How was Ben able to get someone on the freighter? How have they been communicating? I don't doubt it, but I'm thinking through the logistics.

Just awesome that Ben is a step ahead of the freighter crew . . .

Ok, quick thought here....
So I just started wondering why it was that Penny would have been the first person that came across the monitor to Charlie in the Looking Glass. I now wonder if Penny actually is on that freighter and if she's really Ben's "man" on the boat..... Perhaps with all that Ben knows he doesn't know enough about her due to her deep pockets and ability to cover up her true identity. Maybe she's just been biding her time until she can actually get past the island's defenses and to it somehow...

It could be Michael.

Well, just speculating, I'll spoiler it even though I'm gathering this from the opening credits, so its not a spoiler definitively:

Harold's name has been with the regulars in the credits the past two weeks, so I'm guessing its Micheal. Plus, Locke bringing up Walt. Maybe they're back and are working for Ben now. That's what I'd say.

Penny looked surprised when Charlie mentioned the freighter offshore, so I don't think she's with them. I think Ben's man on the freighter could be Michael or Walt. When he gave them the coordinates to find rescue, do you think he led them to the freighter? Ben's a smart man and probably knew of the freighter and used Michael/Walt to his benefit.

Miles did call someone named Regina, who told him that Minkowski (sp.?) couldn't come to the phone.

I like the Michael idea as well.

Penny looked surprised when Charlie mentioned the freighter offshore, so I don't think she's with them. I think Ben's man on the freighter could be Michael or Walt. When he gave them the coordinates to find rescue, do you think he led them to the freighter? Ben's a smart man and probably knew of the freighter and used Michael/Walt to his benefit.

I love it. That's a very excellent possibility and most likely very probable for what did happen... and if that's the case (sorry, going off on a separate tangent now), do you think that people on the island age much slower than elsewhere and that's how they'll explain Walt's tremendous growth spurt? I know that this has been discussed on here for years, but that's just more possible evidence toward it if that is the case....

Or, as I mentioned in another thread, perhaps Walt is dead and Locke is just able to speak to his spirit as Ben has been able to and as Miles is able to...

I think my post got lost in the thread merge? Or maybe it will reappear.

Anyway, I agree with the Michael spec. It makes the most sense of characters we have seen before - I guess in that case it is the only choice!

I'm also interested in how the person communicated with Ben, considering that all technology was down or jammed. Also, .... darn, can't remember my last point from the previous post! I'll try to remember.

It could be Michael.That would be a very interesting twist. It would also be good to see him again.

I love it. That's a very excellent possibility and most likely very probable for what did happen... and if that's the case (sorry, going off on a separate tangent now), do you think that people on the island age much slower than elsewhere and that's how they'll explain Walt's tremendous growth spurt? I know that this has been discussed on here for years, but that's just more possible evidence toward it if that is the case....

Or, as I mentioned in another thread, perhaps Walt is dead and Locke is just able to speak to his spirit as Ben has been able to and as Miles is able to...

I still don't know about Walt's growth. I mean if he or Michael is Ben's insider (and thus off the island), wouldn't Michael go through a growth spurt too? And we know some Losties eventually get off the island (via flashforwards), but I didn't notice any growth spurt. I don't think just being off the island would make anyone grow faster. I'm clueless as to Walt's growth spurt.

Maybe it's Minkowski and that's why he can't come to the phone - they're on to him. Or it could be someone we haven't met yet.

The first thing that came to my mind is Michael. It makes sense. And it explains why his name is in the opening credits :)

Michael or Walt... I think that's the most plausible, but I am not sure why either of them would be telling Ben any information considering what he did to both of them.

I'm gonna go with it being Michael or Walt also. We know they both spent time around Ben and the Others, and they recently left the island.

I still don't know about Walt's growth. I mean if he or Michael is Ben's insider (and thus off the island), wouldn't Michael go through a growth spurt too? And we know some Losties eventually get off the island (via flashforwards), but I didn't notice any growth spurt. I don't think just being off the island would make anyone grow faster. I'm clueless as to Walt's growth spurt.


I don't expect to see a growth spurt in an adult off the island. Perhaps an AGE spurt. Perhaps aging a bit faster. Walt would grow taller due to his age and normal growth occurances, which would happen if he was on the island, but at a slower rate.

How much aging/growing occurs would be based on how much time difference there might be. If there is a time difference.

D/

Hmm i like the idea of it being Michael and/or Walt...that'll be interesting.
Also, Harold did say in a tv interview that he was coming back this season...

Minkowski is Ben's stoogie, that's why he couldn't come to the phone.

This was such a great twist! I had no idea who Ben was talking about, but after checking this thread Michael makes perfect sense.

I actually thought Ben was just messing with them by saying someone was on the boat and that he was actually reading their minds or something since we are apparently establishing that the new people have abilities, maybe they are after Ben because he has an ability too.

The first name that popped into my head was Michael.

It is very possible it is Michael. When Ben gave Michael the coordinates when he got on the boat, maybe he gave Michael the coordinates for the freighter. Maybe Michael doesn't know. Ben only told him to follow the coordinates and he would find rescue... Will just have to wait and see what happens.

Here is my crazy theory...it's Richard Alpert. Ben knew they were coming, Alpert was supposed to head to "the ruins" I'm not sure if that is code or not, but I have a feeling he is sort of a double agent working for Ben and for whoever is on the boat. Maybe that's why his feelings towards Ben were fleeting last season. Maybe the boat crowd has swayed his opinion. I think somehow there is still definitely a way off the island, the submarine was meaningless. Richard is on the freighter.

What part of no spoilers do you all not understand? Next spoiler gets the thread closed.

I actually thought Ben was just messing with them by saying someone was on the boat and that he was actually reading their minds or something since we are apparently establishing that the new people have abilities, maybe they are after Ben because he has an ability too.

Okay, you just boggled my mind, Karri. This had never even crossed my mind, but it could totally fit! It woud certainly help to explain why Ben know so much about all of the survivors! The only thing it doesn't explain is how he knew the freighties were bad news, before they arrived on the island. Unless, he can read minds from a distance.

I really think the whole Walt is taller thing is just a little joke. The actor who plays Walt is taller because he has aged in real life. That's one of the reasons they had to get Walt off the show because at his age he is growing and changing a lot. That would make no sense to watch Walt age 3 years when they've not even been there 4 months. I don't know who Ben's man is on the boat, but judging from the credits I think I know who it is and it's not a returning actor. I could be totally wrong though.

I think it's going to Micheal because he was let into a "freighter ship route" when he left on the boat. Maybe it's Walt? Communicating telepathically?

I love the idea of Ben's man being Michael. (Playing it safe with spoiler font.) As for Walt being taller and older ... maybe it's Future Walt and not a matter of rapid age progression.

Tiewashere, I love your idea about Ben's man being Walt communicating telepathically. I think that makes even more sense than it being Michael.

I just don't see how Michael would be "working " for Ben, he certainly wasn't Ben's buddy. He just did all those things to get Walt off the island, he wasn't in cahoots with Ben. I think his feelings for Ben are the same as the other Losties.

It could be Michael.

I think so. At the end of Season 2, Michael is given coordinates to the freighter most likely.

I think there was more to the deal between Ben and himself that we know of.

Perhaps get some info on that freighter.. If were to assume that Walt was there too, could he have sent John and Ben through some magical island means (esp or vision) the scoop about the freighter people?!

Don't the Other's still have a boat? If so, Ben could have easily have directed a group to the freighter in the same way he gave Michael directions to escape the island.

I don't know if it is Micheal. Why would Micheal help Ben? How would he communicate with Ben?

I think Ben may have someone on the boat but it's not Michael.............why would he help. He wanted away from there with Walt. Not to be sailing around looking for the island. The one I would suspect would be Regina whoever she is. When Ben says a man on the boat it could just be a generality. That would explain why the captain could come to the phone because she did not want that communication to come through. Remember the dedicated girls in the looking glass hatch were there for Ben and no one knew. Mikail thought they were in Canada.

It could be Michael. That would be a cool reveal!

It must be Michael. Ben has Walt to keep Michael helping him. IMO.

I think Michael's too obvious of a choice, although when he left by boat Ben did give him the ambigous "you'll find rescue" line. But maybe it is him and the twist lies in the reason he and/or Walt are helping Ben.

It's...
Michael...
In a recent episode of Jay and Jack's podcast they have a segment from Ryan of the Transmission podcast. One of the tidbits he tells about/shows is a photo of Michael standing on the deck of a large freighter... Either he's Ben's man, or he was picked up by the freighter..

Why would Michael knowingly help Ben? I put in knowingly because maybe Ben's reading his mind or something ;)

At any rate, just because his name has been in the credits doesn't mean anything more than the fact that he is going to appear in an episode. Remember, Niki and Pablo were credited at least 2 episodes before they appeared in the series.

My reason for believing it's Michael is because how unsurprised they were (especially Miles) that there were survivors from 815. If they had indeed rescued Michael on the boat a month earlier, they would have already been through the shock of "really?! there are survivors??" Why would Michael help Ben? Well...the boat that picked up Michael (the freighter) is headed back to the island to get Ben. Great, thinks Michael, "I just got off that island and now I have to go back?" SO maybe he helps Ben to ruin the chances of him having to go back and help Ben's guys win their little war with the Freighter people.

Hey i think you are all right just a little. My guess is Michael is the one warning everyone about Ben. When Mike left all he knew was Ben made him kill someone and the others kidnapped and killed the losties.

I can not explane yet how he got a photo of him but my best guess is one of the others (julite) gave it to him to show the outside world who the bad guy is. Ben found out that Mike ws resued and spilled the beans on him from his source (the girl on the phone).

After sening the flash back it is ovious that the 4 people are not theire to kill the Losties.

I don't know if it is Micheal. Why would Micheal help Ben? How would he communicate with Ben?

I totally think it's Michael. And he's communicating with Ben by harnessing Walt's abilities. That would also mean Walt is on the freighter. With the Looking Glass station jammed and Mikhail's hideway blown to smithereens, extra sensory abilities may be the only way to communicate between the island and the outside world.

Let's suppose that the writers might have thrown us a slight curve with the "I have a man on the boat" comment. (They wouldn't do that, would they?:rolleyes:) Let's consider the following points:


For Ben to know the information he did about the freighter team (and to exclude such deus-ex-machina'ish story devices as telepathy and mind reading...) Ben would have to have an information source, either on the boat, or on the mainland.
Communication with Ben from the boat would be a far greater problem than communication with Ben from the mainland.
Since the freighter team can communicate with the boat, Ben's comment would immediately compromise his spy there, if there was a spy...
Even under the pressure he was under, Ben would likely have tried to protect his spy on the boat by claiming he had a spy on the mainland. This could have provided the same information he gave...
IF he had a spy on the mainland, we'd expect him to protect that person by claiming he had a spy on the boat.
IF there had been a spy on the mainland, the information about the coming freighter team might easily have been passed to Ben through Mikhail, back when communication with the mainland was still happening, and before the jamming went up. In fact, the jamming may just have been initiated _precisely_because_ Ben got the word that a team was about to be sent to abduct him.
Getting a spy _somewhere_ in Abbadon's organization would be much easier than getting one specifically assigned to the boat.
Ben is not famous for telling the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth...Considering all these things, I would propose the possibility that Ben may NOT have a spy on the boat, but that he does have a spy somewhere...

If Walt is involved how does that work? The actor playing Walt has noticeably aged since the end of Season 2. At this point it really doesn't seem like time is moving differently off the island. So if it is Walt on the boat, then he's been hanging out there for two years or just got taller and a deeper voice really quick? Remember, on the show it wasn't even 2 months ago that Michael and Walt left.

If Walt is involved how does that work? The actor playing Walt has noticeably aged since the end of Season 2. At this point it really doesn't seem like time is moving differently off the island. So if it is Walt on the boat, then he's been hanging out there for two years or just got taller and a deeper voice really quick? Remember, on the show it wasn't even 2 months ago that Michael and Walt left.

I'm still so in love with the Michael on the freighter and he and Ben using Walt to communicate that I'll throw in another idea. Maybe Michael and Walt did get back to the "real" world. They went back and started living a new life. They realized that they were confirmed dead. After a time, Ben sent Alpert or another amazingly hot and sinister flunky to coerce/threaten/bribe, Michael and Walt to come back. Maybe things weren't going so hot for the father and son once they got back to the mainland. Maybe they felt guilty about leaving their fellow castaways and thought this was a way to save them. Or maybe Ben threatened to expose them and/or kill them if they didn't aid him.

I definitely subscribe to the theory that Michael is on the freighter. However, I find it more likely that Walt is Ben's "man on the boat". I am not sure how comfortable the writers will be with giving him alot of screen-time with the growthspurt, but I would think he could be delivering messages to Ben this whole time...much like he did to John. After the raft fire we know he never wanted to leave, so his motivation could be protecting the island. I always felt his character wasted after Ben let them leave so easily, so I will be glad if he ends up being a pivital part from here on out. Same way I feel about Desmond...if you are going to give someone a supernatural ability, they better be in it for the long-haul.

So yeah, Michael and Walt maybe prisioners, or simply guests, on the freighter, but they know too much about the Losties ("These are good people") thanks to Michael, and Ben knows too much about the "rescue" party, thanks to Walt.

as far as walt being older and taller, TPTB have said REPEATEDLY that they have, and have had from the beginning, a way to explain walt's growth in the context of the story. since we're seeing obvious signs of tme-travel everywhere, from FBYE to the polar bear fossil in the desert, it seems to me that this is how they are going to explain walt's changes. either that, or he is in the future using his telepathic abilities to communicate with Locke in the past, maybe to change something that happened.

