Hi Lost Fans,

There's something that's bugging me. Okay, Charlie realised that the boat waiting off the island was not Penny's boat, but why should that necessarily raise alarm bells?

The people on the boat weren't who they said they were (by the way, what did they say they were?), but so what, if you've spent more than three months on an island wouldn't you be overjoyed to make contact with anyone, whoever they are?

Am I missing anything?

Thanks.

Rainbow.

Hi Lost Fans,

There's something that's bugging me. Okay, Charlie realised that the boat waiting off the island was not Penny's boat, but why should that necessarily raise alarm bells?

The people on the boat weren't who they said they were (by the way, what did they say they were?), but so what, if you've spent more than three months on an island wouldn't you be overjoyed to make contact with anyone, whoever they are?

Am I missing anything?

Thanks.

Rainbow.

Did you forget that Ben said the people on the boat want everyone on the island dead. I'd rather be alive on a weird island than dead. Now it is coming from Ben... but Ben has told the truth about some things, while other things he's lied about.

Well, when Naomi first parachuted onto the island she was carrying with her a photo of Desmond and Penny, and though injured and delirious some of her first words (other than "I am dying" in various languages) were "Desmond".

She later said she was hired by Penny to find Desmond. Thus, when Charlie clears the signal and Penny contacts the island, and we discover that the boat doesn't belong to her and she has no idea who Naomi is, it's shocking and a bit frightening. Because it means someone or some group went to great lengths not only to find the island but also to hide their intentions and who they really were.

I mean, true, it would be good to contact the outside world - but these survivors are jaded. Even the notion of rescue isn't enough for these people to be totally and completely trusting.

I mean, true, it would be good to contact the outside world - but these survivors are jaded. Even the notion of rescue isn't enough for these people to be totally and completely trusting.

Agreed. They've been hunted and killed ever since they crashed on the island. I think the Losties are a little short on trust for people who aren't who they say they are. Better safe then sorry, at least for Locke's new followers.

I disagree (but agree with the original poster).

They could still be sent by Penny.
Penny said with "enough money and determination you could find anyone". So if she's hired multiple groups to locate Desmond, would it be at all surprising that she didn't know each member of each search team by name?

I disagree (but agree with the original poster).

They could still be sent by Penny.
Penny said with "enough money and determination you could find anyone". So if she's hired multiple groups to locate Desmond, would it be at all surprising that she didn't know each member of each search team by name?

Exactly. An operation such as this would involve many people. The fact that Penny doesn't know who Naomi is doesn't mean anything.

If you have spent such a long time on an island -- and not despite but because you have been constantly persecuted for all that time -- you would be relieved to have any sort of contact with the outside world. Who cares if they've come to rescue Desmond? Would you expect them to lift Desmond out of there and leave you behind?

The fact that Ben may have told the truth sometimes doesn't mean he should be believed at this or any other time. Do you forgo the possibility of rescue just in case a serial liar happens to be telling the truth this time? I mean, he's saying that everyone on the island will die -- yeah sure all right Ben. On the contrary, the fact that he's shown a rather unhealthy obsession with the island at all times (from the point of view of Oceanic's survivors), and uttered lie after lie, would make anything he says irrelevant.

I think that the premise for the islanders' switching their allegiance to Locke [corrected] is very weak, and this point somewhat marred my enjoyment of the episode.

Rainbow.

Simply because Ben doesn't want them to come to the Island, doesn't necessarily mean they're bad.
Well, not bad for the Losties, and yes in the previews it shows George (or whoever) saying "Rescuing you isn't our primary objective".
That makes sense, because either
i. They're after Desmond
ii (More probably) Out to exploit the Island, hence the reason why Ben doesn't want them there.

But in her conversation with Charlie, Penny said "What boat? Who's Naomi?" It would be one thing not to know about every person involved with every search effort. But to not know about an entire boat trying to make contact with an operative that has gone missing near a mysterious island? I don't buy that. IMO, these people aren't involved with Penny.

But in her conversation with Charlie, Penny said "What boat? Who's Naomi?" It would be one thing not to know about every person involved with every search effort. But to not know about an entire boat trying to make contact with an operative that has gone missing near a mysterious island? I don't buy that. IMO, these people aren't involved with Penny.

