I think that Ben is not able to let anyone leave the island due to 1 of 2 reasons:

1- He has been commanded by Jacob to keep these particular people here for the furtherment of the island population, and really has no choice,

2- The Others (and maybe the Losties) on the island have been fundamentally changed in some way that they cannot survive off of the island, at least for very long.

What makes me pause in both of these theories, however, is that both Ethan and Richard have obviously spent time off of the island after having visited the island.


Similarly I have wondered about other "commitments" made by Others to Ben and the group to stay on the island, such as Ben mentioned when talking with Locke.

Any thoughts?

I thought that the scene in OOU where Juliet breaks down in front of Ben, begging him to let her go, was used to show that Ben really loves Juliet, and that's the reason why he's not letting her go.

Obviosly Richard is allowed to leave. My impression is that he's a pretty high ranking Other; Ben said all that stuff to Locke right in front of him.

I thought that the scene in OOU where Juliet breaks down in front of Ben, begging him to let her go, was used to show that Ben really loves Juliet, and that's the reason why he's not letting her go.

Obviosly Richard is allowed to leave. My impression is that he's a pretty high ranking Other; Ben said all that stuff to Locke right in front of him.

Ben loves Juliette? When we didn't know the "relationship" between Ben and Juliette, I thought it may be romantic, but once I saw what it really was, her sister, I doubted it very much.

Ben did not console her in anyway. We see Juliette fall against Ben, but he does not hold her - he just says no, she cannot leave.

I wondered about it also. Ben seems focused on keeping everybody on the Island.

All of your guesses are good ones.

Maybe, Ben cannot leave, for some reason,...and he does not want to be alone, so he makes them believe that it would be futile to try to leave, and if that does not succeed,...he has somebody like Locke, blow up the sub,...(for instance :)).

Obviosly Richard is allowed to leave. My impression is that he's a pretty high ranking Other; Ben said all that stuff to Locke right in front of him.
Who says Richard is allowed to leave?

Why do you think he's ever come and gone? because Ben said "Come on back soon?" Ben is a huge liar...and notice he cut off the Rachel and Son feed before anyone saw 'Richard'.

There's a real probability that one cant 'leave' once arrived. Remember the 'Illusion that they can go home' line from Ben? I think the the 'Sub' is a fraud. It doesnt go anywhere. (We've never seen it anywhere but at the dock). Why?

When Ethan untied Juliet he said "the last flight is pretty rough"....which she did not recall. The sub is a lie, IMO.

[QUOTE=becksmex;1488549]

What makes me pause in both of these theories, however, is that both Ethan and Richard have obviously spent time off of the island after having visited the island.

Maybe they are the only ones that Ben trusts to keep the secret of the island. I think joining the island is a bit like joining the mafia. Once you're in, you can't get out. There doesn't seem to be any physical barrier (at least not until the sky went all purple). I think it's more an issue of keeping the island's secrets... well, secret.

Juliet knows too much to be let go.

Perhaps this is why it was okay for Ben to let Michael and Walt go. They didn't really know anything. I have long thought that the Others main priority since the arrival of the Losties is protecting the secrets of the island -- at any cost. Whatever those secrets are, the Others believe them to be worth killing (and dying) for.

[quote]

Maybe they are the only ones that Ben trusts to keep the secret of the island. I think joining the island is a bit like joining the mafia. Once you're in, you can't get out. There doesn't seem to be any physical barrier (at least not until the sky went all purple). I think it's more an issue of keeping the island's secrets... well, secret.

Juliet knows too much to be let go.

Perhaps this is why it was okay for Ben to let Michael and Walt go. They didn't really know anything. I have long thought that the Others main priority since the arrival of the Losties is protecting the secrets of the island -- at any cost. Whatever those secrets are, the Others believe them to be worth killing (and dying) for.


I totally agree. First of all as for the Sub being a prop, someone else ( i wish i could remember who) brought up the fact that the others used the Sub to sneek up on Sun when she was in the sailboat, so it does run, how well who knows. And Why did they want the sailboat so badly, because you can leave the island. Another reason Micheal was let go is because he did kill 2 people, he's not goona be talking about craphole island to anyone! I said this in another thread, what if the others are on the verg of finding a cure for cancer, until they can figure out how to bottle the islands magic I'm sure they don't want anyone in the outside world finding out about there discovery. Can you imagine the kind of money were talking about?