Here's a another wacked out thought. Maybe Walt isn't consciously helping Ben. Perhaps one of Walt's abilities is reading minds. Somehow, Ben has figured out how to tap into Walt's mind (through conditioning in Room 23?). So Walt, while on the freighter, is reading the minds of those on board - either on purpose or automatically (like Smokey?) - and then Ben can tap into Walt's mind somehow to get the info. Possibly when Walt sleeps or something?

as far as walt being older and taller, TPTB have said REPEATEDLY that they have, and have had from the beginning, a way to explain walt's growth in the context of the story. since we're seeing obvious signs of tme-travel everywhere, from FBYE to the polar bear fossil in the desert, it seems to me that this is how they are going to explain walt's changes. either that, or he is in the future using his telepathic abilities to communicate with Locke in the past, maybe to change something that happened.

I could buy the theory that Walt is communicating from the future, with Locke anyway. I can't see him giving Ben lots of info but who knows. I don't get how a polar bear from Hydra Station being in Tunisia is proof of time travel though?

to the polar bear fossil in the desert

Fossils are rock, scraped from other rock. What we saw were bones in dirt. Not all that old...

Polar Bear was probably wearing a Dharma time travel collar. Rubbed up against a tree and accidentally sent himself a few million years back in the past. :P

But seriously, I like the Walt + Time-Travel idea. I am sure John mentioning that Walt was taller was more significant than just a joke. Very interesting.

Fossils are rock, scraped from other rock. What we saw were bones in dirt. Not all that old...

That's what makes it more interesting than plain old time travel. For me the big question was why did Dharma take a polar bear from Hydra station to Tunisia and how long ago was this?

What if Ben's man was one of the one's who parachuted onto the Island. It would make sense since his man would want to be with the ones who were searching for him to be sure they didn't find him. Or to get his back if they did find him. Could it be one of the new four? I know this doesn't mean anything, but the name Miles Strom reminds me of the name Ethan Rom.

That's what makes it more interesting than plain old time travel. For me the big question was why did Dharma take a polar bear from Hydra station to Tunisia and how long ago was this?

Perhaps they didn't intend for the polar bear to tend up in Tunisia. They were experimenting with a lot of things that they couldn't wholly predict or control.

I am with Mark Kligman, I think it is Richard. He is a key person to the entire story and we have seen him off the Island. He and Ben are tight and Ben has trusted him from their first encounter.
100%
I agree with Mark Kligman, I think Richard is on the boat. He and Ben go back to when Ben was a young boy and I think Ben trusts him.

That's what makes it more interesting than plain old time travel. For me the big question was why did Dharma take a polar bear from Hydra station to Tunisia and how long ago was this?

Perhaps we might turn your question around. Was Dharma testing their new-and-improved heat-resistant polar bears in Tunisia before shipping them to the Hydra Station? This would make sense, as Polar bears will normally die in the island climate, and they'd want to make sure their experiments worked before going through the bother and expense of shipping live (and dangerous!) animals...

Note also that the bones were clean and fresh, as was the collar. They weren't all that old. It had more the suggestion of an animal that _didn't_ survive the heat it was being tested with being buried because I'd imagine it was starting to stink...

It could be Michael.

definitely what I thought

It could be Michael.


Woah! I never thought of that!!!!!
It makes perfect sense!

How was Ben able to get someone on the freighter? How have they been communicating? I don't doubt it, but I'm thinking through the logistics.

Just awesome that Ben is a step ahead of the freighter crew . . .


It sure seems that way. My personal guess is Eyeline McGee aka Richard Alpert. :eek2:

It also could be Michael, as some have suggested. Could Walt be with him then and possibly projecting himself on the island to warn Locke and the other Losties about the potential danger? He did appear other times, like to Shannon in the jungle.

My guess is that it's Michael. The coordinates that he gave to Michael didn't take him home but to the freighter. Ben's known all along that they were coming ... though, I'd guess, hoping they didn't make it. So, just in case, he used Michael as a plant. I would even wager to guess that Michael knew about it all along but played along with what Ben was telling him at the dock for Walt's sake.

I don't think it's Richard Alpert. We saw him on the island after the submarine was blown up, so how did he get off? Unless there is some other form of transportation we don't know about that's still working?

I think Ben did some investigating and found out the freighter was there (way before the sub was blown up) and sent Michael and Walt so Michael can be his spy. Remember, Ben was very strict of who he would let off the island, and it was a shock that he even let Michael and Walt go. He was so eager to let him go because there was a greater purpose. It kind of reminds me of the time when he finally let Alex go with him on a trek during TTLG.

I like the Michael idea, but what would be his motivation? If he led the freighter back to the island (presumably to rescue everyone), that would also bring the people who want to get Ben. So, Ben wouldn't want Michael to come back, right? And if he didn't want him to come back, why would he send him to the freighter in the first place?

I think it's Charlotte.
She didn't react to seeing Ben.
Ben shot her, knowing she had on a vest, to throw off suspissions.
She expected to see the DHARMA collar on the polar bear, because she was a field agent verifing that Ben's Time Machine worked. (The Poalr Bear was a test subject)
Ben said "man" to throw them off the scent.

It could be Michael.


Good guess! Michael was last seen with a little boat headed away from the island. It's
not unreasonable to suspect that they found him at sea and picked him up. It might
also explain the vision Locke had of Walt telling him that the people on the freighter are
bad. Walt would know that if he was on the freighter, too.
100%
I just don't see how Michael would be "working " for Ben, he certainly wasn't Ben's buddy. He just did all those things to get Walt off the island, he wasn't in cahoots with Ben. I think his feelings for Ben are the same as the other Losties.


Ben has been known to stretch the truth a little. He didn't say he had someone working
for him. He said "I have a man on the boat". If the freighter people are bad news and
Walt has figured this out then Ben is counting on his enemy's enemy being his friend.
I'm sure it freaked the freighter people out a lot more the way Ben put it. Now they are
going to start doubting each other.

I think it's Charlotte.
She didn't react to seeing Ben.
Ben shot her, knowing she had on a vest, to throw off suspissions.
She expected to see the DHARMA collar on the polar bear, because she was a field agent verifing that Ben's Time Machine worked. (The Poalr Bear was a test subject)
Ben said "man" to throw them off the scent.
I agree.
And besides all that, she was very surprised when she saw Claire with Aaron, as if she knew about what happens to pregnant woman on the island.

Miles did call someone named Regina, who told him that Minkowski (sp.?) couldn't come to the phone.

I like the Michael idea as well.


Maybe when he said, "man", it was to throw us off.
Maybe it's a woman.
Maybe Regina killed Minkowski couldn't come to the phone ala Kate and Naomi.

I think it's Charlotte.
She didn't react to seeing Ben.
Ben shot her, knowing she had on a vest, to throw off suspissions.
She expected to see the DHARMA collar on the polar bear, because she was a field agent verifing that Ben's Time Machine worked. (The Poalr Bear was a test subject)
Ben said "man" to throw them off the scent.


Not a bad idea as well. You least expect the person who was just shot. He knew she
would be wearing a vest. He might also be trying to cast suspicion on Michael (who
I still think *is* on the freighter).

Ok, quick thought here....
So I just started wondering why it was that Penny would have been the first person that came across the monitor to Charlie in the Looking Glass. I now wonder if Penny actually is on that freighter and if she's really Ben's "man" on the boat..... Perhaps with all that Ben knows he doesn't know enough about her due to her deep pockets and ability to cover up her true identity. Maybe she's just been biding her time until she can actually get past the island's defenses and to it somehow...

hmmmm.. Not. Penny's. Boat.

;)

Charlie's death really would be for nothing if Penny were on that boat.

Let's suppose that the writers might have thrown us a slight curve with the "I have a man on the boat" comment. (They wouldn't do that, would they?:rolleyes:) Let's consider the following points:

For Ben to know the information he did about the freighter team (and to exclude such deus-ex-machina'ish story devices as telepathy and mind reading...) Ben would have to have an information source, either on the boat, or on the mainland.
Communication with Ben from the boat would be a far greater problem than communication with Ben from the mainland.
Since the freighter team can communicate with the boat, Ben's comment would immediately compromise his spy there, if there was a spy...
Even under the pressure he was under, Ben would likely have tried to protect his spy on the boat by claiming he had a spy on the mainland. This could have provided the same information he gave...
IF he had a spy on the mainland, we'd expect him to protect that person by claiming he had a spy on the boat.
IF there had been a spy on the mainland, the information about the coming freighter team might easily have been passed to Ben through Mikhail, back when communication with the mainland was still happening, and before the jamming went up. In fact, the jamming may just have been initiated _precisely_because_ Ben got the word that a team was about to be sent to abduct him.
Getting a spy _somewhere_ in Abbadon's organization would be much easier than getting one specifically assigned to the boat.
Ben is not famous for telling the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth...Considering all these things, I would propose the possibility that Ben may NOT have a spy on the boat, but that he does have a spy somewhere...

Thank you for saying what I have been thinking all along. I do however have an idea for who the spy might be:


Ben's childhood friend, Ann. There has been a lot of talk about whether or not she was killed during the purge. This would be a good explanation of what happened to her. He may have been able to save her by having her work off the island.

Maybe Regina killed Minkowski couldn't come to the phone ala Kate and Naomi.

I really like this idea! Miles even said it was important but she still wouldn't let him speak with Minkowski. Plus, this would let the Losties stay unharmed if the Oceanic 6 go to the freighter via helicopter. If Minkowski was there once the Oceanic 6 leave the island and land on the freighter, he'd probably kill them all.

Ben states he has someone on the freighter, I have no idea how he could know they were coming and then palce someone on there to spy and transmit date to him but I suspect we have a mole playing both sides of the fence here like in the cold war. After all someone had to be on the Island to take a photo of Ben. I wouldn't be suprised to learn that someone is playing both sides. Sort of like the spook work Inman used to do.

I for one do not think that the photo of Benwas taken on-island.

I think it's Charlotte.
She didn't react to seeing Ben.
Ben shot her, knowing she had on a vest, to throw off suspissions.
She expected to see the DHARMA collar on the polar bear, because she was a field agent verifing that Ben's Time Machine worked. (The Poalr Bear was a test subject)
Ben said "man" to throw them off the scent.


I agree.
And besides all that, she was very surprised when she saw Claire with Aaron, as if she knew about what happens to pregnant woman on the island.

This makes alot of sense, great idea! Explains a few things.

I'm thinking maybe this person on the boat is someone we have not met yet but that has transported data to Ben somehow before communications went down. I think it's possible that these boaties found out he was playing both sides. Miles seemed really intense when confronting Juliet so this man on the boat can't be in a good spot right now if he was caught being a spy. More questions would then arise regarding how Ben knows this man, how he was planted on the boat, how he was communicating, how he got caught communicating...clearly the mole may have been acting against the boaties.

Having relooked at the photo I think I might gree with you. It seems very Mid-town office not Island.

Ok, I honestly thing Ben is feeding everyone a load of crap. From day 1 Ben has known a LOT of information about people…names…background…etc. I think because of Ben’s ability to communicate with the island/Jacob, he has the ability to know anything about anyone, and their intentions – should the island deem it necessary. It’s obvious that the island can get inside anyone’s head, pull out information and mess with them. The island obviously sees this group of people as a threat, and has been feeding Ben the red alert sign (probably Locke as well!).

So I think it’s a pretty logical line of thinking that Ben knows all this because of the island. Ben isn’t going to tell ANYone that. But he does like to f**k with people. So why not create turmoil on this freighter of people…send word back that someone is a spy…and then they all turn on each other.

I can definitely see Michael and Walt chilling on the freighter, and Ben probably knows this. But I highly doubt that Ben and Walt are mind melding. The island is probably communicating with Walt on the ship, and then the island is feeding info to Ben.

So when do we get to see a manifestation of Naomi walking around and messing with people now that she's dead?

OH! And another thing. how the HELL are 6 people going to fit on that chopper?? Especially Hurley?? 4 people? -That's very possible..They could possibly limp to the freighter with Hurley in tow...that would mean Walt and Michael are on the boat...making 6. I wonder who has copter flight experience...Sayid? Patchie? Interesting to think about...

Perhaps you're right and we have seen the mole before, wednesd7777

What if Michael is the mole? What if Michael was given instructions by Ben to be taken aboard the freighter, and to then go to work for Ben. It wouldn't seem to fit with Michael's reaction at the end of season 2 ("Who are you people?"), or the fact that Ben seemed to be genuine in offering Michael a compass bearing towards rescue. But what if the only way to truly save Walt would be to continue to do what Ben asks? Just a thought. Harold Perrineau has been credited in past two episodes, without actually appearing. Michael is obviously still out there somewhere.

I don't think it's Richard Alpert. We saw him on the island after the submarine was blown up, so how did he get off? Unless there is some other form of transportation we don't know about that's still working?

I think Ben did some investigating and found out the freighter was there (way before the sub was blown up) and sent Michael and Walt so Michael can be his spy. Remember, Ben was very strict of who he would let off the island, and it was a shock that he even let Michael and Walt go. He was so eager to let him go because there was a greater purpose. It kind of reminds me of the time when he finally let Alex go with him on a trek during TTLG.
I don't think it's Richard either (though I'd love it if it were ... I miss Nestor). But Ben does still have Desmond's boat so that's one way to get them off the island and to the freighter.
Ok, I honestly thing Ben is feeding everyone a load of crap. From day 1 Ben has known a LOT of information about people…names…background…etc. I think because of Ben’s ability to communicate with the island/Jacob, he has the ability to know anything about anyone, and their intentions – should the island deem it necessary. It’s obvious that the island can get inside anyone’s head, pull out information and mess with them. The island obviously sees this group of people as a threat, and has been feeding Ben the red alert sign (probably Locke as well!).

So I think it’s a pretty logical line of thinking that Ben knows all this because of the island. Ben isn’t going to tell ANYone that. But he does like to f**k with people. So why not create turmoil on this freighter of people…send word back that someone is a spy…and then they all turn on each other.

I can definitely see Michael and Walt chilling on the freighter, and Ben probably knows this. But I highly doubt that Ben and Walt are mind melding. The island is probably communicating with Walt on the ship, and then the island is feeding info to Ben.

So when do we get to see a manifestation of Naomi walking around and messing with people now that she's dead?

