I haven't ever been this mad with a Lost character since AL. I've been upset with some on and off but after The Brig and Kate spilling the beans on a possible rescue to Jack so that he'd know that his friends didn't trust him was too much. I seriously hope she is one of the 5 that gets killed off this season. That was the dumbest thing she's done and totally selfish. Trying to boost up Jack so that she can look good and risking their rescue was the last straw! She has shown that she doesn't care about anyone else. She needs to go ... and take Jack with her! :mad:

Kate is ***MOD EDITED***

I agree with jbdean

Please don't post about how you like the character in this section. Thank you.

I agree with jbdean
Thanks, Perdida. I mean I never wanted to feel this way about her but OMG ... what was she thinking??? Is her relationship with Jack really more important than the rescue of everyone from the plane? I know she may not want to be rescued herself, and Locke kind of did the same thing when he blew up the sub, but we know Sayid wouldn't have told her if she hadn't promised to keep it to her self and then she runs off to Jack like she's his carrier pigeon. I just wanted to smack her in the back of the head and say, "Hey! You promised!" Grrrrr! :mad:

I find myself "just not into Kate" anymore and I am getting more and more frustrated by her actions.

I find myself "just not into Kate" anymore and I am getting more and more frustrated by her actions.Same here. I love the actress, think she's great, but Kate is just getting too much for me. She needs a good shaking! Her hormones are all over the place and really messing with her judgment. I'm still steamed that they had her tell Jack about Naomi. :mad:

She needs a good shaking!


She needs more than that. :chair:

She needs more than that. :chair:LOL Well I was trying to be polite. I know from the old AL Hate thread that we got into mucho trouble for coming up with vivid things we'd like to see happen to AL. So ... I thought shaking was tame yet gets my message across. (But when you're done with that chair ... may I borrow it? ;))

What I'd love to see is Sawyer putting her in her place with "You messed up our chance for rescue just so you could tell the Doc that his 'friends' don't trust him? I think those freckles have gone to your brain!" LOL

I think I will eventually hate Kate as much as Ana. :)

I think I will eventually hate Kate as much as Ana. :)Were you reading my mind? LOL If her little "tip off" to Jack-O messes up a rescue, you'll have to race me to post The Kate Hate Club thread. :biggrin:

I hope (if she doesn't die) that Sawyer gets tired of her "using him" and she has to stay alone.

Were you reading my mind? LOL If her little "tip off" to Jack-O messes up a rescue, you'll have to race me to post The Kate Hate Club thread. :biggrin:

Kate doesn't want your full wrath. Look at what you did to Ana. :)

I hope (if she doesn't die) that Sawyer gets tired of her "using him" and she has to stay alone.

Kate alone sounds good. She could live at one of the abandoned hatches.

I hope (if she doesn't die) that Sawyer gets tired of her "using him" and she has to stay alone.She can take Danielle's place and Danielle can come live among the Losties because they're going to have Alex with them soon ... I just know it!

Kate doesn't want your full wrath. Look at what you did to Ana. :)

Kate alone sounds good. She could live at one of the abandoned hatches.No. She has to live in the Swan ... or Flame stations, or what's left of them. :biglaugh:

No. She has to live in the Swan ... or Flame stations, or what's left of them. :biglaugh:
If she's alone she wouldn't have to run or she could run back and forth from the Swan to the Flame. She will definitely jump on any Others that happen by and slip away as soon as she gets sex.

Kate has always rubbed me the wrong way. I have never understood how she can be a murderer, bank robber, & whatever else and everyone seemed to judge other people way worse than her.She is the type of woman that gets men killed because she wants her cake and eat it too. My worst nightmare is season 4 will be the Jack & Kate show. I want to see the other ladies on the island and no more of the crap love triangle.

ETA...and I forgot about the time she tried to poison Jin.

Kate has always rubbed me the wrong way. I have never understood how she can be a murderer, bank robber, & whatever else and everyone seemed to judge other people way worse than her.She is the type of woman that gets men killed because she wants her cake and eat it too. My worst nightmare is season 4 will be the Jack & Kate show. I want to see the other ladies on the island and no more of the crap love triangle.
You are so right! She's done some really bad things and yet her fans love her but take pot shots at others on the island because of the horrible things they've done ... ignoring what Kate has done. My biggest gripe with the character is that she's nosy and can't keep a secret. She has to be in on everything that goes on, even when she's told no and told no by the person that's in charge. I think Jack said it best when they were taking the dynamite back from the Black Rock. He said, "everyone wants me to be leader until I tell them what to do." She's just like those he speaks of. But the irony of it is that even he doesn't notice that trait in her and later asks her to watch his back (when Locke is blowing up the hatch and he tells Kate that 'if we survive this, we're going to have a Locke problem.' She doesn't follow his directions or doesn't follow them willingly and yet he still wants her on his side. Someone like that, IMO, is a poor choice for leader. Right now I don't care for Kate or Jack. I think they've been over used and I'm bored with them. Like you said, there are other ladies on the island (and guys, too) and it's time we start seeing more of them and less of the triangle.

I think on my list of hated folks, "two face kate" is second only to AL. Im tired of someone telling her something and she turns right around and blabs it to someone else. Not to mention after watching S1 again, she cant keep her nose out of anyones business.

I think on my list of hated folks, "two face kate" is second only to AL. Im tired of someone telling her something and she turns right around and blabs it to someone else. Not to mention after watching S1 again, she cant keep her nose out of anyones business.So true! I really don't know what Sawyer or Jack are supposed to be attracted to other than her looks. I do think she is very pretty but the Kate I thought I liked from S01 has worn me raw by the end of S03. I hope now that we know that she got off the island that she wises up and gets more grounded.

. Your right, she is easy on the eyes. But lets not forget she is an "ice cold killa", proven when she blew up daddy in cold blood. At least she could have confronted him then shot him or something. As for Jack....well, the more he hangs around Kate the less I like him. Juliet needs to get Kate out of the picture.
Although, I think Kate as a replacement for Danielle would be great. Hard for an attention hungry person to live as a hermitette on an island..........
100%
Gotta rant a few, I didnt want to do it in "The Long Con" cause it doesnt belong there. BUT, after having someone argue the fact that Kate abandoning her task helping Sayid with the radio triangulation was not that big of a deal and that she was going to help Jack makes me wonder.......Is it OK in todays society to completely abandon a semi important task over a childish whim? YES, Sawyer was a jerk. Yes, Sawyer did light the flare and do what needed to be done. But "what if" Sawyer decided he didnt want to stick around and do it? Then it would fall back on Kate who had "run away" again and would let down two others (Even Shannon!) who had done what they were supposed to. Not to mention, I really dont see (reality check here) how much use a woman of Kates stature would have been in moving large rocks out of the cave in area. Funny how she weasled her way to the front of the excavation line though. I guess everyone else was just lazy. Alright Ill shut up, Im being petty. I really do hope Kates can grow up a little bit this upcoming season and kill someone that needs to be killed for a change.............

Gotta rant a few, I didnt want to do it in "The Long Con" cause it doesnt belong there. BUT, after having someone argue the fact that Kate abandoning her task helping Sayid with the radio triangulation was not that big of a deal and that she was going to help Jack makes me wonder.......Is it OK in todays society to completely abandon a semi important task over a childish whim? YES, Sawyer was a jerk. Yes, Sawyer did light the flare and do what needed to be done. But "what if" Sawyer decided he didnt want to stick around and do it? Then it would fall back on Kate who had "run away" again and would let down two others (Even Shannon!) who had done what they were supposed to. Not to mention, I really dont see (reality check here) how much use a woman of Kates stature would have been in moving large rocks out of the cave in area. Funny how she weasled her way to the front of the excavation line though. I guess everyone else was just lazy. Alright Ill shut up, Im being petty. I really do hope Kates can grow up a little bit this upcoming season and kill someone that needs to be killed for a change.............

As much as I think she's a trailertrash psycho who needs to be locked away with no key in sight and as much as I dislike the way they write her (Mary Sue her would be the correct term) as one of the worst female characters on TV, I don't think it's Kate's business to wonder if Sawyer would have stayed or not. I didn't really have a problem with that.

Now keep in mind that she kept mum about a very important piece of information about the enemy who kidnapped, tortured and killed their people (the fake costumes she found in the medihatch) because she was whining like a petulant little girl about not being in the club anymore. Compare that to leaving Sawyer alone with the flare. It's nowhere near in the same league. To her credit, she never once tried to stop the rescue effort even though it meant hard (and well-deserved) prison time for her so the flare incident just seems minimal to me because Sawyer staying or leaving is not her responsibility. And he stayed.

I don't normally post in these threads because rage against fictional characters is not my thing and this is not the place to debate, I just wanted to point out the bigger picture.

Bigger picture, I agree with ya Claudia. And yes the "flare incident" is miniscule compared to the example you gave. I was simply using the "what if" as an "alternate scenario" example considering alternate times, events, and (I think this is the right term) quantum theory are used to explain happenings on the island. Trailertrash psycho.....thats a new way to look at the character!

Bigger picture, I agree with ya Claudia. And yes the "flare incident" is miniscule compared to the example you gave. I was simply using the "what if" as an "alternate scenario" example considering alternate times, events, and (I think this is the right term) quantum theory are used to explain happenings on the island. Trailertrash psycho.....thats a new way to look at the character!You know, whether it's a small incident or a bigger one ... it still boils down to the same thing. The girl is driven by her hormones.

tru jb, tru. She needs some help.....

tru jb, tru. She needs some help.....I'm really kind of anxious to see if her getting off the island did do her any good. She seemed rather cool towards Jack when they met, even if she did cry. Wonder if the "he" she mentioned was Sawyer and that helped her get over Jack or if she just "grew up" when she had more guys to pick from. LOL

I want to see what happen to her too. I don't hate Kate, but I don't really like her either :p. She always dissapoints me, she's so impulsive and she has ruins people's life because of that :( I don't thinks she's good at all, but again none of the Losties are. She never thinks before she acts, and she hurts her friends in the process, her character supposedly loves both Jack and Sawyer, but I don't see any of these men happy because of her, I see exactly the opposite. She killed her father to help her mother, who didn't really appreciate what she did, if fact she asked never to talk to her again, and again she didn't listen and went looking for her which only caused her mother more pain. Then, there's Tom, he asked her to turn hersefl in and all she did was to get him killed. Not to mention the bank robbery to get just a freakin' toy plane, c'mon! I don't know if she's just impusive or plain stupid.

I want to see what happen to her too. I don't hate Kate, but I don't really like her either :p. She always dissapoints me, she's so impulsive and she has ruins people's life because of that :( I don't thinks she's good at all, but again none of the Losties are. She never thinks before she acts, and she hurts her friends in the process, her character supposedly loves both Jack and Sawyer, but I don't see any of these men happy because of her, I see exactly the opposite. She killed her father to help her mother, who didn't really appreciate what she did, if fact she asked never to talk to her again, and again she didn't listen and went looking for her which only caused her mother more pain. Then, there's Tom, he asked her to turn hersefl in and all she did was to get him killed. Not to mention the bank robbery to get just a freakin' toy plane, c'mon! I don't know if she's just impusive or plain stupid.
I think there's a good heart in her ... deep in her ... but I think she is the way she is, like you gave examples of, because she's selfish. I hope S04 will shed more light on why she's so bull-headed.

i just rewatched the episode of Kates "bank robbery"....Shooting several people in order get a toy plane?!? I dont know if there is any good in her, and if she does anything good its for personal gain down the road. As much as I have begun to rant about her, I like the how the character falls into the overall scheme of things......

i just rewatched the episode of Kates "bank robbery"....Shooting several people in order get a toy plane?!? I dont know if there is any good in her, and if she does anything good its for personal gain down the road. As much as I have begun to rant about her, I like the how the character falls into the overall scheme of things......I think what I meant by her having a good heart deep inside of her is that she cares ... often too much and for the wrong people, but she cares none-the-less. But I always thought that the whole bank robbery for a toy plane was way over the top. But I think it's a perfect example of her obsessiveness. She was willing to walk through fire (and take everyone with her if they tried to stop her) to get what she felt she HAD to have. I do think she is obsessive/compulsive. Not the kind that has to wash their hands over and over or has to count dots they see or can only buy/own things in even amounts ... but the kind that gets a hold of an idea, feeling, thought, person and cannot let it go until her O/C lets it go. And I do also like how she's written into the storyline. I just don't know what, other than great looks, the guys see in her. After awhile I'd be like, "Gee, Freckles/Kate ... you're beginning to really bug me!" LOL

OCD is certainly an issue for her. I think you hit the nail on the head JB. Were I on the island with her, I would have probably let her have it by now.......

I don't know about OCD, but she defenitely has problems. I don't think she will ever be able to settle down and not make impulsive decisions. I used to think that the island was going to change her, but no, she is one of the few characters that have not changed at all since being on the island. Sawyer has shown his soft side, Locke stopped being a pushover, Jin got cool and started speaking English while treating his wife with respect etc, but Kate is still the same impulsive dumb girl she was off island. And what bothers me the most is that she gets away with it, like on the FF Jack is all messed up and she's all pretty and happy with her nice car and make-up, that is not fair because she does not deserve it she should be in jail.

Youve brought up a good point Bunny. Why is Kate the only one who seems to have to changed? And why DOES she continue to get away with her actions. She is such an intrinsic character on the island yet she has made no progress with any (ok, Im sure some progress has been made somewhere in her life) of her issues. It seems (at least in my eyes) when someone on the island comes to grips with something or lets something go they tend to die off. At this rate, Kate may be the last Lostie to leave the island.
100%
Why is kate the only one who seems to have to changed= Why is Kate th only one who seems to have not changed.....Sorry

I got what you meant okie, I think Kate gets away with a lot just because she was the center of the triangle and because Evie is such a beautiful actress. Personally, I want to see karma strike back and I want to see her in jail! Of all the sci-fi things and unreal things on Lost, Kate not going to jail will be the biggest one. ...

