of season 2, and Jack during season 2. Not to mention I always hated Claire. After a bit of stepping back and analyzing, I can be more forgiving.
Locke was being 'played' by Ben and was being emotionally and faithfully torn apart. What I absolutely still hate, though, is his jackarsery towards his good friend Charlie. Also, I hate how Locke was making fun of Eko and Charlie when they said the island showed them something. I mean, what a hypocrite. Of course, this was all because he was depressed and pessimistic about what he 'thought' was a divine messenger, but he was totally out of character for half of season 2. They could've at least shown us some good ol' hunter Locke or friendly Locke, but all they really showed us was unfaithfull Locke, which was hard to endure.

Also, why is everyone so mean to Charlie? Claire is a freaking bench towards Charlie.
Charlie, there are other fish in the sea. Dump Claire until she learns how to treat a good, supportive friend correctly.

Kate still doesn't make sense 75% of the time - she seems to be a utility during many parts of the show's event-scenes due to obvious reasons.


Anywho, Carl's cool. I wanna see more of him. By the way, I liked Sawyer in tis episode - nice guy. Kinda illogical in his decision making in regards to letting Carl go, but he did it because he obviously felt for the kid and he didn't want any ties with 'the others' with them because it'd lead them back to them in one way or another (others come to find Carl, for example).

I didn't love it, but I'll never admit it. :) I still enjoy LOST overall.

what I didn't like was Jack's ability to pin to the wall a woman he had been sleeping with, over something as silly as a tattoo. Didn't seem believable to me. And although I know that many people love tats, love Jack, and love Jack's tats, I just didn't see the significance of Jack's whole flashback.
Still, I rarely post in this thread, because I'm willing to take the ride w/ Damon & Carlton, for however long they want to lead us astray. (I mean that in a good way, of course.) :)

Didn't love it? I didn't even like most of it, and about half of it was barely tollerable.

Sawyer is my favorite character and even he fell flat tonight.

Did anything in this episode make any sense? At all? To anyone?

Jack looked after Ben's infection and Juliet's apparent branding. Ok. That makes sense, but he's a doctor. That's what doctors do. They treat injuries. So even though it made sense, it didn't tell anything I didn't already know.

Jacket appears to be sailing a little smoother, and their scenes were sweet, but, but, but, I need to feel there's a point in order to enjoy a story, and piecing one together from a bunch of scenes that feel incomplete just doesn't come anywhere close to sating that need.

Quite possibly the worst episode I've seen.

LOST used to be a show that I would arrange my schedule around in order to watch. It was intriguing, moved at a solid pace, and had a lot of interconnected "a-ha" moments that made it the mega-hit it was.

Tonight's episode was boring. There, I said it. It was more of the same tired "Kate/Saywer go somewhere and have arguments while doing so" and "Let's have a backstory that only half develops the idea, so that we can revisit it later if we run out of ideas". Yawn...

I love the show. Really I do. But it needs to get back to some interesting revelations, not just filler so they can stretch out a 4 year show into a 6 year one.

Just my thoughts. Flame away =)

And although I know that many people love tats, love Jack, and love Jack's tats, I just didn't see the significance of Jack's whole flashback.

As one of those people, and someone who's been waiting to see the story behind Jack's tats since early on in Season One, it was kind of disappointing, I'm not going to lie.

They need to start having the entire ensemble in every episode pronto. When was the last time Sun and Jin were even seen? Like episode four or five or something crazy like that... :undecide: I'm still hopeful the season can be salvaged, but putting in two more Jack/Kate/Sawyer-only episodes after that was one of the huge complaints about the first six episodes was not a good idea (Though I suppose these two were filmed before the first six aired... but still...)

Of course we're getting to know Jack better and learning that he's a tad unstable when he's not in control so I wouldn't say this was out of character necessarily, just that there was no buildup. There seemed no reason for his behaviour at that time. In the scenes leading up to it, he's happy and smiling. Then out of nowhere he's got her against a wall and is demanding a tattoo. If we would have seen scenes of him slowly cracking up, drinking, punishing himself, I could buy it because the truth was Jack was at a low point in his life. But that wasn't what we saw. Flying kites?? Picking up pretty girls?? It looked like he was on a Club Med vacation. The change was too abrupt.


that's a good point, i forgot where Jack was supposed to be in his life because the episode didn't contextualize it for us.

I ultimately view lost as a tv show that will entertain me...so even the weakest episodes I can find something redeeming in. i don't know about this one. if this were one of my student's papers it would get an 'F' it was unfocused, barely organized, lacked a main idea, and didn't establish any sort of context. I imagine that looking at the script would reveal any number of typos and other editing problems.

What, ya'll didn't like the latest installment in Jack Vanity Theatre?

I am convinced it is contracted in Lost Law that there has to be a Jack episode every half dozen or so, whether it fits into the story or not.

So of course it was utter filler, of course it stopped the momenteum of last week'
s good ep in it's tracks. Of course it offered nothing new. It was just meeting the Jack quotient.

But it didn't have to be THIS bad. They used to be able to stop Lost dead in its tracks and do a required Jack ep and still give it some relation to something anyone cared about. Guess not this time. This seemed like one of those eps where they were actually lampooning the show and itself. Twice the room I was in erupted in laughter. Once when she said the tat or whatever means "LEADER". Well, of course! That's the point, Jack is a leader, even if he doesn't know it! Who'd have ever guessed?!?

The second time was the "starcrossed lover" moment. As the camera panned up to the stars, we all started cringing and saying , "Oh please, please don't . . ." and sure enough, they did and we just rolled. I guess that was one of those things that the writers thought would be so bad it would be good. Unfortunately, it was just bbbbaaaaaaaaddddd.

Guys, until they actually get back to the beach, and I mean to the beach with the whole ensemble, until they pare the stories down to a managable number and find a narrative flow for these stories, the hemoragging will continue. This one tonight was just downright embarrassing.

Wow. At this moment there are only 15 replies in the "Loved It" thread.

What, ya'll didn't like the latest installment in Jack Vanity Theatre?

I am convinced it is contracted in Lost Law that there has to be a Jack episode every half dozen or so, whether it fits into the story or not.

So of course it was utter filler, of course it stopped the momenteum of last week'
s good ep in it's tracks. Of course it offered nothing new. It was just meeting the Jack quotient.

:rotflmao2:

As I said in another thread, I'm waiting for us to get to the episode where the camera stays tight on Jack the entire time and we have to identify other characters by recognizing their voices.
100%
Wow. At this moment there are only 15 replies in the "Loved It" thread.

Which is fine. To each his own.

That episode was horrible to the point of being insulting. I don't know how they can offer this sort of crap up and expect people to keep tuning in. Utterly, utterly awful.

Nothing new learned, pointless and incomprehensible flashback, the same tired routine of Kate and Sawyer bickering and indications that the Love Triangle of Boredom is still not dead. And of course, the nothing near the island's biggest mysteries was revealed. I'm really at the end of my rope in hoping this show is going to recover, which is amazing since I loved Desmond's episode last week. I guess it was a fluke.

Maybe in Desmond's next time loop iteration he can warn ABC not to air it.

I love LOST, but I think this episode may cause more viewers to give up on the show. Jack had an affair with a tatoo lady? Please! This was by far the weakest flashback story ever. I saw nothing encouraging about LOST from this eppy. I really think Jack's backstory has run its course. Please, put that attention to other characters. I have to say it was very disappointing.

As I said in another thread, I'm waiting for us to get to the episode where the camera stays tight on Jack the entire time and we have to identify other characters by recognizing their voices.


:rotflmao2:

This episode was not enjoyable for me. It felt like filler. If we're going to get filler, why not at least give it to someone who hasn't had a gazillion flashbacks already?

everything was backwards. compare season 1 to now...the flashbacks then enhanced the story and expanded the character. Now you are watching flashbacks and checking your watch waiting for them to get back to the important stuff because you know the fb's aren't going anywhere.

Tonight was among the worst this show has ever done IMO.
I absolutely hate to say this but I agree with you COMPLETELY. This Jackback did NOTHING to expand on the good doctor's character. And there weren't any surprises. We pretty much got the gist of this epi's Jackback from the LOST moment . I just didn't feel like we learned much.


1. what happened with the tail section people and cindy?
2. what do these others do?
3. what's going on with juliet?

I guess I'll take a stab at trying to figure out the 3 HUGE mysteries that were answered tonight. :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Let's see ...... well:
1) We sorta found out what 1/2 of Jack's tattoos mean, but the dharma-esque triangle & number 5 were left unexplained (although we can figure out the 5 on our own),
2) We sorta found out what happened to the Tailies & the children. They're alive, seemingly well, and were taken to give them "a better life." Oooookaaaayyy.....
3) We sorta got confirmation that Alex is Ben's daughter (but most of us had figured that out anyway). Yet we still don't know whether or not he is her biological father or her adoptive father. It would be exciting to find out he was her biological father because that would have all KINDS of implications in the storyline, but .... oh well ..... :undecide:

wasnt terriable, writing was very bad, had some moments, i usually like jack backs, but i think without John Terry it suffered.
AHA!!! You totally NAILED it. :hammer: I wondered what was so wrong with this Jackback - it was the absence of John Terry! Wow, I didn't realize how indispensable he is to the Jackback epi's until tonight. :frown:

Does Jack ask Juliet what the mark is that they gave her? Nope. He just sensitively touches her stomach, applies aloe and makes the boo boo better.

Ugh, ugh, and double ugh!!! :sick: Jack's "sensual touching" of Juliet is such a big, fat, obnoxious and painfully obvious foreshadowing of a romantic relationship between the 2 of them that I rolled my eyes so far back I thought they were going to stick that way. :rolleye1:

Remember the days when Sawyer was that great bad guy you loved to hate? Now he is giving relationship advice like Dr. Phil.
I, too, am sick of "sensitive Sawyer." :pinch: I want good ol' bad boy Sawyer back! I'm not buying that this guy turned into a pile of mush in just a couple of months after performing a lifetime of hard-hearted malicious actions. :drowsy:

The ending of this episode was incredibly cheesy, which is something Lost has NEVER been until now. Karl and Alex looking at the stars, Jack and Juliet smiling at each other, and the music made me want to barf =P
Who else was CRINGING during the "love montage" and the sappiest, most melodramatic music playing in the background? It reminded me of a soap opera. Same with the kite-flying, even my teen daughter who is quite love sick and adores that sort of thing was bored out of her mind and rolling her eyes! :yucky:

- the 'trial'. For pete's sake, writers, SHOW us this stuff! This is the interesting stuff! Don't show me Sawyer having a heart to heart with a 4th tier character we know nothing about and don't care about!
No kidding!!! A trial would have been fantastic. We would have been GLUED to the set! Instead, we had to suffer through sensitive Sawyer giving love advice to a teenager deep in the throes of puppy love.

LOST's biggest enemies are Elizabeth Sarnoff and Christina Kim. I don't think they've written a good episode between them. Whenever I see their names I am instantly skeptical, and tonight is why. Bad character interaction and weak story development.
{Resounding applause from audience in full agreement!} :gora:
Why are these people writing LOST episodes at all? And for what reason did the script supervisor choose to approve this dreck? Maybe they have daddies in high places. :lipsseal:

I feel like there was some cultural backstory to this whole tattoo thing that the writers forgot to make us privy to. But we needed that information or it was all just nonsense.
Yes Yes Yes! I finished watching this epi thinking that somehow a very important, crucial scene accidentally got cut and was left on the editing room floor. This mangled epi actually makes me quite angry. There are so many people who despise Jackbacks because they bore them. I thought surely Thailand would be fantastic and mysterious!!! What a letdown.:frown:

Wow...almost three hours since air time out east...and barely three pages of threads?? Wow...
I noticed there was absolutely NO slowing of the board as per usual on a Wednesday night. Maybe the epi bored them into a stupor and they are still trapped in a catatonic state on their sofas? :down:

:Whoa, never thought I would find myself in here!
I felt the same. :(
You'd think he'd ask him why Ben is so opposed to him and Alex being together, to the extent that he'd have him killed.
I was hoping for that, too. Is it just because Ben doesn't want Karl for himself, or is there a deeper reason? What have Karl and Alex done together that makes Karl so dangerous to Ben or the Others?
And we were robbed of what could have been one of the most interesting scenes in the entire series - the 'trial'.
I think that would've been fascinating. I only wish we knew if it really WAS a trial, or just more head-games for Jack's sake.

If only Achara had at least seen something totally shocking when she sized Jack up.
... We've had six previous flashbacks plus 2.5 seasons of the show to have that point hammered home.
Amen to that!
Has he really had 7 FBs now? Unbelievable. yeah, I think we know enough about Jack for a while. It would've been cool if we'd at least seen another character from the Island crossing Jack's path in China/Thailand, wherever it was he was supposed to be.

They used to be able to stop Lost dead in its tracks and do a required Jack ep ...
LMAO!

ZoeWashburne, I was sorry to read that you were disappointed in the story of Jack's tattoos. Well, here's hoping the reason behind the big "5" will be more interesting. I'm guessing he got that later.

I miss the beach too, and can only hope we get back to our LOST friends there real soon. I rather post in the "Loved it!" thread. :(

I was feel just really let down by this episode.
Wow i mean wow.

I was disappointed with this episode as well, for many of the reasons already stated here, so I won't repeat them. If I had to say something positive, I would say that the Jack/Juliet scenes were not bad.

If I had to say something positive, I would say that the Jack/Juliet scenes were not bad.

And in the immortal words of the Scarlet Pimpernel ... "Nothing is quite so bad, as something, which is not so bad."

I gave this episode a 8.
So why am I posting here?

Well... 8 is my subjective rating. However... objective rating is around 4.

Although I enjoyed the episode.... this episode was... simply put: horribly written.

I don't like bashing the crew, but.... it's clear that the writer duo who done this episode is simply not capable of handling the show.

There were 3 critical scenes in the episode I almost laughed.

First, Sawyer letting Karl go. Using love as an excuse. I'm sorry but.... oh my god. I mean, even a polar bear taking Karl would've been better! This was... ridicilious. Sawyer totally forgot everything? THEY NEED ANSWERS! But no... just let him go. Or are they satisfied with the answer to the question'what happened to the kids?' -'They have a better life now!' - That sounded so cheesy, so laughable... almost as bad as a dialogue in a Heroes eppy.

Ok, scene #2. Jack forcing whatshername to do the tattoo. Not only it was completetly out of character ,but it was stupid. We were convinced in S2E1 that Jack is a MAN OF SCIENCE. So why does he care about a tattoo?!

Scene #3. Well, not a scene, but... the whole Isabell being the 'sheriff' thing was a bit... too much. Okay, the island is like a mini country. But still... do they have to pay taxes too?

And, the flashback was not only forced,but it was emberassing. For me. First half: Jack flying a kite, and sleeping with whatshername. Second half: Jack going nuts, forcing whatshername to tattoo him, and then getting beaten up. Eeeeek.

This episode had much more potential in it. Much more. :frown:

Time and time again, Jack finds himself in a postition to bargain. The others need something only he can supply. Why is it that he just doesn't seem interested in finding out "WHAT THE HELL IS GOING ON HERE!!" I'd ask that question first, I think

This episode opened doors and then closed them right away. It seems that everytime Carlton and Damon are not involved in the writing of the episode, the episode "really suckS" as some may say.

This Elizabeth Kim writer has been part of some pretty crappy episodes im noticing.

whatever, move on to the next one.

This Elizabeth Kim writer has been part of some pretty crappy episodes im noticing.

whatever, move on to the next one.

LOL there's two writers for this epi Elizabeth Sarnoff & Christina Kim , you've combined them into one person.

Sorry but this whole tattoo thing is really bugging me. So, let me get this straight...

Jack follows the girl, then our "man of science" finds out she has some nutty reason for doing tattoos and so he agressively DEMANDS ONE?! He decides to get a tattoo out of the blue from some nutjob? And not only that but she actually goes ahead and gives him the tattoo?

That makes absolutely no sense.

Unfortunately, I've found this to be common with Lost. TPTB seem to really not know what they're doing and so they come up with these lame, irrational scenarios to give an explanation for something they threw at us previously.

This kind of crap doesn't gave fans very much confidence in the reveals to come. Gee, I wonder why millions are giving up and not watching?

LOL there's two writers for this epi Elizabeth Sarnoff & Christina Kim , you've combined them into one person.


yeah well christina sarnoff and elizabeth kim have crappy episodes and crappy writing.

whatever their names are.

Truly a horrible episode. Ugh...what a disappointment after two good eps.

why bai ling? She absolutely sucks.

and are they going to deliver on the preview for the 2nd episode where it shows the losties attacking some building? That was a total ripoff.

If you believe the writing was bad, then it's the fault of Lindelof and Cuse.

They are in charge of the show and it's not as though the writers of a specific episode do anything without their approval. I'm sure even though they don't get a writing credit, they edit and work on each script. Also, storylines for an episode are broken down and assigned to writers who are told what to write about.

1) Why did they send their best surgeon -- Ethan -- into harm's way, instead of say, Danny?

2) Could Alex have used that boat at any time? Why do they give her so much free reign when she's so much of a loose cannon (i.e., knocking out cameras, etc.)?

3) Why were the people who were "observing" Jack acting like they were stoned? Do they revel in watching someone sleep and use the bathroom?

4) Why didn't Jack have a rational conversation with Cindy, to get answers, instead of screaming at her?

5) What were the three "answers"? I'm guessing: What Jack's tatoo meant, what happened to Juliet, and were Cindy & the kids still alive. Wake me up when they finally provide answers to REAL mysteries.