OH! And another thing. how the HELL are 6 people going to fit on that chopper?? Especially Hurley?? 4 people? -That's very possible..They could possibly limp to the freighter with Hurley in tow...that would mean Walt and Michael are on the boat...making 6. I wonder who has copter flight experience...Sayid? Patchie? Interesting to think about...That works, too! Since Michael has already done the traitor-thing, it makes sense that Ben would put the blame on him and who's going to believe he's not working for Ben *again*? It also might explain the coffin and why Kate didn't want to go to the funeral. Once bitten, twice shy. He did the traitor-thing once and if it's made to look like he's done it again ... well, it makes perfect sense that she'd not want to go to his funeral.

As for the chopper ... Frank did say that he'd make a second run to come back for Naomi so why not make a few to take the survivors back to the ship?

They said Minkowski's name was GEORGE...Did I imagine that? And, I thought the way they were pronouncing it, the name was MANkowski instead of MINkowski...

...now why does the name GEORGE MANKOWSKI sound familiar to me?

I like the MICHAEL/WALT idea, and to be honest, I hadn't even thought of it! DUH! they might have Walt and Michael's being forced to do Ben's dirty work. Maybe that's an idea as to why...

PEACE--Kath

Just posted this on the Dual Moles thread. Hadn't come across this thread. Damn he lack of search function! :)

What if Michael is the mole? What if Michael was given instructions by Ben to be taken aboard the freighter, and to then go to work for Ben. It wouldn't seem to fit with Michael's reaction at the end of season 2 ("Who are you people?"), or the fact that Ben seemed to be genuine in offering Michael a compass bearing toward rescue, but Ben has been a conniving sod from the start. What if the only way to truly save Walt would be to continue to do what Ben asks? Just a thought. Harold Perrineau has been credited in past two episodes, without actually appearing. Michael is obviously still out there somewhere.

Michael may well know more than us about Ben. He could well be complicit with Ben's plans.

I like the idea that the compass bearing Ben gave Michael took him to the freighter. I always thought the way he worded what he said in that scene ("Follow that compass bearing and you will find rescue.") would be significant, like he wasn't lying, but he actually meant something different to what was being implied. Maybe the boat people did rescue him, but then Ben got in contact with him somehow and blackmailed him into working for him? Maybe he planted a walkie or something on him and radioed him when he was on the boat, or did a similar con to when he made Sawyer think his heart would explode if his heart rate got too high.

I also have a feeling that Minkowski's absence when Miles radioed him was significant. The way that Regina said "he's busy" (or something to that effect) pretty forcefully but didn't elaborate at all makes me think something is coming up to explain that.

They said Minkowski's name was GEORGE...Did I imagine that? And, I thought the way they were pronouncing it, the name was MANkowski instead of MINkowski...

...now why does the name GEORGE MANKOWSKI sound familiar to me?

I like the MICHAEL/WALT idea, and to be honest, I hadn't even thought of it! DUH! they might have Walt and Michael's being forced to do Ben's dirty work. Maybe that's an idea as to why...

PEACE--KathIt may have sounded like MANkowski but it is MINkowski (http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&ct=res&cd=2&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.lostpedia.com%2Fwiki%2FMinkow ski&ei=LcSsR767BqDApgT1nKimAw&usg=AFQjCNFSeRYCGIS5tcg3MzKn9ucZ01DkAQ&sig2=nD05i09jAXFlu0zTDKfNaQ). (WARNING: I didn't read this link so I don't know if it contains any spoilers.)

Every time I hear them say George Minkowski (sp.) I keep thinking of Mike Witowski from Monster's Inc. (I have a 3 year old). SO I am expecting the freighter phone to be manned by a small green alien with one large eye and Billy Crystal's voice....

I think that Ben's "man" on the boat is Michael and Walt. Walt does have powers that enable him to appear in places that he shouldn't be. And maybe Michael is being manipulated by Ben.

It could also be Regina.

Here's the exact words from the script when Ben was sending Michael & Walt off on the boat:

===========
[We see Gale and Michael at the pier.]

GALE: I'm not happy about the arrangement that was made with you Michael, but we got more than we bargained for when Walt joined us, so I suppose this is what's best. And you let me go, set me free -- you lived up to your word. We live up to our word, too. Do you know how to drive a boat?

MICHAEL: Yeah, I can drive a boat.

GALE: Good, then you're going to take this boat and follow a compass bearing of 325, and if you do that exactly, you and your son will find rescue.

MICHAEL: That's it? I follow the bearing and me and my son get rescued?

GALE: Yes.

MICHAEL: How do you know I won't tell people about where I was?

GALE: Maybe you will, maybe you won't. But it won't matter. Once you leave, you'll never be able to get back here. And my hunch is you won't say a word to anybody because if you do, people will find out what you did to get your son back.

MICHAEL: My friends -- I was promised you wouldn't hurt them.

GALE: A deal's a deal.

MICHAEL: Who are you people?

GALE: We're the good guys, Michael. Alright, she's all yours.

MICHAEL: What? What, am I stupid? Where's my son?

GALE: Walt's inside.

[Michael runs to the boat.]

GALE: Bon voyage, Michael.

MICHAEL: Walt!

WALT: Dad! Dad!

MICHAEL: Come here, come here [they hug]. You okay?

WALT: Yeah.

MICHAEL: You sure? Okay, I've got you now. It's going to be okay now. We're going home, Walt. We are going home.
===============

I like the idea that the compass bearing Ben gave Michael took him to the freighter. I always thought the way he worded what he said in that scene ("Follow that compass bearing and you will find rescue.") would be significant, like he wasn't lying, but he actually meant something different to what was being implied. Maybe the boat people did rescue him, but then Ben got in contact with him somehow and blackmailed him into working for him? Maybe he planted a walkie or something on him and radioed him when he was on the boat, or did a similar con to when he made Sawyer think his heart would explode if his heart rate got too high.

I also have a feeling that Minkowski's absence when Miles radioed him was significant. The way that Regina said "he's busy" (or something to that effect) pretty forcefully but didn't elaborate at all makes me think something is coming up to explain that.
Both of those sound like pretty good possabilities to me. I've been thinking since I first heard about the cast for this season that it isn't a coincidence that Micheal comes back to to the show at the same time to frieghter arrives.

I also started to wonder as soon as "Regina" said Minkowski couldn't come to the phone. Both because of how vague "Regina" was, and because it's seems kinda weird to me that George(?) would pick that moment to not be able to come to the phone. I know if I were in his position I wouldn't let that phone out of my site.

I like the thought about Ben finding out about the freighter, and giving Michael the exact location of it. Seems to fit very well. Ben's priority was never to "help" Michael & Walt get rescued. It was just the unfortunate result of needing to get Walt on that boat.

I really think that the mole is Walt. Michael has never had any sort of abilities. But Walt on the other hand, has a definite tie to the island..and can communicate with it in his own way.

So once again Ben is the master manipulator. I also like the thought that Walt doesn't even KNOW he's the mole. Just his presence on the boat allows for information to be passed from Walt to the Island/Jacob...and from the Island/jacob to Ben.

Here's the exact words from the script when Ben was sending Michael & Walt off on the boat:

Thanks, booyah.

Would you therefore say that it's less likely that Michael's the mole, and that it's Walt? Or is it somebody else?

No prob - here's the location of the scripts FYI:
http://www.lost-tv.com/transcripts/

And in response to your question, see my post at the end of page 8... at this point, the more i think about it, I think it's Walt.

Why couldn't it be both of them? Michael is sneaking around on the boat, doing all of the dirty work while unbeknownst to them, Walt is unintentially sending psychic "reports" back to the Island. Maybe that's what they were doing to Walt while they were holding him captive, strengthening his connection to the Island, just in case they needed him for something like this.

Thanks, booyah. I ususally go to LostPedia for the transcripts. I didn't catch your post on page 8 (I have now) because I think we posted at pretty much the same time :)

I think the script goes to show what I feared in my earlier post about 'Michael the Mole' not fitting with Michael's reaction to Ben in that scene. He was the obvious starting point I suppose, but I do like the talk of Walt being the mole.

Wow, nice work with the Michael idea, guys. That never even crossed my mind, but it's the perfect theory. It makes total sense. However, I don't think Walt is involved, just because we've been hearing for a while now that Harold would be returning, but nothing about MDK. So I dunno.

Miles did call someone named Regina, who told him that Minkowski (sp.?) couldn't come to the phone.

Minkowski would be the one also referred to as "George", right? I definitely think there was some significance to his not being available to speak to Miles... Possibly pertaining to Ben's man. However, it appears to me that Naomi and Co. did NOT know that Ben had a plant on their freighter (that would defeat the purpose of having a spy), so it may not be that George was dealing with them at that time, unless he found out, which could definitely cause some issues.

I still don't know about Walt's growth. I mean if he or Michael is Ben's insider (and thus off the island), wouldn't Michael go through a growth spurt too? And we know some Losties eventually get off the island (via flashforwards), but I didn't notice any growth spurt. I don't think just being off the island would make anyone grow faster. I'm clueless as to Walt's growth spurt.

I always just assumed that it was because MDK got... Older and consequently, taller. What is he now, like 19? :biggrin:

Ben didn't give Micheal the coordinates to get to the ship

remember Ben was shocked when he found out that the ship was close to the island

After sening the flash back it is ovious that the 4 people are not theire to kill the Losties.

That may very well be true but it doesn't mean that they'll actually take any Losties back to civilization if they can't acquire Ben first (and they may have their own agenda for wanting to be on and STAY on the island...). Also, if Ben somehow dies in the meantime, via the hand of one of the Losties, that may also enrage those that are trying to get him for whatever reasons. And that could lead to a war...

It may have sounded like MANkowski but it is MINkowski (http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&ct=res&cd=2&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.lostpedia.com%2Fwiki%2FMinkow ski&ei=LcSsR767BqDApgT1nKimAw&usg=AFQjCNFSeRYCGIS5tcg3MzKn9ucZ01DkAQ&sig2=nD05i09jAXFlu0zTDKfNaQ). (WARNING: I didn't read this link so I don't know if it contains any spoilers.)


...it didn't...:lipsseal: you're good. heh.

and thanks--maybe I should get my hearing checked before next week's episode!

PEACE--Kath

Ben's man on the freighter is Michael.

Walt's growth spurt is due to the actor playing him growing.

Locke's comment about Walt's growth spurt was a cutesy inside joke among the striking writers. Sometimes I wonder why we care about them so much.

Ben's man on the freighter is Michael.

Walt's growth spurt is due to the actor playing him growing.

Locke's comment about Walt's growth spurt was a cutesy inside joke among the striking writers. Sometimes I wonder why we care about them so much.

While the actor that played Walt has grown like boys his age do, it still needs to be explained in story if they were to use him. I too think the comment was a joke. I know why I care about the writers though.

I think it's Charlotte.
She didn't react to seeing Ben.
Ben shot her, knowing she had on a vest, to throw off suspissions.
She expected to see the DHARMA collar on the polar bear, because she was a field agent verifing that Ben's Time Machine worked. (The Poalr Bear was a test subject)
Ben said "man" to throw them off the scent.

This is VERY MUCH along the lines of what I have been thinking.... Nice post!

I think it's Micheal too, and here's how I think it went down.
Micheal's feeilng happy but guilty as he drives the boat away according to the compass, looking at Walt knowing he made the right chioce. Suddenly he hears some noise, he looks around and finds a walky-talky or some other com device. On the other side it's Ben, telling him he's got a chance of redemption. You can go home, he tells him, or you can head to the frieghter. He convinces him somehow that this frieghter is a threat, and he must infiltrate it using some cover story. Micheal does so, communicating with Ben the whole time.
To me it looks plausible, and I think it will also blow up in Ben's face somehow, knowing that Micheal is actully is a good person and wanting to make up for all he did, by using the frieghter to rescue the Losties, or 6 of them..

Michael was the most selfish of the Losties. THEY TOOK MY SON. He betrayed his fellow Losties and killed Libby and Anna Lucia to get Walt. I understand his anguish. But he caused so much pain and trouble to get what he wanted. His bargain with Ben is done. Why on earth would he go back to the island--even if he could? Out of guilt? Does he really think the Losties would welcome him with open arms and forgive all (thanks for saving us Michael!)? He's foolish and a coward. I'm glad he's back in some way this season--I hope to see him get his due for the terrible things he's done.

I think the Charlotte idea works well. But whose to say he only has one mole? Ben never trusts just one person. Just a thought.

I like the ideas of Charlotte and Regina, although I'll hold on to Michael myself for the time being.

But here's a question: If Ben does have a spy on the boat, why was he so surprised in TTLG that a woman had parachuted onto the island? (I think it was that ep, but maybe Greatest Hits?) When he heard that info through the walkie... he was stunned! He wouldn't have been that surprised if he had known there was a freighter 80 kilometers off shore with 2 helicopters and all those researchers, would he have?
100%
Walt's growth spurt is due to the actor playing him growing.

Locke's comment about Walt's growth spurt was a cutesy inside joke among the striking writers. Sometimes I wonder why we care about them so much.
We care because we love this show, which is created by the writers. As for Walt, we care because we have been told that his growth will be explained as an element of the plot of the show.

If Walt's the "mole" he must be a double agent because he helped Locke after Ben shot him. If Ben was working with Walt don't you think Walt would have tried to prevent that?

I don't think that Michael or Walt could be the mole. Ben would have to have given them instructions before they left besides which coordinates to sail to. Besides, Ben gave Michael an assignment once before, and we know how "smoothly" that went. It makes more sense to me that Michael and Walt never actually were able to get off the island - kind of like Desmond when he got the boat and kept sailing around and just couldn't get away from the island.

But here's a question: If Ben does have a spy on the boat, why was he so surprised in TTLG that a woman had parachuted onto the island? (I think it was that ep, but maybe Greatest Hits?) When he heard that info through the walkie... he was stunned! He wouldn't have been that surprised if he had known there was a freighter 80 kilometers off shore with 2 helicopters and all those researchers, would he have?
100%

Well, I think it would make sense for him to be surprised if his intel had told him that they (on the freighter) still had no idea how close they were to the island and that there were no plans to launch anybody (Naomi) in search of it... He was surprised because they weren't supposed to have been able to find it...

