I'm pulling this out of the Walt thread, so as not to thread-drift in there and because Bess asked.* :)

I think that genetics is important somehow but I don't know how.* Genetic tampering, engineering, something -- there's a string of things that seem related to genetics but I can't tie them together in any way that makes sense.* The missing hair brushes, Claire's special baby, polar bears that are comfortable in a hot climate, Alex, all the emphasis on fathers... there's something in there.*

One of my own pet theories is that Claire's pregnancy was deliberate -- not on her part, on someone else's.* She was taking birth control pills, but they can be tampered with.* Maybe there is something about Claire's particular genetic makeup that would make any child of hers special.* (As opposed to the baby being special for some paranormal reason.)

Yes, I think there may be something about the island which alters the genome.

I've mentioned in other threads that French nuclear testing was carried out in Polynesia, and how that may explain the "hatch" and the cables.

Radioactivity in the soil would get into the food supply.* That would be bad for everyone, but particularly a developing baby.* Accepting certain Hollywood cliches about radiation, it's also possible that something the islanders are eating is not entirely benign.* So there may be mutant fruit as well.* E.g. the coconut milk now includes small doses of a mild hallucinogen.

I think there is an intoxicant somewhere in the food chain.* The creators have said everything that happens is based on fact.* But we already know the islanders hallucinate.* It's also possible that Danielle's team was either investigating mutations, or creating them! So they may know something about the native plant and animal life we don't.

All valid points and great theories, but I was also wondering if genetics is what got them on that island in the first place.Suppose it isn't as random as it seems -- suppose someone just yanked the right chain to get them on that plane and therefore that island.* That person would have to know their complete background and what chain to yank, which means they'd have to have followed their life since they were children.* There would be no reason to follow such a diverse group of people from childhood on, unless there was something "different" about them as children.* Or does that sound raving mad?* :laugh:*

(We need a different title for this forum so that I can blame it on the forum title.* "Well this IS the raving-lunatic forum after all!")

Maybe the person they think is their father isn't really, or something in their genetic makeup makes them the right people for whatever's going on there, or... ah rats it's all blurry, like the psychic's vision.* :laugh:

One thing that popped into my head for no reason that I can remember, was that news story some years back about a doctor who ran a fertility clinic, and who claimed to be using donor sperm.* But as it turned out he was doing all the donating.*

Interesting thread.

I think you may be on to something, Kato. At the very least there is probably some experimentation with genetics happening on the island, as evidenced by the lack of hair brushes.

Plus, it does seem that all the survivors were somehow hand picked, but I can't figure out how this would work. Do you think the Others have a link to the outside, and are working with people in the various countries where the castaways come from? It seems like a bit of a stretch that some organization has been watching all these individuals from childhood and then managed to get them all on a plane together. But hey anything's possible this is the...oh wait it's not the "wild theories" board anymore! I too miss the name.


I think there is an intoxicant somewhere in the food chain. The creators have said everything that happens is based on fact. But we already know the islanders hallucinate. It's also possible that Danielle's team was either investigating mutations, or creating them! So they may know something about the native plant and animal life we don't.


I agree there is probably something strange about the island food, perhaps caused by radiation or some other kind-of scientific experimentation. Remember Claire's baby didn't move until she ate island food.

The hand-picked part is hard to work, even if someone had a reason to keep tabs on these people from birth onwards, because it would take a huge amount of time and money.* What on earth would the payoff be for that?* Unless they were somehow microchipped or something as children. :laugh:* (That's the 24 influence there.)

But I do think the Others have a link to the outside, and probably even come and go as they please.* I don't think the plane randomly happened to fly over their airspace and get snared in a trap, I think they chose that plane before it took off.*

But I do think the Others have a link to the outside, and probably even come and go as they please.


Now that I think about it, you're probably right about a link to the outside world. They do control the distress signal.

And I think Ethan managed to blend in too well with the Lostaways for someone who was raised without any contact with the civilized world -- or, at least without contact with people who had contact.

And they have an awful lot of supplies for people who just happened to end up there -- metal to make a hatch and something to forge the hatch, (and whatever it leads to, the tools necessary to create it), a power source, that cable in the water...

Oh, good thinking Bess!* And maybe military records?

The hand-picked part is hard to work, even if someone had a reason to keep tabs on these people from birth onward, because it would take a huge amount of time and money.* What on earth would the payoff be for that?* Unless they were somehow microchipped or something as children. :laugh:* (That's the 24 influence there.)

But I do think the Others have a link to the outside, and probably even come and go as they please.* I don't think the plane randomly happened to fly over their airspace and get snared in a trap, I think they chose that plane before it took off.*


Of course the survivors really don't have to be from the outside world at all. There is already evidence of some type of mind erase technology. Claire and Charlie have been subjected to that treatment (maybe). That type of ability perhaps also gives the ability to program the mind to believe whatever its controller wants. Oh I don't know like a plane crash or the fact that your mother was killed while you hid under a bed type of thing.
Here is a longshot for you but say that they were all more or less created on the island genetically or even cloned from the original people on the island If they were raised in lab conditions there entire lives could have been programmed as memories. ala the matrix....Who knows if the flashbacks we have been seeing are real or memorex...?

Perhaps they are being tested in social and adaptive skills before the project can be called a success. So the entire island becomes a testing facility to release them into our society so that pinky and the brain can finally take over the world. :-\

I know how crazy that sounds and how many holes there are in the theory but it is a "link" genetically.

There is already evidence of some type of mind erase technology.

That type of ability perhaps also gives the ability to program the mind to believe whatever its controller wants.

Here is a longshot for you but say that they were all more or less created on the island genetically or even cloned from the original people on the island If they were raised in lab conditions there entire lives could have been programmed as memories. ala the matrix....

