i've mentionned that in the spoilers theory board, and i will start a thread about that here since it doesn't contain spoilers

Flight 815 was a 2 flight crew plane. Pilot and Copilot

When Jack, Kate and Charlie arrive to the front section of the plane in the jungle, they have to force open the cockpit door
A body fell upon us when they did manage to open that door. It was the copilot (3 stripes on his uniform's shoulders)

The pilot (4 stripes on his uniform) was tightly secured in his seat.
The seatbelts in the cockpit are not regular seatbelts as passengers have inside the fuselage, in the cockpit they are harnesses, which are way more resistant than the regular seatbelts

It is very very unlikely that the copilot's harness gave way during the crash

So there are 2 possibilities :
1st : the copilot was not secured by his harness prior to the crash
2nd : the copilot has opened his harness after the crash

here are the speculations

1st : if the copilot wasn't harnessed in his seat prior to the crash, he would have had a good reason not to wear his seatbelt
- He was manning a device designed to provoke the crash and wasn't able to get to his seat before it was to late
- He was operating an "anesthesia" device to send a gaz through the oxygen masks and make the passengers go to sleep (we have discussed the fact that the survivors might have been put to sleep during the crash)
- He tried to prevent the pilot from voluntarily crashing the plane
- There was a fight in the cockpit, and he was killed 6 hours into the flight and the "radio is down" excuse would no longer fit, since it is highly possible under that speculation that the pilot is one of the "others" and purposedely crashed the plane

2nd : If he was seated and securely fastened in his seat, he may have tried to exit the cockpit, either to flee the crash scene (in that case, he would have made sure that the pilot was dead and helped him out since he had just fainted) or he was trying to check on the passengers
Anyway in this scenario he ends up dead
Since the cockpit door was locked, the only rational explanation would be that the pilot killed him and then faked to have fainted in his seat when Jack, Kate and Charlie arrived


One way or the other i don't buy that the copilot could have ended up pressed against the door
Of course it could be a dramatic effect, like in horror movies when a corpse will invariably fall through a doorway when you open the door
But it has been made clear that everything happens for a reason in Lost

So why was the body of the copilot pressed against that door

I'll add to that, the fact that a 180 pounds overall weight (or so) guy, slapping into the cockpit door when he was ejected from his seat (say his harness gave way) would have broken the frail latch that closes the door. (Jack just hammered it a few times with some kind of fire extinguisher before it broke, and he was in a position that do not permit that much strength to be applied to the latch)
So if he was indeed ejected he should have smashed right through that door, not just gently rest on this door
And there were some dramatic shots (Charlie sliding and grabbing to a dead man's leg etc) to show that the people in the front section were still seated, there wasn't a "pile of bodies" in the lower part of the upward tilted front section. So it is a safe bet that the copilot should still be seated (even if he were dead). And since they lit the "fasten your seatbelts" sign, it leads me to believe that they fastened theirs also

The main question is : was the copilot killed before or after the crash ?
And the underlying question is : what were the pilot's motives ?

We've seen (in fact no we haven't) the pilot be killed by the monster, anyway he could have been sacrificed just like Ethan was in some kind of way

I really do think that the copilot falling upon Jack and Kate in the pilot eppy is a major clue to what has happened in the cockpit of the doomed flight 815

1st : if the copilot wasn't harnessed in his seat prior to the crash, he would have had a good reason not to wear his seatbelt
* he was on the way or just returning from the restroom. No. I'm not kidding. :)

what if he barely survived the crash and tried to see if anyone else was alrightor get help, but died before entering the passenger section of the plane? He would leave the pilot stationary to avoid further injury.
I think the pilot theory is a stretch.

Yet another oddity among so many about that crash.* Maybe it was dramatic effect, but it's equally likely to me that it could be deliberate, and that it means something.*

Why exactly would he turn around, anyway?* When he lost radio contact, wouldn't it make more sense to continue on to where people at least expect him to be?* He can't communicate with the ground no matter which airport he heads for, why head for an airport that isn't expecting him?*

Why didn't he make some kind of announcement about turning around and heading for FIji?*

(Aren't there any pilots lurking out there?)

