I was watching the "Cowboys" ep this weekend on DVR and I had a thought. When Michael is miffed Walt thinks of Locke as a warrior, all I kept thinking was, "but Michael, you are the builder. You have an important job too, get to work already."

The way I see it, we have:

Jack the healer or physical medicine-man

Locke the hunter / warrior (though Walt may be wrong about this) / spiritual medicine-man

Michael the builder (though he would do well to help build shelters and defense (walls, etc.) rather than that death trap of a boat -- note, I think it's more than likely a fine boat, but I have a theory the person who will die may be one of the four on it).

Jin the fisherman

Hurley is another spiritual medicine-man / he's also very good at looking the big picture (thought of need for golf course and to take a census).

Sayid the warrior / electronics repair

Shannon the translator (though she really needs more than just that).

Kate the warrior / tracker

Sawyer perhaps another warrior, but I think as a grifter he could also be a good negotiator or diplomat if he used his head more.

Charlie could be a story teller, but right now it's hard to tell what his role will be, beyond the oh too obvious suitor of Claire.

Claire's role will be mother

Walt, well, special powers aside, he's 10, which in some primitive societies means he should be learning how to hunt soon. This is why I think Locke thought it was OK let Walt learn to throw knives (much to many people's horror).

Sun, I dunno

Boone, he's currently a hunter in training, but all and all, on the island, he's still a child waiting for his right of passage into manhood -- well that may have happened in the ep when Locke tied Boone to the log.

What do you think? Do the Big 14 each have something to bring to the table? A special skill set?

Also, does this mean the person with the least weakest skill set is most likely to be the one who gets killed? I wonder this, but then I recall reading that in the original script, Jack was to die rather than the pilot.

Sun is a nurturer. She maintains the garden and watches Walt on occasion. She also is/was a therapist/keeper of secrets since no one thought she understood English.

Sawyer perhaps another warrior, but I think as a grifter he could also be a good negotiator or diplomat if he used his head more.



I would call Sawyer the merchant.

shootfire

N.E.R.D. #12

Sun is a nurturer.* She maintains the garden and watches Walt on occasion.* She also is/was a therapist/keeper of secrets since no one thought she understood English.


Doh! How could I forget! Sun is the farmer.

Thanks!

Now, the key is... If someone is going to die, then which role is least needed for this society to continue?

Thoughts??

Now, the key is... If someone is going to die, then which role is least needed for this society to continue?


Well, I think this has been discussed at great length in another thread, but Boone seems to be terribly incompetent. While he has good intentions, everything he tries to do turns out wrong. It seems to me that he is almost untrainable, and therefore the weakest link. Still, how often is it that a society loses only its least desireable members. If that were true, there would be no crime. There is always the possiblity the a society will lose one of its most important members, causing great hardships for its members. From a purely "weakest link" perspective, though, I would have to say Boone.

shootfire

N.E.R.D. #12

I think Boone's "incompetence" has been greatly exaggerated. He's the scapegoat and punching bag for the fans. They love to bash and mock him for his failures, but they conveniently leave out that they have come from being in tough situations and/or trying to do very difficult things, such as:

Trying to save Joanna from drowning; trying to preserve the depleting water from a mass of thirsty people who were not rationing it; looking through Sawyer's stuff to get Shannon's inhalers without Sawyer finding and assaulting him; jumping and restraining Michael when he was angry and armed with a knife; trying to stay awake all night alone on guard duty; being attacked from behind, tied up while unconscious and drugged by Locke.

Yes, Boone has made mistakes, failed and been beaten up a lot, but that is because he is totally out of his element on the island and throwing himself into situations he's not prepared for because he wants to help so much.

Boone has also done productive things. If he hadn't tried to save Rose, Jack would've never come to help and she would've died. Later on, he got Jack to talk to Rose when she was despondent, sitting in the sun not eating or drinking anything. He also gave Hurley the idea to check the plane manifest, which is how they found out Ethan wasn't on the plane.

He's also accomplished several things, such as:

Taking the marshall's gun from Sawyer when Sawyer was the suspected prisoner; locating Sawyer's hidden stash in the jungle to find Shannon's inhalers; cutting himself free from Locke's restraints and finding his way back to camp while drugged; beginning to let go of Shannon; making an alliance with Locke, working on the hatch and all the dangerous traveling through the jungle that entails. His time in the jungle with Locke even led to them finding Claire. We also saw him keeping a signal fire going in ...In Translation.

Boone also has very little screen time and we see only a tiny fraction of his life on the island, so who knows what else he has done. What we do know is he is as active and eager to help as anyone and routinely takes big risks. If he was such a weak link, I don't think Locke would have him as his closest ally.

I have seen no evidence that Boone is "almost untrainable." What task has he been trained at that he continues to fail at? I think it's that he led a sheltered, privledged existence before the crash and was never trained at all for life on this island.