The creators have said there is a rational explanation for everything that happens. This is not intended as a sci-fi show.

Who knows if the flashbacks we have been seeing are real or memorex...?


I've asked that a while ago (or better: if we can take for granted that what we see in FB really happend.)
It did. It's an objective view of the person experiencing it, but it definitely happened.

As for sci-fi.... the statement was that everything could be explained with science or pseudo-science.... quite a bit of what we call science-fiction would indeed fall under one of those...



eta: What I initially wanted to post lol

I like the genetics-idea... but I'm not so sure how whoever came up with it could have assure that the people he/they wants/want on that island would actually survive the crash....

The creators have said there is a rational explanation for everything that happens.* This is not intended as a sci-fi show.



Also a woman can get pregnant while using birth control pills.. Its not magic or tampering....its just that no method is 100% foolproof.

This is a great subject.

First, In order for all these people to have been manipulated into being on this plane and surviving the crash would take a conspiracy of gigantic proportions. We have people from many different parts of the world and circumstances that leave to much to chance. It's possible that a few could have been manipulated into being on this particular flight but beyond a few becomes a little to far fetched to be explained.

What we know or can be fairly easily assumed:

At least three and probably more planes/ships have been marooned on the Island because of instrument malfunction. "Adam and Eve" found in the caves that have been left in the cave dead for 50 to 60 years, Danielle's crew and our current Lostaways. I don't think it is to great a jump to believe there are others that suffered the same fate.

All the hair brushes are missing. A small detail that is easily overlooked but very intriguing when you stop to think of it. Easy to assume they were taken for the genetic material. Out of all the luggage not one hair brush is found, that is very odd.

Ethan was not on the passenger manifest. Yes, it can be argued that he lied about his name but WHY? There is no way they Lostaways can acquire damaging information. They only know what they are told by the individual. So, I believe, there is no reason for him to lie about his name if he was on the plane. It's also not that big a mystery how he blended in with the other Lostaways. The one he had most contact with is Locke and that was for the purpose of hunting and tracking which Locke did say he was especially adept at. Clothing easy he found it in the luggage. Remember he gives some luggage to Hurley including the golf clubs. So clothes are not that big a deal.

Hallucinations/Visions and hearing voices(whispers) are common here.

This ties in with my theory that some type of enhanced mental capacities are being developed here. We are taught our boundaries as we grow. One of the first words that children learn is NO. This inhibits our ability, for lack of having a better description to, "Think Outside The Box"". Now on the Island there doesn't appear to be the same structure that we have in society. Therefore the capability to developer the mind to it's fullest potential exists. Every individual has their own limitations. If you were able to genetically produce a superior mind with certain traits and have that mind with a clean slate (Tabula Rosa) you could allow that mind to develop far beyond anything we now know.

The, let's just say scientist, who are on the island, were originally sent here as a secret research team, to develop the minds potential. Since there was limited knowledge of their existence, something happened to strand them here, this was after the building of the hatch and other modifications were done to the Island. Whenever a ship or plane is close enough they can cause a malfunction of the instruments causing it to come to the Island. They need these people because they need certain genes in order to conduct and refine their experiment.

This is how the Genetics and the Super developed mind occur.

This could tie into the Tesla theories as well.


Yes. Also in reading Tesla's autobiography, I found he had a highly advanced mental ability. When he was young he was able to picture events in his mind. He believed he also developed the ability to project some of those things into other people's mind. As her grew older he developed this in a different way. He actually developed all his inventions in his mind and did all the testing on them in his mind prior to building them. He was very interested in the power of the mind. From what I've read he created many things one of them I think was called a death ray that could bring a plane down similar to what happened. He never completed the project due to lack of financial backing.

It's possible that a few could have been manipulated into being on this particular flight but beyond a few becomes a little to far fetched to be explained.

I agree, but I like to work things from every possible angle just for the hell of it.* It's improbable, but is it impossible?* I just want to know the answer for the answer's sake sometimes, even if it doesn't go anywhere.

Whenever a ship or plane is close enough they can cause a malfunction of the instruments causing it to come to the Island.*

Or possibly, they aren't actually stranded and can come and go at will.* Only the Lostaways have to be stranded -- if they get off the island they'll tell the world what happened and it'll be overrun with media and scientists before you can say "news cycle."* Whoever else is on the island, it doesn't matter if they know how to get off again.*

This ties in with my theory that some type of enhanced* mental capacities are being developed here.

I like the enhanced-mental-capacities angle.* You made a good case for it.

I agree, but I like to work things from every possible angle just for the hell of it. It's improbable, but is it impossible? I just want to know the answer for the answer's sake sometimes, even if it doesn't go anywhere.


No it's not impossible.* *Highly improbable but not impossible.* It's interesting, the other night I was watching the NBC special on UFO's, and well all lmain stream scientist say it's impossible for aliens to travel through space to earth, a leading phyisist made the distinction that it is impossible according to what we know now.* He went on to state that wormholes were possible and if a civilization a billion years ahead of us had different technology he didn't see any reason why they couldn't travel to earth.* It just goes to show that we are limited by our perception of what can and can't be done.



I like the enhanced-mental-capacities angle. You made a good case for it.

Thank you.* Have you read Tesla's autobiography?* It's very interesting.* You can go to:* WWW.amasci.com/tesla/biog.txt

The big problem that I have with theories that suppose the survivors were chosen to crash on the island has to do with those that didn't survive. Were they just collateral damage? How could whoever was causing the crash ensure that the correct people survived?

Also, reading porkinz's post made me think a little about cloning. The thing that Hollywood always gets wrong with clones is that they try to create adults. The way cloning does (and probably always will) work is that you can make someone / something that has your exact same genetic material, but it has to start as a baby. As the structure of DNA was only understood in 1953, even advanced super-secret government cloing could only have produced someone that is, at most, 40 by now. At the most then, we could only see clones of the survivors as kids.