We've seen (in fact no we haven't) the pilot be killed by the monster

True -- the guy in the tree was battered beyond recognition.

I see no reason to assume anything extraordinary happened in the cockpit.

The Copilot could have been out of his seat at the time of the turbulence, for a legitimate reason, and been unable to re-harness himself before the plane ripped apart. This would have most certainly resulted in his death, and who's to say that his body must have 'slammed' against the door? I seriously doubt the cockpit of the plane was in the exact same position as it was on initial impact. In all likelihood, the cockpit bounced around a little bit, and perhaps the Copilot's body simply came to rest on the door. No 'slamming' necessary.

I see no reason to assume anything extraordinary happened in the cockpit.

Is there a reason to assume that something extraordinary didn't happen?

Based on what? The fact that the Co-Pilot was out of his seat at some point? Co-Pilots do get up. There's no evidence of anything extraordinary. If he'd been [i]shot/[i] or something, you might have a point. But there's absolutely no proof that anything strange happened. A Co-Pilot being out of their seat isn't proof of a conspiracy. It happens.

Why exactly would he turn around, anyway? When he lost radio contact, wouldn't it make more sense to continue on to where people at least expect him to be? He can't communicate with the ground no matter which airport he heads for, why head for an airport that isn't expecting him?

I do, however, agree that this is a little bizarre, and I've posed the same question before. Why deviate from your flight path if you lose communication. Seems like all the more reason to do so.

I didn't mean extraordinary only in relation to the harness or lack of it, I meant in general.* One strange thing had already happened: he lost radio contact and he turned around.* (Which nobody noticed, evidently, and which he didn't announce.)*

I see no reason to assume anything extraordinary happened in the cockpit.

have you seen 1 ordinary thing in Lost thus far ??? :D

maybe i will start a ship like the "W.H.I.S.P.E.R.S." :D

I'd join a pilot/crash ship.** :laugh:

I see what you're getting at, Bess -- about someone watching them closely. Although it seems like it would have made more sense for them to kill off the pilot before the gang got there. I mean they couldn't have known in advance that the pilot wouldn't give them any useful information whatsoever, like where they are.

Bess - That's tesla "guidance beam" to you, missy!* :laugh:

tarf - If you are thinking of a ship for technophiles to use real science to formulate theories and hypotheses, I am up for it.* But just another place for newbies to post "What's up you guys?* Do you think they're in purgatory? Maybe Locke is the devil." wouldn't interest me.* We get plenty of that already.*

(Now, newbies, nobody encourages your participation more than I do.* I'm speaking very specifically about tarf's possible new ship.* No offense is intended.* :angel:* He may not even form one.)*

I'm speaking very specifically about tarf's possible new ship.* No offense is intended.* :angel:* He may not even form one.)*


Actually i'm not interested in ships, neither to form one or to join one :D

Making a pun about one of them ships (N.U.M.B.E.R.S.) i would quote Patrick MacGoohan's character (Number 6) in "the prisonner" by saying
"I am not a NUMBER, i am a free man !!!"

Anyway, i was supportive of the WHISPERS ship from the start, even though i did not voice that support
the "I am not a NUMBER, i am a free man !!!" sums up what i think about ships, and anyway, each theory thread is a ship per se
We are all in it together, like the survivors are in the same "boat", why take "sides" in the "ship" forum (yup the words were deliberately handpicked :D )

I'd join a "try to explain it with science and pseudoscience" ship! *

(As opposed to, "try to explain it with paranormal superpowers and the hidden meaning of the anagram of Claire as it relates to the ancient Mayan calendar" approach, not that I don't think it's a worthy approach but the former is more fun for me.)

Maybe it could have an already-been-theorized list for the newbies, so as to encourage their participation without having to retread old ground.

And in answer to tarf -- for the same reason as WHISPERS I guess, to beat a subject to death at leisure, without subjecting everyone else in the thread to it.* *:laugh:

There was a reason fo them to go to the cockpit
It was to get info from the 'pilot'
The real pilot no connections
the real pilot who was one of the controlling others
a replacement, an other
Was the info true
Was the info false