Aopologies if this should belong into the "Deus Ex Machina" forum.

Anthony Cooper's plot to trick his son into donating him his kidney makes about as much sense as Ben's plan for Jack.

Like, he could have approached his son, said "I think I'm your father. I finally found you, and I could need your kidney." Knowing Locke, he would have said yes. Why the elaborate plan with his mom stalking on him, telling him an absurd story, having Locke hire a private investigator, then going hunting together and finally having Locke "accidentally" stumble across his old man's health situation?

I mean, sure it's a con, but the point of a con is tot rick someone into doing something they wouldn't have done otherwise, but believe to be their idea as part of the con. Now, Locke WOULD have happily donated his kidney to his old man if only because his old man seeked him out, thereby showing initiative on his behalf. Why the elaborate con? It just makes no sense.

Likewise, WHY did he abandon his son afterwards? It's not like Locke would have ultimately turned on him and sued him for stealing his kidney, had Cooper just occasionally spent a wekend with him. It's just pointless cruelty for no apparent reason.

It's the same behavior Ben displays. We're actually supposed to believe all the plotting was just to lure Jack into removing his tumor? Why not just be honest? Well, at least with the Others, there may still be ulterior motives involved. With Cooper, it's not only needlessly cruel, but also a waste of resources. If you need your son's kidney, just ask him, don't play stupid games on him.

Wow, it's an interesting parallel.

Cooper could also have BOUGHT John Locke's kidney with less investment of time and hassle.

Great theory...I think that Ben did just what Lockes father did to him......this is really cool stuff!!!!

OMG! Do NOT get me started on Anthony Cooper! I'm actually working on some FB fics based on the FBs we've seen on Locke. And I'm working on "DEM" now. Grrrrrr! Anthony makes me so angry!!!!!

I also have to wonder. Did Anthony even THINK that John wouldn't want to continue a father/son relationship after all that???? He's not a very smart man.

OMG! Do NOT get me started on Anthony Cooper! I'm actually working on some FB fics based on the FBs we've seen on Locke. And I'm working on "DEM" now. Grrrrrr! Anthony makes me so angry!!!!!

I also have to wonder. Did Anthony even THINK that John wouldn't want to continue a father/son relationship after all that???? He's not a very smart man.

Well. When he made that "retirement con" he put his faith in John's wish to continue the relationship... I mean what other reason would he have to help out the man who cheated him in the worst possible way? It was his only bet, and he won, again. He is not dumb. And something tells me we didn't see the last of him... he will always know how to exploit John's weakness again, and again, and again... without giving anything in return. :mad:

Yes, but Anthony didn't know when he stole Locke's kidney, that'd he'd need Locke again. It was only after DEM that Locke started stalking Anthony and then that &^@# used him again!

Oh, that's what you meant. You're right about that. I don't believe he gave a second thought about what will happen after the operation. He just didn't give a dry fig for what will happen to John.

Perhaps Cooper's cruelty was part of a 'deconstruction' job on John - that would certainly be Other type behaviour as seen of late: destroy - then rebuild as you wish.

Or the exercise was John's manipulation, rather than the easy route acquisition of his (possibly super-organ lol - if anyone knows they aint tellin' ) kidney.

Just tossin' some ideas around here. :) Good to see Anthony being discussed though. What a terrific performance we get from Kevin Tigue every time.

Perhaps Cooper's cruelty was part of a 'deconstruction' job on John - that would certainly be Other type behaviour as seen of late: destroy - then rebuild as you wish.

Wow, what an interesting concept! But I wouldn't apply it to Cooper... I didn't find him that elaborate. He needed something, he used his skills to get it. Very Sawyer-like, IMO, not that much of an other... His mind is a bit more twisted, that's all.

:) Good to see Anthony being discussed though. What a terrific performance we get from Kevin Tigue every time.

Very true that.;)

Wow, I haven't really thought about this. It does seem totally contrived and unnecessary, even with the Others way of doing things. Will we ever find out why, if there's even a reason? Maybe Anthony just did it for sport, for that feeling of totally screwing someone over, or just to keep his conning skills exercised. This only excaberates the 'real Sawyer' theory everyone's talking about.


But I also have a feeling this might be better explained in Locke's big upcoming episode.

I hope so, Distress. I wouldn't be surprised if Anthony is indeed the real Sawyer and is also the man from Tallahassee.

