Does anyone think Lost is going a bit stupid? I have been a devote fan from the very beginning. I saw the 1st episode when it was first aired and have watched each episode since. I just saw that last one, the other woman. I got to say that it was total rubbish.
Like nothing, NOTHING, has been explained at all. When Jack asked what is your primary mission, and the dude never answered. If I was trapped on an island and some dude crashed in a helicopter, and he didn’t answer me the first time, I’d keep asking. “ yea come on, talk, why are you really here then???” And what is Ben doing walking around the housing estate were Locke had him locked up. What’s that all about, I still can’t understand why Locke didn’t kick his weedy *** after shooting him in the back. So Ben says, “I’ll explain everything if you let me go, and walk around and walk by the dudes playing horseshoe toss, (on a desert island, weird stuff happening, lets throw horse shoes at a stick)”. So Ben puts on a tape of Pennys da kicking some dude around. Everything explained?? NO!!! Lockes character has deteriorated, Ben is just annoying, Jack is just now an idiot, aww man, it’s just so annoying now. I’m not watching it anymore. Nothing is explained. It used to be good but it’s going nowhere. The producers just making more stuff up and not explaining other things. One more thing before I go, when Ben tells Goodwin, or whatever his name is, go run to the beach after the plane crashes, Juliet and Goodwins wife have a bit of a starring match or whatever ya’d call it. That didn’t happen before. Ben said to Juliet, “oh I guess I’m outta the book club”. So when there’s continuity errors like that, the show has just lost it.

Gonna have to disagree with you here. What's great about lost is the fact that they keep you guessing. I enjoy watching it because it makes you think! I have faith that by the end of the show all the answears will be given.

Maybe instead of terming it "jumping the shark" for Lost, we should say "Lost licked the spoon." I mean, I know that didn't happen in this episode but I do think that moment was kinda the worst of the worst when it comes to the annoying stuff we are still having to deal with. And love geometry was prominent in this episode too.

well i had the same frustrations from s1 and on.

Well, if 'Jumping the shark' means having characters do things that are completely Out-Of-Character, LOST has jumped the shark several times over.

My vote for when it started would be Sayid torturing Sawyer (bit odd for a man that vowed never to torture anyone again), then banishing himself for shame at what he'd done, then trying to punch answers out of Henry Gale!

Can anyone beat that?

I dont think they will be able to explain everything, they'll forget about things and wont bother explaining them. Characters like Echo have been forgotten about. The show is going nowhere. It's annoying when they dont explain anything. Ben says, i'll tell you everything. He told Locke nothing at all!!!! Nothing. And where did that shrink disappear to when she was in the jungle. And Jack and Juliet have a little kiss, reality check here folks, your trapped on a desert island, there's black smoke, people been kidnapped, weird stuff happening, and we'll just have a little cuddle before we go into this underground gas pit.

Yea lick the spoon, jump the shark, the show is losing it's fan base here.

Whats the deal with love geometry ??

Well, if 'Jumping the shark' means having characters do things that are completely Out-Of-Character, LOST has jumped the shark several times over.

My vote for when it started would be Sayid torturing Sawyer (bit odd for a man that vowed never to torture anyone again), then banishing himself for shame at what he'd done, then trying to punch answers out of Henry Gale!

Can anyone beat that?

First off, I really don't think LOST has jumped the shark. People may disagree. I dont think so.

As for Sayid...I dont see how violence is out of character for a violent guy, trying to becomes less violent and torturous. Sayid's got his reasons. I thought they wrote him well, especially early on.

I wouldn't be that harsh. There are a couple of dud episodes in every season. Granted, this was the dud to end all duds, but don't forget it came on the tails of two cracking episodes. Lost has a habit of hauling itself back onto the rails. Nothing in TOW irreparably damaged the narrative; it was just frustrating that nothing actually happened.

i strongly disagree with everything that you just said 'sajsww'

personally, I think the show has never been better. This season has bean awesome so far.

Agreed, I'm loving Season 4.

I think this season has been great so far, on par with the first season.

As for Sayid...I dont see how violence is out of character for a violent guy, trying to becomes less violent and torturous. Sayid's got his reasons. I thought they wrote him well, especially early on.
I can see what you're getting at, but it's not like Sayid is trying to give up smoking (or some other addictive habit).

