Okay, is this not the most overused phrase on The 'Lage? Seriously, everytime I read through the criticisms of the show someone has to say "This is the episode that Jumped the Shark" or "This is the last episode I'll ever watch." What's funny is this, I had a former employer who used to say, "I love it when a customer complains." I'd ask him why and he'd say, "Because they're giving you a chance to keep their business. The ones who aren't happy and don't complain tell you so with their feet. They leave and you never see them again."

Now I have two points. The first scene with Jack telling Ben, "You won't be disappointed for long," was my favorite single scene of the series. It actually turned me from hating Jack (which I pretty much have since he and Sayid torchered Sawyer) to actually cheering his self-righteous stubborn butt. The first episode of the S3 had me cautiously rooting for Jack and now I believe he's finally emerging as a true hero of the show.

Kate on the other hand is continually going down hill and I blame the writers for this one, because Evey has pretty much done the best she can with what she's given and what she's been given is the constant "damsel in distress" role. Grant it, I understand that the Others learned of her relationship to both Jack and Sawyer (remember "This is our island") and have used it against them, but Kate has pretty much allowed it. This is what the audience is saying to the writers "You made us like Kate because she was independent and mysterious, now she's just a trophy chick."

Sawyer, he was neutered because first he was out conned and then he was shown there was no hope. The cliffhanger, even if they escape, where do they go? Kate said she can't, but Jack doesn't know why she can't. If you "Jump the Shark" people missed that then your not as perceptive as you claim to be.

I agree that Eko's death, other than the fact that it was done in a very loving, respectful way to the character, was disappointing, but not because it was poorly handled. I now understand that it revealed that the "monster" is linked to the idea of redemption on the island and that each character has a choice with whether they choose to be redeemed or not. However, I do feel that this could have waited until Feb.

The other part of the cliffhanger...if they can't get off Alcatraz, maybe the Losties can get to them. It is possible that help is on the way.
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Bump...I think my title is misleading....

Yes - I agree!! The phrase "JUMPED THE SHARK" has JUMPED THE SHARK a LOOOOOOOOOOONG time ago!!

I think someone's going to jump over a DHARMA shark on the way off of Alcatraz!

The cliffhanger, even if they escape, where do they go? Kate said she can't, but Jack doesn't know why she can't. If you "Jump the Shark" people missed that then your not as perceptive as you claim to be.

Um.. Where do they go? To the sub. To the boat. To the armory. Jack's holding all the cards! Get all their guns, get on the sub/boat, head back to the mainland. What's to stop them?

Besides, we've known they are on another island for a few episodes now. It's not a cliffhanger if it's just the same problem that's existed for several episodes. And it's even less of a problem now that we know they have a sub and another boat, at the very least.

That's like saying this was a cliffhanger because ultimately they're still stuck on weirdo Island, even if they do make it back to the mainland. That's not a cliffhanger, it's the crux of the show.

No way in hell has Lost Jumped the Shark. However, the phrase "jumped the shark" certainly has.

I feel sorry for the writers because there is no way to maintain the bar that some of us have placed on them. For me, I thoroughly enjoyed tonight's episode.

You're right, your post is misleading. I don't think you meant to imply that the show has jumped the shark, but I can't quite make out what you meant to ask.

Either way, I'll be tuning in on February 7th.

Good point about a customer telling you that you've lost their business with their feet, not their mouth. I was thinking that I see this title in every episode. Personally, I think Lost is a long way from Jumping the Shark. If I ever feel that way, I just would stop watching and posting. End of story.

Um.. Where do they go? To the sub. To the boat. To the armory. Jack's holding all the cards! Get all their guns, get on the sub/boat, head back to the mainland. What's to stop them?

The key to Lost has always been "who knows what and when do they know it." Jack knows aobut the sub, Kate and Saywer don't. They know there is a boat, but where? Jack knows there's weapons, but he also knows Juliet wants Ben to die (or he thinks she does) so he'd risk putting everyone's cards on the table by going that route...possibly even the sub route. The boat would be the only thing they all know about that might be risked, but the only boat they know of is the one Michael left in because Jack doesn't know where Colleen was injured and even though Sawyer knows "We happened," (referring to Colleen's injury) there is doubt that "they" happened thanks to Alex's incursion.

