Hey guys, loved the emotionally packed, emotionally draining (haha) episode, but here's something I caught on my second viewing.

When Ben returns about 18 minutes through the episode (without commercial breaks), Richard clearly, to me at least, says...

Richard: What happened out there- did John see...
Ben: John had an accident.

I think it might be implying that even Richard was awaiting to see if Locke could in fact SEE Jacob. I think Richard knows about what's going on with Jacob.

Ben acted like he was excited but was going to kill Locke because he'd be the true one,

while

Richard sincerely wanted Locke to see Jacob because that means their chosen one has arrived.

I didnt catch that, ill have to check it out again. I think the Others, maybe especially Alpert, were interested if he could see Jacob. They seemed interestd that he could walk again. Im sure about Locke being the "Chosen One," but he certainly is "special."

Yeah, absolutely, I caught that the second time through.

You know, as crazy as it sounds, I really want to like Richard. He seems so amiable, and the only really rotten thing I've seen him do is participate in the purge. A big part of me wants to believe that the purge was Ben's idea, or at least the method in which it was carried out. Maybe I just want to lump all the evil on Ben. :smile:

Yep I caught that too. They have a habit of doing that, of starting a sentence but not finishing in (Like Mikhail saying 'the John Locke I knew was para....') Can no one on this island complete a sentence?

Richard is one of the more interesting characters to me.

He has shown twice now, that he does not cower to Ben. He gave Locke Sawyer's file and he let Locke beat the piss out of Mikhail while Ben shouted.

I am going to assume the Richard is native to the island (lots of circumstantial evidence, but this is Lost) and that he either ages really slowly or doesn't age.
While the purge was awful, if his people were harmed by Dharma, if the DI was doing experiments, if the DI caused the fertility problems, then his people may have been justified in doing what they did. Ben was just a sad little boy that didn't like is dad, oh...and he is sociopathic. He doesn't really have an excuse for involving himself in the purge. We do not know enough about Dharma and the Others to say for certain what went down between them.

So, going on the assumption that the above is true, it is entirely possible that the reason that Richard latched onto Ben was because he and his people were awaiting an arrival that would save them. Perhaps Ben was thought to be that person. Especially considering that jacob is some kind of god-like thing to the Others and Ben is the only person that has access to him.

I think that Richard started feeling like Ben wasn't the person that would save them when he got the tumor. I think that that is when Richard started believing that perhaps Locke was the person they were waiting for. That would be why is was questioning Ben is John saw Jacob. If John did, then Richard was right and Ben isn't the chosen one.

There is no evidence to support the above, I know. I do think that there is a definite possiblity that something like this is happening.

He could have just meant did Jon see Jacob in the sense that one "sees" ones doctor or a friend.

I guess what I'm saying is that it might not reveal that Richard knows something about the nature of Jacob, only that he was wondering if Locke actually met Jacob and what came out of that encounter.

Just an idea though. I'm personally a subscriber to the Black Rock/Magnus Hanso theorey, so I'd imagine that Richard does, in fact, know quite a bit aobut the nature of Jacob.

Yeah, absolutely, I caught that the second time through.

You know, as crazy as it sounds, I really want to like Richard. He seems so amiable, and the only really rotten thing I've seen him do is participate in the purge. A big part of me wants to believe that the purge was Ben's idea, or at least the method in which it was carried out. Maybe I just want to lump all the evil on Ben. :smile:

I agree, I can't help but feel that Richard is a good guy. The hostiles were clearly at war with Darma, but we have yet to understand what necessitated it.

Hey guys, loved the emotionally packed, emotionally draining (haha) episode, but here's something I caught on my second viewing.

When Ben returns about 18 minutes through the episode (without commercial breaks), Richard clearly, to me at least, says...

Richard: What happened out there- did John see...
Ben: John had an accident.

I think it might be implying that even Richard was awaiting to see if Locke could in fact SEE Jacob. I think Richard knows about what's going on with Jacob.

Ben acted like he was excited but was going to kill Locke because he'd be the true one,

while

Richard sincerely wanted Locke to see Jacob because that means their chosen one has arrived.
I remember that scene too. I think it's clear that the Others think Locke is special. I also think part of Ben's ability to stay in power is his special relationship with Jacob. That's why Locke was shot. Locke was a threat to Ben's hold on power since he could hear Jacob too.

You know, as crazy as it sounds, I really want to like Richard. He seems so amiable, and the only really rotten thing I've seen him do is participate in the purge. A big part of me wants to believe that the purge was Ben's idea, or at least the method in which it was carried out. Maybe I just want to lump all the evil on Ben. :smile:

I feel you. IMO, someone that pretty can't be evil. :blshing1: Besides, he doesn't feel like he has to do what Ben says and I love that.

I think that Ben cutting off Richard in that scene will play out to be important. It seems like a lot of the others realize that Ben is freaked out and acting rash when he comes back - a far cry from the cold, calculating, evil genius we have all come to know and love/hate.

From Richard's point of view, I think that Ben's behavior upon his return answers his own question.

I too dont think that Ben can be holding onto the leadership of The Others if he didn't some how have a 'link' to Jacob.