Oh for crying out loud. Guys, the flashbacks are draining the life out of this show!!!! Ok, Juliet's fb was great (the previous six, during the mini-series all were terrible). But you've plowed all the ground you can with Jack, and frankly most of the other survivors -- except for Locke's paralysis fb.

Be on notice: You're losing viewers faster than Bush lost support in the war on terror... And that is an incredible accomplishment.

Time and time again, Jack finds himself in a postition to bargain. The others need something only he can supply. Why is it that he just doesn't seem interested in finding out "WHAT THE HELL IS GOING ON HERE!!" I'd ask that question first, I think

Yes, that's what I kept thinking, too. It would look as though Jack was going to refuse to comply and I'd applaud (not literally), and then he'd give in anyway. I thought he'd refuse to answer at all when the "sherriff" started her questions, but instead, he tried to lie when they already knew the truth. I was surprised that he'd give any help to Ben at all, after they practically tortured Jack to get him to do the surgery.

Even the description for the show tonight said that "Jack has bargaining power", but the only thing he used it for was to free Juliet?
Someone whom he KNOWS he can't trust, has been caught lying???

...*sigh* I just don't know. I'm going to another thread for a while--this one is depressing me. :sad:

May I have another Jack flashback, quickly please!

That well will never run dry!

Solid gold hits every time. I tell ya, Solid Gold!

The above is my Official Fuselage standard boilerplate pat response to this show.

In reality, I'd score this show a big Zero. ABC hyped all week that THREE BIG Lost Questions would be answered. I didn't notice any big answers this week.

I realize that the kid with Kate and Sawyer could not stay around, because dramatically he could spill too many beans. But why was he with them in the first place? What little key information the Kyle did impart could have been mentioned as a casual aside by almost any of the "so called others". (Kyle did help with by being in the "backwards talking scene" a couple of weeks ago, but that trick was leftover from way back when, and wasn't very origional when Twin Peaks did it.)

Stick with the time travel theme. You don't have it correct yet, but you are getting close.

Note to the Producerss: Have ABC tone down the HYPE a little. Yes, even during sweeps. Keep it real. OK?

OK, I just got done watching it on DVR and I am blown away by what an absolute travesty this episode was. I can honestly say this was by far the worst episode to date. There is no point in going over how bad this was because it will take pages to write and frankly if the writers and producers dont get it by now they never will.

What I can not figure out for the life of me is why once the show starts to gain some momentum after two great episodes, do they revert back to the old habits that began to kill the ratings and alienate fans. Why in pluperfect hell do you hype up 3 big mysteries and not deliver on any front. Jacks tattoes are minor compared to the 88 others still on the choping block. And since I have no idea what the other 2 are, they obvious failed in that regard. All this deception does is piss people off more and more when it seems to me now is the time when you should be coming out firing to get people back on the bandwagon.

The best thing LOST has going for itself is that people have short memories and in 6 days they have a chance to make everyone forget about tonights dysfuctional episode. Thank goodness there isnt a month to wait because I dont know if anyone would come back. I have a gut feeling though that next weeks will be more back tracking filler with another needless flashback all leading up to some big reunion where once agian no one will ask the right questions or respond in a logical manner.

Its a real shame to wait for the new season, then get let down with crummy episodes. Lost was the best show on TV. The first EP was getting there then we two goof EP's. Is this the kind of programming we who are loyal to LOST deserve?

An absolute and utter disappointment. No plot progression. Terrible flashback plot. If all of our island's "mysteries" are drawn out to the degree that Jack's tattoos were, our Losties might need to start looking for some more acting jobs...
Yet, I have faith in the producers. (I just need to remind myself that after an episode like that)

1) We sorta found out what 1/2 of Jack's tattoos mean, but the dharma-esque triangle & number 5 were left unexplained (although we can figure out the 5 on our own),

If you look carefully, you'll see that it was 5 Thai guys that kicked the snot out of Jack. How's that for enlightenment on the number 5 on his tattoo? That would make more sense than to me than whatever tripe they conjure up to give it some more mysterious and purposeful meaning :biggrin:

I watched it again and skipped the flash backs and it became a much better episode.
But thats not saying a whole lot.
Sad.

Why in pluperfect hell do you hype up 3 big mysteries and not deliver on any front. Jacks tattoes are minor compared to the 88 others still on the choping block. And since I have no idea what the other 2 are, they obvious failed in that regard.

I can't be 100 % certain, but I think the three mysteries were ...

1- What do Jack's tattoos mean!?!
I think what TPTB failed to comprehend is that they wouldn't need the fingers
and toes of very many people to count the total number of people who give a
rat's behind what Jack's tattoos mean. Guys, we just don't care.

2- What happened to Cindy?
Anyone could have made this mistake. We wanted to know how the Others
had managed to snatch an adult woman away so silently? Where did they take
her? What have they been doing to her since they got her there? Was she actually
an Other all along and only posing as a stewardess? Alas, there was some sort
of miscommunication and those crazy guys thought we were curious about
whether Cindy had decided to take up a new and exciting career as a brain dead
voyeur. A simple error. I do it all the time.

3- Where are the tailie children?
I suppose that in the interest of fairness, we need to take responsibility for this
one. We wanted to know where the Others had been keeping the children. Have
they been fed? Taken care of? Harmed in any way? For this one, the writers
decided to slap our hands and accuse us of asking the wrong question, by
taking the technicality route and showing us exactly where the children were ...
at that particular moment. Nothing more. Exit, stage left.

So, the remaining question is ... did this second rate dog and pony show deliver?

They didn't answer three mysteries. They didn't answer three curiosities. They didn't even answer three questions! They answered two. Jack found out where Juliet was and Sawyer found out the Others have yards.

Wow. I'm sure everyone will excuse me for being monumentally underwhelmed by this new information. :drowsy:

We still don't know the meaning behind the tattoos because Jack so much as says, that's what it says it's not what it means. Great, thanks for that Jack. Just when I thought they were giving us one stinking answer you have to take that away.

Amen to that! I thought we were finally going to get one solid, no other possible explanation answer, but no. He even had to say it in that snarky, snobbish way. Terrible!

So we start the episode with Sawyer paddling the boat, singing the drinking song featured in "Jaws". No, I am not impressed with your cleverness, writers. No, I am not going to go scour "Jaws" for clues about Lost. I know better now. I know why that reference is in there. It is there in the hopes that some of the magic from that outstanding film will somehow be transferred onto this show. Not happening.

The rest of this episode I'd rate right down there with "Fire + Water". Not quite that low, but right down there. There were attempts to go somewhere. Characters were asking questions. "Where's Juliet?" just wasn't a question I cared about... at all.

I knew the writers would never allow Carl to spill much of anything about the Others, but I thought it would be because he'd get killed, or have brain damage from his "therapy" or something... interesting. Nope! Sawyer just let him go. Just plain ol' let him go.

When Juliet and Jack were on the deck of the boat at the end, I was just waiting for them to re-enact the scene from "Titanic". They were right there at the bow railing. All she had to do was stretch her arms out and... "Jack, I'm flying!" See, don't even have to change the name!

Sorry, I just feel like that episode was such a slap in the face. Definitely not what this show needed at this point.

I haven't been this angry at a Lost episode since Fire + Water. Don't get me wrong, I LOVE Lost...but to write and shoot this kind of episode? I do not see this paying off any time soon. The whole episode could have been told within 15 minutes. The backstory could have been a lot more interesting than it was. It could have been Jack getting involved with the gangster underground or something..getting trained to be Batman! That would have been so much more fun, rather than that terrible excuse for an actress, Bai Ling.

This goes under the list of Lost episodes I despise (which aren't very many).

When the writers mentioned the bombs they would be dropping this season, they said there would be a character bomb in one of the first 3 episodes after the break. If it hit, I didn't feel the explosion.
This episode was dull for me. I expected much more from it. There is very little to even discuss about it. A lot of the discussion topics are only statements of the obvious.

With the recent talk of the finale coming after 4 or 5 seasons, they should not be wasting time opening up a dozen new questions in one episode, without making any progress towards answering a few of the hundreds of questions we already had. We knew Cindy & the kids were with the Others. We learned no more about them. We learned nothing about the real meaning of Jacks tattoo. Sawyer & Kate are no closer to home. A new mysterious Other we know nothing about.....

This episode was a case of screwing around and not getting any work done.

I am nervous that the series will end with too many mysteries left unanswered.

I agree with everyone else. This was a very frustrating episode. I mean who cares about Jack's tatoos? People get tatoos all the time, nothing mysterious there. Also they could of revealed more about Cindy and the kids. There really wasn't anything new there. Nothing at all was accomplished in this episode ::frown:

Hated it. Total filler. Nothing important was answered and the mythology was not advanced in any significant way. The flashbacks no longer advance our understanding of the characters. We get it - Jack is a reluctant leader with daddy issues. Do we really need to have this fact continually reinforced with flashbacks?

There are a hundred mysteries that need to be answered and I'm beginning to think that the writers are incapable of answering ANY of them in a satisfying way. I suspect when this series finally wraps up, we'll be left with more questions than answers.

We're almost half way through season three and Lost is in a serious slide. If something significant doesn't happen in the next couple episodes, I'm bailing on Lost.

If you believe the writing was bad, then it's the fault of Lindelof and Cuse.

Yep. Don't know about her partner on this episode, but Elizabeth Sarnoff is an incredible writer/producer. She helped shape Deadwood, which is one of the most innovative and well-crafted television shows ever made.

As the show runners, Damon and Carlton are responsible for everything that makes it onto the air.

Very early on we were told that "Jack's" tatoos were not relevent. They are the tatoos that were already on Matthew Fox prior to his casting as "Jack" in the show.

Fine... your actor has some body art on him.

So now, we need to waste an entire episode working so very hard to tie those irrelevant tatoos into the plot?

Instead of knowing how you can twist and turn to make a few green marks on an actor's arm fit into the show... I'd really rather you'd take on the (oh, so very obvious) question: What the hell is going on here?

Let's advance the plot rather than waste time trying to account for irrelevant details.

This thread is more entertaining than the episode was. :helps:

This thread is more entertaining than the episode was. :helps:

ROFLMAO :biggrin:

Ditto my friend, ditto! :)

Just want to clarify I didn't hate this ep but I want to address something:

We still don't know the meaning behind the tattoos because Jack so much as says, that's what it says it's not what it means. Great, thanks for that Jack. Just when I thought they were giving us one stinking answer you have to take that away.

I'm pretty sure what Jack meant was that Isabelle was interpreting it at face value, but Jack was thinking about what Achara said to him "you're a leader but it makes you lonely, etc.". "He walks among them but he isn't one of them" (para, only saw the ep once so far) is what it says, but what it means is so much more than that...and I don't think its necessary to spell that out. So, imo, we still have our answer...basically its solidifying the "hero" thing...and I really hope this isn't comparison to Christ because we all know what his fate was. :frown:

This thread is more entertaining than the episode was. :helps:


There are it would seem better writers in this thread than on the show.
hehe

I am very sorry that have to join in the bashing, but this episode was awful.
It was really exciting how the season restarted after the hiatus, and I was sitting tight waiting for another great episode...and nearly nothing got delivered. A real filler.
And another A-Team episode I really didn't want to see.
There were at least some information contained that will help develop the story in further episodes, but they were so buried in the other 40 minutes of boredom, I can understand if a lot of people give it a terrible rating.

Not to get me wrong, I'm still totally entangled by LOST and I still think that it will be possible to come up with a plausible explanation (The Master Plan), even only short before the end.
But I am also the kind of person who loves movies with a twist, like Memento or nearly everything from David Lynch (and try to get an explantion about his movies from him, will you?:biggrin:)

So I am not letting down LOST, but I just have to beg to the producers that
a) they spare us filler-ladden crap like this epi and
b) they are going to give their devoted viewers some answers SOON.

I can stand it answer-free for quite a while, but a lot of people are understandably so fed up and these are the people responsible for your ratings, so please with icing on top make them happy. They decide indirectly whether you writers get fired or not.

Cheers

Hated it!!! The worst episode so far in the history of Lost! I am so sick of the Jack/Kate/Sawyer show and I wish they would disappear for the rest of the season. They have changed Sawyer from being a really cool character into being a sap.

I find Alex to be really annoying and now with the addition of Karl and them staring at the stars at the end of the episode I felt like I was watching a daytime soap!

Bring back Locke, Sayid, Charlie, Hurley, Sun, Jin, Claire, and Vincent!!!!!!!!

This thread is more entertaining than the episode was. :helps:

i totally agree!

Please, no more Kate and Sawyer and Jack triangle melodrama for a while. I like these characters very much individually, but I'm bored to insanity with the triangle, what remains of the triangle, and future speculation about the triangle.

Let's get back to circles like the brooch on Ms. Hawkings scarf.

Add my name to the ever growing list.......I actively disliked this episode.

I was mildly interested in whatever Juliette's 'marking' meant (Tom and Alex seemed overly shocked and slightly scared), and I had a smile on my face at the prospect of Jack getting zapped by the food button......but of course he didn't fall for it :rolleyes: .

The Jack/Juliet bonding was good (if not a little cheesy), but it leads me to believe our favourite triangle is going to morph into some wierd fork shape...... Sawyer loves Kate who loves both Sawyer and Jack who loves both Kate and Juliet :confused: Great....sounds like fun.....

Add my name to the ever growing list.......I actively disliked this episode.


:rotflmao2:

Reminds me of: "It's an active kill...meaning that whatever is eating this is gonna be back for more"

As long as you don't pro-actively dislike episodes :)

...and I had a smile on my face at the prospect of Jack getting zapped by the food button......but of course he didn't fall for it :rolleyes: .


:crying:

I was so hoping that Mr. Grumpy/Been-there-done-that/Daddy-Issue/Bully/Got-way-to-much-Jackbacks would receive some therapeutical electroshocks....*sigh*
Wouldn't it be nice if story progression needed to kill off Jack?



The Jack/Juliet bonding was good (if not a little cheesy), but it leads me to believe our favourite triangle is going to morph into some wierd fork shape...... Sawyer loves Kate who loves both Sawyer and Jack who loves both Kate and Juliet :confused: Great....sounds like fun.....

:yikes:

***Mod edited*** when they fail to ask existential questions when the have the chance to?
Please! No! More! triangels, tetraeders, or other odd-formed shapes of love tangles. Please! I mean it!
Maybe this is the secret plot:
They are in a kind of "Vanilla Sky" VR to get cured from monogamy?

They followed up what I thought was the best episode of the series with what was with out any doubt whatsoever the absolute blue ribbon, gold medal winning worst episode of the series, by FAR.

Absolutely nothing happened. Jacks flashbacks made no sense. Jack screaming at Cindy made no sense. The most interesting part of the whole episode we don't get to see but a glimpse of.

Oh, and by the way, Darlton... Nobody cared about Jack's tattoos. This was one of Lost's biggest unanswered "questions"? Really? I could probably think of 100 questions I'd like answered before Jack's ink.

And his tattoos didn't really mean crap anyway. "He is one who walks amongst us who is not one of us?" Reaaaaaaaaaal insightful. What a waste.

I guess after two fantastic episodes we were bound for a bad one, but boy this was bad.

Some parts were good (like Cindy & the parts where Ben was in).

The flashbacks were so boring one might've though they were Charlie's.

Hated it!!! The worst episode so far in the history of Lost! I am so sick of the Jack/Kate/Sawyer show and I wish they would disappear for the rest of the season. They have changed Sawyer from being a really cool character into being a sap.

I find Alex to be really annoying and now with the addition of Karl and them staring at the stars at the end of the episode I felt like I was watching a daytime soap!

Bring back Locke, Sayid, Charlie, Hurley, Sun, Jin, Claire, and Vincent!!!!!!!!

Amen.

Not really much to add (except bring back Desmond too). An appearence from our long absent Beachies would have made this episode much better for me.

Lost has slowly but surely lost the plot. I'm unconvinced these "reveals" were anything special. The answering of questions with questions has really become tedious. 57 hours so far and yeah stuff has happened and I really enjoyed season 1 but does anyone else feel that since the initial success of the first season a lot of lost now is just padding for more revenue through advertising? Something is going down but at an extremely slow and excruciatingly painful rate.

I was disappointed. Like most before me have stated, the Jack flashback wasn't necessary - filler and fluff. Seems like the tattoo back story was only put in to introduce Isabelle - it's meaning is insignifcant to the overall story. The writers could have covered that in 10 minutes instead of a full hour. I would have loved to see some other mystery added in Phuket that ties Jack to the island or the others.

Written by Elizabeth Sarnoff and Christina M. Kim. Directed by Paris Barclay.
I'll remember not to have high expectations when watching their next creation. (If some good soul doesn't fire them before they have the chance to mess up the show even more.)

I can't decide who was more annoying in this episode...dullard Jack, soppy vomit-inducing Sawyer, infuriating Kate, vapid Karl, smug self-righteous Others, skanky Ancara...pretty much every character in this episode was at their worst. Bring back the beachies (I can't say it enough!)

I'll remember not to have high expectations when watching their next creation.
Just keep in mind that, while they wrote the script, the ideas were not theirs solely. The episode ideas are brainstormed in a room and then the script is assigned to writers. The writers are responsible for things like the dialogue, but not the overall story idea.

LOST is my favorite television show, and I look forward to each episode with anticipation.

Last night's episode was a huge letdown. It is definitely the worst episode of the current season thus far, and doesn't compare favorably to most episodes of any season.

The flashback was lousy- I'd rank it in the Top Five Worst Lost Flashbacks, along with several of the Kate flashbacks. The only flashback that annoyed me more than this one was Kate's toy airplane flashback.