We sure do have a lot of warrior types.

Sun is also a healer with her knowledge of herbs (helping Shannon's asthma with the eucalyptus).

I think more importantly than doctor, Jack is a leader

Kate is also more than that, possibly mediator....i can't really put a word to it though

Love the comment about Hurley looking at the big picture...the whole pissed off giraffe conversation shows that

I think more importantly than doctor, Jack is a leader


Yes, but not of his own free will
remembr the "don't choose, don't decide, you don't have waht it takes" speech by his father

i will nevertheless agree that very often a good leader is someone who doesn't want to feel like a leader, because he assesses the situations still as a Human being, and as part of the group, rather than as a "god almighty do-as-i-say-or-get-lost" type of guy

But i still think that Jack is out of place as a leader
In fact it would be more likely to see Boone take a leadership role than to see Jack endorse the leadership of the group
Jack is a solitary guy, he was on the downslope, possibly bound to have a drinking habit. He is not comfortable with people, for example he prefers to go on a wood cutting expedition (saywer's episode) rather than staying around people and try to bring a "community feeling" among the survivors as a leader would do
That's one thing some survivors have seen. When Charlie was depressed, it was Sayid that was sent to talk to him, not Jack
Of course Sayid may have some expertise in the post traumatic thing, but Jack as a doctor also knows how to deal with people in a "state of shock" , and as a leader, it was his duty to watch over his mates

Jack doesn't fit the leader role on the island, he barely manages to deal with his own self, when all the others have somehow "moved on"

Think of the 2 leadership things he has done so far
- One ended up with torturing Sawyer with the help of Sayid
- The other one was threatening Saywer not to give him his meds
If you look at Jack in the show, he is not a leader, he is a dictator (a bit of a strong word, but it is to nail down the point)

Before any one hits me I don't hate Jack he has some good points but.....
I agree with Tarf.* Jack as a leader he is FLAWED to say the least. Even his care ( I use the term loosely) of Claire's "hysteria" about her being attacked was sanctimonoius. He had the attitude of it's all in her mind,let's humor the preg. girl . He didn't LISTEN to her which is key to any leader. He must respect those around him. Also look how he stood by and watched when Jin got beat like a pinata. Isn't one of the characteristics of a leader (and a good doctor) fairness?

Boone has the awareness of others and compassion to be a good leader but I think it will take allot for him to be respected by the LOSTAWAYS. Boone has far to go and maybe this is what Locke is grooming him for because I don't think Locke has much respect for Jack as a leader. I think Jack's ego above anything else will cause a schism in the group.

Ok, maybe "temporary leader" then until someone else takes charge...?

Jack as a leader he is FLAWED to say the least.

In literature most heroic characters are flawed as you say.

Honestly, I don't think either Boone or Jack is in his element. I feel fairly certain, though, that people would not follow Boone at this point. IMHO they will follow Jack, if he will allow them. Perhaps we will get a chance to see them both find themselves.

I do think Jack showed his true leadership potential when he discredited his father in an act of conscience. To say that Jack is uncaring, I think, is not accurate. His actions make me think he leans more to caring too much. Doctors are trained to distance themselves. If they care too much it interferes with their objectivity and ability to treat their patients. He is, first and foremost, a doctor. I think we will eventually see a shift in this aspect of the story. As medical supplies run out, Jack's ability to doctor will become limited. I think we will eventually see healer responsibilities fall to Sun.

Vos,

I, too, have thought that Sayid might make a better leader. Still, he has that sticky RG background to get past.

I think Locke's skills make him a good warrior, a general even. Perhaps the reason we are seeing so many warrior types is that there needs to be a hierarchy of warriors, an army.

I think Jack's ego above anything else will cause a schism in the group.
I don't think Jack has a big ego problem. It is self-doubt that holds him back from taking the reins of leadership.

I have seen no evidence that Boone is "almost untrainable."

I was referring to his exciteability. In a crisis, it is necessary for a leader to maintain calm. I'm not sure that is something that Locke can help him overcome.

OR, maybe he can, we'll see.

As far as Kate is concerned, I think when the survivors buckle down and decide they have to have some kind of law and order, Kate will be the public defender. I like the irony, but it's just a theory.

shootfire

N.E.R.D. #12

Jack doesn't fit the leader role on the island, he barely manages to deal with his own self, when all the others have somehow "moved on"
...

Think of the 2 leadership things he has done so far
- One ended up with torturing Sawyer with the help of Sayid
- The other one was threatening Saywer not to give him his meds
If you look at Jack in the show, he is not a leader, he is a dictator (a bit of a strong word, but it is to nail down the point)


I agree with your agruements, though I think Jack is still considered de facto leader for now -- I even agree Boone may be the best choice for leader since he was a leader at home (though CEO's do not always make good leaders in all situations).