Bunny, see my post on the "She is innocent" thread (since Im a little bit of a computer moron I dont know how or should I say dont want to learn how to attach a link to this text!. :biggrin: ) Im afraid I may have posted the wrong info on this thread, but I basically lined out how much time Kate could do for her crimes. Lets just say she will not be getting out anytime soon if she is sent away.........

I don't know about OCD, but she defenitely has problems. I don't think she will ever be able to settle down and not make impulsive decisions. I used to think that the island was going to change her, but no, she is one of the few characters that have not changed at all since being on the island. Sawyer has shown his soft side, Locke stopped being a pushover, Jin got cool and started speaking English while treating his wife with respect etc, but Kate is still the same impulsive dumb girl she was off island. And what bothers me the most is that she gets away with it, like on the FF Jack is all messed up and she's all pretty and happy with her nice car and make-up, that is not fair because she does not deserve it she should be in jail.There are all kinds of OC actions. Not all relate to what is commonly shown or talked about. Now I doubt OC will ever be used to describe her on the show but I think, if she were a real person, that she has it to some degree.

But you're right about her not changing while all the others have. But, to me, I don't see any change in Jack either. He's still stubborn, biased and vain. Actually I think he's gotten worse since he got on the island. But that's for another thread. ;)

Youve brought up a good point Bunny. Why is Kate the only one who seems to have to changed? And why DOES she continue to get away with her actions. She is such an intrinsic character on the island yet she has made no progress with any (ok, Im sure some progress has been made somewhere in her life) of her issues. It seems (at least in my eyes) when someone on the island comes to grips with something or lets something go they tend to die off. At this rate, Kate may be the last Lostie to leave the island.
100%
Why is kate the only one who seems to have to changed= Why is Kate th only one who seems to have not changed.....SorryI think that was a theory that has been disproved by so many that still are alive that have changed. Locke, Jin, James, Sun. They've all made huge strides and are still alive. I think those that died and had reached some kind of atonement just happened to be that way when they were killed off. Perhaps the writers set it up so that they could have shown something for their lives and their mistakes before killing them off but I don't think it's a requirement that once you atone or show growth that you have to be killed off.

I think that was a theory that has been disproved by so many that still are alive that have changed. Locke, Jin, James, Sun. They've all made huge strides and are still alive. I think those that died and had reached some kind of atonement just happened to be that way when they were killed off. Perhaps the writers set it up so that they could have shown something for their lives and their mistakes before killing them off but I don't think it's a requirement that once you atone or show growth that you have to be killed off.

You are probably right. This whole subject of dying after atonement reminds me of a book called "Defense of Hill 781" which I was required to read as a young military officer. I know we have thrown the "purgatory theory" out the window, thats why perhaps this book is irrelavant to Lost. The book is basically about an Army officer caught between heaven and hell where he had to atone for his misgivings and arrogant infantry attitude towards others. Once he did that, he got in the Humvee and drove thru the pearly gates so to speak. :angel:
While this post really doesnt belong here, Im going to continue for a few more lines cause I feel its relevant to our discussion.
I am caught between two feelings on Lost right now
1. I want to find deeper meaning in everything and have a detailed explaination of it.
2. I feel like I may be trying to "over explain" events and people on the island.

This keeps coming to mind:
Occam's razor: laymens terms (Im afraid to try to explain fully for fear of looking like a moron) if all things are equal, then the simplest solution should be the best solution.

But GEEZ, I cant even figure out the simplest solution right now! :confused:

You are probably right. This whole subject of dying after atonement reminds me of a book called "Defense of Hill 781" which I was required to read as a young military officer. I know we have thrown the "purgatory theory" out the window, thats why perhaps this book is irrelavant to Lost. The book is basically about an Army officer caught between heaven and hell where he had to atone for his misgivings and arrogant infantry attitude towards others. Once he did that, he got in the Humvee and drove thru the pearly gates so to speak. :angel:
While this post really doesnt belong here, Im going to continue for a few more lines cause I feel its relevant to our discussion.
I am caught between two feelings on Lost right now
1. I want to find deeper meaning in everything and have a detailed explaination of it.
2. I feel like I may be trying to "over explain" events and people on the island.

This keeps coming to mind:
Occam's razor: laymens terms (Im afraid to try to explain fully for fear of looking like a moron) if all things are equal, then the simplest solution should be the best solution.

But GEEZ, I cant even figure out the simplest solution right now! :confused:As for those two choices you're battling with ... I say just go with the flow. That's what I do. Sometimes I'll dissect the smallest thing and other times I'll just enjoy the story. LOL

But back on topic ;) ... I wonder when (if) we will see any change in Kate. I mean all that time on the island and no change apparent (as of season 3) and then she gets to get off the island? It seems really unfair to me and I do hope that when all is said and done we don't find that the writers held her and Jack as special so that they didn't have to go through what many of our other faves (speaking for fans in general) have had to go through. I think of Charlie, who never killed anyone before the island and cleaned up his act 110% and yet he dies.

I just want her to get some kind of punishment before the series ends because I really think she deserves something. She's messed up too many people with her headstrong ways.

I think that going back to the "real world" is going to be the punishment for her. But Im like you JB, some sort of punishment would be nice.

I think that going back to the "real world" is going to be the punishment for her. But Im like you JB, some sort of punishment would be nice.I don't know. She seems pretty comfy back in the real world. Nice car, all pretty and stuff. There are still 3 more seasons ... I'm hoping that she will be given some kind of punishment for what she's done.

Comfy on the outside, hopefully a completely psychotic nutcase on the inside. I keep hoping she might pull one of her stunts with ol Des or Ben and they reach back and knock her into next week...Des wouldnt I dont think, but I can see Ben being a woman beater. Ah, one can always dream.

DISCLAIMER: I do NOT believe in violence towards women (unless in self-defense)

Comfy on the outside, hopefully a completely psychotic nutcase on the inside. I keep hoping she might pull one of her stunts with ol Des or Ben and they reach back and knock her into next week...Des wouldnt I dont think, but I can see Ben being a woman beater. Ah, one can always dream.

DISCLAIMER: I do NOT believe in violence towards women (unless in self-defense)Do you really see Ben as a woman beater? I don't. But I could see James getting fed up eventually and socking her one. But I don't even know if that's what I want for her. I think I just want her to have to own up to what she's done ... like Charlie, Shannon and Boone. Jack knows about the being wanted by the police for the bank robbery ... but no one yet knows that she killed her father. I wonder how ol' Jack-o will feel when he learns that? I just want reality to hit her ... reality that jolts her off her feet. Maybe something darker than being captive by the Others. I think she had it pretty good there. No one beat on her like they did James. I don't know. LOL I just am fed up with her antics.

The only reason I see Ben capable of that is the fact he has committed "mass murder". I think the best punishment for Kate would be for her to be the ONLY person on the island. Nothing to manipulate except Smokey (yea right!) and the Hurley Bird!

The only reason I see Ben capable of that is the fact he has committed "mass murder". I think the best punishment for Kate would be for her to be the ONLY person on the island. Nothing to manipulate except Smokey (yea right!) and the Hurley Bird!Funny, that's one reason I think he's not. He's not so much for one-on-one. Even when he beat up on James he was either caged (with Ben's goons near by) or strapped down on a gurney. But if he got ticked off enough, I guess, I could see him giving a woman a backhand. (Now watch, we'll see him do this in S04! LOL)

Wow, Kate alone on the island with just Smokie and the Hurley bird ... you must really hate Smokie and that Hurley bird! :biglaugh:

I just figured the bird and Smokey would be the only ones that could put up with it for years, they can dissapear and hide if they wish! I just rewatched the epie where Kate and Sun poisoned Michael. My disdain for her grows with each episode I watch. I loved how she got Tom killed too.......

Comfy on the outside, hopefully a completely psychotic nutcase on the inside.
That's exactly who Kate is, sadly one can only take so much of her crazyness before it becomes annoying

My Kate Craziness Meter has hit maximum level. Im just wondering how many people she is going to kill in cold blood and/or manipulate in S4. I seem to rant a lot about Kate, but DUDES, she is the only one I cannot stand on the whole stinkin island!

I just figured the bird and Smokey would be the only ones that could put up with it for years, they can dissapear and hide if they wish! I just rewatched the epie where Kate and Sun poisoned Michael. My disdain for her grows with each episode I watch. I loved how she got Tom killed too.......LOL Well they'd either do that or Smokie would take things into it's own "hands" like it did Mr. Eko. :biggrin:

That's exactly who Kate is, sadly one can only take so much of her crazyness before it becomes annoyingI'd like to like her and I kind of did in S01 but after she insisted on tagging along on EVERYTHING ... I just got fed up with her. I know it's how the writers want her to be but I just wish they'd make her a bit more human and have her change a bit ... ease off, not be so intense about things. And please ... oh pleases ... make up your mind already on which man you want.

My Kate Craziness Meter has hit maximum level. Im just wondering how many people she is going to kill in cold blood and/or manipulate in S4. I seem to rant a lot about Kate, but DUDES, she is the only one I cannot stand on the whole stinkin island!For me the only one that I truly hated (that's ... Hated, with a capitol H) was AL but Kate really has taxed my last nerve. She just isn't a team player ... except for those that she considers on her team and that excludes most of the Losties. She would sell them all down the river if it meant saving her dear Jack or precious Sawyer.

UUGGGGG. JB, you had to remind me of AL.. Since getting whacked by Michael I had almost forgotten about her.
I sometimes wonder if she is not "using" (ahem, in more ways than one) Sawyer as well for something already.

UUGGGGG. JB, you had to remind me of AL.. Since getting whacked by Michael I had almost forgotten about her.
I sometimes wonder if she is not "using" (ahem, in more ways than one) Sawyer as well for something already.Sorry for jogging that awful memory for you. AL does leave a bad taste in one's mouth, doesn't she? :puke:

You know, Kate I don't see as down right evil like I feel AL was but she still goes about like a blockhead doing what she thinks is for the "greater good" when it's really just for her favorite boys. I think that's what has gotten me totally over the character. She just doesn't seem to have her eyes open to anything yet. I ust can't see James or Jack, for that matter, recognizing this in her by S04 ... at least James. I know he seems to be the one with the most invested (having had sex several times) but sometimes that can also wear thin if the hazard is strong enough and I fear the hazard that is Kate is strong enough.

And then the way she treated James after they'd made love ... like she was some stud on a one-night-stand. See, if I were James and I'd recognized why she'd acted like that I'd have dropped her like a scalding hot potato. I like James much more than I even tolerate Jack so I'd like to see him cut her loose. I mean Jack has had lots of oppty to get the right lady and do right by her and he's flubbed it. James, on the other hand, hasn't spent time trying to get it right and if he sticks with Kate, I fear, he will continue to not get it right. Know what I mean?

I hear ya JB. I dread to think what will happen to the Sawyermiester if he keeps Kate in his life. Im really hoping he distances himself from her in S4.

I hear ya JB. I dread to think what will happen to the Sawyermiester if he keeps Kate in his life. Im really hoping he distances himself from her in S4.It's possible since she's with Jack and he's on the beach. Have you been to the B-Team group (http://www.thefuselage.com/Threaded/showthread.php?t=80520) thread? It's great and filled with the players we love. Stop on by ... Guaranteed.No.Kate. :biggrin:

I hear ya JB. I dread to think what will happen to the Sawyermiester if he keeps Kate in his life. Im really hoping he distances himself from her in S4.

The only reason I can stand Kate it's because like it or not she does make Sawyer somewhat happy :frown: I just hate the way she treats him like he's her toy, yeah maybe he'll get tired of her in S4 or maybe she will see the light and finally change her attitude

You know, Kate I don't see as down right evil like I feel AL



I miss AL. I wish that Kate had her spine.

I haven't ever been this mad with a Lost character since AL. I've been upset with some on and off but after The Brig and Kate spilling the beans on a possible rescue to Jack so that he'd know that his friends didn't trust him was too much. I seriously hope she is one of the 5 that gets killed off this season. That was the dumbest thing she's done and totally selfish. Trying to boost up Jack so that she can look good and risking their rescue was the last straw! She has shown that she doesn't care about anyone else. She needs to go ... and take Jack with her! :mad:

I feel like screaming right now. :rolleyes:

She just bugs me so much...Thank you for this thread, Jane.

I feel like screaming right now. :rolleyes:

She just bugs me so much...Thank you for this thread, Jane.You're welcome! I keep trying to like her but she just keeps ticking me off. Even in S04, when she steals the phone from Jack, she's just so smug and thinks she is the only one that can solve everything. I was glad she didn't go with Locke but now, Sawyer better watch his back, she is out for herself ... yet again.

Pffft. Dear God.

Don't get me started on Kate...

Lucky for you guys you've already pointed out all the reasons why I despise her so much, so you avoid reading a lecture lol...:biggrin:

Pffft. Dear God.

Don't get me started on Kate...

Lucky for you guys you've already pointed out all the reasons why I despise her so much, so you avoid reading a lecture lol...:biggrin:
Oh feel free to vent even if someone has already said it. I know it makes me feel better. ;) Another thing that is really bugging me with Kate is that shy little *thing* she does out from under her eyelashes with that kind of hurt smile. She is so playing herself as a victim and I am really tired of it. She used to be a strong character and now all she does is whimper and sulk. It's like high school watching those three.

Lol. Well...

I hate how she has to be involved in everything, and if not. She HAS to go along anyway. I hate the fact she is stupid reason for the Sawyer-Kate-Jack triangle and how she switches between them. I hate how Jack told her to leave him behind [because of his deal with Ben] during the operation, and straight after she got back, she went out again and back for him. Then when she arrived in his house, Jack said "I told you not to come back for me", and Kate was like "I didn't think you meant it". At that point, I acctually shouted "Why the hell would he say it then you stupid ***".

Wow. You're right. I do feel better :biggrin: Wheeeew.

Lol. Well...