MarineOne, yeah, that certainly could be the explanation. But it is discrepant enough to make me doubt Ben's story.

Miles did call someone named Regina, who told him that Minkowski (sp.?) couldn't come to the phone.


I like the Michael idea as well.

When I watched the episode I thought it was Regina. I read a recap today on another web site and I was leaning toward it being Michael then I friend of mine thinks it is Minkowski. I could be any of those 3 if you ask me and it is just a theory

I don't think that Michael or Walt could be the mole. Ben would have to have given them instructions before they left besides which coordinates to sail to. Besides, Ben gave Michael an assignment once before, and we know how "smoothly" that went. It makes more sense to me that Michael and Walt never actually were able to get off the island - kind of like Desmond when he got the boat and kept sailing around and just couldn't get away from the island.

Ben said to Michael and Walt: sail using a compass degree of 325 (I think it was), and that, "you will find rescue." Just something interesting.

Ben could have been lying about the man on the inside. He does lie a lot and he was about to be killed unless he contributed to the group somehow.

It makes total sense that Micheal is the mole. Didn't we first see "MOLE" spelled out when Micheal was on the computer trying to talk to Walt? They hit us over the head with it.

This is what I thought too: that Michael is the mole.

Ben didn't give Micheal the coordinates to get to the ship

remember Ben was shocked when he found out that the ship was close to the islandMaybe just shocked that they were there so quickly. ;)

Ben's man on the freighter is Michael.

Walt's growth spurt is due to the actor playing him growing.

Locke's comment about Walt's growth spurt was a cutesy inside joke among the striking writers. Sometimes I wonder why we care about them so much.Not an inside joke at all. It's been said, several times, by TPTB that Walt's growth spurt will be explained within the story. And we care about the writers because 1] they're being shafted on compensation for their work and 2] they write this show that we love.

I think it's Micheal too, and here's how I think it went down.
Micheal's feeilng happy but guilty as he drives the boat away according to the compass, looking at Walt knowing he made the right chioce. Suddenly he hears some noise, he looks around and finds a walky-talky or some other com device. On the other side it's Ben, telling him he's got a chance of redemption. You can go home, he tells him, or you can head to the frieghter. He convinces him somehow that this frieghter is a threat, and he must infiltrate it using some cover story. Micheal does so, communicating with Ben the whole time.

To me it looks plausible, and I think it will also blow up in Ben's face somehow, knowing that Micheal is actully is a good person and wanting to make up for all he did, by using the frieghter to rescue the Losties, or 6 of them..That is a fantastic idea for how Michael got to be the mole. I like it!

If Walt's the "mole" he must be a double agent because he helped Locke after Ben shot him. If Ben was working with Walt don't you think Walt would have tried to prevent that?That's a very good point. I think it's Michael and not Walt.

Ben could have been lying about the man on the inside. He does lie a lot and he was about to be killed unless he contributed to the group somehow.Then how did he know so much about Charlotte? He didn't have access to the same source that gave him info on the Losties. Someone had to have gotten that info to him and fairly recently, too.

Then how did he know so much about Charlotte? He didn't have access to the same source that gave him info on the Losties. Someone had to have gotten that info to him and fairly recently, too.

Well, if Charlotte's the mole.......;)

I don't think Charlotte could be the mole. If she is Ben's "man" then she would have had to have been on the island before and Alex and Karl don't recognize her. It's possibly, but I think Michael is the better explanation at this point.

I don't think Charlotte could be the mole. If she is Ben's "man" then she would have had to have been on the island before and Alex and Karl don't recognize her. It's possibly, but I think Michael is the better explanation at this point.

Why would she have had to have been on the island before? They have had contact with the "outside" world.

I'm just not on board with the Michael idea. If he is on the boat, how would he have been able to get all this information on each of the team members? Surely not by asking them, and how would they ((Ben & Michael) have been in contact with each other?

Long time reader, first time poster. I love The Fuselage! You guys are so smart.

Here's my theory on Ben's man. Has anyone thought of Patchy? Mikael? The last time we saw him he was holding a grenade in TTLG. What if he survived the blast (like he always does) and somehow found the freighter? He has the experience as a spy, he's beholden to Ben (for some reason, he seems to do whatever Ben tells him to do) and he's ruthless. He could be the reason George couldn't come to the phone. Maybe he's already doing his dirty work and is wreaking havoc on the freighter. Also, he has advanced technology skills which may allow him to infiltrate the freighter's communications systems and send information to Ben. At least before Ben got tied up and incapacitated. :biggrin:

I agree, however, that Michael and Walt are on the freighter. But I think they're just chilling, waiting for the plot to catch up with them.

Any ideas?

If Ben had a mole on the freighter,why didn't they warn him Naomi was on the way?

He seemed VERY surprised when he found out about her,and had to hastily rearrange all his plans.

Abaddon was VERY clear that these 4 specific individuals had to go to the island.Its feasible that Ben and his cohorts in the real world knew what 4 individuals Abaddon would pick.

Its very Ben-like to let Charlotte think he has a spy.She will phone this information in,sowing paranoia and suspicion in the ranks.

Thank you for saying what I have been thinking all along. I do however have an idea for who the spy might be:


Ben's childhood friend, Ann. There has been a lot of talk about whether or not she was killed during the purge. This would be a good explanation of what happened to her. He may have been able to save her by having her work off the island.

I'm with chem girl!!!

I vote for Michael. Ben promised him rescue...but didn't promise WHEN. I think he is holding the rescue card over Michael's head for a while longer. Michael is continuing to jump through Ben's hoops...and probably with a gun to his head.

I'm not gonna get hung up on the "Walt Growth Spurt" thing. I think that ultimately it's going to be a moot issue. From a production point of view, the camera angle on Walt from the grave in the scene with Locke was likely an attempt to keep from seeing Walt from eye level and to hopefully distract from his real life growth. I would be surprised to ever see an explanation over the growth/aging issue in regards to Walt.

Well, if Charlotte's the mole.......;)Then why give all *her* info away? That instantly put her in line for big danger. That just doesn't make sense to me.

Why would she have had to have been on the island before? They have had contact with the "outside" world.

I'm just not on board with the Michael idea. If he is on the boat, how would he have been able to get all this information on each of the team members? Surely not by asking them, and how would they ((Ben & Michael) have been in contact with each other?How did he get the info from anyone on board? He got it, so someone is on that boat and it might as well be Michael. From what we know, Michael is the only one that's left the island and not been back yet. As to his reasons for helping ... we'll find that out eventually.

I agree that right now, Michael and/or Walt seem to be the obvious and logical choice.
The idea that was posted by somebody further up in this thread that Ben contacted Michael after he left on the boat is a possibility.
I don't think that Charlotte is Ben's spy. Ben is on the island, it would make little sense for his spy to come to the island as well. A far better position for the spy would be to remain on the boat and if possible inform Ben of all furhter developments, and try to influence those developments in their favor. It could be, but I'm not convinced that Charlotte is in cohorts with Ben.
The thing that disturbs me about the possibility that it's Michael is the time factor. I'm not entirely up to date on the Lost timeline, but it's not been that long since Michael left the island. Three weeks, maybe? If somebody can pinpoint the exact time I'd be glad.
But somebody who is spying for Ben on that freighter needs to be somebody who can get to all the information Ben needs without arousing suspicion. Even if the freighter had taken Michael on board as a castaway or something, I don't see how that would have given Michael access to that kind of sensitive information. After all, the freighter is on some sort of secret mission, surely the crew isn't exactly handing out info about their crew-members and what they're up to.

But here's a question: If Ben does have a spy on the boat, why was he so surprised in TTLG that a woman had parachuted onto the island?

The simplest explanation for this is that Ben _doesn't_ have a man on the boat. And why is everyone suddenly believing everything that Ben says?

Think about it; if Ben had a man on the boat, he wouldn't admit it, or it would compromise his spy. He could just as easily have a spy in Abbadon's organization back on the mainland. He'd have known everything he did know because the boat had been some time in coming, but no the recent detals about what the boat was doing, since the jamming had led to an information blackout recently.

But if he had a spy on the mainland, his statement of a "man on the boat" would be classic Ben. It would protect his real spy, disrupt operations on the boat, since word will eventually get back to them, and it would withold the truth, which seems to be Ben's hobby...

The simplest explanation for this is that Ben _doesn't_ have a man on the boat. And why is everyone suddenly believing everything that Ben says?

I'd usually have said the same thing as you, wesb, but on this occasion is was clear that somebody would have killed Ben had he not revealed that information. Locke may not have been able to do it, but Sawyer and Karl both seemed prepared to put a bullet in him. The information he had on Charlotte was very precise and detailed. I don't doubt Ben on this occasion, though it pains me to say that! ;)

Maybe Ben is clairvoyant?

The simplest explanation for this is that Ben _doesn't_ have a man on the boat. And why is everyone suddenly believing everything that Ben says?

Think about it; if Ben had a man on the boat, he wouldn't admit it, or it would compromise his spy. He could just as easily have a spy in Abbadon's organization back on the mainland. He'd have known everything he did know because the boat had been some time in coming, but no the recent detals about what the boat was doing, since the jamming had led to an information blackout recently.

But if he had a spy on the mainland, his statement of a "man on the boat" would be classic Ben. It would protect his real spy, disrupt operations on the boat, since word will eventually get back to them, and it would withold the truth, which seems to be Ben's hobby...

I'm leaning more towards Wesb's line of thinking myself, especially given that the photo of Ben was taken at an airport security line, which HAS to be Off-island.

Look at how easily Ben obtained detailed histories on each of the 815 passengers. We know that Ben has powerful means of researching anyone who catches his interest. We know he has been off-island as a child and as an adult. If he has been off-island since the purge, it would make sense that he would be keeping tabs on other people who have an interest in the Island. He might also be keeping track of people who appear to be 'special'. We've seen that he considers anyone who is 'special' and has access or perhaps potential access to the island to be a tremendous threat. (Whether a threat to him as a dictator or to the island itself remains to be seen.)

Ben was intimate with Dharma. He's most likely have a great deal of knowledge of who is aware of the Island and who is competing with Dharma for control of it. Scientists are a competitive lot. If Dharma was interested in researching the island, then there had to be others also interested. If Dharma ever published ANY of their findings, Game On for a race to replicate or disprove their work.

Ben told Jack that the people on the boat had been looking for The Island for "quite some time."

Everything that Ben spouted about Charlotte could have been obtained a long time ago, and not necessarily by a mole on the freighter. Which would explain why he couldn't anticipate their arrival date.

Sorry if this has been said already but what if we check flash forwards to somehow work out if people have aged quicker compared to the losties like the cop anna lucia knew. has he aged alot since we last saw him compared to hurley or jack in the same time frame.

not sure if there are any clues to this.

Just a thought!

Then why give all *her* info away? That instantly put her in line for big danger. That just doesn't make sense to me.

It's the ultimate mind game. And what does she care if he "gives all her info away"?What can the Losties do with it? And how do we know that all the information he gave about Charlotte is true? No one would ever suspect it was Charlotte if Ben tried to shoot her and then gave up info on her.

How did he get the info from anyone on board? He got it, so someone is on that boat and it might as well be Michael. From what we know, Michael is the only one that's left the island and not been back yet. As to his reasons for helping ... we'll find that out eventually.

Well, the actual Freighties have access to the equipment onboard the Freighter. Michael, again if he's on board, has access to nothing.

I just don't understand the reasoning people think it's Michael, just because he may be on the boat? Well, if that's the reasoning, Farraday, Miles, Charlotte, Lapidus, Naomi, Regina and Minkowski are all on the boat too, so they could just as easily be the mole if being on the boat is the only qualification for being the mole.:undecide:

That's why I also think there is a possibility there may not even be a mole on the ship but on the mainland and Ben is playing mind games again.

What if Ben's "man" on the boat is actually a woman? Regina. Played by actress/stuntwoman Zoë Bell. She tells Miles that Minkowski is 'tied up at the moment.' Did she literally tie him up?

What if Ben's "man" on the boat is actually a woman? Regina. Played by actress/stuntwoman Zoë Bell. She tells Miles that Minkowski is 'tied up at the moment.' Did she literally tie him up?

Yeah I had that thought too awhile back, about Minkowski being literally tied up. There are many possibilities!;)

That would be a very interesting twist. It would also be good to see him again.



I think the possibility of it being Michael is interesting.. but the question is.. if Michael is on the freighter, where is Walt? Obviously, he would not be going as Michael on the freigher because they have a detailed manifest they would know he was on 815.. (they knew Juliet was a native)
And does Michael know enough about Ben to want to/be able to collect that kind of detailed background information on the freighter crew? Ben took his son away from him.. granted he gave him back, but only after Michael betrayed his beach buds and shot 2 people.. .. Why would he want to help Ben at all?

I have a hunch it's Regina.. she sounded pretty sketchy when Miles called about Wikowski (sp)

Why would she have had to have been on the island before? They have had contact with the "outside" world.

I'm just not on board with the Michael idea. If he is on the boat, how would he have been able to get all this information on each of the team members? Surely not by asking them, and how would they ((Ben & Michael) have been in contact with each other?

I don't think Ben would trust someone in the outside world, whom he has never met before. If Michael is on the boat he wouldn't need to ask them who they were, he would just have to do some info digging. There would probably be records and profiles on the boat. Walt might somehow be the contact link. Whether the mole is Charlotte, Michael, or someone else, there is still the question of how they and Ben were able to communicate with each other.

Whether the mole is Charlotte, Michael, or someone else, there is still the question of how they and Ben were able to communicate with each other.

Perhaps via Walt? Just a thought. Not a theory I hold dear.

Say...maybe it's Kelvin...Desmond assumed he died, but do we know that?

He was pretty dodgy, after all.

Say...maybe it's Kelvin...Desmond assumed he died, but do we know that?

He was pretty dodgy, after all.