Now take the amount of time it would take to get all that information across and to make decision and put it up against the ticking clock...one hour.
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You're right, your post is misleading. I don't think you meant to imply that the show has jumped the shark, but I can't quite make out what you meant to ask.

Read imaaronsmom's post, she got it. I'm basically saying, "Stop telling us the show 'jumped the shark' if you really believe it 'jumped the shark' and just stop watching/posting."

I believe if you have criticism of the show, be constructive with it, because other people actually get paid to write "slug lines" and they're not on the 'Lage.

The key to Lost has always been "who knows what and when do they know it." Jack knows aobut the sub, Kate and Saywer don't. They know there is a boat, but where? Jack knows there's weapons, but he also knows Juliet wants Ben to die (or he thinks she does) so he'd risk putting everyone's cards on the table by going that route...possibly even the sub route. The boat would be the only thing they all know about that might be risked, but the only boat they know of is the one Michael left in because Jack doesn't know where Colleen was injured and even though Sawyer knows "We happened," (referring to Colleen's injury) there is doubt that "they" happened thanks to Alex's incursion.

Now take the amount of time it would take to get all that information across and to make decision and put it up against the ticking clock...one hour.

Piece of cake:

Kate: "Jack, there's nowhere to run to, we're on a different island!!"
Jack (to Juliet): "How do we get off this island?"
Juliet: "We have a sub. And another boat, now, actually."
Jack (to Kate): "Take those guys' guns and have them bring you to the sub/boat. Get off the island. I'll be following shortly after I fix Ben up. Since I'll be the only one with a gun, I'll have no trouble escaping"

All of, what, 30 seconds?

And that was 1 hour to stitch up Ben's Kidney. Jack still has to remove the tumor, which isn't going to be a 15 minute procedure. So, in reality, they've got a WHOLE lot more time than an hour. At any given time, all Jack has to do is put the scalpal down and threaten to not remove the tumor. Until that tumor is out, Jack is holding all the cards.

I cant agree with ya more, i saw your post title and thought oh god another one.. then i read the post and thought that was exactly what i was thinkin hehe. jumping the shark is such a lame term no one is forcing anyone to watch it. To say "jumped the shark" is just pointless either your gonna watch or not and based on some of post counts of the folks on here i dont see any of them "jumping the fanship" any time soon. Seriously If they have a bad episode or a peak to them then so be it. I personally love this show, like no other show ive watched before, for them to "jump the shark" they would have to have david hasselhoff appear as "him" running up the beach to the lost camp and ask where is cj. I mean if theres an epi i dont like then i move on and wait for next week. I love the cliff hanger they left us with and cant wait for feb. Down with the shark!

p.s. look at it this way no matter what they do its still better then anything else on at that time slot..

Yes - I agree!! The phrase "JUMPED THE SHARK" has JUMPED THE SHARK a LOOOOOOOOOOONG time ago!!

I wholeheartedly agree. I am sooo sick of hearing that phrase and the whining that usually comes with it. :29:

I had a former employer who used to say, "I love it when a customer complains." I'd ask him why and he'd say, "Because they're giving you a chance to keep their business. The ones who aren't happy and don't complain tell you so with their feet. They leave and you never see them again."

Not to go off topic, but your former employer has it wrong. Most customers who complain are doing so because they think the world revolves around them, and nothing you can do, short of signing over the company, will appease them. They take their heads out of their butts long enough to let you know that you're losing their business, but not long enough to realize that they are the ones with the problem.

Okay, I'm stepping down off my soapbox... for now.

The key to Lost has always been "who knows what and when do they know it." Jack knows aobut the sub, Kate and Saywer don't. They know there is a boat, but where? Jack knows there's weapons, but he also knows Juliet wants Ben to die (or he thinks she does) so he'd risk putting everyone's cards on the table by going that route...possibly even the sub route. The boat would be the only thing they all know about that might be risked, but the only boat they know of is the one Michael left in because Jack doesn't know where Colleen was injured and even though Sawyer knows "We happened," (referring to Colleen's injury) there is doubt that "they" happened thanks to Alex's incursion.