Did we gain any great insight into Jack's character or motivations? At the end of the show, I knew I'd need to log on here just to see if anyone could explain to me what I saw. What did I miss?

The main plotline was as uninteresting as it could be, considering we had one of the show's Best Episodes Ever last week. I no longer care about the Others. I want the Smoke Monster, Locke, Charlie, Sayid etc

The worst/best thing about last night's episode: It convinced me that LOST could easily survive the loss of Jack.

With the show leaking viewers every week, I hope they can do better than this next week. I'll be there to see this through- I just hope ABC will let this show survive so we can get some ending.

HERE, HERE!!!

Elizabeth Sarnoff and Christina Kim... please stop.

"The Hunting Party" was just plain awful. "The Whole Truth," "Abandoned," "Two for the Road," and "Further Instructions" seemed so anithetical (in terms of plot AND character) to what has been already established by the LOST canon that these episodes could -- for the most part -- be THROWN AWAY and the rest of the surrounding episodes would still make sense. But maybe that's their missive from CC and DL? To write "filler" bewteen the episodes that actually establish plot and initiate dynamic character development?

I'm a writer, I write for a living. If I wrote an episode as bad as ASIASL, my editor would have had to issue a public apology and then a public dismissal. Even if this is a "filler" episode, you could at the very least make it interesting - there ARE writers who CAN do that. I regard this flashback as I regarded Kate's in "I Do" (ugh, ugh, ugh, ugh... I'll never get those 42+ minutes back...) -- more fluff, filler, rambling inane dialogue and ineffectual discourse. At the end of every episode, the writers SHOULD ask:

1) How have I furthered the plot?
2) To what EXTENT have I furthered the plot?
3) And the most important issue: how does this build upon/add to the established LOST canon?

How could two writers (in good faith) put their names on those 42 minutes?

-- MWB :mad:

P.S. And with all of the hanging sub-plots from seasons 1-3, why should we even HAVE a filler episode???

Lost is really starting to disappoint me. Seasons one and two were so good. What the hell happened? I cannot believe how uninteresting last night's episode was. They haven't lost me as a viewer just yet but they are slowly pushing me away.

This episode was insulting. Just awful. The writiers STILL take for granted that they can jerk the audience around indefinitely. Hubris anyone?

The Jack-Kate-Sawyer love triangle is moronic beyond words and the dead weight that's sinking this show for good.

I liked "Flashes Before Your Eyes" and I actually got excited for 5 minutes that this show had found its way again. Ah.....should have known better. Big fat raspberries for yet another stinker.

The Jack-Kate-Sawyer love triangle is moronic beyond words and the dead weight that's sinking this show for good. That little montage at the end of this episode doesn't bode well; looks like they'll be continuing down the love story route.

Two things really irked me.

1- The fact that Jack apparently has no actual desire to escape. He seems to be perfectly fine being a prisoner despite the few times he's gotten out of his CAGE to walk about at his leisure. Even if he wants to stay with the Others, I see no reason why he would agree to continue to live like an animal in a cage. Why not make one of your stipulations that you get treated like a human being if you stay to be Ben's doctor?

2- It's so nice to see that the Others will not tolerate "murder." It's interesting that Ethan's name was brought up in this episode, as well as ironic, since the last time we saw Ethan alive on the island, he was busy killing people in the night and hanging Charlie on tree branches in the jungle. At this point, it's painfully obvious that the Others were pretty much invented out of thin air long after Season 1 had finished.

And one last thing... I didn't mind Jack's flashbacks as much, because really No Daddy + No Sarah = Much improved Jack flashback, BUT in the end, when you think about it, the story made NO sense.

That little montage at the end of this episode doesn't bode well; looks like they'll be continuing down the love story route.

Remember last summer how TPTB were saying season 3 would be "the season of romance"? The minute I heard that, I figured things would start to nosedive. I'd wager the bulk of Lost fans don't care about romance. At least not to this sickening degree.

Get back to the beachies and the real mysteries of the island, please. And ABC, stop flat-out lying to your viewers. "Three Big Answers"? Right...

That was awful its all I can say.


Get back to the beachies and the real mysteries of the island, please. And ABC, stop flat-out lying to your viewers. "Three Big Answers"? Right...
Ha yeah like What do you do with children? We give them a better life....right well thanks for clearing that up!

HATED IT!!!! Spent much of the episode screaming at the TV - "W. T. F.!!!!!!"

What did Tom mean by his comment about glass houses? That Jake shouldn't talk? That he is just as bad at the Others???? Jack has hung someone? Jack did experiments on a pregnant woman and was going to kill her to take her baby? Jack forced someone to do surgery by threatening to kill someone?? WTF??

The whole time that Ben or Juliet or Cindy or Tom talked to Jack and were condesending or expecting him to cooperate as if that is normal for a person who just went through a very traumatic experience of being in a PLANE CRASH only a couple months ago while trying to bring his dead father home for buriel, then dealing with the Others attacking and killing the survivors because the were poking around the island they were trapped on, then is kidnapped and told if he doesn't do surgery they will kill Sawyer....but now, well there has been an incident and they have to sort out the paperwork, so could Jack please tell his side of the story as to what happened in surgery???? WTF!!!

Oh, and one of the off screen conversations had better be about Alex and her mother!!!!! The long walk that Alex and Jack took between surgery and the "courtroom" and he didn't say anything about the French Lady, or ask any kind of questions? AND how convienent that they didn't show us ANY of that journey and that apparently they didn't meet one person!!

The writers have GOT to be kidding me with the characterization this episode!! Kate for some STUPID reason turns to Sawyer and says they have to go back, and then just looks stupidly at him when he says NO! Then Sawyer for some STUPID reason doesn't decide to use the boat to get around the island to the beach because he can't steer in the dark?? WTF?? Its called going to shore for the night and taking the boat back out the next day so that the Losties will at least have a boat to go fishing!!! Sure they can't take the boat into the beach they are on, but they could sure as hell TRY to keep the boat! Kate never asks Karl any clear questions, and doesn't ask for clarification for any of Karl's vague answers?? Sawyer for some STUPID reason (called the writers can't have Karl stay with the losties) lets Karl go??? WTF

Let me be very clear, I don't care about getting the answers, I know they can't give us the answers, I know that Karl couldn't get back to the beach just as I know that Ethan had to be killed but in EVERY case, they really really REALLY should have had the Losties at least ASK the questions! Writers, just because they ask doesn't mean that you have to answer!!! Avoiding the asking does not make the questions the viewers have go away!!!!!

There were so many places where they could have had Jack ask and they didn't. The closest they came was him telling Tom what kind of people he thought they were, and they come up with the reference to glass houses???

Also, I am sick to death of the Others treating the Losties like they are stupid, or that they shouldn't judge what the Others have done to them so far! Either explain their attitude, or the writers need to show the Losties calling them on it.

I am a rapid fan of the show, I may have ranted and raved about the show, but I am addicted to it. My hubby stopped being a fan early last season but he still watches with me. This last episode was so bad, my hubby asked me why I make him watch it. About half way through, he told me that I should stop watching it if it makes me so angry! Always before, I have felt a loyalty to watching the show, but after seeing the preview for next week and knowing what it is actually about due to spoilers...for the first time EVER, I am not feeling the anticipation for next week.

I hate many things about the show, but I love it too. Last night I felt indifferent during the preview which scared me more than anythingelse, cause as you know, the opposite of love isn't hate, its indifference.....

This episode's flashbacks were just silly, and not silly in a comedic way like with Hurley's flashbacks. Are Jack's tattoos that big of a mystery? Not really. It's just a tattoo. Who cares. And the dialogue. My god, Lost may not be known for it's "compelling" dialogue, but this episode reached a new low. The first scene might as well have gone like this:

JACK: Why hello there exotic Thai woman. I am big strong American man.
ACHARA: Ooooooh, I am little Thai woman, I grow up on rice patty. I love big strong American man!


Euuuuuh. To top it all off, not one single answer. I thought we were going to find out why the tailies were taken. All we found out was, yes, the tailies were indeed taken...which we already knew.

I'm also getting tired of Jack's overdramatic screaming and hollering. I see them as nothing more than hissy fits now. Just give the kid a cookie, and maybe he'll shut up.

To borrow a line from a good episode of one of my favorite sitcoms ("Newhart")...

Me no like.

The only good thing about this episode is that maybe people will stop comparing every bad episode to "Fire + Water" - which I kinda liked.

While I don't think this was the "worst" episode ("I Do"), it was pretty cringe-worthy.

I am not sure if the writers realize it yet, but changing the "others" from a bunch of crazy island living hillbilies into a suburban-living normal people really tanked the show. I still can't get over the fact that they went from people with stealth abilities and super-human strength to people who like cheeseburgers and the Red Soxs.

Regardless, too many "mysteries" and too few satisfactory answers and too many characters destroyed for the sake of plot points.

The Jack-Kate-Sawyer love triangle is moronic beyond words and the dead weight that's sinking this show for good.

We are seeing the light. Jack, Kate and Sawyer are good (if over-rated IMHO) characters individually, but the triangle drags them all down and makes them so annoying that I just want to lock all three of them in little monkey cages and throw them in the ocean.

Ya, I don't understand what relevance the flashbacks had to Jack's emotional development.

And the "three questions" did turn out to be lame. HOWEVER, i don't think thats a fault of the show, rather a fault of promotion at abc. Remember, this episode was the way it was far before the people at abc decided to promote it as answering 3 questions. I don't think the episode was ever meant to say/do that, they just promoted it that way.

The episode was one big fat ZERO. Definitely NOT worth staying up till 11 for.

Ya, I don't understand what relevance the flashbacks had to Jack's emotional development.

And the "three questions" did turn out to be lame. HOWEVER, i don't think thats a fault of the show, rather a fault of promotion at abc. Remember, this episode was the way it was far before the people at abc decided to promote it as answering 3 questions. I don't think the episode was ever meant to say/do that, they just promoted it that way.

The promo department at ABC needs a serious slap in the face. Way to overhype guys, I feel kind of bad for the producers. This wasn't a great episode, but it was made even worse by that idiotic "THREE QUESTIONZ!!111!" promise.

This is my first post here. Up until last night, I have loved every epi. This one, well, I'm still trying to figure it out. I was disappointed, to say the least. But, on a brighter note, I'm hoping that this will be my last post here as well.

The promo department at ABC needs a serious slap in the face. Way to overhype guys, I feel kind of bad for the producers. This wasn't a great episode, but it was made even worse by that idiotic "THREE QUESTIONZ!!111!" promise.

I agree, the promos overhyped the episode way too much- and they were on all the time!. I still can't figure out exactly what questions we got answered besides Jack's tattoos, which I didn't even realize those were mysterious let alone one of the "big island mysteries." The only saving grace for me was the Jack/Juliet interaction.

Yeah this episode was pretty dull. I couldn't really hear the part where Jack follows that girl into the tattoo parlor. What did she say? I didn't understand the whole episode. Anyway, it didn't even seem worth understanding.

the writers of this show seemed to have bombed. TMZ's weekly take, it never has been this negative as far as I remember. Still, it's pretty funny.
http://www.tmz.com/2007/02/22/lost-diary-stranger-in-a-strange-land/

Overhyped episode. And hella confusing. And that's not just because of the medication I was on while watching it.

Why is a Thai lady "carving" Chinese letters into people? Wouldn't she, you know, "carve" Thai letters, maybe? All Asians aren't the same, you know.

Why the heck are the people so mad that Jack gets a tattoo? What in the world is this "gift" nonsense? None of it was explained even remotely well.

Why couldn't I tell what the Bai Ling character was saying 3/4 of the time? She was absolutely awful. Maybe I am some horrible American pig, but I don't mind characters speaking in accents as long as I can still sort of process what they're saying. I know I'm being too picky on that one.

The end of the episode was pretty decent though, and I don't want to throw it all away. But it was still fairly lame overall, especially after an excellent episode like Flashes.

Oh, and Karl just had to leave before he dishes out any real information. Ha. Just like Charlie had to show up and gun down Ethan. Just like Desmond had to run away after 3 episodes. Just like Rousseau has to disappear for half a season between appearances. How convenient and how annoying!

I am just fine with the powers that be withholding the secrets of the island from us! That's cool. Hold back some stuff so that we have things to look forward to learning! But when you hold back information when the characters ought to have learned it at this point (like the bajillion opportunities to talk to Alex or Karl or Juliet to get them to explain what all this Others nonsense is about), then it just gets frustrating and ridiculous.

How did Taiwan get in the mix, she was supposedly Thai, I think that's what you mean, oui?

So what was it about this episode that suddenly snapped so many people out of their 'Lost can do no wrong' trance? I mean, I watched this episode and thought "same old garbage", but usually when I think that, I log on here only to see the "Rate this episode" poll showing sky-high numbers, with tons of people voting 9 or 10 for every episode.

But not today. Today, there are only 26 replies to the "Loved it" thread (twenty six!), but 126 in the "Didn't love it" thread, and the "Rate this episode" thread has almost half of the respondents voting a 5 or below! Incredible!

I'm honestly shocked at how many people are actually disappointed in this episode (not because I thought it was good, but because I didn't see anything THAT different from other episodes which I have thought were equally garbage, but others thought were "A PERFECT 10!!11!")

The biggest question answered last night was Cindy’s line “we’re just watching Jack” I’m more convinced then ever that the premise of this show is hook millions of viewers, then slowly, diabolically and deliberately cripple the show and observe the reaction via the internet message boards.

The Dharma initiative is watching you…the viewer!

So what was it about this episode that suddenly snapped so many people out of their 'Lost can do no wrong' trance? I mean, I watched this episode and thought "same old garbage", but usually when I think that, I log on here only to see the "Rate this episode" poll showing sky-high numbers, with tons of people voting 9 or 10 for every episode.

But not today. Today, there are only 26 replies to the "Loved it" thread (twenty six!), but 126 in the "Didn't love it" thread, and the "Rate this episode" thread has almost half of the respondents voting a 5 or below! Incredible!

I'm honestly shocked at how many people are actually disappointed in this episode (not because I thought it was good, but because I didn't see anything THAT different from other episodes which I have thought were equally garbage, but others thought were "A PERFECT 10!!11!")



I've been thinking the exact same thing. This episode was just a continuation of many of Lost's faults.

I was certain that I wouldn't have to post in this thread this season, because by and large, even with some inconsistences, and horrible balancing of the entire cast, I've enjoyed ever episode so far, especially the last two. But this episode...dreadful. Just dreadful.

It dawned on me last night, how utterly uninspiring MF is as a lead actor. Generally speaking, I like the guy, and have enjoyed his performances, but it became noticable to me that he lacks charisma, and with the sub-par writing for this episode, his lack there of was glaringly obvious, in my opinion.

Aside from that, this episode was such a let down from the previous two. For the first time ever, I can honestly say that I could have cared less about S/K, and their issues. I just didn't need to see them last night. Outside of Sawyer's conversation with Karl, those two retreating to their neutral corners after lashing out at one another could have waited. :rolleyes:

Where are the beach Losties? I want to see how Jin is doing, how he's processing all this craziness. I want to know how Sun is dealing with having shot a woman. Where is Sayid? Locke? Claire?

I like the 'Others'...and I want to know more about their story, but unless the writers were going to let us in on what actually happened during Juliet's trial, then the trade off in finding out what Jack's tatoos say, but not what they mean, and him skanking it up in Thailand with some broad who can "see" who people really are...rubbish.

I really hoped I wouldn't have to post in this thread ever again. :(

My first time posting in a thread like this. I can't say that I have loved every eppy. Some were very good, while others have been lacking. I was more disappointed in this one than any other.

That whole story on how Jack got the tat was a waste of time.

Jack had the opportunity to get a few answers from Alex, and all he asked about was Juliet.

Kate and Sawyer had a perfect oppotunity to get some answers from Carl, and they did not take advantage of that.

Not much about this one to be positive about. Just wasted time and wasted opportunities.


I also hope that I never feel the need to post in a thread like this again.

I agree with Vertical that this episode was very much like what we have been seeing lately, but the disappointment I felt last night was stronger than any other time. It had a much slower pace, and I felt time was wasted on the whole tatoo backstory.

I also think it's mainly due to the previews implying that we are going to learn something important, and then instead they give us nothing. :mad:

Over the past several weeks, the writers and producers have acknowledged the fans are not happy with the way the show has been going, so by that alone I had hoped they would change things. Alas, it is not to be I guess. :frown:

So what was it about this episode that suddenly snapped so many people out of their 'Lost can do no wrong' trance? I'm honestly shocked at how many people are actually disappointed in this episode (not because I thought it was good, but because I didn't see anything THAT different from other episodes which I have thought were equally garbage, but others thought were "A PERFECT 10!!11!")

I agree with you. Aside from NIP, these past two episodes and the beginning of season three have been awful. I'm a huge Jack fan and I love MF (and I'm not going to rip on how inspiring he can be like someone else did :rolleyes:) but this episode was for lack of a better word completely dull. I don't blame MF for this at all, because he is a terrific actor and unfortunately he had really bad material this week. If I were him, I think I would have sat down with the people that wrote this episode and asked that some things actually be changed, even if no action would have been made. It wouldn't have hurt to try, because from a viewers standpoint, there was a lot wrong with this episode. Many people are blaming the writers and ABC, but those I believe come secondary to TPTB. They are the masterminds behind this whole show and they are the ones that create the plots. They did not and have not done a satisfactory job so far with this season. For the first time in my viewing experience, I will say that I think it would do them a great service to pay attention to the ratings and what people (not only on here) are enjoying and what could be improved.

What a rip-off this show is turning into!