Now that would give them some Daddy (and Mommy) issues! :laugh:

Thanks for the Tesla link, LBL, I've put it in my Lost Supplemental Reading folder.* :)

Sapphire, so true about TV Cloning, it's more like xeroxing.* *:laugh:* But the survivors as kids -- that would be an interesting Nature vs. Nurture experiment for some mad scientist -- would they turn out the same way?* But I can't imagine any reason for some madman to plow millions of dollars into that, because what would the payoff be?

How could they choose who survives.... aaagghhh it's impossible to get around that one and believe me I've tried.* Maybe it didn't matter who survived, the entire plane was full of "chosen" people?* Maybe they weren't supposed to survive,* that's the part that went awry?* Maybe they were removed from the plane somehow before it crashed?* (That one has already taken a beating in another thread.* :laugh:)* Nope, I've got nothing.

Skip the alien theory....it has already been done.....over and over again....

All the hair brushes are missing.* A small detail that is easily overlooked but very intriguing when you stop to think of it.* *Easy to assume they were taken for the genetic material.* Out of all the luggage not one hair brush is found, that is very odd.

I'm completely intrigued with the genetics theory!* Love it!* But here's the deal. .* . Locke is bald.* I'm assuming that a bald man would not have a hairbrush.* Is this another example of Locke knowing exactly what is going on in this island and somehow "flying under the radar" of whoever or whatever is taking hairbrushes?* All the other male survivors have facial stubble, including Locke, but he's got no hair on that head.* I wonder if this is a coincidence, or yet another small detail easily overlooked?

All the hair brushes are missing.* A small detail that is easily overlooked but very intriguing when you stop to think of it.* *Easy to assume they were taken for the genetic material.* Out of all the luggage not one hair brush is found, that is very odd.



Okay... I missed where someone on the show mentioned all the hair brushes were missing. Can someone quote an eppy and time to find this ?


I've been thinking genetics for a long time. And the hair brushes would point to genetics.... BUT....

Like Crafty mentioned... Locke's bald. I'm a dude and I don't think I've EVER owned a hair brush... (even during the 80's!).

SOOO... that would mean... someone or a group of someones went through ALL the bags for brushes...!!? That tells me that whomever took the brushes is looking for something specific that could be found in a woman's DNA... OR... They're looking for a specific person they knew would be there but didn't know which it would be.


(it also says that there had to be search time; but that's a whole 'nother thread)

I think too many times here people try to hide behind the psuedo science explanation that was given to us by the writers.

Since it has to be based on psuedo science it can't be science fiction, no ufo's no aliens, no advanced mind manipulation, no wormholes...etc. The problem is everything I just listed IS psuedo science.

Who is to say that Sawyer doesn't have the hairbrushes? He has everything else. ;)

Hmmm yeah... he might as well have them.

I had a thought answering another thread...

I think whomever searched for the hair brushes knew that their test subject was among the survivors but didn't know which one it would be. So they test the DNS in the hair to find that Special person. AND they were definately looking for a woman. If they needed to test the men too, they would have taken the time they spent gathering hair brushes to gather tooth brushes (something both men and women use).

ok...I'll bite . . so let's say they were looking for Claire's hairbrush to test the DNA of a her baby. Another way of establishing the DNA of a baby is through amniocentesis. (Ouch) Would that relate back to Claire's dreams/memories of someone trying to "hurt" her baby? Do you think someone was trying another method for establishing DNA?

Hmmm... they were looking for some genetic factor, and if they found it, whatever way they were going to use this factor -- it had to be done before the baby was born?* Would that maybe explain Ethan's almost panicked reaction when Charlie said she was in labor?*

I'm thinking that while Claire's baby is still in the womb it can't be... infected(?) ... by what ever it is on the island that made Danielle shoot her crew. That would mean the "infection" isn't transmitted via food.

So... if that were the case, we can deduce that when the baby is born it'll need to happen in some sort of sterile environment. Or it'll be infected along with the others (and here I mean ALL the others, the other Others and the Lostaways). Hence, Ethan's panic.

Could it be possible.... bear with me.... that there's two groups of Others? One group that's in need of a cure to something and one that's trying to provided the cure? One group on the island in isolation, and another that has access to the island but don't stay there on the island. (Possibly via submarine?)

First off, it was Claire who was looking for the hairbrush. *She said something to the affect of you would think that in one of these suitcase, someone would pack a hairbrush but I can't find one.

We aren't just talking about the 14 or even the 46 Lostways, we are talking about any of the luggage that was found. *So the odds of no one carrying a hairbrush in their luggage is extremely high. I've gone on many vacations and I, being a male, still make sure to pack a hairbrush I prefer it to a comb. *My female companions wouldn't think of going on a trip without a hairbrush. *So, it is very strange, indeed.

When speaking of pseudo science, mind manipulation isn't SciFi, brainwashing and subliminal advertising have been done being able to advance it isn't such a stretch. *Genetic cloning has been accomplished with animals, *someone testing it on humans isn't such a stretch either. *As to wormholes and I am not saying they even come into play on Lost, but a leading Physicist in the country thinks the only thing holding us back from accepting this theory is the limits of our own mind. *He finds it totally logical.

Before we write all pseudo science as SciFi, keep in mind that many, many things that were considered fantasy years ago came to be. *Submarines, Planes, Trains and Automobiles *just to mention a few. *There are many other examples. *And I believe one of the main point this show is trying to get across is the opening of our minds to other possibilities. *

We have had references to that fact that not everything is as it appears and You can't hear everything.

I mean Martians with Ray Guns would ruin the show, I agree. *But genetic experimentation and Mind manipulation are not way out there theories.