That is a good theory PINK FREUD. I like that one. We just assume that Kelvin was dead but we do know that the Others do have a medical station that they could have treated a head injury. I would like to think that we have not seen the last of Kelvin.

Say...maybe it's Kelvin...Desmond assumed he died, but do we know that?

He was pretty dodgy, after all.

Nope, not a bad thought at all. However, how would Kelvin have been able to get onto the Freighter? Unless Ben gave him another boat, and if that's the case Ben sure has a lot of boats!

Perhaps via Walt? Just a thought. Not a theory I hold dear.
I actually said the same thing awhile back upthread. I'm just glad someone else is thinking this too now.:biggrin:


The thing that disturbs me about the possibility that it's Michael is the time factor. I'm not entirely up to date on the Lost timeline, but it's not been that long since Michael left the island. Three weeks, maybe? If somebody can pinpoint the exact time I'd be glad.
But somebody who is spying for Ben on that freighter needs to be somebody who can get to all the information Ben needs without arousing suspicion. Even if the freighter had taken Michael on board as a castaway or something, I don't see how that would have given Michael access to that kind of sensitive information. After all, the freighter is on some sort of secret mission, surely the crew isn't exactly handing out info about their crew-members and what they're up to.
Michael left the Island on Day 67, and we are now on Day 94, so it's been almost a month.
Maybe they gave Michael the information because they knew he had been on The Island and they wanted his help and input?

If Ben had a mole on the freighter,why didn't they warn him Naomi was on the way?



The mole is a more recent development?

They were incommunicado?

I can think of more possibilities.

Regarding Kelvin, if he has ties with Ben, don't you think he would've told him about Desmond's boat? Early in season 3 when Colleen told Ben they had a boat (Desmond's) he was totally shocked. One can argue that maybe Kelvin didn't want to tell Ben so he could leave, but it's common knowledge amongst the Others that if you try to leave you'll end up sailing in circles.

For a while I have been thinking that the mole is just another one of Ben's attempts to stay alive. While I do believe that Michael is on the boat, I don't think he is walking around free. When Regina said that Minkowski couldn't come to the phone, I think he was away dealing with Michael (the prisoner).

After reading this thread, I happen to believe this:
I think it's Charlotte.
She didn't react to seeing Ben.
Ben shot her, knowing she had on a vest, to throw off suspissions.
She expected to see the DHARMA collar on the polar bear, because she was a field agent verifing that Ben's Time Machine worked.
She did seem happy (to be back?) when she landed in the water.

The mole is a more recent development?

They were incommunicado?

I can think of more possibilities.

island time,,ben found out about Naomi yesterday.

he has not had a chance to talk to his mole since then,as he has been with Jack or Locke the whole time

Nope, not a bad thought at all. However, how would Kelvin have been able to get onto the Freighter? Unless Ben gave him another boat, and if that's the case Ben sure has a lot of boats!Well, he has a sailboat! ;)

Hi all, first post to the fuselage, with my theory of Ben's MOTB. Going to be overcautious with the spoiler font to avoid making a potential n00b pas. I don't have any inside info, this is just my *convoluted* theory:


I agree w/ imfromthepast:

I think it's Charlotte.
She didn't react to seeing Ben.
Ben shot her, knowing she had on a vest, to throw off suspissions.
She expected to see the DHARMA collar on the polar bear, because she was a field agent verifing that Ben's Time Machine worked. (The Poalr Bear was a test subject)
Ben said "man" to throw them off the scent.

Furthermore, I think Charlotte is "Ben's Man" b/c she's his and Annie's daughter. Ben had to smuggle Annie off the island when she became pregnant so Annie wouldn't die in childbirth (which would be especially traumatic for Ben given the circumstances of his own birth). Charlotte has been trying to get to the island her whole life because of the stories she heard from Mom. That's why she was hunting Dharma polar bears in Tunisia, looking for clues. (At some point prior, she must have also had actual contact with her Dad, enabling her to become the mole)

I think this explains CS Lewis' euphoria upon landing in the island grotto. Almost like she had finally made it through the wardrobe into Narnia.....

She certainly seems the sneakiest/most insincere one of the "Freighter Four", doesn't she? Makes sense that she would come by it genetically. Seems possible she was also the only one wearing a bulletproof vest.... (at any rate, it seems pretty clear from Lapidus beach-bum attire that he wasn't wearing a vest; Miles and Danny, I'm not so sure about....)

So I think Ben warned his daughter to wear a vest because he knows firearms grow like coconuts on the island. Then he stole Karl's gun and plugged her twice to create a dramatic situation where he could explain the necessity of his own survival (knowing that Sawyer was already arguing for whacking him). At the same time, he'd accomplish this without actually killing his daughter, while eliminating her from suspicion that she's the mole. (See, Ben needs to accomplish two things here, 1). establish that he does, in fact, have a mole and 2). simultaneously protect said mole's identity so "he" can keep makin' molé.)


Well, just a theory. It's probably Michael :biggrin:

Hi all, first post to the fuselage, with my theory of Ben's MOTB ...Brilliant! And of course he'd know all her particulars! Best suggestion so far! :)

island time,,ben found out about Naomi yesterday.

he has not had a chance to talk to his mole since then,as he has been with Jack or Locke the whole time


A day could be enough time. He was talking to Rousseau and others during that time.

Also, he obviously talked to someone (either before or since) because he had factual
information regarding the boat. So either he knew about the boat far in advance and
had enough time to act or he didn't know and he's found a way to communicate.

Ben obviously has connections to the outside world, and i think they are much wide spread than we have previously thought. He even might be the leader of the whole Hanso organization.

I believe Ben is the source for the whole fake-aeroplane idea. He wanted the world to stop searching for possible survivors, because it would endanger the island to be found.

island time,,ben found out about Naomi yesterday.

he has not had a chance to talk to his mole since then,as he has been with Jack or Locke the whole time

When Naomi was knifed in the back by Locke hadn't she been with the Losties 3 days? I'm sure someone on the show had said that. According to Mikhail, it would take her a day to a day and a half to recover from her wound, plus the walk up to the radio tower encompassed a day, so Ben has known about her for more than a day.

When Naomi was knifed in the back by Locke hadn't she been with the Losties 3 days? I'm sure someone on the show had said that. According to Mikhail, it would take her a day to a day and a half to recover from her wound, plus the walk up to the radio tower encompassed a day, so Ben has known about her for more than a day.
Yeah, when I brought up Ben's surprise at Naomi being on the island way upstream in the thread, I said I thought he found out in TTLG. Actually, it was in TMBTC:

Mikhail: I encountered several of his people in the jungle. They had an injured woman with them. Apparently she had just parachuted onto the island.
Ben: What?!
Mikhail: Her helo crashed into water. She says her ship is approximately 130 clicks to the West of us. She has a radio telephone.
Ben: Where is she now?
Mikhail: I assume they have taken her back to their camp.
Ben: We'll be visiting their camp day after tomorrow, we'll take care of it then.
Mikhail: Day after tomorrow? We have to go now.

Ok, so they were supposed to do the raid in 2 days, but they bumped it up to that night. The next morning was when Ben met Jack and the group by the radio tower. So, if I figured this out correctly, Ben only had a few hours (including the time he spent trekking with Locke to Jacob) to contact his mole. This is leading me more and more away from the idea that he really DOES have someone on the boat.

Hi all, first post to the fuselage, with my theory of Ben's MOTB. Going to be overcautious with the spoiler font to avoid making a potential n00b pas. I don't have any inside info, this is just my *convoluted* theory:


I agree w/ imfromthepast:



Furthermore, I think Charlotte is "Ben's Man" b/c she's his and Annie's daughter. Ben had to smuggle Annie off the island when she became pregnant so Annie wouldn't die in childbirth (which would be especially traumatic for Ben given the circumstances of his own birth). Charlotte has been trying to get to the island her whole life because of the stories she heard from Mom. That's why she was hunting Dharma polar bears in Tunisia, looking for clues. (At some point prior, she must have also had actual contact with her Dad, enabling her to become the mole)

I think this explains CS Lewis' euphoria upon landing in the island grotto. Almost like she had finally made it through the wardrobe into Narnia.....

She certainly seems the sneakiest/most insincere one of the "Freighter Four", doesn't she? Makes sense that she would come by it genetically. Seems possible she was also the only one wearing a bulletproof vest.... (at any rate, it seems pretty clear from Lapidus beach-bum attire that he wasn't wearing a vest; Miles and Danny, I'm not so sure about....)

So I think Ben warned his daughter to wear a vest because he knows firearms grow like coconuts on the island. Then he stole Karl's gun and plugged her twice to create a dramatic situation where he could explain the necessity of his own survival (knowing that Sawyer was already arguing for whacking him). At the same time, he'd accomplish this without actually killing his daughter, while eliminating her from suspicion that she's the mole. (See, Ben needs to accomplish two things here, 1). establish that he does, in fact, have a mole and 2). simultaneously protect said mole's identity so "he" can keep makin' molé.)


Well, just a theory. It's probably Michael :biggrin:


I"M LIKIN' IT!!

Ok, so they were supposed to do the raid in 2 days, but they bumped it up to that night. The next morning was when Ben met Jack and the group by the radio tower. So, if I figured this out correctly, Ben only had a few hours (including the time he spent trekking with Locke to Jacob) to contact his mole. This is leading me more and more away from the idea that he really DOES have someone on the boat.


But how do you know that Ben's mole hasn't been on the boat since it left dock?

Like I said earlier, it's totally possible Ben had a mole on the boat all along, but was
unable to contact him/her until recently. Even Michael can fit that bill.

There just isn't enough information to say and I'm not sure it's terribly important. We'll
have the answer soon enough. This is one of the most minor mysteries on the show
at the moment. It hardly seems worth spending time debating about it.

Well, I don't know, of course, any more than the people who put the other 145 posts into this thread. And I don't think we can say what is a minor mystery or not, considering all that we don't know.

Whether or not Ben actually has a man on the boat, I think he has had info on the freighties for some time now. As Mr Abbadon told us, each of those team members was specifically selected, which implies that detailed background info on each person was compiled by someone. Ben's mole wouldn't have had to do all kinds of crazy research on these four people, all he had to do was access the files that were already created. That really leads me to believe that Ben has a man in the bigger organization that has been trying to track down the island for "quite some time". And lets face it, if there is this big ongoing struggle between the Others and some other group, you know Ben has been on the case since day one, infiltrating the enemy, getting info, screwing things up for everyone else... I think this is all the culmination of a scenario that has been playing out for quite a while, and our poor Losties are stuck in the middle.

I'd usually have said the same thing as you, wesb, but on this occasion is was clear that somebody would have killed Ben had he not revealed that information. Locke may not have been able to do it, but Sawyer and Karl both seemed prepared to put a bullet in him. The information he had on Charlotte was very precise and detailed. I don't doubt Ben on this occasion, though it pains me to say that! ;)

I think I had that one already pretty well covered. He didn't say anything that required a man on the boat; a spy on the mainland would have done just as well. (Everything he said would have been known even as the ship was first being launched to look for the island.)

So to protect his spy on the boat, he's have said he has a spy on the mainland. My suggestion is that he has a spy on the mainland so he says he has a spy on the boat. This not only protects the real spy, but disrupts activities on the boat.

Very Ben...

I think I had that one already pretty well covered. He didn't say anything that required a man on the boat; a spy on the mainland would have done just as well. (Everything he said would have been known even as the ship was first being launched to look for the island.)

So to protect his spy on the boat, he's have said he has a spy on the mainland. My suggestion is that he has a spy on the mainland so he says he has a spy on the boat. This not only protects the real spy, but disrupts activities on the boat.

Very Ben...

I have no argument with your logic, wes, and usually I'd be right with you in doubting Ben's statement. He's a fantastic liar after all (I watched One of The again on Sunday night - a brilliant episode). I just have my suspicions, and I think that the Michael/Walt idea has a high degree of probability.

As I've said on another thread though - I'm sure I'll be proven wrong come Thursday evening :)

M

The man on the boat is NOT Michael. It's Walt! Walt has psychic abilities and seems to "beam back" onto the island whenever he needs.

Hi all, first post to the fuselage, with my theory of Ben's MOTB. Going to be overcautious with the spoiler font to avoid making a potential n00b pas. I don't have any inside info, this is just my *convoluted* theory:


I agree w/ imfromthepast:



Furthermore, I think Charlotte is "Ben's Man" b/c she's his and Annie's daughter. Ben had to smuggle Annie off the island when she became pregnant so Annie wouldn't die in childbirth (which would be especially traumatic for Ben given the circumstances of his own birth). Charlotte has been trying to get to the island her whole life because of the stories she heard from Mom. That's why she was hunting Dharma polar bears in Tunisia, looking for clues. (At some point prior, she must have also had actual contact with her Dad, enabling her to become the mole)

I think this explains CS Lewis' euphoria upon landing in the island grotto. Almost like she had finally made it through the wardrobe into Narnia.....

She certainly seems the sneakiest/most insincere one of the "Freighter Four", doesn't she? Makes sense that she would come by it genetically. Seems possible she was also the only one wearing a bulletproof vest.... (at any rate, it seems pretty clear from Lapidus beach-bum attire that he wasn't wearing a vest; Miles and Danny, I'm not so sure about....)

So I think Ben warned his daughter to wear a vest because he knows firearms grow like coconuts on the island. Then he stole Karl's gun and plugged her twice to create a dramatic situation where he could explain the necessity of his own survival (knowing that Sawyer was already arguing for whacking him). At the same time, he'd accomplish this without actually killing his daughter, while eliminating her from suspicion that she's the mole. (See, Ben needs to accomplish two things here, 1). establish that he does, in fact, have a mole and 2). simultaneously protect said mole's identity so "he" can keep makin' molé.)


Well, just a theory. It's probably Michael :biggrin:





Excellent theory, I had a similar thought but your idea is fantastic. But like you I feel it may be the latter.

