It just occurred to me that we never did see , what Kate and Ben discuss over breakfast table, in "A Tale of Two Cities". The last thing Ben said to Kate was , " Kate, the next two weeks are going to be very unpleasant. We never did find out why he said the next two weeks. Like the unpleasantness was only going to last two weeks. Do you think that perhaps they let Kate and Sawyer go on purpose, in order for t Kate to return with Sayid and Locke?
We know that the others are like to make deals. They made a deal with Michael, in exchange for his freedom,and his son. They made a deal with Jack, for Kate and Sawyer's freedom, and they made a deal with Juliet. So, I can see Ben making a deal with Kate. When the others sent Michael to rescue Ben, he was told to bring back Kate, Sawyer and Jack. While we still do not know , exactly why the others wanted Kate, Sawyer , and Jack ( Jack was needed to do surgery on Ben), we do know that they are the strongest of the flight 815,or rather leaders on the island. Now Kate is going to rescue Jack,and she is bringing along Sayid ,Locke and Danielle . All three are the next strongest in the group.:eek2: Could Kate be unintentionally, or intentionally leading the Sayid, Locke , and Danielle into a trap? Considering that we do not know what transcribe over the breakfast table between Ben and Kate, and considering that the others are in the habit of making deals, do you think that Kate might have made a deal with the others to bring back Sayid,Locke, and Danielle?

Note: Kate never once mention to Sawyer that Alex might have been Danielle's child, yet she goes to find Danielle to tell her that she found Alex.Hmm?

YES ABSOLUTELY!

I am convinced although no one else agrees that Kate is an OTHER!

This "Two Weeks" is really going to come into play..and it could be very soon and it could very well be Kate...I hope that they string together a strong few epis after tonight.

This will be interesting to watch.

Unless you mean she's been brainwashed or replaced somehow since they've been there, Kate can't be an Other. She was on the plane.

You sure do make a very good argument, but I'm still not buying it. I could see why they'd want Sayid and Locke though. Sayid because he is very smart, tough, military experience, and for revenge for what he did to Ben. Locke because he knows how to survive, and because Ben originally came for him.

Sometimes I think Kate is an Other,
but I don't think it's a trap because (spoiler)

She makes it to Otherville where she's reunited with Jack who's struck a deal with the Others and Ben tries to persuade Locke not to do something destructive by offering him some of the secrets of the Island - Source; ABC's synopsis for Man from Tallahassee on March 21.


:)

Just because she was on the plane doesn't mean she can't be an Other - could be the Marshall was actually bringing her back to the island!
They seem to be able to leave the island -
think Hotel California - see the Hotel floating there - you go in but you can never leave - well at some point it shows up so that people can get there and sometimes people get out -
Kate was on that plane so that everyone would trust her from the beginning - but she made sure that plane came down and Jack was on that island to save Ben -
I just haven't thought up the reason she is so close to Ben!

I don't think so. Kate was supposed to be in captivity for two weeks, but the schedule got moved up early when Juliet took Kate to Jack in I Do.

PICKETT: I don't understand. It's supposed to be two weeks.
]JULIET: Our schedule's been moved up.
PICKETT: That's an order?
JULIET: It's coming from him.
PICKETT: It's stupid.
JULIET: It's not my call. It's the way it is, Danny.

Flash backs don't lie. We know what Kate was doing in the months and years leading up to the crash. we've met her Mom, Dad and step-dad, and childhood best friend. In the last podcast that Damon and Carlton did they address the question of what happened to Kate after breakfast- so I recommend listening to that. I really don't think there's any way Kate could be an other.

This could be why she isn't bringing Sawyer along with her on her rescue mission, all feelings aside regarding Jack. If she really is leading them into a trap, she wouldn't want Sawyer along because of her feelings for him.

i think that Kate is genuinely trying to save Jack. She was leaving without Locke and Sayid. They chose to tag along on their own. She went to get Danielle's help because she knew she would because of Alex. Kate is not an other. I have no proof of this, but neither did Sayid when he first questioned Ben. He just knew, it was something he sensed. And Kate is just not an OTHER.

YES ABSOLUTELY!

I am convinced although no one else agrees that Kate is an OTHER!

.. until I know where exactly Kate was, when Jack was fighting Ethan back in season 1 "Homecoming", or what she discuss with Ben over the breakfast table in season 3, "The tale of two cities", I will not totally trust Kate.


Unless you mean she's been brainwashed or replaced somehow since they've been there, Kate can't be an Other. She was on the plane.

Cindy was on the plane, and yet we find out in season 3,"Stranger in a Strange Land" that Cindy is one of the others. So Kate could be too.

think that Kate is genuinely trying to save Jack. She was leaving without Locke and Sayid. They chose to tag along on their own. She went to get Danielle's help because she knew she would because of Alex. Kate is not an other. I have no proof of this, but neither did Sayid when he first questioned Ben. He just knew, it was something he sensed. And Kate is just not an OTHER.

Yes, but we know the others are in the habit of making deals,and since we still do not know what Ben discuss with Kate ,we do not know if he offer her a deal or not. (**Note: I thought it was strange that Kate's cage wasn't as secure as Sawyers, and that everyone would happen to clear out and leave Kate and Sawyer along, in enough time for them to make love, and Jack to view it on the video screen. Notice that jack was let out of his cage at that exact time.)

