This might be a little convoluted, but I wanted to get it out before I forget or confuse myself even more....LOL

At the end of season 2, TPTB said that by the end of season 3 we would see that events occurring on the Island were having an impact off the Island. Here is what I'm thinking....

In the original timeline, Desmond performed all of the events we have seen so far that resulted in his original arrival on the Island. He was rescued by Kelvin and then brought to the Swan hatch to push the button, etc. Desmond followed Kelvin that one day, killed him and as a result of being late on his return to the Swan, the anomaly brought down Flight 815. ("lost time" hint perhaps?) This was a deviation from what the universe had already charted, and as such Flight 815 crashed there and the Losties survived instead of crashing somewhere else and dying as the universe had intended.


Fast forward and we arrive at the end of season 2 when Desmond uses the failsafe key in the Swan. We know that he experienced a phenomenon which took him back in time before his arrival on the Island. When he took the cricket bat to the head inside the pub that was meant for the bartender, he again changed something that was meant to be, which caused even worse consequences. In the universe’s intended path, the plane really did crash and everyone on board died. In Desmond's original past, the bartender took the hit and Desmond went on with his life, following all of the events that resulted in him eventually arriving on the Island. The Losties crash there because of Desmond’s initial change when he killed Kelvin, and we have the story we have seen so far. But when he jumped back in time and took that cricket bat to the head, he was likely out of commission for awhile which ended up with him arriving at the Island later than he originally did.


Because Desmond was late arriving, Kelvin was still in the Swan pushing the button on schedule which means that Flight 815 never crashed on the Island but perhaps somewhere else, and everyone was confirmed dead – this is why the parachutist sounded incredulous when Hurley told her they were the survivors of Flight 815 because as far as the real world off the Island is concerned they were all found to be dead. But as we know, Desmond’s late button push let the Losties live despite the fact that on the “real” timeline they were supposed to crash somewhere else and die. This places them in a purgatory of sorts, because they are supposed to be dead but they are not. As far as the real world is concerned, they are dead and gone, but on the Island they are actually very much alive and well. If you look at things on a grander scale, there are actually 2 of every person that was on the plane. 1 for each timeline - 2 Jack’s, 2 Kate’s, 2 Sawyer’s, etc. (bad twins??) The original Jack, Kate, etc died in the crash that was supposed to happen. When it didn’t happen, time skewed off and created us an additional Jack, Kate, Sawyer, etc.


When Desmond found Kelvin drunk near the failsafe he said that by turning that key "all of this would go away". Kelvin knew that turning the failsafe would allow someone to jump back in time and potentially make changes to the past that would have dire consequences down the road. He also knew that he could save himself by turning the key, but at what cost? That's what is/was being protected on the Island - a strange magnetic anomaly that would allow someone to jump back in time. DHARMA knew of the catastrophic events that would occur if someone changed an event in the past, which was why it was being protected.


When Desmond changed that event in the past, it resulted in him arriving later that originally intended as I mentioned earlier and the island crash never happened, Desmond never turned the failsafe, and things proceeded as intended. When events didn’t go as intended, this resulted in another skew that essentially removed the Island from existence on what I'll refer to as "our" timeline. This is why no one can apparently "find" the Island, because in the "real" timeline it doesn't exist. (this could also explain Ben’s comment about how “God can’t see us here) The Others did have the ability to communicate with the outside world before the failsafe was activated but as Tom mentioned "our comms have been down since the sky turned purple". What really happened was the Island was removed from our timeline and placed onto another. To the "real" world, the Island doesn't exist anymore because of Desmond's change.


I think Ben has the same abilities as Desmond, and he knew that really bad things would happen if someone were to change the path the universe had already charted by changing the past. That's why Ben is so adamant on not allowing anyone to leave the Island. He knows the course the universe it taking, and knows that allowing it to run its course without intervention is the only way to save everyone. But now that Desmond has changed things, Ben is scrambling to find a counter-move to Desmond's change. As long as Desmond continues to change things that should happen, reality will be bouncing back and forth on a teeter-totter of sorts.


Ben's mission is to ensure that every change to the past is countered with another event so they can try to bring a balance back to the Island which would make it "reappear" and set things right. I think eventually Desmond is going to be forced to make a decision on whether to sacrifice the Losties by letting things run their true course in an effort to bring things back to balance, or continue saving them. (That's an even BIGGER catch-22 as well – damned if you do, damned if you don’t). If he lets things run their course and bring things back to their original state, the Losties end up crashing and dying somewhere else (“found” versus “lost”), and Desmond remains on the Island indefinitely doing his button pushing as intended.


On the other hand, if he continues to save them they will be stuck on the Island forever because to the "real" time they don't exist. As long as Desmond keeps changing things, they are digging themselves an even deeper hole so to speak. Keep changing things, and everyone is “Lost” forever. This is probably full of holes, but I’ve been sick with the flu for the last week and my meds may be showing their effects…. LOL anyone care to run with this or offer suggestions/possibilities?

I really WANT to read this, because what I have read so far sounds like a great theory. But seriously....break this up into some paragraphs. It's nearly impossible to read.

Trying again....

This might be a little convoluted, but I wanted to get it out before I forget or confuse myself even more....LOL

At the end of season 2, TPTB said that by the end of season 3 we would see that events occurring on the Island were having an impact off the Island. Here is what I'm thinking....

