So, I went back and watched "A Tale of Two Cities" the other night with a friend who is just getting to Season 3.

Nothing particularly revelatory to post, just an observation and sort of compliment. Going back and watching that episode, I was struck by how amazingly well The Season 3 Premier and Finale complimented and meshed with each other. The Jack we see in the Flashforwards really is a continuation of the Jack we started to see in in the Flashbacks in ATOTC.

I didn't get the flashforwards spoiler for me before the Final aired, but it had been so long since I'd seen ATOTC. I recommend you go back and watch it and see what you think. I was really blown away by how well they worked together.

Just another example of how the TV scheduling issues has screwed up a really carefully and creatively crafted narrative.

You know what? I had this crazy idea the other night that perhaps what we have been watching until now on the island is what happened to Jack AFTER he went back to the island...So the flashforward would actually be a flashback. All this would mean that this is the second time Jack has been on the island.
Of course, so far it doesn't make any sense at all. Why wouldn't Kate remember him? Why wouldn't HE remember her?
As far as the rest of the losties, she might have been the only same person who crashed with him again.
The only explanation I have is that the crash may have caused them some kind of amnesic effects...

You know what? I had this crazy idea the other night that perhaps what we have been watching until now on the island is what happened to Jack AFTER he went back to the island...So the flashforward would actually be a flashback. All this would mean that this is the second time Jack has been on the island.
Of course, so far it doesn't make any sense at all. Why wouldn't Kate remember him? Why wouldn't HE remember her?
As far as the rest of the losties, she might have been the only same person who crashed with him again.
The only explanation I have is that the crash may have caused them some kind of amnesic effects...

This is a possible idea, although I don't have answers to the holes either.

However, I didn't mean to imply that I thought that the Flashforwards in TTLG were literally continuations of the Flashbacks in ATOTC. I just meant that the way we see Jack losing it and breaking down in ATOTC really helped set up the way he lost it after he left the island. It really showed his instability. And I think, had ATOTC and TTLG been aired closer together, the level of Jack's despair may not have been as shocking to as many people as it seemed to be--even before we found out that it was in the future.

I agree with you GreatHeights.
I also think that this is the reason why i, while watching TTLG, automatically assumed that we were watching a Flashback where Jack had just returned from his Thailand journey. Only to be very much surprised when it turned out to be a flash forward in the end! And reading the boards, i was not the only one... This was carefully planned by TPTB.

Now that i write this, i realize that we still don't know why Jack went to Thailand, do we?
Maybe something for next season?

I always thought he went to Thailand to get away from the fallout following his turning daddy in to the hospital board.

Good call on the past Jack/future Jack parallels, GreatHeights! :clapping:

BTW, the James in your avi pretty much sums up the feelings of LOST fans everywhere, now that we have to wait till February for new eppys! :D

I always thought he went to Thailand to get away from the fallout following his turning daddy in to the hospital board.

That was also my assumption, but it has never been mentioned in any way in the past flashbacks (as far as i can remember).

But hey, we still have 3 seasons to go, i can't imagine that we have had ALL Jack flashbacks already (and the same holds for some of the other major characters). What do you think?

You know what? I had this crazy idea the other night that perhaps what we have been watching until now on the island is what happened to Jack AFTER he went back to the island...So the flashforward would actually be a flashback. All this would mean that this is the second time Jack has been on the island..

Hey Fierro - yup, I absolutely agree with you! Of course, there are tons of holes in this theory (why have the funeral parlor name as an anagram of “flashforward” for starters, not to mention how Jack and Kate seemed not to know each other when they first met in the pilot). BUT anything’s possible on Lost!

