Welcome to the LOST Rewind for episode 3x21, “Greatest Hits”

Timestamp: Day 92 December 22, 2004

To get started, note the similarities between this episode and "Exodus I:" we have a stranger storming the camp with the bad news that The Others are on their way; Jack digs up Danielle's "run, hide or die" speech, but turns it on its head by suggesting that they will do no such thing--they're going to fight back, dagnabit; the survivors are split up on different missions--one headed into the jungle, one on the water; and, hey! Look! It's Danielle! And explosives!

Did I miss any?

So, the Looking Glass station. What is it?


Well, let's start with the name: The Looking Glass is an obvious reference to the second Alice in Wonderland book: Through the Looking-Glass, and What Alice Found There. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Through_the_looking_glass) Alice ponders a mirror, wondering what the universe is like on the opposite side, and then finds out by passing through it. It is in this book that she encounters Tweedledee and Tweedledum, and plays chess with the Red Queen.


So, a journey into an alternate universe. Interesting. There's something more: look at the Looking Glass' DHARMA logo: it's a white rabbit. (http://bp0.blogger.com/_8HhjIy50yEY/RkvWe2noepI/AAAAAAAAAFU/wRi_zuFjnjE/s1600-h/lost_323_looking_glass_04.jpg) White Rabbit? As in the White Rabbit (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_Rabbit), that Alice follows down the rabbit hole in the first book, Alice's Adventures in Wonderland (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alice_In_Wonderland) A white rabbit, as in the title of the episode wherein Jack follows his dead father across the island? A white rabbit as in Ben's little pet, both when he was a child and as an adult? A white rabbit, as in the one Alex was skinning in the Others' camp?


A rabbit is a symbol full of meaning. It is at once a symbol of fertility, innocence and rebirth. They can be symbols of luck--consider those lucky rabbits' feet. Tricksters (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trickster), which in literature and myth are spirits that play pranks or cause mayhem, are often represented as rabbits. They're clowns that break the rules of the gods, often by playing tricks or via theft. (Sound familiar?) Harvey (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harvey_%28film%29) is a perfect example of a trickster rabbit. And then, of course, there are magicians' rabbits.


So Ben's affection for bunnies. What to make of it? In shamanistic cultures (http://www.geocities.com/RainForest/4076/index2.html), shamans work with animal spirits or guides. The rabbit represents the following in shamanism:

Guile
Paradox and contradiction
Living by one's own wits
Receiving hidden teachings and intuitive messages
Quick-thinking
Humility
Moving through fear
Strengthening intuition


Aside from the "humility" part, sounds like Ben to me. So is a rabbit serves as a symbol of Ben as well? If so, what to make of Alex (interesting homophone of "Alice" there) killing the white rabbit? An indication of what's to come?

But back to the Alice in Wonderland reference: Alice follows the white rabbit down the rabbit hole, and into an entirely new world. Could the Looking Glass be the rabbit hole, where people enter the new world of the island? We know that part of its purpose is as a submarine dock; could it be that this is where the submarines actually first arrive, rather than the dock where we see people exit the submarine?


Consider, people are drugged for their journey to the island, but why? There can only be two reasons, as far as I can tell: either someone doesn't want anyone to know where the island is, or someone doesn't want anyone to know how they got there. Could they be teleporting (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teleport) folks to the island, and the Looking Glass is one of the ports?


Keeping in mind that the rabbit is a trickster, perhaps the White Rabbit logo is a hint that we are being tricked in regards to what the Looking Glass actually is. But we can agree that the Looking Glass, symbolically, is a threshold; (http://knightofswords.wordpress.com/2007/04/24/crossing-the-threshold/)a doorway of sorts. At least it is for Charlie -- he must pass the threshold of the Looking Glass to complete his mission: save Claire, save the survivors.

Charlie enters this new world and is reborn--reborn as a hero. (And talk about birth imagery: Charlie emerges head first from a watery environment, takes a deep gulping breath of air and shouts "I'm alive! I'm alive!" which happen to be the very last lines of the episode.)