In the original timeline, Desmond performed all of the events we have seen so far that resulted in his original arrival on the Island. He was rescued by Radzinski and then brought to the Swan hatch to push the button, etc. Desmond followed Radzinski that one day, killed him and as a result of being late on his return to the Swan, the anomaly brought down Flight 815. ("lost time" hint perhaps?) This was a deviation from what the universe had already charted, and as such Flight 815 crashed there and the Losties survived instead of crashing somewhere else and dying as the universe had intended.
Fast forward and we arrive at the end of season 2 when Desmond uses the failsafe key in the Swan. We know that he experienced a phenomenon which took him back in time before his arrival on the Island. When he took the cricket bat to the head inside the pub that was meant for the bartender, he again changed something that was meant to be, which caused even worse consequences. In the universe’s intended path, the plane really did crash and everyone on board died. In Desmond's original past, the bartender took the hit and Desmond went on with his life, following all of the events that resulted in him eventually arriving on the Island. The Losties crash there because of Desmond’s initial change when he killed Radzinsky, and we have the story we have seen so far. But when he jumped back in time and took that cricket bat to the head, he was likely out of commission for awhile which ended up with him arriving at the Island later than he originally did. Because Desmond was late arriving, Radzinski was still in the Swan pushing the button on schedule which means that Flight 815 never crashed on the Island but perhaps somewhere else, and everyone was confirmed dead – this is why the parachutist sounded incredulous when Hurley told her they were the survivors of Flight 815 because as far as the real world off the Island is concerned they were all found to be dead. But as we know, Desmond’s late button push let the Losties live despite the fact that on the “real” timeline they were supposed to crash somewhere else and die. This places them in a purgatory of sorts, because they are supposed to be dead but they are not. As far as the real world is concerned, they are dead and gone, but on the Island they are actually very much alive and well. If you look at things on a grander scale, there are actually 2 of every person that was on the plane. 1 for each timeline - 2 Jack’s, 2 Kate’s, 2 Sawyer’s, etc. (bad twins??) The original Jack, Kate, etc died in the crash that was supposed to happen. When it didn’t happen, time skewed off and created us an additional Jack, Kate, Sawyer, etc.
When Desmond found Radzinski drunk near the failsafe he said that by turning that key "all of this would go away". Radzinski knew that turning the failsafe would allow someone to jump back in time and potentially make changes to the past that would have dire consequences down the road. He also knew that he could save himself by turning the key, but at what cost? That's what is/was being protected on the Island - a strange magnetic anomaly that would allow someone to jump back in time. DHARMA knew of the catastrophic events that would occur if someone changed an event in the past, which was why it was being protected.
When Desmond changed that event in the past, it resulted in him arriving later that originally intended as I mentioned earlier and the island crash never happened, Desmond never turned the failsafe, and things proceeded as intended. When events didn’t go as intended, this resulted in another skew that essentially removed the Island from existence on what I'll refer to as "our" timeline. This is why no one can apparently "find" the Island, because in the "real" timeline it doesn't exist. (this could also explain Ben’s comment about how “God can’t see us here) The Others did have the ability to communicate with the outside world before the failsafe was activated but as Tom mentioned "our comms have been down since the sky turned purple". What really happened was the Island was removed from our timeline and placed onto another. To the "real" world, the Island doesn't exist anymore because of Desmond's change. I think Ben has the same abilities as Desmond, and he knew that really bad things would happen if someone were to change the path the universe had already charted by changing the past. That's why Ben is so adamant on not allowing anyone to leave the Island. He knows the course the universe it taking, and knows that allowing it to run its course without intervention is the only way to save everyone. But now that Desmond has changed things, Ben is scrambling to find a counter-move to Desmond's change. As long as Desmond continues to change things that should happen, reality will be bouncing back and forth on a teeter-totter of sorts. Ben's mission is to ensure that every change to the past is countered with another event so they can try to bring a balance back to the Island which would make it "reappear" and set things right. I think eventually Desmond is going to be forced to make a decision on whether to sacrifice the Losties by letting things run their true course in an effort to bring things back to balance, or continue saving them. (That's an even BIGGER catch-22 as well – damned if you do, damned if you don’t). If he lets things run their course and bring things back to their original state, the Losties end up crashing and dying somewhere else (“found” versus “lost”), and Desmond remains on the Island indefinitely doing his button pushing as intended. On the other hand, if he continues to save them they will be stuck on the Island forever because to the "real" time they don't exist. As long as Desmond keeps changing things, they are digging themselves an even deeper hole so to speak. Keep changing things, and everyone is “Lost” forever. This is probably full of holes, but I’ve been sick with the flu for the last week and my meds may be showing their effects…. LOL anyone care to run with this or offer suggestions/possibilities?


The only problem with your theory is that for Desmond to be destined to turn the key, Locke needs to be present. So in the original timeline the plane is supposed to crash so Locke can end up on the island and prevent Desmond from committing sucicide i.e season 1 and destroying the computer forcing Desmond to have to turn the key. WIthout Locke, Desmond would have eventually comitted suicide and the world would have been Lost. Locke was as much fated to be there as Desmond was. Desmond needed to be steered towards the island for him to end up there and Desmond needed to be on the island to not push the numbers for Locke to end up there.

It comes down to the who saving the universe thing, Locke and Desmond being on the island are the key.

i agree....seriously, paragraphs

Yeah thats a really good post, besides the fact Radzinsky was the guy who killed himself, Kelvin was the guy who saved Desmond haha.

Sorry guys, I don't know why I was thinking Radzinsky...I changed it to Kelvin :) I tried putting indents in there for paragraphs and it would take the changes, so I just broke them apart with empty lines...

Dude, your theory has me totally confused lol.. am I the only one who thinks all the Losties are destined to save the world or something??

I think I'm confused too... I'll have to re-read it, but my first reaction is the following:

What about Rousseau? (sp?)

Hasn't she been there for 16 years or something?

Too long to read it.

Can you give the Readers Digest version?

I like the overall premise of the theory.

That Desmond "going back" and getting hit in the head with the cricket bat has caused changes in the timline a'la The Butterfly Effect (like the producers mentioned like you said) and that maybe this has caused the anomaly and explain two 815's as it were.

I got halfway through and then just came to the conclusion there is an easier, less complicated reason. Someone wanted them on the island, wanted them to stay on the island after the crash, and for that to happen, they had to make sure no rescue attempt or massive search would be conducted. So, there is wreckage that is found, no survivors found (which is not the same thing as finding dead bodies, btw) and the case is closed.