I hate how she has to be involved in everything, and if not. She HAS to go along anyway. I hate the fact she is stupid reason for the Sawyer-Kate-Jack triangle and how she switches between them. I hate how Jack told her to leave him behind [because of his deal with Ben] during the operation, and straight after she got back, she went out again and back for him. Then when she arrived in his house, Jack said "I told you not to come back for me", and Kate was like "I didn't think you meant it". At that point, I acctually shouted "Why the hell would he say it then you stupid ***".

Wow. You're right. I do feel better :biggrin: Wheeeew.LOL Cleansing of the Soul. ;)

Kate only hears what she wants to hear, that's why she didn't think he meant it. Same with the time Jack told her not to come looking for Michael when they found Zeke (Tom) and she nearly got they all killed. Did she learn? Nope. Sorry. Nada.

Sad. :doh:

Lol. Well...

I hate how she has to be involved in everything, and if not. She HAS to go along anyway. I hate the fact she is stupid reason for the Sawyer-Kate-Jack triangle and how she switches between them. I hate how Jack told her to leave him behind [because of his deal with Ben] during the operation, and straight after she got back, she went out again and back for him. Then when she arrived in his house, Jack said "I told you not to come back for me", and Kate was like "I didn't think you meant it". At that point, I acctually shouted "Why the hell would he say it then you stupid ***".

Wow. You're right. I do feel better :biggrin: Wheeeew.

Aah, that was awesome. Thanks a lot for that, because I would have written something like that on my own time.

Here is an article some of you might find interesting:

http://www.pinkraygun.com/2008/02/22/lost-eggtown-or-why-i-hate-kate/#comment-6102

I am sick of her and that ridiculous triangle. They have turned her character in to a bloody pain in the arse, immature, pathetic, fickle, irritating, the list goes on and on!!!

I am sick of her and that ridiculous triangle. They have turned her character in to a bloody pain in the arse, immature, pathetic, fickle, irritating, the list goes on and on!!!

For me, she has been that way since "Whatever the Case May Be".

I really don't like Kate, I don't like how the character is written and her silly triangle and how she always needs to be saved. I really don't like her episodes

I really don't like Kate, I don't like how the character is written and her silly triangle and how she always needs to be saved. I really don't like her episodesOf course I have to agree. At first, before I found out her past, I found her interesting but the more I learn about her the more I wouldn't want to be hanging with her at all. Even in "The Other Woman" and "Ji Yeon" she was just ucky.

Yeah, I guess Kate lost her mystery a long time ago. Even this season what was left of her mystery was "How did she get out of jail" and even that turned out to be a lame episode or better said a lame way to continue with the plot. And all that was left for her character to do was to bounce back between two men. She really annoyed me in Ji Yeon, she was ready to let Sun go to Locke's camp, after she got banished and called Locke a dictator, what's up with that?!

The balloons are confusing me...

Here is an article some of you might find interesting:

http://www.pinkraygun.com/2008/02/22/lost-eggtown-or-why-i-hate-kate/#comment-6102Ahh, a kindred spirit. I invited her over. :biggrin:

Yeah, I guess Kate lost her mystery a long time ago. Even this season what was left of her mystery was "How did she get out of jail" and even that turned out to be a lame episode or better said a lame way to continue with the plot. And all that was left for her character to do was to bounce back between two men. She really annoyed me in Ji Yeon, she was ready to let Sun go to Locke's camp, after she got banished and called Locke a dictator, what's up with that?!

The balloons are confusing me...But you forget one of her strongest qualities ... Kate. She only cares about herself. :mad:

I'm completely sick of Kate. The beginning of "Ji Yeon" is really what put me over the head, where she acts like an immature twit about both Charlotte and Juliet, and then, to get some sort of passive aggressive revenge on the latter, sends Sun off to certain death. Some friend.

Man, one of my favourite scenes of the season was when Charlotte knocked Kate out. That was a magical moment. :biggrin:

I really just can't stand her. And it's not bad writing, the love triangle, the awful episodes or any of that. I just don't like Kate. She was a character with a lot of potential but also a lot of different ways they could take her, and when they developed her in the one they chose I figured out that I don't like the whole package. She's wishy-washy, she's selfish, she's immature, she's a user, and she's just not the strong independent girl I thought she was going to be on first impression (which looking back, I don't really know why I ever even had that first impression considering the sobbing screaming for Jack in the Pilot).

Even if I dislike them, most characters don't make me hate them though so I'm thinking my problem is as much the amount of Kate as Kate herself. Why does Kate have to be invovled with everything?

And the rationale that well, if it wasn't for the love triangle I would like her annoys me. Kate is the love triangle. The love triangle is her choice. She's not caught in it against her will. That she is sleeping with Sawyer and flirting with Jack is her choice, and it can't be reduced to TPTB choosing to sacrifice her character just to placate fan groups because she's been playing both sides since S1. What she is now has always been Kate. I do love that Jack is being less receptive though. When he sent her back to Sawyer I was happy. The way her face brightened when he said that he lied about not loving her in the garage scene made me want to slap her because I just know she thought she had him again, but I was glad it didn't go that way. Sawyer calling her on her non-committal actions was my favorite part of Eggtown. I hope he sticks with it.

This is turning into a rant, but my biggest problem with Kate is that she brings down both Sawyer and Jack, and now Sun. She brings out Jack's stubborn, arrogant side. She keeps flirting with him even though she's sleeping with Sawyer and expects him to respond, then gives the sad, poor me look if he doesn't. Sawyer is losing his edge trying to make their relationship work and she just uses him. She knows he is in love with her. Yet she talks about him behind his back (TTLG), flirts with other men, uses him however she wants for her own issues, and then gets angry whenever he doesn't give her the responses she wants. I used to be okay with the Sun/Kate friendship but since DOC it's been bothering me a lot. I hate that she's willing to hurt Sun just to passive agressively hit at Juliet. Juliet never said that the Others were stealing babies to experiment on them, yet that's what Kate told Sun. That would scare any mother half to death. I hated her similar behavior in Ji Yeon. Not trusting Juliet is fine and understandable, but there was no reason her Juliet comment was needed other than to scare Sun and Jin and turn them against Juliet. Then she just stood there and watched the fallout, just like DOC, while Sun and Juliet tried to deal with it.

I'll finish by saying that I also don't think she's inconsistent. Behavior patterns like her running to Jack when she wasn't supposed to can be found back in S1. She has always insisted on being the go-to girl of the A-Team and hasn't reacted well if she couldn't be. She's always wanted to play with Sawyer and still have Jack. She's always been involved with everything, even when there was no need for her to be. She's always hated to be called on her bad behavior. She's always been a user. She's always had dumb tendencies. She is not inconsistent to me. Just dislikable.

wow.. i think jupiter pretty much summed it up...i agree with all of the above...wishy-washy,selfish and just plain annoying

I really just can't stand her. And it's not bad writing, the love triangle, the awful episodes or any of that. I just don't like Kate. She was a character with a lot of potential but also a lot of different ways they could take her, and when they developed her in the one they chose I figured out that I don't like the whole package. She's wishy-washy, she's selfish, she's immature, she's a user, and she's just not the strong independent girl I thought she was going to be on first impression (which looking back, I don't really know why I ever even had that first impression considering the sobbing screaming for Jack in the Pilot).

Even if I dislike them, most characters don't make me hate them though so I'm thinking my problem is as much the amount of Kate as Kate herself. Why does Kate have to be invovled with everything?

And the rationale that well, if it wasn't for the love triangle I would like her annoys me. Kate is the love triangle. The love triangle is her choice. She's not caught in it against her will. That she is sleeping with Sawyer and flirting with Jack is her choice, and it can't be reduced to TPTB choosing to sacrifice her character just to placate fan groups because she's been playing both sides since S1. What she is now has always been Kate. I do love that Jack is being less receptive though. When he sent her back to Sawyer I was happy. The way her face brightened when he said that he lied about not loving her in the garage scene made me want to slap her because I just know she thought she had him again, but I was glad it didn't go that way. Sawyer calling her on her non-committal actions was my favorite part of Eggtown. I hope he sticks with it.

This is turning into a rant, but my biggest problem with Kate is that she brings down both Sawyer and Jack, and now Sun. She brings out Jack's stubborn, arrogant side. She keeps flirting with him even though she's sleeping with Sawyer and expects him to respond, then gives the sad, poor me look if he doesn't. Sawyer is losing his edge trying to make their relationship work and she just uses him. She knows he is in love with her. Yet she talks about him behind his back (TTLG), flirts with other men, uses him however she wants for her own issues, and then gets angry whenever he doesn't give her the responses she wants. I used to be okay with the Sun/Kate friendship but since DOC it's been bothering me a lot. I hate that she's willing to hurt Sun just to passive agressively hit at Juliet. Juliet never said that the Others were stealing babies to experiment on them, yet that's what Kate told Sun. That would scare any mother half to death. I hated her similar behavior in Ji Yeon. Not trusting Juliet is fine and understandable, but there was no reason her Juliet comment was needed other than to scare Sun and Jin and turn them against Juliet. Then she just stood there and watched the fallout, just like DOC, while Sun and Juliet tried to deal with it.

I'll finish by saying that I also don't think she's inconsistent. Behavior patterns like her running to Jack when she wasn't supposed to can be found back in S1. She has always insisted on being the go-to girl of the A-Team and hasn't reacted well if she couldn't be. She's always wanted to play with Sawyer and still have Jack. She's always been involved with everything, even when there was no need for her to be. She's always hated to be called on her bad behavior. She's always been a user. She's always had dumb tendencies. She is not inconsistent to me. Just dislikable.


Wow! Wow! Amazing post. You know, I don't dislike Kate for just the hell of it. I'm aware that she is capable of some pretty dark actions. I'm also aware that the other Losties are capable of the same. Just about anyone is.

But Kate annoys me . . . sooo much! Ever since "Whatever the Case", she has . . . I don't know. She possesses a personality that rubbed me the wrong way. There were moments when I found her quite tolerable or even likeable. But they were only moments. Sometimes I wonder if the actress, Evangeline Lily likes Kate.

Kate has sunk so low she has managed to make Jack my second least favorite character.

Kate has sunk so low she has managed to make Jack my second least favorite character.They're still tied in my book. ;) I think they deserve each other. James can do WAY better and I hope the let him wake up and realize that!

Here is an article some of you might find interesting:

http://www.pinkraygun.com/2008/02/22/lost-eggtown-or-why-i-hate-kate/#comment-6102

LOL funny, and spot on :p, thanks for this :)

Kate has sunk so low she has managed to make Jack my second least favorite character.

Wow :eek2:

They're still tied in my book. ;) I think they deserve each other. James can do WAY better and I hope the let him wake up and realize that!

Yikes! (don't tell anyone;), but sometimes I think I should ship Suliet :p)

Well, like others here, I'm done being disappointed by Kate. I don't think I like her anymore, and I don't think I will ever like her again. I don't like her episodes, and I think her abilities change in order to serve the plot. I just don't think she's well written...I don't want to say I hate her, because well, I love Lost :p. But she's defenetely not my fave.

Indeed that recap was funny and so true.

It's sad that we're stuck with Kate for the rest of the season, not only that until the show catches up with the FF.

Sucks

Thought you guys might enjoy this (http://www.screenerd.com/reviews/Lost0404).

She's wishy-washy, she's selfish, she's immature, she's a user, and she's just not the strong independent girl I thought she was going to be on first impression to me.

Yep. And no, I don't think she's been inconsistent for the last... oh... I don't know... three years and a half. I just think she's inconsistent with who the character was supposed to be when she was created as a template by JJ Abrams and Damon. In the meantime, a former straight A student who discussed John Locke with the other Locke (in an earlier draft of Walkabout) says things like: "Shut up and don't talk!" which most third graders would laugh at, all for the sake of some shots of her licking Sawyer and then slooooowly squeezing into her jeans the morning after. She's brainded half the time and supposedly this cunning, super skilled fugitive the other half, except I fail to find her believable (and yes, the acting is part of it... way too many blank stares and pouts) or sympathetic when I'm supposed to sob for her cause she murdered in cold blood to make herself feel better.

Thought you guys might enjoy this (http://www.screenerd.com/reviews/Lost0404).



Yep. And no, I don't think she's been inconsistent for the last... oh... I don't know... three years and a half. I just think she's inconsistent with who the character was supposed to be when she was created as a template by JJ Abrams and Damon. In the meantime, a former straight A student who discussed John Locke with the other Locke (in an earlier draft of Walkabout) says things like: "Shut up and don't talk!" which most third graders would laugh at, all for the sake of some shots of her licking Sawyer and then slooooowly squeezing into her jeans the morning after. She's brainded half the time and supposedly this cunning, super skilled fugitive the other half, except I fail to find her believable (and yes, the acting is part of it... way too many blank stares and pouts) or sympathetic when I'm supposed to sob for her cause she murdered in cold blood to make herself feel better.I do have to say that I completely enjoy Evie's acting. For me it's that she really isn't given much to act *on*. The character has been watered down to nothing but the bird in a Badminton game between Jack and Sawyer and so what's left to really bring to the table other than pouts and blank stares? They began with a good character that I did want to know about but by now ... I wouldn't even miss her if she just never showed up again ... a reversal, if you will, of how Pikki suddenly appeared. LOL They've just turned her into a one-sided card, one-faced coin, a door that opens into a wall ... in other words, they've turned the character into a facade and it's really disappointing. And when they do give her some substance it's all childish and selfish. She's just not *matured* into a very mature character and I guess I just expected more.

I don't know if I completely enjoy her acting. She's okay, but when you have actresses like Yunjin Kim and Elizabeth Mitchell, it is hard to give Evie Lily high praise.

Interesting posts, I never thought there were so many people to dislike her in this way.

I used to like her in S1, and I too expected her to turn into something else. She could have turned out a strong woman who knows what she wants and knows how to get it, but instead she is just "the belle of the ball" who expects guys to respond even if she doesn't ask... who always wants the thing that she doesn't have. She is playing Sawyer only because she can have him... so naturally she wants Jack now because he gave up on her.
Where did the strong and warm hearted woman go, who wanted to secure the reward for the man who sold her out?

