I find it very ironic that in the first season, our Losties are stranded on the island, and at first, understandably, their main focus is rescue. They meet the Others and they're all, oh no, that's not gonna happen.

Now, the freighters land on the island and Charlotte for one is intent on staying put, so they can be found and be rescued, and our Losties are all, oh no, we're not so sure we want to be rescued.

Full circle, or do we keep on spinning.........

okay, did anyone else notice the HUGE similarities between the way that the Losties dealt wth the Freighties and the way the Others dealt with the Losties when they first arrived? it was most obvious in the scene where jack and kate lead miles and daniel to Naomi's body. when Jack says, "put the gun down.......my friends have a gun pointed at your head" etc. it reminded me SO much of the scene in the jungle where Zeke yells "light 'em up!!!" and suddenly the Losties see what they are really up against. Locke's group's treatment of Charolette was very much in the same vane as well, it reminded me of when Michael, Jin and Sawyer meet up with the Tailies.


so, is this just good writing/storytelling? or is this a clue as to how things are going o play out over the next three seasons? will Locke eventually be the new Ben, hiding the island from anyone who would want to find it? do Jack/Hurley become the new "bad guys", people who are trying to come to the island who will expose it's secrets? i don't know, i just thought the symbolism was so strong that it must mean something.

That's a very good observation. I believe the writers meant for the similarities to be intentional. More of the "Looking Glass" type of consistency.

okay, did anyone else notice the HUGE similarities between the way that the Losties dealt wth the Freighties and the way the Others dealt with the Losties when they first arrived? it was most obvious in the scene where jack and kate lead miles and daniel to Naomi's body. when Jack says, "put the gun down.......my friends have a gun pointed at your head" etc. it reminded me SO much of the scene in the jungle where Zeke yells "light 'em up!!!" and suddenly the Losties see what they are really up against. Locke's group's treatment of Charolette was very much in the same vane as well, it reminded me of when Michael, Jin and Sawyer meet up with the Tailies.


so, is this just good writing/storytelling? or is this a clue as to how things are going o play out over the next three seasons? will Locke eventually be the new Ben, hiding the island from anyone who would want to find it? do Jack/Hurley become the new "bad guys", people who are trying to come to the island who will expose it's secrets? i don't know, i just thought the symbolism was so strong that it must mean something.


I agree!!! But I just have a small disagreement...I believe the new Ben is not Locke, but Jack. That is why he is needed back on the island and why he wasn't supposed to leave in the first place. Locke is like Richard. He is supposed to find 'the one'.
I always like to point this one out, who was the first one to see a dead person on the island?

Jack. Remember Ben seeing his mother and then being 'chosen' by Richard?

I agree...there were a lot of similarities. Especially when Locke said (when Charlotte said she was there to rescue them) "that is where you are are mistaken, we don't want to leave".

Funny how 2 seasons ago the Others surrounded Kate, Jack, Sawyer, & Locke in the woods with guns (Don't cross the line), then this season Jack and Kate have the freighters surrounded by Sayid, Hurley, et al. with guns this season. Funny how things change. Now they don't trust anyone that comes to the island.

The way things are unfolding our Losties are becoming bloodthirsty avengers, paranoid and suspicious towards every new element introduced to the island. Sawyer is on a killingspree and now even Jack is ready to execute Locke in front of their own people. In the eyes of the new people, especially innocent little Daniel Faraday, our heroes must seem like ruthless killers and island savages. Just like the others looked like to us back in season one. Is this the sickness Danielle Rousseau was talking about?

Hmm..didn't think of the sickness as paranoia.
The Hatch gave some people paranoia.
But then again, what were the Radiation suits Miles and Co. had?

Don't think it's the sickness but I do think that the losties are acting more like the others. Like I said in another post I kept waiting for someone to say "this is our island". The best line was when Locke told Charlotte that they didn't want to leave(sorry don't remember exact quote). But I loved the way she thought they were all crazy. Of course that may be in your favor in the fact that she said "what is wrong with you people?!" Perhaps it is the sickness ( or maybe they've just gone native).

I was thinking exactly that when Locke said they weren't going anywhere. If LOST began from the perspective of these Freighties, our Losties would indeed be the Others.

Wow, that is interesting. I didnt even think about that.