Now take the amount of time it would take to get all that information across and to make decision and put it up against the ticking clock...one hour.
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Great post. You are absolutely right. There is no way for the writers to provide as much information as they do in every episode and expect to be able to translate that information to all the characters in a one hour period of time. Very true.

Read imaaronsmom's post, she got it. I'm basically saying, "Stop telling us the show 'jumped the shark' if you really believe it 'jumped the shark' and just stop watching/posting."

I believe if you have criticism of the show, be constructive with it, because other people actually get paid to write "slug lines" and they're not on the 'Lage.

Yeah, I got it now. For me, "jumping the shark" is when a show is so bad it's beyond fixing. No way is Lost even remotely close to that statement. Many of us LOVE Season Three. Lost doesn't always have fabulous episodes, but I have to say that most of them are way above average. That's pretty darn good.

yeah the people who whine about the show should just get a life its so annoying to hear them complaining.:rolleyes:

Originally Posted by GettinLost
Yes - I agree!! The phrase "JUMPED THE SHARK" has JUMPED THE SHARK a LOOOOOOOOOOONG time ago!!

Yep, I'm posting just to say "Me too!" Find another phrase, get creative! The "jumped the shark" people always say the writers aren't creative, but they just use the same poor phrase, week after week.
I'm sooooooo tired of that phrase; talk about being overused.

For me, "jumping the shark" is when a show is so bad it's beyond fixing. No way is Lost even remotely close to that statement. Many of us LOVE Season Three. Lost doesn't always have fabulous episodes, but I have to say that most of them are way above average.
Perfectly said, Maxum! The only way I'd stop watching is if it went the way of "Twin Peaks" and I don't see that ever happening. Now, Twin Peaks got BAD, and how often can that happen again? lol

i didnt read this thread so apologies but
here is what jumping the shark actually was
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MpraJYnbVtE

I cant agree with ya more, i saw your post title and thought oh god another one.. then i read the post and thought that was exactly what i was thinkin hehe. jumping the shark is such a lame term no one is forcing anyone to watch it. To say "jumped the shark" is just pointless either your gonna watch or not and based on some of post counts of the folks on here i dont see any of them "jumping the fanship" any time soon. Seriously If they have a bad episode or a peak to them then so be it. I personally love this show, like no other show ive watched before, for them to "jump the shark" they would have to have david hasselhoff appear as "him" running up the beach to the lost camp and ask where is cj. I mean if theres an epi i dont like then i move on and wait for next week. I love the cliff hanger they left us with and cant wait for feb. Down with the shark!

p.s. look at it this way no matter what they do its still better then anything else on at that time slot..

Totally agree. :clapping:

Do you realize how hypocritical it is to complain that a specific phrase is overused, yet there it is sitting in your subject title!

Hint: The ugly phrase might go away if you (and everyone else here) actually stop using it.

The irony in that phrase is that even after that infamous scene, Happy Days still continued to be a successful series - they cranked out 100 more episodes AFTER the fact (per Wikipedia ... and, I recall Henry Winkler mentioning this same fact in a recent appearance on Adam Carolla's morning radio show).

With that said, LOST would be lucky that it "jumped the shark". :D

This whole thread just seems like a thinly-veiled attack against posters who are disappointed in the show as of late.

But to each their own.

And it's even less of a problem now that we know they have a sub and another boat, at the very least.
Pardon my ignorance, please, but how do we KNOW the Others have a sub??? I realize they have Desmond's sailboat, but a submarine? When was that shown? I'm confused.... :confused: :undecide:

Piece of cake:

Kate: "Jack, there's nowhere to run to, we're on a different island!!"
Jack (to Juliet): "How do we get off this island?"
Juliet: "We have a sub. And another boat, now, actually."
Jack (to Kate): "Take those guys' guns and have them bring you to the sub/boat. Get off the island. I'll be following shortly after I fix Ben up. Since I'll be the only one with a gun, I'll have no trouble escaping"


Now why exactly would Juliet cooperate? Didn't she show Jack a tape saying she's part of a group that wants Ben dead?