And did TPTB say the events on the island would impact things off the island, or that things off island would impact the island, or both? After all, the failsafe key being turned and the purple sky event did register on the radar station in the snowy place, so that was off island. And I believe the Lostaways are going to be celebrating Christmas soon, by my count tonight was Dec. 20, 2004 on the island.

hmm. I'm not sure. this isn't star trek. I think you may be reading a little bit too much into it. well developed, but I think it's a bit complex.

I believe the hatch and comm station blowing up probably has a huge effect on the outside world.

And I believe the Lostaways are going to be celebrating Christmas soon, by my count tonight was Dec. 20, 2004 on the island.

I think TPTB said they may touch upon Christmas in an upcoming episode in Season 4 after someone mentioned the "Thanksgiving" line in Expose on the podcast.

I like the overall premise of the theory.

That Desmond "going back" and getting hit in the head with the cricket bat has caused changes in the timline a'la The Butterfly Effect (like the producers mentioned like you said) and that maybe this has caused the anomaly and explain two 815's as it were.


Thanks Deadshot, I know that all my thoughts were kind of spilling out when I was typing so I was hoping someone would be able to get my general idea :) If Desmond changed something in the past that was NOT supposed to happen (him taking the cricket bat to the face instead of the bartender) then this would have an impact on how things transpired down the road. He was DESTINED to push that button according to the ring lady... to keep an accident like Flight 815 crashing there from happening. Because he followed Kelvin that day and was late getting back, he FAILED to do his duty and Flight 815 crashed. It was not supposed to - Flight 815 was destined to crash somewhere else and kill everyone on board.
When Desmond jumped back in time, he took the cricket bat to the head instead of the bartender. Though we thought this was a tiny, insignificant change; this little ripple had far greater effects down the line. If he was laid up in a hospital for even a day or two, this would change the date that he originally arrived on the Island, meaning that Kelvin was still doing his button pushing and Flight 815 flew over the Island, crashed somewhere else and killed everyone on board as it was SUPPOSED to happen. So you could kind of say that when Desmond went back in time, he actually "fixed" things that were supposed to happen and all of the Losties died as they were supposed to.
But what actually happened, is he created an altered timeline that resulted in the Losties being alive and well on the Island but to the real world they actually were confirmed to have died. The Island is apparently on some sort of alternate timeline which makes the Losties actually exist in 2 different places. In the original timeline, they are dead. In this new timeline they are alive and well. I know this isn't Star Trek, and the whole timeline sounds far-fetched to some, but take this as an example from a very popular movie - Back to the Future Part II.
You could compare Desmond to Biff Tannen in this example... Biff jumped back in time and gave himself the almanac so that he could correctly "predict" every sporting event for the next 20 years. Because he made this change in the past, a new timeline was created that resulted in a completely different future, but was very much real to the people who were existing in it. In order to merge that timeline back into the REAL timeline, events had to be corrected that were altered in the past... hopefully this example makes my original post a little easier to understand... thoughts?
100%
Another thing I was just thinking about was that maybe the parachutist is an assassin of sorts? She was carrying a photo of Desmond so that she could identify him when the time came. I wonder if the people pulling the strings off the Island determined that Desmond was responsible for all the bad things happening on the Island (or maybe even the outside world) because of his screwing with the past and altering the intended path the universe created by continuing to save Charlie and she was sent to eliminate him so that things could return to their normal "timeline" and events happen as they intended to

I think this lends a lot of support to the idea of parallel universes, a split in reality that happened with Des turning the failsafe and going back in time. So it is more than just a butterfly effect, there are actually two realities happening at the same time, perhaps Desmond's flashes are not accurate because they are drawn from this other plane of reality. This would also explain the two pictures of Pen and Des, and perhaps give us some hope for dear Charlie. This is also helpful because it means the our losties weren't simultaneously on the 815 w/o survivors and the plane that crashed on the island. None of that sloppy TNG time loop stuff.

There are also perhaps some implications within this for the coms being down, although there are probably simpler explanations for that.

Dude, I love your creativity. It's a nice theory, and I think it is plausible. I just feel that there is a much simpler answer to what's going on, though what do I know. The one thing I do know, is that you're skating on thin ice whenever you deal with "purgatory thoery" because it has been know for a WHILE that it's been debunked by TPTB. Keep it coming though, and I hope you're feeling better now!

Love your theory! There are so many possibilities with this show....in fact, I hope the final conclusion of the show is something as complex as this...because if it's something simple (like it was all a dream or something lame like that) I'm gonna be really mad! :rolleyes:

It makes me wonder....with the idea of two realities running at the same time....is the culmination of all of this going to result in the two realities becoming one? Seems like there are two factions, each trying to get to "their" version of reality, and eventually with enough "do-overs" we'll finally get to the right one...?

Or maybe I just have the flu too! ;p

I have been thinking along similar lines, just couldn't put it into words as well as you did. I think that this time travel stuff, and the fact that there may be multiple iterations of a singler person's life are the reasons that pregnancy kills women who conceive on the island. I think the fathers are from different "times" than the mothers (or maybe the father has always been Ben?). I don't think Sun's pregnancy will be an issue, since she and Jin came to the island together.

I think that this effect has to do with an experiment performed by Rupert Sheldrake (see his website for details): On one side of the Atlantic, researchers taught rats to go through a maze. On the other side of the Atlantic, another group of rats were taught the same thing, but they learned it much faster than normal. It is as if the earlier set of rats transmitted the information into a "field" where the other rats could access the information and learn faster. I think the experiments on the Island are like that--trying to create a perfect group of humans who can then transmit the way to peace, etc. into a "field" where the human race can access it. The Island is a place where the field is particularly strong. Google "morphic resonance" for more info as well.

Dude, I love your creativity. It's a nice theory, and I think it is plausible. I just feel that there is a much simpler answer to what's going on, though what do I know.
I agree, but that being said - this is one of the best, plausible, and most developed theories I have ever read! You should write when you're sick more often! :)

Good theory, I just can't help thinking about how in the world the producers are gonna be able to explain this in the show lol.