I mean, torturing Sawyer didn't work, so what made Sayid think it would be worth beating up Henry Gale? Is Sayid just a "Slow learner"?

My real complaint is this. "Character driven?" My hearse! When they need such-and-such a thing to happen in the story, they make characters do things that those character's established character wouldn't do. A serious actor who asked, "What's my character's motivation for this/that?", wouldn't get a convincing answer.

You have a point

No doubt. Its lazy writing to keep putting off explanations and having the characters claim they "dont want to talk about it" or "if you knew you'd hate me" or "'ll tell you when Im ready" or "I d be putting you in danger of I told you"

For crying out loud----are we a bunch of Idiots?

If the writers took a few more minutes they could think of much more plausable ways to stall the story or realize there actually is no reason to stall it. Hire more people if your out of ideas

This show is the best writing on TV. When people raved about Sopranos--I laughed. That show had not an ounce of depth. It was a constant repeat of exactly what happened in every episode--no different than Law and Order. Just because they curse doesnt make it brilliant

But Lost has really tanked with this episode and it just brought to the surface some of the frustrations viewers have with blatent stalling--which is written like the characters have severe mental deficiencies for not pressing their points.

Plain and simple--you stall a series when your out of ideas

This is the best season so far, but the last episode was one of the worst. I fear the next episode will be another, yeah that's what i figured with the man on the boat (the preview also gives too much away) I hope it's just temporary & they return to the brilliant writing we know they are capable of.

Sayid tortured Ben because he believed he was responsible for what happened to Shannon. Whether Sayid would realistically have been in the mind-frame to start putting the moves on Shannon in the first place is another question.

Lost is suffering from way too many chars/plots + writers strike + bad editing.

I can't stand it when a perfectly good movie/show adds soooo many characters and plots that none of them get to fully develop. I like the freighties and fast pace - but I would rather have more of the Losties, Others, and island.

Writers strike impact - obvious

editing - kate getting knocked out is a perfect example.

I actually like the new characters, I like the many layers of it. But they do leave quite a bit hanging. And I don't like the answers to be forced, which I felt happened in the last episode.

the show has just lost it.
Good one.

Well, if 'Jumping the shark' means having characters do things that are completely Out-Of-Character, LOST has jumped the shark several times over.

I have to agree that some of the major characters have changed quite a bit. It seems like the show is wandering around, stalling until the end of the season when PAWs (producers and writers) can say, "See, all this season was leading up to this. Isn't it great. Enjoy the hiatus. See ya'll in 18 months."

Yea lick the spoon, jump the shark, the show is losing it's fan base here.
Uh, you don't exactly sound like Lost's fan base. The fan base thinks the show is better than ever. And if you're expecting answers that quick, I think you must be new to the show. You get answers, but never all of them, until it's over.
100%
I can see what you're getting at, but it's not like Sayid is trying to give up smoking (or some other addictive habit).

I mean, torturing Sawyer didn't work, so what made Sayid think it would be worth beating up Henry Gale? Is Sayid just a "Slow learner"?

My real complaint is this. "Character driven?" My hearse! When they need such-and-such a thing to happen in the story, they make characters do things that those character's established character wouldn't do. A serious actor who asked, "What's my character's motivation for this/that?", wouldn't get a convincing answer.

It was established in season 1 that torturing is something that Sayid has a lot of guilt about, but keeps resorting to when it's expedient. So how do you say it's out of character for him to keep doing that? It pretty much defines his character.

Pffft i swear people always complain about the show in general after theres been a below par episode.

Yeh the episode wasn't the best, but it came after one of the best ever episodes of LOST, and it was clear this was a bit of a set up episode anyway. I have it on good record, and i haven't been spoiled either, that next weeks episode is fantastic, and so is the one after.

So quit your whining, it's the calm before the storm people. You are going to love LOST again next week, quit being so fickle.

It was established in season 1 that torturing is something that Sayid has a lot of guilt about, but keeps resorting to when it's expedient. So how do you say it's out of character for him to keep doing that? It pretty much defines his character.
Actually it was established that he was a reluctant torturer. He was initially motivated by a revenge-based sense of 'justice', then by self-preservation.

Why was he motivated to torture Sawyer and Ben? Struck me that Sayid was more motivated to prove to himself that he wasn't just an evil torturer.

Does anyone think Lost is going a bit stupid?

No. TOW was not the best episode, but stupid, no.

Like nothing, NOTHING, has been explained at all.