That said, you left something out about Jack that is important. Jack got a bunch of people to leave the beach and more to new shelter. I've seen two camps so far on this: 1) this plays into the black-rock white-rock thing with the beach being white rock and the caves black rock; 2) that moving from the beach to the caves represents leaving their old lives behind and moving forward (I'm sort of in this camp, except it seems to me the people at the caves have more issues, but that could because they are conforting them to move on).

Back to Boone, I started watching the show when it first went into reruns and the stinkin' network showed them out of order, so I do not know if this holds water, but I have a theory that Boone had a right-of-passage of sorts when Locke tied him up and druged him, a dream walk of sorts. Boone is not infallible, but he's also "the-little-engine-that-could" in a lot of ways -- he's always one of the first to volunteer or to try to help. I still think Boone is the apprentice to Lockes hunter.

I think everyone has a role, and it is being developed on the island. Most of the people there dont think much of themselves, and being on the island will bring out their true roles, maybe even roles they didnt ever expect would fit them, for example, Jack was told all his life he wasnt a leader by his dad, but the rest of the surviviors see him as the leader and now he is "transforming" into the person he was meant to be. I think this type of thing goes for everyone there. They will all emerge as their true selves in time, without the world to tell them they are not good enough to be the person they long to be.

He was calm right after the plane crash when we saw him trying to revive Rose while most people were in panic mode.

Was he? *I thought he was doing it wrong. *As a trained lifeguard, he should have known what to do. *I figured that was panic, that he couldn't remember his training. *I agree with almost everything else. *Maybe he is calming down and coming into his own.

shootfire

This thread is so great, thank you mitluf for that one, i think we're up to something here.

shootfire said :
As far as Kate is concerned, I think when the survivors buckle down and decide they have to have some kind of law and order, Kate will be the public defender.

Hey, she's got the Marshall Badge ! ;)

So here's what we've got so far :

Claire : Mother

Charlie : Musician, Story Teller ( imaginary peanut butter and finds his guitar back)

Jack : Doctor, and definitively a Leader (otherwise no one would have followed him to the caves)

Jin : Fisherman

Kate : Public Defender ( she has shown a few times her ability to solve conflicts )

Micheal : Builder ( he has checked the caves integrity and he's building the raft )

Sawyer : Merchant, Goods Supplier

Sayid : Engineer

Sun : Farmer, Alternative Medecine ( maintains the garden and knows medicinal plants )

Hurley : let's see him as a Delegate or an Administrator who cares about the social life ( census, golf, he reports people are complaining about the lack of boars )

Locke : Hunter, and somehow a Teacher ( the guy knows everything about everything ! )
though, given his physical problems might be coming back in "Deus Ex Machina", i think he'll let the hunting side to Boone and become a kind of living encyclopedia.

Boone : Hunter in training

Walt : his special powers could lead him to become a kind of Sentinel who could warn the others if a threat comes around

Shannon : i can't figure out what is her main skill, she can translate, but i agree to mitluf, it's not enough, her role will certainly be revealed soon

Which brings me to this :

What if all these people have been gathered to set up an environnement for Claire's baby ?
I mean, we can all sense it's all about the baby : Ethan abducting Claire, the psychic having her to get on the plane, ....
And it's all about the dark/light thing also : backgammon, the white and black stones, the psychic's warnings,...

And maybe Danielle Rousseau is here to testify this has happened before : she has lost her child (but we don't know yet if it's a good thing or not :-\ )

I don't think it's about God or Satan, but whatever it is, i think it's about how this baby will grow up.

What do you think ?

What do you think ?


I think your list is the best i've seen so far. The way i see it, everyone in the main cast must have a very clear purpose... the only persons i don't really see having one are Boone and Shannon - i'm expecting a Shannon episode soon, Boone already had his. I also think Hurley's position is highly underrated... he's like the social glue that keeps everyone together somehow.

I think Sawyer is more relevant as a plot goes like you stated above.* But also if I were going to do something on the island,survival related, I would much rather have Sawyer going w/ me than Boone. In the earlier defense of Boone there were a lot of things he had TRIED to do... trying does not cut it in this situation.* Great intentions are just that if you forget your "lifeguard" training ( I wonder how much Jack had) or fall asleep on your post.
(IMO) Sure Sawyer has "procured" certain items on the island, but I believe in his own way he is making sure that people will get something if they need it.* Before the flames start he did not have Shannon's meds to give to them. He did give up his gun. And was one of the ones they wanted to help get Ethan.
edited... had to take out last line, forgot what section this was!