Well, to play Devil's advocate... Widmore industries, which we've seen numerous times on the Island, is run by Charles Widmore, Penny's father.
Now, if Penny is paying any significant sum of money to have Des found, it wouldn't be unlikely that her father knew about it. Again, there are two options
i. The "freighter" people are simply exploiting Penny's money. They may have said they "found" something, and now are searching for their own personal gain, under the guise of "being hired by Penny"
ii (again, more likely) Charles has told this group roughly where the Island is (For what motive, i'm not sure). To keep up with the story, he gave them a picture of Des and Penny (don't even get me started on how there are more than one picture ... ) and said "Go find Desmond" aka find the Island.

But in her conversation with Charlie, Penny said "What boat? Who's Naomi?" It would be one thing not to know about every person involved with every search effort. But to not know about an entire boat trying to make contact with an operative that has gone missing near a mysterious island? I don't buy that. IMO, these people aren't involved with Penny.

Obviously they're not involved with Penny.

What we're discussing here is what the Losties are most likely to believe given what they know, not what we know.

Again, if you're desperately trying to escape from an experience that you have barely survived, would a small matter of Penny not knowing anything about Naomi or a boat equate to "Oh my God we mustn't let them find us"? Of course not. It's more logical to believe that Charlie, in a very stressful situation, misheard what Penny had said, or that there's been some kind of mistake, or whatever. You don't just go and assume that the people on the boat are bad because of this small inconsistency.

Rainbow.

Simply because Ben doesn't want them to come to the Island, doesn't necessarily mean they're bad.
Well, not bad for the Losties, and yes in the previews it shows George (or whoever) saying "Rescuing you is our primary objective".
That makes sense, because either
i. They're after Desmond
ii (More probably) Out to exploit the Island, hence the reason why Ben doesn't want them there.

Pretty sure he says "Rescuing you isnt exactly our primary objective."
.....

Pretty sure he says "Rescuing you isnt exactly our primary objective."


Ugh. I need to type slower. Sorry, that's what I meant. Everything else I said still stands.
The conversation could easily go
"Rescuing you isn't exactly our primary objective"
(Jack) "Then what is?"
"Do you know where you are? What this Island is? What it can do?" That could be the next part of the conversation, with a "yeah, we'll take you guys home with us when we're done"

Ugh. I need to type slower. Sorry, that's what I meant. Everything else I said still stands.
The conversation could easily go
"Rescuing you isn't exactly our primary objective"
(Jack) "Then what is?"
"Do you know where you are? What this Island is? What it can do?" That could be the next part of the conversation, with a "yeah, we'll take you guys home with us when we're done"

Somebody posted a VERY interesting picture from next episode promos showing WHAT the freighties might be looking for...

POSSIBLE BIG SPOILER

BEN

Exactly. An operation such as this would involve many people. The fact that Penny doesn't know who Naomi is doesn't mean anything.

If you have spent such a long time on an island -- and not despite but because you have been constantly persecuted for all that time -- you would be relieved to have any sort of contact with the outside world. Who cares if they've come to rescue Desmond? Would you expect them to lift Desmond out of there and leave you behind?

The fact that Ben may have told the truth sometimes doesn't mean he should be believed at this or any other time. Do you forgo the possibility of rescue just in case a serial liar happens to be telling the truth this time? I mean, he's saying that everyone on the island will die -- yeah sure all right Ben. On the contrary, the fact that he's shown a rather unhealthy obsession with the island at all times (from the point of view of Oceanic's survivors), and uttered lie after lie, would make anything he says irrelevant.

I think that the premise for the islanders' switching their allegiance to Locke [corrected] is very weak, and this point somewhat marred my enjoyment of the episode.

Rainbow.

I don't think they really switched their allegiance to Locke but rather Hurley. His speech about Charlie changing his mind about the supposed rescuers was what changed many of the Losties' minds. I still think there are plenty of them that don't trust Locke, even those who followed him. Hurley might be one and that's why he's off the island now and apologizes to Jack.

I have to say I believe the freighter is bad news. I don't think it was Penny's. Someone state that Penny had never heard of Naomi and in a large scale operation like this she wouldn't have heard of everyone. This is true, but she also said, boat, what boat? If she had organized the operation she would have heard of the freighter. Even though a freighter, or should the name be freightie, was glimpsed briefly at the closing of the episode their behavior has been suspicious. The conversation between Jack and Minkowski comes to mind. Minkowski had something to say to Naomi he didn't want the losties to hear. He covered by saying that Naomi needed to readjust the settings on the satphone. But couldn't he have instructed Jack over the phone on how toreadjust the settings? I've been talked through computer upgrades over the phone. Then there is the matter of Naomi's message to the freighter didn't seem like last words but some kind of prearranged coded distress message? The way she worded that message seemed unusual. I think that given the nature of the show that the freighties won't be a monolith. The only sure thing in lost is that no group is going to agree on everything seen in the losties since day 1 and the others in season 3. I think the four freighties will be the Juliet of this season. They will show traits of good and evil that will puzzle the audience until they answer the question of the four characters allegiance. Because there are four of them some will be good and some will be bad.