However, I do think you have it backwards. The Losties are supposed to be alive. The original timeline (with Desmond not getting the bat in the face, going to the island, following Kelvin, getting late to the button, Flight 815 crashing, and all the Losties surviving) is the "correct" one, because no one had interfered with the past at that point. When Desmond turned the key and went back in time and got the bat to the face, he changed the past and didn't make it to the island in time. Flight 815 flew over the island and crashed somewhere else, and all the Losties died. This is the time line that is "incorrect" because Desmond messed with the past and created a new future, one where he didn't cause Flight 815 to crash.

I like the thought that this change in the past removed the island from reality and they have to let the universe "course correct" to get back in.

I absolutely love this theory, even if it is a bit complicated.

I know it sounds complicated, but if you look at it in terms of the "Back to the Future Part II" scenario I compared it to a few posts back, it would be incredibly easy for TPTB to explain this to the audience.

Basically, Desmond made that tiny change in the past which created a small ripple in the timeline which skewed off into another reality. As the results of that change continued along time, it got bigger and bigger until it resulted in the crash of 815 and everyone dying. Before Desmond jumped back in time, the real world was still searching for Flight 815 and its survivors. However because of that small changed, it altered the future which changed the original outcome of the flight and instead of crashing on the Island they crashed somewhere else and died; and that's why the parachutist was confused when Hurley said they were the survivors of 815. The Losties are alive and well on the Island on "their" timeline, but in the real world's timeline they are dead. When the parachutist landed on the Island, she essentially removed herself from the real world timeline and placed herself in the Lostie's timeline. This could also explain 2 other things I just thought of:

The radios and sat phones don't work because who is out there listening, or providing a signal for them to work? They don't exist in the real world, so naturally those things wouldn't work.

The other thing is Hurley's comment to Sayid about "or maybe another time" when they were discussing the radio station signal they picked up on the radio on the beach in Season 2.

And one last thing - The Whispers could actually be the reverse of what we originally thought them to be (or at least me), which were ghosts or paranormal activity from previous inhabitants of the Island. What if the Whispers are actually DHARMA scientists in the real world that have the capability of monitoring and watching the Losties while they exist in this alternate timeline, and what we hear is a sort of intereference that travels between both timelines?

If you've seen the movie Deja Vu, you could kind of compare it to that. In that movie, Denzel Washington and the other scientists are monitoring people in the past via a technology that allows them to see x number of days in the past. When Denzel takes a laser pointer and shines it on the "monitor" that they watch when observing people in the past, the people on the other side react to it as if it were really there. This could be the same kind of thing that the Whispers are doing except they are not looking through the past... they have a way of monitoring those in this alternate timeline, but an unforeseen side effect is that when they are doing this, the people in the other timeline can actually faintly hear them talking amongt themselves in the form of the Whispers...

Thoughts?
.

The only immediate thing I'm thinking of though is that there would have been lot's of time between the time Dez gets hit by the bat and when he gets to the island for the universe, Mrs Hawkings/Brother what's his name, or some other time cop to course correct and make sure that Dez does get out there and push that button.

Don't get me wrong, I'm on board about the timeline being split, and I really like what TheArtist added to it. Whether it happened the way you suggest or something else I think your on the right track in explaining how there can be 2 different events. The duplicate pictures, Desmonds trip back in time, the attention to course correction etc, things TPTB accidentally let out of the bag, make a strong case for this.

In truth, I couldn't get to sleep last night because I was trying to figure out how 2 timelines could have occured, plus the night before I watched Donnie Darko. And I have a flu too whooooooooo fever!

I just thought of something, what if that bat to the head in the bar killed Desmond in the second timeline created from Des going back and changing things? Then Penny gets the picture from Desmond's pocket, and at the funeral Desmonds Proff friend starts telling Penny about the crazy story Des was talking. Since Widmore Industries and Hanso are related (it's canon, they even have floors in the same building), Penny remembers something about the Dharma Initiative and the experiments and that gets the ball rolling. Meanwhile, since in the alternate timeling Dez wasn't there to push the button and the plane went off course,crashed and nobody lived.

Man I hope this doesn't get buried to the third page and forgotten about.

I love Back to the Future. i love your theory...But the only thing I can't understand is HOW the parachute lady can cross timelines. Shouldn't there also be 2 parachutists, one in each timeline. Acording to your theory the timelines should look like this:

"Desmond does not change past" Timeline : Losties die. Penny sends parachutist. Parachutist knows Flight 815 is confirmed crashed.
Parachutist meets Desmond. Parachutist never sees Losties.

"Desmond does change past" Timeline: Losties survive. Pennys sends parachutist. Parachutist knows Flight 815 is still lost .Parachutist meets Desmond. Parachutist meets Losties.

BUT we are not seeing 1 of the 2 cases. We are seeing a mix. Why did the parachutist say they were all dead? She's from the SAME timeline.

I think the world outside LOST island is expecting a very large tsunami (granted, in the wrong ocean) on the day after Christmas. Which if we're currently 90 days from the crash (Sep 22, 2004) puts us just a couple days before that.

Betcha $5 that that's the effect on the outside world. What causes it... no guess.

Nice theory (even if that exact theme has already been discussed before especially in the Catch 22 thread).

And yes it's not complicated, many mainstream movies and books had the same plot: Butterfly Effect, The Time Machine, Back to the Future, Deja Vu, Donnie Darko...

My main issue was about thinking outside "your box", ie the things that happened outside your theory, such as all the coincidences we see in the flashbacks (why are these people all somehow linked?).
And then I thought of the time cops: Someone needs these people to be on the island (to save the world?), and that person sent time cops in time/in parallel universes to make all of our losties sit in flight 815.
But what makes these losties so special? I don't know yet.

Gee, that's a lot to think about. And a great theory. Maybe something similar happened before ("the incident" referred to on the Orientation film), that similarly affected the Dharma folks, Rousseau, the Others, etc. Maybe the anomaly has caused similar time/reality shifts before, too (the Black Rock, Adam & Eve).

Maybe the island has long been stuck in this "quantum pocket," and every time the power of the anomaly is unleashed, the people, events, etc. that have been changed by fiddling with the past get pushed out of reality and into the pocket.

Oh well, time for bed.