A couple of points which make me think this could be a flashback. First, when he’s visited by Sara in the hospital he’s wearing the same tan suede jacket that he was wearing in the 3.1 flashback when he’s sat in his car stalking her outside the school playground. Now we’re led to believe that the “flashforward” occured many years after this incident - during which time he’d gone AWOL to Thailand for god knows how long, returned to his job in LA, went to Australia, was in a plane crash (allegedly!) and spent three months on the island, had presumably been declared dead when the wreckage of Flight 815 was found elsewhere, and then allegedly spent some years struggling to deal with the fallout from being rescued. So how come that jacket is still around? If he’d been declared dead, wouldn’t all his possessions have been disgarded by the time he’d been rescued? His ex-wife had moved on with her life so it’s unlikely she would’ve kept it as a memento. Same with his mother, with whom he seemed to have a very distant relationship, who bitterly blamed him for her husband’s downfall and who, most likely would also have blamed him for Christian’s subsequent death. So how come that jacket is still around years later, still looking fairly pristine?

Secondly, when Jack goes to throw himself off the bridge he says “forgive me”, presumably to God. But on the island he’s been very un-religious, almost athiestic. It was kind of the reason he gave for refusing to lead or even participate in the memorial service for the crash victims when they burnt the fuselage. And throughout series 1 and 2, much was made of how Jack was very much the Man of Science compared to Locke’s Man of Faith. If Jack was already without faith, going through the hinted-at trauma of the rescue wouldn’t exactly change this - in fact, it would probably give him even more reason to be an athiest. So how come he was asking God’s forgiveness in the future?

I’m probably wrong - but it’s fun to speculate!

First, when he’s visited by Sara in the hospital he’s wearing the same tan suede jacket that he was wearing in the 3.1 flashback when he’s sat in his car stalking her outside the school playground... So how come that jacket is still around years later, still looking fairly pristine?

in fact, it would probably give him even more reason to be an athiest. So how come he was asking God’s forgiveness in the future?

I'm sure the jacket was just used to throw us off. Something familier so that we'd think it was a flashback until the reveal.

And I'd say that it wasn't the trauma of the rescue that made him become a man of faith, but also the trauma of life AFTER the island. He's convinced himself, whether because he's right or because he's lost it, that his trouble are the result of his actions on the island--his actions as a man of science. Those being wrong, he has had an epiphany and believes that he should have listened to Locke all along.

On the other hand, the flashbacks and forwards could very well be just storytelling devices and nothing else. The producers and writers are shifting gears as to the way they are telling the story. Now we have two stories, one in the past and one in the present, and for the rest of the show, we viewers will follow the stories as they come together. And in the course of doing all this, Jack meets Rachel Blake.

Does it bother anyone else that in the pilot, when Jack comes to in the jungle, he makes a beeline in the correct direction throught thick jungle, straight to the beach? This has always bothered me, and now I'm starting to think that this was the 2nd time he had lived this moment.

Does it bother anyone else that in the pilot, when Jack comes to in the jungle, he makes a beeline in the correct direction throught thick jungle, straight to the beach? This has always bothered me, and now I'm starting to think that this was the 2nd time he had lived this moment.
If I remember correctly, it has been discussed a couple of times, always in connection with Jack being somebody else than he let on (i.e. an Other, or that he's been on the island before).
It never struck me as odd, I have to admit. The scene was awfully quiet, but I always guessed that was just a storytelling device so that the viewer wouldn't immediately know what was going on, but that in reality there was a lot of noise around (screams, things catching fire, stuff like that) and that Jack was following those sounds towards the wreckage.
Nevertheless, I kinda like the idea that what we've seen since season 1 is actually Jack being on the island the second time. It would be a huge twist for the final reveal. But there are too many holes in it for me to accept it right now.
The first one is Kate. If Jack is truly on the island for the second time, then his flashforward would actually also be a flashback, so he couldn't know Kate. Then how come he meets her before, or at the very least hallucinates about her? They never give any sign about having met before the crash.
The second hole in that theory is that Jack desperately wants to get off the island. So if it is his second time on the island, and if he finally managed to return there, why would he try to set everything in motion to escape again? That doesn't make sense, so as of right now I can't really believe that it's his second time on the island.