They're still tied in my book. ;) I think they deserve each other. James can do WAY better and I hope the let him wake up and realize that!

I don't totally agree with this. Perhaps the triangle/quadrangle, whatever did a lot of damage to all the characters involved, but Jack had a downfall that he managed all by himself. All the senseless shouting and crying and power struggle of S2 ruined him completely for me. I believe that his hysterical ranting at Des in the jungle in Orientation was the beginning of the end for me, and since then he only went from bad to worse.

:cheer: :73happy: :woohoo: :14happy: :clap: :jump: :jump1:


I love this thread!!!!!! There's no point in writing down my dislike for Kate. Ya'll have done that for me! Thanks.

:cheer: :73happy: :woohoo: :14happy: :clap: :jump: :jump1:


I love this thread!!!!!! There's no point in writing down my dislike for Kate. Ya'll have done that for me! Thanks.LOL Happy to have you! But go ahead ... voice your dislike. The more the merrier! :biggrin:

And speaking of ... last Thurs ep was another fine example of Kate's coy little grin and her feeble attempt at flirting with Jack. Didn't he tell her he loved her? Why still play the game? Make a move, lady or get out of line. Sheesh! :rolleyes:

Ugh, I try not to post in these type of threads but my God, there is not a more annoying, loathsome character on Lost. I would rather watch Michael than her. MICHAEL! And I truly hate Michael, so that says a lot about my opinion of Kate.

She completely bores me. I'm sick of watching her flirt and constantly go between two men. I'm sick of watching her kiss said two men. I'm sick of seeing her bathe herself. I'm sick of seeing her involve herself in every single bloody situation that doesn't involve her. I hate that she is raising Aaron.

Truly terrible character. Oh, and all this shipper nonsense - Jate/Skate, makes me insane.

Ugh, I try not to post in these type of threads but my God, there is not a more annoying, loathsome character on Lost. I would rather watch Michael than her. MICHAEL! And I truly hate Michael, so that says a lot about my opinion of Kate.

She completely bores me. I'm sick of watching her flirt and constantly go between two men. I'm sick of watching her kiss said two men. I'm sick of seeing her bathe herself. I'm sick of seeing her involve herself in every single bloody situation that doesn't involve her. I hate that she is raising Aaron.

Truly terrible character. Oh, and all this shipper nonsense - Jate/Skate, makes me insane.
Hey Shamrock! Couldn't agree more! How many times do they have to make her look coy as she peeks over her shoulder ... or as she removes the straps off said shoulders. If it were me, I'd be griping for better stage directions and a more involved plot that didn't keep using and reusing the same gestures. And I agree, too, that I'm not thrilled with her raising Aaron and I hope that goes well for the baby's sake.

Ugh, I try not to post in these type of threads but my God, there is not a more annoying, loathsome character on Lost. I would rather watch Michael than her. MICHAEL! And I truly hate Michael, so that says a lot about my opinion of Kate.

She completely bores me. I'm sick of watching her flirt and constantly go between two men. I'm sick of watching her kiss said two men. I'm sick of seeing her bathe herself. I'm sick of seeing her involve herself in every single bloody situation that doesn't involve her. I hate that she is raising Aaron.

Truly terrible character. Oh, and all this shipper nonsense - Jate/Skate, makes me insane.
:clapping:

Hey Shamrock! Couldn't agree more! How many times do they have to make her look coy as she peeks over her shoulder ... or as she removes the straps off said shoulders. If it were me, I'd be griping for better stage directions and a more involved plot that didn't keep using and reusing the same gestures.

I actually feel sorry for Evangeline, because she is a beautiful and talented actress and part of one of the strongest ensemble casts in television history. Yet her role is reduced to little more than flashing a bit of flesh and kissing guys. That is all the character of Kate is to me.

To be fair, from day one, I've never been too fond of the character. But since season 2, she has become consistently worse. She's damn near unwatchable. And to make matters worse, she is featuring even more. If they had kept her and her man troubles in their own little bubble, I could tolerate it. But they've now placed right in the middle of the RBA prophecy. From season one, it was one of the plot points of Lost that had me gripped. I couldn't wait to see it picked up and knew that eventually, in order for it to happen, Claire and Aaron had to be separated. But why did they have to give him to Kate?!

I just have an awful feeling that one of my most-anticipated storylines will be inflicted with Kate and her man troubles. Already I've seen shipper wars (not here, thankfully) erupting about who is more fit to care for Aaron - Kate/Jack or Kate/Sawyer? The real questions that should be focused on are why Claire has to raise him? Why no one else can? What will happen if she doesn't raise him? Not on who Kate will pick as Aaron's father figure. The character has a real ability to drag characters down to her level (Sawyer, anyone?) and I just hope she doesn't pull this entire plot down with her.

In fact, the only way Kate can even be redeemed in my eyes, is for her give Aaron back to his rightful mother (If she's alive) and to end the show as a single woman.

Shamrock, even Hurley tells Jack he's not supposed to raise Aaron. It just seems that Kate gets these roles because she's Kate and yet they don't seem to jive with the rest of the story. Unless, at the very end of the series, Kate's fickleness plays a vibrant part in the whole mystery, I'll feel as I do now ... that the character is just a waste of screen time.

Shamrock, even Hurley tells Jack he's not supposed to raise Aaron. It just seems that Kate gets these roles because she's Kate and yet they don't seem to jive with the rest of the story. Unless, at the very end of the series, Kate's fickleness plays a vibrant part in the whole mystery, I'll feel as I do now ... that the character is just a waste of screen time.

Let's face it, she should be in jail. And I find it insuting that TPTB side-stepped the legal system in order to make Kate taking care of Aaron remotely plausible. Unless it is revealed that an O6 cover-up made some shadowy figure pull some strings to allow her freedom, the fact that she is free will annoy me.

She has potential as a character, but as every episode passe, it's just unlikely that my opinion of her will ever change.

Ugh, and the crying! The crying! I'm sick of seeing her cry.

Let's face it, she should be in jail. And I find it insuting that TPTB side-stepped the legal system in order to make Kate taking care of Aaron remotely plausible. Unless it is revealed that an O6 cover-up made some shadowy figure pull some strings to allow her freedom, the fact that she is free will annoy me.

She has potential as a character, but as every episode passe, it's just unlikely that my opinion of her will ever change.

Ugh, and the crying! The crying! I'm sick of seeing her cry.I agree that they better have some 06 strings being pulled to have her get off scott free! Did she even get probation?

The character has (maybe now, had) potential. The writers have just chosen to go down a more traveled road: Female=sex, tragedy, sex, conning & more sex. :mad:

You're sick of her crying? I'm sick of Jack crying! I'm all for tears but enough is enough from both of 'em!

You're sick of her crying? I'm sick of Jack crying! I'm all for tears but enough is enough from both of 'em!

Oh, he annoys me sometimes too. Not to anywhere near the same level as Kate but I've found his personality in season 4 rather off-putting. Though I love him as of TTLG.

I'm so not looking forward to the next few episodes. I fear they'll try to portray Kate in a sympathetic light when she gets off the island and I can't bear to see anyone feeling sorry for "poor Kate". Plus we'll hear the beginning of her Aaron lies, thus cementing my hate for her completely.

I agree that the whole Kate raising Aaron story is horrible. That episode made me doubt that Lost would ever be able to shock or surprise me again because it was the most pathetic pile of contrived bunk put together for the sole purpose of giving your lead female something to do that I can't stomach it.

Aaron is probably somewhat pivotal in Jack's overall story as far as his needing to get back to the island and the things that are driving that, but why they had to hand him over to Kate in order to accomplish that is beyond me, well no it's not, it's been set up that way so they can keep their stupid triangle story alive and well. Jack testifying for her in court was the stuff bad fan fiction is made of. Her getting away with murder with a slap on the wrist and then her supposedly instantly transforming into the bestest soccer mom in all of southern California is the absolute worst thing about Season 4 and it infuriates me every time she calls him "my son". I don't hate Kate, but I absolutely hate, hate, hate that she has that child.

I agree that the whole Kate raising Aaron story is horrible. That episode made me doubt that Lost would ever be able to shock or surprise me again because it was the most pathetic pile of contrived bunk put together for the sole purpose of giving your lead female something to do that I can't stomach it.

Aaron is probably somewhat pivotal in Jack's overall story as far as his needing to get back to the island and the things that are driving that, but why they had to hand him over to Kate in order to accomplish that is beyond me, well no it's not, it's been set up that way so they can keep their stupid triangle story alive and well. Jack testifying for her in court was the stuff bad fan fiction is made of. Her getting away with murder with a slap on the wrist and then her supposedly instantly transforming into the bestest soccer mom in all of southern California is the absolute worst thing about Season 4 and it infuriates me every time she calls him "my son". I don't hate Kate, but I absolutely hate, hate, hate that she has that child.Oh yeah! Don't get me started on the whole courtroom scene. They better show us that some major strings were pulled to get her off scott free or I'm going to really be ticked.

I saw an interview with her recently (can't recall where ... oh, yeah. DarkUFO had it on his site. It was a radio interview) and she was asked about the triangle and (I think) what if it ended [was resolved]. She said that they'd be "moonlighting and looking for work." I thought, WTH? Does she seriously believe that if the triangle was resolved that the show would be over? Is she watching the same show we are? How the heck does the triangle hold up the entire show? That was too much for me. (And I'm not bashing the actress. I think she's just been sucked in by all the Jater and Skate hype.) But seriously, Lost will live on long and hard well after they end the triangle (if they ever end it, that is).

Oh yeah! Don't get me started on the whole courtroom scene. They better show us that some major strings were pulled to get her off scott free or I'm going to really be ticked.

I saw an interview with her recently (can't recall where ... oh, yeah. DarkUFO had it on his site. It was a radio interview) and she was asked about the triangle and (I think) what if it ended [was resolved]. She said that they'd be "moonlighting and looking for work." I thought, WTH? Does she seriously believe that if the triangle was resolved that the show would be over? Is she watching the same show we are? How the heck does the triangle hold up the entire show? That was too much for me. (And I'm not bashing the actress. I think she's just been sucked in by all the Jater and Skate hype.) But seriously, Lost will live on long and hard well after they end the triangle (if they ever end it, that is).

Hi Jane,

What Evi was referring to, I'm pretty sure, was "Moonlighting", the series with Bruce Willis and Cybill Shepherd. There's a thought out there that when Dave and Maddie got together in Season 3 that it ended the show because viewers had nothing left to look forward to - ie Once they'd "done it", all the tension was gone. Shows, since, avoid putting their couple together foreva since then because they want to keep viewers invested. I just wanted to clarify - not defending or anything.

Have a good one.

I agree that the whole Kate raising Aaron story is horrible. That episode made me doubt that Lost would ever be able to shock or surprise me again because it was the most pathetic pile of contrived bunk put together for the sole purpose of giving your lead female something to do that I can't stomach it.

Aaron is probably somewhat pivotal in Jack's overall story as far as his needing to get back to the island and the things that are driving that, but why they had to hand him over to Kate in order to accomplish that is beyond me, well no it's not, it's been set up that way so they can keep their stupid triangle story alive and well. Jack testifying for her in court was the stuff bad fan fiction is made of. Her getting away with murder with a slap on the wrist and then her supposedly instantly transforming into the bestest soccer mom in all of southern California is the absolute worst thing about Season 4 and it infuriates me every time she calls him "my son". I don't hate Kate, but I absolutely hate, hate, hate that she has that child.

Oh flyer,

I am right there with you! I love that Aaron is Jack's nephew and I can see the importance of him in Jack's life, but why they had to give Aaron to Kate is also beyond me. And when she calls him "my son", I absolutely cringe.:angry: It is really eerie. Although I did read in T.V. Guide this morning that from the time the 06 get back to civilization until we see Jack and Kate at the airport in TTLG is almost 2 years, which would explain Aaron's sudden growth spurt! But even though she's had him for a long time, she should be telling him great things about his mother and what she went through for him and how much Claire loves him. Instead of using him as her ticket to freedom, which is how I see it in a way.

And also the fact that he is Jack's nephew and he has a grandmother, who we saw, and he's got other family members who should righfully have custody of him - but he's Kate's "son"??:huh: I guess it's all part of the big "secret" and why they can't say he is Claire's son.

There have been plenty of times where I've had to stretch my imagination to believe some of the things we are actually being shown. But as far as Kate's trial and the "punishment" she received for the myriad of crimes she committed, and her having custody of Aaron, and becoming "the bestest soccer mom in all of southern California" (nice one, by the way ;)) - compiled with everything else - well, we are being asked to swallow a lot. However, somehow they explain it away to where I'm actually saying to myself "okay, that makes sense".:undecide:

So now, I imagine the 2-hour finale will only add to the million questions I have and my hair loss!;)

But it's LOST, and I have to admit, I still love it!:biggrin:

Take care,

Doc

What Evi was referring to, I'm pretty sure, was "Moonlighting", the series with Bruce Willis and Cybill Shepherd. There's a thought out there that when Dave and Maddie got together in Season 3 that it ended the show because viewers had nothing left to look forward to - ie Once they'd "done it", all the tension was gone. Shows, since, avoid putting their couple together foreva since then because they want to keep viewers invested. I just wanted to clarify - not defending or anything.


I think any of us that are old enough to remember "Moonlighting" (which Evie of course isn't) understood what she was talking about and I don't blame the girl for latching onto the recycled excuses she's heard or read about to try to explain her character because I'm sure she doesn't understand why that pathetic excuse for romance continues on either. Well, it's pretty obvious why it continues on, but......

Whereas the romantic tension between Dave and Maddie was pretty much the crux of Moonlighting, the ping-ponging between two men is not the crux of LOST and her hooking up with one guy and making an actual firm choice would not affect the show at all because I don't believe most fans really care, in fact, most don't even get it anymore. Now they expect us to buy this "OMG, the baby changed her and she's all perfect and wonderful and ready to own up to her past deeds"..............oops, that's right, she still isn't willing to accept that what she did was wrong is she? No, now she's passing Aaron off as "her son" and it doesn't even seem to bother her and I want to know why that had to be that way. I want to hear the really good reason for why their "lie" had to include passing off that baby as Kate's baby instead of reuniting him with his real family.

flyer,

do you really think we'll get that explanation or will they just skim over it the way they did her trial?