BTW, im a long time lurker, finally decided to register.....mainly so I could read the board on the day after an episode...

Inevitable that comparisons would be made, but it is not, of course, an exact match. The Losties arrived on the island not by choice, and they did not arrive on the island to kill someone.

Inevitable that comparisons would be made, but it is not, of course, an exact match. The Losties arrived on the island not by choice, and they did not arrive on the island to kill someone.

Keep in mind that although the "original others" may have arrived on the island by choice (with DI), many aren't there by choice any more. Ben has kept them from leaving...hmmm, much the same with Locke and the "new others" (previously the Losties).

Also, we don't know what they want with Ben. Just because Ben says they're there to kill them all, doesn't make it true...he's been known to exaggerate the situation in his favor before.

It is full circle, but understandable that they would change their minds about being rescued, at least at the hands of the freighter people.

If Charlie had not left the message about it not being Penny's boat in literally his dying moment, I think the group, except Locke of course, would have welcomed the freighter's in with open arms. They wouldn't have known any different. Without Charlie, they would believe the freighter had the sole pupose of finding and rescuing them.

So, I think we do keep spinning, as in the past with this show, we are left with more questions than we started with.

I've stated in a theory once before seeing the sickness as joining the others. I think the Others got Robert and Danielle's other scientists to agree to helping them kidnap Alex, and she felt they went crazy or "sick" and shot them

I was thinking that in 2 years or so, someone else will come to get the freighties, and it will be their turn to say, um, no thanks, we're gonna stay here.......the torch will get passed once again.

Jack pulled the trick on Miles and Daniel that Tom pulled on him in The Hunting Party, he even used the same line, I'll forget this misunderstanding. Makes me think the losties have the advantage on the freighties because even if the freighties have all of the information about Dharma and the others the losties have the advantage of having lived there for four months.

The losties have now taken the role of the others. Its their island now

I can see that except there are differences, the others want to stay on the island, well maybe Juliet is an exception. And the losties, even those that went with Locke do, they went with him because they believe the people on the freighter are there to kill them. The losties crashed on the island and didn't come to the island for nefarious reason. The freighties I believe did. But, as I said the losties know more about the island than the freighties, the best routes after weeks and weeks of trekking through the jungle. And in the kingdom of the blind the one eyed man is king.

When Charlotte spotted the Losties coming out of the woods, the way they filmed that scene made it really easy to see from her perspective - they seemed like a rather scary bunch of people, much like how Ben's Others first appeared to the Losties, and not unlike how the Tailies first seemed to Michael, Jin and Sawyer.

Wow, that is interesting. I didnt even think about that.

BTW, im a long time lurker, finally decided to register.....mainly so I could read the board on the day after an episode...


FYI, sad to say, but I dont think that going to help you get on the Fuselage after an episode. I remember last year, when I got here, I always got the 'you cant look at board right now' message...assuming LOST is as popular this year as last, expect to see that some more. In the end, thats why I paid for the rather cheap member ship. You can get on more readily (but, at least on my computer, its still somewhat slow the day after a show).

From this perspective, I think it's interesting how Juliet is now on her 2nd different group of "Others." She has the most experience, so maybe she could give Jack and company some good pointers.

GREAT observation. I noticed this all the way through the episode as well, it just didn't occur to me to make it a topic...good thinking!! I loved how they did this. It really make you proud of our Losties having the upper hand with new people coming to the island. They really did seem like The Others did when we first started seeing them. Good stuff!!!

Yeah, it is definitely a "through the looking glass" type thing. From the freighties point of view, the losties seem pretty violent and not very trustworthy, just like the others.

I think the idea that whoever is not in your group is the "other" is a major theme of Lost and has played out on the island and in Sayid's backstory, for one. Now it's come full circle. Pretty interesting.

this is so interesting, that our Losties that we've been watching for 4 seasons now have now adopted the role of the Others in the first 2 seasons.
if Locke said "we're the good guys." then that'll top it off.
Once Locke's group arrives at the Barracks, the circle will be complete. a major theme in this show is perspective, and how things change depending on what side of the mirror you're looking at. (aka Through the Looking Glass)
I wouldn't be surprised to see a future episode filmed in the perspective of new comers on the island, and seeing the mysteriousness of our surviviors

It's interesting to think when the Losties first crashed and for a good time after, they so desperately wanted off the island. Now I think most of them appreciate the island (majority of Locke's group), and the ones that leave (oceanic 6) find themselves wanting to go back!