Cake got ate.
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This whole thread just seems like a thinly-veiled attack against posters who are disappointed in the show as of late.

But to each their own.
:hypocrit:

This whole thread just seems like a thinly-veiled attack against posters who are disappointed in the show as of late.

But to each their own.I wouldnt say its against poster's who are disappointed in the show directly but more to the point that they come here and say that phrase that's so patentedly overused and on top of it used in the wrong context. To say a show has JTS mean's its reached it's peak and can only possibly get worse from there on out. To say that about lost is utterly rediculous imo, sure you may think the show is going downhill but if it has gotten soo bad then why bother to take the time to come here and comment on it as opposed to say just stop watching it. You turn on the channel when its on if it is soo disappointing why come to a fansite and tell us faithful watchers how badly the show we love sucks? I dont think ive been disappointed in a single episode yet while one may not be as awe inspiring as another to say the show has reached it's peak is the very ideal of jumping the shark.

Apparantly "Jumping the Shark" isn't such a bad thing. I've seen a lot of people who claimed that LOST did that a season ago who still are watching and still post. Honestly, I had never heard the term until I started checking out this site and the actual reference is funny.

I don't honestly think the creators/writers/producers would let this show fly off the chain. As much as we enjoy it, I'm sure they are 10x more passionate about it and they don't want it to get all retarded. We may not all agree on the direction it has taken, myself included at times, but it has not gone so far off the mark that I have lost hope.

The worst thing about it all is that after every episode here on out, there's going to be a thread about it. Some people are so eager to see everyone here turn against the show. :rolleyes:
They can hardly do anything on the show anymore without someone saying, "OMG, they've JUMPED THE SHARK this time!"
It's like an epidemic now. (I really really really hate that saying too!)

I am SO happy to see this thread!! I hate that term too. I hate even more that it has been applied to Lost. This show was great from the pilot on. I don't understand why people have been saying otherwise.

Hey y'all,

I completely agree with the folks in this thread who can't stand the term "jumped the shark". I was just rantin' to a friend of mine last week about how much I despise that phrase. Granted, there have been episodes that didn't wow me. That happens in every show. Were they bad episodes? Nope, they were entertainin', just didn't have that flair that I feel others do.

In closin', I really don't see how anyone can make the assertion that the show has or has not gone down hill at this point. You can't really do so, in my opinion, until the show is over and you can look back on it. Enjoy it. Have fun. If you're not enjoyin' it then pick up the controller and change the channel. Ain't nobody gonna put a gun to your head and force ya to watch it.

Okay, is this not the most overused phrase on The 'Lage? Seriously, everytime I read through the criticisms of the show someone has to say "This is the episode that Jumped the Shark" or "This is the last episode I'll ever watch." What's funny is this, I had a former employer who used to say, "I love it when a customer complains." I'd ask him why and he'd say, "Because they're giving you a chance to keep their business. The ones who aren't happy and don't complain tell you so with their feet. They leave and you never see them again."
.

Its not only the most overused phrase here but also in the whole universe. Time for a new soundbite. Its getting really tiresome to hear ppl rattling it off every time they're unhappy with the storyline. Or with their favorite characters. get with it unhappies....love it or leave it. Yeah and what about their threats of never watching Lost again? wow that makes my psyche go all crazy. Even the writers have said over & over that they can't please everyone. They're aware of the unhappies but after all it is their plan & their show.

Yeah, the jump the sharl thing bothers me as well.

You know what I think? I think a lot of people sort of like seeing failure, and so they're looking for that moment when they can say, a-ha! Lost has really gone off the deep end! It's all over now!

I'm not saying it's all people, but some people.

This whole thread just seems like a thinly-veiled attack against posters who are disappointed in the show as of late.

But to each their own.

That's not my intention at all.

I actually look at this thread as a means to celebrate the show and this season. I guess what I'm saying in response to some of the negative postings I've read is that this season has NOT been bad. I don't even feel it's been disappointing. The writers devoted six episodes to some fabulous character driven storylines, and put the island mysteries and action adventure stuff on the back burner for this mini-arc. And I think that's what has aggravated some viewers.