Guess what? I've got to split this up again. The Rewind will be continued below. Sorry for being so long-winded!

Rewind Continued:

And this brings us to The Meaning of the Episode: Charlie's story as the mono-myth. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monomyth)
Mono-myth? What is that? Star Wars fans should recognize the mono-myth as Joseph Campbell's conceit. The idea that certain hero mythologies, spanning all cultures and going back thousands of years, follow a very simple pattern:


1. a call to adventure, which the hero has to accept or decline
2. a road of trials, regarding which the hero succeeds or fails
3. achieving the goal or "boon," which often results in important self-knowledge
4. a return to the ordinary world, again as to which the hero can succeed or fail
5. application of the boon in which what the hero has gained can be used to improve the world

Check it out, Charlie's list of "greatest hits?" The greatest moments of his life? They weren't arranged randomly. They follow the above list. As do the events that happen to Charlie on the island in this episode:


1. A call to adventure = #5 Charlie hears his Driveshaft song on the radio for the first time, and realizes he will be a "bloody rock god" = Charlie learns that Claire can be rescued.


Charlie has lost hope with the band and is ready to quit when the group hears You All Everybody on the radio, and hope is reborn! Charlie will be a rock star after all! On the island, this scene is shown shortly before Desmond tells Charlie that Claire and Aaron will be rescued via the helicopter. Hope is reborn!


2. A road of travails = #4 Charlie's father teaches him to swim = Charlie learns he will drown to death.


As a child, Charlie is frightened to learn how to swim, but after some encouragement from his father, Charlie overcomes his fear and dives in. On the island, this scene takes place just before Charlie learns that to be the hero, it requires that he drown to death. Which, of course, is a nice bookend to the flashback--Charlie must learn to swim, only so that he can drown.


3. Achieving the goal or "boon," self-knowledge = #3 Liam gives Charlie the family ring = Charlie telling young Aaron that he loves him.


Liam gives Charlie the family ring, the symbol of their lineage. The ring is the symbolic "boon:" it represents Charlie's specialness, is bestowed upon him because he's the "different" one, the one that will have a family. And he does have a family: Claire and Aaron. To whom he bestows the family "boon."


4. A return to the ordinary world = #2 Charlie saves the woman from the mugger = Charlie accepts the mission and says his goodbyes.


Charlie saves Nadia after Driveshaft has broken up, and he has returned to the ordinary world where he is no longer a "rock god." And he passes the test. On the island, Charlie has to say goodbye to his family and friends, the members of his ordinary world, before he can complete the mission.


5. Application of the boon = #1 Charlie meets Claire = Charlie goes on his mission to the Looking Glass.


Charlie has finally found his great purpose in life: loving and saving Claire, and he accepts it. The child in Claire's womb will be the inheritor of Charlie's boon, but for the child to carry on Charlie's inheritance, Charlie must commit an act of sacrifice and heroism.


There are plenty of heroic characters on the show whose stories also follow the mono-myth pattern, but the difference here is that the writers are literally drawing the comparison out for us on that list that Charlie creates. Charlie has successfully transformed himself into the "hero."



But heroes? Don't always get their happy endings.


And here's the question: what would the "happy ending" be in this case? According to Desmond's flashes, Charlie can't even be a hero unless he dies. Therefore, Charlie lives = no rescue = no happy ending. Charlie dies = rescue = happy ending.


Of course, Desmond's flashes are less than accurate. He only sees events in bits and pieces, and therefore it's difficult to say whether the flash of Claire's rescue is actually dependent upon the events in the flashes of Charlie's death. After all, it never mattered if Charlie died the last time, it was never going to be Penny in that flight suit. Remember, the reason that Desmond believed it would be Penny is that he had a flash of Penny (http://photogallery.longlostlist.net/albums/uploads/catch22/E3S17_033.jpg) on the island. Was this an event that is yet to come, just as perhaps the rescue helicopters are an event further along in the future than Desmond realizes? And perhaps flipping the switch is an important event, but it has no direct bearing on whether or not the rescue helicopters come, at least not in the immediate future. (I don't know that I actually believe this, by the way, just putting it out there as a possibility.)
But it was awfully nice of Desmond to offer to take Charlie's place, wasn't it? It's interesting that we have a very defined line being drawn between those who sacrifice themselves versus those who sacrifice others: Desmond, Charlie and Jack have all been self-sacrificing, whereas Ben and Locke have sacrificed others. You could also argue that so have Sayid, Kate, Sawyer, and Michael. Where this is headed? Does the flash-forward in "Through the Looking Glass" suggest that Jack finally has to sacrifice some to stay on the island for others to leave?