They are really starting to stretch things way too much. How did tonight's episode advance the story?

Exactly how did they answer any question last night?

The writers promised: We'll tell you what Jack's tattoo means. Hmm Still waiting for that one! The only thing you explained is PART of his tattoo, not the whole thing, notice that when the Thai guy lifts jack's sleeve to see the tattoo there's only one line of chinese caracters. Where's the rest of it? Oh Wait I know it will be explained in season 4, either way who cares? We know they have absolutely nothing to do with the story as he had them before joining the show.

They also promised: You'll find out about Cindy....We found out what exactly? That scene was so confusing. Only brought more questions. Oh wait they did answer the Cindy question, the answer is they still dont know what to do with her caracter despite the fact that she disappeared over a year ago.

They also promised: "you'll know what happened to the kids", That answer must of been revealed during the commercial breaks when I was on a pee break because I sure didnt see/hear anything to that regards.

If Jack is so important to the storyline then why did the writers want to kill him off in the very first episode?

What was the point for this episode? Juliet getting marked? ooo ooo oh no, they marked me, boo hoo, I will ashamed in public for the rest of my life....oh no wait It's on my back where no one can see it...Who the hell cares about Juliet, seriously?????????? Was it explaining Jack's tattoo? Which could of been done in a 1 minute exchange between Jack and anyone else on the island at some point.

Someone: Hey cool tattoo, Is that Chinese? What does it mean?
Jack: "He who walks among us, but is not one of us"

There! I wasted 30 seconds of your time instead of one hour!

Things that should of happen to advance the storyline
Jack asking better questions to Alex, something like"Hey we found this crazy lady in the Jungle who says she's your mom, is she?

Sawyer asking better questions to Carl Something like "What? Were you born on this island? when carl said he never heard of the Brady Bunch.

The lack of reasoning from the main caracters is really wearing thin.

I want the hour back that I lost watching this turd!

If next week is the same, then I'm simply going to wait til the season is over and download the episodes,that way I can skip through their commercials!

ok, now, let's see... the tattoos belong to Fox. Whatever meaning was attached to them was a post hoc reason. There is no way the tattoos have any importance in a story whose plot is already outlined. Pointless, anticlimatic, wasteful.
And now we have to wait for another jackback to know what the rest of the tattoos mean? Sheeesh.

BTW, am I wrong or is this the largest difference between "loved it" / "didn't love it" ever?

Yeah, this episode pretty much sucked.

I did get a good laugh, though, when Jack said Achara's kiss tasted "salty". But that was when I thought she was a prostitute.

BTW, am I wrong or is this the largest difference between "loved it" / "didn't love it" ever?

Nope, check out the "I Do" thread and the three or four prior.

This is my first time posting in a "didn't love it" thread.

I had high hopes for this ep. I was curious about the new blond woman, I was hoping Carl would reveal some meaningful information, and of course, I wanted MUCH more out of the Cindy scene.

Alas, it was not to be. But I'm not in despair.
Next episode looks to be a really great one, and now that we are finally off of that little island, I expect things will pick right back up.

I have never watched a LOST episode I didnt like- until last night. It's not that they didnt reveal anything- it's the fact that it was plain and simple TERRIBLE. Flashback was horrible and didnt really advance the story or tell us anything new about Jack. On island stuff was bland and non-engaging.

Yes, it was very confusing. My biggest beefs at the moment are:

1. What was the point of the flashback and the tattoo's if what they actually say isn't what they actually mean?

2. What was the point of putting Jack in Sawyer's cage, even if only temporarily?

3. What was the point of Alex and Jack's "I'll answer your question if you answer mine" conversation? That didn't go anywhere except to show us that Jack obviously cares for Juliet (which actually is one of the things I liked about this episode.)

4. What was the point in Cindy and company "watching" Jack? That whole scene was a waste of air time. And then I didn't understand why Jack got very angry at Cindy when he quite possibly could have found out a few more things about them and the others.

5. Why did Sawyer let Karl go?

6. Why is Ben so against Karl? Is Karl an outsider and not one of them, because Ben wants Karl dead and I thought there is "capital" punishment for killing one of their own?

7. Number six leads me to my next point in why these others actually have "capital" punishment. So they are allowed to kidnap and kill outsiders, but when one of their own does it within the camp, it's looked down upon? :blink: Yeah, that's really civilized. :rolleyes:

I don't post, this is one of my first few, my first in months, but I have to agree with everyone.

Nothing was answered, no plot was furthered, this show is an ensemble show, but it's been nothing but Jack/Kate/Sawyer for far too long, the flashbacks were completely pointless (does anyone really care about jack's tattoos? I mean, come on now). If Kate is feeling all guilty about her little tryst with Sawyer now, then why did she do it? Last night's episode was the worst one I have seen. It's getting harder and harder to justify watching this show!!

I am a huge fan of the show and I HATED last nights episode. Usually, I defend the writers if they don't write such a good episode, but this time THERE ARE NO EXCUSES.

1. The new lady, "the sheriff" OH MY GOD!!! Lets have another lady (this time a little older) have wierd and mysterious conversations with Jack. OH, wait that was last year and her name was Julia. Oh, that lady and those coversations just made me furious!!!

2. The whole thing about 'revealing where Cindy is' and the kids. So, they are alive, MAN, I totally DID NOT SEE THAT COMING!! Give me a break!!! No one even questioned that! The question is, how are the Others keeping them from escaping? And why are they willingly staying there and listening to the others. Cindy's explanation "it is not that simple" was basically the writers way of saying "we don't know what to write here"

3. Karl - OK if he is one of the OTHERS, why do they want to kill him? And how did taking him to the other island 'save' him? Where is he going to go? Back to those houses with back yards, and then when all the others return from work, they are just going to say "hi" to him and continue on with their lives? It makes NO sense! Also, if the others were torturing him, why does he defend them "we live better lives" WHAT THE HELL??? OH, again, made me furious!

4. Kate and Sawyer - OK, so I know that when there is sexual tension between favorite characters the shows usually keep going, but when they get together the 'fun' stops. But seriously, how many more Kate/Saywer arguments are we going to listen to?

5. They BRANDED Julia? OH MY GOD, BUNCH OF CRAP!!! Its like 'The Scarlett Letter' only wait, no one can even see it!! And who goes around 'branding' people? I was really hoping that they explain why Julia is on the island if she never wanted to be there in the first place and what are they 'holding' her with on the island? Obviously she is not leaving, but she is not there willingly either. But no, lets just ignore all that and BRAND her!!! aaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

6. Jack's flasback. OK, so I actually thought it was interesting and I understood what 'He walks among us but is not one of us' means. However, that you really did not need in a flashback, they could have done it in a shorter time frame. I wanted to see more flashbacks of the others, or more flashbacks where it explains how they ended up and WHY on the island!

What a dissapointment! :frown: :mad:

I know it sounds cliche but...Worst Episode Ever.

Seriously thinking about just waiting until the season is over and watching them all at once on my DVR.

3. Karl - OK if he is one of the OTHERS, why do they want to kill him? And how did taking him to the other island 'save' him? Where is he going to go? Back to those houses with back yards, and then when all the others return from work, they are just going to say "hi" to him and continue on with their lives? It makes NO sense! Also, if the others were torturing him, why does he defend them "we live better lives" WHAT THE HELL??? OH, again, made me furious!

LOL, I couldn't agree more with you here. So Karl gets beaten to a bloody pulp and "brainwashed" and he comes up with, they give the kids a better life? :lol2: Right.....whatever you say Karl. He has to be completely doped up. And how is he going to get back to the houses with back yards, take the boat or swim? :rolleyes:

And how is he going to get back to the houses with back yards, take the boat or swim? :rolleyes:

Well, I thought he did say that they live on the 'big' island. So he is technically 'home' but at the same time, if those houses are there on the island where the losties are, then how come they have never seen them? The island can not be THAT big...

4. What was the point in Cindy and company "watching" Jack? That whole scene was a waste of air time. And then I didn't understand why Jack got very angry at Cindy when he quite possibly could have found out a few more things about them and the others.



I took that scene to mean they were there to watch Juliette's trial. They were just hanging around waiting for it to start.

Well, I thought he did say that they live on the 'big' island. So he is technically 'home' but at the same time, if those houses are there on the island where the losties are, then how come they have never seen them? The island can not be THAT big...

Yeah, I was coolwith the fact that Otherville was on another island. But it's on the main one? And Danielle has never found it??

Guess we'll find out for sure next week.......maybe....oh, who am i kidding...

2. The whole thing about 'revealing where Cindy is' and the kids. So, they are alive, MAN, I totally DID NOT SEE THAT COMING!! Give me a break!!! No one even questioned that! The question is, how are the Others keeping them from escaping? And why are they willingly staying there and listening to the others. Cindy's explanation "it is not that simple" was basically the writers way of saying "we don't know what to write here"

:frown: :mad:

Excelent point.

The same can be said of just most of the lost dialogues that go nowhere, since the ridiculous losties/others meeting in The Hunting party, and from Sayid's "interrogation" of Ben onwards.
1) Why didn't Jack tell Cindy Ana Lucia was dead because of the others?
2) Sawyer to Karl: oh, so you have backyards? Ya. Ok...
3) or why didn't.... of forget it, it's too complicated...

The commercial totally lied to me. I feel so violated. Was it just me, or did the commercial for this episode state that we would get some huge answers to some huge question(s)?

1. This episode answered little to nothing.

2. Another boring Jack episode. The whole thing was Booooorrrrrrrrriiiiiiiiinnnnnngggggg, with a capital B.

I'm hoping this episode was just some "filler" and we will get some awesome episodes from here on out. Last week and the week before were great episodes...I feel so let down this week :( It was too soon for another Jack episode. I would have rather watched a flasback episode about Carl.

I still love LOST though.

Regarding that branding, wouldn't it make more sense to brand someone where it's visible? I mean, who's gonna ever see that?

I'd think about it some more, but, well, you see...it's complicated.

A lot of people are saying "another boring Jack flashback". I thought his flashback this week was really boring, but I've loved most of his others and I think Matthew Fox is a brilliant actor. That's part of what made this week's flashback so disappointing to me.

I agree TOTALLY BOOOOOOOOOOOORRRRRRRRRRRRIIIIIIIIINNNNNNNNNNNNGGGG GGG

I should have watched the basketball game with my husband!

I took that scene to mean they were there to watch Juliette's trial. They were just hanging around waiting for it to start.

So they were standing around waiting for the trial. Even that seems a tad ridiculous. So they kidnapped the tailes and for all we know, forced them into their little "society" and now they are just hanging out waiting for a trial to begin? I didn't know Cindy and the tailes were that invested in the happenings surrounding Ben, Juliet and company. If so, then why did they just now come out of hiding, or was it because they were let out. Who knows. :eek2:

I think that was a misdirection. I think they want us to *think* they're there to watch the trial, when truly she meant they're on the island to watch. To watch what? I have no clue.

At least we got to see Jack get the snot beat out of him. I was cheering. At least I got 40 seconds' worth of entertainment out of that.

But that didn't make any sense. Watching someone get beat up for no logical reason or have anyone offer an explanation is not very entertaining to me. :undecide: I felt bad for Jack, because he was doing nothing wrong and these five guys starting attacking him and beating him up. :frown: What made them stop exactly, because they could have killed Jack if they wanted? :frown:

After waiting an hour at the lost restuarant, our food arrived slow, cold , not as ordered, and the portions were entirely too small.

I have never posted in the "didn't love it" before. No easter eggs, ho hum story line any 6th grader could have musterred up, and misleading episode teasers followed by WAY TOO MANY commericals. ABC- take note, your ratings are dropping becasue we'd all rather watch online commerical free! I had to force myself to stay awake for the first time in three years! Pity.

So what was it about this episode that suddenly snapped so many people out of their 'Lost can do no wrong' trance? I mean, I watched this episode and thought "same old garbage", but usually when I think that, I log on here only to see the "Rate this episode" poll showing sky-high numbers, with tons of people voting 9 or 10 for every episode.

But not today. Today, there are only 26 replies to the "Loved it" thread (twenty six!), but 126 in the "Didn't love it" thread, and the "Rate this episode" thread has almost half of the respondents voting a 5 or below! Incredible!

I'm honestly shocked at how many people are actually disappointed in this episode (not because I thought it was good, but because I didn't see anything THAT different from other episodes which I have thought were equally garbage, but others thought were "A PERFECT 10!!11!")

You bring up a fascinating observation. I agree that many "Lost" eps are very similar to this one and after watching this ep I felt the same way I've felt about many episodes, "same old garbage". I wasn't angry after watching this episode because, to me, it was the same stuff we always get - pointless Jack flashbacks, zombie-like characters that don't ask questions, stupid love triangles, etc. etc. So why is this one upsetting so many people and why are die-hard fans not saying "best episode ever" in the "loved it" thread?:undecide:

I think the ABC promo had a lot to do with it and I'm afraid they're going to pay with another huge drop in ratings next week.:rolleyes:

But that didn't make any sense. Watching someone get beat up for no logical reason or have anyone offer an explanation is not very entertaining to me. :undecide: I felt bad for Jack, because he was doing nothing wrong and these five guys starting attacking him and beating him up. :frown: What made them stop exactly, because they could have killed Jack if they wanted? :frown:

I think they beat him up because he 'infringed on their customs' and they stoped beating him because murder is still probably illegal in Thailand. However, I do agree, it was completely pointless... :mad:

Same old terrible garbage.

And there is still a cable running in to the ocean one mile from camp that at lest 2 people on the island know about. And still nobody cares.

One of literally hundreds of dead end stories, but this particular one is my metaphor for the whole show, and I wont let it go.

I rarely didnt love an episode, but ya that had of been the WORST episode ever...
whoever is incharge of making the abc promos should get the sack, talk about making a mountain out of a molehill

I think this episode received the lowest rating from me in a while. What frustrates me is that last week's episode of Lost was actually good, and after that, I expected a lot more from this episode. I'm glad that the people the Others took aren't being tortured, that they're living a "better life" than the one they would have had with the other Losties, but how their life is better is what I want to know. Also, what was it that they were going to watch? Was it the conference about Juliet's sentence, or something else? Jack's flashback was horrible; they only explained one of the tattoos, and the story wasn't even a great one. If Jack had just gotten drunk and decided to get any random tattoo, that probably would have been more interesting. After last week's preview, I was also expecting Kate and Sawyer to finally reach the beach and make a plan for Jack, but I guess that's next week. I think there are a lot more questions that need to be answered, like how Locke ended up in a wheelchair. That's something I've been waiting for, for too long.

This was a weak, dissapointing episode.
Opportunities to ask questions and find out answers were completely ignored.
I like Alex but Karl is annoying.
Isabel is scary and Jacket is interesting. And I like Juliet.

But Sawyer and Kate were so annoying.
The Jackback was horrible. Achara was really horrible. Bai Ling did a terrible job, and the story was pointless and even confusing.

Ugh, just dissapointing. Since there were redeeming points, I can't say I hated it, but I did not love it at all.

So who gets more of the blame here? ABC for overhyping the promo to decieve the audience into getting more ratings short term or the writers for allowing this steaming hot pile of crap to even make it onto the airwaves?

I believe this is still the writers fault, mainly Cuse and Damon. This episode was concieved and written long before ABC sat down and tried to form a preview for it. Honestly I am not going to fault ABC for trying to sell us on a bad product becuase it happens everyday in our society. The fact that Cuse and Damon made it known that they have nothing to do with the previews screams out CYA in my opinion. You did a horrible job, so lets scapegoat it.

Bottom line is the writers and creators did a terrible job on all fronts and that cannot be forgiven or overlooked because ABC tried to turn last nights excrement's into gold. Which has me extremely worried about next weeks episode because they used the phrase, "You don't want to miss what everyone will be talking about the next day" or something along those line. I have a feeling next weeks episode will be another adventure into meltdown city by annoyed fans.

So who gets more of the blame here? ABC for overhyping the promo to decieve the audience into getting more ratings short term or the writers for allowing this steaming hot pile of crap to even make it onto the airwaves?

I believe this is still the writers fault, mainly Cuse and Damon. This episode was concieved and written long before ABC sat down and tried to form a preview for it. Honestly I am not going to fault ABC for trying to sell us on a bad product becuase it happens everyday in our society. The fact that Cuse and Damon made it known that they have nothing to do with the previews screams out CYA in my opinion. You did a horrible job, so lets scapegoat it.
Bottom line is the writers and creators did a terrible job on all fronts and that cannot be forgiven or overlooked because ABC tried to turn last nights excrement's into gold. Which has me extremely worried about next weeks episode because they used the phrase, "You don't want to miss what everyone will be talking about the next day" or something along those line. I have a feeling next weeks episode will be another adventure into meltdown city by annoyed fans.

I could not agree more. This episode was the worst of the worst. I can't think of anything I actually liked about it. And now I'm not even looking forward to next week's episode because I'm afraid it will be more of the same. I don't care what Jack's tattoos mean, I don't care what happened to Karl, I sit there in frustration as the characters act like they're complete morons. Where is the Lost I used to know?

You bring up a fascinating observation. I agree that many "Lost" eps are very similar to this one and after watching this ep I felt the same way I've felt about many episodes, "same old garbage". I wasn't angry after watching this episode because, to me, it was the same stuff we always get - pointless Jack flashbacks, zombie-like characters that don't ask questions, stupid love triangles, etc. etc. So why is this one upsetting so many people and why are die-hard fans not saying "best episode ever" in the "loved it" thread?:undecide:
Perhaps it's a case of "the straw that broke the camel's back" as we used to say. People can make apologies for a few bad episodes, but this was just one too many. Then there's the contrast with last week's excellent episode, which reminded us that Lost can actually put out a good episode when they really try. And the fact that after last week's glimpse of the beach community we are yet again back to Jack/Kate/Sawyer and the Others. And worst of all, it proved that despite everything Cuse and Lindelof have said, Kate hasn't really chosen at all and the love triangle from hell continues on and on and on...