**Note 2:I did note that Kate could be unintentionally, or intentionally leading the Sayid, Locke , and Danielle into a trap. Kate might be unintentionally leading them into a trap, if she is being manipulated into it, considering they know what Kate means to Jack,and figure that she would return with her strongest people....or she might have made a deal for Jack's safety. Kate might have made a deal to bring back Sayid, Locke and Danielle in exchange for Jack safe return.

**Note 2:I did note that Kate could be unintentionally, or intentionally leading the Sayid, Locke , and Danielle into a trap. Kate might be unintentionally leading them into a trap, if she is being manipulated into it, considering they know what Kate means to Jack,and figure that she would return with her strongest people....or she might have made a deal for Jack's safety. Kate might have made a deal to bring back Sayid, Locke and Danielle in exchange for Jack safe return. But how would you explain that Kate didn't even ask Sayid and Locke to help her... she couldn't be sure that they'd follow her.

***Mod edited***

The 2 weeks were in the cage.....hello?..smashing rocks....going through psycho manipulation to draw kate into sawyers cage so they could mate--and have Jack see--so Jack would fix Ben...I mean, is any of this ringing a bell?

There's not even the smallest chance Kate is betraying them. Whats happening is being portrayed very clearly on the TV screen.

***Mod edited***

Kate's a tough one. There are moments when she is manipulative like an Other. And that breakfast scene does seem to implicate there is more going on between her and Ben. Why show it, otherwise? We could have easily seen her go through these motions of smashing rocks, etc. without the sit-down on the beach.

And why only warn Kate of the next two weeks being the worst of her life? Why not include Sawyer? Ben had more planned for Kate, that seems clear to me.

I saw an interview with Cuse and Lindeloff (sp?) on E!'s the Vine Show- Watch with Kristin and she specifically asked if we missed something that happened between Ben and Kate after breakfast because she seemed really defeated when she came to the cage where Sawyer was... and they said they did delete a scene, that will be available on the DVD, where Kate is taken back to the shower area and has a breakdown (by herself), she is crying and trying to get out of the handcuffs- and thats all. So I dont think she is hiding anything- or anything happened that we havent seen.

It just occurred to me that we never did see , what Kate and Ben discuss over breakfast table, in "A Tale of Two Cities". The last thing Ben said to Kate was , " Kate, the next two weeks are going to be very unpleasant. We never did find out why he said the next two weeks. Like the unpleasantness was only going to last two weeks. Do you think that perhaps they let Kate and Sawyer go on purpose, in order for t Kate to return with Sayid and Locke?
We know that the others are like to make deals. They made a deal with Michael, in exchange for his freedom,and his son. They made a deal with Jack, for Kate and Sawyer's freedom, and they made a deal with Juliet. So, I can see Ben making a deal with Kate. When the others sent Michael to rescue Ben, he was told to bring back Kate, Sawyer and Jack. While we still do not know , exactly why the others wanted Kate, Sawyer , and Jack ( Jack was needed to do surgery on Ben), we do know that they are the strongest of the flight 815,or rather leaders on the island. Now Kate is going to rescue Jack,and she is bringing along Sayid ,Locke and Danielle . All three are the next strongest in the group.:eek2: Could Kate be unintentionally, or intentionally leading the Sayid, Locke , and Danielle into a trap? Considering that we do not know what transcribe over the breakfast table between Ben and Kate, and considering that the others are in the habit of making deals, do you think that Kate might have made a deal with the others to bring back Sayid,Locke, and Danielle?

Note: Kate never once mention to Sawyer that Alex might have been Danielle's child, yet she goes to find Danielle to tell her that she found Alex.Hmm?

Gregg Nations suggested last week that Kate's breakfast meeting with Ben was inconsequential to the story.

Cindy was on the plane, and yet we find out in season 3,"Stranger in a Strange Land" that Cindy is one of the others. So Kate could be too.

That's not entirely right. We find out that the Others took the people, including Cindy and that they're still all alive. They made her an Other perhaps, but she wasn't one. They just took her, as they did the kids.

I think the two weeks were the time the Others wanted to convince Jack to do Ben's surgery. Once Jack said Ben needed the surgery A.S.A.P. the order was moved up.

That's not entirely right. We find out that the Others took the people, including Cindy and that they're still all alive. They made her an Other perhaps, but she wasn't one. They just took her, as they did the kids.

We also know (if you believe her backstory), that Juliet was recruited 3 years ago.

So membership in "The Others" may be from birth OR coercion. Coercion may take the form of brainwashing or blackmail.

YES ABSOLUTELY!

I am convinced although no one else agrees that Kate is an OTHER!

I agree, I agree! Kate is the mole. Things just work out too easily for her.

I agree that Kate isn't an Other, but I can subscribe to the theory that she is attempting to follow through on a deal made with the Others, just as Michael did. I mean, wow -- what a plot twist that would be.

I agree that Kate isn't an Other, but I can subscribe to the theory that she is attempting to follow through on a deal made with the Others, just as Michael did. I mean, wow -- what a plot twist that would be.

..I know that something is up with Kate. I also do not believe that Ben would not offer Kate and deal,considering he likely to know her back story. Kate is the one most likely to be offer a deal. We all know that Kate Tried to get off the island before. she stole Joanna's identity, and talked Sun into poisoning Michael/Jin, so she could get a spot on the raft. So I can see Ben offering Kate a deal, in exchange for her helping him to get Jack to do the surgery, or in exchange for her bringing back Locke, Sayid, and Danielle. ...or all of that. Kate have a lot more to lose if they were to be rescued, considering she's on the run, and likely to be thrown in jail, if they are rescued.