Charlie has a* very obvious role in this ordeal. He is taking on the job of being Claire's support and protector while she raises her magic baby.* In the real world she could more than likely do it herself but out in the wild she will need help. Charlie will be the one who brings her extra coconuts and fish...and will just generally look out for her...whether she wants him to or not! :laugh: We've already seen that he is willing to kill for her.* Apparently all his life he seems to have had this 'need' to look after someone (a myserious preparation for life* the island maybe?* Perhaps this is HIS destiny?)* Its a VERY important job...just as important as hunting boar or fixing radios. If Claire isn't around to raise he magic r baby....elfdream looks over her shoulder as they cue the wooohooo music. :laugh:

I think of him as a St. Joseph type.

Being a father I don't envy Charlie. I would much rater fix a radio or hunt boar that deal with what he is in for. Imaginary peanut butter is was one thing... now you are going to need real diapers :lol2:

Being a father I don't envy Charlie.* I would much rater fix a radio or hunt boar that deal with what he is in for.* Imaginary peanut butter is was one thing... now you are going to need real diapers* * :lol2:


:lol2:

So True.

I'm a mom and I know all about it.* Claire had BETTER appreciate the help.

Hmm...wonder if she'll have post partum depression? That would really test his devotion!!

At least he won't have to hear "You helped me make this... I didn't get pregnant by myself"

I agree with you on some things VOS.* I don't think Boone is an "idiot" or a Buffoon".* I just don't think he is capable of what he is trying to do on the island.* It is not his fault, but he is still not as survivor savvy as the other lostaways.* I think that is the role of Boone on this show.* Maybe he will learn what he has to, but (IMO) his contributions are very limited while he is in LOCKE 101.

in terms of who is useful to the group

:laugh: I wonder if the group would rather have had Boone try to shoot the charging polar bear instead of Sawyer?

I think you're taking a too broad stance at assigning characters specific roles. From a literary standpoint, there should be one role for each character and one character for each role. You've got Jack listed as doctor and leader; he needs to be one of the other. You've got several characters listed as warriors, and there should be only one character that fits the role. I'm not saying that other characters can't portray traits of a specific role or that one character can't portray traits of different roles, but I think there must be one that's more dominant than the others.

I will give you Charlie... *this is not quite the gig he was going to do well at. *I thought for a while he was going to be the one in Locke school but I guess love got in the way. *Sawyer might not be able to track but he can handle himself.
Sometimes a risk is to big, like if you leave a big hole in the perimeter and the dog wakes you up. *You have to know your limitations or expect them to be pointed out to you later.
I have to admit you convinced me on Charlie *pictures Charlie singing by the campfire* , but Sawyer is going to take More convincing ;D

Jack - Cleric
Sawyer - Rouge
Locke – Ranger
Walt – Sorcerer
Charlie – Bard
Kate – Scout
Sayid – Fighter
Hurley – ??? (multi-class)
Sun - Druid
Boone - Commoner
Shannon – Commoner
Claire – Prego commoner
Jin - Assassin
Michael - Commoner

Monster - Adult Green Dragon

Good point. There are some Boone bashing threads out there but I think this has been a good discusion.


That whole guarding the camp - how long were those shifts? Where they all night? Sayid should have known better than to set up such long guard shifts.

They all had the same shift... some times you gotta "buck up little camper" :shocking: If the shifts are to long stay by the fire.

I think you're taking a too broad stance at assigning characters specific roles.* From a literary standpoint, there should be one role for each character and one character for each role.* *You've got Jack listed as doctor and leader; he needs to be one of the other.* You've got several characters listed as warriors, and there should be only one character that fits the role....


Well, I agree and I disagree.

I agree, as the reasons you state are the reasons I posted the question. I thought there must be more to these people than a bunch of warriors -- which seemed to have turned into a catch all.

I disagree on two points:
1) a leader in a tribal setting certainly has more than just the leader role. He/she is usually the best hunter and/or warrior, the medicine man/woman and/or spiritual leader. So, Jack being the leader/medicine man does works -- who will be the leader(s) in the end, I dunno.
2) in a tribal group you tend to have more than one warrior to defend the group or one hunter to provide (humans tend to be group hunters in tribal settings, especially when going after bigger or more dangerous game -- i.e., boar).

I do wish we would start to see the other 30-some-odd survivors doing more than sit around. They need to learn skills and do stuff. I don't think we need to see this in detail though. But, I would expect a tribe of 40+ require more than just a small group doing all the work.

Great posts by everyone!
* *I think Jack is, quite literally, his name:the Shepard. He is the character that more people can relate to in a way-because he was looked at as a leader from the beginning by everyone else due to his medical training and we, as a society, look up to doctors. *So he is leading the sheep (and that would include Shannon (you could call her the sexy sheep) and Boone and Charlie and Claire etc). Sawyer is his FOIL-similar type A personality, but a con-man. He COULD be a leader, but chooses not to be. *Same with Sayid I think.
* *Hurley-one role not mentioned for him I think would be JOKER-remember the Fool is never dumb. He provides entertainment but he is also always thinking.
* *Kate would be a great leader-but I suspect her own troubling criminal past makes her quite content to be out of the spotlight.
* Locke-well. *Since he is a book unto himself, I will let that rest.....:) :) :)

It could be a simple fact that Sayid and perhaps Locke (??) are used to guard duty due to military experience and didn't even think about making it civilian friendly.