Kgmaus -- or to add to the Giant Evil Conspiracy theories, how about a disease, a cure, and the ability to infect people with it and then use the cure as a bargaining chip? *(World domination, etc.etc.etc.)

I agree, LBL -- genetic manipulation may be a newer science but I consider it a science, ditto mind manipulation. *So long as they base whatever they're doing on what's already known about these things, I won't have a problem with it. *(Meaning, I don't want to see any Vulcan mind meld "technology.")

I didnt read this whole thread because of time but.....

as far as BC goes...you can get pregnant it's just a very small percentage, but I also believe it's something "mystical" or scientic based on the reason for her pregnancy...her "dream" with the needle being poked in her stomach (I believe) could either be a dream where she is recalling a past repressed experience, or something that was happening then which could of been by Ethan or another "other" for reasons of genetic manipulation....

Well, considering that no one in their third trimester of preganacy is supposed to be flying, maybe Clair's OBGYN is in on this entire thing.* Who knows??

Crafty... *isn't it "recommended" that mothers-to-be not fly during the 3rd trimester?

So.... moving on with Genetics...

I think we're all in agreement, or at least not in denial yet, that all the clues to Genetics add up to something.

BUT...

Does the genetic link apply to all the Fab14, to just Claire, to ALL 46 of the survivors?

I'm leaning toward this... * the Other's are solely interested in Claire and her baby's genetics. *I'm not sure yet if it's actually Claire and her baby themselves the Others are interested in or if it's any pregnant woman they're looking for. *(I'm betting that Shannon is going to be in trouble, too. *Once we discover for sure she's pregnant.)

Thoughts?

I believe it's the baby that is important. I don't think Claire matters to the Others any more than being the vessel that is carrying their treasure. Because the baby is a true Tabula Rosa, fresh mind with no preconceptions and a fresh body with no pollutants. A true fresh start for the Others.

I believe it's the baby that is important.* I don't think Claire matters to the Others any more than being the vessel that is carrying their treasure.* Because the baby is a true Tabula Rosa, fresh mind with no preconceptions and a fresh body with no pollutants.* A true fresh start for the Others.


Absolutely!

Crafty...* isn't it "recommended" that mothers-to-be not fly during the 3rd trimester?

kgmaus - Yes you are correct, not an absolute, just HIGHLY recommended not to fly.* *I wasn't trying to drift, I was just wondering if there was any sort of medical/scientific link going all the way back to the beginning of her pregnancy that might make her baby special/different?* I would be suspicious of a Doctor that didn't at least warn her not to fly.* Such as maybe her OB Doctor knew something and wasn't telling Claire? Or the OB Doctor is on alert looking for women with special DNA. Or . .. as BESS noted - maybe she didn't even see one.* (Just exploring all the options!) ;)

I think the only reasons we think the baby is special is because of what the psychic said. However the more I think about the more I believe that the psychic unwittingly put Claire and the baby into the situation he was attempting to avoid. Sorry drifted a bit there.

I don't recall anything medical in relationship to Claire's baby.

Could it be possible...

...that the strange links we're finding between the character's names and famous Artists, Scientists, Musicians, etc....

... is a clue to their genetic history?


That would be VERY interesting. The Others would then need to know which of the survivors are linked to which famous people.

Now....here comes the kicker, I just thought of.....

...what if Claire's genetic background includes.... dun dun duuunnnn... Mary Magdeline.... (cue the Twilight Zone music).

Whoa, kgmaus! I love it -- a logical context for all these coincidental famous last names.* That was brilliant!

But would she really have the same name.....would any of them have it?

if you take genealogy on a Biblical point of view, we are all distant relatives

in fact if we could go back through time (on the genealogy tree) many of us would be freaked to know how related we are to one another

it is especially true for Americans, since the US are a fairly new country

America was founded over 13 colonies (the stripes in the American flag)
The people living there had fled Europe, and if two of us found that one of their ancestor were to be one of these "Mayflower" first immigrants, those two people would probably be relatives

if your family is rooted in America since 1620, then you are most likely to have hundreds of thousands "cousins" in Europe

The mayflower carried 102 people, who settled in the Plymouth Colony
The Mayflower society estimates that those 102 pilgrims now have a descent of more than 10 million people (how's that for a family ? :D )


The point is that the survivors might all be part of the same "family", meaning, on the Genetics thread, that they have DNA similarities, perhaps even a recessive gene common to all of them

perhaps even a recessive gene common to all of them

And a recessive gene will be suppressed unless it's combined with another recessive gene, is that how it goes?* So in order to have blue-eyed offspring, both parents would have to have blue eyes, and brown-eyed people could not produce a blue-eyed child, but brown and green could produce green.... anyway my point being, if genetics are involved in this somehow, a search for people with specific recessive genes would make sense.*

All my genes are pretty much recessive....any takers? :P

"if you take genealogy on a Biblical point of view, we are all distant relatives

in fact if we could go back through time (on the genealogy tree) many of us would be freaked to know how related we are to one another

it is especially true for Americans, since the US are a fairly new country

America was founded over 13 colonies (the stripes in the American flag)
The people living there had fled Europe, and if two of us found that one of their ancestor were to be one of these "Mayflower" first immigrants, those two people would probably be relatives

if your family is rooted in America since 1620, then you are most likely to have hundreds of thousands "cousins" in Europe

The mayflower carried 102 people, who settled in the Plymouth Colony
The Mayflower society estimates that those 102 pilgrims now have a descent of more than 10 million people (how's that for a family ? :D )


The point is that the survivors might all be part of the same "family", meaning, on the Genetics thread, that they have DNA similarities, perhaps even a recessive gene common to all of them"



i don't understand this tarf. as a mayflower, elizabeth and anne, etc descendant i would have way more genetic variety than the average irishman, pole, venetian, german, etc. by 1700 there was english, welsh, scottish, dutch, and german blood in my family. by 1800 you could add irish, swedish, and native american to that first english branch. my son is welsh, english, scottish, swedish, dutch, german, irish, italian, polish, french, cherokee. i fail to see how america, especially america, would be prone to more not less recessive disorders. i think americans have had more opportunity to mingle with other cultures and dna. a welsh dude in cardiff in 1700 would marry a welsh girl. a german in 1750 franhofen would in all likelihood marry a fellow villager. in america at these times they could have married into different families, different cultures, different dna.