Ben obviously has connections to the outside world, and i think they are much wide spread than we have previously thought. He even might be the leader of the whole Hanso organization.
Actually, according to The Lost Experience a bad guy named Thomas Mittlewerk http://www.lostpedia.com/wiki/Thomas_Mittelwerk.

I think I had that one already pretty well covered. He didn't say anything that required a man on the boat; a spy on the mainland would have done just as well. (Everything he said would have been known even as the ship was first being launched to look for the island.)

So to protect his spy on the boat, he's have said he has a spy on the mainland. My suggestion is that he has a spy on the mainland so he says he has a spy on the boat. This not only protects the real spy, but disrupts activities on the boat.

Very Ben...
I'm sticking with the Michael via Walt idea for my main theory, but this sounds like a pretty good backup.:)

The more I think about it.. Maybe it's Patchy.. he never dies (by my figures he has at least 6 lives left) , has a scuba suit and could swim to the boat and collect informaton. He was the "information guy" :biggrin:

Mikhail was rubbish at lying to Sayid & Co though. Good at not being as dead as we'd thought, but bad at undercover.

This is leading me more and more away from the idea that he really DOES have someone on the boat.

Thanks for showing the dialogue, JennyLee! I wanted to re-watch that episode again to judge Ben's reaction. I'm also thinking more and more that he really doesn't have a mole on the boat. It reminds me of his reaction when he found out the Losties had a boat.

I'm really beginning to think it's part of his plan to get the freighties to turn on each other, thus getting away from their objective- capturing Ben. We've seen him play mind games before while in the hatch with Ben and Locke. I like wesb's theory idea that he has a spy on the mainland. So technically, Ben's only half lying. :biggrin:

Simply because Harold has been listed in the credits, I'm going with his man being Michael. Though I can't for the life of me comprehend why Michael would be on Ben's side. I don't think it was part of their arrangement - Michael already did more than enough for Ben to get Walt back. He's the last person I'd expect to be coming back, but this is Lost we're talking about, and TPTB are clever.

Hey Analog,

I've heard a lot of people make this argument: "Since Michael is listed on the credits, he must be the mole." With respect, and solely for the purpose of having a debate, I don't think that's a very compelling rationale. Harold Perrineau is listed on the credits simply because he has "star billing", meaning he's a main actor (but not necessarily that he's in every episode). The credits just mean he's going to show up eventually. But there are lots of possibilities. My guess is we're first going to see him in some flash forwards, and then he's going to hook up with Jack, Hurley, Kate, etc. and journey back to the island. Just a hunch -- I think it's more likely than him being the mole, though.

The reason I don't think he's Ben mole is I haven't heard a good reason *why* he'd help Ben out. Ben made him kill two people to save his son. If I were Michael, I'd be pretty ticked off about that....

The reason I don't think he's Ben mole is I haven't heard a good reason *why* he'd help Ben out. Ben made him kill two people to save his son. If I were Michael, I'd be pretty ticked off about that....

That's basically what I said isn't it? :)
I just realized though...Michael probably feels compelled to return to the island, much the same way that Jack and Hurlely do in the flashforwards. And guess who his only hope of returning is? You guessed it...

It may just turn out to be a little man in a canoe, for all we know! :14happy:

Hmm. You could be onto something there gupwalla, but why would he try to kill Charlotte (unless he knew she had the vest on and was doing it for show), and why would he try to prevent the Losties from contacting the freighter?
On the other hand, the team does seem to have skillsets particularly suited to the Island: physicist, "ghost guy," anthropologist (the pilot? who knows). Maybe Ben doesn't know as much as he lets on, and wants help to figure out some remaining mysteries of the island.

I dont think the man on the boat is michael, but i do think michael is on the boat.

I think Ben knew the exact position of the freighter, thanks to his inside man and so could be sure michael would be picked up by it.

Maybe Abaddon really is a corporate recruiter type and his job, like Richard's, is to seek out new talent and bring them to the island for Ben to exploit. And like Juliet, these new people think they're coming for a short stay to solve one challenge particular to their talents, only to find that Ben won't let them go once they're here

This is a plausable idea. As these freighties talents can certainly come in useful on the island. Mabye Mile's 'powers' can be used to converse with Jacob?

Before reading all of these theories, I thought it was just a random other on the frieghter, whom we had yet to meet. However, now I'm thinking it could be Michael, as I feel Ben's co-ordinates led Michael and Walt to the freighter. Ben may have convinced Michael to work with him for longer, in order to gain passage home for himself and Walt.

But then again... Who knows? All this thinking makes my brain hurt :undecide:

Ben has the inside scoop on all of them because he's seen their resumes. He's the one who hired him. They're looking for Ben because he's going to be their new boss. They just don't quite realize it yet.
Well, that would certainly be a surprising twist! It will still mean that Ben would have been faking his surprise at hearing that Naomi landed on the island.
Hmm. You could be onto something there gupwalla, but why would he try to kill Charlotte (unless he knew she had the vest on and was doing it for show), and why would he try to prevent the Losties from contacting the freighter?
To regain power and control over the situation? I especially think shooting Charlotte wouldn't be that surprising if he had 3 additional recruits showing up. Ben doesn't exactly have a high regard for human life!

Going back to my idea that Ben's spy is probably on the mainland, and that the "man on the boat" comment was to protect the real spy and disrupt operations on the boat...

I'm also suspecting that Michael is on the boat, that Ben has a reasonable suspicion that Michael may have been picked up by them, and that he knows there will also be suspicion on the boat that Michael is the spy. This again protects Ben's spy on the mainland, yet leaves some lingering doubt on the boat that one of the legitimate crew may still be the spy.

It all sounds a lot like Ben...

Michael.
Explains Miles lack of surprise.

Its got to be Michael....

Evidence: On the dock when Ben lets Michael and Walt go, Ben gives them some coordinates and tells them to follow that bearing and eventually a ship(or does he say freighter???) will pick them up.

Here's food for thought. Someone on another thread started a few molecules bouncing around in my brain, and who knows when the madness will stop!

But what if all of the freighter people are Ben's "man on the boat"? In other words, what if these are new, unwitting recruits for the Others? I mean, they've got a few job vacancies as of the end of S3.

Maybe Abaddon really is a corporate recruiter type and his job, like Richard's, is to seek out new talent and bring them to the island for Ben to exploit. And like Juliet, these new people think they're coming for a short stay to solve one challenge particular to their talents, only to find that Ben won't let them go once they're here.

Ben has the inside scoop on all of them because he's seen their resumes. He's the one who hired him. They're looking for Ben because he's going to be their new boss. They just don't quite realize it yet.

I had this thought a couple of days ago as well. Wouldn't that be a great twist?? I'm not sure how I would feel about Ben if this all turned out to be another of his grand schemes that fooled everyone...

I definitely believe Michael is on the freighter, but for very different reasons, following this line of events...


Paik is behind the freighter and wanted to find the island.
Paik knew that flight 815 was being brought to the island, and sent Jin on a job to bring a watch to a client, in a way that would have Jin on that flight.
The watch contains a transponder, that would allow the island to be located.
The watch made it to the island, surviving an unintended crash, but Jin eventually gave the watch to Michael, who carried it off the island.
The freighties have located Michael due to the transponder in the watch. He was likely interrogated fairly heavily to get what info he knew about the island. The freighties then did find out that there were 815'ers on the island, but don't know about what Ben's Gang has or can do. From what Michael saw, they may think that Ben's people live like savages...

Its got to be Michael....

Evidence: On the dock when Ben lets Michael and Walt go, Ben gives them some coordinates and tells them to follow that bearing and eventually a ship(or does he say freighter???) will pick them up.

That's what made me think it could be Michael too...

GALE: I'm not happy about the arrangement that was made with you Michael, but we got more than we bargained for when Walt joined us, so I suppose this is what's best. And you let me go, set me free -- you lived up to your word. We live up to our word, too. Do you know how to drive a boat?

MICHAEL: Yeah, I can drive a boat.

GALE: Good, then you're going to take this boat and follow a compass bearing of 325, and if you do that exactly, you and your son will find rescue.

MICHAEL: That's it? I follow the bearing and me and my son get rescued?

GALE: Yes.

I always wondered who Michael and Walt were going to say they were if they ever did get rescued and taken back home?

Having them only make it as far as the freighter would solve that problem and I guess if Michael was picked up by them then he technically found rescue, but that's the big question, who are those people on the freighter? Who hired them?

Thanks to Frank we know how the freighties refer to, or have been told to refer to, Ben and his people...

FRANK: You know how many times I studied that damn manifest? Believe me there's no Juliet Burke on that plane. She's a native.

Only one person has used the term native on the show before...

HORACE: Hey man I heard you ran into a little trouble.

ROGER: We're driving back from the Flame and we hear this huge explosion. Next thing I know, there's a siren wailing, and we're driving to the middle of a shoot-out.

HORACE: Look we're having some skirmishes with the natives.

ROGER: What do you mean, natives?

HORACE: Well, we're not exactly sure who they are.

That could be significant in regards to who the freighties might be or who might have hired them, the NBC suits suggest some knowledge of the purge as well IMO.

I'm guessing the freighter was sent by someone who represents the D.I.H.G (Paik/Widmore/Hanso) and it wouldn't suprise me to learn that Ben had people inside all of those organizations, a man on the boat, a man on the mainland.

At the moment though I am veering towards there being an actual "man on the boat" (someone we've yet to meet) and that the whole "Minkowski can't come to the phone right now" exchange between Miles & Regina will be a part of that plotline.

The freighter is probably Dharma, which is why they want Ben because he slaughtered their people.

I definitely believe Michael is on the freighter, but for very different reasons, following this line of events...

Paik is behind the freighter and wanted to find the island.
Paik knew that flight 815 was being brought to the island, and sent Jin on a job to bring a watch to a client, in a way that would have Jin on that flight.
The watch contains a transponder, that would allow the island to be located.
The watch made it to the island, surviving an unintended crash, but Jin eventually gave the watch to Michael, who carried it off the island.
The freighties have located Michael due to the transponder in the watch. He was likely interrogated fairly heavily to get what info he knew about the island. The freighties then did find out that there were 815'ers on the island, but don't know about what Ben's Gang has or can do. From what Michael saw, they may think that Ben's people live like savages...

I like the way you think.
This would be a great scenario, if true.
If only TPTB had such foresight...:rolleyes:
Anything that allows Jin/Sun to be more connected with the mythos of Lost.
Two episodes in and we've seen less than two seconds worth of Jin and Sun.

I like the way you think.
This would be a great scenario, if true.
If only TPTB had such foresight...:rolleyes:
Anything that allows Jin/Sun to be more connected with the mythos of Lost.
Two episodes in and we've seen less than two seconds worth of Jin and Sun.

Thanks for the kind words. I think that they'll have a lot more connections to the story. If Paik is behind the freighter, and Ben knows who they are, then the first thing he'd want to do is grab Sun as a hostage. Coincidentally, shortly after hearing that Naomi had landed on the island, he launched the commando raid to steal the pregnant women. Actually, this was probably a ruse to grab the one woman he knew was pregnant -- Sun. Because Ben plays his cards close, he probably wanted his hostage safe-in-hand before telling his people how much trouble they were in.

I'm guessing that the freighties will be interested in finding out if the Big Boss' daughter is still alive, and that Sun will eventually be grabbed by Ben's people. Since the freighties couldn't even go home if they got the Big Boss' daughter killed, they might be in the position to make a deal with a few losties for their help in securing Sun's rescue. This could explain how just "The Oceanic 6" managed to get off the island. I'm guessin' that whatever cover story might be able to explain the return of Sun and Jin, only a few others could credibly tag along under that same story...
100%
As far as TPTB having such foresight, a neat thing about writing stories is that these kinds of clever connections aren't that hard to plan out ahead of time. If you know what you want to have happen later on, you then set up all the neat little details that can make it happen, even some way way ahead of time, and -- poof -- you have this surprise where everything comes together. The only problem is in making them obscure enough that they're not too visible to too many people beforehand. One way to do that is to spread the details out over a long time like they did, and not make Sun and Jin too prominent, so we wouldn't think about them too much.

There are so many Sun/Jin connections coming together right now that I'm at least 50-75% sure that something kinda like this will start coming together before the end of the season. We'll see...

I'm guessing the freighter was sent by someone who represents the D.I.H.G (Paik/Widmore/Hanso) and it wouldn't suprise me to learn that Ben had people inside all of those organizations, a man on the boat, a man on the mainland.

At the moment though I am veering towards there being an actual "man on the boat" (someone we've yet to meet) and that the whole "Minkowski can't come to the phone right now" exchange between Miles & Regina will be a part of that plotline.

Nice analysis there, Richardstone! Best arguments I've heard for Michael so far, though I still think it's either Charlotte, or someone we haven't met yet. The theory is Ben shot his mole 'cause he knew she was wearing a vest--- the ol' Basic Instinct Ploy (why would I write a book about killing someone with an icepick and then kill them with an icepick?)

Notice how at the beginning of Faraday's FB, when the 'copter's going down, and they four are all screaming at each other, Charlotte yells: "I can't find my vest!" Myles says: "Under your seat!" Charlotte: "It's not there!" Myles: "Here, take mine!" and hands her a bulletproof vest.

I'm thinking getting out of a crashing helicopter in time is a matter of life and death. So I wouldn't be worried about getting out with my bullet proof vest...

...Unless it was also a matter of life and death :biggrin:

Notice how at the beginning of Faraday's FB, when the 'copter's going down, and they four are all screaming at each other, Charlotte yells: "I can't find my vest!" Myles says: "Under your seat!" Charlotte: "It's not there!" Myles: "Here, take mine!" and hands her a bulletproof vest.



How did I miss that?:eek2:

Interesting thinking about that watch. I would like to think that as much of a focal point that watch was, it should have something to do with the resolution of the story. FedEx is a heck of a lot cheaper than sending Jin on a plane to hand deliver, knowwhatImean? I hadn't really dug in mentally to why exactly Jin had to hand deliver, other than that maybe the recipient was a hit. But then....why would Jin need the cover of a delivery? Why not just make the hit?