Who says Richard is allowed to leave?

Uhm, Richard brought Juliette to the Island. Same with Ethan. So, are you saying that Richard and Ethan had never been to the Island before we see them in "Not In Portland?" where they're talking Juliette into coming? I highly doubt this...
100%

Maybe they are the only ones that Ben trusts to keep the secret of the island. I think joining the island is a bit like joining the mafia. Once you're in, you can't get out. There doesn't seem to be any physical barrier (at least not until the sky went all purple). I think it's more an issue of keeping the island's secrets... well, secret.

Juliet knows too much to be let go.

Perhaps this is why it was okay for Ben to let Michael and Walt go. They didn't really know anything. I have long thought that the Others main priority since the arrival of the Losties is protecting the secrets of the island -- at any cost. Whatever those secrets are, the Others believe them to be worth killing (and dying) for.

I like this theory. I think that Ben will never let Juliette go because of the risk that she might tell someone about the Island. If this business about the Island have some kind of special powers that allow people to manifest their desires, it would be mind-blowingly catastrophic if such power were to fall into the hands of someone who would use this for evil ends - truly evil, not just Ben evil... Ben doesn't want to risk that, and so he simply cannot allow Juliet to leave now that she's seen what she has seen.

Plus, I really don't think Michael and Walt have gone anywhere... They'll be showing up again soon, I think...

How about this: The island populace is really a cult. This would explain the unexplained devotion towards Ben and his ideals.

Ben loves Juliette? When we didn't know the "relationship" between Ben and Juliette, I thought it may be romantic, but once I saw what it really was, her sister, I doubted it very much.

Ben did not console her in anyway. We see Juliette fall against Ben, but he does not hold her - he just says no, she cannot leave.

Sorry, I should have explained my thinking a little bit more clearly with this one. When Juliet is crying and throws herself against Ben the camera then cuts to show Ben's expression for a couple seconds. I got the distinct impression that he could hardly restrain himself; he looked sad but at the same time kind of shocked and very much in love. It's just IMO of course, but I noticed it immediately and the fact that the camera pauses on Ben's face means that they were trying to show us something about Ben's feelings at the time, so if you re-watch the episode look out for this scene and tell me what you think.

Why do you think he's ever come and gone? because Ben said "Come on back soon?" Ben is a huge liar...and notice he cut off the Rachel and Son feed before anyone saw 'Richard'.

I'm not sure I understand what you're saying. In both "One of Us" and NIP we definitely saw Alpert and Ethan in Miami. Are you proposing that all those scenes with Alpert, Juliet and Ethan were really taking place on The Island?? I don't get it??

I agree that Ben won't let anyone off the island mostly because they simply can't be left or trusted out in the "real world" with this huge secret. Someone would be bound to talk.

Also, I think Ben and Jacob have visions of a perfect utopian society. Sure they want people they recruit to have the illusion of free will, but as we saw Ben really doesn't want anyone to leaver . . . ever.

Which brings up my last thoughts on the matter -- Michael and Walt. Ben said he was a man of his word and gave Michael the boat. He told him to follow a bearing of 385? and they'd find "rescue." Ben was clearly parsing his words here. Carefully he wanted it to seem like they'd be free but I have a theory that the others/Mittelos/Dharma have a base of operations just outside the island's bubble -- a deep sea oli rig or something of that nature -- where Michael and Walt were taken. I doubt they ever made it back to civilization.

I agree that Ben won't let anyone off the island mostly because they simply can't be left or trusted out in the "real world" with this huge secret. Someone would be bound to talk.

Also, I think Ben and Jacob have visions of a perfect utopian society. Sure they want people they recruit to have the illusion of free will, but as we saw Ben really doesn't want anyone to leaver . . . ever.