On the other hand, the flashbacks and forwards could very well be just storytelling devices and nothing else. The producers and writers are shifting gears as to the way they are telling the story. Now we have two stories, one in the past and one in the present, and for the rest of the show, we viewers will follow the stories as they come together. And in the course of doing all this, Jack meets Rachel Blake.

TPTB said that while the mythology established in TLE (ie. the background of the island, Hanso Foundation, Dharma, etc.) should be considered canon, they specifically said that Rachel Blake is NOT. I just read this in another thread today, actually. Here's the quote (from Lostpedia):

Carlton Cuse (http://www.lostpedia.com/wiki/Carlton_Cuse): I think that for us, yeah, I mean, all of Alvar Hanso (http://www.lostpedia.com/wiki/Alvar_Hanso) and his relationship with funding the DHARMA Initiative (http://www.lostpedia.com/wiki/DHARMA_Initiative) is part of the mythology. The details of the Hanso Foundation (http://www.lostpedia.com/wiki/Hanso_Foundation)’s demise…it’s tangential to the show but it’s not unrelated to the show. We sort of felt like the Internet Experience was a way for us to get out mythologies that we would never get to I wain the show. I mean, because this is mythology that doesn’t have an effect on the character’s lives or existence on the island. We created it for purposes of understanding the world of the show but it was something that was always going to be sort of below the water, sort of the iceberg metaphor, and the Internet Experience sort of gave us a chance to reveal it.
Damon Lindelof (http://www.lostpedia.com/wiki/Damon_Lindelof): I would say in terms of all the… background that we did, in terms of the Valenzetti equation (http://www.lostpedia.com/wiki/Valenzetti_equation) and explaining the formation of the Hanso Foundation and doing the other films…we’d consider that stuff canon (http://www.lostpedia.com/wiki/Canon) to the show. Where there’d have to be wiggle room is the Rachel Blake (http://www.lostpedia.com/wiki/Rachel_Blake) story where she’s in the real world, in the outside world as we define it, the show Lost might be defined in an entirely different outside world so we can’t vouch for the overall fit ability and veracity of everything that Rachel was doing. But we can say that all the factoids that she was uncovering were vetted, in fact many of them were written by us personally so they are canon (http://www.lostpedia.com/wiki/Canon).

So, I doubt Rachel Blake will ever turn up on the series.

I love the idea that we may be seeing Jack's second visit to the island. I realize there are holes. Especially the whole time loop thing. I hope they can explain it to the satisfaction of the pseudo scientist in me. I also think we've seen more than one of Desmond's trips. I remember lots of discussion about the differences in Desmond's appearance (fresh and clean one moment, unshaven the next) and the props in the hatch (different record players, lamps). Different loops would explain it.

TPTB said that while the mythology established in TLE (ie. the background of the island, Hanso Foundation, Dharma, etc.) should be considered canon, they specifically said that Rachel Blake is NOT. I just read this in another thread today, actually. Here's the quote (from Lostpedia):



So, I doubt Rachel Blake will ever turn up on the series.

Need the reference for the above quote. I tried to find it but... alast... nothing.

P. S. Rachel Blake meets up with Jack <-- this is a totally different theory than "J meets RB." If they became a couple, their 'ship name would be "Jalake" or "Rackke" or "JrB." sounds cool, huh?

Jachel. Has a better ring to it! :D

But hey, we still have 3 seasons to go, i can't imagine that we have had ALL Jack flashbacks already
If Tina Turner ever records a sequel to "We Don't Need Another Hero," it should be titled:

"We Don't Need Another Jackback"!!

And we DON'T. Now, more Jackforwards, THAT we need! Several of 'em! :thumbsup:

Yes, ATOTC and TTLC are good bookmarks, Jack-wise. Jack has always been an obsessive personality. Getting BACK to the Island appears to be his latest obsession. Which gives us a whole new LOST unanswered question: will returning to the Island enable Jack to finally face himself, and overcome his own demons?