And then for Michael to end up with the watch....hmmmmm....I think there's more to investigate with this watch situation.

Can someone please remind me of this watch scenario and how it started? My mind isn't working properly right now....

Can someone please remind me of this watch scenario and how it started? My mind isn't working properly right now....


The reason that Sun and Jin were on 815 was that Paik had assigned Jin to deliver Rolex watches to several of his associates in LA. After the crash, Michael fond one of the Rolex watches and began wearing it. When Jin saw Micheal wearing the watch, ,he beat him, severely, leading to Jin's handcuffing to the fuselage. Sun eventually explained to Michael, in English, that the watch was the source of conflict between Michael and Jin. Michael then used an axe to free Jin from his leashing to the fuselage.

Ringing any bells? ;)

I think Ben's man on the boat is Walt, and here's the post where I explain why I think so:

http://www.thefuselage.com/Threaded/showpost.php?p=1759661&postcount=27

Can someone please remind me of this watch scenario and how it started? My mind isn't working properly right now....

Also, some other details of the "watch" matter...

There were two watches; one to be delivered in Sydney, and one in LA. This sets up Jin for being on flight 815. Jin had made a plan with Sun to run away from Paik and to stay in the USA, once they got there. Unbenknownst to Jin, Sun also had a plan to dessert Jin in Sydney, so by that plan she wouldn't have been on flight 815 at all. In a restroom at Sydney, Jin was warned by a strange man that it was known he was planning to run away, but he was threatened that he must deliver the watch.

I was puzzled at first by this, because the warning never said that he couldn't run away; only that he had to deliver the watch. It seemed that he had permission to do both. But on thinking it over, if Paik knew about the plan to run away, it's possible that he also knew about Sun's plan to never get on flight 815 in the first place. In that case, the warning makes perfect sense, because the warning was meant to assure that Jin brought the watch onto flight 815 even if Sun wasn't with him.

If this is true, then Paik planned to use Jin to locate the island, possibly getting rid of a son-in-law who wasn't quite working out for him. His daughter Sun would be safe because she went elsewhere. But at the last moment, Paik's plan failed when Sun decided to go with Jin after all because Jin brought her a white flower, which had romantic significance back to their early relationship. So Paik's plan has doubly failed; his daughter got on the plane that got her stranded on the island Paik couldn't find, and then Michael brought the watch off the island so it couldn't be used to do its job.

Now with Naomi killed and the job in the hands of "amateurs without their baby-sitter", his plan is likely to go even further awry, but at least...

From what we know of the Oceanic Six, Paik will get his daughter back...

Spoilerfix mentions that in tonight's episode A piece of jewelry will be making a return appearance
I hope it's what I hope it is. lol.

I'm thinking getting out of a crashing helicopter in time is a matter of life and death. So I wouldn't be worried about getting out with my bullet proof vest...

...Unless it was also a matter of life and death

This is certainly a possibility--the writers didn't have to set up the fact that Charlotte had a vest on for the vest scene to work. They could have portrayed "chaos" on the helicopter in many different ways, but they showed the anthropologist, Charlotte, worrying about a bullet-proof vest. Might be a little plant we chuckle at if we learn that Charlotte is working for Ben, and that the shooting was planned to remove any idea that Ben and Charlotte are on the same side. On the other hand, it might be as it appeared--Ben was trying to kill Charlotte.

That's where you'd aim to hit someone if you were trying to kill them, the chest is the largest target.

I can't remember what programme I saw it in or whether it was an Army or a Police documentary but that's where they're trained to shoot.

I expect that all The Others are pretty good with guns, look at Juliet, she shot Picket in the exact same way as Ben did Charlotte, two to the chest, that's something I think she was taught on The Island, shoot to kill.

I have to say I'm not big the whole "man on the boat" being a woman, it seems too crass a deception for Ben.

Perhaps Ben has a man on the boat, but left out the part that he also has a woman. Ben seems like the kind of guy who would want to have a back-up plan if Plan A went awry. By having two (or more) on the boat, he would have more options. There's something more to Ben's statement about having a man on the boat--why telecast that information when he could have left doubt in the minds of the audience (both the viewers and those on the island) as to where he had gotten the information? He could have had the organization infiltrated off-island, and for all we know, he might not have anybody on the boat (which I doubt).

Somethings up with Ben's boat reveal. We just don't know what. Ben lies, but we don't know if he is lying here, or telling us the truth. I'm gambling on a lie, or not the full truth.

I doubt Ben would have said it unless he wanted someone to hear, and the only person in earshot who that information would matter to was Charlotte.

If she's not working for Ben then I bet her mind is racing trying to figure out who it could be.

If the next episode has any scenes on-board the freighter then we'll all be doing the same thing.

I think his "Man" might be Charlotte too!

Ben's man on the boat is Matthew Aboddan.

That's where you'd aim to hit someone if you were trying to kill them, the chest is the largest target.

I can't remember what programme I saw it in or whether it was an Army or a Police documentary but that's where they're trained to shoot.

I expect that all The Others are pretty good with guns, look at Juliet, she shot Picket in the exact same way as Ben did Charlotte, two to the chest, that's something I think she was taught on The Island, shoot to kill.

I have to say I'm not big the whole "man on the boat" being a woman, it seems too crass a deception for Ben.

You are correct. Both the Army and police departments train you to shoot "Center Mass" which is actually about mid-chest. A shot in that area will not always result in a kill but that's the point. When you do a kill shot you only take out that combatent, but when you do a wounding shot you take out 3 combatents, the one you shot and two others to assist. However, when push comes to shove I always aimed a bit higher but that's just me.
I agree with you about Juliet. I'm thinking her learning to shoot was a skill she learned on the Island as it doesn't really fit with her life before. She was way to timid of a person before to have known how to fire a weapon.

Hey. We just saw that the time is different from the boat to the island right? Ok, Ben and Sayid had some time together and no doubt they traded ideas. I think the time difference is not just thirty minutes, I think that it might be more like a day or two AHEAD of the island and that Sayid is Ben's man on the boat. I know it's way out there but how can we explain Ben's knowledge of the crew members? Michael maybe? Just throwing out a wild theory here...:undecide:

Good theory. But how does Sayid report back to Ben in Island-Time? Island Sayid doesn't know what Freighter Sayid has found out, so he can't tell.....

Hey. We just saw that the time is different from the boat to the island right? Ok, Ben and Sayid had some time together and no doubt they traded ideas. I think the time difference is not just thirty minutes, I think that it might be more like a day or two AHEAD of the island and that Sayid is Ben's man on the boat. I know it's way out there but how can we explain Ben's knowledge of the crew members? Michael maybe? Just throwing out a wild theory here...:undecide:

I don't think there's a time difference at all. Otherwise, they wouldn't be able to communicate over the phone with the freighter. Think about it...Daniel used the phone to call the boat and have them send that payload, but there was no delay between responses.

You guys are right. I just see this episode as the start of the alliance that Ben and Sayid have in the future. Does anyone have a theory on who is Ben's man on the boat? I belive it to be someone that we have already met. My first thought was that it had to be Michael but now I just just don't know what to think.

no.no.no.

It's become obvious who's Ben's spy on the boat.

It's Michael!

I don't think there's a time difference at all. Otherwise, they wouldn't be able to communicate over the phone with the freighter. Think about it...Daniel used the phone to call the boat and have them send that payload, but there was no delay between responses.

I think sound is the key.

For some reason sound is able to transend the warp (for lack of a better word).

Thus Hurley and Sayid hearing the old big band music on the radio, way back in whichever season it was.

Wasn't the guidance system to the island referred to as a "ping". Thus a sound. Implying that you must follow the sound and ignore the physical.

Just a thought.

michael is much weaker minded and simpler to manipulate. he must be the man on the boat!

I think you're right. Only question is how is he communicating?

Tall ghost Walt, anyone? :biggrin:

Though I still don't buy it. Just a hunch, but I think the first time we see Michael is going to be in a realworld flash forward....

I've been saying this to my wife since Michale left.

Just a thought: since Sayid is working for Ben in the future...perhaps they came to an agreement while they were locked up together. Ben may have been bluffing but with Sayid's arrival and acquiescence, he now really will have a man on the boat.

You know if time really turns out to be screwed up in this thing -- Sayid (past or future version???) may actually be Ben's man on the boat. Time thing is really getting to my head.:confused:

You know if time really turns out to be screwed up in this thing -- Sayid (past or future version???) may actually be Ben's man on the boat. Time thing is really getting to my head.:confused:

Right, if we really want to get into those kind of details, Sayid may already be Ben's man on the boat. Island time is slower after all (theoretically)...perhaps Ben was aware all along that Sayid would be his man.

My head hurts.

Sayid was on flight 815 and has been on the island with the survivors. How did he get on the boat to provide information to Ben?

If there is some element of time travel, which allows Ben to be on/off island, maybe it allowed for Sayid to be on the island and on the boat, and that would be why Ben says I have someone on the boat, knowing the other time era Sayid (sorry lack of better terminology) is in fact on the boat as well? just a thought.

that would be so weird if Sayid turns out to be the man on the boat, but won't you think the four from freighter would have recognized him

I still say that Michael is his guy on the boat...purely conjecture...I have not seen any spoilers on this topic but who else did we see leave the island at a specific bearing (keeping in mind Faraday's warning to Lapidus) given by Ben? Michael and Walt are the only 2 that I know of.

We have seen Alpert off island but I'm pretty sure that he is with the others on island.

Ethan is dead, so that leaves him out. I doubt that Ben's guy is someone that we have not seen yet...for all of those reasons, I believe it's Michael.

Kinda OT but I also believe that it's Michael in the coffin. That would explain one reason why Kate was angry enough to not care if he was dead in Jack's flashforward.

Michael is the mole.

He's not on the boat. Doesn't that throw a wrench into that theory? lol

Sayid was on flight 815 and has been on the island with the survivors. How did he get on the boat to provide information to Ben?

yea, I don't get that part of the theory.

that would be so weird if Sayid turns out to be the man on the boat, but won't you think the four from freighter would have recognized him

That is an extremely good point. Hmm..

This is what I thought too...

My guess is Ben knew one of the Losties would want to get to the boat.... so when he said "I have a man on the boat", at the time he really didn't but was just waiting for someone to go there. Kinda like Bens "secret evil plan" is all coming together for him. And for him have into on the Freighters, I'm sure he could of used his old tricks to gather information on them.

But on the other hand...... I'm still waiting for Michael to show up... so who knows...

Sayid???

Because of this time lapse...not knowing if it's consistently 31 minutes slower in ther real world or not(I don't think it is). Whatever this time shift thing is...it opens the door to begin to understand why Ben, Locke and Desmond know so much about things that are "supposed" to happen. Ben already knows he has a spy on that boat...though it actually hasn't happened yet because it's going to be Sayid. When he gets there, he'll discover the true plan of the freighties and in order to save his lost buddies he'll have to work with Ben...because, of course, Ben will be the only one that will know how to save everyone...and he'll manipulate, negotiate, etc.
The freight guys already know about the special properties of the island, there's no doubt about that...understanding bits and pieces of it, but not in the way Ben or Locke understands it...so it's possible they know somehow Ben will be there undoing with the help of an inside man...they just don't know who or when, only that it's originating from Ben. Is this making sense?...or does it just sound like a rant?

31 minutes? I thought it was 31 seconds.
???

Nah, it's minutes.

Anyways, I really dont think it's Sayid. Sayid's scenes with Ben (in the rec room) didn't indicate that to me. He seemed pretty genuine to me when he insisted on knowing who the man was. That's my take.

I don't think there's a time difference at all. Otherwise, they wouldn't be able to communicate over the phone with the freighter. Think about it...Daniel used the phone to call the boat and have them send that payload, but there was no delay between responses.


there are a couple things ive picked up on.. when sayid first saw the satalite phone he said something about never seening anything like this before.. which could be there from the future.. or that what im leaning towards that its a special phone made to deal with the time difference/ time travel situation going on.

I still say that Michael is his guy on the boat...purely conjecture...I have not seen any spoilers on this topic but who else did we see leave the island at a specific bearing (keeping in mind Faraday's warning to Lapidus) given by Ben? Michael and Walt are the only 2 that I know of.

We have seen Alpert off island but I'm pretty sure that he is with the others on island.

Ethan is dead, so that leaves him out. I doubt that Ben's guy is someone that we have not seen yet...for all of those reasons, I believe it's Michael.

Kinda OT but I also believe that it's Michael in the coffin. That would explain one reason why Kate was angry enough to not care if he was dead in Jack's flashforward.

Michael is the mole.


Oooh! I hadn't even considered that! I kinda forget that Michael exists sometimes. I was never too keen on him to begin with. It's an interesting possibility.

I don't think Sayid is the man on the boat, though. Aside from the time travel thing, I just don't think it would be that quick for Ben to convince Sayid to work for him. I believe the relationship in the flash forward came about from a sort of realization of Sayid's... the whole "we have to go back" thing...and working with Ben was just the only way he could accomplish that. But that's much farther in the future than 'the man on the boat'.

Ok, I'm just going to throw this crazy theory out there, okay it's more like a notion than a theory, but...
What if Ben's man on the boat is Ben? Maybe like the rabbit in the Orchid video, and the polar bear in Tunisia, one of the Dharma experiments caused Ben to bi-locate. There are two (or more) versions of Ben, each trying trying to get the upper hand. The 'badder' Ben trying to get back to the island on the one hand, and the picture of Ben the freighties were carrying was actually of this bi-located/duplicated Ben. Okay, maybe I haven't worked it all out yet, but is there a kernel or germ of an idea here...or am I just daydreaming?

I'm sticking to Charlotte being Ben's "man" on the boat. It's a nice twist.

But if I had to pick a second theory it would be Michael. (I believe Michael is on the boat, just not Ben's mole).