And a recessive gene will be suppressed unless it's combined with another recessive gene, is that how it goes?* So in order to have blue-eyed offspring, both parents would have to have blue eyes, and brown-eyed people could not produce a blue-eyed child, but brown and green could produce green.... anyway my point being, if genetics are involved in this somehow, a search for people with specific recessive genes would make sense.*


it is not that simple

i'll take your example

So in order to have blue-eyed offspring, both parents would have to have blue eyes, and brown-eyed people could not produce a blue-eyed child, but brown and green could produce green....


On a gene there are "alleles" one is dominant, the other is recessive
the dominant one is the one that shows, whereas the recessive one is "dormant"

we all posess two gene caracteritic for each "trait" for example the eye color
So if you are blue eye, you can possess *blue and brown caracteristics
let's say that your partner also has blue/brown caracteristics

when the cells separate you only have half of your gene pool in it, which means that if your DNA you have blue/brown caracteristic, the two basic cells (the one in sperm or the ovula) will only have one of those caracteristics

so the man will provide cells that are EITHER *blue or brown (for eye color)
the woman will also provide those caracteristics

dominant and recessive alleles are noted with Upper and lowercase letters
i will call them C and c (for color C being the dominant, and c being the recessive)

So the man has Cc and the woman has Cc also
they would give either C or c "eggs"

when they combine you could have CC, Cc or cc combinations
if C is blue, and c is brown, you could get *CC (blue), Cc (blue) & cc (brown) eyes
in the case of Cc the c recessive allele will be preserved, in the case of CC the c allele is lost

(well in fact brown eyes are dominant over blue eyes, it was just an example based on Kato's quote)

but it would be too simple
for the eye color, there are 3 pairs of alleles (interesting to note that 2 of them are located on chromosome 15 :D )


as far as genetics go, we need to talk about genetic diseases
for instance, let's say that one person in a million has the specific recessive allele for a very rare disease
that person will not have or developp the disease, this person would be called a "carrier" *(how scary is that when you think that Danielle said "they were the carriers")

if this person was to mate with another person having that recessive allele, the child COULD develop the disease if by chance (or actually misfortune) the 2 cells provided by his parents contained the recessive allele (there is a 1 out of 4 chance of that happening)

if the survivors were also "carriers" of a very rare recessive allele, that would be against all mathematical odds that they all were on that plane by mere luck (and that they survived)

And that's maybe why they want the baby, because if both Claire and her exboyfriend were carriers, there would be a 1 to 4 odds that the baby has the genetic "disease" (or blessing, for it could be a gift we would think of as a "power")

Claire dreamt of a "needle", maybe she was just sampled to verify that the baby possessed 2 recessive alleles, and thus would have the wanted caracteristics

The other survivors could also have that recessive allele, and be there as "backups" just in case

Locke, who seems to know a lot about the island tried to separate Boone and Shannon. I can see 2 reasons to that

1st a malevolent issue : Locke knows that Sayid and Shannon have the best chance of eventually coming up with a child with the "disease" in case something goes wrong with Claire

2nd a benevolent issue : Locke knows that if Boone and Shannon were to have an "accident" and conceive together, the baby would have the "disease"

Very interesting tarf, thanks for the explanation!

Would there be any genetic-based reason that men are more likely to carry a specific gene? *I know that either male or female calico cats are really rare (I can't remember which now, but one of them). *I'm just thinking it would explain the ratio of men to women on the island -- maybe it was harder to find women with a specific recessive gene. *

i don't understand this tarf.* as a mayflower, elizabeth and anne, etc descendant i would have way more genetic variety than the average irishman, pole, venetian, german, etc.* by 1700 there was english, welsh, scottish, dutch, and german blood in my family.* by 1800 you could add irish, swedish, and native american to that first english branch.* my son is welsh, english, scottish, swedish, dutch, german, irish, italian, polish, french, cherokee.* i fail to see how america, especially america, would be prone to more not less recessive disorders.* i think americans have had more opportunity to mingle with other cultures and dna.* a welsh dude in cardiff in 1700 would marry a welsh girl.* a german in 1750 franhofen would in all likelihood marry a fellow villager.* in america at these times they could have married into different families, different cultures, different dna.*


i think you failed to see the point
my post was a 2 parter

first part
I was saying that Americans were more likely to have a much wider family, because they are a branch of the "family tree" that grows well outside the american continent. Plus there were many interbreeds, and the need to "colonize" the US, with successive waves of immigration helped that family to even wider
America is a country that is "on the move" since these first pilgrims, as opposed to Europe for example, spread to each end of the country (during the gold rush for example)
That was the part of the "family tree" is was answering, concerning the "genealogy" issue

second part was just widening the things, stating that they could all be "family members" by pointing out the number of relatives anyone could have, whereas the first part was saying that Americans had potentially more relatives than other people
i fail to see where you saw that i was making a connection between recessive allele thing and America, especially if you consider that the survivors come from many places (canada, england, irak, australia, korea etc)

if you read between the lines
1st i was saying that their family could be very wide, and that they all could be related
2nd i was saying that this particular people from all over the globe could share a similar DNA caracteristic

Very interesting tarf, thanks for the explanation!