I think they would have done better had they switched episodes 8 and 9, gotten the Alcatraz storyline completely over with, and then started the beach storyline with the Desmond episode. "Stranger in a Strange Land" would still have been horrible, but maybe it wouldn't have come as such a shock.

Sadly, even Michael Giacchino's score let me down in this one. All that saccharine music at the end just seemed like it was trying hard to convince us that it all means something. It only served to underscore just how meaningless it is.

What a load of complete shit.

I spent more time looking away than watching it.

Completly useless flashback. We were bombarded with Jack, like we have all season.

Who the fuck gives a shit about Jack's tatoos! I would have prefered to watch paint dry.

This doesn't mean I hate lost, Im sure it'll pick up again, I just hope TPTB stop shoving completly useless Jack flashbacks down our throats.

I think Jack's lady friend spoke for all of us, when she told Jack, "I don't want to hear about your father".

TPTB are really dragging this thing out for as long as they can..............

So who gets more of the blame here? ABC for overhyping the promo to decieve the audience into getting more ratings short term or the writers for allowing this steaming hot pile of crap to even make it onto the airwaves?

I believe this is still the writers fault, mainly Cuse and Damon. This episode was concieved and written long before ABC sat down and tried to form a preview for it. Honestly I am not going to fault ABC for trying to sell us on a bad product becuase it happens everyday in our society. The fact that Cuse and Damon made it known that they have nothing to do with the previews screams out CYA in my opinion. You did a horrible job, so lets scapegoat it.

Bottom line is the writers and creators did a terrible job on all fronts and that cannot be forgiven or overlooked because ABC tried to turn last nights excrement's into gold. Which has me extremely worried about next weeks episode because they used the phrase, "You don't want to miss what everyone will be talking about the next day" or something along those line. I have a feeling next weeks episode will be another adventure into meltdown city by annoyed fans.

You bring up a good question. A lot of people are blaming ABC for the misleading promo. Most network programs that I watch, I record and fastforward thru the commercials, so the only promo I saw was after last week's episode. I still thought this episode was a snooze fest and I give the episode a big who cares. TPTB could have skipped this whole episode and it would not have had an effect on the entire series.

I was looking forward to the episode that will explain how Locke got in a wheel chair. If this episode is any indication, we'll see a couple hospital workers lift Locke from a bed and sit him in the wheelchair.

I agree it wasn't the promo. Not for me anyway. I didn't pay any attention to the 3 answers tease because I don't watch the show for "answers", I just watch the show for good entertaining stories and characters. This episode had neither of those things so it disappointed whether I was hanging my hopes on ABC's promises or not.

What's so silly about the meaning of the tattoos is that they spent all year talking about this like it's on everyone's minds (I didn't care) and then when they finally deal with it, they only explain the literal meaning of five Chinese characters which is like one small fraction of his total body art. Please don't tell me we still have yet to see more Jackbacks about the rest of them, the stars, the numbers, the pyramids, ugh. Enough already.

I'm glad that the people the Others took aren't being tortured, that they're living a "better life" than the one they would have had with the other Losties, but how their life is better is what I want to know.

Exactly and I was secretly hoping that that would be one of the big mysteries solved during this episode. Instead, we had Karl saying their life is better and then Kate staring at him blankly as if to say, "really?" :rolleyes: This would have been the perfect opportunity for Kate to ask the question on what makes their life better than living on the beach, but neither her nor Sawyer asked anything. I guess her and Sawyer would rather spend their time bickering whether Kate feels guilty for sleeping with him or if her guilt is just solely on the fact that she had to leave Jack behind. :wallbash: I wish those two could be put on the back burner for awhile.

I would just like to ask TPTB, why did you do that for, that meaning this episode as a whole? :confused:

After posting in the "Love It" thread last week, I'm thoroughly disappointed to be back here. I have a few comments:

1. Sawyer let Karl go because he was a "target" and therefore made Skate a target. I'm surprised that so many people seem to have missed this, or didn't find it relevant.

2. I don't give a rat's patootie about Jack's tats especially since they really exist on Matthew Fox's body and don't have anything to do with the Lost story. It was totally unneccessary for TPTB to build a "jackback" on that little item. Irrelevant. :eek:

3. I haven't seen the previews for next week, since CTV in Canada chose not to put them on right after the show, but have seen some Youtube-style ABC previews.... the one where Locke and whoever else storm Alcatraz.... big hairy deal - by then the Others have removed Jack et al to the main island, as we found out from last night's epi, so Kate can't rescue Jack..... is this going to be another filler, or will we be thrown a tidbit here and there?

Sorry about the spoiler - I didn't realize previews were spoilers.... I'll do better next time. :ohwell:

4. For me, this is the second worst epi EVER .... the worst by far, was "Dave", a Hurleycentric flashback which I hated with all my being.

5. Who cares why Jack was in Thailand? I don't, and absolutely cringed at his comment about the "salty" kiss from the girl (who I originally thought was a prostitute). Oh ick, ick, ick. :mad::mad::mad:

6. I really thought we might be getting somewhere when Jack made his comments to Tom about them kidnapping kids, hanging Charlie etc, but as usual.... nothing. Bleah.

7. ANOTHER new character - the blond woman with the really bad haircut. Yee gods! enough already!! I'm SO missing the Beachies - Sayid and Locke especially. They must be wondering if they still have jobs! I know I am. :rolleyes:

8. Please, please - do NOT use these writers again! This was one of the most boring eps ever. And to D & C (no pun intended) - please quit your snickering interviews (or should I say "sniggering") and get on with the bloody story! :mad:

Okay - Rant is turned off for now..... I hope I don't feel compelled to post here next week. :frown:

Shelagh

4. For me, this is the second worst epi EVER .... the worst by far, was "Dave", a Hurleycentric flashback which I hated with all my being.


Yeah 'Dave' was my least fav too...until now. Terrible as I thought 'Dave' was at least it focused on characters like Hurley and Libby...I'm just sick to death of Jack, Kate and Sawyer now and they were all at their most annoying in this ep.

Same old terrible garbage.

And there is still a cable running in to the ocean one mile from camp that at lest 2 people on the island know about. And still nobody cares.

One of literally hundreds of dead end stories, but this particular one is my metaphor for the whole show, and I wont let it go.

Wasn't the cable from Season 1.... Now we are in Season 3 and the writers are wasting time on Jack's Thai girlfriend. Who Cares. Please stop starting new storylines and just finish the storylines left laying all over the place.

Just for starters:
What about all the people cured of illnesses?
What about the Black Rock ship?
What about the Walt's physic powers?
What about the Numbers?
What about the whispers?

Next week I'm not staying up late.... I'll just TIVO and maybe I'll watch or maybe I'll wait for the Season DVD (or not!)

I found that severly boring. Pointless episode.

What's so silly about the meaning of the tattoos is that they spent all year talking about this like it's on everyone's minds (I didn't care) and then when they finally deal with it, they only explain the literal meaning of five Chinese characters which is like one small fraction of his total body art. Please don't tell me we still have yet to see more Jackbacks about the rest of them, the stars, the numbers, the pyramids, ugh. Enough already.
I sure hope none of the other cast members has tats or piercings! Can you imagine their trying to explain, for example, Dominic Monaghan's prince albert?

I'm just sayin'.

I sure hope none of the other cast members has tats or piercings! Can you imagine their trying to explain, for example, Dominic Monaghan's prince albert?

I'm just sayin'.

I bet pacejunkie would love that! hahaha
Dominic Monaghan does have that "living is easy with eyes closed" tattoo. Uh oh!


It's so frustrating that they sent off Karl like that. It's pathetic. If the writers didn't want them to get info from him then why send him away with Kate and Sawyer? It makes no sense.

Okay, last night's episode was boring, boring, anticlimactic and BORING. Jack is boring, and when he smiles, it makes me want to hit him with a blunt object. Jack's flashbacks are boring. His tattoos are boring.

That being said, perhaps the three questions finally answered were:

1. Will Ben's incision get infected?
2. What happened to the stewardess from 815, and why is she so weird?
3. Can Nan stay awake during an episode with almost NO beach activity?

Nan
100%
Who cares why Jack was in Thailand? I don't, and absolutely cringed at his comment about the "salty" kiss from the girl (who I originally thought was a prostitute). Oh ick, ick, ick.I kept looking for Sawyer somewhere in the background, since it came up in a previous episode that he knew where that particular place in Thailand was, too. No dice, unless I missed it while throwing up in my mouth because the episode was SO BAD.

And the girl was simply horrible. I'm 48, and way too old to cringe when on-screen people kiss, but she was skanky and gross, and I don't care if she WAS salty from being in the ocean -- she was probably hygiene deficient as well.

I would post my vomit smiley, but I am new here, and I don't think probably posting images is allowed.

Nan

What's so silly about the meaning of the tattoos is that they spent all year talking about this like it's on everyone's minds (I didn't care) and then when they finally deal with it, they only explain the literal meaning of five Chinese characters which is like one small fraction of his total body art. Please don't tell me we still have yet to see more Jackbacks about the rest of them, the stars, the numbers, the pyramids, ugh. Enough already.

Worse, they specifically stated in season 1 that Jack's tatoos would be explained at the end of the complete series because they would actually have a tremendous impact. If memory serves they said 'Yeah we took this actor and we realised we had to work with his tattoos and then BAM it hit us, something totally intertwining you wouldn't expect, made for the serie's finale season'.

Yeah, eh, so, he's got like, tattoos 'n' stuff and they like, explain and it's cool 'n' stuff and errrr, ties to the overall storyline? We're da Cuse and da Damon man, you believe what we say? You dumb.

Would any of you recognize a stewardess from a plane you were on 2 months ago? Think about it, that's the first and last time Jack saw Cindy and vice versa.

After having been raised there, wouldn't Karl know every square inch of the island...making him the best guide for getting Kate and Sawyer back to the beach ASAP?

If the Others have a code of honor against murder...doesn't that count when Nathan broke the tailenders neck after letting him out of the pit Ana dug out....and when Ethan broke every bone in Steve’s body and killed Charlie (he was dead when Jack found him, technically) ? What about Tom firebombing the raft and kidnapping Walt....all acceptable behavior?

The Others were taking "good" people that made their list. Didn't Eko kill 2 others that were trying to drag him into the jungle? After all we learned about him, why was Eko considered good?

Ethan was their one and only surgeon...so Ben sent him off to spy on the Losties instead of some lesser Other? If they wanted to answer Jacks question about not having a doctor on staff, Ben should have said "Nathan" instead,

The Others have another bigger boat (in addition to Desmond's). What happened to the "Sub" that was referenced before?

It's plot holes like these that make me laugh everytime I read about there being some planned direction on this show.

Jack is boring, and when he smiles, it makes me want to hit him with a blunt object.

That's really mean. :frown: Why would anybody hate when someone is happy? I'm glad we got to see Jack smile, because he rarely smiles and he has such a handsome face when he's happy. :biggrin:

To keep this on topic, another thing I failed to mention earlier is the inconsistency with Kate. First, when her and Sawyer are on the boat, she says quite adamantly that they should turn the boat around because they can't leave Jack behind. Then when they reach the island, she says that she's not guilty and that she knew they had to leave Jack behind. The dialog just seems contradictory.

and btw, wasn't Jack supposed to die in the pilot epi? So what kind of plotline d we have, that now hinges totally on a character that could be discarded in epi one? One whole epi for tattos that actually belong to he actor? the authors are clearly ad libbing it. Nothing makes any sense.... :confused: :mad:

Wow...almost three hours since air time out east...and barely three pages of threads?? Wow...



I think many people do not care anymore. They are tired of so many things about the show

I keep thinking about what Cindy said to Jack, "We're here to watch."


The ratings have fallen drastically since season 2. TPTB are in desperate need of a wake up call.........

Enough with the lame storylines, filler episodes, pointless (and/or) repetitive flashbacks and "answers" that are not answers.

Enough with new characters when they already have too many that they can't work into the show (Rose and Bernard who? Mrs Klugh who?).

We don't need the supposedly resolved "love triangle" to turn into a "love square".

Enough with making the characters look like complete imbeciles by acting completely out of character, behave inconsisantly and show no ability to ask basic common sense questions of anyone.



So to TPTB on behalf of what remains of their frustrated audience...

"We're here to watch"

Please give us something worth watching.

I sure hope none of the other cast members has tats or piercings! Can you imagine their trying to explain, for example, Dominic Monaghan's prince albert?

I'm just sayin'.

I bet pacejunkie would love that! hahaha
Dominic Monaghan does have that "living is easy with eyes closed" tattoo. Uh oh!


Okay I'm curious. What's "prince albert" refer to? I don't get the reference. *hopes it's not dirty* :rolleyes:

On the tattoo note I would like to see them try and explain his LOTR fellowship tattoo. But it makes sense for a rock star to have tattoos, not a spinal surgeon, so I guess his don't need explanation.

C'mon, what's prince albert mean? :)

Okay I'm curious. What's "prince albert" refer to? I don't get the reference. *hopes it's not dirty* :rolleyes:

..

C'mon, what's prince albert mean? :)
Wikipedia is your friend. And it's a piercing.

Okay I'm curious. What's "prince albert" refer to? I don't get the reference. *hopes it's not dirty* :rolleyes:

On the tattoo note I would like to see them try and explain his LOTR fellowship tattoo. But it makes sense for a rock star to have tattoos, not a spinal surgeon, so I guess his don't need explanation.

C'mon, what's prince albert mean? :)

I'm afraid it's dirty, pace. Verrrry dirty.

And, yeah, I suppose a rock musician is more likely to have tattoos than a spinal surgeon. I was just never wondering why Jack had tattoos either.

Well, I guess I should post in this thread as I didn't love the episode. That said, I didn't exactly hate it. If there were two threads 'Hated it!' and 'Didn't Hate It' I'd post in the latter. It was simply average. Not even the worst episode so far this season.

I think people are being a bit OTT when they moan about how the show has lost it etc. especially after last week's episode (FBYE) which was honestly one of the best Lost episodes ever. So far I would rank the Season as such:

1. Flashes Before Your Eyes (10/10)
2. A Tale of Two Cities (9/10)
3. Not In Portland (8/10)
4. Further Instructions (8/10)
5. Every Man For Himself (7/10)
6. I Do (7/10)
7. Stranger in a Strange Land (6/10)
8. The Glass Ballerina (6/10)
9. The Cost of Living (5/10)

Which puts the season average at 7.33. Not bad at all. People need to chill. The second half of the season is always better than the first anyway.

Thanks for the feedback. I appreciate that you're still a fan, but your post was off-topic. This thread is strictly for those who didn't love it.

Wikipedia is your friend. And it's a piercing.

I'm afraid it's dirty, pace. Verrrry dirty.

Ah. Nevermind then. I have an imagination. A pretty darned good one. :)

Hey everyone, turns out Gregg Nations (http://www.thefuselage.com/Threaded/showthread.php?p=1394750#post1394750) didn't think this episode was so strong either. He said it was just okay. Surprised to hear that admission about any new episode because usually they are so hyped. He liked the musical montage though.

That's really mean. :frown: Why would anybody hate when someone is happy? I'm glad we got to see Jack smile, because he rarely smiles and he has such a handsome face when he's happy. :biggrin:

Okay, I'll take back the part about the blunt object. But when Jack smiles, I never, EVER see it as happy -- it's usually sarcastic and mean. Like, "Oh, so you want me to do something for YOU?" It's more of a sneer, and it bothers me.

I need a fresh episode, and I need it now.

Nan

Thanks for the feedback. I appreciate that you're still a fan, but your post was off-topic. This thread is strictly for those who didn't love it.

It wasn't off-topic at all, didn't you read my post. I specifically said I didn't love it. This is the 'Didn't Love It' thread, right? Not the 'Bitch About Last Night's Episode' thread.

I was so psyched for tonight..... But in the end it was blah. Hoping next week will be uber!

I'll agree with you there, though I am always psyched for a new episode :)

Can someone tell me what 3 mysteries were supposed to be answered because if it was Jack's tattoo and where he got it, I don't think I cared that much about it to find out. Or was it the fact that the island they were in was not the island the others really live in. Or the fact that we finally see the kids taken out of the flight or even Cindy.
By my calculations all of the supposed answers were answered once again by more questions.

It wasn't off-topic at all, didn't you read my post. I specifically said I didn't love it. This is the 'Didn't Love It' thread, right? Not the 'vincent About Last Night's Episode' thread.
Sorry, I misread your post.

It takes a lot to leave me stunned into something resembling silence. It took me forever to pull my many thoughts on this episode into a relatively coherent analysis. Even after a couple pages of working out my frustrations, I'm not sure that I've completely pinned down my dislike for this episode. I guess I'm still trying to figure out just what that was supposed to be.

Here's my review for Lost 3.9: "Stranger in a Strange Land":

http://www.entil2001.com/series/lost/season3/lost3-9.html

Overall, this episode seemed to have a lack of focus. None of the attempted parallels seem to come together by the end, which makes the episode somewhat unsatisfying. It also doesn’t help that the episode was promoted as something that it clearly wasn’t. This will hopefully be a temporary setback for the season.