DL

Oh they'll probably just skim over it. It'll probably be some B.S. we're supposed to buy into where two men as intelligent as Jack and Sayid decided that allowing a lying, stealing, manipulative, murderer to pass Aaron off as her son would be in the best interest of the child. Why not? Look how miraculously changed Kate has become and we're supposed to be buying that hook, line and sinker.

Sorry, I don't mean to sound so bitter, but I absolutely hate, hate, hate this particular storyline and feel like the writers really dropped the ball and in a big way. There were so many things they could've done to keep Kate interesting, but I guess because she's a woman, turning her into the bestest soccer mom ever was the best they could come up with. It's been the most disappointing aspect of Season 4 for me and one of the reasons I rate Season 4 as the worst season so far.

Don't apologize at all. I'm finding a few of the storylines really old and stale. I haven't quite given up, but I think that, given the number of stories they could have come up with for several of the characters, they either simply killed them off (Alex/Danielle) or took the easy way and gave us questionable explanations (Kate).

I still think it's the best show on television and I am looking forward to seeing it all come together, however, I hope the remainder is handled a bit better than this last season.

I'm holding onto a small sliver of hope that we are going to see the reason for Kate having Aaron is so the psychic's words of warning to Claire will come to pass because when I look at Kate or what they are trying to make us believe is Kate these two things come to mind immediately and I want to know if it ever meant anything or if its going to become more throw away lines like Charlie's "I don't swim!" to Jack in White Rabbit.

The Marshall told Jack, "Don't trust her she'll do anything to get away". So, has that part of Kate been magically cured by mommihood?

The most puzzling if not chilling detail though is when Kate asked Sam why he didn't tell her that Wayne was her father and Sam told her he didn't tell her because he knew she'd kill him and then Kate asked Sam why he didn't just kill him (that seems to be Kate's easy answer for things that bother her.......see her asking Jack the same question in TTLG) and Sam answers "because I don't have murder in my heart".

Sam Austen basically implied that he believed his daughter had murder in her heart and the question of course is why. What did Sam see in Kate that would make him believe such a thing and has that "thing" also been miraculously cured by mommihood?

It's not Kate's fault. They couldn't find Claire and Sun has Aaron. Sun couldn't pretend that Aaron was hers no one would believe her. Kate was the only person who could pretend to be Aaron's mom and people would believe it. The Oceanic 6 had to have a believeable story when they came back with a 5 week old baby.

I'm holding onto a small sliver of hope that we are going to see the reason for Kate having Aaron is so the psychic's words of warning to Claire will come to pass because when I look at Kate or what they are trying to make us believe is Kate these two things come to mind immediately and I want to know if it ever meant anything or if its going to become more throw away lines like Charlie's "I don't swim!" to Jack in White Rabbit.

The Marshall told Jack, "Don't trust her she'll do anything to get away". So, has that part of Kate been magically cured by mommihood?

The most puzzling if not chilling detail though is when Kate asked Sam why he didn't tell her that Wayne was her father and Sam told her he didn't tell her because he knew she'd kill him and then Kate asked Sam why he didn't just kill him (that seems to be Kate's easy answer for things that bother her.......see her asking Jack the same question in TTLG) and Sam answers "because I don't have murder in my heart".

Sam Austen basically implied that he believed his daughter had murder in her heart and the question of course is why. What did Sam see in Kate that would make him believe such a thing and has that "thing" also been miraculously cured by mommihood?


You know the island has done a lot of things to these people, maybe it's "cured" Kate.:rolleyes: Maybe it's not so much that she has Aaron right now, as it is the fact that she is calling him "my son". I mean, it's one thing to maybe have to say it to the media for the sake of appearances and whatever the big lie is, but it's another thing for her to actually believe that Aaron is HER son, which it seems she does believe. That is the eerie part. Even in the privacy of their own home where they should be able to let loose a little and breathe easier, she is still calling him her son, when Jack is more to Aaron that Kate will ever be. That is something that definitely needs to be rectified before all is said and done. Do you think that Jack told Kate about Claire and Claire's mother (Aaron's grandmother)?

Hopefully, once we are let in on what the big lie is and why they HAVE to live this lie, all this will make a bit more sense to us, but right now it's still very murky, imo.

Doc

You know the island has done a lot of things to these people, maybe it's "cured" Kate.:rolleyes: Maybe it's not so much that she has Aaron right now, as it is the fact that she is calling him "my son". I mean, it's one thing to maybe have to say it to the media for the sake of appearances and whatever the big lie is, but it's another thing for her to actually believe that Aaron is HER son, which it seems she does believe. That is the eerie part. Even in the privacy of their own home where they should be able to let loose a little and breathe easier, she is still calling him her son, when Jack is more to Aaron that Kate will ever be. That is something that definitely needs to be rectified before all is said and done. Do you think that Jack told Kate about Claire and Claire's mother (Aaron's grandmother)?

Hopefully, once we are let in on what the big lie is and why they HAVE to live this lie, all this will make a bit more sense to us, but right now it's still very murky, imo.

Doc

Kate not having any problem living with and carrying out the lie to the point of calling Aaron "my son" constantly isn't that weird considering it's Kate who has never had any problem being a liar and doing so quite easily and without a conscience. She knows Aaron is Jack's nephew she just doesn't care. That Kate seems to be the only one that is living happy and guilt free in the future isn't surprising. I mean we're talking about a woman that blew her father up because she couldn't stand that they shared the same DNA and she's never shown any remorse over it so why would passing Claire's son off as her own and expecting Jack to happily go along with that be surprising. It's not and that's why I'm not buying the bestest ever soccer mom thing they are attempting to force feed us. It's crap and it makes me sick. However, Jack attempting to live the lie and do so with a smile on his face made me even sicker so I was glad to see him not be able to do it, eventually self-destruct and remove himself from that ridiculous situation.

Yeah, I'm looking forward to finding out why they are lying and why Kate being Aaron's mom had to be part of the lie and if I don't get a really good and satisfying answer I may have to hunt Darlton down and chunk my LOST DVDs at them.

Hi Jane,

What Evi was referring to, I'm pretty sure, was "Moonlighting", the series with Bruce Willis and Cybill Shepherd. There's a thought out there that when Dave and Maddie got together in Season 3 that it ended the show because viewers had nothing left to look forward to - ie Once they'd "done it", all the tension was gone. Shows, since, avoid putting their couple together foreva since then because they want to keep viewers invested. I just wanted to clarify - not defending or anything.

Have a good one.Maybe so ... maybe not. I know I didn't get that connection at all when I heard it and I was a die-hard (pun intended) Moonlighting fan. (They filmed all the office building parking garage scenes at my building so I even hung out to ogle BW. LOL) But for sake of argument, it's no comparison at all. Lost isn't just about the triangle (and boy oh boy will I be ticked off it is!) while Moonlighting was always about those two ... their cases were only fodder to give them reasons to interact and get the chemistry flowing. Not the same by any shape or form. And personally, I think it's a slight of how fantastic this show is to compare it to Moonlighting ... fabulous comedy as it was, it sure twernt no Lost!

I think any of us that are old enough to remember "Moonlighting" (which Evie of course isn't) understood what she was talking about and I don't blame the girl for latching onto the recycled excuses she's heard or read about to try to explain her character because I'm sure she doesn't understand why that pathetic excuse for romance continues on either. Well, it's pretty obvious why it continues on, but......

Whereas the romantic tension between Dave and Maddie was pretty much the crux of Moonlighting, the ping-ponging between two men is not the crux of LOST and her hooking up with one guy and making an actual firm choice would not affect the show at all because I don't believe most fans really care, in fact, most don't even get it anymore. Now they expect us to buy this "OMG, the baby changed her and she's all perfect and wonderful and ready to own up to her past deeds"..............oops, that's right, she still isn't willing to accept that what she did was wrong is she? No, now she's passing Aaron off as "her son" and it doesn't even seem to bother her and I want to know why that had to be that way. I want to hear the really good reason for why their "lie" had to include passing off that baby as Kate's baby instead of reuniting him with his real family.Yep, exactly. (Darn young whipper snappers! ;) )

I'm holding onto a small sliver of hope that we are going to see the reason for Kate having Aaron is so the psychic's words of warning to Claire will come to pass because when I look at Kate or what they are trying to make us believe is Kate these two things come to mind immediately and I want to know if it ever meant anything or if its going to become more throw away lines like Charlie's "I don't swim!" to Jack in White Rabbit.

The Marshall told Jack, "Don't trust her she'll do anything to get away". So, has that part of Kate been magically cured by mommihood?

The most puzzling if not chilling detail though is when Kate asked Sam why he didn't tell her that Wayne was her father and Sam told her he didn't tell her because he knew she'd kill him and then Kate asked Sam why he didn't just kill him (that seems to be Kate's easy answer for things that bother her.......see her asking Jack the same question in TTLG) and Sam answers "because I don't have murder in my heart".

Sam Austen basically implied that he believed his daughter had murder in her heart and the question of course is why. What did Sam see in Kate that would make him believe such a thing and has that "thing" also been miraculously cured by mommihood?See, I don't get why people are thinking and saying that Kate has changed now that she has Aaron. I don't see any change. She's still lying, still putting on a fake front, still the same old Kate in my eyes. And promise or not, still holding on to Swayer despite being with Jack. Why not just tell the guy what she had to do for James? Why make it seem like it's more than it is (according to her)? She just still seems to love to pit the two against each other. Makes me ill!

It's not Kate's fault. They couldn't find Claire and Sun has Aaron. Sun couldn't pretend that Aaron was hers no one would believe her. Kate was the only person who could pretend to be Aaron's mom and people would believe it. The Oceanic 6 had to have a believeable story when they came back with a 5 week old baby.Um, sorry but didn't Jack say there were 8 original survivors? Why couldn't Claire have been one of the two that didn't make it? Nope, not a good enough reason at all. And just a reminder ... this thread isn't for defending Kate. Thread rules for this section are: "I'm Just Not That Into You A place to talk about the things you don't like about the character. If you like the character you might want to avoid this section."

You know the island has done a lot of things to these people, maybe it's "cured" Kate.:rolleyes: Maybe it's not so much that she has Aaron right now, as it is the fact that she is calling him "my son". I mean, it's one thing to maybe have to say it to the media for the sake of appearances and whatever the big lie is, but it's another thing for her to actually believe that Aaron is HER son, which it seems she does believe. That is the eerie part. Even in the privacy of their own home where they should be able to let loose a little and breathe easier, she is still calling him her son, when Jack is more to Aaron that Kate will ever be. That is something that definitely needs to be rectified before all is said and done. Do you think that Jack told Kate about Claire and Claire's mother (Aaron's grandmother)?

Hopefully, once we are let in on what the big lie is and why they HAVE to live this lie, all this will make a bit more sense to us, but right now it's still very murky, imo.

DocDoc, I think they're going to have to give us more than they have so far for me to believe Kate is "cured." You brought up excellent points about how she is clearly not changed. She truly believes, I think, that Aaron is now hers. If given the chance to return Aaron to Claire, I doubt she would unless forced.

Kate not having any problem living with and carrying out the lie to the point of calling Aaron "my son" constantly isn't that weird considering it's Kate who has never had any problem being a liar and doing so quite easily and without a conscience. She knows Aaron is Jack's nephew she just doesn't care. That Kate seems to be the only one that is living happy and guilt free in the future isn't surprising. I mean we're talking about a woman that blew her father up because she couldn't stand that they shared the same DNA and she's never shown any remorse over it so why would passing Claire's son off as her own and expecting Jack to happily go along with that be surprising. It's not and that's why I'm not buying the bestest ever soccer mom thing they are attempting to force feed us. It's crap and it makes me sick. However, Jack attempting to live the lie and do so with a smile on his face made me even sicker so I was glad to see him not be able to do it, eventually self-destruct and remove himself from that ridiculous situation.

Yeah, I'm looking forward to finding out why they are lying and why Kate being Aaron's mom had to be part of the lie and if I don't get a really good and satisfying answer I may have to hunt Darlton down and chunk my LOST DVDs at them.Very good observation about Kate seeming to be the only one that's happy. She seems to have what I bet she's always wanted. Gorgeous home, baby, nanny, money, nice clothes, all the appearance of being upright and solid in the community. And it's all just one big lie!

I have to say I will be really pissed if every one of them (the 06) spirals out of control to the point of knowing that they must go back to the island, except for Kate. But I feel that might happen. And then I will join flyer in the hunt down of Darlton and gladly chuck my Lost DVD's at them!

I have to say I will be really pissed if every one of them (the 06) spirals out of control to the point of knowing that they must go back to the island, except for Kate. But I feel that might happen. And then I will join flyer in the hunt down of Darlton and gladly chuck my Lost DVD's at them!I dunno. I kind of like the idea of her not going back if going back makes it right for everyone. Of course Jack will have to take Aaron with him or I will hunt him down like a Sawyer after Cooper! I would like for Miss Fickle to be left out in the cold. It would server her right.

I dunno. I kind of like the idea of her not going back if going back makes it right for everyone. Of course Jack will have to take Aaron with him or I will hunt him down like a Sawyer after Cooper! I would like for Miss Fickle to be left out in the cold. It would server her right.

This is true! No matter what happens, it looks like there will be alot of hunting going on here shortly! That's what would make me madder than anything, if Jack doesn't get to take Aaron back to Claire, because that is who Aaron belongs with......no matter what!! (well, if she isn't in "la-la" land with Christian).