Would there be any genetic-based reason that men are more likely to carry a specific gene? *I know that either male or female calico cats are really rare (I can't remember which now, but one of them). *I'm just thinking it would explain the ratio of men to women on the island -- maybe it was harder to find women with a specific recessive gene. *


if the recessive allele is located on the "sex gene" you could explain that

Chromosomes X & Y

a woman as a pair of X chromosomes, meaning she is XX
men have a Y chromosome, they are XY

the egg always have a X chromosone (since women only have those)
The father could share either a X or a Y chromosome
if he shares a X it will be a girl, if he shares a Y, it will be a boy

If the recessive allele is located on the X chromosome, it explains why more females than males develop a given caracteristic
The chances of crossing a very rare recessive allele is already slim when they are on chromosomes that we have in identical pairs, but if this is located on a chromosome that are not in identical pairs (X & Y) then the chances are even slimer for a male individual to be born with this caracteristic

So this is where the genetics thread turned up.

Well, considering that no one in their third trimester of preganacy is supposed to be flying, maybe Clair's OBGYN is in on this entire thing.* Who knows??


Actually, I think woman that close to giving birth is not ALLOWED to fly to the US, since they might give birth there and that's not very popular with the US immigrations (the baby get american citizenship).... At least it has been this way before, perhaps it has changed or the rules have been less strict....

Last night's episode probably put paid to this theory, but one thing did occur to me -- we've been talking about the genetics of eye color, and that could tie in to all the closeups of eyes in the flashbacks.* (A very loose tie, but the theory is shot anyway so I'll throw that in as I bid it farewell.)*

Why do you feel the theory's shot, Kato?

polar bears that are comfortable in a hot climate,

To this comment what did you think about the boar that was hanging from the tree. Did anyone notice how high it was hanging and that it appeared as it hung ther after it was trapped something else had come by to take a bite out of its side? Something would have to be pretty tall to reach it.

Kgmaus -- because I can't figure out any way to reconcile the whole numbers thing with genetics. *If they were "chosen" because of some genetic anomaly, and some power just managed to use the right bait to lure them onto that flight... how could that power possibly arrange for someone to win the lottery? *Let alone get those numbers from someone else and then play them and then win the lottery? *And even if that could be arranged, nobody could arrange for all the bad luck Hurley endured, like his grandfather dropping dead. *

I mean, someone could conceivably work backwards: after he won the lottery, plant the numbers on the island and in Danielle's tent and even plant Danielle there to back up the story... but I don't think anyone could arrange for a certain lottery number to come up. *

(Does that make any sense? *I think the Numbers episode has scrambled my brains.)

Welll....

I wouldn't discount genetics just yet.

Your points do approach and discredit the "Others" are influencing the Lostaways... or that they had any involvement getting the poeple on the plane.

I think that knowing they weren't involved, alone is worth celebrating.

One of my own pet theories is that Claire's pregnancy was deliberate -- not on her part, on someone else's. She was taking birth control pills, but they can be tampered with. Maybe there is something about Claire's particular genetic makeup that would make any child of hers special. (As opposed to the baby being special for some paranormal reason.)

Maybe Thomas had something to do with it. He told her that he wanted it, so she wouldn't get an abortion, then took off when it was too late to terminate the pregnancy. He could have tampered with her Birth control pills, and other contreceptive devices.

We're on the same page there, Nzsurfer -- that's exactly what I was thinking, it wasn't fate that put Claire on that plane, it was careful manipulation.*

Good point, Bess.

I'll throw this piece of serendipity into the mix for the heck of it: there's a numbering system for genealogy.* http://www.saintclair.org/numbers/

And for everyone researching the religious angle, "you have 42 generations from
Abraham right down to Christ" from this link: http://www.preachtheword.co.uk/transcripts/christmas3-treasures.html

And, this is #23 on Christ's genealogy chart, from: http://www.recoveryversion.org/matthew.html* ""Behold, the avirgin shall be with child and shall bear a 1son, and they shall call His name 2bEmmanuel" (which is translated, cGod 3with us)."

Note that I just googled around and picked stuff that looked interesting, I didn't follow it up or verify other sources etc.*

For the last Time...no one needed to have tampered with Claire's pills Women on the pill get pregnant on the time. Its NOT foolproof.

It was just a "what if," elfdream... she got pregnant even though she was on the pill.* Possible explanations:

1.* the logical one: pills aren't 100% effective
2.* the nefarious one: something was substituted for the pills, or they were tampered with.

Nobody is saying you're wrong or ignoring your information, they're just choosing #1 or #2 based on whatever theory they're pursuing.*

I've been lurking for a while, and thought I'd chime in. I don't think the Numbers eppy does anything but help the genetic tampering theory - maybe takes it to a different place.

Under the NUMBERS section there is a thread about the Numbers being tied to Numbers Stations. There is a possibility of a link between the Numbers Stations and WWII - spy transmissions possibly from WWII and the cold war era. Obviously there was plenty of activity in the South Pacific at that time.

What else was going on during WWII?? Plenty of interest in human genetic testing.

I don't want to derail the discussion - I just started connecting some dots that may or may not be connectable...
Thanks for tolerating my ramblings.

The Numbers Stations... cool... that was my idea. Here's the thread.

http://www.thefuselage.com/threaded/index.php?topic=8762.0

Welcome. Keep posting.

I think Genetics is still in play. It actually works with some of the theories I am toying with.

I have felt that some type of mind control experiment has been going on for quite sometime now and have posted in other threads. Now I recently read a thread that dealt with the use of Mircowave and Radio frequency (ELF) usage in Mind Control experimentation. This ties into the underground bunkers to protect from accumilation of the waves. Also some of the side effects related to the use of this technology are hearing voices and sterilization. So. here's where the genetics come in, being sterilized they need children from an outside source (Claire's baby) to develope a gene to combat the effects of the microwave, also why they took Alex.