I posted this theory an hour after I saw the show in this thread

http://www.thefuselage.com/Threaded/showthread.php?t=77433

I didnt spell it all out because people dont read long posts..in fact most of them laughed what little I wrote into stupidity..when in fact it is probably correct

I knew Desmonds TTravel created a duplicate photo(argue if you guys want..but he did). So I was just waiting for something else to be duplicated--and we found out it may be Flight 815

My details were The bartender was either on the plane(because his life was altered by not being hit)--or he or Des altered someone elses path which caused the plane to have a different weight/slightly delayed departure..or something else that prevented it from being sucked toward the Island.

I dont think any Island events were changed though.

So your missing the Photo..which is the foundation of the theory

I like your imaginative theory. However, my big question is -- if pushing the button is so important and Ben is in charge of the Earth's timeline, then why did he not seem phased by the purple sky event? Also, why did he not have his own team of Others working the button in the Swan if its so important? Based on your theory, one would think that the Swan would be Other Central with armed guards, etc.

And, if he is trying to out play Desmond, why doesn't he just send a team of thugs to kidnap him and stop him from changing everything?

The Whispers could actually be the reverse of what we originally thought them to be (or at least me), which were ghosts or paranormal activity from previous inhabitants of the Island. What if the Whispers are actually DHARMA scientists in the real world that have the capability of monitoring and watching the Losties while they exist in this alternate timeline, and what we hear is a sort of interference that travels between both timelines?Outstanding.

I've always been intrigued with the nature of the Whispers and never bought into paranormal or spiritual explanation. I have the feeling that these whispers were coming from people who are not just monitoring the survivors, but who are somehow there with them somehow (yet undetected.)

Also, I think the whispers work both ways. That is, they are experienced in both realities. It just seems that one side is better at receiving and decoding what's coming through from the "other side."

Now, if you want to go way out there... Maybe every time we see the trademark close-up of an eye opening, it's a signal to us that we're switching between realities. Or, that they're switching between time lines. Or something.....

I like this theory as an overall "island time" explanation.. Back to the Future and Donnie Darko have been playing through my thoughts since C22.

I especially like the theory that the "whispers" are coming from another timeline that's monitoring the "island"!! I'm not totally convinced that Ben is guardian of time though, maybe its just me but I can't quite get my head around that one!

Also, I don't know how this explains Michael and Walt being able to "leave " the island (if indeed they have..) And, as someone mentioned before, there's still the question of all the connections between Losties pre-crash??

The parachutist also presents a problem, ie.. how did she get through the "time corridor" into the alternate reality?? And WHY? I don't believe that she was an assassin as there were no weapons, as far as I can recall, found in her belongings or on her body??

Your theory is very clever though, and well thought out!!

The parachutist also presents a problem, ie.. how did she get through the "time corridor" into the alternate reality??

Yes, that is a problem. Is it meaningful that Russeau and Desmond arrived at the island during a storm? Maybe a lightning storm disrupts the electromagnetic anomaly and provides a way in? Still, that scenario doesn't appear to help the parachutist.

I agree with this...You are really on to something here. The have been so many references to the duality of things. Black and White pieces, man of science, man of faith, bad twin...it's not cloning. It's dual existence in parallel time. Think this out some more. This is the beginning of solving what's going on.

Halcyon:

This is by far the best theory I have seen on a parallel universe.
And I love this theory of yours about what the whispers really are:


And one last thing - The Whispers could actually be the reverse of what we originally thought them to be (or at least me), which were ghosts or paranormal activity from previous inhabitants of the Island. What if the Whispers are actually DHARMA scientists in the real world that have the capability of monitoring and watching the Losties while they exist in this alternate timeline, and what we hear is a sort of intereference that travels between both timelines?

Nothing to add but keep up the theorizing. I'm enjoying the read!!

ETA: The parachutist also was involved in a landing during a storm -- wasn't it very cloudy in the sky where the copter would have been? And it was raining at the site near her crash because the boys were walking in the rain.

Of all the thoughts circulating on this website, I like, and concur with, this thought the most. It makes perfect sense to me and you did a terrific job explaining it. I was getting disinterested in the show a few weeks ago, but the last few epi's have been great with wonderful surprises and I can't wait for the end of the season to see where it leads us for next year.

Anyway, keep those thoughts coming. Yours are the most promising so far.

great theory! blew me away!

I think eventually Desmond is going to be forced to make a decision on whether to sacrifice the Losties by letting things run their true course in an effort to bring things back to balance, or continue saving them. (That's an even BIGGER catch-22 as well – damned if you do, damned if you don’t). If he lets things run their course and bring things back to their original state, the Losties end up crashing and dying somewhere else (“found” versus “lost”), and Desmond remains on the Island indefinitely doing his button pushing as intended.


Could also explain why he keeps seeing Charlie dying -- Charlie is "meant" to be dead with your theory.

I think someone else mentioned this: The fact Locke causes the need to turn the failsafe key seems to be the big flaw right now. How does Locke get there if the only reason he gets there is because the key was turned in the first place????

I love Back to the Future. i love your theory...But the only thing I can't understand is HOW the parachute lady can cross timelines. Shouldn't there also be 2 parachutists, one in each timeline. Acording to your theory the timelines should look like this:

"Desmond does not change past" Timeline : Losties die. Penny sends parachutist. Parachutist knows Flight 815 is confirmed crashed.
Parachutist meets Desmond. Parachutist never sees Losties.

"Desmond does change past" Timeline: Losties survive. Pennys sends parachutist. Parachutist knows Flight 815 is still lost .Parachutist meets Desmond. Parachutist meets Losties.

BUT we are not seeing 1 of the 2 cases. We are seeing a mix. Why did the parachutist say they were all dead? She's from the SAME timeline.

My thoughts are that the island is in a time bubble and still in the original timeline where Des has the picture, while the rest of the world is in the altered timeline. So the part of Penny with the picture and the parachute girl are also coming from the altered timeline. I think Des taking the bat to the head was the big changer in his flashback, maybe the bartender called Penny and she came to pick him up. Maybe Des gave her the picture then, or maybe Des even died.