On a slightly other note, If Richard is trying to help find out if Locke has more of a connection to the island than Ben...Whats Tom's views on the matter? Was Tom a Native/Hostile?

AND where the hell is Isabel? She seemed to have some higher postion in the ranks of The Others... is she sided with Ben or Locke? And why haven't we seen her in any of the camps?

Well, he didnt answer the question as to wether Locke saw Jacob so they'll probably deduce that he did, and then they'll conclude that Locke's 'accident' was caused by Ben. They like or need Locke for some mythic reason, and Ben just made it clear the Others' and Ben's agendas are very much at odds...

They'll turn on him.

AND where the hell is Isabel? She seemed to have some higher postion in the ranks of The Others... is she sided with Ben or Locke? And why haven't we seen her in any of the camps?


Good question, it looks like Tom and Isabel have taken a backseat in the story.

Good question, it looks like Tom and Isabel have taken a backseat in the story.

I personally believe that Tom may be out of the story but Isabel will be showing up soon (this may mean the season 4, since only one episode is left). Isabel is one of the central figures of the Others (maybe Annie herself, or someone else recruited from DI) and her presence may somehow coincide with Jack, since she was the one who translated the meaning of the tattoo "He walks amongst us, but he is not one of us."

Therefore, I hold on to the belief that Isabel will be one of those that shows the path to unfold the mysteries of the island. And the one that she will speak with will be Jack...

Another point is that, I agree with those who believe (or would like to believe) that Richard is a good guy. He certainly is... He is one of the opponents of Ben, but I doubt he knows what is wrong with Jacob and hence still feels himself bound by Ben's intermediation between themselves and Jacob, perhaps because Ben is the only one that Jacob talks to (or this may be what has been asserted by Ben, so as to avoid others reaching out for Jacob and discovering that all the decisions are being made by the "man behind the curtain" as Ben, but not by Jacob.)

Richard is seeking a new leader (who he believes to be Locke) and this is why he is so enthusiastic about learning how everything went with Jacob. He was the one responsible for Ben's attachment and recruitment to the Hostiles, but after all those years, it seems Ben has gotten out of control and began acting in a psychopathic manner (most probably owing to the death of Annie during childbirth which makes him writhe in agony and be obsessed with the idea of providing a solution for the maternal death problem). Remember how he confesses that he feels uncomfortable about Ben when talking to Locke and giving him Sawyer's (James') file. Now Richard is somehow hopeful that Ben may be "overthrown" by a newcomer ("the expected one" who arouses admiration amongst the Others, displayed by Cindy's words in "The Brig") who is really dedicated to the "island", not to the "solution of a peculiar problem". We recall how Locke stupified Ben by saying "if you knew what this island is all about, you wouldn't be putting that chicken in the fridge."

Ben's sickness also is a clear indication that he is not "the favoured one" anymore. He is becoming "unprotected" more and more each day, paving the way for a "new sheriff" who he is almost sure is Locke after discovering that Locke could hear Jacob; the ability that distinguishes him from the rest of the Others has become somewhat obsolete by Locke's hearing the voice. Locke is rising as an important and more equipped figure for he is the one that the island had already showed its incredible features by means of healing.

Another important thing to stress is about who Jacob is. As a believer in the theory of Parallel Universes and cyclical patterns, I feel that Jack is Jacob. If Locke somehow shows up in this episode to help Jack and save him from some trouble (for instance, gunshot) I will believe that Jacob's message of "Help Me" is a direction provided for Locke to save Jack and help him understand who he in fact is, thereby starting or restoring the cycle that they are in. If Magnus is Jacob, and Jacob is Jack in some fashion (I have to write down the theory to fully explain this) then Jacob's plea will mean a lot.

We'll see...

interesting quantumchaos- you had me until you said that Jack is Jacob.... anything is possible though.

Tom may be taking a backseat, folks, but his views are pretty clear -- he disobeyed Ben to stop Locke from beating Patchy. I think its pretty clear that he's among those that feel Locke is "the chosen one."

interesting quantumchaos- you had me until you said that Jack is Jacob.... anything is possible though.

Yeah, anything is possible... Though the last part may not seem that convincing, I still believe (especially with reference to the series "The Prisoner" ; you may want to check the plot on wikipedia) that someone startling will be revealed as Jacob. That is not merely to state by taking into consideration the name resemblance (Jack = Jacques = Jacob) but a whole new approach involving paralel universes, twist endings, and, as stated elsewhere, Number Six becoming Number 1 (as in "The Prisoner").

Can't wait tonight's episode... Though I'll be watching it about 10 hours late than you due to time discrepancy (what a pity !!!)

I like Molly1977's ideas about the Alpert thinking that Ben was the one.

To add to her comments. I think that maybe they THOUGHT Ben was the ONE since he saw his mom in the jungle when he was young. (THis scene was very intriguing to Alpert) Maybe Ben played the role of "the one" and pretended to see/understand Jacob and know things about the island. Now Ben is threatened because Locke really can hear Jacob, so what does he do? Ben tries to get rid of Locke. I think the natives are finally seeing Ben's deception.

This makes sense in my head..hopefully i made my point.