The Freighter Sayid vs Island Sayid isn't even on the list as possible theories.

i was thinking it was michael communicating through "taller walt" but you just made me sit up and think!
very interesting theory, i forgot about the rabbit. off-island ben may even be in charge of the freighter operation and trying to get his "island ben" self for whatever reason and sayid could be working with off-island ben...good ben vs. bad ben...hmmmmm?

man, that opens up a LOT of interesting possibilities.:o

:)

This show is so great for wild speculation and creative theories that anything is possible!

Anyways, I really don't think it's Sayid. Sayid's scenes with Ben (in the rec room) didn't indicate that to me. He seemed pretty genuine to me when he insisted on knowing who the man was. That's my take.According to this theory, by the time the helicopter gets to the freighter, it's travelled into the past seven or eight days. Ben has provided Sayyid with a way to communicate.

Keep in mind that Ben is really good at using this island. This is the magic box. "I wish I had a man on the freighter..." Find a man, send him back in time, voila! He'll be there as soon as you make the wish. :)

So. Sayyid in the rec room didn't have an alliance with Ben (and didn't know about Sayyid on the freighter). Sayyid getting onto the helicopter did have an alliance.

I think we'll also find that Sayyid's request to take Naomi's body with them was strategic. Don't forget the Orchid rabbit :eek: :eek: :eek: (Psycho shower music over)! KariLynn's counterpoint is the most convincing:
... I just don't think it would be that quick for Ben to convince Sayid to work for him.But we don't know what happened before Sayyid left Ben. Perhaps Ben let him talk to himself on the freighter!

--Väi

PS. In the spirit of full disclosure, I should mention that I have never ever, even once, been able to predict what was going to happen on this show.

That's my favorite thing about it!

The man on the boat is Mikhail.

He swam from the looking glass and got on a small boat, recruited the freighter pretending to be a russian cook.

Ben wouldn't have given the order to shoot Sayid on the beach if he was the man on the boat? No?

If there were two seperate and distinct rabbits in the Orchid vid, and more than one polar bears (1 Tunisia, more than 1 on the island), then 2 different Ben's would potentially have 2 totally different agendas?

I was chatting with my brother and I like his theory...
What if Ben's man is Walt? With the time stuff... it could be future Walt. Walt spent enough time with him - and with the room 23 mobisode...
I kinda like this theory.

So what about the possibility that Regina or Minkowski are Ben's man on the boat?

It would make sense if it were Regina because she could have taken care of Minkowski somehow (tied him up, killed him, etc) and if the helicopter really did reach the freighter she could have "taken care of them" somehow also (obviously Sayid doesn't die, though).

But...

It would also make sense if Minkowski were Ben's man on the boat, though I seem to recall the sense that he was the higher-up of the Freighties. Either way, the fact that no one wants to talk to Minkowski suggests that they could know that there is a plant on the boat and suspect him to be it...

Is there any reason to believe so far that it couldn't be one or the other?

What if Ben's man on the boat is Miles...Miles sure wanted to talk to Ben, badly... And was that 'code' words they were using? 3.2 million seems like an odd number...Ben responds with why not 3.3 or 3.4, maybe trying to tell Miles there are more of something...Miles did have a picture of Ben...

I'm kind of under the suspicion that it is Michael...he's already been a pawn for Ben once and he plays a good game. Really - what does Michael have back in the states? And how far could he & Walt have possibly gone on that little tug boat? Could the freighties have picked him up and taken them prisoner? It would make sense with Walt's appearance to Locke, as it was almost a warning of some kind.

Meh. I'm no good with conspiracy theories, which is why I never speak up. But I got a feeling about this one...

It's Michael! Just a hunch.

i think it's michael as well. And i thought for sure we'd get that reveal last night.

I don't think I have seen this theory up yet on the board.

When I was watching the exchange between Ben and Miles it occurred to me it may not have been extortion at all, but code. 3.2 million is a very specific number indeed. Could it be referring to co-ordinates, can 3.2 be referring to people, passwords, etc?

Also I was thinking their argument over the timing of Ben getting Miles that money could have been them negotiating something else entirely, like how long they should or need to be staying on the island, or how long until an event occurs, etc.

I know this is pretty half formed but it did strike me as a very specific possibility and wanted to throw it out there. Maybe someone else can run with it.

I need a LOST timeline, but how much time has elapsed bt Michael leaving and possibly being a "mole" on the Freighter? Has there been enough time for something like that to happen?

It almost seems too easy for M to be the man on the boat.

I don't think I have seen this theory up yet on the board.

When I was watching the exchange between Ben and Miles it occurred to me it may not have been extortion at all, but code. 3.2 million is a very specific number indeed. Could it be referring to co-ordinates, can 3.2 be referring to people, passwords, etc?

Also I was thinking their argument over the timing of Ben getting Miles that money could have been them negotiating something else entirely, like how long they should or need to be staying on the island, or how long until an event occurs, etc.

I know this is pretty half formed but it did strike me as a very specific possibility and wanted to throw it out there. Maybe someone else can run with it.

Interesting theory, with all the codes and deceptions flying around... I just took it that the people who hired Miles to deliver Ben probably offered him 3 milion to hand Ben over, so Miles now wants to make a 2 million profit by NOT turning him in!!! But, who knows??

Interesting theory, with all the codes and deceptions flying around... I just took it that the people who hired Miles to deliver Ben probably offered him 3 milion to hand Ben over, so Miles now wants to make a 2 million profit by NOT turning him in!!! But, who knows??

Well, it would actually only be a $200,000 profit and it hardly seems worth the trouble when you're already talking about $3,000,000...

Either way, I really like the ideas by Mom and noamjamski that they were somehow communicating in code. Maybe Miles was the mole....

3.2..... 3.2..... stating that there are really 32 people on the freighter ready to storm the island?

3.2 days (3 days, 4 hours and 48 minutes) until something happens? Ben says why not 3.3 or 3.4 - perhaps he's asking for a few more hours of time?

What else possibly?

Exactly MarineOne!

The way I read it, was Ben's reaction of "why not 3.3 or make it an even 3.5" was his deception, to make it look like a real negotiation. He was acknowledging the absurdity and randomness of that number.

The real crucial negotiation was the timing when they argued over two days or a week. Why would Ben think that he would not be free and able to make arrangements in two days, but in a week it would be possible? He could have just as easily said I am a prisoner, they will not let me wire you funds or whatever. That to me was a big tell that they were having some sort of time negotiation.

Great stuff! I'm glad the weather is total crap here in NYC and I chose to stay snowed in. This speculation on such a great episode is fun!

It could possibly be Regina, but if it was, I don't think she did anything to Minkowski. There has to be more than 2 people on the freighter and I doubt they'd all let Regina hurt or kill Minkowski without doing anything to her. I'm going with the theory that it's Michael. We're supposed to find out what happened to him at some point this season, and what better way to start off than show where he ended up after following Ben's compass bearing of 325- the freighter. How he communicates with Ben, on the other hand, is another matter.

I need a LOST timeline, but how much time has elapsed bt Michael leaving and possibly being a "mole" on the Freighter? Has there been enough time for something like that to happen?

It almost seems too easy for M to be the man on the boat.

Michael and Walt leave the ferry on day 67 (Losttime). Naomi crash-lands on day 87. So, that is a 20-day lapse between the two events.

On day 93 (6 days after Naomi lands), Walt appears to Locke in the mass Dharma grave, which is the same day the Losties get in touch with the freighties.

Taking into account that we don't know how long the freighties have been "off the coast" of the island (could be months, for all we know) AND the 31-minute time difference between Losttime and real time, I think it is quite likely that the tugboat met the freighter. Also - Ben sent Michael off with a compass bearing 325. Perhaps Ben knew the locale of the freighties and intentionally sent Michael & Walt towards them, with a promise that there would be a "rescue" boat in that direction, because rationally, that wee boat couldn't get them very far on it's own.

Very cool idea about them speaking in code. The whole 3.2, why not 3.3 or 3.4 thing sure did seem weird. 3.2 million is an interesting number to pick out of the air.
Ben always seems in control doesn't he? Even when he is speaking in (presumed) code with another captive in his own home while Kate holds a gun.

Gotta go with Michael being the man on the boat. That was my gut reaction immediately upon hearing Ben say that. And there were some spoilers out a few months back by people who saw the production in Hawaii claiming there was a scene taking place near a large freighter in a harbor and that Harold Perrineau was in the scene.

So... Michael and Walt ended up in Jakarta or someplace nearby, Michael lied about their names (because he's now a double murderer.) Abbaddon and company knew who he was and took him on OR Michael spoke to the wrong person about saving his lost friends OR Bea sent him there with that agenda. (Does Michael even know Ben's real name? Maybe Shorter non-Ghost Walt told him...)

I think Michael will aid Ben in defeating the Boaties (as I like to call them) which then helps him to regain the upper hand over Locke AND Jack, thus putting the O6 in the position to have to go back to the mainland, tell lies, do nefarious things for Ben and grow really gnarly chin-wigs.

Meanwhile... Same-Size Non-Ghost Michael returns to the states under his assumed name and, wracked with guilt over what he's done to this friends, kills himself. Only the O6 would've known who he was, thus the no-shows except for Jack at the funeral.

Michael=Ben's Man on the Boat & Person in the Coffin.

And that's that.

Same-Size Non-Ghost Michael returns to the states under his assumed name and, wracked with guilt over what he's done to this friends, kills himself. Only the O6 would've known who he was, thus the no-shows except for Jack at the funeral.

Michael=Ben's Man on the Boat & Person in the Coffin.

And that's that.

Hmm... your theory of who is on the boat (I really don't think it deserves spoiler font - is it truly a spoiler or just a theory?) really sounds like it could make sense actually... Even though I haven't liked that theory of him as the man on the boat since the first time I read speculation of it... but it makes sense with the second part of your spoiler / theory.

I like this Michael theory as well.

The only additional strange thing about the funeral was Jack was insistent he didn't want the funeral director to open the coffin. I still feel like there is significance that he didn't want to see the body. If that is all there is to it, why not look at Michael?

He's a doctor and wouldn't be squeamish about a cadaver.

A few ideas:
Michael, Walt, Penelope or Frank...maybe the helicopter is going to lend on the other island "alcatraz island" where the others (and kate and sawyer) were building a runway according to juliet in the season 3 finale...

I also like the theory that its Walt. Walt and Ben could have reached an understanding about the island that we haven't been shown yet. I still have the theory that Ben is on the side of good, but we haven't been shown that yet, either.

The main reason I think its Walt is Walt's ability to communicate through unusual means. He could simply appear in Ben's cell and tell him what he needs to know.

I don't have it worked out yet how Walt would be helping Ben especially after Ben kidnapped him, but maybe Michael convinced Walt that it was the right thing to do.

how do we know that Mile's ISN'T Ben's spy on the boat? he's really the only one of the freighties that has mentioned that they are looking for Ben, and maybe the requested money is in payment for his spying? I wouldn't be at all surprised to find that Miles is the spy, and if Kate had indeed given him some privacy when Miles asked for it, maybe the conversation would have gone differently. how else would Ben know who Miles is as he stated when he was asked?

I took the 3.2 million figure as an indication that Miles had done his background research and knew just how much Ben had available in off island accounts, i.e. ask Ben for the maximum he knew Ben could dig up.

What if Ben's man on the boat is Miles...Miles sure wanted to talk to Ben, badly... And was that 'code' words they were using? 3.2 million seems like an odd number...Ben responds with why not 3.3 or 3.4, maybe trying to tell Miles there are more of something...Miles did have a picture of Ben...

Yup, I agree. Especially when (quote) Ben said "Why not 3.2? or 3.4?" meaning, "Why not this code or that code" ...
100%
I like this Michael theory as well.

The only additional strange thing about the funeral was Jack was insistent he didn't want the funeral director to open the coffin. I still feel like there is significance that he didn't want to see the body. If that is all there is to it, why not look at Michael?

He's a doctor and wouldn't be squeamish about a cadaver.

Yes true, but he didn't want to see one "friend" of his (well used to be) all battered up, it might have reminded him of the island and he might have gotten emotional, see where I'm going? good think though;)

i agree that its michael.. or maybe walt. but who knows???

I don't believe it's Michael. He'd have Walt with him still.

Does anyone know if this freighter is supposed to be the same boat as in find815.com?

Very cool idea about them speaking in code. The whole 3.2, why not 3.3 or 3.4 thing sure did seem weird. 3.2 million is an interesting number to pick out of the air.
Ben always seems in control doesn't he? Even when he is speaking in (presumed) code with another captive in his own home while Kate holds a gun.

It wasn't weird at all, Ben was messing with Miles' head. I'm thinking that Miles just picked the number at random.

Miles was in a very dominant position with Ben tied up and Ben takes it away from him by making him unsure of why he asked for that number, breaking his confidence.

I think the 'man on the boat' is actually Charlotte and that Ben knew she was wearing body armour.

I'm leaning more towards Miles. When Ben said he had a man on the boat, he didn't know that Miles was on the island already. I don't know if this man on the boat is someone for him, or against him. If it is Miles, I'm not sure if he is with or against him. Was it black mail or code? I'm leaning more towards code, which makes it more apparent that Miles is his man.
I'm not so sure about Michael. How would Ben know if he was or wasn't on the boat? Was their enough time since him and Walt left?

Michael as Ben's "man" would be great plot development, but I also think that the timeline is a bit tight for it to be Mike (maybe, and I hope im wrong lol).
I also love how Harold is credited, so we will have no idea when he "pops" up.
Mike has been gone for a month (on/off island time imo). I recently made another thread about Aaron's age.. and the timeline seems very consistant with what we know.
Wouldnt Mike as Ben's "man" be too easy??

I think it's Frank.

Abbadon told Naomi the team had been selected for their unique skills or talents or whatever...but what 'talent' does Frank have...boozy out of work pilots are a dime-a-dozen. Frank found them. His insistence in speaking to the hotline supervisor is my big tell. Somehow he goes from calling into the hotline to pilot of the mission!!! No way...he's an infiltrator. Ok, maybe not Bens, but someone's.

But then of course, maybe he was just the lucky 100th caller....and won a fabulous trip to Craphole Island Resort and Tropical Mortuary.