Can someone tell me what 3 mysteries were supposed to be answered because if it was Jack's tattoo and where he got it, I don't think I cared that much about it to find out. Or was it the fact that the island they were in was not the island the others really live in. Or the fact that we finally see the kids taken out of the flight or even Cindy.
By my calculations all of the supposed answers were answered once again by more questions.
Pretty much. ;)

Anyway, here is Gregg Nations' (http://www.thefuselage.com/Threaded/showthread.php?t=70271) confirmation of the "3 Questions."

Man, I love Entertainment Weekly, but they just can't seem to stop fawning over Lost. Has anyone read their review (http://www.ew.com/ew/article/0,,20012534,00.html) of this episode? Here's a snippet:...this Jack-centric episode wasn't as earth shattering as the commercials promised, but it was damn good.
Did they watch the same show as us?

Huge letdown. I'm really, really tired of Jack's fbs. I really don't care about his tattoos. Or his sordid liasons with slutty witches. There is just so much more I want to see, like what has happened to the kids since they were snatched, they seemed happy enough, but what have they experienced? A fb of Ben's would be killer. And get back to the beach already. Very weak epi and one I could have missed without caring.

Wasn't the cable from Season 1.... Now we are in Season 3 and the writers are wasting time on Jack's Thai girlfriend. Who Cares. Please stop starting new storylines and just finish the storylines left laying all over the place.

Just for starters:
What about all the people cured of illnesses?
What about the Black Rock ship?
What about the Walt's physic powers?
What about the Numbers?
What about the whispers?

Next week I'm not staying up late.... I'll just TIVO and maybe I'll watch or maybe I'll wait for the Season DVD (or not!)


I agree: It is insanely annoying that, unlike an exciting, fast paced show like 24 or Prison Break, they're ignoring all these unanswered questions.

As for the Black Rock, don't expect that to be mentioned again. The best 'answer' for that will be what Artz speculated, that there was a tsunami. It hasn't been mentioned in a year and never will be again.
100%
Sorry about the spoiler - I didn't realize previews were spoilers.... I'll do better next time. :ohwell:


Even though 100% of viewers watch the previews, they're still considered spoilers.

Even though 100% of viewers watch the previews, they're still considered spoilers.
Actually, not all of them do watch the previews. One of my coworkers cuts off the TV or changes the channel any time a preview airs. Seriously.

Even though 100% of viewers watch the previews, they're still considered spoilers.

Lots of posters on this site do not watch previews. I am one of them. And one of the things I really like about the fuselage is that previews are considered spoilers.

Does anyone know if the writers, producers, or network people read these forums? Do they peek at the ratio of the Loved It and Hated It threads?

Hey everyone, turns out Gregg Nations (http://www.thefuselage.com/Threaded/showthread.php?p=1394750#post1394750) didn't think this episode was so strong either. He said it was just okay. Surprised to hear that admission about any new episode because usually they are so hyped. He liked the musical montage though.

Well, if Gregg Nations doesn't like where the show is going then he can just watch something else. Maybe he should watch American Idol if he wants instant gratification.:biggrin:

The most pressing question becomes is Gregg's resume updated?;)

Seriously though, this episode fell short on so many levels.

1.) Redundant backstory: We already know all that stuff about Jack. Not only that we already knew where he got his tattoos, so theoretically the answer we got is literally "how" he wound up with them on his body. We know nothing about the mystery woman, other than she's "reads" people and she has a overly protective family. To top it off, I don't even get to know what it "really" says on his arm.;)

2.) Bad dialogue and script: Irrational character behavior is expected on this show, so I can accept Jack getting pissed off with Cindy. Sawyer's "love" advice was creeping close to a mouth vomit moment. Kate's disgruntled-ness was laughable, though she was the only character to actually ask an "Other" a legitimate question. Tom/Zeke has gone from being a truly ominous "baddy" to a guy whose best come back is "don't throw stones in glass houses?" The "sheriff" had the best acting in the entire episode, too bad we'll have to wait another seven episodes to actually explore that character in depth.

3.) The big "three questions" dilemma. Does ABC promo department even watch these episodes before they air? Though, I can't truly let the crew at Lost headquarters skate that easy. Does the promo department at ABC not accept incoming phone calls? Is the guy with the "big, deep" voice locked in a bunker that has a reinforced blast door? It's not like these episodes are being handed in at the last minute... right? Isn't that why we waited through the three month hiatus? It seems as though the left had has not idea what the right one is doing.

4.) The musical score. I usually feel that the cinematography and score save this shows credibility on a week to week basis. However the "crescendo" at the end of this episode didn't come close to matching the on screen montage. So technically I'm not slamming the actual score. It would have been beautiful and reminiscent of "Deus Ex Machina," if there had been a story with any drama whatsoever to go along with it.

5.) Bad soap opera execution: This whole Alex/Carl romance is yet another sign that TPTB are now dictating which characters and which stories the audience should care about. The Alex character, up until episode 15 of last season, was a figment of Danielle's delirium. Since then we've seen her shoot a slingshot and we know that she thinks Ben is her dad. Carl had one conversation with Sawyer and then tried to make a break for it out of his cell. The next time I see him I find out he's Alex's soul mate and they have a backyard astronomy connection. Who cares!!? I'm barely interested in Jack, Sawyer and Kate as individuals let alone couples. Desmond and Penny, characters that I just met 10 episodes ago are now "central" to the whole show. Alex and Carl have shared all of three minutes of screen time and now I'm supposed to "root" for their burgeoning love? Give me some info any of these people and I might understand.

The Juliet/Jack thing is the only "will they/won't they" that makes any sense at all. I, the viewer, have actually been told a portion of Juliet's story. From what I know of her she and Jack share something in common, "they were both brought to the island." See that's how it works Ms. Sarnoff and Ms. Kim, you tell me about the characters and I might actually give a damn about what happens to them.

That episode was horrible to the point of being insulting. I don't know how they can offer this sort of crap up and expect people to keep tuning in. Utterly, utterly awful.

Maybe in Desmond's next time loop iteration he can warn ABC not to air it.

:rotflmao2: Omg, I snorted diet coke through my nose! :biglaugh:

This thread is more entertaining than the episode was. :helps:
:biggrin: :biggrin: :biggrin: I AGREE!!!! :biggrin: :biggrin: :biggrin:

Does anyone know if the writers, producers, or network people read these forums? Do they peek at the ratio of the Loved It and Hated It threads?
They will tell you that they don't read the board because of legal issues regarding intellectual property (for example, if someone proposed a plotline on the board and the writers admit to reading the board, and then that plotline shows up in the episode).

But I know for a fact that they DO read certain threads (like the Whispers thread) and I'd bet some heavy money that they read the Loved It and Didn't Love It threads since in interviews they seem to have an AMAZING grasp on what the audience is actually and very specifically saying about LOST. :drowsy:

The Season of Love: I had no problem with Love gaining more prominence during season 3 because I thought the LOST writers would make it ultra sleek and cool. However, it has become soapy and over the top. I honestly can’t stand it anymore. I used to enjoy the show cause it was a mixture of emotions, themes and tones (hope, mystery, survival, humor, etc.) and most were presented subtly or intelligently. Now it's trying to shove love down our throughts, and I'm gagging.

Was the montage at the end justified? The music seemed over the top, almost as if Giacchino was overcompensating, trying to squeeze out the last available emotional drops from an episode that was totally dry. Felt like Titanic but worse. Donnie Darko had a character montage at the end but it wasn't corny like this! And the crossfade scene between Juliet and Jack at the end (when he like moves his head back or something)… the nail on the coffin (for this episode at least). :mad:

I still can not understand how they could just drop the Black Rock storyline.

Even if a tsunami washed the "slave ship" ashore, it must have been 1,000s of miles off course. And what happened to the survivors. The story of the Black Rock clearly predates the "Others or Darhma." How could they just drop the Black Rock storyline.

Unless the writers were sitting around the table brainstorming about how to open the hatch and one said, "Let blow the door off." "That would make great TV," said another. "But where would they get the dynamite," said a third. "I know," said a fourth writer, "an old slave ship washed ashore onto the island and inside there is dynamite." "But won't the TV viewers want to know why the slave ship is on the island and what happened to everybody?", said the first writer. "Who cares," said the fourth writer, "in two weeks we will put some other outrageous thing on the show and everybody will forget about the Black Rock slave ship." "Great idea!," they all said.

Laughable. In the most unfunny way.

Jack's motivations all over the place and seemingly plucked from a tree outside his cage.
Kate reduced to yet more poor dialogue and frowns.
Sawyer on overload with his one liners
Not one sniff of last weeks main storyline - classic Lost.
A flashback that should see me taking out a lawsuit on the producers for about 20 minutes of my life that i want back.

I think i'm done.

So now we have a new Exhibit A in the case against the flashbacks. This one told us something the show has already told us many times--Jack is a Leader, but a Reluctant One, and O the Pain and Loneliness of the Reluctant Great Man. That point was first hammered home about Jack all the way back in episode 1.05.

But this flashback didn't just manage to waste 15 minutes or so on trodding over this familiar ground again; it also managed to remind us that Jack's a possessive stalker and the prototypical ugly American tourist. Other cultures and other peoples have their secrets and their beliefs, Jack, and you don't get to bull your way in or bounce some skinny little woman off the wall because your father didn't teach you to fly a kite. Or because of the sad, sad weight of your exceptionalness. And the flashback was also maddeningly without context. When exactly did Jack go to Thailand? Before or after his father killed the woman on the operating table? Why Thailand?

The flashback was so bad, and so maddeningly pointless, that it makes me hope that no character I like much, except for Juliet or Danielle, actually gets another flashback. Apparently the writers have nothing new to tell us about the original Losties. So stop trying. Those 15 minutes could have been better used on a beach subplot--does everyone know now about Desmond's precognition? How's Charlie handling the death threat? Anyone upset about Sayid losing that boat? Anyone combing through the remains of the Swan? Or how about showing us Juliet's trial? Was it real, or a con to get Jack to continue caring for Ben?

I realize not every episode's going to be great, and some are going to be just average. But Lost is coming off a disastrous 13-week hiatus, and this was the first episode with an original Lostie flashback in nearly four months. It's depressing that this is what we got. Personally I don't blame the ABC promo people. They're trying to get people to watch, and they know the one thing that viewers really want at this point are some answers. It's up to the people who make Lost to start serving some up. And answers to something a little more important than a fake translation for an actor's tattoo.

Definitely didn't hate it, but i didn't think it was the best ep i have seen either. I think they built it up too much as far as the mysteries will be solved thing going on all last week. I think if they had said nothing about the big revelations people would of been a bit more excited at what did happen. I was also a bit frustrated with the whole tattoo flashback thing, i really thought there would be more to it than that, although i liked the meaning behind it (which i definitely think will come back up). As many other people have said i'm sure it was also a bit too much like Titanic at the end lol.

On the plus side i thought the whole "sheriff" aspect was cool with them having their own set of laws so to speak. It was also cool to see the kids and Cindy even though they didnt really go anywhere with it like they could have. Sawyer cracked me up too as usual, punching Karl on the arm and the fact his little nicknames don't work on him either was hilarious. Overall not bad but not good either, just overhyped in my opinion..

Does anyone know if the writers, producers, or network people read these forums? Do they peek at the ratio of the Loved It and Hated It threads?
Why would they care about the ratio? As long as people post more than once in the threads, the ratios have no significance at all!

They will tell you that they don't read the board because of legal issues regarding intellectual property (for example, if someone proposed a plotline on the board and the writers admit to reading the board, and then that plotline shows up in the episode).

Uhm, that's exactly why posters are not allowed to post fanfic or threads asking other posters to come up with potential plotlines or similar... :confused:

Alex and Carl have shared all of three minutes of screen time and now I'm supposed to "root" for their burgeoning love?

Well ya know, that coveted 18-49 audience demographic - the vast majority of the show's audience - is supposed to give a care about teenage romance. I think?!

Uhm, that's exactly why posters are not allowed to post fanfic or threads asking other posters to come up with potential plotlines or similar... :confused:
Theories about future plotlines of LOST are all over this board - in the Theory forum, Spoiler forum, Ships area, Characters area, individual episode forums, etc etc etc.

A theory may only be presented as "wishful thinking" but it's still a creative possible direction for the show to follow. It doesn't have to have specific dialogue attached to be considered a plotline for a future epi. THAT'S what I meant about the legality issue of using "intellectual property" posted by members of the Fuselage.

Man, I love Entertainment Weekly, but they just can't seem to stop fawning over Lost. Has anyone read their review (http://www.ew.com/ew/article/0,,20012534,00.html) of this episode? Here's a snippet:
Did they watch the same show as us?

Well, this is another one of those cases that I was talking about last week that the online audience is in a completely different world than the off line audience. Everyone on here was fawning over Desmond's episode, but everyone I talked to off line hated it. :undecide: I was actually one of those people that thought it had potential, but that potential was never reached. The same thing happened this week. Matthew is one of my favorite actors and his character Jack is my favorite on Lost, but this episode missed the mark in more ways than one. Everyone on here is criticizing this episode up one end and down the other, but everyone I talk to off line either thought it was ok or liked it. If all of my friends were to come online and read all of this thread (as well as my responses) they wouldn't know what to think. They would literally react like this :eek2: because they didn't think the episode was as bad as all of us are making it out to be. One of my favorite lines from the Grinch is, one persons trash is another persons potpourri and I think it applies to these current episodes of Lost or rather season three in general lol. :biggrin:

Bleecck episode. Kind of grey and boring. Didn't hate it, but it didn't advance the story any at all. I can only hope it is setting up something bigger. The episode was even more of a dissapointment coming on the heels of the incredible Desmond epi "Flashes."

My husband and I had a conversation this week (before this lame-o epi) about Hero's and Lost. I don't like Hero's much because it is so violent and bloody. Though he loves Lost, he says Hero's is easy, and Lost is too cerebral, it makes him think too much. That's why I love this show so much, we get to think and dig and discover more than meets the eye if we care to hunt. This episode just didn't do it for me!

But I know for a fact that they DO read certain threads (like the Whispers thread) and I'd bet some heavy money that they read the Loved It and Didn't Love It threads since in interviews they seem to have an AMAZING grasp on what the audience is actually and very specifically saying about LOST. :drowsy:

But that's the thing, TPTB don't really seem to be in tune with what their audience desires. And I've said this twenty times, but if they are paying attention to us online fans, and not the bulk of the audience that doesn't come online, then they are making a mistake. Maybe that's why each week they lose millions of viewers. :unsure:

Well, this is another one of those cases that I was talking about last week that the online audience is in a completely different world than the off line audience. Everyone on here was fawning over Desmond's episode, but everyone I talked to off line hated it. :undecide: I was actually one of those people that thought it had potential, but that potential was never reached. The same thing happened this week. Matthew is one of my favorite actors and his character Jack is my favorite on Lost, but this episode missed the mark in more ways than one. Everyone on here is criticizing this episode up one end and down the other, but everyone I talk to online either thought it was ok or liked it. If all of my friends were to come online and read all of this thread (as well as my responses) they wouldn't know what to think. They would literally react like this :eek2: because they didn't think the episode was as bad as all of us are making it out to be. One of my favorite lines from the Grinch is, one persons trash is another persons potpourri and I think it applies to these current episodes of Lost or rather season three in general lol. :biggrin:

Krystal I'm starting to think you should have your own thread telling us what off line people you know think about Lost!! Very interesting and not surprising. This was definitely not an episode that appeals to a large chunk of the online crowd.

Bleecck episode. Kind of grey and boring. Didn't hate it, but it didn't advance the story any at all. I can only hope it is setting up something bigger. The episode was even more of a dissapointment coming on the heels of the incredible Desmond epi "Flashes."

My husband and I had a conversation this week (before this lame-o epi) about Hero's and Lost. I don't like Hero's much because it is so violent and bloody. Though he loves Lost, he says Hero's is easy, and Lost is too cerebral, it makes him think too much. That's why I love this show so much, we get to think and dig and discover more than meets the eye if we care to hunt. This episode just didn't do it for me!
But what are we digging for? We've been digging for 3 years on what the hatch painting is, yet do you see anything about that? The hatch blew up! Will we ever see anything about the painting now? There's no possible way. Maybe during a Desmond flashback, which would probably be 20 minutes of him pressing the button since nothing else happened down there while he was by himself. Grand,

Now we get do 'dig and discover' about some wanky possibility that Desmond Time Travelled? Well, that's spectacular. Why do we have to do this? Because the episode last week failed to conclude.
I'm big on the discovering, but the digging has proven to be a kick in the teeth inn the long run because, to be honest, there's not a great chance a lot of what we get googley eyed over means anything half important to what's most important on the show - what Jack and Kate (the most dysfunctional characters on the show) do.

Not to mention continuity doesn't exist nearly enough for a drama/mystery/adventure such as Lost. An amateurish feel is definitely present when constantly watching characters be re-created and overhauled each episode to simply fit the situation and plot-advancement requirements.

I know I sound negative, but I need to get this stuff out of my system every now and then.

I didn't hate this episode, but it was boring, as well as confusing (but then, confusion in this show is normal). Maybe it was boring because it was confusing....I just kind of tuned-out while watching because it didn't make any sense.

Actually, the commercials made more sense, and were more interesting, too.

Krystal I'm starting to think you should have your own thread telling us what off line people you know think about Lost!! Very interesting and not surprising. This was definitely not an episode that appeals to a large chunk of the online crowd.

I don't mean to insult anybody, because I peruse several threads, but I do see a pretty significant difference from those that post here to those that I talk to that never come online. The difference really is everywhere, at work, school, home, with friends, etc. I don't mean to generalize like I do sometimes, but it just "feels" a certain way. As far as the episode not pertaining to a large chunk of the online audience, well it's really hard to say. I know I've posted at least 10 times in the didn't love it thread and I know a few others that have posted multiply times as well. Who knows, if you count the members in the didn't love it thread to those in the loved it thread, they may actually come close to balancing each other.