If you really want to play around with archetypes, try this on for size.

Twelve gods/godesses in the Greek Pantheon

ZEUS - Fate, Kingship, Weather
HERA - Women, Marriage, Childbirth
POSEIDON - The Sea, Horses, Earthquakes, Rivers
DEMETER - Agriculture, The Afterlife
ATHENE - Crafts, Counsel
HEPHAISTOS - Metalworking, Fire
ARES - War
APHRODITE - Love, Sex
APOLLON - Music, Prophecy, Healing & Disease
ARTEMIS - Hunting, Wilderness, Children
HERMES - Travel, Trade, Livestock
DIONYSOS - Wine, Madness, The Afterlife


Granted that doesn't account for all the Lostaways, but there are plenty of other gods and goddesses to fill in the void.

I am reminded of the convo between Locke & Boone in ATBCHDI about the redshirts always dying in Star Trek, and Locke saying "must've been a pi$$ poor captain"


Good connection.

I'm not saying it wasn't a mistake, just that it probably didn't occur to them.

Interesting that some think Kate could be a better leader. Women usally don't do the 'chain of command' type of leadershp that men do. They tend to 'network' more. It would be interesting to see how that might play out.

I think personally they should do as my father's people..the Cherokees did. In times of peace you had one leader. In times of war and crisis* someone else took over.* The 'peace' chief and the 'war' chief. Each had their own separate councils (and women served on the councils... ;D ). When the time of crisis was over it reverted back to the 'peace' chief. Jack could lead but he should have* Chairman of the Joint* Chiefs... ;D

I think the only thing Charlie will do as a 'bard'* with his guitar in the near future is accompany Claire as she sings "Catch a Falling Star' to baby Boone (oops..did I say that? ;) )

I agree that sometimes you have to "buck up" ... but an all night shift? That's hard on most people....and esp. for people who are not used to such things. I think if Boone has a shorter shift, there would have been a chance he wouldn't have fallen asleep. That said, it could be looked at as a failing on Sayid/Locke's part.


Which sort of puts Boone way down on the leadership board. *We will keep him at "in Training" until he doesn't have to be told not to look at the fire or when he is capable of misevaluating who is right for a task. * :laugh:

With the strong personality's we have it is going to be hard for Jack, Sayid, Locke, Kate or Sawyer to really look to each other as a single leader.

I'm sorry but I just don't see Sawyer as a leader. Maybe if he had had a normal childhood and no trauma but now...the only people who would follow him would be the island* riff-raff... ;D

Strong personality doesn't always a good leader make. I've seen people who could command attention and make a big noise but when it got down to the wire they really didn't have it.

Which could open up a lot of interesting story lines. The island could have its own...'gang'.* ;)

I do think he, like Charlie and Boone have a lot of potential, but not now.

*

I don't think being a doctor is good enough reason to lead...but that's neither here nor there.

But, looking at it now, he's failed to keep the group together - they splintered up into "cave people" and "beach people" fairly quickly. *That and his agruments with Locke sort of go against his "we need to work together or die alone." *




I totally agree, and Jack has made a pretty poor leader for sure. I think the best natural leader-and an obvious one is Locke, although I gather there are trust issues, but I wouldn't have them with that man! :malelovies: :wub:

Sorry... didn't mean to imply that he would be looked at as a leader (although after reading my post that is what it said) just meant that with his personality he probably would not look at anyone as his leader.

The others I could see having a following.

I would love to see the women ordering the men around.


That's going to happen reguardless.... :whistling2:

I would love to see the women ordering the men around.


That sounds like every sitcom on CBS.

Sawyer - now he's a difficult guy to peg.* I don't see him being a leader....and he has issues with all the various leaders of the group, but you know, when push came to shove with Claire - he was there, and I'd bet be "there" for the majority of the lostaways...and I'm begining to think he'd be "there" for even Sayid and Jack.* It's really hard not to like the guy.


But he didn't go out and help search for Claire...'some island natives put a ringer in the camp to kidnap a pregnant girl and a reject from VH-1 has beens?

They had to come to him to help..he didn't go to them and volunteer.

But he didn't go out and help search for Claire...'some island natives put a ringer in the camp to kidnap a pregnant girl and a reject from VH-1 has beens?

They had to come to him to help..he didn't go to them and volunteer.