This thread got me thinking…

I’m starting to think that the inability to conceive a child on the island may be a necessary condition to avoid a paradox (or paradoxes) that could potentially occur due to time travel, multiple universes, “course corrections” or your personal favorite theory. Maybe it’s possible that the island exists in a state of altered reality and constitutes only a reflection of another (or true) reality. You cannot create something new on the island because it is merely a reflection of someplace (sometime?) else.

I guess more simply put: you need to have an existence prior to your existence on the island. You cannot begin your existence there. This could be a resulting condition of whatever it is that's going on. Start unraveling why that condition exists, and you start unraveling what's really happening.

Hmmm…..

Oh that is an excellent point Purplesky. That fits in quite well with this theory and would explain the medical nuances of the island.

PurpleSky/TK 421 - Both of your last posts are excellent points... I'm wondering if the Island is essentially located at the "doorway" into this alternate timeline, and the problem is that once you arrive there you can't get back out. When the parachutist arrived on the Island, she slipped through the "doorway" into the alternate timeline and she was originally expecting it to be abandoned or for only Desmond to be there? That's why she was confused about Hurley's comments about being the 815 survivors...in her reality, 815 was found and everyone was dead.

PurpleSky - I like this idea about the mirror/reflection and inability to create something new that is merely a reflection of the original. In the podcast for Catch 22, Damon and Carlton said in response to a viewer question that:
Ben was conceived in a traditional manner by a mother and father, and though he said he had spent his entire life on the Island, that didn't necessarily mean he was CONCEIVED there, he could've been brought there as a baby or conceived off the Island and born on it ala Aaron

Which again brings me back to my thoughts that once you come to the Island (i.e. step through that doorway into an alternate timeline), you can't come back, but you can still be observed and communicated with via DHARMA scientists on the flip side via the Whispers. Perhaps the original intent of the Swan/Button was to prevent people from accidentally stumbling through the "doorway" so to speak. As long as the button was pushed, the Island/doorway was hidden from outside eyes and only the DI/Others knew how to locate it. When the hatch blew and failsafe activated, this Island/doorway appeared again which is why the parachutist came; but little did she know she was making a one way trip. Trying not to take this off on another tangent, but I'm liking your guys' (and gals) thoughts and I'm happy to see that I'm not totally off my rocker...LOL
100%
and I'm happy to see that I'm not totally off my rocker...LOL


Well...I may be, but we'll save that for debate once we know how the show ends... LOL

But Richard Alpert has come and gone off the island that we know of.....

But Richard Alpert has come and gone off the island that we know of.....

We've never seen him go off the island, remember that we see him off the island in Juliette flashbacks, and only once on the island in Ben's room after Juliette has been there 3 years. We haven't seen him on the island in those 3 years.

Well, technically we don't know that for sure...and this brings up PurpleSky's mirror/reflection comment. On one side of the reflection, the 815'ers are all dead because they crashed somewhere else besides the Island that WE know. However on the flip side they are alive and well on the Island. Could it be possible that "bad twin" is a reference to the fact that all of the people who have stepped into the alternate timeline willingly (Ethan, Dr. Alpert, Juliet (though she was deceived, and maybe the other 2 as well?)) are a distorted "reflection" of their original self that still exists on the "real" side of the mirror?
100%
Something else that might be worth pointing out...someone in an earlier post mentioned the significance of the storms when the parachutist and Desmond arrived on the Island.. I'm not sure the storms have anything to do with it, but remember that when Kelvin found Desmond, Des's vision was all distorted and it looked as if there were 3 Kelvin's pulling him up on the beach. We were made to think that this was because of Desmond's exhaustion at being tossed around at sea for so long, but maybe it was a clue that he was transitioning through this "doorway" into the alternate timeline we have on the Island? This could explain why Alpert and Ethan told Juliet that the end of the trip was "pretty rough"... whenever you transition through, it probably takes quite a toll on a person like it did with Desmond...

Excellent work here. Any thoughts on Michael and walt then?

Perhaps the original intent of the Swan/Button was to prevent people from accidentally stumbling through the "doorway" so to speak. As long as the button was pushed, the Island/doorway was hidden from outside eyes and only the DI/Others knew how to locate it. When the hatch blew and failsafe activated, this Island/doorway appeared again which is why the parachutist cameWow, that fits nicely into the earlier conjecture. Every 108 minutes the door is opened, or maybe it is closed. Whichever....the point being that pushing that button had some kind of effect on the possibility of passing through the island's portal.

I really like the sound of that.
100%
Any thoughts on Michael and walt then?Well, that is an interesting situation. Based on absolutely nothing whatsoever, I'd say that the sub positioned itself at a bearing of 325 degrees from the Pala Ferry, picked up our Losties, gave them the Dharma KoolAid, and traversed the portal for the remainder of the journey. Ben, after all, is fanatic about keeping his word.

Now, the problem begins. They are now "home". That is to say, the reality where 815 went down with no survivors. The are alive and dead in the same reality. Well, maybe that's not a problem at all; unlike being alive and being alive in the same reality.

Of course, this now begs the question: is there another Ben in this reality? Another Juliet? Another Rousseau?

Now, a freakier thought: if we continue with this logic, there IS another Desmond, right?

Still, I can't help but think that two people will play major roles as this story unfolds: Aaron and Walt. I can't imagine that the warnings concerning Aaron (from the psychic) and the strange abilities of Walt are mere window dressing. Yet, how???

Sorry for the tangent. That has been bugging me for quite awhile.
100%
Des's vision was all distorted and it looked as if there were 3 Kelvin's pulling him up on the beach. We were made to think that this was because of Desmond's exhaustion at being tossed around at sea for so long, but maybe it was a clue that he was transitioning through this "doorway" into the alternate timeline we have on the Island?

THANK YOU!!!!

I've been beating that drum for quite some time. Admittedly, I don't know the reason we were shown that but I truly feel it was significant clue.