..I know that something is up with Kate. I also do not believe that Ben would not offer Kate and deal,considering he likely to know her back story. Kate is the one most likely to be offer a deal. But how could Ben have known that Jack would make the incision during the operation to free Kate and Sawyer? If he wouldn't have done that, Kate and Sawyer would still be with the Os (or be dead). Ben couldn't know before that Kate would be free. You think he would've said "well if you somehow get free and survive and Jack is still here with us and you decide to come back to rescue him please bring Sayid and Locke with you..."?

But how could Ben have known that Jack would make the incision during the operation to free Kate and Sawyer? If he wouldn't have done that, Kate and Sawyer would still be with the Os (or be dead). Ben couldn't know before that Kate would be free. You think he would've said "well if you somehow get free and survive and Jack is still here with us and you decide to come back to rescue him please bring Sayid and Locke with you..."?

How do we know Jack made the incision - it could have all been a set up - much like the door being open right when Kate and Sawyer were "together" -
Certain people within the Others had to believe it was true but in reality - none of it happened - it was all a set up to get Kate back on the island and Sawyer to be clueless about it -

Saywer would have suspected something had it not played out the way it did - he may even suspect something and that is why he told Alex's boyfried to go -

Personally, I think this "two weeks breakfast table scene" has been put too much under a magnifying glass on the Fuselage. Although this is a different topic, I think this example fits well with my point.

With FBYE, people speculated that Desmond did not time travel (or whatever it was) because there were too many things wrong - poster with eyes that blinked (supposedly), pictures moved around in Penny's father's office, the weird lady in the shop, honor was not spelled the British way, and the time on Big Ben did not change. But time travel did happen because that's what TPTB confirmed. So apparently, those things that were errors were simply errors.

In this case, people make Kate out to be an Other because she's the perfect patsy, that is, there are things holes people look for that are not intended to be there. The theory has been around for a while and people don't want to give it up. The scene with the breakfast table was edited (like someone else said), and expect there to be something else to come up. This is probably why questions will never be answered on this show - because some people feel they can't take this show at face value they ask what really happened or don't want to use their imagination for filler information. A TV show can't be expected to really show every detail.

I dont think that Kate was really confronted about bringing more ppl back cuz then the others would of had Micheal bring Locke and Sayid instead of Sawyer and Kate..because that would have made more logical since anyhow... also...Ben immediatly gets up after tellin her of the 2 weeks...and then he leaves.Im pretty sure he did. Also...one ultimate underlining proof...is Sayid! The guy knows freakin everything...he would of been able to call it on Kate...plus she also had planned on going out alone till they found her.

Cindy i guess is following orders to keep the kids safe, it's not simple. But i dare not say she is a other, or she'll be the next to die.

I just wanted to point out that during the Kate and Ben breakfast scene there wasn't really a "discussion". They have a brief exchange, then, after Ben says "...because Kate, the next two weeks are going to be very unpleasant", he stands up and leaves the table.

Cheers,
Rick

Cindy i guess is following orders to keep the kids safe, it's not simple. But i dare not say she is a other, or she'll be the next to die.

I think that the others are made. Like you are asked to join the group, or brainwash the way Karl was.


But how could Ben have known that Jack would make the incision during the operation to free Kate and Sawyer? If he wouldn't have done that, Kate and Sawyer would still be with the Os (or be dead). Ben couldn't know before that Kate would be free. You think he would've said "well if you somehow get free and survive and Jack is still here with us and you decide to come back to rescue him please bring Sayid and Locke with you..."?

..Considering that the others seem to known a lot about Jack, enough to used Juliet to manipulate him, ( Juliet mention that her looking like Jack's wife, wasn't a coincidence.) than it safe to assume that they had some how manage to calculate Jack's next move. ( Like a chess game). Actually, I think the others have calculated all of their actions,and reaction. I find that it was funny, when Ben had Sawyer to believe that they place this thing in his heart, and that he would die,or explode if he were to become excited...and Kate decide right there to get undress in front of him. I also find it strange that Kate pick that moment to try to escape, ( like she might have known that Sawyer wasn't going to try to escape at that time) I also find it awful convenience that Kate's cage is not as secure, as Sawyer and Jack's. ( wasn't that the same Cage Karl was in, days earlier). So consider that they know Jack,and Sawyer behavior and had calculated how they would respond in a given situation, than it's safe to assume that they would know of Kate's situation, and her need to escape from the island, without being sent back to jail, as well as how good Kate is at manipulating man, and they would try to use that for their advantage. They use Kate to get Sawyer to comply with their rules, and they use Kate to ask Jack to do Ben's surgery. I think Picket might have been a wild card,that they couldn't control. Goodwin had once told Ana,that they only take the strongest of the group, which would be Jack,Kate,Sawyer,Locke and Sayid. If they had calculated Locke and Sayid,they would know that Sayid will not fall for Kate returning and Just asking for him to return with her to rescue Jack, exspecially after Michael had already done that ( Kate would be aware of that as well. remember she knows how to manipulate men) So she tells them of her plans,and walk away, like she is going to go it alone. (notice that she didn't mention her plans to anyone else? Kate might have known full well that they would follow her, and not let her do something so dangerous alone. she also know that they would likely be hurt by the fact that she didn't ask fort their help. ( Sayid is a gentleman, he would never let a women do something like that alone, Kate knows this. Locked do not like people telling him what he can't do. He hates people treating him as if he was useless, again, Kate knows this. So telling Sayid that she was going it alone,would bring him, and not asking Locke for his help, would surely get his attention. Kate do not have to worry about Sawyer, considering that she knows he care about her enough to come looking for her if she doesn't return, and he's like to bring other people as well.