This is true! No matter what happens, it looks like there will be alot of hunting going on here shortly! That's what would make me madder than anything, if Jack doesn't get to take Aaron back to Claire, because that is who Aaron belongs with......no matter what!! (well, if she isn't in "la-la" land with Christian).I have a feeling that we won't find out the true *state* that Claire is in by the end of this season so I would seriously hope that Jack will take Aaron from Kate ... especially if he plans on returning to the island because he now knows Aaron is his nephew, he knows that Kate isn't related to Aaron at all, and I think he should take responsibility (after all, isn't that what he's been trying to do from day one?) and take him from Kate whether Claire is alive or not. He simply does not belong with Kate. Period.

I have a feeling that we won't find out the true *state* that Claire is in by the end of this season so I would seriously hope that Jack will take Aaron from Kate ... especially if he plans on returning to the island because he now knows Aaron is his nephew, he knows that Kate isn't related to Aaron at all, and I think he should take responsibility (after all, isn't that what he's been trying to do from day one?) and take him from Kate whether Claire is alive or not. He simply does not belong with Kate. Period.

I agree! The castrated version of Jack that exists in the future needs to be gone. Will the REAL Jack Shephard please find the cajones he had for three seasons and do what has to be done, which is get that child away from Kate. He needs to get his little nephew some jeans, sleeveless tees, a burr haircut, a couple of rub on tattoos and book a one-way trip for two back to crap-hole island. Please and thank you.

I agree! The castrated version of Jack that exists in the future needs to be gone. Will the REAL Jack Shephard please find the cajones he had for three seasons and do what has to be done, which is get that child away from Kate. He needs to get his little nephew some jeans, sleeveless tees, a burr haircut, a couple of rub on tattoos and book a one-way trip for two back to crap-hole island. Please and thank you.Maybe Jack has become another Samson. Once he lost the hair on his chest and arms, there also went his *strength.* :frown:

I sure hope they will go that route. Jack taking Aaron will be so uplifting for me! I mean, what makes one a good soccer mom? Lying, tracking, blowing up houses (with people inside), robbing banks for toy airplanes, running from the law ... shucks, the lists' too long to write out. :rolleyes:

I have a feeling we will definitely be getting our Season 1, 2, 3 (and part of Season 4) back........however, it might not be until late in next season. But who cares? As long as he comes back!! :)

So, there we have it, another season of Kate. I thought it would be interesting to see how our opinions have changed? Have you lessened in your dislike? Has it increased? Was this the seaosn that finally made you enter the 'I'm Just Not That Into Section You' section?

What are your opinions of Kate - Season 4?

I'm not real jazzed by the fact that, she is no angel, yet, she is the one going around smackin' the ever-lovin' out of everyone!! Jack is Aaron's uncle, Kate is not even related to Aaron. She has him because of circumstance, and nothing else. So for her to slap Jack and tell him to "not even say Aaron's name" was way out of line. I don't think she has ANY place to do or say that.

Kate has found herself in many circumstances where she has done the absolute wrong thing, and I strongly believe that was another one of those times.

I am glad that we are beginning to see the cracks in Kate's somewhat fluffy existence. I am looking forward to "Her son" (it still drives me crazy that she calls Aaron HER son) eventually being back with his mother, where he belongs.

Kate needs to realize that, even though it is nice that she has "changed", that doesn't give her the right to act all high and mighty, because her little world is about to come crashing down around her. (the only good thing about that is the fact that, as usual, Jack will be right there helping her out - that is, after he cleans himself up!)

Oh, they both have alot of changing to do in Season 5, and I have no doubt they will.

I don't hate Kate, but I don't see this change that she has gone through as such a great thing, because it is ALL based on a big lie. She is still living the lie and it seems like, besides Sun, she is not ready or willing to accept what inevitably is going to happen.

So, there we have it, another season of Kate. I thought it would be interesting to see how our opinions have changed? Have you lessened in your dislike? Has it increased? Was this the seaosn that finally made you enter the 'I'm Just Not That Into Section You' section?

What are your opinions of Kate - Season 4?Oh the finale did nothing to change my view of the character. If anything, it solidified my disgust for her. I'm really not understanding why she gets this Golden Pass to freedom and mommy-hood and nice house, airline settlement, nanny, great car ... and Aaron! If anyone is less deserving out of the females it's her. I'm starting to wonder if I'll ever accept her or enjoy her like I did in S01. You know, TV mocks life and in life there is a 'no-turning-back-from-this-point' with everything and I'm thinking that I may have reached that point. I'm thinking that (if) when they truly redeem Kate I won't care anymore. I'll say, "Meh, so what? Too little, too late."

I'm not real jazzed by the fact that, she is no angel, yet, she is the one going around smackin' the ever-lovin' out of everyone!! Jack is Aaron's uncle, Kate is not even related to Aaron. She has him because of circumstance, and nothing else. So for her to slap Jack and tell him to "not even say Aaron's name" was way out of line. I don't think she has ANY place to do or say that.

Kate has found herself in many circumstances where she has done the absolute wrong thing, and I strongly believe that was another one of those times.

I am glad that we are beginning to see the cracks in Kate's somewhat fluffy existence. I am looking forward to "Her son" (it still drives me crazy that she calls Aaron HER son) eventually being back with his mother, where he belongs.

Kate needs to realize that, even though it is nice that she has "changed", that doesn't give her the right to act all high and mighty, because her little world is about to come crashing down around her. (the only good thing about that is the fact that, as usual, Jack will be right there helping her out - that is, after he cleans himself up!)

Oh, they both have alot of changing to do in Season 5, and I have no doubt they will.

I don't hate Kate, but I don't see this change that she has gone through as such a great thing, because it is ALL based on a big lie. She is still living the lie and it seems like, besides Sun, she is not ready or willing to accept what inevitably is going to happen.


Oh you know you're preachin' to the choir! I'm not a Jack fan but when she slapped him I was ready to take her out back and make her beg for mercy. You're totally right! Where does she get off putting those restrictions on Jack? She acts like he's the father, she's the mother and he abandoned them both. Too bad Jack was so wasted ... I'd like to have seen him respond properly. My question is why are the writers having her do this? They have to know that her claims are unfounded and will tick a lot of fans off.

Oh the finale did nothing to change my view of the character. If anything, it solidified my disgust for her. I'm really not understanding why she gets this Golden Pass to freedom and mommy-hood and nice house, airline settlement, nanny, great car ... and Aaron! If anyone is less deserving out of the females it's her. I'm starting to wonder if I'll ever accept her or enjoy her like I did in S01. You know, TV mocks life and in life there is a 'no-turning-back-from-this-point' with everything and I'm thinking that I may have reached that point. I'm thinking that (if) when they truly redeem Kate I won't care anymore. I'll say, "Meh, so what? Too little, too late."

Oh you know you're preachin' to the choir! I'm not a Jack fan but when she slapped him I was ready to take her out back and make her beg for mercy. You're totally right! Where does she get off putting those restrictions on Jack? She acts like he's the father, she's the mother and he abandoned them both. Too bad Jack was so wasted ... I'd like to have seen him respond properly. My question is why are the writers having her do this? They have to know that her claims are unfounded and will tick a lot of fans off.


jd -

I was trying to make this point on the Couch and someone said that Kate has had Aaron for three years now and she is the only mother he has ever known, so for all intents and purposes she is Aaron's mother, so it's alright for her to say he is "her son." I understand what the poster meant, however, it still makes me cringe whenever she says it. It's one thing for Aaron to think that Kate is his mother, but to me it's completely another to have Kate acting (& now it seems like she's BELIEVING) she actually did go through 9 months of pregnancy, labor and delivery and Aaron is HERS!! She has been forced into this, so does that make it alright? Like I said, it's all circumstance when it comes to her and I don't like it much. What are your thoughts on that argument?

Doc

jd -

I was trying to make this point on the Couch and someone said that Kate has had Aaron for three years now and she is the only mother he has ever known, so for all intents and purposes she is Aaron's mother, so it's alright for her to say he is "her son." I understand what the poster meant, however, it still makes me cringe whenever she says it. It's one thing for Aaron to think that Kate is his mother, but to me it's completely another to have Kate acting (& now it seems like she's BELIEVING) she actually did go through 9 months of pregnancy, labor and delivery and Aaron is HERS!! She has been forced into this, so does that make it alright? Like I said, it's all circumstance when it comes to her and I don't like it much. What are your thoughts on that argument?

DocI completely agree with you. She may have been forced into it but she has, it appears, taken it completely to heart. If I had any doubts, they all went away when she slapped Jack. That was not the slap of a scorned woman but of a scorned mother and her child. She really does, I strongly believe, feel that Aaron is hers ... that she's entitled, if you will, to act as if she is his one and only mother. I thought it very interesting that her dream of Claire was having her tell Kate not to go back to the island. I trust Charlie's telling Hurley to go back. I trust Locke telling Jack they should not ever leave. I think that Kate's dream was her subconscious telling her it was OK to keep Aaron and not return to the island. She has everything she's dreamed of now ... even if she doesn't have Jack; she still has his love and she knows that. If she goes back, Aaron may revert back to being Claire's child (we don't know for sure Claire is dead) and Kate will lose everything that she has gained. This is just another reason why I don't understand why some keep saying she's changed. She hasn't changed, only her circumstances have changed.

I really do not see how Kate was "forced" into accepting Aaron. What was the purpose of that lie? Why couldn't the O6 simply state that Claire was one of the two that died, following the crash? Then Aaron could have been handed over either a relation in Australia or eventually, Claire's mom.

Kate also claimed that although she thought that Jack was crazy, she went along with his lie. Hence, she was "forced" to accept Aaron. And she blames him for this. WTF?? She is a grown woman with the abilities to make decisions. If she had such a low opinion of Jack's lie regarding their rescue, she should have said so and refused to participate in the lie. And quite frankly, the others should have also done this.

What was the point of the lie? They don't know where the island is. It moved. Neither Widmore or Ben know. This sounds like a contrived reason for Kate to gain custody of Aaron . . . like her trial.

So, my opinion of her has not changed.

I completely agree with you. She may have been forced into it but she has, it appears, taken it completely to heart. If I had any doubts, they all went away when she slapped Jack. That was not the slap of a scorned woman but of a scorned mother and her child. She really does, I strongly believe, feel that Aaron is hers ... that she's entitled, if you will, to act as if she is his one and only mother. I thought it very interesting that her dream of Claire was having her tell Kate not to go back to the island. I trust Charlie's telling Hurley to go back. I trust Locke telling Jack they should not ever leave. I think that Kate's dream was her subconscious telling her it was OK to keep Aaron and not return to the island. She has everything she's dreamed of now ... even if she doesn't have Jack; she still has his love and she knows that. If she goes back, Aaron may revert back to being Claire's child (we don't know for sure Claire is dead) and Kate will lose everything that she has gained. This is just another reason why I don't understand why some keep saying she's changed. She hasn't changed, only her circumstances have changed.

It might be different if there were ANY mention of Claire at all, but there hasn't been that I know of. I still don't see why she can't tell Aaron about his real mother, who she was, and how much she loved him, and say "maybe you will see her again one day." I mean, he will still be taken care of, still feel very loved, but he will also NOT be involved in their lie, which I think is creepy to do to a little baby to begin with.

I get that she has taken care of him for three years, but she is going a bit too far with the whole thing.....like obsessive. That they involved a baby in their weird little lie pissses me off, and the fact that she really does think AARON IS ALL HERS...........and that slap, don't even get me started. (I really wish he would have jacked her upside the jaw). Granted, Jack isn't exactly in a great frame of mind to be an uncle right now, but for her to tell Jack to not even say his name?....or what, she'll bust him in the face again??? I think she's gone out of control with the whole thing.

That is exactly why I didn't mind Jack telling her she wasn't even related to Aaron, in SNBH. Quite a few people thought that was very low of him, but I got it. She did come off a touch self righteous just then, telling him not to behave like that around 'her son.'

OTOH (and I'm not baiting, really!) it is natural for a woman to start loving a child as her own if she's acting like his mother, isn't it? Wouldn't it be rather harder for her to keep reminding herself she isn't his mother, yet provide him with the same care and unconditional love a mother should? It seems a case of 'all or nothing' if you will: either she should keep him at arm's length, care for him but not become too emotionally invested. Or, she give him all the love and attention Claire would've done and in doing so, become extremely attached to him. It is a difficult situation.

Additionally, I wasn't too surprised that Kate went along with the lie. Her feelings for Jack would have played a part in that. Secondly, she is used to lying and deceit and manipulation, isn't she? She gets her way like that, a lot. If you noticed, her chief objection to Jack's suggestion that they lie wasn't that it was morally wrong. It was that they couldn't 'pull it off.' I think out of all the O6, Kate would have had an easier time lying, because she's done it so often.

That is exactly why I didn't mind Jack telling her she wasn't even related to Aaron, in SNBH. Quite a few people thought that was very low of him, but I got it. She did come off a touch self righteous just then, telling him not to behave like that around 'her son.'

OTOH (and I'm not baiting, really!) it is natural for a woman to start loving a child as her own if she's acting like his mother, isn't it? Wouldn't it be rather harder for her to keep reminding herself she isn't his mother, yet provide him with the same care and unconditional love a mother should? It seems a case of 'all or nothing' if you will: either she should keep him at arm's length, care for him but not become too emotionally invested. Or, she give him all the love and attention Claire would've done and in doing so, become extremely attached to him. It is a difficult situation.

Additionally, I wasn't too surprised that Kate went along with the lie. Her feelings for Jack would have played a part in that. Secondly, she is used to lying and deceit and manipulation, isn't she? She gets her way like that, a lot. If you noticed, her chief objection to Jack's suggestion that they lie wasn't that it was morally wrong. It was that they couldn't 'pull it off.' I think out of all the O6, Kate would have had an easier time lying, because she's done it so often.