As I said earlier, I love this theory and I'm hanging onto it - it is so plausible. After reading all the posts, I also recall the episode of Jack meeting Desmond in the stadium (as they were running the steps). Desmond basically told Jack he could save Sarah's life. Did Desmond have a vision of this? And of course Desmond's famous line to Jack, "See ya in another life brother". Hmmmmm!

This has been the best post. I can't wait to read what everyone thinks as we go along.

Good theory, I just can't help thinking about how in the world the producers are gonna be able to explain this in the show lol.

However, I do think you have it backwards. The Losties are supposed to be alive. The original timeline (with Desmond not getting the bat in the face, going to the island, following Kelvin, getting late to the button, Flight 815 crashing, and all the Losties surviving) is the "correct" one, because no one had interfered with the past at that point. When Desmond turned the key and went back in time and got the bat to the face, he changed the past and didn't make it to the island in time. Flight 815 flew over the island and crashed somewhere else, and all the Losties died. This is the time line that is "incorrect" because Desmond messed with the past and created a new future, one where he didn't cause Flight 815 to crash.

I like the thought that this change in the past removed the island from reality and they have to let the universe "course correct" to get back in.

And this means the parachutist arrived on the island from a "reality" in which 815 crashed elsewhere. She told the truth, as it is where/when she came from, when she said the plane had crashed "and 'you' are dead".

Now... who is 'you', exactly? She may have meant only that wreckage and bodies from 815 were found, and the remainder of the plane and passengers were PRESUMED dead (i.e. 'you' in a general, and plural, sense). She may, however, have specifically remembered that one of the bodies found was that of "Hugo Reyes" and was specifically talking to Hurley as 'you.' A big jackpot lottery winner, who was featured on international news when he won the lottery would certainly be mentioned in the news of the crash, either because it was "ironic" or as somehow related to his belief he was jinxed (which he told a lot of people).

I got halfway through and then just came to the conclusion there is an easier, less complicated reason. Someone wanted them on the island, wanted them to stay on the island after the crash, and for that to happen, they had to make sure no rescue attempt or massive search would be conducted. So, there is wreckage that is found, no survivors found (which is not the same thing as finding dead bodies, btw) and the case is closed.


And did TPTB say the events on the island would impact things off the island, or that things off island would impact the island, or both? After all, the failsafe key being turned and the purple sky event did register on the radar station in the snowy place, so that was off island. And I believe the Lostaways are going to be celebrating Christmas soon, by my count tonight was Dec. 20, 2004 on the island.

Makes sense man!!!

May 2nd's supposed to be the OMG moment we have been waiting for. Think of all the biblical references no the show...We are supposed to meet [spoiler]Jacob[spoiler] So instead of christ being born or introduced to the Lostess this X-mas, it will be...;)

I think that the Island is supposed to be hidden, and that the purple sky event obviously made the Island "appear" to the outside world. Everyone else on that dock seemed to freak out about it, and Ben was the only one who kept calm and collected. What I'm thinking is that Ben has been through this all before....probably when he was younger, and that he knew that that meant that outsiders (or possible "hostiles"?) would soon be coming to the Island now that they could see it. The only way to survive that would be to keep his wits about him and develop a plan....and surely from what we've seen Ben *surely* has a plan...or at least I hope so...LOL He's going to start recruiting Locke hardcore, because he's going to need a solid foundation of people at his side when the "hostiles" or "outsiders" arrive at the Island in order to continue protecting it...

It could also be that the "incident" we have seen referred to was actually a previous purple sky event (at which time Ben would have been a little boy or possibly a teenager) and it resulted in the Island "appearing", and a group of people (possibly the "hostiles") came to the Island now that they could see it, and their little incursion was quashed by the remainder of the DI still residing on the Island.
100%
I wanted to post another message here and let everyone that has contributed to this thread so far know that I decided to email Doc Jensen at Entertainment Weekly with what we have put together so far. He writes a great column every Wednesday and Friday on EW.com regarding 'Lost' and is always asking for people to submit their theories and he often posts the "latest and greatest" within the article. I think what we have going here so far is awesome, and I hope we can keep the ball rolling; because we may be onto something here. Below I've posted the e-mail I sent to him asking him to check out the thread and hopefully he may mention it this coming Wednesday in his article. Thanks to all, because you're helping me convince myself I'm not going insane! LOL :biggrin:

Mr. Jensen,

First let me say that I absolutely love reading your column week after week on EW.com, and I sincerely hope you will continue writing it for the duration of the show. With that said, I’d like to introduce you to a theory that I started after the airing of D.O.C this past week. I would like to post it all here in this e-mail to you, but I think you would get a better sense of what we (and I say we, because the awesome community on The Fuselage has contributed greatly to my initial thoughts, and have been throwing their support my way for the past week now) have put together by browsing through the thread I have created on The Fuselage website (www.thefuselage.com (http://www.thefuselage.com/)) I will post a direct link here for you, but if for some reason you cannot view it please let me know and I would be glad to summarize everything into an email for you. Given the strong support I’ve had for this theory so far, it would be an absolute honor to have it mentioned in your column next week if you have the time to do so. I look forward to hearing your thoughts and response on this, and please keep up the amazing work!

Sincerely,

David (aka Halcyon on The Fuselage)

Here is a direct link to the thread I created titled ‘Events On The Island Are Impacting Events Off The Island’ (http://thefuselage.com/Threaded/showthread.php?t=77437 (http://thefuselage.com/Threaded/showthread.php?t=77437)) I hope you have the time to read and enjoy!

I made it to the part about the bad twins...but then my brain began to bleed... (<>..<>)
100%
n noww mye tiping get kindo phunnhy...meam hed hert badd...look...therres granpa wid jesus...mee caul 1-1-9 noww... (--..--)

I think someone else mentioned this: The fact Locke causes the need to turn the failsafe key seems to be the big flaw right now. How does Locke get there if the only reason he gets there is because the key was turned in the first place????