So why I am not sure that Kate is a other, I wouldn't pass on her cutting a deal with them. If you think about it,Kate have the most to lose if they were to be rescue, so she would likely be the first one I would try to make a deal with.




Question:
[i]
I would like to know who tied up Mikhail?, and how did Mikhail get loose?

I think this thread doesnt make any sense. People need to stop looking into things so much. That breakfast scene has absolutely no significance to anything, and will probably never be brought up again on the show. He said the next two weeks are going to be unpleasant, and they were. She was hauling rocks around and they were treating her bad. Simple as that. There was nothing more to that scene, and the fact she had sore wrists when being brough back to the cage doenst mean anything. It means she has tried to get her handcuffs off.

I think people need to let this topic go. Kate is a good girl.

I'm not overly sure if my take on it has been touched on in the thread so far. There have been a lot of variances on just a few themes, which are mainly in favour of Kate being one of the true Losties. I believe she'd be one of the last of them to be a Lostile, so I'm going to have to say no.

The idea of her luring Sayid and Locke into a trap is also a little far off. Firstly, she has had no part in the navigation (she has taken a backseat to Locke and Sayid), and there doesn't seem to be any evidence to suggest that will be changing anytime soon. Secondly, I'm quite certain that Locke and Sayid would have been on the 'list' that Michael was handed by Mrs Klugh to gain his son back, if they actually wanted to acquire those two people.

We know that they only really wanted Jack.

"I am diagnosed with cancer, and then a spinal surgeon falls out of the sky".

i think that Kate is genuinely trying to save Jack.
Yes, and maybe the "deal" that Ben offerred her over breakfast was to trade Jack's life for Danielle's. Ben would love to get rid of the only person who knows that he is not really Alex's father.

I'm quite certain that Locke and Sayid would have been on the 'list' that Michael was handed by Mrs Klugh to gain his son back, if they actually wanted to acquire those two people.

We know that they only really wanted Jack.

"I am diagnosed with cancer, and then a spinal surgeon falls out of the sky".

Jack was never on the list. As far as getting Locke, and sayid the first time, if you recalled, they had capture Kate, and hade Jack ,Locke and Sawyer. So why didn't they take them all that time....because it wasn't time to. So the others might have plans for them, that do not involve them all being taken at one time. ( which would explain why they didn't take them all , the first time they were capture)

I can't believe that some people actually still think that Kate is an other. It would make absolutely no sense. For all of the proof that we have had through these 2 and a half seasons that she is not an other, it would be extremely contrived and ridiculous if they revealed that she was one. If it is ever revealed that she is an other, and I am convinced that she is not, I would lose all faith in the writing of the show.

I can't believe that some people actually still think that Kate is an other

Neither Michael,Jack nor Cindy was an other, yet they all made deals. It do not mean that Kate is a other, that is not what the thread is about. It's about rather ,or not she would make a deal. I do not think any of the fuselage are above cutting a deals, if the price was right. Jack made a deal for Sawyer and Kate's freedom, Michael made one for his son, Juliet made one for her freedom...no one is above make a deal, not even Kate. There is a different between being an other, and making a deal with them. Juliet is not even a true other, considering she only was there because she made a deal,and only been with the group for three years. So as far as Kate being an other, or not, is up to each person perception of what constitute as being an other.

First of all, Sayid is very adept at seeing when someone is lying - he knew Ben was lying when others were tempted to believe him, he knew about Mikhail. It's been shown that he wouldn't fall for this kind of thing.

Kate was completely disgusted when she learned about Michael's deal with the others and from what we've seen of her, she is very caring and compassionate in her own way and would never betray those she cares about just to save her own skin. She could have gotten away instead of trying to help the old guy in ...I forget which ep. I don't buy it either. There's just no way she would lead Sayid and Locke into a trap.

Her cage was less secure because she wasn't a flight risk with Sawyer and Jack still in captivity. She only left in the end because Jack told her too and she felt she had no choice to help Sawyer get away.

Neither Michael,Jack nor Cindy was an other, yet they all made deals. It do not mean that Kate is a other, that is not what the thread is about. It's about rather ,or not she would make a deal. I do not think any of the fuselage are above cutting a deals, if the price was right. Jack made a deal for Sawyer and Kate's freedom, Michael made one for his son, Juliet made one for her freedom...no one is above make a deal, not even Kate. There is a different between being an other, and making a deal with them. Juliet is not even a true other, considering she only was there because she made a deal,and only been with the group for three years. So as far as Kate being an other, or not, is up to each person perception of what constitute as being an other.

I'm sorry, I didn't mean to direct my post towards the people hypothesizing that Kate may have made a deal with the others. Early on in the thread there were some posts by people who are completely convinced that Kate is an other and still like to put this out there whenever they get the chance. I guess I personally think that it is a ridiculous theory, but that's just me.

Even though I disagree, the idea that Kate may have made a deal with the others is a much better, and more legitimate guess.

I think that Sayid, being the smartest guy on the island, would have sensed that Kate was up to something...

I think that Sayid, being the smartest guy on the island, would have sensed that Kate was up to something...

No, not really, he's a guy, and he trust Kate. Do not forget that Sayid was trick into almost killing Sawyer by Locke, back in season 1. Locke was able to convince Sayid that Sawyer was the one who knock him out, although it was Locke all along. So it's not that Sayid is not smart , because he is. Sayid just too trusting.

Jack was on the list, iamlost.