Here's another direction for the genetics subject. After reading this can you see a tie-in with Numbers?


http://www.newmediaexplorer.org/sepp/2003/07/15/is_dna_hypercommunication_a_native_internet.htm

Suppose the numbers were connected to some collected consciousness that interacted with the DNA of others. Suppose exposure to the numbers governs the way a person will react to a set of circumstances. In the case of Sam Toomey, exposure of other people to the numbers would have been minimal, limited to people located in the vicinity. With Hurley, however, the exposure was widespread, hence Leonard's obvious discomfort that Hurley had "opened the box." In other words, Sam Toomey's use of the numbers was contained, but Hurley's had opened the box and now the possibility of exposure of the general population was almost limitless.


shootfire

That's got my mind going a totally different way. How do we know what's going on outside the island? Hurley's lottery win was broadcast over Korean TV. How far did the numbers go? Could there be a link to some kind of successful mass hypnosis?

What if....the mass hyponosis is oriented toward healing psychological wounds and those whose wounds are healed appear to die?

Okay.. far from the genetics angle, I admit. Didn't the psychic say Claire's baby shouldn't be raised by others?

On not flying past 7 mos., it is not forbidden-simply not recommended. Premature labor, seatbelts don't fit, germs in the air, keep the mother-to-be calm, etc. When I was 8 mos. preg, I considered going to my Mother-in-law's funeral, but didn't when I heard those reasons.


What good would all the hairbrushes do? you wouldn't know who each belonged to or whether he was dead or lostaway

just thought i'd say that my read was just the 815th read. i feel special. i am a geneticist.

Genetic algorithms is the answer...........

bookmarked

In the mirror thread, Lostbylost mentioned the pens we have seen in the show. One of the pens that Claire tried to use on the adoption papers was nearly identical to the one Christian gave to Jack to sign his report. I started wondering about that and the fact that Paik, a very powerful man, was also shown with a pen in the show. I got to thinking about how the pens are scattered around the globe, making who knows what happen. Then, I thought about the Pilot episode, when Jack sent Boone to gather pens. He was manipulating Boone to get him out of the way. I think the pens may be symbolic of genetic markers. Before the crash pens were scattered, on the island pens are gathered together in one place.

Another common thread in the show is estrangement. Jack and his father were estranged for at least 2 months. Locke was estranged from his parents for most of his life. Claire had been disowned by her mother. Michael was estranged from his son, alternatively Jin was estranged from his father. The list goes on and on. When families lose track of each other all kinds of weirdness happens. They may have common ancestors, yet be completely unaware of each other. It would certainly make for some interesting connections between the lostaways, without their ever having met before. They may have similarities in personality because of the influence of a common ancestor on their parents.

I'm wondering if the whole scattering of relations around the globe might come into play with Biblical symbolism also. When Adam and Eve were cast out of the Garden of Eden, that action spawned the population of the earth, their descendants scattering all around the globe through the interplay of chance and choice.

Glad the thread got bumped, so I could see it. So many things transpired since it dropped off. I've read through most, but not all of the thread. Great stuff. *:)

Biggest thing, IMO, which supports the theories in this thread, is Nadia. The CIA woman told Sayid, Nadia is alive and working in a medical lab in Irvine, CA. I am convinced that lab is somehow connected to the island.

We have seen that the Others do, in fact, have the means to come and go as they please.

How could they choose who survives.... aaagghhh it's impossible to get around that one and believe me I've tried. *Maybe it didn't matter who survived, the entire plane was full of "chosen" people? *Maybe they weren't supposed to survive, *that's the part that went awry? *Maybe they were removed from the plane somehow before it crashed? *(That one has already taken a beating in another thread. *) *Nope, I've got nothing.

I can't remember who I quoted this from, but for what it's worth, here's my take.

The crash was staged. *dodges people throwing vegetables* Please hear me out for just a minute. *:lol2:

From show dialog, the only person who claims to have not passed out during the plane's descent, is Kate. (she may have and just not realized it)

For this theory to work, the pilot must be an accomplice. IMO, he is not actually dead, but I'll come back to that.

The crash site is arranged on the island, so it is ready.

Getting the right people on the plane is not as logistically unreasonable as one might think. Getting them on the right plane would be relatively simple. (If I'm in an airport needing to go to a particular place and there is only one flight going there at the time, that's the one I'm gonna want to be on. Difficult to arrange, yes ... but not impossible) The hard part would be getting them to all need to be going to the same place, around the same time.

In a quick descent, it would be normal for everyone to pass out. A drug to insure they remained out could then be administered through the ventalation system. Thus, not only giving the Others plenty of time to work, but also giving the lostaways a distorted sense of when they crashed (thus a distorted sense of just how off course they are). This accounts for the time of day discrepancies between when they took off and when they crashed. They could have been unconscious for days.

If genetics experiments are being done on the island, odds are very high that they are being conducted by scientists. Scientists are the biggest pack rats in the world. They throw nothing away. Chances are very high that they have had many failed experiments and therefore it is not at all unreasonable to assume they have a good supply of dead bodies in storage somewhere.

I've flown lots, and only on very rare occasions would I have recognized anyone I had flown with if I had seen them an hour later.

So ... all the "dead bodies" were placed there to represent all the passengers who were removed from the plane to be used first. The dead people had never been on flight 815 at all.

Our lostaways burned the bodies, but they were so concerned with "respect" for the dead, I doubt anyone stripped them first. It is also unlikely that with everything else on his plate at the time,Jack examined them to try and determine if they had died from a plane crash.

Back to the pilot. The Others are monitoring the entire island. They knew Jack & co. were on their way to the cockpit, so they rig the site and place the pilot there. Then they snatch the pilot away in an *unseen* manner. Then they stage a body wearing a pilots uniform up in a tree. They saw the body from below. They did not see a face. They assumed it was the pilot because of the uniform.