THIS reminds me of The Terminator. It always bends my mind to think that the guy who comes from the future to help her kill the T turns out to be the daddy of the baby that the T came to prevent from being born-- but he's also the baby's best friend in the future.
:confused:

I am now wondering if Aaron is Jacob! :eek2:

also-- what about "adam and eve" in the caves? who are they, and what time are they from?

anyway-- I love this theory.

Good theory, I just can't help thinking about how in the world the producers are gonna be able to explain this in the show lol.

However, I do think you have it backwards. The Losties are supposed to be alive. The original timeline (with Desmond not getting the bat in the face, going to the island, following Kelvin, getting late to the button, Flight 815 crashing, and all the Losties surviving) is the "correct" one, because no one had interfered with the past at that point. When Desmond turned the key and went back in time and got the bat to the face, he changed the past and didn't make it to the island in time. Flight 815 flew over the island and crashed somewhere else, and all the Losties died. This is the time line that is "incorrect" because Desmond messed with the past and created a new future, one where he didn't cause Flight 815 to crash.

I like the thought that this change in the past removed the island from reality and they have to let the universe "course correct" to get back in.

This makes more sense since it explains Locke's role, but I did enjoy the OP's post and found it very well written.

Thanks for taking the time to write it, OP, and I hope you're feeling better.

That I am, and I appreciate all of the feedback! Also - I do think that TheArtistFormerlyKnownAsHenry has corrected me. After I thought about it for a bit I realized that Desmond's being late to push the button (which caused 815 to crash on the Island) was probably *intended* and not a modification from intended events, and I will certainly give him/her props on correcting me :) I'll take the credit for getting the theory going and all, but it wouldn't be as far as it is now without everyone else's support and input... now if I could only get PenYours and the Whispers Crew (a new band perhaps? LOL) to give some input on my Whispers theory we might well be on a roll here... :biggrin: ;)

Great theory Halcyon! My mind has been reeling with this idea all week. Thanks for editing in some paragraph breaks, that really helped make it readable. You really set the stage for a theory that fits well with all the time clues we have been given. A little tweaking and some additions have made for an amazing thread!

Like TheArtist, I am leaning towards the idea that the timeline we have been watching is the original and fated timeline, and that the Losties were somehow destined to be here. Ms Hawking made it clear that Desmond had to go to this island, push the buttons for three years, and turn that key. The key would not have needed to be turned if Locke had not been there. And as we learned in season 1, something or someone guided these people to be on flight 815.

It would be interesting if in one of Desmonds flashbacks, we see what happened after Desmond took the bat to the head. I would like to see the snowball effect in action. How many other things were changed as a result of Desmond getting hit instead of the bartender?

Here's where I branch off onto a new tangent:

What if one of those things, through maybe 108,000 degrees of separation, was flight 815? Maybe somehow, in this fractured timeline, a different set of people were on board that flight. Our Losties went on with life and never got on board the doomed flight. Flight 815 crashed and there were no survivors, but these people were not the ones on board. So now we have two sets of Losties in the universe. That would call for some course correction, huh?

That might explain why these people are being judged by Smokey, and people are being killed off one by one. Someone, lets say the universe, is looking at each of these people and their counterpart in the other timeline. One of each person has to go, depending on which one plays a bigger part in destiny in their respective timeline.

For example, IslandEko's life didnt amount to much on the island, but alternaEko is destined to have some greater purpose in life. So IslandEko has to go. Crippled Box Company Locke, did little more than fantasize about what his life could have been, while IslandLocke is destined to do something great. So BoxCoLocke skids on a banana peel and rolls down a flight of stairs and dies.

I like TK 421's idea of Desmond dying in the altered timeline. That may be why he was thrust back into his predestined future at the time of death. AlternaDesmond ceased to exist at that point, and was forced back.

AlternaCharlie must have some important role to play, since Island Charlie is fated to die. But despite all of Ms. Hawkings warnings, Desmond keeps getting in the way of fate. Maybe the parachutist is connected with Ms. Hawking and Brother Campbell…a member of the Protectors of Destiny Squad, and has come to the island to prevent Desmond's interference.

It seems like in the end, these two timelines should be made to reconnect into one -the BIG course correction. But that cannot happen till the duplicates problem is fixed.

Like TheArtist, I am leaning towards the idea that the timeline we have been watching is the original and fated timeline, and that the Losties were somehow destined to be here. Ms Hawking made it clear that Desmond had to go to this island, push the buttons for three years, and turn that key. The key would not have needed to be turned if Locke had not been there. And as we learned in season 1, something or someone guided these people to be on flight 815.


Or maybe the timeline we're watching is the universe is giving our 815ers their last chance get back on their original, fated path. Let's face it, most of their lives are quite messy. This is now their last chance to "course correct".
100%
Nice job Halycon and everyone. This is a great thread!

Oh I still love this theory and thread!!
Great points being added.
Would it make sense that the course-correction to merge the timelines will require everyone to die? Or is there a way to course correct and merge without killing the entire group?

I also like the Aaron = Jacob theory as it fits with the T2 time travel reference discussed above. However, I thought I read that:


TPTB stated Jacob is not someone we have seen before.



ETA: I forgot about Des's signature line to Jack: See ya in Another Life.... That line could either be a hint or a sign Desmond was 'aware' of the parallel timelines. If anyone is to become aware out of the non-Others, I would bet on Desmond.

Would the split theory explain the inability to have children?
If your alternate time line life is over, it would prevent you from creating life???

This would seem to lend to the fact that the Losties we see now are in the altered version of time....???

Great theory, by the way, and great feedback from everybody.

I think it was during the 'Expose' podcast that a question was asked re: timelines because the paper that Paolo was reading had a future date on it..two days after the original Flight 815 was to have left Sydney. In the podcast, Carlton simply said (and I'm paraphrasing) 'Ah yes, that darn International Dateline', which can lead one to believe that there is some validity to two different timelines and it definitely sounded as though the Dateline has something to do with it. They can be so cryptic at times!

What if they never actually crossed the International Dateline and instead are stuck in the Dateline itself? I don't know. I'm just talking out the side of my mouth here, so shoot me now!:ohwell:

I guess we'll just have to wait and see.