Which brings up my last thoughts on the matter -- Michael and Walt. Ben said he was a man of his word and gave Michael the boat. He told him to follow a bearing of 385? and they'd find "rescue." Ben was clearly parsing his words here. Carefully he wanted it to seem like they'd be free but I have a theory that the others/Mittelos/Dharma have a base of operations just outside the island's bubble -- a deep sea oli rig or something of that nature -- where Michael and Walt were taken. I doubt they ever made it back to civilization.


Eight,

I think you and I are of one mind in these matters. ;)

I agree with you Eight about Michael and Walt. I am pretty sure that they found a kind of "Dharma Rescue". But here we have two possibilities:
#Walt has really interesting powers so they will certainly bring him back to the Island.
#Michael and Walt will be brainwashed and then released.

About Ben, I think he is a liar since the begining so we should not taking what he said to Juliet for granted.:drowsy:

How about this: The island populace is really a cult. This would explain the unexplained devotion towards Ben and his ideals.

Okay, many of us agree there is a religious sect/cult among the Others. Witness the unique funerary ceremonies they had, the special jargon/language they share, the common beliefs and values, the blind obedience to authority, the repetition of certain underlying beliefs such as Jacob being some UberMensch, etc. Yes, definitely there's a strong religious cult aspect that appears to be surrounding the Others'.

However, that tdoes not mean that this devotion is unexplainable. We have also been given quite a number of very solid clues as to what the foundation of their belief is. If we are to take what we have been told at face value this cult of the Others has some actual real basis for its existence, which makes it different from all other cults. In other words, if the "Box" or whatever really does do what Ben claims it does - manifests desires - this would be something that would most definitely be the basis of forming a cult in order to understand how to use such a thing, and how to protect it from falling into the hands of the wrong people.

I think the simplest and most plausible answer is that Ben is a megalomaniac. If he "runs" things then it would be a sign of weakness to let your underlings go.

I'm not sure I understand what you're saying. In both "One of Us" and NIP we definitely saw Alpert and Ethan in Miami. Are you proposing that all those scenes with Alpert, Juliet and Ethan were really taking place on The Island?? I don't get it??

Im just saying that there's no proof anyone has come and left. We see Richard in Miami before Juliet comes to the Island. At some point Richard has also come to the island, sometime before TMFT. We dont know when. If he was the 'cameraman' with Rachel, Ben didnt seem to think we needed to see or hear him. It's not that big one way or another.

But the point is that I dont think once you've arrived that you can ever leave, and Ben needs to keep that fact to himself. So the "Richard come back soon" line was likely a ruse to promote the illusion.

And I doubt the sub is anything but a prop in that ruse...people show up some other way and are brought to in their bunk. The tranq-aide is just more deception in the deception...and Juliet being 'hoarse' was too much like Locke after the hatch implosion event.

I think most of the Others we know from the Barracks were brought to the island as part of an experiment in order to find the definetive cure for cancer using the island's specialness via Jacob. All the Others have cancer, but as long as they stay on the island, their cancer is gone.(no traces of cancer, like Ben himself said). The trick is that as soon as they leave the island, their cancer is back with a vengence. That could be enough reason not to want to leave this place. And if there is a real Organization (Mittelos Bioscience or DHARMA) behind this, I believe they are desperately trying to find a way to make this work outside the island. Imagine the importance of this discovery for humanity! Imagine also the humongous amount of money involved in this 'cure'...
Ben doesn't want any other with cancer leave the island because he doesn't want them to die. The question is: do they know they are gonna die if they leave? Did Ben tell them that part? If he didn't, how is he keeping all these people on the island by their own will?
Here's where the 'religious, mystical' part of the story comes into play...
There is a 'magic box' that grants all your wishes if you are worthy of it. Could this be the reason the others choose to stay? Because some of their most longed dreams become real on the island?
My expansion on this theory states that whatever is behind the special powers of the island, it being a person (Jacob?) or some bizarre life form also depends on people for its own survival and existance. These 'entity' draws power from people's beliefs or faith in it to keep it self ALIVE. No people on the island may mean NO ISLAND to live on.
Ben and this 'thing' may have a deal going on. You keep good people on the island that believes in this 'magic box' and I will grant you and your people your wishes...