Nope, not much was revealed in this episode. There are 2 1/2 more seasons. I am guessing this won't be the last episode in which only a little is revealed.

Lockes character has deteriorated, Ben is just annoying, Jack is just now an idiot, aww man, it’s just so annoying now.

I'm thinking the change we see in the characters is just what the writers intended, especially Ben and Locke.

Nothing is explained. It used to be good but it’s going nowhere. The producers just making more stuff up and not explaining other things.

Let's see...this season we have learned 1) who the freighter people are and who sent them, 2) that leaving/arriving on the island causes time "issues" with those who have been exposed to high levels of radiation 3) that Widmore wants the island and knows all about Ben, 4) that Dharma knows about the island's "time travel" properties (orchid video), 5) possibly what the "sickness" is, 6) that apparently six people get off the island....and that is all I can think of right now.

I don't understand when people complain about nothing being explained. What fun would it be if TPTB handed the answers to us in a neatly wrapped package? Part of the beauty of the show is taking the info that you have an seeing where it fits into the big picture.

One more thing before I go, when Ben tells Goodwin, or whatever his name is, go run to the beach after the plane crashes, Juliet and Goodwins wife have a bit of a starring match or whatever ya’d call it. That didn’t happen before.

There was no reason to show the "staring" match prior to tonights episode. It would have meant nothing without Juliette's flashback.

I’m not watching it anymore.

k.

Pffft i swear people always complain about the show in general after theres been a below par episode.

Yeh the episode wasn't the best, but it came after one of the best ever episodes of LOST.

but see thats the thing, is that i didnt think last weeks episode was that good either. i will see this show out to the end, but i understand why people are dropping off, lost is getting a bit dumb.
i hope they can pull off the time travel thing right or its going to get really dumb. im afraid they can use the time travel thing to eplain too many things that just dont get an explanation.

Actually, it seems like this period (episodes numbering around the #6-12 area) is the traditional point for a Lost season to get kinda... well. lost. Season one was too early for such things, but in season two, I recall being told it was because several key writers were temporarily absent (working on a movie?); in season three I guess the scheduling gap was behind the slump/lull, and this time... well, somewhere I think I saw something indicating that the writers' strike could potentially affect the quality of already "completed" shows if they needed rewriting or other such last-minute attention (though at least one recent episode DID have 11th-hour changes, didn't it?!?)

Here's a list of all episodes graded lower than 8.5 by visitors to IMDB.com:

SEASON 1

1.5 8.4
1.6 8.2
1.7 8.2

1.12 8.1
1.13 8.2
1.14 8.0
1.15 8.4

1.17 8.3

1.21 8.3
1.22 8.1

SEASON 2

2.2 8.0

2.4 8.2
2.5 7.8
2.6 8.2

2.9 8.3

2.11 8.2
2.12 6.5

2.16 8.2

2.18 8.0
2.19 7.6

2.22 8.3

SEASON 3

3.2 7.9
3.3 8.1
3.4 8.2
3.5 8.0

3.9 7.0
3.10 7.9

3.12 8.4

3.14 8.1
3.15 8.2

3.17 8.4
3.18 8.4

SEASON 4

4.4 8.2

4.6 8.3

There does seem to be a bit of a pattern over the years, though not as distinct as what I was expecting. These ratings are highly suspect, though, given that episode 4.16 already has an 8.4 rating based on 96 votes, and not only has it not aired, but this season is currently scheduled to end with episode 4.15!

- mnw

When a show jumps the shark, it supposed when a show never becovers from it's gradual decline.

Yet many viwers and critics sees this season as an improvment of seasons two and three. So the term "jump the shark" has yet to apply for this show.

I really don't think that Lost has jumped the shark. I remember in season three when they showed Hurley finding the van a lot of people were like wtf was the point of that episode.. and then in the season finale we find out why.. I think there is a reason why this episode happened, we just won't know until future episodes.

Also, as I have stated before, I won't consider Lost 'jumping the shark' until they have a musical episode and then I will have to wonder!

Each season is it's own entity. If you want to see the characters getting to know each other, watch season 1. If you want to see them struggle with faith, watch season 2. If you want to see them battle the Others watch season 3. We are currently seeing them struggle with the thought of defending the island. I don't expect to get all the answers in the next episode, just enjoy each one for what it is. I thought it was great to see the Others' side of Goodwin. It was interesting. We also got to see a new station and it didn't blow up by the end of the episode like the Flame did, thanks alot Locke.