And along those lines, the entire issue of taking someone's place brings up the whole Jacob/Esau story (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jacob#Birthright), wherein Jacob tricks his older brother Esau out of his birthright: Easu comes home from hunting, and is starving. So Jacob offers his a bowl of porridge in exchange for his older brother's birthright. Esau gives Jacob the birthright, and says "I am going to die—what is this birthright to me?" And hands it right over. Some interesting points about this story (via Wikipedia):


The birthright included not only the traditional Biblical birthright, which granted superior rank in the family (Genesis (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genesis) 49:3), a double portion of the paternal inheritance (Deuteronomy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deuteronomy) 21:17), and the priestly office in the family (Numbers (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Book_of_Numbers) 8:17-19), but the Abrahamic blessing as well, which promised that his descendants would be a source of blessing for all the nations of the earth (Genesis (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genesis) 21:15-18). However, Esau, knowing that God had declared that Abraham's descendants would be enslaved for 400 years before returning to their own land (referring to the Hebrews' enslavement in Egypt) (Genesis (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genesis) 15:13-14), wanted to exclude himself from being part of God's chosen people (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chosen_people). Esau doesn't want the family blessings, he doesn't want to be tied down to the obligations of being one of God's chosen people.


Now, compare Jacob and Esau with Liam and Charlie:


Liam gives Charlie his birthright when he bestows upon Charlie the family ring--which is interesting for a couple reasons: 1. Liam, says that he won't be the family man (kinda like Esau) but, of course, is the one that cleans up and becomes just that long before Charlie. So, he was somewhat mistaken in saying that Charlie was different than him in that regard. 2. The Jacob/Esau story is dependent upon trickery as a means of taking the birth right. Liam gives Charlie the ring without hesitation--Charlie doesn't trick him out of it. In fact, he tries to refuse it.


Which brings me to the exchange between Desmond and Charlie in the boat. Charlie allows Desmond to believe that Desmond will take his place, and when his back is turned he smacks Des across the head with the oar (which is similar to the moment in "Flashes" when Desmond thinks he can change time, and gets thwacked with a cricket bat). Tricky move on Charlie's part. But again, we have the issue of Desmond trying to take Charlie's place, and Charlie tricking Desmond in order to keep it. Another reversal of sorts of the Jacob/Esau story: one brother (note that Charlie calls Desmond "brutha" in that scene) is tricking the other brother to keep what is rightfully his.

So, what did I leave out? Tons, I'm sure.

Thanks again for allowing me to take part in the Rewind, and for reading these interminable posts of mine. It's been so much fun, and my great pleasure to participate! And, as always, big props to CrimsonRabbit for the wonderful idea!

Wow, Todell, another fantastic Rewind post. I (and I'm sure this goes for everyone else) really appreciate what you and all the other contributors to the Rewind have done for the rest of us...Thanks!

I only have one small point to raise regarding this episode: in the flashback where Charlie is learning to swim, if you listen closely you can hear some kid calling for Desmond...I'm sure this has been caught before, but I was wondering what people thought of it. Easter egg? Something more significant?

Well done, sir Todell!

For a character as long-suffering as Charlie Pace was, the writers made his story complete and gave him an honourable ending.. even if it wasn't the ending that some of us wanted..
Something that Shannon, Libby, Boone, etc. did not really have..