Fierro, you have to stop dragging spoilers into this section now! If you want to discuss spoilers, then do so in the Spoiler- and Spoiler Theories-sections, but please stop spoiling people in this section! You've given things away more than once simply by replying to a thread... :mad:

Getting back to the OP, its a good point but if Penny does not know anything about any boat that means its not her boat, even if its a covert operation funded by Pennys father keeping something like that from a CEO in a company is impossible as the expenses are easily in the millions.

I think the big point here is that our losties dont know what the Others are all about, they have gone to tremendous lenghts to keep their island a secret and that only begs the question: a secret from whom?

Charlie, Desmond and the others on the beach doesnt hear Ben saying that everyone is going to die, but they still have plenty of reason to be mistrustfull even in the face of rescue.

So when hearing that it is not Pennys boat that means someone dropped on the island with a lie meant SPECIFICALLY for them, not for the others or for Jacob or anyone else as they would simply have gone... "who is Penny Widmore?".

Naomi was meant to infiltrate THEIR camp and call in backup with a lie, and the funny part is that she had no reason to lie. she could have simply said "Hey, im part of a science investigation crew, who are you guys ?"


-Exodus

Definitely freither is a thing which Penny should know about. She's a person who takes the matters in her own hands, so she would know what is arranged to find Desmond. In that case I can even say she should know at least the chiefs of the groups searching for him.
She does much on her own, she was at the radio station and the monitor when Charlie has connected with her. To find Desmond is her purpose now, especially since she's still recieving the proofs that he's alive (or earlier that he can be alive). I can imagine her organizing everything, contacting every group, asking/forcing them to instant reporting the progress in the action.

Charlie, Des and other Losties, especially those on the beach (remember them, how easily they believed Desmond? Only Sawyer was sceptical) had to think of the possibility that Pen doeasn't have to know everyone involved in the searching for Des (well, okey, Charlie had to less time to think of it). But probably they also thought she should know that and as Exodus said:
but they still have plenty of reason to be mistrustfull even in the face of rescue.

So when hearing that it is not Pennys boat that means someone dropped on the island with a lie meant SPECIFICALLY for them, not for the others or for Jacob or anyone else as they would simply have gone...

And most of all Naomi lied to them. "Not Penny's boat" isn't so annoying as the awareness of a lie is. Someone wrote that and I think the same: why she would lie to them as not for hide their real intentions?
She told the Losties that the flight 815 had been found and this could be the true fact from that what she knows. Because even without that the story of searching for Desmond was very probable and Losties could believe in that easily. So what this nice story was for? It could be any other boat and Losties would use it with a delight, but we know Naomi was not telling the truth, she made this story up, and this is what would be annoying me if I was on the Island.

In going along with the find815.com clues, it must be the Maxwell group, who seem to be intent on finding the "black rock", or so they say anyway. PS, I think Ben is telling the truth because he wanted his "daughter" as far away from the Losties as possible for fear of what would happen to her. I think he cares for her in some strange way, so that was what made me feel he was truthful to Jack to be weary.

When Desmond returns to the shore after Hurley does his cannonball,
Desmond says, 'These people aren't who they say they are"...
At this point does Des have any information on what these freighties
claimed to be?! In other words, who did they say they were?!
The only information he has is what he envisioned and what Charlie
wrote on his hand. Just because it is not Penny's boat, why does it mean
that this isn't part of a rescue. Couldn't more than one party be looking?!

He envisioned everything leading up to Charlie's death and then Claire
getting on a helicopter. Assuming Claire makes it on the Heli, why
is this part of the island happenings not in his vision. If Des is being 100%
truthful as per his vision then why did he not see whats playing out now?!

I do agree that these people aren't there for their rescue only as noted in
this episode, however I think that Desmond is putting to much of his faith
in those visions. Bottom line: Heli + Freighter + determination to get off the
island = possible rescue. Thus leading to finding Penny.

He just assumed Captain Penny Widmore was at the helm and
awaitng Des?!

Stop with the visions and trust your best judgment Des.

I think part of the problem is (was?) Naomi who had the Des picture and stated that was their reason for being there. When Des sees Not Penny's boat" he assumes thats means Naomi was lying abiut everything?