I'm not sure that the 815ers are the new others. But Locke certainly seems to be becoming like Ben! Notice how he uses the same M.O. He knows what people are emotionally invested in, and he exploits it to get them to do what what he wants. E.g. 1) when he tells Hurley, that needs to help convince the rest not trust naomi's people, "or else Charlie will have died for nothing." 2) when he tells Sawyer, "fine, let's execute him... right in front of his daughter." Ouch!

Of course, it was fun watching how easily Ben manipulated Sawyer as well. Sawyer tells Carl to get away from Ben, as he's just trying to get under his skin; and 30 seconds later Ben is under Sawyer's skin by talking about Jack ending up with Kate. Haha. Of course, why Ben is intent on angering people who like to beat him up is less clear.

if Locke said "we're the good guys." then that'll top it off.


in a way, it happens at about 17:15 ! Just after Miles has pulled the gun on Jack, Faraday says "What are you doing? These are good people".

edit: very interesting thread!

For the most part the Losties want to leave the Island even the ones that went with Locke. Whereas the Others want to stay on the Island and for no one else to find them of course with the exception of Juliet.

Watch the last episode have the remaining losties in otherville. Juliett is holding her book club with Danielle, Claire and other redshirt women, and a plane falls from the sky, suddenly you have Locke shouting to Sawyer and Carl to get to the tail section and main crash site and blend in, and he wants lists in three days.

Also Richard Alpert and the other Others, are back to being natives again.

Watch the last episode have the remaining losties in otherville. Juliett is holding her book club with Danielle, Claire and other redshirt women, and a plane falls from the sky, suddenly you have Locke shouting to Sawyer and Carl to get to the tail section and main crash site and blend in, and he wants lists in three days.

Also Richard Alpert and the other Others, are back to being natives again.

For some reason, I can't picture Danielle as book club material. :D I think of Sawyer as a Tom-type character, and Sayid like Pryce. I should just make a list of who will play who. Oh, and good call on Alpert and the Others being natives again!

okay, did anyone else notice the HUGE similarities between the way that the Losties dealt wth the Freighties and the way the Others dealt with the Losties when they first arrived? Except the Losties were very forthcoming in meeting up with the Freighties: they told them outright they were 815 survivors and wanted off the island (Jack's group at least). The Losties didn't try to infiltrate the Freighties by pretending to be members of the latter group; they didn't attempt to mislead them by dressing up as hillbillies; they didn't drag their women and children off into the jungle; they never took the Freighties' kid off the raft before blowing it up.

Also, the Losties were survivors of a freak plane crash who just wanted to go home, and the Others knew it. The Losties, on the other hand, know nothing about the Freighties other than their lies about being associated with Penny.

So, yeah, other than those things, just like the Others. :rolleyes:

Except the Losties were very forthcoming in meeting up with the Freighties: they told them outright they were 815 survivors and wanted off the island (Jack's group at least). The Losties didn't try to infiltrate the Freighties by pretending to be members of the latter group; they didn't attempt to mislead them by dressing up as hillbillies; they didn't drag their women and children off into the jungle; they never took the Freighties' kid off the raft before blowing it up.

Also, the Losties were survivors of a freak plane crash who just wanted to go home, and the Others knew it. The Losties, on the other hand, know nothing about the Freighties other than their lies about being associated with Penny.

So, yeah, other than those things, just like the Others. :rolleyes:

I agree with you. I don't see the Losties similar to the Others at all. The Others were always the aggressors. They knew the Losties were plane crash survivors, and instead of helping them or sending for help, they kidnapped some of them, murdered some, and conducted experiments.

The scene in the jungle with Tom and Jack, Kate, Sawyer, and Locke was not the same as the one with Jack, Kate, Sayid and Juliet. For one, the Others had blown up the raft and had kidnapped Walt. Once again, they were being violent and aggressive towards the Losties. In contrast, when the Freighters arrived, Dan told Jack straight out that rescuing them was not the primary objective. Dan also came with a gun and a gas mask (???). I can understand why Dan and Miles were armed, especially after hearing about Naomi, but I don't think the Losties are anything like the Others. Their modus operandi has been to fight only when threatened, and their main objective is get off the island.