So far so good. I thought this season was moving along pretty fast. We used to have 3 episode story archs about Sawyer hiding the medicine or 2 episode adventures to try and use a radio. Compared to that, we're cruising along at a good pace.

There were those that felt like LOST was done for at the beginning of Season 3 when Jack, Kate and Sawyer were locked up. Then, lo and behold, we found ourselves heading like a speeding train into what I think was the best a television series can aspire to be.

I think, structurally, that is how TPTB plan out the season's arc. I don't think they are trying to maintain the intensity of the end of last season. They are trying to pace the intrigue in the first act of the season, setting everything in motion for what the overall theme of the season is (in this case "who gets off and why does Jack want to go back?"), move to the second act of the story which drives it to a conclusive third act, ending it on a high note but ultimately leading us with the next big question of season four.
100%
Each season is it's own entity. If you want to see the characters getting to know each other, watch season 1. If you want to see them struggle with faith, watch season 2. If you want to see them battle the Others watch season 3. We are currently seeing them struggle with the thought of defending the island. I don't expect to get all the answers in the next episode, just enjoy each one for what it is. I thought it was great to see the Others' side of Goodwin. It was interesting. We also got to see a new station and it didn't blow up by the end of the episode like the Flame did, thanks alot Locke.

So far so good. I thought this season was moving along pretty fast. We used to have 3 episode story archs about Sawyer hiding the medicine or 2 episode adventures to try and use a radio. Compared to that, we're cruising along at a good pace.

You posted before I did. Well said.

Reminds me of a poster who once wondered if the phrase, "jumping the shark" would be replaced in the future by the phrase, "found the four-toed statue." That was one of the funniest things I've read on the forum.

To answer the OP's question, no. Lost is now moving forward at a pace it never has achieved before. Characters changing? This is a good thing. I don't want 2D characters who don't change when exposed to absurd conditions. Absurd conditions? That's what makes the show a good mystery. Mystery not explained? Nope. Still some FORTY-TWO episodes left. But we are getting more pieces of the puzzle. A lot more pieces of the puzzle.

I couldn't be happier with the fourth season. The only thing that sucks is the long wait between seasons.

Ok, first off. Please don't post like you're talking from Da Hood. I can't understand half the stuff you're referring to.
Second, you're whole post reminds of Eddie Murphy's: You know, if I was a slave and Massa told me to pick cotton, I would told Massa off, jumped in my Cadillac and got outta there."
People act differently. ALL people act differently to different situations and to say they would do what YOU would do is ridiculous.
It's fin e if you don't watch. No skin off my nose. But plenty of answers have come. It's not King of Queens.
I explain to people that LOST is like roller coaster ride. You're in it for the entire ride, not just the 3 hill or the very end, but whole ride. There will be highs and lows and eventually, it will all end and you will look back and see it was a wonderful ride.

Just because the season is moving along doesn't mean we should excuse the sheer stupidity of some of the plot points. Kate getting knocked out, for instance. Why? Did Kate suddenly loose her mind? And Jack waving his gun around like a dumbass while Harper "mysteriously" disappears? Did anyone not see that coming? The writers took the easy way out on this episode.

Like nothing, NOTHING, has been explained at all. When Jack asked what is your primary mission, and the dude never answered. If I was trapped on an island and some dude crashed in a helicopter, and he didn’t answer me the first time, I’d keep asking. “ yea come on, talk, why are you really here then???” And what is Ben doing walking around the housing estate were Locke had him locked up. What’s that all about, I still can’t understand why Locke didn’t kick his weedy *** after shooting him in the back. So Ben says, “I’ll explain everything if you let me go, and walk around and walk by the dudes playing horseshoe toss, (on a desert island, weird stuff happening, lets throw horse shoes at a stick)”. So Ben puts on a tape of Pennys da kicking some dude around. Everything explained?? NO!!! Lockes character has deteriorated, Ben is just annoying, Jack is just now an idiot, aww man, it’s just so annoying now. I’m not watching it anymore. Nothing is explained. It used to be good but it’s going nowhere. The producers just making more stuff up and not explaining other things. One more thing before I go, when Ben tells Goodwin, or whatever his name is, go run to the beach after the plane crashes, Juliet and Goodwins wife have a bit of a starring match or whatever ya’d call it. That didn’t happen before. Ben said to Juliet, “oh I guess I’m outta the book club”. So when there’s continuity errors like that, the show has just lost it.