My husband and I had a conversation this week (before this lame-o epi) about Hero's and Lost. I don't like Hero's much because it is so violent and bloody. Though he loves Lost, he says Hero's is easy, and Lost is too cerebral, it makes him think too much.


I keep asking myself if Lost so cerebral and intelligent, why do they make the characters such complete morons who lack basic common sense and can't ask a relevant question of anyone.

This notion that Lost is intelligent is way overblown. Lost has become just a sprawling mess of questions and when we do find out something it really doesn't make much sense.

But that's the thing, TPTB don't really seem to be in tune with what their audience desires. And I've said this twenty times, but if they are paying attention to us online fans, and not the bulk of the audience that doesn't come online, then they are making a mistake. Maybe that's why each week they lose millions of viewers. :unsure:
Oh no, I agree with you! That's why it baffles me to no end when they will refer to a specific theory or complaint among the board fans, sometimes even referencing certain threads, yet they continue to push drivel that we hate. They KNOW what we want but can't or won't give it to us. They say their hands are tied by the network and to some extent that may be true, but they've ruined what could have been the most amazing piece of television in the last 20 years by turning this show into something it was never intended to be. :frown:

This notion that Lost is intelligent is way overblown. Lost has become just a sprawling mess of questions and when we do find out something it really doesn't make much sense.

I agree. There are just way too many questions floating around and now people are just lost (pun intended). And someone else mentioned it on here earlier, but when a question is answered I don't want it in the form of presenting another question. :rolleyes: And it's not a case of the audience needing instant gratification or answers right away. It's just that we have waited two seasons for answers to some of the questions that were presented in season one. I don't think it's asking too much for some of those lingering questions from season one to be addressed and answered sufficiently. I think this show would really benefit if they cut the cast in half. Not only are they not going to do that though, they keep adding new characters to an already jam-packed ensemble. :whistling

I am so very tired of the Others. Remember back in the day when they were all creepy and mysterious? Remember when they walked by and made no sound? Remember when they were scary? Remember when there were whispers?

Well unfortunatly, TPTB do not. Lost Blows and and very very boring now. At best its a bad soap opera based on a pretty island.

I keep asking myself if Lost so cerebral and intelligent, why do they make the characters such complete morons who lack basic common sense and can't ask a relevant question of anyone.

This notion that Lost is intelligent is way overblown. Lost has become just a sprawling mess of questions and when we do find out something it really doesn't make much sense.


I understand your frustration and share it at times, but I am still hooked to this show and the questions. Though I am in my 40s I am a Harry Potter fan. It has been frustrating to me that from the beginning, some of the characters show no basic common sense--yeah, they're kids, but how old do you have to be to tell someone you trust the truth. My kids learned this as toddlers. In this series of books there are so many unanswered questions that I can't keep them all straight and forget the questions until someone else brings them up. That doesn't detract from the fascinating story Rowling is weaving. She should explain all of the questions in the finale. I am willing to wait until then to see the intricacies in the tapestry she has woven.

I guess I feel the same way about Lost. You bet it's frustrating that the characters don't talk to each other, show lack of common sense and sometimes basic decency. Things don't make sense and there are so many questions that you forget what they all are. But when all of the questions have been answered, the story and the fun will be over. I'm just not ready for that yet. It's too much fun right now to watch the story unfold and to try to connect the dots.

Personally, as long as TPTB give me some movement forward, I'm willing to put up with unanswered questions. I could just do without boring episodes like this one!

*
This isn't a summary of my thoughts. I didn't touch upon everything. I just whipped together some of the thoughts I had into this is a rough post.
----
Alex and Carl is stuffed into our faces. Why? We know nothing about them. How are we
possibly supposed to feel anything for them if we have no reason to? I could care less
if they break up - what's the significance? There is none yet. There may be in the
future, so don't stuff this stuff in our face now. It's taking up time that could be
used for something we've been invested in for 3.5 seasons. They'd be cute if TPTB would care to show us anything of them, but that's not the case.

---
Jack? Screaming, shouting, illogical. Sometimes the Jack version 1.7 pops in to say something nice and sensible, but then Jack version 2.3 pops in to yell at Cindy, tossing the writers a bone and more space for filler. Same deal with Kate
and, to some exent, Sawyer. These characters used to make sense, but now they've lost
themselves through the varying personalities each writer duo gives them. I'm confused as
to which version of each character I'm watching onscreen. The characters are constantly
becoming less and less believable and 'together'. None of them have any set of
characteristics any more and all of them are forced to spasm, shout, cry, not ask
questions, and be ridiculously skitsophrenic and indecisive.

I really don't care who dies at this point because I'm no longer invested in any of
them (except for Hurley and Locke, though I do expect that to change as well). Last
time I checked, dramas are the medium of upmost dedication towards making sure
character togetherness and continuity is existent.
An amateurish feel is definitely present when constantly watching characters be
re-created and overhauled each episode to simply fit the situation and plot-advancement
requirements.

I also find it hard to defend this show and say why I like it.
It's a mystery? Not really. It will be a real mystery show during 3-4 episodes a season.
Other then that, one could say it's the first 5 minutes of CSI for 18 episodes wihout the talking and
caring about the actual case.
There are ways to make the mysteries in this show constistent and gratifying, yet TPTB
simply make each mystery on-hit-wonder 'cameo' mysteries that won't make another
appearance unless it'll open up new ways Kate or Jack can do something stupid.
And about the questions. I am fine with getting answers slowly. But, you see, that's
not the case.
His tattoo? Why do we have to care about this? They have 2 seasons to wrap Lost up and
they want to waste time on a bloody tattoo?

Sawyer let Karl go. This is because the writers didn't want Karl say anything too big.
Tell us something. The writers have been stalling on everything since the beginning,
proving to us that the answer is either short-lived or doesn't even COVER half of the
mysteries on the island.

Once again, the characters get me so angry sometimes. This show has so much
potential, but TPTB constantly bring it down to some amateurish sloppy seemingly random
and spontanteous show. A "drama" (even though we all know it's not even a real drama, since
they tend to have one version of each character, not one for each different writer of
the show).

----
A brainwashing machine? This won't be talked about for another season, knowing how
'stellar' continuity and dialogue is in this show. Why should I think about this at
all?
The alarm sounds in the jungle and trees falling down? Great, 2.5 years later and none
of the characters ever really show any interest towards this other than in the episode
itself (for a total of one scene). Maybe they're too busy trying to find Sun's lost
wedding ring to care?
Fake beard? Kate won't tell anyone for 9 episodes, and nobody (including her) even used
the danged information for any good. Kate knew the others were frauds, yet brushed it
off and simply 'walked' into the trap. Smart girl - really someone I should give a
rat's tail about. I'm so gonna be sad if she dies, right?
Karl gets sent off with Sawyer and Kate. Wow! This opens up so many possibilities! This
show is really gonna take off, now! Oh.. but, wait... Sawyer just midlessly let him run
away. ****

So, a cool thing in the show - a fake beard - that gets you really excited and could mean so much for the losties
simply gets thrown away. Where have I seen this before?
Karl
Rousseau
Desmond
Notebooks
Cord
Boat
Canoe
Charlie's memory
Ethan
Sawyer's personality and traits
Kate's personality and traits
Jack's personality and traits
Locke's personality and traits
Jack's ability to ask questions
Well... everyones ability to ask questions or even ACT interested in a monster made of
smoke or a strange 'sickness'
Whispers
The others' perception of any possible reason as to WHY they're seen as brutal badguys
The brain of most every character
And much, much more.

Some of these are acceptable, but TPTB just don't know how to deal with thigns like
this effectively. You don't simply make Sawyer let Karl go or Rousseau dissappear into
the jungle. You ESPECIALLY don't do this to make way for 20 minutes of Sawyer doing yet
another con or Kate running in a flashback. I know 'making things happen' can be tough as a writer, but never has 'plot-device' been a trait I've placed on so many characters in a drama.

Additionally, flashbacks should never exhaust the episode - if it needs
to only be told during 5 minutes, then have it appear during a pivotal part of the
current protagonist's scene. Geeze.

----
Now we get do 'dig and discover' about some wanky possibility that Desmond Time
Travelled? Well, that's spectacular. Why do we have to do this? Because the episode
last week failed to conclude.
I'm big on the discovering, but most digging is a kick in the teeth in
the long run because, to be honest, there's not a great chance a lot of what we get
googley eyed over means anything half important to what's most important on the show -
what Jack and Kate (the most dysfunctional characters on the show) do.
Not to mention continuity doesn't exist; tragic for a drama/mystery/adventure
such as Lost.

When I watch this show, I constantly think "Ooh, that'll be
cool when it's revealed!"
Most of the things we see in LOST is somewhat artificially interesting and intriguing.
More than half the stuff we see in the show could be truly interesting and awesome, but
most of the stuff is simply unconclusive 'wow' factor stuff. We get interested in
mysteries because of what they could mean, not what they will mean. The writer's are
still depending on this wow factor and us loving strange things (things that we think
will tie-in with everything on a grand scale).
The answers. Well, the ''the others are modern people'' chunk of info was NOT brought
via hints and clues from season 2 (such as the fake beard). This was simply shown by a
truly spectacular scene from the first Season 3 episode. Still, that wasn't solving a
mystery, that was throwing away the clues the losties found and simply showing us an
unconnected answer. The 'answer' did not have a trail of clues, which makes me wonder
if I should give a rat's tail about alleged 'clues'.
The clues along the way won't really connect with the answer on a
problem-solving level - the show's characters aren't involved enough for things like
that. This doesn't equal mystery, this equals the viewers trying to uncover the mysteries while trying to endure the incredibly dense lead characters.

Maybe I'd care about half of the drama if it was interesting, but seeing character I
know nothing about do things isn't interesting. As if we don't have enough filler
characters as it is.
---
Plot devices
For plot purposes:
- If Charlie needs to get punched, by God Locke'll punch him.
- If Eko needs not be trusted, the by God Locke won't trust him.
- If the losties need to get captured, yet one of the losties knows for sure that it's
a trap, by God they'll forget they know the information and walk straight into the
trap.
- More examples that I'm too tired to type.

Now that I think of it, I don't think I need to make a list of the more 'petty' and
'insignificant' mysteries that won't ever be answered. The hatch painting? Who cares
about the hatch panting. Even 'asking' about the smoke monster? Bah, who cares! It's
only a monster made purely out of smoke. Kate's drama over her toy plane is so much
more vital and (*yawn*) exciting.
All I can really feel I should bother to 'invest' in is the mythology, and even THAT is
as wanky as the characters, especially because of TPTB's method of ''show something
cool, then forget about it for 25 episodes". No continuity or integrity at all. It
feels more amateur as each episode passes by.

Though I still love the show, I'm not too sure what I see in it that's so superiourly marvellous above other shows,
especially when talking to someone about it. It has a sense of long-term investment, but it doesn't seem as if the investment ever pays off. Want to get invested in a character? Don't! They'll never stay the same, they'll make decisions that are uncalled for, and they'll say things that totally make no sense for the character to say. You'll only end up scratching your head asking yourself what's going on with Kate/John/Jack/etc.

And I'm sorry for the weird text layout.

A brainwashing machine? This won't be talked about for another season, knowing how
'stellar' continuity and dialogue is in this show. Why should I think about this at all?



Among the things a normal human in this wierd life or death situation would have asked Carl is what was that thing you were hooked up to?

Sawyer seemed to think that machine was pretty incredible when he saw it. But later, sawyer sits down with Carl and talks about the Brady Bunch and gives relationship advice??!! No questions. Nothing. Well, actually Sawyer lets Carl go and asks nothing.

TPTB made Sawyer look like a complete idiot to serve their ridiculously unbelievable and contrived plotline.

Jack's flashbacks were utterly pointless IMO. Basically, it repeated the facts that a) Jack is a leader, a fact that was established since the very first season, and b) he has a thing for the ladies, which gives us an excuse for more Asian breasts.

Here's a larger question:

Several characters who were central to the show in season one are barely seen anymore. Sayid, Claire, Sun, Jin, Locke come to mind, and to a lesser extent Charlie and Hurley.

1) Will some of these actors get tired of their limited face time, and go onto better things?

2) Will the show, with declining ratings, be able to afford all these salaries (I believe the actors got raises every year)?

Sayid is wanting to leave the show because staying at Hawaii limits his opporunities to get parts for other movies/shows.

Anywho, I'm just not feeling that 'digging deep' and 'discovering things' is going to pay off. Barely anything we talk about for years and years gets put into the show again and, if the answer need arise, it'll be contrived and often not 'linked' to the clues presented.
For example, they need to answer the dissppearing bodies thing. I bet that, when/IF it does get answered, it won't be because anyone gives a rat's tail about the bodies. Where the answer SHOULD be originating from is the curiousity of the characters as well as us, not just us.
By the way, I ask you why should we give a darn about something that is only apparent once per season and not even talked about by anyone? Will the characters even care about the answer? They haven't cared about this mystery (and most every mystery on the island).
The only time someone said something about it was someone telling Eko the polar bears probably took Yemi's body away. Is this TPTB's way of 'letting this mystery get answered'? Or will we actually get an answer (out of nowhere, because there's no way the characters will even help answer a darned thing, let alone act half interested).

One of the only things the characters have answered themselves was "What's the question mark?". Even then, Locke was so obviously unrighteously out of character and a pure pain in the ankle to watch.

Sometimes I think good about the show, and sometimes I think bad. I figure I'm more logical and truthful when saying the bad parts of the show. LOST is just so sloppy and has no communication or correlation in it whatsoever - between the characters to other characters, between characters to the audience, and between the characters to the mysteries. Everything gets more contrived and 'pushed away'.
It's tragic the way TPTB lengthen the amount of time it takes to even 'mention' another mystery (via dialogue or events) is by butchering each character to the point that they're puppets. We USED to have a viable description for each characters, yet now they are undescribable. Not only does this make LOST amateurish and sloppy, but it ruins what it could've been. It shows us how much potential the show had versus what it is.

Well, here's to the odd show per season that has the real characters in it, not these season 2/3 character 'variations'.

I dont know what to say. It is very very sad & disappointing. I had expected Lost to resurrect itself after the mini-season diasaster. But this episode gives me a worst feeling that Lost is finally turning out to be a consistent bore.

How many times would the characters let go of the chance of asking questions? This seems absurd.
How long can we hold our patience? Its unfair to play with us only cuz they know we have invested so much time & cannot turn away from the series.

BAD! BAD!! BAD!!!

And I am awfully sad saying it.

It seems as if the losties are talking more to eachother this time around. I mean, Sawyer actually talked to Kate about his decision, Kate actually talked to Sawyer about getting Jack back. These dialogues, while under silly circumstances about silly contrived events, were refreshing. If Sawyer made a decision like that in Season 1 or 2, he would've just turned his cheek.

Also, you guys should check out the previews scene for the upcoming episode. It's a very good scene and I entice you to watch it, even if you aren't a spoiler kinda person (I'm not either, but it doesn't really have any spoilers in the scene whatsoever). Please, I entice you to read this because it may infuse hope in some of you.

Kate, Sayid, and Locke are talking and it's an incredibly logical conversation. Each character says everything they know on the subject of "Rescuing Jack", "Sawyer letting Karl go", "How/where the others live", and so forth.

Also Kate, Sayid, and Locke act as if Sawyer letting Karl go was stupid and they aren't sure why he'd possibly do it. Brilliant. At least they aren't letting Sawyer's contrived decision wash away like things in Seasons 1/2. Now, why does Jack still live by the motto "Do things that make me look silly".

But keep guard. Let's see if it goes anywhere. Is this good dialogue just a 'one-time-occurence'?
----
http://www.dharmasecrets.com/forum/i...ic,9877.0.html (http://www.dharmasecrets.com/forum/index.php/topic,9877.0.html)
(The second video is the one I'm talking about)


Now, if only this could happen between losties and other characters other than fellow survivors.
Also, this doesn't make the characters what they should be. They're still puppets, just ones that now know how to talk about a certain issue to eachother (which is good).
We'll see how often the writers decide to make the characters have a brain during conversations.

Here's to hope...

I thought this was a total waste of an hour.

I am starting to believe that the writers are making things up as they go along and never really had any idea of how they would explain was behind the island and why they were there.

The show is totally LOST to me now.

I keep asking myself if Lost so cerebral and intelligent, why do they make the characters such complete morons who lack basic common sense and can't ask a relevant question of anyone.

This notion that Lost is intelligent is way overblown. Lost has become just a sprawling mess of questions and when we do find out something it really doesn't make much sense.



I so agree with you. Lost being too cerebral was one of my complaints over the past 2 seasons. Come on, they are on an island, still living by the beach, in primitive fashion, how cerebral can that be, when the survivors are supposed to be trying to ick out a living surrounded by supposedly all sorts of danger. I personally think that cerebral is too ridiculous a word to use when it comes to this show. Most people I know that watch tv shows use it as a means of escapism, they don't watch it for complicated storylines. And if someone tells me that they should be watching shows like CSI, then what can I say for the fact that CSI is a top rated show. 24 is another one that keeps you hanging but they conclude some of the episodes with a resolution. Eventually the crisis gets resolved in the end. I don't watch Desperate Housewives, but my husband does and he has told me that the storylines do come to a conclusion. Why can't Lost do that? And I don't mean answer it with 20 more questions.