Now Ben and Locke - those two are more alike than they are different. If anyone has become more like an Other, it's Locke.

I want to say that I belive this thread represents the krux of the whole show! I'm surprised that its not getting the attention I think it deserves.

In MOSMOF Locke tells Jack that the island chose each and every one of the survivors to come to the island. They were all chosen for a reason. I absolutely believe that is true! The island chose them because they each had specific traits which benefit and compliment each other as they become THE ARMY THAT DEFENDS THE ISLAND!

The island already has any army, which we refer to as 'the others." However, the others really are the good guys, but because of our perspective (the skewed perspective of the Losties) we couldn't see that before now. And since people on the island can't procreate it becomes NECESSARY for the island to choose its defenders.

Look at the army:

Locke = The spiritual "chosen one" who will act as conduit to Jacob/the island and tell him what needs to be done

Jack = The general. The alpha male leader. "He who walks amongst us but isn't of us."

Sawyer = The conman. The assassin.

Kate = The runner. The alpha female. The killer.

Sayid = The soldier. The torturer. The killer.

Jin = The soldier. The enforcer.

Juliet = The genius. The scientist. The Fighter.

Desmond = The coward who isn't a coward. The fighter. The sacrificer.

Hurley = The heart, the soul. The glue.

These Losties combined with some of the remaining others make a formidable army against any "virus" that would seek to infect the island and I think that's what the whole epic is about.

Except the Losties were very forthcoming in meeting up with the Freighties: they told them outright they were 815 survivors and wanted off the island (Jack's group at least). The Losties didn't try to infiltrate the Freighties by pretending to be members of the latter group; they didn't attempt to mislead them by dressing up as hillbillies; they didn't drag their women and children off into the jungle; they never took the Freighties' kid off the raft before blowing it up.

Also, the Losties were survivors of a freak plane crash who just wanted to go home, and the Others knew it. The Losties, on the other hand, know nothing about the Freighties other than their lies about being associated with Penny.

So, yeah, other than those things, just like the Others. :rolleyes:

I agree. Although my coolest new sig (check below) is tongue-in-cheek, I don't think the Losties are bad like the Others. At the same time, I think the point of this thread is when a group of people land, similar thematic elements take place. Some sort of purge takes place between two groups, then another group of people come to the Island by crash or intent.

I agree. Although my coolest new sig (check below) is tongue-in-cheek, I don't think the Losties are bad like the Others. At the same time, I think the point of this thread is when a group of people land, similar thematic elements take place. Some sort of purge takes place between two groups, then another group of people come to the Island by crash or intent.

sk8rpro - I love your siggy. I didn't notice they used the very same wording, it should give us pause, there are so many similarities between these two very different groups of people.

The groups are similar in make up ( see Eight's post, awesome line up I'd say ) and now Locke's group looks to me the same way Ben's group did in the beginning. Regardless of how it all came to be, the roles have defineately been reversed.

Side note: Why does Ben insist on annoying every single male in sight, does he actually enjoy those beatings? :confused:

:24: Ben sure does love to push people's buttons.... he would have been great as the button-pusher in the dharma station.

When Juliet and Sayid came out of the jungle with their guns, it reminded me of the scene where the Others lit up their torches...... sure there's nobody there, you're just bluffing...um, guess again....

I'm going to be watching extra hard now for other similarities, history repeating itself.

:24: Ben sure does love to push people's buttons.... he would have been great as the button-pusher in the dharma station.

When Juliet and Sayid came out of the jungle with their guns, it reminded me of the scene where the Others lit up their torches...... sure there's nobody there, you're just bluffing...um, guess again....

I'm going to be watching extra hard now for other similarities, history repeating itself.

Yeah, whether they all realize or want to admit it or not they have become "the others" -- defenders of the island.

Ben was right -- the freighties have come to kill every single living person on the island (and to claim it as their own.) If the Losties want to survive they have to defend the island, which is exactly what the island wanted to begin with.