Again, another great post! With Kate sometimes, it's all or nothing - and that is how she comes off with Aaron. What got me was when she slapped Jack and said "don't you say his name!" Jack has more of a right than anyone to say his name, and have him and raise him too. Way more than Kate. But they will soon be together and all will be right with the world!! :biggrin:

It was LOW of Jack to tell (or should I say remind) Kate that she's not even related to Aaron?? Hardly! In fact, I think she needed to be reminded. Yes, I know she's been taking care of Aaron since they left the island, and she is his only "mother" right now. But she also knows it's all a big lie and I think the reason she got so upset when Jack said that to her is because she doesn't WANT to be reminded of that fact. She doesn't want to remember any of it. She wants to move on with her life and pretend like none of it happened. So when he said that to her, I think it reminded her of all the things she is trying so hard to put behind her.

However, I'm glad that we were shown her reality cracking a bit. I mean, let's not put it all on Jack (jeez, he gets that enough). They all need to be reminded of what they left behind, and what they all need to go back for. I'm glad that it's not only Jack who is being haunted by it. I also think that Kate has known deep down, from the time Jack started calling her about it, that he isn't crazy and that he has been right in what he's been saying. Especially now that we know that she has also been visited by Jeremy Bentham.


What I look forward to the most is all of them finally facing everything laid in front of them, and beating it, however that is to be done. I think Kate will probably be the hardest one to convince, but given the phone calls and the dreams and the fact that she wants THAT life that she had, that made her so incredibly happy - she will be right there along side Jack when they go back. And Aaron will eventually be reunited with Claire where he is really supposed to be.

It was LOW of Jack to tell (or should I say remind) Kate that she's not even related to Aaron?? Hardly! In fact, I think she needed to be reminded. Yes, I know she's been taking care of Aaron since they left the island, and she is his only "mother" right now. But she also knows it's all a big lie and I think the reason she got so upset when Jack said that to her is because she doesn't WANT to be reminded of that fact. She doesn't want to remember any of it. She wants to move on with her life and pretend like none of it happened. So when he said that to her, I think it reminded her of all the things she is trying so hard to put behind her.

However, I'm glad that we were shown her reality cracking a bit. I mean, let's not put it all on Jack (jeez, he gets that enough). They all need to be reminded of what they left behind, and what they all need to go back for. I'm glad that it's not only Jack who is being haunted by it. I also think that Kate has known deep down, from the time Jack started calling her about it, that he isn't crazy and that he has been right in what he's been saying. Especially now that we know that she has also been visited by Jeremy Bentham.


What I look forward to the most is all of them finally facing everything laid in front of them, and beating it, however that is to be done. I think Kate will probably be the hardest one to convince, but given the phone calls and the dreams and the fact that she wants THAT life that she had, that made her so incredibly happy - she will be right there along side Jack when they go back. And Aaron will eventually be reunited with Claire where he is really supposed to be.You just made me think. We don't know how Locke died. Do you think it's possible that Kate killed him? She has the most to lose if they go back, from the way she is living the lie to the fullest. I wouldn't put it past her. And she just seems to have no remorse or concern at all for Claire. As far as Kate (and everyone) knows, Claire is still on the island and without Aaron. Kate HAS to know how devastated Claire would be without him!

You just made me think. We don't know how Locke died. Do you think it's possible that Kate killed him? She has the most to lose if they go back, from the way she is living the lie to the fullest. I wouldn't put it past her. And she just seems to have no remorse or concern at all for Claire. As far as Kate (and everyone) knows, Claire is still on the island and without Aaron. Kate HAS to know how devastated Claire would be without him!

And now you made me think.:confused:

Kate doesn't seem to be at all concerned for Claire, especially knowing now that they are alive as I'm sure seeing Locke made all that apparent to her. And if not, I'm sure Locke told her that Claire and Sawyer were both alive. And she still doesn't seem to care. She absolutely refuses to do anything about it, or even TRY to. She simply smacks Jack across the face, calls him crazy, hops back into her nice car and drives back to her nice home to live out her nice little lie.......ooops, I mean life. And given that Kate is no stranger to doing what she has to in order to take care of herself, killing Locke is no stretch at all. And that could be why she was so adamant towards Jack. It could be that she knows a bit more than we even know yet.

She's already lost Jack (for the moment) and the "heaven on earth" life they made together. So I'm sure the thought of losing Aaron and having it all come crashing down on her isn't something she is willing to face at all. And it's possible that she would do "anything" to prevent the last bit of her "reality" from biting her in the ***!

You just made me think. We don't know how Locke died. Do you think it's possible that Kate killed him? She has the most to lose if they go back, from the way she is living the lie to the fullest. I wouldn't put it past her. And she just seems to have no remorse or concern at all for Claire. As far as Kate (and everyone) knows, Claire is still on the island and without Aaron. Kate HAS to know how devastated Claire would be without him!

I don't think she'd have any reason to kill Locke. He was no threat to her utopia. Jack is the biggest threat to come in and shatter Kate's world to bits and she no doubt knows that. Who knows, maybe her getting him to move in with her and agreeing to marry him was Kate's means to an end. We've seen over and over how willing she is to use anyone to get what she wants or needs and keeping Jack happy would ensure that he would keep lying and not ever consider rocking the boat. Now that he's determined to go back he is a pretty big threat to the life Kate has made for herself. Kate has seen what he's like once he's fixated on something and has to know that his "we have to go back" was in no way a request, but a fact of life in his mind and something he will move heaven and earth to accomplish. I don't know if Kate could ever physically harm Jack though. She seems to love him as much as she's capable of that kind of love, but she also loved Tom and Kevin so..........

There is only one reason why I could pin Kate for killing Locke . . . if she feared that he might take Aaron away from her and back to the island. And considering her view that he is crazy . . .

But something else has puzzled me. Why did Kate tell Naomi that everyone hated Locke? How did she come to that conclusion? Everyone was shocked that he had killed Naomi . . . yes. But hated him? Was she projecting Jack's feelings about Locke on to her and the other Losties?

There is only one reason why I could pin Kate for killing Locke . . . if she feared that he might take Aaron away from her and back to the island. And considering her view that he is crazy . . .

But something else has puzzled me. Why did Kate tell Naomi that everyone hated Locke? How did she come to that conclusion? Everyone was shocked that he had killed Naomi . . . yes. But hated him? Was she projecting Jack's feelings about Locke on to her and the other Losties?

When did Kate tell Naomi that everyone hated Locke?

And now you made me think.:confused:

Kate doesn't seem to be at all concerned for Claire, especially knowing now that they are alive as I'm sure seeing Locke made all that apparent to her. And if not, I'm sure Locke told her that Claire and Sawyer were both alive. And she still doesn't seem to care. She absolutely refuses to do anything about it, or even TRY to. She simply smacks Jack across the face, calls him crazy, hops back into her nice car and drives back to her nice home to live out her nice little lie.......ooops, I mean life. And given that Kate is no stranger to doing what she has to in order to take care of herself, killing Locke is no stretch at all. And that could be why she was so adamant towards Jack. It could be that she knows a bit more than we even know yet.

She's already lost Jack (for the moment) and the "heaven on earth" life they made together. So I'm sure the thought of losing Aaron and having it all come crashing down on her isn't something she is willing to face at all. And it's possible that she would do "anything" to prevent the last bit of her "reality" from biting her in the ***!Yep, we know that the obit said he hanged himself but a hanging is easy to fake ... I mean and make it look like suicide. The full obit mentioned that the manager (or doorman, I forget) said he heard noises in the apt. Perhaps it was the noise of making the death look like suicide. If he was found hanging from a beam, how hard would it be to string him up and make it look like he hanged himself? Sure, Locke's heavy and dead he's even heavier but we've seen Kate do some pretty amazing strength stuff and a person's adrenalin can make them even stronger! While I've thought that Ben could also be the one that killed Locke, and he's stronger to hoist him up, I really feel that Locke didn't kill himself as the police believe. I think he was murdered!

I don't think she'd have any reason to kill Locke. He was no threat to her utopia. Jack is the biggest threat to come in and shatter Kate's world to bits and she no doubt knows that. Who knows, maybe her getting him to move in with her and agreeing to marry him was Kate's means to an end. We've seen over and over how willing she is to use anyone to get what she wants or needs and keeping Jack happy would ensure that he would keep lying and not ever consider rocking the boat. Now that he's determined to go back he is a pretty big threat to the life Kate has made for herself. Kate has seen what he's like once he's fixated on something and has to know that his "we have to go back" was in no way a request, but a fact of life in his mind and something he will move heaven and earth to accomplish. I don't know if Kate could ever physically harm Jack though. She seems to love him as much as she's capable of that kind of love, but she also loved Tom and Kevin so..........Of course Kate has reason to kill Locke if he threatened to expose her lie. Remember, he was on the plane too and can prove it by the manifest. Remember Sun telling Widmore that he knew there were others that knew the truth? Locke revealing who he was would blow the whole lid off the keg of dynamite and take Kate down with him! He was obviously desperate to leave the island so it's not too far fetched that he was desperate enough to reveal the lie.

When did Kate tell Naomi that everyone hated Locke?


Whoops! My mistake. She never said that.



Sure, Locke's heavy and dead he's even heavier but we've seen Kate do some pretty amazing strength stuff and a person's adrenalin can make them even stronger! While I've thought that Ben could also be the one that killed Locke, and he's stronger to hoist him up, I really feel that Locke didn't kill himself as the police believe.


Kate could have hired someone to kill Locke and make it look like a suicide. She had the money to do so.

I'm fairly certain Locke was murdered but I really don't think Kate killed him. If I were a betting woman, my money would be on Ben as the doer.

do we even know that locke is dead? do we even know if claire is alive?

on other threads there have been theories that locke was not dead, that he did not commit suicide or that he was murdered. at the end of season 3 we thought michael was in the coffin! locke's there and we think he's dead. so, at the beginning of season 5 we will know just how it happened and if he's dead.

as far as claire is concerned, whether locke told kate that she is alive or dead, wouldn't you think that kate is clearly attached to aaron. she's been with him for 2-3 years. she's cared for him like he was her own. when she left the island, claire had "walked into the woods and disappeared". no mother just "walks into the woods and disappears" leaving her 4 month old baby propped on a tree. so, wouldn't kate think that something horrible happened to claire, so now aaron is hers? how many stories have we heard about people who adopt and then the mother wants the baby back. they go through years and years of fighting and then the baby is surrendered to the biological mother. the adoptive parents are crushed. i would think that kate would want to keep aaron for herself because she LOVES him.

and, how do we know that kate has talked to locke? we are speculating and now calling kate a murderer? wow! let's get the posse, the ropes and fire and let's have us a witch hunt! burn her at the stake.:mad:

do we even know that locke is dead? do we even know if claire is alive?

on other threads there have been theories that locke was not dead, that he did not commit suicide or that he was murdered. at the end of season 3 we thought michael was in the coffin! locke's there and we think he's dead. so, at the beginning of season 5 we will know just how it happened and if he's dead.

as far as claire is concerned, whether locke told kate that she is alive or dead, wouldn't you think that kate is clearly attached to aaron. she's been with him for 2-3 years. she's cared for him like he was her own. when she left the island, claire had "walked into the woods and disappeared". no mother just "walks into the woods and disappears" leaving her 4 month old baby propped on a tree. so, wouldn't kate think that something horrible happened to claire, so now aaron is hers? how many stories have we heard about people who adopt and then the mother wants the baby back. they go through years and years of fighting and then the baby is surrendered to the biological mother. the adoptive parents are crushed. i would think that kate would want to keep aaron for herself because she LOVES him.

and, how do we know that kate has talked to locke? we are speculating and now calling kate a murderer? wow! let's get the posse, the ropes and fire and let's have us a witch hunt! burn her at the stake.:mad:

Locke looked pretty dead to me and it was made clear TWICE in the finale that Kate had been in contact with Locke. I'm not into witch hunts or burning people at the stake, but I'd settle for the flighty little fugitive showing us that she feels remorseful for the things she has done. I've not seen that yet, her pouty little face during the trial believing that she didn't belong in jail and her attitude toward her mother made me sick. Kate lives life for Kate and it doesn't matter who or what gets trampled along the way as long as Kate is getting what Kate wants.

I really don't care if Kate wants to keep Aaron for herself, he is not her son and perhaps if she loses him she will finally get a clue and understand just how much it hurts to have something you love taken away from you by someone else. Perhaps she'll finally understand how her mother felt when her daughter blew up her husband or how Tom's wife felt when she found out her husband was killed playing one of Kate's dangerous games.

i do agree that kate is the only one out of the 6 who seems pretty settled into her surroundings and her life. maybe it's suppose to be that way, i don't know. she's happy, all dressed up and playing house while hugo, jack and sun are in dispair and sayid is friggin killing people.

i thought that right from the start that it was strange. but i still stick with the fact that it is natural for anyone who spends time with a child for that length of time to be attached to them. it would be unnatural for her to just give aaron up and wave bye bye.

also, i can't think where it was that kate "took" aaron away from claire. sawyer was the one who found aaron. why didn't he keep him. kate and sawyer know about equal into how to take care of an infant.

I think Kate is better at living a lie than the others and that is why she appears to be settled and happy, but who knows what's really going on in her head.

As for Aaron, nobody has suggested that she doesn't love the child or that she stole him have they? They might have I really don't read all the posts that closely. Personally, I hate the whole silly contrived storyline. That this hardcore criminal whose natural instinct is to kill anything that gets in her way has suddenly been reformed into mother of the year is ridiculous and I hate that Kate has Aaron instead of his mother. I want to smack her every time she calls him "my son". It's really nothing personal against the character, I just hate the idea that that child's sweet, innocent mother loses her son and this woman who deserves to be rotting in jail is instead living the good life and getting to rasie Claire's son, but that's LOST where the bad people continue to flourish while the good people fall deeper and deeper into misery and despair.

I'm fairly certain Locke was murdered but I really don't think Kate killed him. If I were a betting woman, my money would be on Ben as the doer.