Answer? MAYBE at the end of Season 6. Maybe not. It'd be just like Darlton to leave the question open. Pull a life-goes-on ending, a la The Sopranos?

Nah. Surely Darlton doesn't wanna be a COPYCAT, yeah? :10:

Which gives us a whole new LOST unanswered question: will returning to the Island enable Jack to finally face himself, and overcome his own demons?


What about the answer to: WILL Jack succeed in getting back to the island?
Or do you already consider this as trivial?

Does it bother anyone else that in the pilot, when Jack comes to in the jungle, he makes a beeline in the correct direction throught thick jungle, straight to the beach? This has always bothered me, and now I'm starting to think that this was the 2nd time he had lived this moment.

i think that some people just read way to deeply into some things. what makes for better television? jack waking up and getting to the beach, so that the viewers can see what the hell is going on? or have jack, wandering around the jungle for a while wondering where the hell he is?

...
First, when he’s visited by Sara in the hospital he’s wearing the same tan suede jacket that he was wearing in the 3.1 flashback when he’s sat in his car stalking her outside the school playground. Now we’re led to believe that the “flashforward” occured many years after this incident - during which time he’d gone AWOL to Thailand for god knows how long, returned to his job in LA, went to Australia, was in a plane crash (allegedly!) and spent three months on the island, had presumably been declared dead when the wreckage of Flight 815 was found elsewhere, and then allegedly spent some years struggling to deal with the fallout from being rescued. So how come that jacket is still around? If he’d been declared dead, wouldn’t all his possessions have been disgarded by the time he’d been rescued? His ex-wife had moved on with her life so it’s unlikely she would’ve kept it as a memento. Same with his mother, with whom he seemed to have a very distant relationship, who bitterly blamed him for her husband’s downfall and who, most likely would also have blamed him for Christian’s subsequent death. So how come that jacket is still around years later, still looking fairly pristine?
...Maybe he REALLY likes that jacket!

What about the answer to: WILL Jack succeed in getting back to the island?

Aw, c'mon! This is a TV show! The story SCREAMS for him to return. He'll return. It'll probably be in Season 6. But he'll return! ;)

The thing I liked about the last episode was that Jack beat the snot out of Ben, and at that was the very thing that he stopped Sayid and Locke from doing in season two.

As for Jack-Forward or Jack-Back, remember that the first time we saw Jack he awoke in the Jungle, far away from the wreckage. We've all spend many hours debating on this forum about why was Jack not in the wreckage with the other survivors. Maybe it was a similar event to the one where we find Desmond laying naked in the Jungle after he blew the Swan Hatch. We later are shown an episode where Desmond turns the key and then wakes up back in time at Penny's flat. The way they played it, Desmond either imagined the whole thing or he actually went backwards through time.

They've hinted that he infact did.

I'm willing to bet that at some point in the future we see Jack wake up in the jungle again, just moments after the crash of 815.

Aw, c'mon! This is a TV show! The story SCREAMS for him to return. He'll return. It'll probably be in Season 6. But he'll return! ;)

The more i think about it, the more i like this course of action! :)
Can't wait to see how this will play out...

On the other hand, the flashbacks and forwards could very well be just storytelling devices and nothing else. The producers and writers are shifting gears as to the way they are telling the story. Now we have two stories, one in the past and one in the present, and for the rest of the show, we viewers will follow the stories as they come together. And in the course of doing all this, Jack meets Rachel Blake.


Well, they'd better get a real actress to play her, cuz this is prime time, baby! :eek2:

Nifty jacket.

Maybe he REALLY likes that jacket!

Maybe he bought a lookalike because he liked the look. (Like in Elizabeth Peters' Amelia Peabody books--Amelia keeps replacing the red dress that lured her husband Emerson in the first place, but clueless fashion-illiterate Emerson thinks it's the same dress, even 30 years later.)