The mad irony is that island wouldn't need the Losties to protect the island if Charlie would have never turned off the signal in the Looking Glass. The island would have remained hidden indefinitely from the Freighters and everyone else. And if it was indeed the island itself that was responsible for Desmond's flashes, then it sabotaged itself by letting Des know each time Charlie was to die, giving him an opportunity to change it. Without the flashes, Charlie would have drowned trying to save Claire (or was it the lightning strike that came first?) and never been alive to throw the switch. Ouch, my head is hurting again.

The mad irony is that island wouldn't need the Losties to protect the island if Charlie would have never turned off the signal in the Looking Glass. The island would have remained hidden indefinitely from the Freighters and everyone else. And if it was indeed the island itself that was responsible for Desmond's flashes, then it sabotaged itself by letting Des know each time Charlie was to die, giving him an opportunity to change it. Without the flashes, Charlie would have drowned trying to save Claire (or was it the lightning strike that came first?) and never been alive to throw the switch. Ouch, my head is hurting again.

Whoever said the island was giving Des flashes?

okay, did anyone else notice the HUGE similarities between the way that the Losties dealt wth the Freighties and the way the Others dealt with the Losties when they first arrived? it was most obvious in the scene where jack and kate lead miles and daniel to Naomi's body. when Jack says, "put the gun down.......my friends have a gun pointed at your head" etc. it reminded me SO much of the scene in the jungle where Zeke yells "light 'em up!!!" and suddenly the Losties see what they are really up against. Locke's group's treatment of Charolette was very much in the same vane as well, it reminded me of when Michael, Jin and Sawyer meet up with the Tailies.


so, is this just good writing/storytelling? or is this a clue as to how things are going o play out over the next three seasons? will Locke eventually be the new Ben, hiding the island from anyone who would want to find it? do Jack/Hurley become the new "bad guys", people who are trying to come to the island who will expose it's secrets? i don't know, i just thought the symbolism was so strong that it must mean something.

I could NEVER think of Hurley being anything like one of the Others. Locke, though...it's obvious Locke definitely doesn't want to be found. I could possibly even imagine him using the Mr. Friendly line ("this is our island.") as the show progresses.

I really like this analyzation. It's such a creepy thought, but fascinating as well.

I love all the similarities. But this really isn't new. If you go back to the other seasons you will see lots of similar lines being spoken from one episode to the next. I think the writers do it on purpose to remind us that while our differences are often obvious, deep down we are more similar than we may care to admit.

I've often thought it would have been interesting to have had a separate television audience that got to "see" LOST from the Others' POV before "seeing" it from the Losties POV.

That's easy...he's trying to do what he originally did with Locke down in that hatch when he pulled the "I guess we know who wears the pants in THIS family" line about Jack...

He's getting his captors to turn against each other. That's been his M.O. forever.

I'm not sure that the 815ers are the new others. But Locke certainly seems to be becoming like Ben! Notice how he uses the same M.O. He knows what people are emotionally invested in, and he exploits it to get them to do what what he wants. E.g. 1) when he tells Hurley, that needs to help convince the rest not trust naomi's people, "or else Charlie will have died for nothing." 2) when he tells Sawyer, "fine, let's execute him... right in front of his daughter." Ouch!

Of course, it was fun watching how easily Ben manipulated Sawyer as well. Sawyer tells Carl to get away from Ben, as he's just trying to get under his skin; and 30 seconds later Ben is under Sawyer's skin by talking about Jack ending up with Kate. Haha. Of course, why Ben is intent on angering people who like to beat him up is less clear.
100%
But Naomi was already there at that point. The whole point of using Charlie was to WARN everyone that someone was coming and was not who they thought they were. Since nobody would ever listen to Locke, had it not been for Charlie there wouldnt be a split and an opportunity to defend the Island. I believe that they would have eventually arrived anyways....

The mad irony is that island wouldn't need the Losties to protect the island if Charlie would have never turned off the signal in the Looking Glass. The island would have remained hidden indefinitely from the Freighters and everyone else. And if it was indeed the island itself that was responsible for Desmond's flashes, then it sabotaged itself by letting Des know each time Charlie was to die, giving him an opportunity to change it. Without the flashes, Charlie would have drowned trying to save Claire (or was it the lightning strike that came first?) and never been alive to throw the switch. Ouch, my head is hurting again.