Why? Ben no longer had a reason to kill Locke. Or did he? On the other hand, Kate, Widmore and possibly someone else had reasons.



as far as claire is concerned, whether locke told kate that she is alive or dead, wouldn't you think that kate is clearly attached to aaron. she's been with him for 2-3 years. she's cared for him like he was her own. when she left the island, claire had "walked into the woods and disappeared". no mother just "walks into the woods and disappears" leaving her 4 month old baby propped on a tree. so, wouldn't kate think that something horrible happened to claire, so now aaron is hers? how many stories have we heard about people who adopt and then the mother wants the baby back. they go through years and years of fighting and then the baby is surrendered to the biological mother. the adoptive parents are crushed. i would think that kate would want to keep aaron for herself because she LOVES him.




No one knows why Claire had disappeared like that. We probably won't know until Season 6. I don't care how much Kate loves Aaron. She had no business declaring him as her son. She and the other members of the Oceanic Six should have told the authorities that Aaron was Claire's child. Then Claire's mother or another member of the Littleton family could have taken custody of Aaron, instead of him being used as part of a lie set up by Jack, Kate and the other O6 members.

Why? Ben no longer had a reason to kill Locke. Or did he? On the other hand, Kate, Widmore and possibly someone else had reasons.


Because Ben is most likely behind everything that happens and right now Ben needs Jack and his friends to return to the island and what better way to convince Jack that Kate and Aaron really are in danger than to have Locke turn up dead?


She or the other members of the Oceanic Six should have told the authorities that Aaron was Claire's child.


But, but, but then we would've been denied "the bestest soccer mom ever" storyline. :rolleyes:

[quote=flyer61055;1989226]
I really don't care if Kate wants to keep Aaron for herself, he is not her son and perhaps if she loses him she will finally get a clue and understand just how much it hurts to have something you love taken away from you by someone else.

this is where i got the idea that kate stole the baby from claire. i know that it is not worded perfectly as that, but "get a clue and understand just how much it hurts to have something you love taken away from you by some else" stands to mean just about the same. whether it is about her mother or the baby it still is about the baby.

also, if my mom was being physically abused by my stepfather and then i find out it is my natural father, i would be angry as well. i, myself, would not commit murder, but A LOT of people do it. to me, what is pathetic is kate's mother disowning her for it. the man repeatedly abused her and she wants him. yuk. again, i do not condone murder. she is a murderer.

also, if my mom was being physically abused by my stepfather and then i find out it is my natural father, i would be angry as well. i, myself, would not commit murder, but A LOT of people do it. to me, what is pathetic is kate's mother disowning her for it. the man repeatedly abused her and she wants him. yuk. again, i do not condone murder. she is a murderer.


You think that's disgusting? How about murdering a man because you hate the idea that he's your father? Kate didn't kill Wayne because of his abuse of Diane. She made it clear in "What Kate Did" that she killed Wayne, because she couldn't stand the idea of them sharing the same blood. Her reasons for killing Wayne made me more disgusted with her than most of the other characters on the show.

Diane's attitude toward Wayne is typical of a victim of abuse. I saw the same in Kate's attitude toward Jack whenever he was emotionally abusive toward her or Sawyer's attitude whenever he allowed Kate to use him, despite her constantly putting him down.



Because Ben is most likely behind everything that happens and right now Ben needs Jack and his friends to return to the island and what better way to convince Jack that Kate and Aaron really are in danger than to have Locke turn up dead?



Okay, granted Ben might be behind everything that happens. What if he isn't? What if you're wrong? That doesn't mean that it is totally unlikely that Kate might behind Locke's death. All you're telling that either Ben or Kate have the potential to be responsible. Or someone else.

Okay, granted Ben might be behind everything that happens. What if he isn't? What if you're wrong? That doesn't mean that it is totally unlikely that Kate might behind Locke's death. All you're telling that either Ben or Kate have the potential to be responsible. Or someone else.

What if I'm wrong? I don't believe I ever stated that I was right, it was just an opinion. I really can't get behind Kate having anything to do with Locke's death and like I said, Jack is a bigger threat as far as taking Aaron away goes IMO so if she's going to resort to killing to keep Aaron then Jack would be the more likely target.

Whoops! My mistake. She never said that.

Kate could have hired someone to kill Locke and make it look like a suicide. She had the money to do so.Oooh! That is right! I like that idea! :kiss:

I'm fairly certain Locke was murdered but I really don't think Kate killed him. If I were a betting woman, my money would be on Ben as the doer.
Have to admit my money is kind of split ... but since I can't put it past her, I'm still half on black and half on red. ;)
do we even know that locke is dead? do we even know if claire is alive?

on other threads there have been theories that locke was not dead, that he did not commit suicide or that he was murdered. at the end of season 3 we thought michael was in the coffin! locke's there and we think he's dead. so, at the beginning of season 5 we will know just how it happened and if he's dead.

as far as claire is concerned, whether locke told kate that she is alive or dead, wouldn't you think that kate is clearly attached to aaron. she's been with him for 2-3 years. she's cared for him like he was her own. when she left the island, claire had "walked into the woods and disappeared". no mother just "walks into the woods and disappears" leaving her 4 month old baby propped on a tree. so, wouldn't kate think that something horrible happened to claire, so now aaron is hers? how many stories have we heard about people who adopt and then the mother wants the baby back. they go through years and years of fighting and then the baby is surrendered to the biological mother. the adoptive parents are crushed. i would think that kate would want to keep aaron for herself because she LOVES him.

and, how do we know that kate has talked to locke? we are speculating and now calling kate a murderer? wow! let's get the posse, the ropes and fire and let's have us a witch hunt! burn her at the stake.:mad:Yes, we know Locke is dead. One does not appear in a coffin, get an obit and have a funeral if one is not dead. That would really be a cheap shot for TPTB to do all that and then, "WhooHoo! I wasn't really dead after all!" That idea would go over like a lead balloon.

As for Kate being attached to Aaron ... that's nice but it does not give her the right to make him her own to the point of slapping Jack and telling him never to speak Aaron's name! That goes way beyond normal attachment. They showed us this stuff so that we understand that her attachment is beyond the norm and over-stepped its boundaries.

And we'll string her up if we feel like it because this is the ... "I"m just not that into you" thread. :biggrin:

Locke looked pretty dead to me and it was made clear TWICE in the finale that Kate had been in contact with Locke. I'm not into witch hunts or burning people at the stake, but I'd settle for the flighty little fugitive showing us that she feels remorseful for the things she has done. I've not seen that yet, her pouty little face during the trial believing that she didn't belong in jail and her attitude toward her mother made me sick. Kate lives life for Kate and it doesn't matter who or what gets trampled along the way as long as Kate is getting what Kate wants.

I really don't care if Kate wants to keep Aaron for herself, he is not her son and perhaps if she loses him she will finally get a clue and understand just how much it hurts to have something you love taken away from you by someone else. Perhaps she'll finally understand how her mother felt when her daughter blew up her husband or how Tom's wife felt when she found out her husband was killed playing one of Kate's dangerous games.That's the deal! She may want but that doesn't give her the right. She can only assume that something happened to Claire as she has no real idea what happened to her. And even if something happened to her, that doesn't mean she's dead. Kate just pulls whatever strings she needs to pull to get her way. And this time, so far, it's worked.:mad:

I think Kate is better at living a lie than the others and that is why she appears to be settled and happy, but who knows what's really going on in her head.

As for Aaron, nobody has suggested that she doesn't love the child or that she stole him have they? They might have I really don't read all the posts that closely. Personally, I hate the whole silly contrived storyline. That this hardcore criminal whose natural instinct is to kill anything that gets in her way has suddenly been reformed into mother of the year is ridiculous and I hate that Kate has Aaron instead of his mother. I want to smack her every time she calls him "my son". It's really nothing personal against the character, I just hate the idea that that child's sweet, innocent mother loses her son and this woman who deserves to be rotting in jail is instead living the good life and getting to rasie Claire's son, but that's LOST where the bad people continue to flourish while the good people fall deeper and deeper into misery and despair.And the last thing we saw of Kate and the baby before she got him from Sawyer was her not even wanting to hold him and now she's this great, picture-perfect mom? She may have developed feelings for him but are they genuine or based on her lie? I feel they're based on the lie.

Why? Ben no longer had a reason to kill Locke. Or did he? On the other hand, Kate, Widmore and possibly someone else had reasons.

No one knows why Claire had disappeared like that. We probably won't know until Season 6. I don't care how much Kate loves Aaron. She had no business declaring him as her son. She and the other members of the Oceanic Six should have told the authorities that Aaron was Claire's child. Then Claire's mother or another member of the Littleton family could have taken custody of Aaron, instead of him being used as part of a lie set up by Jack, Kate and the other O6 members.Well, Ben could have reason to kill Locke if Locke's being dead would allow Ben to go back to the island ... ;)

See now that's what I don't get and hope we get an explanation for. Why didn't they just say that one of the 8 was Claire? Why not let the world know that Aaron is Claire's baby?



Then he could be with his grandmother
Jack could know his step-grandmother and she him
and all three could be Aaron's real (which they are) family.

You think that's disgusting? How about murdering a man because you hate the idea that he's your father? Kate didn't kill Wayne because of his abuse of Diane. She made it clear in "What Kate Did" that she killed Wayne, because she couldn't stand the idea of them sharing the same blood. Her reasons for killing Wayne made me more disgusted with her than most of the other characters on the show.

Diane's attitude toward Wayne is typical of a victim of abuse. I saw the same in Kate's attitude toward Jack whenever he was emotionally abusive toward her or Sawyer's attitude whenever he allowed Kate to use him, despite her constantly putting him down.

Okay, granted Ben might be behind everything that happens. What if he isn't? What if you're wrong? That doesn't mean that it is totally unlikely that Kate might behind Locke's death. All you're telling that either Ben or Kate have the potential to be responsible. Or someone else.I think you need to keep in mind that this is not a theories thread but an "I'm Just Not That Into You" thread. So, in here one will find a ton of things that point angry fingers, make accusations and assumptions and point out direct things that support our "not being that into Kate." We don't have to have facts, like in a theories thread. We're venting and with that may come some off the wall ideas based on our dislike of the character.

I think you need to keep in mind that this is not a theories thread but an "I'm Just Not That Into You" thread. So, in here one will find a ton of things that point angry fingers, make accusations and assumptions and point out direct things that support our "not being that into Kate." We don't have to have facts, like in a theories thread. We're venting and with that may come some off the wall ideas based on our dislike of the character.


One, I was not being angry. Two, I had merely responded with my opinion on what was earlier posted on this thread. So, I think that the above comment was a little uncalled for.

One, I was not being angry. Two, I had merely responded with my opinion on what was earlier posted on this thread. So, I think that the above comment was a little uncalled for.First, I wasn't saying you were being angry but that one would find (possibly) angry posts because we in here don't like Kate. But I was refering to your comment here: "Okay, granted Ben might be behind everything that happens. What if he isn't? What if you're wrong? That doesn't mean that it is totally unlikely that Kate might behind Locke's death. All you're telling that either Ben or Kate have the potential to be responsible. Or someone else." I think my post does warrant since we're not in an actual theory thread ... so we may come up with stuff that may not be considered *proof* by some. Next time I'll delete the part I wasn't responding to. Sorry if I confused and definitely didn't mean to offend anyone.

But I was refering to your comment here: "Okay, granted Ben might be behind everything that happens. What if he isn't? What if you're wrong? That doesn't mean that it is totally unlikely that Kate might behind Locke's death. All you're telling that either Ben or Kate have the potential to be responsible. Or someone else." I think my post does warrant since we're not in an actual theory thread ... so we may come up with stuff that may not be considered *proof* by some. Next time I'll delete the part I wasn't responding to. Sorry if I confused and definitely didn't mean to offend anyone.


That was a response to something that was posted . . . on this thread. I don't think I should have been lectured about whether my comment was a theory or not. I still think the comment was a bit uncalled for.

Maxaholic: Yes, you are in the wrong section. *points to header* This section is for those who want to talk about why they don't like Kate. If you want to post positive things about the character or debate, that needs to be in the general or It's all good sections.

For everyone else: Please report and ignore, rather than continuing the discussion -- that just makes a bigger mess for us to clean up. Thanks.

So continuing the KateHate™, I'm awaiting the arrival of my S3 DVD (Yes, I haven't bought it before now - bad Lost fan!!) and I can't wait to re-watch it. I remember it was the first season where my simple indifference to Kate became to increase into dislike. I'm not looking forward to the opening arc. Many, many bad Kate memories. However, keeping an open mind, I'm wondering if my opinions will mellow over time...

Why did Kate agree to accept Jack's lie that she was Aaron's mother?

So continuing the KateHate™, I'm awaiting the arrival of my S3 DVD (Yes, I haven't bought it before now - bad Lost fan!!) and I can't wait to re-watch it. I remember it was the first season where my simple indifference to Kate became to increase into dislike. I'm not looking forward to the opening arc. Many, many bad Kate memories. However, keeping an open mind, I'm wondering if my opinions will mellow over time...I hope, for you, it will be easier second-time-around but that didn't work for me. :frown: S03 really sealed the lid for me on how I just don't respect the character any more.

I hope, for you, it will be easier second-time-around but that didn't work for me. :frown: S03 really sealed the lid for me on how I just don't respect the character any more.

My respect for Kate started sliding with "Whatever the Case May Be". I know that I keep saying this, but the stupidity of that bank robbery still astounds me.

My respect for Kate started sliding with "Whatever the Case May Be". I know that I keep saying this, but the stupidity of that bank robbery still astounds me.WOW! You gave up on her really early on. LOL But I must agree ... it was a pretty drastic and foolish thing IMO. But I always wondered why those guys went along with her. Did they think they were going for money to then find out it was just the toy plane? :confused:

WOW! You gave up on her really early on. LOL But I must agree ... it was a pretty drastic and foolish thing IMO. But I always wondered why those guys went along with her. Did they think they were going for money to then find out it was just the toy plane? :confused:


I think that if they had known she was after that toy plane, they would have shot her and tried to rob the bank on their own.

I think that if they had known she was after that toy plane, they would have shot her and tried to rob the bank on their own.:biglaugh: And ruined the whole story of Lost! (or at least the love triangle ;) )