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.

I think I might have been on to something there.

Yeah , the ridiculously complicated cons are great to watch and fun to see, but realistically a lot of effort for the gain received. I guess its just their styles of operation. Some people are very straight forward while others are manipulative and sneaky as a snake.

I thought I hated Anthony before TMFT but now I despise that evil, evil, evil man!

Here's an "out there" question.... and forgive me if it has already been covered elsewhere... have we seen actual incontrovertable proof that Cooper is indeed Locke's biological father? Because if he isn't (maybe just has same blood type, etc.) then that may explain the complicated con to get the kidney.

Kind of a long shot, I know....

I am waiting for Locke to say Cooper take off your shirt.
Statements by people that Lostees think or thought were their father
Sam to Kate I didn't have murder in my heart
Cooper to Locke about the widows son I am not a murderer

Here's an "out there" question.... and forgive me if it has already been covered elsewhere... have we seen actual incontrovertable proof that Cooper is indeed Locke's biological father? Because if he isn't (maybe just has same blood type, etc.) then that may explain the complicated con to get the kidney.

Kind of a long shot, I know....

The PI showed proof that those were Locke's real parents. Of course, as some have speculated, it's always possible that Anthony paid off the PI. However, I really think if he wasn't Locke's real father, he would have told him so to get Locke to leave him alone.

I am waiting for Locke to say Cooper take off your shirt.

Heh. That would be interesting. And Locke reaction if Anthony didn't have a scar...:eek2:

Cooper to Locke about the widows son I am not a murderer

Yeah, right!:mad:

If, as Peter claims, he traced John through records of Cooper's kidney transplant;

wouldn't it have stated the donor were familial?

Peter initialy took John for a friend of Cooper's, nothing more.

Cooper's medical records as accessed by Peter Talbot do not support John being his biological son.

I wasn't talking about the PI who helped Peter. I was talking about the person Locke hired, when Emily first approached him.

Wasn't Peter aware that Anthony had used an alias? Wouldn't that have been enough to tell him that something was up with this man?

If, as Peter claims, he traced John through records of Cooper's kidney transplant;

wouldn't it have stated the donor were familial?

Peter initialy took John for a friend of Cooper's, nothing more.

Cooper's medical records as accessed by Peter Talbot do not support John being his biological son.
Good points. The cops and Peter seemed so staged. Cooper was drinking scotch before 'the tranplant' and after. I think it was to re-enforce the false notion that Cooper got his kidney. Like Ben saying a surgeon 'fell from the sky'

What do you mean the cops and Peter seemed staged? And I don't remember seeing Anthony drinking scotch either of those times. When you said after the surgery, do you mean when Locke went to see confront him about Peter and his mother?

What do you mean the cops and Peter seemed staged? And I don't remember seeing Anthony drinking scotch either of those times. When you said after the surgery, do you mean when Locke went to see confront him about Peter and his mother?
Back on the estate where they went bird hunting, and yes when he confronts about Peter. Another possible drinking occasion could have been in Christians hotel room in Oz.
Of course all interaction in the 'real' world between Lostees and paladins/gatherers/recruiters is staged. Usually there is more effort put into making it seem real and possible. Even Locke in the 'hospital', there was no hospital backround noise, like paging Dr Somebody seemed off. Compare with Claire's mothers hospital.
I just don't know if Cooper is an Other or an OO other Other

I'm assuming that someone who has a kidney transplant shouldn't drink. However, maybe Anthony lived in the fast lane and didn't really care.

Anthony Cooper's plot to trick his son into donating him his kidney makes about as much sense as Ben's plan for Jack.

Like, he could have approached his son, said "I think I'm your father. I finally found you, and I could need your kidney." Knowing Locke, he would have said yes. Why the elaborate plan with his mom stalking on him, telling him an absurd story, having Locke hire a private investigator, then going hunting together and finally having Locke "accidentally" stumble across his old man's health situation?

I think it makes total sense. Cooper would find Locke and say, "hey, after 50 years of searching a finally found you, and I happen to need your kidney?" No way. The only reason Coopers abandonment of Locke was exusable is because he claimed to never have known he existed. If at any point he had seemed to have alterior motives, Locke would have become suspicious. Same with the long con -- that's why it needed to be Locke's idea. He wouldn't have done it for money either.