I am sure he thought the people that had tortured him a few days before could handle it ;)

Well I don't blame Sawyer for not helping out Jack and his crew in a way-they tortured him unfairly - and judged him from the beginning. But I think Sawyer will improve with time-and I think he actually respects Jack, and Sayid for that matter. *Its like Locke told him (through the story of the dog that seemed to be his sister)-he needs to let himself off the hook. Sawyer wouldn't be a good leader because he has too much baggage (yes they all do, but his seems more encompassing). Once he gives something to the island and frees himself-I think the skys the limit for the guy. He has courage to spare, smarts, and he seems to be the only reader! *

and I'm beginning to think he'd be "there" for even Sayid and Jack.

Bess,

I've been sensing that too, especially with Sayid. *It's as if in spite of Sayid's torturing , he respects him. *Maybe he realizes that he kind of brought a lot of it on himself. *In fact, I'm beginning to wonder if he doesn't antagonize his way into these situations to get the punishment he believes he deserves. *Make any sense?

Shootfire

N.E.R.D. #12

Shootfire-makes a LOT of sense. He has a guilty conscience - he killed an innocent man, or at the least, got roped into doing someone else's dirty, VERY dirty work. And now he wants to punish himself.....good thinking....

He has a guilty conscience - he killed an innocent man, or at the least, got roped into doing someone else's dirty, VERY dirty work. And now he wants to punish himself....

....which could lead him to his doom - perhaps by sacrifice ?

Hmm, I really liked bartleby’s post regarding the gods and I got a little carried away:

ZEUS= LOCKE – Fate- firm believer in destiny/fate as evident in “Walkabout”. Kingship- a King is usually viewed as older, fatherly, and wise. Weather- his strange affinity for the rain and his apparent ability to sense it’s coming.

HERA= CLAIRE – Women- what is more representative of womanhood than pregnancy and motherhood? Marriage- it was obvious that being with Thomas was extremely important to her since she had no desire to raise the child without him. Childbirth- obvious

POSEIDON= JIN - The Sea- fishing. Horses- ? Earthquakes- ? Rivers- fishing, again.

DEMETER= SUN – Agriculture- the garden. The Afterlife- ?

ATHENE= MICHAEL / KATE – Crafts- (Michael) builds things with his hands Counsel- (Kate) serves as the mediator of the group.

HEPHAISTOS= SAYID – Metalworking- mechanical skills. Fire- he started the signal fire.

ARES= BOONE? – War- I don’t know, Boone didn’t really seem to fit anywhere else and no one else seems to fit war, what do you guys think?

APHRODITE= SHANNON- Love- it seems to be what she is desperately searching for, Boone is in love with her, and she and Sayid seem to be falling in love. Sex- uses sex to get what she wants and obviously she is being portrayed as the sexiest of the female character with her bikinis and flirting.

APOLLON= CHARLIE / JACK – Music- (Charlie) obvious Prophecy- ? Healing & Disease- (Jack) obvious

ARTEMIS= WALT – Hunting- he seems really enamored with Locke and his hunting abilities. Wilderness- being on the island is like an adventure for him and if he goes up on the island then the wilderness will be the only world he really knows. Children- obvious

HERMES= SAWYER- Travel- ? Trade- obvious. Livestock- ? he has had the most run-ins with the animals of the island, shooting the polar bear and the boar who destroyed his tent and peed on his shirt.

DIONYSOS= HURLEY – Wine- ? Madness- we all assume that he was in the psych ward with Lenny. The Afterlife- ?

Any other thoughts?

....which could lead him to his doom - perhaps by sacrifice ?


Yes, I could see Sawyer giving himself the ultimate redemption by self-sacrifice. I just don't want him to be the one to go :)

Hmm, I really liked bartleby’s post regarding the gods and I got a little carried away:

ZEUS= LOCKE – Fate- firm believer in destiny/fate as evident in “Walkabout”. Kingship- a King is usually viewed as older, fatherly, and wise. Weather- his strange affinity for the rain and his apparent ability to sense it’s coming.

HERA= CLAIRE – Women- what is more representative of womanhood than pregnancy and motherhood? Marriage- it was obvious that being with Thomas was extremely important to her since she had no desire to raise the child without him. Childbirth- obvious

POSEIDON= JIN - The Sea- fishing. Horses- ? Earthquakes- ? Rivers- fishing, again.

DEMETER= SUN – Agriculture- the garden. The Afterlife- ?

ATHENE= MICHAEL / KATE – Crafts- (Michael) builds things with his hands Counsel- (Kate) serves as the mediator of the group.

HEPHAISTOS= SAYID – Metalworking- mechanical skills. Fire- he started the signal fire.

ARES= BOONE? – War- I don’t know, Boone didn’t really seem to fit anywhere else and no one else seems to fit war, what do you guys think?