Jack's flashbacks were boring for me and that hasn't change with this episode. In fact i believe that this episode had the worst flashback of all. The rest of the episode wasn't THAT bad. Here's the two reasons that this episode sucked so bad for me.

1. The actress that plays the Tai girl has no acting skills whatsoever. She ruined every scene she was in. If she was supposed to be mysterious i failed to notice. I strongly believe that she is the main reason the flashback was so bad.

2. Whenever someone asked a question or said anything worth responding, the other either looked back shockingly in silence (ex Kate to Sawyers accusation), shouted his lungs out for no apparent reason (ex Jack to Cindy), answered in a mysterious way - almost as if he didn't answer (ex Carl "Better life than yours", Cindy "It's complicated") or just said something stupid and not relative (ex Tom "... rocks ... glass house...").

Btw i didn't watch the preview with the 3 questions answered hype you mentioned in here.

I would like to comment on the Alex-Carl relationship that... how many people in this word actually find a soul mate whom they love so much, enough to die for (Sawyer), wait 100 years for (Sayid, Pen), kill other people in cold blood(Sayid, Picket) and now Alex - Carl. It's nice to have romance, in fact i like it but come on!! It seems that every other person in this show is bound to have a loose thread of a soul mate waiting around the corner to show up any minute. Some people say that the show is becoming a soap opera... well let me enlighten you!! Soap operas are better in that department. If they want to focus on relationships, by all means do but not like this. Which relationship am i suppose to care if each one resembles the next.

I would like to comment on the Alex-Carl relationship that... how many people in this word actually find a soul mate whom they love so much, enough to die for (Sawyer), wait 100 years for (Sayid, Pen), kill other people in cold blood(Sayid, Picket) and now Alex - Carl. It's nice to have romance, in fact i like it but come on!! It seems that every other person in this show is bound to have a loose thread of a soul mate waiting around the corner to show up any minute. Some people say that the show is becoming a soap opera... well let me enlighten you!! Soap operas are better in that department. If they want to focus on relationships, by all means do but not like this. Which relationship am i suppose to care if each one resembles the next.

Well, I actually do find the Alex/Karl romance believable. They're TEENAGERS, and every teenager in love for the first time thinks it's never happened before in the history of the world. Particularly as two misfits in a tiny, isolated society, these two would feel their connection very intensely.

However, I have to say I feel nothing for Karl and I can't figure out why he deserves Alex, who really rocks--she's a great character! Either it's just because Karl's the only other person she's ever met who's around her own age, or Karl has unplumbed depths.

Much like the airplane, the shows going down in flames. The real mystery is weather there will be a season 4, and will there be an audience to watch it? IMHO No!!!!

IMO.........And I am not going to hold back here.........I thought this was the worst episode of Lost ever. It really didn't have a point to it.....especially when dealing with those 3 questions. What 3 were answered? Jack's tattoos.......that is what it says but it doesn't mean it, c'mon. The kids? Well what are they doing with them and why did they kidnap them? And the only 3rd one I could think of was where the others lived. We already knew that. Or was it the whole Sawyer/Kate/Jack triangle. This episode made me sooo mad. I had the stomach flu and thought I was a little out of it watching the episode, but I wasn't. I thought CC and DL said the hype concerning save the cheerleader.....lead up to nothing.......well that is exactly what this episode did. Lead up to a pile of poop sitting on your porch on fire. I am just so angry at the way this episode was portrayed and how it really turned out to be. And why was Jack in Thailand in the 1st place? And why did Bai's posse beat the crap out of him. Attrocious (sp?) is how I describe this episode. The 1st time ever I have never liked in some way an epi.

Bah, I was going to say something, but I'm pretty sure I've already said it. :)
Anyone read my posts? I mean, I know they're long, but it'd be nice to get some feedback on them. >.>

Much like the airplane, the shows going down in flames. The real mystery is weather there will be a season 4, and will there be an audience to watch it? IMHO No!!!!



It's too bad isn't it, a show that could have had so much potential is going down in flames. I like Jack, but in my opinion the flashback and I mean THE FLASHBACKS are used too much in the show. What was the point? Was it to show what the tattoo's meant. What about the children, so we get to see them and Cindy, why haven't they tried to escape? Are we supposed to feel sympathy for the others who in my opinion are responsible for kidnapping, attempted murder, and quite possibly even murder. I think not, I don't have any symphathy for the others at all.

Bah, I was going to say something, but I'm pretty sure I've already said it. :)
Anyone read my posts? I mean, I know they're long, but it'd be nice to get some feedback on them. >.>


I did read some of them and I agree with your points concerning continuity (sp?) errors, if that is what they are. Hopefully not, but if so, boy they have some explaining to do as to why that happened. I just hope (crossing my fingers) that this episode really wasn't as pointless as I think and other people think. Maybe in some weird, not beating around the bush way this episode does really mean something. But if not what a waste of production money, and so forth. But hopefully this mess of an epi has a point later down the road.

I did read some of them and I agree with your points concerning continuity (sp?) errors, if that is what they are. Hopefully not, but if so, boy they have some explaining to do as to why that happened. I just hope (crossing my fingers) that this episode really wasn't as pointless as I think and other people think. Maybe in some weird, not beating around the bush way this episode does really mean something. But if not what a waste of production money, and so forth. But hopefully this mess of an epi has a point later down the road.


I thought the same thing about 'F + W'. So, I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for that tohappen if I were you.

Just like many of you guys I am a huge Lost fan. But, lately, I am getting a bit tired. I am just not eager for the next weeks episode.

Well, its like, I will watch when it comes. I am not anticipating anything. All I wanna say has already been said here, like not asking questions, leaving half-baked stories, having irrelevant flashbacks, fillers & more fillers etc etc etc.

The horrible flashbacks of the likes of Jack & Kate make me wonder what we would get of the lesser cast. Come on guys, I mean we are in the third year. Any FB henceforth should only forward the story in some way or the other. I am certainly not interested to to know how Claire got hooked up with her High-school boyfriend who happens to be Locke's distant relative & how while in a session she fell & got a scratch on her bum.

Jack's tatoos were so hyped up when there was no frickin need for it. If the island mysteries are gonna be resolved in the same lame fashion as was the BIG MYSTERY of Jack's tatoo then I would rather that they dont resolve it at all.

[A deep, heavy-set voice resonates...]
"So thereafter, the beach folk endorsed Jack as their leader & Jack in turn accepted the others as their brethren & all these people lived happily ever after on the island that remained lost from the world forever."

Dont make me into a fool & punish me for having watched this show loyally for so long.

So, let's say this episode IS crap and the writers would like to do something about it. How far ahead are they in writing or pre-production? If ABC wanted to meddle (and I mean this in a positive way), when would we begin to see the effects? Are they anywhere near writing the finale?

LOST use to have such a hold on me! I guess them dropping the ball with this show is a plus for me, I'm getting work done on the computer instead of over analyzing every little thing.

I just don't understand why TPTB think we are going to sit and watch episode after episode of a group of people crashed on an island not communicate.
Everyone in the spoiler section knew that Karl would never make it back to the beach with Sawyer and Kate, because he would have to answer questions.

I'll keep watching LOST I guess, but it sure has become a disappointment.

Well, I actually do find the Alex/Karl romance believable. They're TEENAGERS, and every teenager in love for the first time thinks it's never happened before in the history of the world. Particularly as two misfits in a tiny, isolated society, these two would feel their connection very intensely.

However, I have to say I feel nothing for Karl and I can't figure out why he deserves Alex, who really rocks--she's a great character! Either it's just because Karl's the only other person she's ever met who's around her own age, or Karl has unplumbed depths.

I think the "Alex/Karl" relationship is a microcosm of what Lost has become overall. Alex is, on the surface, a very intriguing character. She's very mysterious in that we didn't know if she really existed or if Danielle had just imagined her. Now that we see she's been raised by Ben and the Others it adds another layer of intrigue.

But what do we really know about Alex as a character? She's appeared briefly in a few episodes. She helped Claire escape, but why? She holds resentment against Ben and the "family," but why? She's has really good "rock hurling" skills, but why? She's so completely enthralled with Carl that she's willing to risk her life and Kate and Sawyer's to free him. As mentioned above, why is Carl worthy of such an effort? We, the audience, know even less about him than we do Alex.

Yet we are given these visual cues, and overly dramatic music, to beat us over the head with the importance of their relationship. I know I'm repeating myself from earlier posts but Sawyers sudden affectionate "sit down" with Carl was completely out of character and nauseating. These examples again illustrate that the writers don't want to lay the groundwork for characters "actions," they just want the audience to accept their behavior and wait for the long-term "payoff." Which is essentially what we have to do with "mythos" part of the show as well. This has been a contention on this board since season one though. If we had realistically written characters the "glacier-paced" mysteries would be more bearable. Alas, we have neither.

So, let's say this episode IS crap and the writers would like to do something about it. How far ahead are they in writing or pre-production? If ABC wanted to meddle (and I mean this in a positive way), when would we begin to see the effects? Are they anywhere near writing the finale?
Gregg said they're filming the last quarter of Season 3's 16 episodes, so that'd be the last 4 episodes of the third season.

Why would they care about the ratio? As long as people post more than once in the threads, the ratios have no significance at all!

The ratio of posts between threads is 250 negative to 38 positive.

The 'rate this episode' thread counts close to 50 PERCENT of votes giving the episode a 5 or below.

Not to mention that the amount of actual posts and votings dropped tremendously since season 3 because people just can't bother to access this board anymore.

Seriously, Starrox, I know you want to defend the show, but if you are flying into the 'didn't love it' thread, most people in the thread want the show to get better. You're not going to tell us it's still as good as season 1, right?

I've had the impression for awhile now that TPTB are really out of touch with their audience, and after this episode I'm absolutely convinced of it. I don't want to offend them or anyone else, and this is just my opinion, but I think they have completely lost sight of why any of us fell in love with this show in the first place and the result is that they're coming at everything backwards. This results in a tail-wagging-the-dog effect and, frankly, I'm fed up with staring at the dog's rear end.

I LOVE the original characters that I crashed on this island with in the pilot episode. I feel for them, identify with them, root for them, and care about them and about THEIR well-being and prospects for survival/rescue. That's PARAMOUNT to me. I care about everything else only insofar as it affects/mystifies/threatens those characters. IMO, never, EVER losing sight of that should be the show's "Prime Directive". In fact, it should be the ONLY directive.

Yes, I'm intrigued by the spooky, dangerous and mysterious island because it's where my people live, because it contains threats to their very existence and mysteries they need to solve. I was captivated from the outset by the idea of solving them alongside the characters, almost like a shadow participant in a really cool video game being designed and played by the Lost team of writers, cast and crew. However, without its meaning to MY people, the island would be like a video game with no players. By itself, the island is just a landscape, not a show, and I wouldn't give a damn about it or about any of the peripheral characters on it. It's the interaction between my group of characters and the island that makes the island important to me, the interaction between my group and the Others that makes the Others important to me. I want to solve the riddles because they need to. The pivot and the POV is always my original group.

SOME new characters MAY become new members of my group, such as Danielle, Desmond and (long before I met her) Alex. Some never will, no matter how much the writers might want them to, and I put Ana and Libby in that category - Ana was unpalatable and Libby was bland and had no story. OTOH, Bernard had a free pass via Rose, and Eko had a potent redemption story.

We were told S3 would be about the Others, that the writers were aiming to change our perspective about them. I was up for that and open to the possibility that a couple of them might become new members of my group too. However, we are NINE episodes into the season, almost half way, and I STILL have no contextual basis on which to identify with or judge/categorize/evaluate the Others at all. None. (Except for Juliet, who may or may not become somebody I care about like my original group.) We already knew the Others were violent and barbaric. It turns out they had a better wardrobe than we thought. So what? Every week, I meet more and more of them and care less and less because I have NO CONTEXT for anything they're doing, no way to get a handle on who the hell they are and why they behave as they do. If TPTB want me to care or even be interested, I need CONTEXT, not this ridiculous evavisive and badly-written STALLING that I've been getting. I cared about the original Losties because I could easily identify with "crashed, stranded and scared". It's why I felt for Desmond and Danielle as well. I need the equivalent context for the Others, and all I've been getting instead is "Neener-neener, we know but we're not telling you." Pfft!

The question I want answered is what the hell makes them tick? And I'm more than fed up with everything about that being cloaked in mystery. THAT'S the least interesting thing about them to me because I neither know them as individuals nor give a crap about them as a group. What I do care about is how their problem or purpose or whatever-the-hell-it-is will affect/hurt/help MY GROUP. (Note: See Prime Directive.) THAT should have been the substance of the season, IMO. Instead, not only do I not know how my group will be affected, but half of MY GROUP have actually been bloody displaced from the show by this new and ever-increasing bunch of people that I'm learning nothing substantive about episode after episode. !!!!!!!

What were TPTB thinking? "Let's take our hit show, with characters people have come to love and replace about half of it with a different show, featuring a bunch of people the fans have barely seen and have reason NOT to like... and let's NOT tell them why they should care about these new people that have shoved their favorites right off the screen." Okaaaay. Is anybody unclear why it's not working very well? (Again, IMO.)

Last night's episode was horrible, even for what it tried to be. It was badly written, from start to finish and that led to stumbles in the directing and acting departments as well. (IMO) We were given no clue at what point in his life Jack decided to traipse off to Thailand to "find" himself and fly kites he couldn't build. I'm also curious who he supposedly honed his poker skills with, the kid on the beach or the skanky Thai girl with the "gift"? And speaking of Achara, the girl who supposedly sees "what people really are", I am so freakin' fed up with being TOLD by this show that Jack is a "leader" and a "great man". He did a noble thing in bargaining for Kate and Sawyer to get away, but since he knowingly led them into a trap without giving them vital information they had a right to in the first place, I figure he actually owed them a save if he could pull it off. And for the rest, Jack's supposed road to greatness seems to be paved with women he stalks, intimidates and yells at. It makes for a hell of an unappealing "hero". Color me turned off and continuously baffled by the choice of this unattractive character as the show's pivot point.

This episode also had some of the laziest writing I've seen on this show. Poor Sawyer had so many one-liners and nicknames that he seemed like a caricature of himself, and that's happened a LOT this season. He's a fascinating character, played by a charismatic actor... and both deserve better. Kate, OTOH, was all over the place and I kept getting pulled out of the story just wondering if poor Evi even knew what Kate was supposed to be feeling/thinking. I don't blame Evi, I blame the script which carried "opaque" to new lengths, even for this character on this show. MF and EM managed to pull off the aloe-treatment scene fairly well, but I can't name one other scene I thought was strong in the whole episode. That's a first because I think the show has benefited right from the start from some of the best acting on TV. It astonishes me that a show with one of the most talented, charismatic and purely WATCHABLE casts ever put together would choose to put half of them on the back burner, for ANY reason, much less do it for what amounts to virtually a third of a season!

That brings me to another big issue I think TPTB are off about, (again just IMHO), i.e. their rigid determination to hold on to a story-telling device that has needed to be re-thought for a year now, i.e. the character-centric flash-back in every episode. A seventh flashback about Jack was almost doomed by definition. Unfortunately, I feel as though TPTB have made the mandatory character-centric flashback into THEIR Prime Directive. I think this devices is holding the show hostage and strangling it at this point. While admitting, themselves, that's it's gotten tired, TPTB's "fix" for this is to bring in more new characters for whom they can write fresh, first-time flashbacks. Really? That's another case of the tail wagging the dog. The flashbacks are a storytelling device, and they should serve the story rather than the other way around. Sacrificing story to form, and replacing characters I love with new ones they refuse to give me context for or reasons to care about is taking them farther and farther away from MY Prime Directive all the time.

I guess I'm frustrated at the concept level now, not just with the execution. I feel as though TPTB have lost all sense of how to build "mystery and intrigue" into the show, so they're just making EVERYTHING a mystery to cover all their bases: who the Others are, where they came from; what their purpose is; why they're so violent but believe themselves to be "good"; who's the father of Sun's baby, whom Kate loves, why the Others are interested in children, the Black Rock, the "sickness" and on and on, ad infinitum. Frustration +++

Hence, and somewhat to my surprise, all the cutsie meta stuff in this episode just irritated the hell out of me, even though I know it was meant to amuse. I don't watch a lot of network television, and I certainly don't watch bad television. IMO this last episode was really bad television. The ONLY reason I'll be tuning back in next weeek is because - to quote myself -
I LOVE the original characters that I crashed on this island with in the pilot episode. I feel for them, identify with them, root for them, and care about them and about THEIR well-being and prospects for survival/rescue.

That's my rant. LOST, my Sweet, you have been absolutely awesome at times, but even the best foreplay leads to chafing if it's endless - you know? It's time to show me what else you've got before I get ticked off enough to kick you out of bed! :kiss:

We are nine episodes in, almost half way through the season, and I still have no idea what the Others are doing on the island, what their purpose or agenda is, and with every episode that passes I meet more and more of them and care less and less because I have NO CONTEXT for anything they're doing, no basis on which to get a sense of who the hell they are and why they behave as they do. If TPTB want me to care or even be interested, I need CONTEXT, not this ridiculous evavisive and badly-written STALLING that I've been getting. I cared about the original Losties because I could easily identify with "crashed, stranded and scared". It's why I felt for Desmond and Danielle as well. I need the equivalent context for the Others, and all I've been getting instead is "Neener-neener, we know but we're not telling you." Pfft!
Agreed!
I'm not sure how or why we are supposed to care.

TPTB - are you reading this? Get your PR guy/girl in here and make him read every last post about this issue. Yes, it's an issue that you guys need to fix. Someone's ruining Lost and it ain't us.