I have no doubt that the episodes coming in February will be wonderful, mostly because I've enjoyed what I've seen so far. Is it perfect, flawless, beyond improvement? Of course not, but it was thoroughly entertaining, answered some questions, raised more mysteries, and the acting and performances (as always) have been wonderful.

i enjoy reading posts where fans claim the show
"jumpd the shak" and vow never to watch again/ but i always see their posts here one week later. you cant jump the shark with a show like lost, there are clearly no boundries to this show, and the term is useless.

I think each person has their own personal jump the shark moment. What might kill the show for one wouldn't even phase someone else.

Some were upset that the others weren't aliens. To show them living in comfort in otherville was a 'jump the shark' for them. Some hate the emphasis on relationships-the shark 'jumped ' for them when focus taken off the mysteries. I think that is why you see so many 'jumped the shark' threads each week after episodes.

Its not one definitive moment, its not the same for everyone...its highly subjective.

That's not my intention at all.

I actually look at this thread as a means to celebrate the show and this season. I guess what I'm saying in response to some of the negative postings I've read is that this season has NOT been bad. I don't even feel it's been disappointing. The writers devoted six episodes to some fabulous character driven storylines, and put the island mysteries and action adventure stuff on the back burner for this mini-arc. And I think that's what has aggravated some viewers.

I have no doubt that the episodes coming in February will be wonderful, mostly because I've enjoyed what I've seen so far. Is it perfect, flawless, beyond improvement? Of course not, but it was thoroughly entertaining, answered some questions, raised more mysteries, and the acting and performances (as always) have been wonderful.

Maybe I shouldn't have said the whole thread. I completely understood what you were saying in the original post. :)

My comment was aimed more toward some of the responses that came afterward. Same ol' boring drivel. :drowsy:

The whole "Jump the Shark" phrase has lost its original meaning. The original term was started when the show Happy Days was losing viewers and, in order to try and increase the number of viewers, the writers came up with the idea for the Fonz to 'jump a shark' while waterskiiing. Thinking that this interesting plot event would draw viewers back to the show.

So, the term was coined for any show whose rating started to suffer and the producers tried to pull some gimmick to draw viewers back again (introducing a new character, chaning the shows location, giving a main character superpowes (heh)); basically anything to try and increase interest in their show again.

However, these days, people use the term "jump the shark" to denote almost anything that they do not like on a show :undecide: No longer does the term refer to a show's producer trying to add a gimmick to increase ratings; now it is used to denote almost anything negative about a show.

Some people just like to complain. ;)

Now why exactly would Juliet cooperate? Didn't she show Jack a tape saying she's part of a group that wants Ben dead?

Cake got ate.

No, cake is still there. Juliet cooperates because Jack has a gun now, coupled with the fact that as long as Juliet can't reveal her ulterior motives (meaning, as long as she stil has to hide her desire to see Ben dead, which she would if there are still supporters of Ben in the group), she can't show her hand and must cooperate.

So Jack can have Kate and Sawyer get the guns, disarm everyone, lock them all in the cages - no 'cooperation' necessary from Juliet to at least get that far. Once all of the others are locked up, and Jack, Kate and Sawyer have all the guns, they can take their sweet time finding the sub or the boat, even if Juliet never tells them about either one. They'll find it eventually.

And once they've got the others locked up, they can put the pressure on them to tell them how they communicate with the outside world, and send for rescue.

Jack is in a complete position of power, he is holding all of the cards. What is to stop him?

Regading the question another poster had about the sub - it was directly referenced on screen a few episodes back in dialogue - "The sub is back". Also referenced in an earlier episode as "the galaga". Besides, how else did they get back and forth to the mainland. There HAS to be another form of transportation, in addition to Desmond's boat. They didn't all swim over to the mainland.

And for the record, I've never said this show has jumped the shark. I'm a very harsh critic, and I have really disliked this season so far, but I don't think the show has gotten to the point for me that it is unsalvagable. I think it's unlikely that the writers will save it, but I don't think it's unsave-able. I just don't thing anyone's going to save it.