Calm down, and take a deep breath. I know that after an episode like the Constant it seems as if you've been let down. But I tell you there are many answers here that you have not yet realized you've received and you won't realize it until you're given more answers later. How do I know this? You said it yourself. You don't think the Goodwin situation happened before. That may be a plot hole or it may be a clue. There's no way you can tell that yet. They had been dropping hints about Juliet and Ben, all third season. We saw Juliet with Goodwin last season as well. The problem with the way Lost was written, particularly in season 2 and 3 is that they did a lot of stretching of the material. It is very hard to keep things straight when so much filler is applied. It's almost harder for the viewers than it is for the writers. They both have to remember all those clues spaced out over many episodes. It's not easy to focus on a situation when everyone has to go back and piece things together. Selective memory really tends to confuse things.

But I think you are in luck. I believe things will start moving much more quickly. The problem now is that you will be seeing so many clues and hints that you won't realize you've received them. I have a feeling that when you look back at this episode and others from this season you will be one of those saying "Oh my goodness, how could I have missed that?" Most of us will be in the same situation. Things will be moving at a faster pace. It will be very hard to keep up. I for one am glad we had an episode that seems to be a bit less eventful than the Constant. You really need those kinds of episodes after the big ones to catch your breath and think about what you've seen. But I have the sneaking suspicion that even these catch your breath episodes are packed with information pivotal to the show.

As for the characters Locke, Ben, and Jack -- expect more of their flaws to being revealed, maybe even to an apparently exaggerated extent, and look for those flaws to have dire consequences. We may be seeing the same flaws over again but since they are character flaws, they will only seem to get worse and have more extreme results. We are getting down to the nitty gritty. No more Mr. Nice Guys here. There will be some catastrophic events. Just remember we are heading to a point where the most reasonable and responsible character, Jack, man of science, who even though he reaches the goal he wants -- getting off the island, will end up drunk, taking trips to nowhere, wishing the planes he is on will crash, babbling like a lunatic, and screaming "we've got to go back." I'd say they've got some pretty event filled storying telling in store for us. I just can't believe they'll be able to get us there in one tell all episode.

I know it's exasperating. There will be some shows that seem pointless but later turn out to be pivotal, there will be breakthrough shows like the Constant, and there will be some shows that seem to have no point. I don't yet know which shows are which, but I think I'll wait and keep watching to the end of the 6th season to decide.

As far as im aware saiyid left the camp in season 1 after nearly killing sawyer with the knife in the shoulder. not the actual torturing act. he calimed it was the tourturing but he took it too far. and as for ben well there is no better way of getting someone to do sumthing they dont want to than tugging on their heart strings e.g. Shannon.

Just my 2 pence worth.

This thread doesn't belong in this forum. There is a whole area for those who want to come on a Lost board and wax on about how terrible the show is, and it's not in the episode forum.

You have a point

No doubt. Its lazy writing to keep putting off explanations and having the characters claim they "dont want to talk about it" or "if you knew you'd hate me" or "'ll tell you when Im ready" or "I d be putting you in danger of I told you"

For crying out loud----are we a bunch of Idiots?

If the writers took a few more minutes they could think of much more plausable ways to stall the story or realize there actually is no reason to stall it. Hire more people if your out of ideas

This show is the best writing on TV. When people raved about Sopranos--I laughed. That show had not an ounce of depth. It was a constant repeat of exactly what happened in every episode--no different than Law and Order. Just because they curse doesnt make it brilliant

But Lost has really tanked with this episode and it just brought to the surface some of the frustrations viewers have with blatent stalling--which is written like the characters have severe mental deficiencies for not pressing their points.

Plain and simple--you stall a series when your out of ideas

Now Im sorry, I dont usually post but when ***Mod edited*** appears on my monitor I have to say something....

The Sopranos not having any depth??? ***Mod edited***

***Mod edited*** The Sopranos blew me away, the depth of Tony Soprano far surpasses anything we have seen on screen with Lost apart from Ben. Watch the Sopranos ***Mod edited***

Now Im sorry, I dont usually post but when ***Mod edited*** appears on my monitor I have to say something....