APHRODITE= SHANNON- Love- it seems to be what she is desperately searching for, Boone is in love with her, and she and Sayid seem to be falling in love. Sex- uses sex to get what she wants and obviously she is being portrayed as the sexiest of the female character with her bikinis and flirting.

APOLLON= CHARLIE / JACK – Music- (Charlie) obvious Prophecy- ? Healing & Disease- (Jack) obvious

ARTEMIS= WALT – Hunting- he seems really enamored with Locke and his hunting abilities. Wilderness- being on the island is like an adventure for him and if he goes up on the island then the wilderness will be the only world he really knows. Children- obvious

HERMES= SAWYER- Travel- ? Trade- obvious. Livestock- ? he has had the most run-ins with the animals of the island, shooting the polar bear and the boar who destroyed his tent and peed on his shirt.

DIONYSOS= HURLEY – Wine- ? Madness- we all assume that he was in the psych ward with Lenny. The Afterlife- ?

Any other thoughts?





Looks like what I was working towards. Boone as Ares doesn't really fit (unless you go with the use of Shang Tsu's principles in the business world). Sayid or Locke would make more sense as Ares, if they didn't already have better fits with ZEUS and HEPHAISTOS.


I'm just glad someone's taking note of my theory. I was just about to start a new thread to see if it got more attention that way.

Yes, I could see Sawyer giving himself the ultimate redemption by self-sacrifice. I just don't want him to be the one to go

I don't want that too, but what else can he do ?
His behavior is a dead end, and if he changes into a "samaritan", i think a lot of people would be disapointed, don't you ?

Well I don't blame Sawyer for not helping out Jack and his crew in a way-they tortured him unfairly -

The thing was he wouldn't be helping out Jack and Locke..he would have been helping Claire and Charlie.

Don't get me wrong. I like Sawyer. Just cause he's hot doesn't mean I'm blind to his faults.. ;)

I tend to think of him more as the 'keeper of the keys'. *

Josh Hollaway said one of the reasons Sawyer took all the stuff *was because it 'forced' people to have to come to him and he could have that little bit of power over them.

Interesting aside..I've been doing some research on obsessive compulsive behavior and I found out that many experts believe hoarding is a result of childhood trauma. My brother is a hoarder. When he was small he saw a friend killed in a horrible traffic accident. *It was so bad that I can't go into details about it...but knowing all that and knowing about Sawyer's past it seems to fit together.

I can see him doing something completely out of charcter as well...I just hope he doesn't die doing it! *:o

Sawyer is a very interesting character

Lots of people saw sawyer as a greedy, good for nothing bastard, but Sawyer helped a lot with all his "looting"

In the first episodes, we had a lot of scenes involving salvage from the wreck
The primary salvage priorities were food, clothing and shelter - the necessary things
Meanwhile Sawyer was rumaging through the fuselageand salvaged the "unnecessary things"
Some of the survivors wouldn't enter the fuselage because all of the dead bodies (i think it was Hurley who had a line about that - "Whait, in there ?" or something like that)
Jack had to enter the fuselage because he was looking for meds, but Sawyer looked like he was a regular in the fuselage

One thing is for sure, Sawyer gathered unneccessary things from the fuselage but as time will go by, those things will come in handy, and if he hadn't gather them, they would have been lost in the fire

The survivors gathered "short term" items, and Sawyer gathered "long term" items
He was reluctant to give some things away, because he knows that the supplies won't last, and if you want to see it this way, he keeps a strict inventory of the resources available to the survivors, and only will give them if they are really dearly needed, because the supply is limited

I would think that it comes from how Sawyer was raised. His parents had to pay attention to whatever money they spent. Sawyer may have been raised with the need to "hang on to stuff" (read : "watch out with your pants, mommy won't be able to buy you another one soon")

So sawyer acts like a storekeeper
And to say that Sawyer is selfish when he won't share easily, is unfair to him
because most of the things he stached would have been lost forever if he hadn't collected them in the first place. And he collected them in places where the others would not go
It is very important on the island, since Sawyer seems to be the only one to know what things are really worth.
He is the one i would rather make the custodian of my goods if i were on this island. The profit he seems to want to make out of things he "owns" is just an "added value" for him
or alternately he plays that part because this way people will only ask him to take something out of his "store" when there is a real need for them

I think he'll give much more than he has picked up, he'll give his life !
I don't want it to happen, but i keep thinking it's meant to be.

Interesting aside..I've been doing some research on obsessive compulsive behavior and I found out that many experts believe hoarding is a result of childhood trauma.