I am most anxious to watch the development of Claire without Charlie going forward. Their relationship, complicated as it may have been, was a large and defining part of how we all know Claire. To see her independant and alone (again) will be interesting..

Small point, tremorstone, but I am a Madam Todell, not a Sir. (Although that's impossible to tell from my screen name.) :wink1:

You are 100% correct. They gave Charlie's a hero's death, and gave him the time and dignity the character deserved. For once.

As far as the Desmond thing, Liplocked, I remember people talking about it when it aired, and I can only think that it was a easter egg for those of us paying such close attention. Of course, Charlie and Desmond crossed paths in Desmond's flashback or flashforward or flashpresent, whatever that was, in "Flashes Before Your Eyes." So, who knows? Maybe young Desmond was at that pool that day, too.

:eek: But I haven't posted yet! lol - I do have something to say about the swimming pool though... dad's accent: he sounds like a Scot - so funny LMD should mention Des.

Dad sounded like a Yorkshireman last time we met him - Northern true enough, but Mancs are from Lancs, and that's NOT the same thing at all! :mad: ;)

<-- still fighting the War of the Roses ...except when I choose to belong to the House of York. :p
(I'll resume Rewind sometime Sunday - I can't do it justice untill then).

:eek: But I haven't posted yet! lol

D'OH !!:doh:

Sorry, LightMeDark and Liplocked! :redface:

nice post todell

would it be churlish of me to point out that there is a park bench (i think) in the background of the picture of penny ? (http://photogallery.longlostlist.net/albums/uploads/catch22/E3S17_033.jpg)

one thing i got second time round was what desmond said about claire
What I saw Charlie was...Claire and her baby getting into a helicopter. A helicopter that...that lifts off...leaves this Island.

now, i'm wondering if desmond is actually describing claire being rescued from the freighter people by the others and taken to the hydra.

Dharma may have had a helicopter (there was one in the sri lanka vid) and the others may have it now, and aaron may be very important to them

just a thought..

Small point, tremorstone, but I am a Madam Todell, not a Sir. (Although that's impossible to tell from my screen name.) :wink1:

:redface: So sorry!

Haha, no problem Todell :p

Another thing that always bothers me is the scene with Charlie meeting Claire. He says something to the effect that it won't be long before the rescue helicopters come, and I think somewhere in season 1 he also mentione rescue specifically coming from helicopters. I might be wrong about this, but I think most people wouldn't think of helicopters as their first choice of rescue vehicle most likely to come for them.

Haha, no problem Todell :p

Another thing that always bothers me is the scene with Charlie meeting Claire. He says something to the effect that it won't be long before the rescue helicopters come, and I think somewhere in season 1 he also mentione rescue specifically coming from helicopters. I might be wrong about this, but I think most people wouldn't think of helicopters as their first choice of rescue vehicle most likely to come for them.

Isn't a helicopter the most obvious and logical. If a plane was doing the search mission they would have to make several passes and where would they land unless it was one of those planes that can land on water.

Helicopter is a standard in the coast guard. Maneuvering and landing tight spots.

Just wondering what you're first choice of rescue would be?

Another option could be a boat, but at the time Charlie said that, it wasn't common knowledge that this island was not able to be seen or off radar.

Great job! You are a rockstar Todell! :buttrock9pq:

Rewind Continued:

And this brings us to The Meaning of the Episode: Charlie's story as the mono-myth. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monomyth)
Mono-myth?

1. a call to adventure, which the hero has to accept or decline
2. a road of trials, regarding which the hero succeeds or fails
3. achieving the goal or "boon," which often results in important self-knowledge
4. a return to the ordinary world, again as to which the hero can succeed or fail
5. application of the boon in which what the hero has gained can be used to improve the world

Check it out, Charlie's list of "greatest hits?" The greatest moments of his life? They weren't arranged randomly. They follow the above list.

Wow, I think you nailed the meaning of the episode very well. The defining moment for me of Charlie accepting the call to adventure was when he locked himself in the room of the Looking Glass - knowing it meant he would die and Desmond would live. Talk about cheering & crying at the same time!


And along those lines, the entire issue of taking someone's place brings up the whole Jacob/Esau story (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jacob#Birthright), wherein Jacob tricks his older brother Esau out of his birthright: Easu comes home from hunting, and is starving. So Jacob offers his a bowl of porridge in exchange for his older brother's birthright. Esau gives Jacob the birthright, and says "I am going to die—what is this birthright to me?" And hands it right over. Some interesting points about this story (via Wikipedia):


Esau doesn't want the family blessings, he doesn't want to be tied down to the obligations of being one of God's chosen people.


Now, compare Jacob and Esau with Liam and Charlie:


Liam gives Charlie his birthright when he bestows upon Charlie the family ring--which is interesting for a couple reasons: 1. Liam, says that he won't be the family man (kinda like Esau) but, of course, is the one that cleans up and becomes just that long before Charlie. So, he was somewhat mistaken in saying that Charlie was different than him in that regard. 2. The Jacob/Esau story is dependent upon trickery as a means of taking the birth right. Liam gives Charlie the ring without hesitation--Charlie doesn't trick him out of it. In fact, he tries to refuse it.


Interesting, once giving up their birthright, they become better men. Liam cleans up his act, Charlie becomes the hero. Probably nothing - but I wonder if Aaron needs to pass that ring along!

Another great Rewind T. Should have known I would become so engrossed in reading it that I would burn my breakfast! ...Proving, I can't do two things at once! LOL! :biggrin:

BL - what the heck is that in the screencap of Des & Penny! Good eye! :1eye:

Another option could be a boat, but at the time Charlie said that, it wasn't common knowledge that this island was not able to be seen or off radar.

I think a boat is the most obvious and logical means of rescue. Sure, helicopters might actually take you to the boat, but, to me, it just seems much more natural to say the boat is coming, or just "they're" coming, not specify a helicopter.

Another excellent analysis Tordell!! Thanks for that.

I think that Brother Campbell from Catch 22 was a reference to Joseph Campbell, writer of 'The Hero with a Thousand Faces' and the mono-myth. Charlie's journey certainly fits in with the Heroes adventure (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Hero_with_a_Thousand_Faces) structure almost perfectly except that according to Campbell's structure he is only 2/3rds of the way through his quest. Charlie has completed his 'Initation' phase - the only phase remaining is 'The Return'. Whether Charlie returns in living or spirit form in the coming seasons it remains that he has yet pass on the boon of rescue (achieved through sacrifice) onto his community. This storyline will lose its emotional weight if Charlie's sacrifice is wasted or even short changed due to the rescuers being bad and rescue itself being bad. His sacrifice must achieve some greater good just by virtue of the mythic structure. And it was Brother Campbell who in Catch-22 told Desmond not to underestimate the value of sacrifice.

I was also interested in your observations on "the birthright". In many ways Charlie has always been the younger brother of Lost; in his backstory with Liam and in many of his on-island relationships. We have seen Charlie playing little brother to Jack, Sayid, Eko and later Desmond. In these relationships Charlie is always the tag-a-long, the sidekick, the lower status character. It is like Liam branded Charlie as the "baby brother" and he has been trapped in the stereotype ever since. I think Charlie counts the moment he was given Liam's birthright as significant, because it raised him from the younger brother status. In his on-island journey too Charlie has always wanted to raise his status - he felt like he never made the "A-team" cut, he was looked down upon, treated like a child, etc. In GHs he has his "brutha" Desmond offering to take his place - Desmond will take the hero role and Charlie will remain the lower status protectee.

I think Charlie seized his destiny back from Desmond (even though he knew it would result in his death) because he wanted to believe there was a purpose to his life, a purpose that was solely his. I wouldn't say Charlie is fatalistic the same way that Locke is, but he was an old pupil of Locke's and shares some of his yearning for a destiny. Charlie has always been desperate to contribute, to do and be something important. I consider it a very sad ending for his character that he was only allowed to raise his status for a brief moment before his journey was cut short by death. Charlie was finally starting to shine and the writers snuffed him out - as if they wanted to reinforce Charlie's insignificance in their story after he broke the mold and stepped up a level. They would never allow Charlie to become the hero of their long term saga. Their heroes will remain the alpha males - the Jacks, Sawyers and Lockes - the big brothers rather than the little brothers.

The only other thing I wanted to say here is - Dominic Monaghan. He was terrific in this episode. Do you know that since leaving Lost Dom has gotten a new tattoo reading "Art mirrors Life"? I can easily see how Dom's experience mirrored Charlie's. Dom had told the writers that he was "sick of being a bridesmaid". He wanted Charlie to step up, to have more importance. The writers (like Desmond) told Dom his fate in advance - that Charlie would step up, he would become a hero, but he would also be killed off. Dom accepted this lousy deal for the chance to prove his strength and quality as an actor. It seems very unjust that Dom gave so much and all he got in return was a dismissal. But then that was Charlie's fate too. Personally I think the writers should be kicking themselves for wasting and then throwing away such a great character/actor. This ONE great episode will always remain a beautiful tribute to him, but what a waste of potential.

I think that Brother Campbell from Catch 22 was a reference to Joseph Campbell, writer of 'The Hero with a Thousand Faces' and the mono-myth. Charlie's journey certainly fits in with the Heroes adventure (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Hero_with_a_Thousand_Faces) structure almost perfectly except that according to Campbell's structure he is only 2/3rds of the way through his quest. Charlie has completed his 'Initation' phase - the only phase remaining is 'The Return'. Whether Charlie returns in living or spirit form in the coming seasons it remains that he has yet pass on the boon of rescue (achieved through sacrifice) onto his community. This storyline will lose its emotional weight if Charlie's sacrifice is wasted or even short changed due to the rescuers being bad and rescue itself being bad. His sacrifice must achieve some greater good just by virtue of the mythic structure. And it was Brother Campbell who in Catch-22 told Desmond not to underestimate the value of sacrifice.

Great post Captain. I really hope Charlie completes the remaining phase - The Return. You are absolutely right - the storyline will lose its emotional weight if Charlie's sacrifice is wasted.

You reminded me of Charlie's comment in the Pilot Part II to Kate - "Every trek needs a coward." It struck me at the time that that was an important statement to be made about oneself. I guess it put me in the mindset to notice his evolution on the Island. Charlie is one of my favorite characters by far and it would be a shame if his sacrifice was wasted. You give me hope that this is not the last we see of Charlie - in one form or another.

Thanks Punky! I think many fans share that hope...

You reminded me of Charlie's comment in the Pilot Part II to Kate - "Every trek needs a coward." It struck me at the time that that was an important statement to be made about oneself. I guess it put me in the mindset to notice his evolution on the Island.I think his heroic potential has always been there. 'Greatest Hits' strongly mirrors Charlie's first episode 'The Moth' where he takes on another possible suicide mission - crawling into a cave in to rescue Jack. Charlie's tunnelling and then resurfacing is similar to his diving and resurfacing - both moments of death and rebirth or emerging from a cocoon.

I wanted to add that another thing I love about 'Greatest Hits' is how it celebrates several unlikely and unsung heroes of Lost, not just Charlie. We have Desmond (another character who considers himself a coward) bravely offering to take Charlie's place, even if it means sacrificing his reunion with Penny. We have Sayid, Jin and Bernard - three characters that have been backburned through S3 - stepping up and taking on another very dangerous mission for the sake of the group. We also have Hurley who (like buddy Charlie) really wants to contribute and step up, who ultimately proves himself a hero with his dramatic van rescue. Even Karl and Alex, the underlings of the Others tribe, step up in this episode and score a victory over their superiors.

I've long been an ardent supporter of the B-Team and they all show their heroism in this episode and the finale that follows.

I’ve had a bout of Thumper Rabbit’s Mother’s Advice Syndrome – but I’m over it now: I CAN say something nice, so I needn’t shut my face up any longer. J

Also Black Lotus had addressed the ‘Des only said “climbed into a helicopter” …could have been abduction as easily as rescue’ issue – so I can leave that.

Well, let's start with the name: The Looking Glass is an obvious reference to the second Alice in Wonderland book: Through the Looking-Glass, and What Alice Found There.Alice ponders a mirror, wondering what the universe is like on the opposite side, and then finds out by passing through it. It is in this book that she encounters Tweedledee and Tweedledum, and plays chess with the Red Queen.

Would LOVE to meet a Red Queen in LOST (that comment is now on my proscribed list for over repetition). Those twins themes just won’t go away will they?

The two above you mention,
though battling when met,
forget their petty differences,
in face of a new threat.
:biggrin:

A rabbit is a symbol full of meaning. It is at once a symbol of fertility, innocence and rebirth. They can be symbols of luck--consider those lucky rabbits' feet. Tricksters, which in literature and myth are spirits that play pranks or cause mayhem, are often represented as rabbits. They're clowns that break the rules of the gods, often by playing tricks or via theft. (Sound familiar?) Harvey is a perfect example of a trickster rabbit. And then, of course, there are magicians' rabbits.

Heard the story about how God blessed Rabbit’s bottom? :bunny: and, because I know shall be mentioning Celtic culture again:http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.calendersign.com/images/mondhase.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.calendersign.com/en/am_hare_hedgehog.php&h=220&w=437&sz=9&hl=en&start=2&um=1&tbnid=azr6PLzc-crVEM:&tbnh=63&tbnw=126&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dblack%2Bhare%2Bon%2Bthe%2Bmoon%26svnu m%3D10%26um%3D1%26hl%3Den%26rls%3Dcom.microsoft:en-US%26sa%3DN
(scroll down to 5 - although the page is a very interesting read) a Black Hare on, symbol of female fertility, the Moon. The one in the middle holding Eaostre’s Egg is the one I can see.

So Ben's affection for bunnies. What to make of it? In shamanistic cultures, shamans work with animal spirits or guides.

Yeah – I remember reading about that when I was convinced the Swan was really a cobra.

So is a rabbit serves as a symbol of Ben as well? If so, what to make of Alex (interesting homophone of "Alice" there) killing the white rabbit? An indication of what's to come?

Ben looks like a rabbit – but I wasn’t fooled by timid ‘Henry’ ; our neighbours’ bunny found it’s way into our garden onc on a summer’s afternoon, and when the man of the house came to retrieve the wee beastie…

He had changed into long pants and sleeves and was wearing thick rubber work gauntlets and and safety goggles. :ermm: ‘Harvey’ (black as it happens) was a bit of a hard nut.

My vet, incidentally, advises against rabbits as pets for young children – he thinks they’re too dangerous!

But back to the Alice in Wonderland reference:

Absolutely. *cough*

Alice follows the white rabbit down the rabbit hole, and into an entirely new world. Could the Looking Glass be the rabbit hole, where people enter the new world of the island? We know that part of its purpose is as a submarine dock; could it be that this is where the submarines actually first arrive, rather than the dock where we see people exit the submarine?

I’m curious as to the purpose of the unseen rooms in the Looking Glass – what goes on behind their doors? – so you may have something there.

Or, the much speculated, spooky supernatural portal thingy is above the Island, which explains why Dharma do food ‘drops’ : in at one end …out the other like Alice fell in Wonderland.

Consider, people are drugged for their journey to the island, but why? There can only be two reasons, as far as I can tell: either someone doesn't want anyone to know where the island is, or someone doesn't want anyone to know how they got there. Could they be teleporting folks to the island, and the Looking Glass is one of the ports?

The drugs may be more than sedative – you may need elevated levels of something or other (or some similar medical intervention) to make the trip (transition?) safely.

Like in the book I mentioned, once, somewhere, ages ago, about Great Distance travel and the need for unconsciousness to survive the Time Travel freaky aspect with your sanity intact.

A wonderful, scary, short read from an author whose name escapes me now (but a sci-fi giant I’m sure).

Charlie enters this new world and is reborn--reborn as a hero.

Small compensation for his being drowned if you’re a fan http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tlalocan but the bit about death by lightening strike was kinda cool. Hadn’t thought of it as water related despite the accompanying rain.



And here's the question: what would the "happy ending" be in this case?
I don’t require one – and the story’s emotional needs are met equally well by tragedy, irony and poignancy. Meh. I’m unqualified to comment further.

It's interesting that we have a very defined line being drawn between those who sacrifice themselves versus those who sacrifice others:
I don’t see it myself. What I have observed are the consequences of mercy: Sayid – didn’t shoot Ana with the gun she handed him… then when she hands one to Mike (who saved her!) Libby and herself are killed. Des - while in Charlie’s presence - didn’t kill Mikhail who has killed Charlie now, Sayid (again) didn’t shoot John at the Pearl, who has now knifed Naomi…
Desmond, Charlie and Jack have all been self-sacrificing, whereas Ben and Locke have sacrificed others.
You do play chess, yeah? ;)
Liam gives Charlie his birthright when he bestows upon Charlie the family ring--which is interesting for a couple reasons: 1. Liam, says that he won't be the family man (kinda like Esau) but, of course, is the one that cleans up and becomes just that long before Charlie.
Predicting the future is tricky isn’t it? It will refuse to turn out the way you expect… or have been led to believe.
Which brings me to the exchange between Desmond and Charlie in the boat.
And me to John and Hurley’s exchange spear fishing: John doesn’t want to know the future – for fear he may not like what he hears – a very intriguing take from the destined questor. Knowledge may be power, forewarned may be forearmed, but thinking you know something you do not, may be fatally compromising.
For yourself or whomever you thought you might save.
Charlie allows Desmond to believe that Desmond will take his place, and when his back is turned he smacks Des across the head with the oar (which is similar to the moment in "Flashes" when Desmond thinks he can change time, and gets thwacked with a cricket bat).
Gosh yes! :D we were lucky to keep him – Des might have popped off again.
one brother (note that Charlie calls Desmond "brutha" in that scene) is tricking the other brother to keep what is rightfully his.
Maybe Charlie thought Liam had what was rightfully his in marriage and fatherhood? he was certainly envious of his brother, maybe the ring will find Liam again? maybe Charlie is Liam… …maybe I should just shut up. :blushing: I will shortly.

So, what did I leave out? Tons, I'm sure.
I feel like that every time I post :smile: But this has been a blast – thank you for taking the trouble.

Check out Todell's analysis of Charlie's "greatest hits" as mono-myth (in the first post of this thread). It pretty much sums up the episode, IMO.

I'm thinking we may not have seen the last of helicopter rescues from the island. Des told Charlie specifically that he had a vision of Claire and Aaron boarding a helicopter and being taken from the island. I might chalk this up to the fact that Desmond's visions come in bits and pieces, but Charlie also told Claire on the night he met her that "before you know it the helicopters will come and take us home". Remember what Chekhov said about his gun (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chekhov%27s_gun).

Alex seemed to be working against her dad. She gave Locke a gun when she realized that Ben was taking him to Jacob's cabin. I think that this was to protect him from Ben, not Jacob. Ben apparently got the gun from John (we're not shown how this happened), and used it to shoot him at the edge of the DHARMA pit. When Ben coldly returned the gun to Alex, her hands were covered with the blood of a white rabbit she had been skinning. Was this an indication that messing with fate (i.e., killing the "white rabbit") could leave you with blood on your hands? She also attempted to thwart his premature attack on the beach camp by sending Karl ahead to warn them.

Charlie accepted Liam's ring as a sign that he would carry on the family line, yet Liam was the one who ended up having a child of his own. Were they trading places in some way? As jane_eire has pointed out, Charlie's father did tell him "You need a trade". I'm thinking that Charlie's new family may be the same family that Boone was talking about in the island sweat lodge when he told Locke that he was there to help him find his way and "bring the family back together". Could that also have been the purpose behind the weaving of Jacob's tapestry, to bring the family back together?