I'll stop blathering now. *:)

bookmark

The only problem I have with the 'drugged' theory is how did they account for things like Charlie's habbit and prescription meds? How did they know that their knock out drug wouldn't have a bad reaction with all of that?

If the people were chosen for genetics experimentation, it's not much of a stretch to believe that whoever chose them knows their medical history.

As for Charlie. (and everyone elsee too, actually) Sedatives are the least contradictory drugs, so they would have the lowest risk.

Keep in mind that not everyone survived. It is possible that the drug itself helped to choose who ultimately survived.

I'm pulling this out of the Walt thread, so as not to thread-drift in there and because Bess asked.* :)

I think that genetics is important somehow but I don't know how.* Genetic tampering, engineering, something -- there's a string of things that seem related to genetics but I can't tie them together in any way that makes sense.* The missing hair brushes, Claire's special baby, polar bears that are comfortable in a hot climate, Alex, all the emphasis on fathers... there's something in there.*

One of my own pet theories is that Claire's pregnancy was deliberate -- not on her part, on someone else's.* She was taking birth control pills, but they can be tampered with.* Maybe there is something about Claire's particular genetic makeup that would make any child of hers special.* (As opposed to the baby being special for some paranormal reason.)


I agree that genetics are important--in fact, my very first post to the fuselage was a question about the hairbrush comment way back when (I got no reply). My sense is that the island decided whom to revive from the crash based upon their genetics. Question is: why?

Well, we know that at least a few of our survivors are "special" (Walt, Aaron, and Hurley). Maybe it's something in their genes that explains it. Maybe they're somehow related (genetically) to whatever is controlling the island.

I agree that genetics are important--in fact, my very first post to the fuselage was a question about the hairbrush comment way back when (I got no reply). My sense is that the island decided whom to revive from the crash based upon their genetics. Question is: why?

Well, we know that at least a few of our survivors are "special" (Walt, Aaron, and Hurley). Maybe it's something in their genes that explains it. Maybe they're somehow related (genetically) to whatever is controlling the island.


Yes, some must be special or susceptible. Walt, Claire had the dream of the Black Rock before it was mentioned, Jack has had hallucinations, Locke is in communication with the "Island" ("IT)", Sayid and Sawyer have heard the Whispers, Not sure about Aaron yet but they have led us to believe he is special. Maybe they all have a gene in common that has something to do with Psychic ability. I agree that the hair brush comment was extremely important and not a throw away line.

Yes, some must be special or susceptible.* Walt, Claire had the dream of the Black Rock before it was mentioned, Jack has had hallucinations,* Locke is in communication with the "Island" ("IT)", Sayid and Sawyer have heard the Whispers,* Not sure about Aaron yet but they have led us to believe he is special.* Maybe they all have a gene in common that has something to do with Psychic ability.* I

Some have wondered if perhaps 'the others' weren't psychic as well and wanted Walt to grow up among his own 'kind'.

Some have wondered about the small plane. Did you all notice it gave the castaways everything they needed...to meet up with 'the others'? Hmmm...can the 'others' see the future?

Some have theorized that Charlie was never supposed to come clean. If he had not thrown his baggie away he might have just come to the end of it about the time they found the new stash. Why would someone want to keep him 'stoned'.....did they get a 'blurry' picture and think that a stoned Charlie wouldn't kill Ethan perhaps?

Perhaps Locke is the X factor here.

As much as it pains me to say this, since I find Charlie to be the single most irritating and obnoxious character, I really think his addiction will turn out to be pivotal in some way.

Perhaps the "infection" can't survive in a body on heroin. Or heroin destroys some certain antibody in the system which renders a person either immune, or particularly susceptible to being infected.

Or at least that's the way it would turn out if M. Night Shamalama-ding-dong was writing the story. ;D

As much as it pains me to say this, since I find Charlie to be the single most irritating and obnoxious character, I really think his addiction will turn out to be pivotal in some way.

Perhaps the "infection" can't survive in a body on heroin. Or heroin destroys some certain antibody in the system which renders a person either immune, or particularly susceptible to being infected.

Or at least that's the way it would turn out if M. Night Shamalama-ding-dong was writing the story. ;D


So they all become heroin addicts so that they could be immune- :lol2: :lol2:

So they all become heroin addicts so that they could be immune-* :lol2: :lol2:


thus I included the possibility that the heroin makes you particularly susceptible. ;D

just tossing stuff out there. ;)

I agree that the heroin may have more significance than just being a temptation for Charlie. ;)

I loved this thread - glad it got bumped again.

Perhaps the "infection" can't survive in a body on heroin. Or heroin destroys some certain antibody in the system which renders a person either immune, or particularly susceptible to being infected.


Heroin does a body good :laugh: I like the idea of being able to use a plane full of heroin to benefit
the Lostaways, but it might be a tough sell to ABC. I do think , it is a good theory Sheba.

Or at least that's the way it would turn out if M. Night Shamalama-ding-dong was writing the story.* ;D


Sheba ;D And I thought I was the only one who called M. Night that. :lol2: :lol2:

Sheba* ;D And I thought I was the only one who called M. Night that. :lol2: :lol2:


:lol2: I think a lot of people do. But usually when they are typing rather than speaking. I think most people can say his name, so they're safe in oral conversation, but few people can spell it, so a typed conversation becomes a completely different thing.

:lol2:* I think a lot of people do. But usually when they are typing rather than speaking. I think most people can say his name, so they're safe in oral conversation, but few people can spell it, so a typed conversation becomes a completely different thing.

I just watched "The Village" with my friend Tom and that's how we have been referring to M. Night since the 6th Sense. There are few things that just make you smile from the sheer silliness of saying them. This one does it for us.