It is very true that childhood trauma triggers this type of behavior. I have seen it first hand also. My brother and sister-in-law participate in the state foster care program. When they bring foster children to family dinners, they frequently wrap food up in napkins and hide it in their pockets. I think it's a matter of distrust. The children no longer trust that the adults in their lives can/will protect them. They are in survival mode all the time. If you think about it, Sawyer lost his parents very young. It's no wonder he doesn't trust anyone. What is interesting is that we know Locke grew up in foster care, but he doesn't seem to have this issue.

shootfire

N.E.R.D. #12

What is interesting is that we know Locke grew up in foster care, but he doesn't seem to have this issue.

Or maybe he used to behave the same way but not anymore, his accident might have changed a lot of things.

I can't wait to find out about Locke's family-who was his foster mom and how did she die...must be connected to LOST somehow! :)

Or maybe he used to behave the same way but not anymore, his accident might have changed a lot of things.


That's an interesting idea given the Locke is the real Sawyer theory floating around out there.

shootfire

N.E.R.D. #12

That's an interesting idea given the Locke is the real Sawyer theory floating around out there.

I like this idea, i don't know how far this theory has been pushed, but the way he is is far away from the man we saw sitting on a wheelchair and getting bored wiith some paper work.
Perhaps he was under the Witness Protection Program ? Did someone mention that idea somewhere ?
That would explain his skills as a former hitman with, let's say, a spec ops background.... 8)

there is a whole thread on this board about the witness protection program

That reminds me of the movie "The Professional" : when you learn to be a hitman, you first learn to use a rifle, and you finish your training with knife handling, getting closer to your mark...............KNIFE HANDLING ! :o

Ok , i got carried away, sorry. :D

there is a whole thread on this board about the witness protection program

Thanks tarf. By the way, i may be mistaking, but i think i've read somewhere you're french so : salut de la part d'un autre fan français ;)

( Hi from another french fan )

That reminds me of the movie "The Professional" : when you learn to be a hitman, you first learn to use a rifle, and you finish your training with knife handling, getting closer to your mark...............KNIFE HANDLING !* :o

D'ailleurs j'ai jamais bien compris pourquoi ils avaient changé le titre, "Leon" c'etait quand meme bien plus joli :D

Bah, au moins ils n'ont pas fait un remake ! ;)

Leon is one of the best characters ever :) sorry I can't write french, just can read it......

Looks like what I was working towards. *Boone as Ares doesn't really fit (unless you go with the use of Shang Tsu's principles in the business world). *Sayid or Locke would make more sense as Ares, if they didn't already have better fits with ZEUS and HEPHAISTOS.

That is my problem exactly with the characterization. *I just can't think of where Boone would fit. *Maybe he's Hercules? * If Locke is Zeus, this makes sense. *Locke is Boone's father-figure on the island. *It still leaves us without an Ares, though. *Maybe that's Ethan. *LOL

shootfire

N.E.R.D. #12

Leon is one of the best characters ever Smiley sorry I can't write french, just can read it......

I agree, though i wouldn't meet him in a dark alley.... :-\ :D

Ok, back to the topic :

Maybe he's Hercules?

I see your point, the half-god metaphor would match his "in training" character.

Hercules-thats good. Maybe by seeing the eye of the island has made him half man/half others or something along that line. Maybe what he gave to the island was half of himself somehow.....

Maybe what he gave to the island was half of himself somehow.....

Or his stepsister ? Maybe when he saw her die it was a premonition, and now he knows that whatever he does he can't help it, and more, her death will set him free.

Locke " How did you feel when she died ? "
Boone " I felt relieved "

Crash thats interesting-and it opens the box (ha ha had to say that) that maybe there was a prepayment if you will, for the LOST crew before they ever crashed. I knew they were all metaphorically lost , prior to crashing and then being physically lost, but in addition maybe they all had to lose something tangible. Locke lost his sister as you said, also his legs. Charlie lost his brother in a sense, Jack lost his Dad, Sawyer lost his parents, Claire lost her boyfriend, Boone lost his sister, Jin and Sun lost each other, Walt lost his mother, Kate lost the man she loved, even Vincent the dog lost his original owner.......

hmmm.....

Crash thats interesting-and it opens the box (ha ha had to say that) that maybe there was a prepayment if you will, for the LOST crew before they ever crashed.

Well, that's something to chew on, eh? I think there could be other tangible losses out there besides the ones you've listed, and that we aren't privy to them yet. I don't think the fathers necessarily count, because I think all of them have lost their fathers in one way or another. Of course, that's just speculation. Still, I think there may be something to what you say. I suppose I just never thought of it as a prepayment. But hey, maybe losing their fathers was part of the prepayment. That was the thing that made me think.....hmmmmm.


shootfire

N.E.R.D. #12

What is interesting is that we know Locke grew up in foster care, but he doesn't seem to have this issue.


He did have issues, though, remember his innappropriate attachment to Helen?

He did have issues, though, remember his innappropriate attachment to Helen?


Oh yes and I think we are getting more of that soon! I am so curious about Locke I can hardly stand it. ::)