To quote from the Wikipedia page, and the scene I skipped to to check:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Others_(Lost)

Days later Michael is being held in one of the Others' yurts, and Ms. Klugh visits him again. She offers Michael a deal. Ms. Klugh explains that one of her people ("Henry Gale") has been captured, and Michael is to go and free him. Michael is also ordered to bring four of the survivors back to the Others. Ms. Klugh hands him a list with the names Jack Shepard, Kate Austin, James Ford, and Hugo Reyes. Michael then demands to see Walt. Ms. Klugh gives in to this and allows father and son to see each other for "three minutes." But when Walt begins to say "they're not who they say they are" and talk about the tests they make him do, Ms. Klugh gets angry and threatens that Walt will be put back in "the room" if he does not behave. After a brief hug, Walt is taken away and Michael reluctantly agrees to bring four of his companions, that Klugh had requested of him. At that moment he is sent away.

Neither Michael,Jack nor Cindy was an other, yet they all made deals. It do not mean that Kate is a other, that is not what the thread is about. It's about rather ,or not she would make a deal. I do not think any of the fuselage are above cutting a deals, if the price was right. Jack made a deal for Sawyer and Kate's freedom, Michael made one for his son, Juliet made one for her freedom...no one is above make a deal, not even Kate.

Let's leave Cindy apart. We still don't know what happened after her capture, and I wouldn't speak of "deals" in her case. I believe she found herself in a situation without real alternatives.

Michael, Jack, Juliet: all of them made deals with the Others for matters of vital importance to them. Michael, after Walt's capture, was getting more and more desperate and would have done anything to bring his son back. Michael was also the most determined Lostie as regards to leaving the island for good. So, in order to achieve these two objectives – get Walt back, leave the island – he did what he had to do.

Jack's deal is different: he stated the terms of the deal, he didn't bring anything or anyone to the Others. With Michael, it was the Others who dictated the terms of the deal: "You want to see your son? Bring these 4 people to us". Jack's deal: "You want me to save Ben? Let my friends go". He could have easily said: "Let the three of us go", but he decided to stay.

Juliet's deal: apparently Ben told her that if she cooperated and convinced Jack to finish the surgery, he would let her go home. Going away and leaving the island seems to be a very important matter for Juliet: we saw signs of her dissatisfaction with staying in the Others' community in "A Tale of Two Cities", and the mere fact that she's been counting the days since her arrival on the island is another indicator.

Now, what about Kate? What kind of deal would convince her to accomplish a task for the Others? Which fact could the Others use with Kate to break her? What big offer could the Others make Kate to force her into doing something? You suggest freedom, the possibility of leaving the island for good. But is Kate so awfully interested in really leaving? To return to what kind of life? The life of a fugitive? Sure, enough time has passed and she may be able to begin a new life under yet another false name, but for what we've seen so far, she has made some important bonds with other people from Flight 815. At least, important enough for her to care and not feel detached (like Michael felt, for example. I don't remember which episode, but he said at one point: "These are not my friends").

But let's assume Kate has made a deal. The Others want Sayid and/or Locke and/or Danielle (heck, why not?) in exchange of whatever. It's strange that now Ben could want people who never were on a list. If he wanted them in the first place, their names (at least Locke and Sayid's) could have been added to the list given to Michael. Well, one could say, now Ben wants another two "second-class" Losties since he had to let Kate and Sawyer go. At this point, let's compare the trip of Michael, Jack, Kate, Sawyer and Hurley with the Kate, Locke, Sayid, Danielle group. When Michael was taking the Losties to the Others' camp, he was very determined, he dictated the conditions ("No, just the five of us, no one else", etc.) and most of all he was leading the way. In "Enter 77" Kate is not taking the lead. She only manifests her will to get Jack back and goes to Danielle, but the group is following a direction marked by a compass in Sayid's possession, following a bearing given by Locke, who derived it from Eko's stick. Other people could have joined Kate. Too many variables would occur. The finding of the Flame station, for example, was clearly not planned, and they found it thanks to Locke's (Eko's) directions. Things escalated in an unforeseeable way at the Flame, and any of them (or all of them) could have been killed or gravely injured, if not by Bakunin or Klugh, by the station's explosion.

I also can't imagine when, in which occasion, Ben (or another Other in a powerful position) could have made a deal with Kate. There's the breakfast scene, sure, but as I already noted, Ben left Kate alone quite soon. Of course it could have happened at another moment, and Lost writers haven't shown us the scene to achieve a later "surprise" moment in the show – and that would be indeed interesting, I admit.

Sorry for my verbosity!
Rick

Post by Anthrax - Jack was on the list, iamlost.

I was refering to the fact that Jack wasn't "original" on Jacob list.

From Season 3, episode 6 "I do":

PICKETT: Ben just put his life in the hands of one of them! Shephard wasn't on Jacob's list.

Now, what about Kate? What kind of deal would convince her to accomplish a task for the Others? Which fact could the Others use with Kate to break her? What big offer could the Others make Kate to force her into doing something? You suggest freedom, the possibility of leaving the island for good. But is Kate so awfully interested in really leaving? To return to what kind of life? The life of a fugitive? Sure, enough time has passed and she may be able to begin a new life under yet another false name, but for what we've seen so far,

..a Kate might do it , for her freedom, considering that she would no longer be a fugitive, considering that as far FBI are concern, Kate Austin , die in a plane crash of flight 815. So no one would be looking for her . She will finally be free to start over. ...or she might make a deal, in exchange for Jack.

If he wanted them in the first place, their names (at least Locke and Sayid's) could have been added to the list given to Michael.
..if you look at it that why, than they would have taken them, when they first encounter them, in "the Hunting Party". Or why didn't they attack the group, like they did to Ana's
group??


I also can't imagine when, in which occasion, Ben (or another Other in a powerful position) could have made a deal with Kate. There's the breakfast scene, sure, but as I already noted, Ben left Kate alone quite soon. Of course it could have happened at another moment, and Lost writers haven't shown us the scene to achieve a later "surprise" moment in the show – and that would be indeed interesting, I admit.

We do not know, what Kate and Juliet talked about, on the walk over to where Jack's was held, nor do we know what was said on the walk back.

It had been stated on spoilerfix, that there was going to be a" character bomb and a more significant story bomb, a game-changer, as it were, and it suppose to happen shortly after the break. I do not know who the game changer will be, but I would not be surprise if it's Kate, or Locke.

I think Cindy may have been brainwashed also. I think that was the point of seeing what they were doing to Karl.

The whole Karl in the brainwashing room still bothers me. Kate and Alex didn't react to the video as Sawyer did. Could that be because Kate and Alex had already seen the video? Has Kate been brainwahsed?

Let's see Kate did not ask them along they invited themselves when she said she was going.
Locke and Sayid picked the direction
Locke and Sayid have a map which they conveniately found
Locke and Sayid are "forcing(?) a prisoner(?)" to lead them to Othersville

Yup that's it - Locke and Sayid are in cahoots with the Others to take Kate back to them
Just look at all the time they spent alone with Ben!
Run Kate Run it's a trap set just for you!:eek2:

Doesn't that sound a lot like many of the theories in this thread? ;)

The whole Karl in the brainwashing room still bothers me. Kate and Alex didn't react to the video as Sawyer did. Could that be because Kate and Alex had already seen the video? Has Kate been brainwahsed?

I think maybe Kate expected it...I didn't really see her reaction. I'm sure Alex knew what to expect already. I don't think they had time to brainwash Kate.

Let's see Kate did not ask them along they invited themselves when she said she was going.
Locke and Sayid picked the direction
Locke and Sayid have a map which they conveniately found
Locke and Sayid are "forcing(?) a prisoner(?)" to lead them to Othersville

Yup that's it - Locke and Sayid are in cahoots with the Others to take Kate back to them
Just look at all the time they spent alone with Ben!
Run Kate Run it's a trap set just for you!:eek2:

Doesn't that sound a lot like many of the theories in this thread? ;)

Don't encourage them. They might read, nod their heads, and say, "Yup, that's a good idea! I am now convinced, let's convince more people on the Fuselage! (evil laugh)"

The "two weeks" is a red herring. That's about how long Ben thought it would take to break Jack, and that's it. The whole thing got moved up when Jack saw the x-rays.

I think the whole breakfast scene was just there as a feeble excuse to get Kate in a dress. "So, Mr. Bond, welcome to my secret facility... before I put you in the laser-shark tank, would you please put on this sexy dress?" ;)

Interesting but I don't buy it.

1. They did the whole 'double agent' storyline last year with Michael.
2. Kate's loyality is tied to Jack and I don't think she would screw him over.

The whole Karl in the brainwashing room still bothers me. Kate and Alex didn't react to the video as Sawyer did. Could that be because Kate and Alex had already seen the video? Has Kate been brainwahsed?

Maybe it only affects MALES???

And maybe Sawyer has been a bit brainwashed by it - thus the WHO ARE YOU comment?

Remember when Alex saw Kate busting rocks back in eppy 2 or 4? Alex said to her, "You're not even supposed to be there (the cages)..." She was confused why Kate would be locked up..

KATES AN OTHER!!!

Flash backs don't lie. We know what Kate was doing in the months and years leading up to the crash. we've met her Mom, Dad and step-dad, and childhood best friend. In the last podcast that Damon and Carlton did they address the question of what happened to Kate after breakfast- so I recommend listening to that. I really don't think there's any way Kate could be an other.

What's to to say that flashbacks aren't implanted memory? We have no objective basis to believe anything in them,after all.

I agree, I agree! Kate is the mole. Things just work out too easily for her.


I started believeing there was something up with her way before that infamous breakfast scene. It was when Jack came to rescue her. When The Others take her out of the jungle to show to Jack, she has a hood on her head like she wasnt meant to see where she was or who she was with. Makes sense. Except that in the episode "3 minutes"(I think that's the one). We see that they put the hood on her just before they brought her out in the open. Why the ruse?
100%
Remember when Alex saw Kate busting rocks back in eppy 2 or 4? Alex said to her, "You're not even supposed to be there (the cages)..." She was confused why Kate would be locked up..

KATES AN OTHER!!!

Ooooh, I missed that one. Good catch!

Originally Posted by Kevonski
Remember when Alex saw Kate busting rocks back in eppy 2 or 4? Alex said to her, "You're not even supposed to be there (the cages)..." She was confused why Kate would be locked up..


No I don't remember that...

I don't think Alex is in on everything that her "father" is doing.

I think the whole breakfast scene was just there as a feeble excuse to get Kate in a dress. "So, Mr. Bond, welcome to my secret facility... before I put you in the laser-shark tank, would you please put on this sexy dress?" ;)Darn it!:mad: Now you have gone and done it! Made me agree with something Ben has done and see it as good. :biggrin:

One more thing...I noticed when Michael came back that he seemed off somehow...and his eyes were different. We were supposed to notice that. There hasn't been anything like that with Kate IMHO.

Originally Posted by Kevonski
Remember when Alex saw Kate busting rocks back in eppy 2 or 4? Alex said to her, "You're not even supposed to be there (the cages)..." She was confused why Kate would be locked up

Nice catch! I didn't catch that the first time around. Alex said that to Kate in "The Glass Ballerina",upon seeing Kate cage up.

Remember when Alex saw Kate busting rocks back in eppy 2 or 4? Alex said to her, "You're not even supposed to be there (the cages)..." She was confused why Kate would be locked up..

KATES AN OTHER!!!

Now, now, let's not jump to conclusions :rolleyes:
Seriously, there really is nothing objective which proves she is an Other. I have read this thread before, but it has gotten big and haven't read everything but I might as well argue against it.

1. The fact that she was trying to save Sawyer's life shows she is a legit Lostie.
2. There hasn't even been proof in the flashbacks. The flashbacks instead show she is just a normal fugitive. Granted, the Others are selfish, but they have a scientific agenda, where Kate's flashbacks show a personal agenda.
3. If she were an Other, she would have continously went back to the Others camp.
4. Since Kate is a fugitive, one with the worse personal history, she is made an easy target to be an Other, the real character-bomb would be when Jack will at least appear to be compromised in the next up-coming episode(s)

Of course, the argument is not necessarily that Kate was always an Other, because it is harder to believe that now. Now the topic has been updated that she has been compromised, but not necessarily raised as an Other. Here are some points to consider, but not necessarily proofs:
1. Don't you think that this topic is getting a bit old? Since there has been amounts of evidence from flashbacks she could not have been raised an Other, she now is being scandalized, people who love this theory want to find anything they can and put inconspicuous lines/scenes and intensely magnify it.
2. Again, the breakfast table scene was nothing big. Like someone else on this thread has posted, there was a scene they deleted with her crying and trying to get out of the cuffs. No compromise, no nothing.
3. Kate, now, is just the opposite of self-centered. If she were a convert, she would only care about herself. Instead, she is putting "Live together, die alone" to action. She primarily attempted to save Sawyer's life, now she is heading back to save Jack.
4. There is no hard-core evidence (or any for that matter) which shows Kate being compromised.
5. Anything such as, "You're not supposed to be in the cages" could mean anything and will be picked and chosen because it is vague.

Have K/J/S been affected? Yes, and one of them perhaps has been affected more than the other two. But struggling to keep alive or rescued from the Others does not make them compromised or converts to the Others. Even when we are around people who we like/dislike, we are affected, and every day. But to be captured/rescued creates trauma for better or worse. Like someone else mentioned on this thread, if Kate is/became an Other, the storyline would suck because it's bad writing and doesn't fit into the storyline.

Sometimes we try and over-think a lot. Don't over-think this one. It's a layup...bunny-shot.
Someone is leading them back. Someone who we don't know much about. Someone who's history is unclear.
Danielle is the character-bomb waiting to happen. You cannot have someone else making a deal to leave. No one is leaving! Ben met Locke and Sayid in the hatch. He's got some unfinished business w/ Sayid and finds Locke to be a little threat because John is one of the good ones. Plus he likes to blow things up!
I'm going to bet that the Others were all on the Black-Rock. I love to see a Danielle flashback!

Remember when Alex saw Kate busting rocks back in eppy 2 or 4? Alex said to her, "You're not even supposed to be there (the cages)..." She was confused why Kate would be locked up..

KATES AN OTHER!!!Alex thought her boyfriend, Karl, was supposed to be in the cage. I saw her remark as one of surprise and confusion that he was gone and a new person, Kate, was now in captivity. Nothing to denote that Kate { Kate =:angel: } is an Other. It did serve to alert us to Alex's disaffection with the group and her connection to Karl.

Bingo... to the above.

I still think Kate is an other and is leading them to a trap - she is the least likely suspect -
the one that will shock us the most!

Locke has in own issues for being "evil" maybe too strong a word but discribes his actions in season one -
BUT
Kate she is always the one that is in the "wrong" place at the "wrong" Lostie time "Right" Other time

She gets caught when Jack goes after them and they say put down your guns or we kill her -
How convienent!

I still think Kate is an other and is leading them to a trap - she is the least likely suspect -
the one that will shock us the most!...

Actually, wouldn't she seem the most likely suspect? After all, she is the runaway fugitive, and was in the act of crime in her pre-Island experience. Besides in Par Avion, Mikhail will say, "Of course I don't know you Sayid Gera. How could I? And you Kate Austen are a complete stranger to me. But you, John Locke, I might have a fleeting memory of. But I must be confused because the John Locke that I know..." If Kate Austen is a complete stranger to him, then she is no Other. But surprisingly, for some reason John Locke and him had some crossover.


...Kate she is always the one that is in the "wrong" place at the "wrong" Lostie time "Right" Other time

She gets caught when Jack goes after them and they say put down your guns or we kill her -
How convienent!

Always? How is it always? The only other example other than the one you provided would be when she was kidnapped with Sawyer and Jack. And that was when she was on the list for Michael to take them with him.

So just because she is a damsel in distress and ruined the plans for one moment she is automatically assumed as an Other? I don't see any conclusive evidence. There would need to be repetition of her ruining the Losties' plans, but there is none. On top of that, in upcoming previews and spoilers, she is surprised to find that Jack chooses to stay because Jack wants to get off the island. This means plans for Kate have changed, and probably won't rescue Jack, since he chooses not to leave the Others' camp

another example -
Kate just happens to making it with Sawyer and Jack has his door opened to see on the screen!

Kate just happens to find the locker with the costumes

Kate just happens to be swimming where the guns are at

Kate just happens to be there to help Jack stitch himself

Kate just happens to be there to deliver Claire's baby

Kate insists on going when the pilot is killed

Kate insists on being first down the hatch -

She convienently places herself in all the right places at the right time - doesn't matter if the outcome isn't always seen as bad - IMO

another example -
Kate just happens to making it with Sawyer and Jack has his door opened to see on the screen!

Kate just happens to find the locker with the costumes

Kate just happens to be swimming where the guns are at

Kate just happens to be there to help Jack stitch himself

Kate just happens to be there to deliver Claire's baby

Kate insists on going when the pilot is killed

Kate insists on being first down the hatch -

She convienently places herself in all the right places at the right time - doesn't matter if the outcome isn't always seen as bad - IMO

Thank you for more examples of her being there at the right place at the right time. But with all due respect, could you explain how these relate to her being an Other? These examples seem to show how she's helped the Losties, but I don't see how they help the Others. In addition, it just seems to flow with Kate's powers and abilities.

Locke, too has abilities, but for some reason he's not considered an Other. He always seems to screw things up, such as preventing Sayid from receiving communications, being responsible for Boone's death, finding the hatch, being responsible for the sky turning purple, and blowing up the flame. Although I don't consider Locke an Other, each character has their abilities to be there for certain events. Sawyer doing what it takes to hold on to his stash, Jack being there to help people, Sayid being there to form strategies, Charlie to tag along, Locke screwing things up, and Kate being there to chase adventure, and being chased by it.

What's to to say that flashbacks aren't implanted memory? We have no objective basis to believe anything in them,after all.

I always have assumed that only 'We the audience' is having the flashbacks, i.e. they aren't 'memories' of the Losties at all, but objective viewing of past events. Am I definitively wrong, or just on the wrong side of popular opinion (is there a TPTB reference to answer this one?) ? Of course with the exception of FBYE, which walks too fine a line between the points of view for me to declare what's objective & subjective viewing for him in that episode.

Thank you for more examples of her being there at the right place at the right time. But with all due respect, could you explain how these relate to her being an Other? These examples seem to show how she's helped the Losties, but I don't see how they help the Others. In addition, it just seems to flow with Kate's powers and abilities.

Locke, too has abilities, but for some reason he's not considered an Other. He always seems to screw things up, such as preventing Sayid from receiving communications, being responsible for Boone's death, finding the hatch, being responsible for the sky turning purple, and blowing up the flame. Although I don't consider Locke an Other, each character has their abilities to be there for certain events. Sawyer doing what it takes to hold on to his stash, Jack being there to help people, Sayid being there to form strategies, Charlie to tag along, Locke screwing things up, and Kate being there to chase adventure, and being chased by it.

As far as Locke goes - I don't trust him and think he is evil - I don't think he is an Other - although I would suspect he wishes he was - always wanting to fit in etc. On another note I am not totally convinced Locke blew up the hatch either one for that matter!

About Kate - I understand why you would think she is most likely the least likely an Other - and you make excellent points that her strengths are shown by being in those situations but for me it is the hunch I have - I think those things are suspicious - It is just my opinion - and I share it here in hope of either being convinced I am wrong or more convinced I am right -
No one seems to suspect Kate of being trouble beyond her normal Kate is always in trouble - mode but what if all these things are just covers for the fact that she is working with the Others!
Thoughts?

Kate just happens to making it with Sawyer and Jack has his door opened to see on the screen!And through ESP Kate knew Jack would open his door & watch? :eek2:
Kate just happens to be swimming where the guns are atFollowing James suggestion that they go for a swim. She then helps make sure Jack gets the guns.:eek:
Kate just happens to be there to help Jack stitch himselfGee and she just happens to have crashed on the same island too and went running into the jungle to remove her hand cuffs in private because she knew Jack would get hurt in the crash and need help.:eek2:

etc etc etc :eek::eek2::eek:
You make Kate sound like a great asset to the Lostees not an Other. I agree she is a great person to be on the Lostee team! :biggrin:

You make Kate sound like a great asset to the Lostees not an Other. I agree she is a great person to be on the Lostee team! :biggrin:


Exactly what I was thinking!

Locke, too has abilities, but for some reason he's not considered an Other

First off,we still do not know if the others are the good guys or not. Second: We do not know what constitute "an other". Since Michael killed Ana, and Libby,.is he consider an other? Jack made a deal with Ben, for Kate and Sawyer safety, so could he be consider a other. Do making a deal with them, classify you as one of them.?

third: Who said that Locke is not working with the others? a while back there was a lot of post pointing the finger at Locke. Locke was the one who knock Sayid out. Locke never told anyone that he was in a wheel chair, nor about his encounter with whatever he saw in the jungle. Locke wasn't all that interested in finding Claire. It was Locke who was the one hanging out with Ethan. Locke , and Kate was the one who tried to get Jack to give up on finding Ethan. Therefore, I do not trust neither of the, nor do I trust Danielle (but she one of my favorite characters, although her story are not adding up). Besides, they might not be others, they could be Hostile,or undercover Dharma workers..it's just something that they do , or say, make you not totally trust them.


Mikhail might not be a other from Ben's group, considering he claim that Kate wasn't on the list, yet according to Danny, only Kate and Sawyer were on Jacob's list. Ben added Jack name to the list.