Brock, you make an exellent point. With a show so varied, there is really no formula from which one can claim it has deviated.

:hesaid: :shesaid: about the particular phrase in question...I have no problem with people who want to say "okay this particular thing TICKED me OFF" but that stupid phrase is getting SO OLD....okay people can we come up with a new one??

No, cake is still there. Juliet cooperates because Jack has a gun now, coupled with the fact that as long as Juliet can't reveal her ulterior motives (meaning, as long as she stil has to hide her desire to see Ben dead, which she would if there are still supporters of Ben in the group), she can't show her hand and must cooperate.

So Jack can have Kate and Sawyer get the guns, disarm everyone, lock them all in the cages - no 'cooperation' necessary from Juliet to at least get that far. Once all of the others are locked up, and Jack, Kate and Sawyer have all the guns, they can take their sweet time finding the sub or the boat, even if Juliet never tells them about either one. They'll find it eventually.

And once they've got the others locked up, they can put the pressure on them to tell them how they communicate with the outside world, and send for rescue.

Jack is in a complete position of power, he is holding all of the cards. What is to stop him?

Regading the question another poster had about the sub - it was directly referenced on screen a few episodes back in dialogue - "The sub is back". Also referenced in an earlier episode as "the galaga". Besides, how else did they get back and forth to the mainland. There HAS to be another form of transportation, in addition to Desmond's boat. They didn't all swim over to the mainland.

And for the record, I've never said this show has jumped the shark. I'm a very harsh critic, and I have really disliked this season so far, but I don't think the show has gotten to the point for me that it is unsalvagable. I think it's unlikely that the writers will save it, but I don't think it's unsave-able. I just don't thing anyone's going to save it.
Jack takes the gambit, goes for the whole enchilada and has Kate and Sawyer go after the guns, thus effectively taking out ALL of the others, completely stripping them of their current power...you think Juliet's going to keep her cards hid? Jack doesn't know for certain whehter or not Juliet cares if Ben dies or who all is on Juliet's side, right now, as long as he doesn't completely push the issue he play that to his advantage (as he currently is) but the moment he presses it beyond the breaking point they cut their losses and take him down.
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Some people just like to complain. ;)

And there in lies my whole point. How many of these people, screaming JTS, have ever created something for someone else,s pleasure? I wrote a story in my creative writing class and we workshopped it yesterday. Overwhelming the majority of peole loved it. I think I've got three "actual" fans from what I wrote, but of course, I heard one person clearly say, "I don't like it." Now, every criticism I got in that workshop was valid, but I only listened to those who had someting constructive to add and used it in my rewrite. The people who simply didn't like it, well, I'm not writing for them.:undecide:

...Read imaaronsmom's post, she got it. I'm basically saying, "Stop telling us the show 'jumped the shark' if you really believe it 'jumped the shark' and just stop watching/posting."

I believe if you have criticism of the show, be constructive with it, because other people actually get paid to write "slug lines" and they're not on the 'Lage.


Amen!!!!!!! I am really getting sick of the "jump the shark" stuff. Everyone says they want a show where they are on the edge of their seats but when they get a show like that, they criticize and say the shark's been jumped.
Complex characters who aren't who they seem to be on the surface (which actually makes the viewer have to use discernment as they figure these characters out), plot twists we think we see coming and that then veer off in a direction we never even thought of and natural and supernatural mysteries aren't jumping sharks as far as storytelling goes. In this age of instant gratification, fast food, reality shows where we see the "winner" a mile away, this show is an anomaly. Jumping the shark means you have run out of ideas for the show and the characters or that you are pandering to keep the ratings up instead of trusting your audience. It's like a good book you read as a child or young person that you never want to end. You always want to know what happens next.
As you might be able to tell, I love the show and highly respect the writers who are juggling an enormous cast and still trying to keep the story moving in one direction and incorporate as many of those characters as possible. Some of our favorites aren't in every show and that's unfortunate. But, the writers know where they're going and we don't. We're just along for the ride and so far? HooooooHeeeeeeeeee! What a ride it's been and I can't wait to get back on! :biggrin: