This episode has pushed me into several new realms of speculation. Something I have mulled over all day is my new belief that John's secret agenda isn't actually his agenda. I think he is under control and is being used as an instrument to achieve things that benefit somebody or something... Maybe the original inhabitants... maybe D.I.... maybe the hostiles... maybe the island itself... maybe a race of half-human-half-polar-bears that live on beer and pork rinds... WHO KNOWS???

I think he has the sickness that Danielle used to speak of all the time. I also no longer believe Danielle's story, but that is a topic for another thread. I have more thoughts on this but I must get back to work before my boss busts me.

Cheers!

I think he just REALLY doesn't wanna get off the island.
He dreams of being an other.
He thinks he has a destiny on the island whereas he's just a big loser in the outside world.


Remember in season 1 where he hit Sayid from behind with a stick ?
Remember when he was responsible for blowing up the swan (thus interrepting any communication with the outside world) ?
Remember when he was responsible for blowing up the flame (thus interrepting any communication with the outside world) ?

Remember how he blew up the sub ?

tolloli,

I am asking myself the same questions you are. It might not be the "sickness," if it even exists. But could he be receiving further intructions from someone or something?

Remember when Locke was in the sweat lodge, and Boone came to him and said something like "They've got him, you need to save him" about Eko? Who had him? the polar bears? and if it was the polar bears, then Locke saved him, but WHAT if Boone didnt mean the polar bears after all?What if he meant the island has him? Then Locke really didnt save him at all.

I don't think Locke approaches it as - I don't want to leave this island, so I will strand everyone else here. I don't think that is rational. He may want that, but I am sure he has rationalized it as trying to save the world - trying to destroy the hostiles who are violating the benevolent island that has given him at least the gift of his legs and possibly psychic powers.

Ofcourse he would stay on the island, since he is possibly in a wheelchair everywhere else. Maybe more importantly, he has his first family on the island. This all makes him suceptible to siding with the others or dharma, if he has to find a reason to stay, and/or if he feels rejected by the other losties.

It is interesting that out of the key survivors, he led the most ordinary life. He is no rockstar, or special forces, or surgeon, or millionare, or america's most wanted. Yet on the island he has led many of these people and is one of the most powerful. Tabula Rasa.

Yes tolloli, I am pretty sure you are right. I have suspected this for a long time and your observations have made me even more convinced. I don't think Locke has been 'himself' since he came face to face with the monster way back in Season 1. I think the monster possessed him.
(http://www.thefuselage.com/Threaded/member.php?u=39929)

I think Locke got some instructions from Marvin candle when he entered 77 and is now following up on them.

Sick or not, I think the island has already "threatened" John with taking back his legs if he doesn't stay on his mission. Pretty good motivator!

He wants to stay on the Island. And since Boone told him to focus on "his family" there, Locke's decided that this means the group must stay on the Island, too. After all it has done for HIM, it's the best place for THEM, too, right? (Stark, raving. . . .)

Of course, I also believe that this is connected with whatever he saw during the Boar Hunt in "Walkabout," too. But funny thing is that, even without that glorious vision, I think he might still be at this same point now. His need for a sense of Great Destiny has been with him all his life; when the Island "gave" him back his legs, he felt he'd begun to find just that. His encounter with Smokey, his happy paste vision, his dreams, Eko's stick--everything that followed has just underscored his conviction that he has found His Mission In Life.

This has always endangered the people with him, as "fulfilling" this Destiny has been Locke's priority over everything and everyone else. But now, more than ever, everyone on the Island is in grave danger from this man and his obsession.

I am :fear3: for losties and Others alike! (Heck, I'm even starting to worry for Smokey!)

I think Locke got some instructions from Marvin candle when he entered 77 and is now following up on them.

That is also an excellent theory Jynes, I like it. I think there was more to that Marvin Candle video on the computer.

That is also an excellent theory [b]Jynes[b], I like it. I think there was more to that Marvin Candle video on the computer.

I agree. And...

We know that there is supposed to be a power shift coming. With Locke meeting up with Ben face to face, who is to say that it's not Locke coming to power, and not Jack. They've both been fighting for leadership since the first season.

Hey guys

What bugs me are the theories that John is turning bad and he has a sinister motive etc etc

When all you have to do is remember the episode that expained his motive--Further Instructions

I pulled this up

LOCKE [to Eko who's unconscious]: I'm sorry. Sorry I ever doubted you. Sorry I gave up on my faith in the island. I messed up. Now our people are captured -- if I'd just listened to you -- if I'd just let you keep pushing the button. I could have gone with them, protected them. I could have saved them.
EKO: You can still protect them. You can still save them.
LOCKE: I don't even know where they are.
EKO: You will find them. After all, you are a hunter, John.

You see..if people would just watch the show --that would help..haha. But what I mean is so many go off on tangents, when if they just watched the episode again, it would remove many of the questions they have

Above, we see Johns motive and it is not sinister. I do agree, it seems the writers have exclerated Johns behavioral arc quite fast. But I think they want people to think he is being irrational so they can reveal later that he actually has a plan

Now that plan seems quite destructive to the survivors chances of leaving...but at least in Johns mind, its the only option. He is truly trying to save them. Whether he is right--we dont know

Hey guys

What bugs me are the theories that John is turning bad and he has a sinister motive etc etc

When all you have to do is remember the episode that expained his motive--Further Instructions

I pulled this up

LOCKE [to Eko who's unconscious]: I'm sorry. Sorry I ever doubted you. Sorry I gave up on my faith in the island. I messed up. Now our people are captured -- if I'd just listened to you -- if I'd just let you keep pushing the button. I could have gone with them, protected them. I could have saved them.
EKO: You can still protect them. You can still save them.
LOCKE: I don't even know where they are.
EKO: You will find them. After all, you are a hunter, John.

You see..if people would just watch the show --that would help..haha. But what I mean is so many go off on tangents, when if they just watched the episode again, it would remove many of the questions they have

Above, we see Johns motive and it is not sinister. I do agree, it seems the writers have exclerated Johns behavioral arc quite fast. But I think they want people to think he is being irrational so they can reveal later that he actually has a plan

Now that plan seems quite destructive to the survivors chances of leaving...but at least in Johns mind, its the only option. He is truly trying to save them. Whether he is right--we dont know

Admittedly, that may have been his motivation before he left on the mission, but I'm not entirely sure it still is....

Preview info:


Especially considering in the US promo he says to Benry, "I'm not here for Jack". He's there for answers, and I think/hope we're seeing Locke's stand as far as figuring out what's going on on the island. Benry better give up some info or things start getting blown up! And all I have to say is that it's about time! :)

I really don't know what Locke's motives are, but I'd like to throw an interesting sideline in here. A while ago i posted a message to Terry O'Quinn asking his thoughts on the Locke action figure. Here's his reply..

http://www.thefuselage.com/Threaded/showthread.php?t=45421&highlight=walterneff

I've really been wondering about that statement alot lately

Admittedly, that may have been his motivation before he left on the mission, but I'm not entirely sure it still is....

Preview info:


Especially considering in the US promo he says to Benry, "I'm not here for Jack". He's there for answers, and I think/hope we're seeing Locke's stand as far as figuring out what's going on on the island. Benry better give up some info or things start getting blown up! And all I have to say is that it's about time! :)

Yeah, but on another promo (ABC promo on Lost-Media (http://lost-media.com/modules.php?name=Downloads&d_op=viewdownloaddetails&lid=781)), he says:
I'm not here for Jack, I'm here for the submarine.
We all know he blows up the submarine (or at least we're sure that's what he blew up).
Now I can't remember what I wanted to say about that, lol.
Edited to say: I also agree with GodBlessTexas:

We know that there is supposed to be a power shift coming. With Locke meeting up with Ben face to face, who is to say that it's not Locke coming to power, and not Jack. They've both been fighting for leadership since the first season.

He wants to stay on the Island. And since Boone told him to focus on "his family" there, Locke's decided that this means the group must stay on the Island, too. After all it has done for HIM, it's the best place for THEM, too, right? (Stark, raving. . . .)

Of course, I also believe that this is connected with whatever he saw during the Boar Hunt in "Walkabout," too. But funny thing is that, even without that glorious vision, I think he might still be at this same point now. His need for a sense of Great Destiny has been with him all his life; when the Island "gave" him back his legs, he felt he'd begun to find just that. His encounter with Smokey, his happy paste vision, his dreams, Eko's stick--everything that followed has just underscored his conviction that he has found His Mission In Life.

This has always endangered the people with him, as "fulfilling" this Destiny has been Locke's priority over everything and everyone else. But now, more than ever, everyone on the Island is in grave danger from this man and his obsession.

I am :fear3: for losties and Others alike! (Heck, I'm even starting to worry for Smokey!)


My thoughts exactly, I concur!!!:eek2:

Admittedly, that may have been his motivation before he left on the mission, but I'm not entirely sure it still is....

Preview info:


Especially considering in the US promo he says to Benry, "I'm not here for Jack". He's there for answers, and I think/hope we're seeing Locke's stand as far as figuring out what's going on on the island. Benry better give up some info or things start getting blown up! And all I have to say is that it's about time! :)

Hey

No, Im with you on "not entirely sure" feeling. but as i said, I think thats a writing techinque intended to make the audience question his motives(through sayid). But the FI episode showed his motives--and because that episode was before the break, viewers think of it as long ago--but it was not long ago in island time and in shooting of the epi's--as this episode was already shot.
I think they made it cear through Kate and sayids questions to Locke that he was not exactly there specifically for Jack..but has a bigger picture in mind that not only includes Jacks safety but everyones.

his statement is at least SHOCKING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:eek2::eek2::eek2::eek2::e ek2::eek2::eek2::eek2:


walterneff,
I know that's in the works. My thoughts............................I think if they make John Locke an action figure, he should come with a little gun to shoot himself.

Cheers,

T

Losthatch.com episode ?

Now that we have a good idea that Yemi was Smokey, it looks like Smokey was playing Eko to get him to steer Locke in certain directions, why didn't Smokey just appear to Locke and get him to go to the ?

Yemi: Shh, shh, shh, shh, shh. The work being done in this place is important, Eko. It is more important than anything. And it is in danger. You must help John. He has lost his way. You must make him take you to the question mark.

So much stuff happened in ? and considering the things we know now, I think it's important to look at the visions and dreams especially where Locke is concerned.

walterneff,
I know that's in the works. My thoughts............................I think if they make John Locke an action figure, he should come with a little gun to shoot himself.

Cheers,

T

I think this is being taken out of context a little bit. If I recall correctly, Terry was indifferent at best to the idea of becoming an action figure (which is his prerogative). So this may have simply been his way of saying "I don't really care" in response to the question about what accesories the toy should have. Not trying to put words into his mouth, but I think it's a stretch to say that this is some clue about John's ultimate fate, especially since the cast have said repeatedly that they typically are only allowed to read two scripts ahead.

I think this is being taken out of context a little bit. If I recall correctly, Terry was indifferent at best to the idea of becoming an action figure (which is his prerogative). So this may have simply been his way of saying "I don't really care" in response to the question about what accesories the toy should have. Not trying to put words into his mouth, but I think it's a stretch to say that this is some clue about John's ultimate fate, especially since the cast have said repeatedly that they typically are only allowed to read two scripts ahead.

nonono,im NOT implying that the actor knows something about characters fate,we dont know,but only that he has more clue on what his characters direction will be and the reaction from the other losties(hmm,others and losties in the same sentence)..
in my opinion,it means '' with the paths Locke s chosen and the stupid things hes about to do and the heat hes gonna be taking,he better have a gun in handy,so he can escape all the chaos hes gonna cause ''

Again, considering the post was made over a year ago, it's more likely he was frustrated with the characterization of Locke at THAT point in time (which he was vocal about) than that he knew something about the later direction of his character. Hell, the writers probably did not even have more than an outline of season 3 events at that point. And while I like to think Terry is a smart, intuitive guy, I'm sure he has no more idea what's going to happen next than the rest of us.

Hey

No, Im with you on "not entirely sure" feeling. but as i said, I think thats a writing techinque intended to make the audience question his motives(through sayid). But the FI episode showed his motives--and because that episode was before the break, viewers think of it as long ago--but it was not long ago in island time and in shooting of the epi's--as this episode was already shot.
I think they made it cear through Kate and sayids questions to Locke that he was not exactly there specifically for Jack..but has a bigger picture in mind that not only includes Jacks safety but everyones.

Well, they say the road to hell is paved with good intentions, and I'm beginning to think that Locke is becoming an "ends justify the means" kind of guy. He may want to protect the other losties, even if it means protecting them from their own decisions and free will. If that's the case, that makes him nothing more than a tyrant. But even more, I still think he puts the island and its mysteries before protecting his fellow stranded passengers.

Well, they say the road to hell is paved with good intentions, and I'm beginning to think that Locke is becoming an "ends justify the means" kind of guy. He may want to protect the other losties, even if it means protecting them from their own decisions and free will. If that's the case, that makes him nothing more than a tyrant. But even more, I still think he puts the island and its mysteries before protecting his fellow stranded passengers.
These things have been true of John Locke since day one. This is nothing new.

These things have been true of John Locke since day one. This is nothing new.


That's what I've been thinking while reading through this thread too. Locke hasn't changed all that much from when we first met him in season 1. He's odd and we always have a hard time figuring out why he does certain things!!

I still think he's gonna use that gun for some reason. Funny he should say 'gun' as well 'to shoot himself'... perhaps he really either doesn't like the character or knows ultimately where he is headed. After all he does have a contract with ABC/Lost and he must know how long that has to run. I pray though he stays around until the end. IN FACT I think he'll do a Klinger a la MASH and be one of the only ones left, endlessly exploring Lost island... my how romantic.

walterneff.

walterneff, walterneff, walterneff...

Bless you, friend, but I just think you are reading toooooo much into the comment. TOQ is constantly cracking jokes in his responses to people. It's not a clue. It's not evidence that TOQ knows any more about where Locke will end up than the rest of us.