The Sopranos not having any depth??? ***Mod edited***

***Mod edited*** The Sopranos blew me away, the depth of Tony Soprano far surpasses anything we have seen on screen with Lost apart from Ben. Watch the Sopranos ***Mod edited***

Uh, just to stir the pot, I think LOST is better written than the Soprano's. And yes, those characters, for the most, had little depth, Tony being the main exception. Great show though, dont get me wrong.

I disagree that the show has jumped the shark, particularly because in my opinion, we've only had two bad episodes this season: TOW and Sayid's flashforward episode. Not surprisingly, the reason that I disliked both episodes was because both appear to point the show away from the mythology and mysticism associated with the island and potentially in a direction that I don't care to see Lost go. I disliked the James Bond/Alias-esque Sayid flashforward, where the happenings on the island are now part of an international spy game. TOW was just a train wreck, from a writing standpoint, not because it didn't reveal anything, but because the plot was a mess.

I've been watching this show long enough to know to go weeks and months and years without getting answers, but certain things are starting to wear thin with me. Specifically, I dislike that the end of last season and beginning of this season started to address some of the islands mysteries, like Jacob and Smokey, but since the Freightastic Four have landed we've been getting more and more about how Widmore wants to find the Island for "Vague Supervillain Reason #242." It just seems that the writers are trying to do too much and are losing their focus as a result.

I'm afraid this episode was utter rubbish - and I can't think of a better place to convey this view then in the episode thread

Why did Charlotte knock-out Kate? Why not enlist her help instead, or any of the Losties for that matter?

Uh, just to stir the pot, I think LOST is better written than the Soprano's. And yes, those characters, for the most, had little depth, Tony being the main exception. Great show though, dont get me wrong.

So off topic, yet chiming in anyway -- sorry, but when you look at characters like Christopher and Adriana and Paulie Walnuts -- these are characters filled with depth. Plenty of depth! Granted they didn't know what to do with the Carmela, but the rest were exceptional.

And to get this thread back on topic -- Lost has not jumped the shark. Bzzz! You are wrong, sir!:biggrin:

To be honest, I don't really care to talk about Paulie Walnuts or Christopha. :)

www.sopranosmessageboard.com (http://www.sopranosmessageboard.com)

What some are forgetting is that if we kept having flashbacks or flashforwards of the same characters over and over, then the show will get stagnent and eventually become quite boring. This was the case in Season 2 and 3. The introduction of new characters that have depth like Faraday and Charlotte, Frank and Miles all add depth to the show, and for the betterment of the show. Character like Nikki and Paulo, well just made the show a bore.

I guess what I am saying is this, how many more episodes filled with Jack, Kate, Sawyer, Locke, Hurley, Jin, Sun, FLASHBACKS do you want. They were slowly killing the show. The writers and producers did a great thing by implementing Flash Forwards and by adding the new characters. Of course we all want to see more Flash Backs with Ben and now with Michael coming back, I for one want to know what has been going on with him.

I don't know if LOST has jumped the shark... but I do know that when the show is finally over in a couple years, we'll figure out just how much fluff was inserted into the series. My guess is that its at least 65% worth.

In fact, I bet that if someone had the time and energy to do it - the entire series could be boiled down to 1 DVD without losing any important parts of the story. This isn't a digg at the writers, more of a kudos actually. They've figured out a way to stretch the series out while still making it somewhat interesting to the hardcore fans. In the end, that equals more $$$ for them which of course is their motivation for writing the series in the first place.

I have to agree with most people here -- I don't think Lost has jumped the shark. Keep in mind, The Other Woman just fell on the heels of one of the best eps they ever had, which, IMO, more than anything else, made it seem a lot worse than it actually was. I was much more unhappy with the show at the beginning of S3, just because I didn't like the action with the others (too much violence, aggression, not enough of the people on the beach).

But then the show came back with a vengenance during the second half of S3, giving us some of the best eps we've ever had (FBYE, Man Behind the Curtain, The Brig, Man from Tallahassee, TTLG).

S4 has been amazingly strong -- the first few eps were excellent, fast paced, real answers (a lot of things we're just not used to ;) ). Eggtown and The Other Woman were definitely some of the weaker offerings, and I think the main issues are: overly focusing on the love quadrangle without any real resolution (that storyline is basically just treading water at this point), and silly answers to difficult questions (Kate getting off the hook so easily in Eggtown). ToW should have been set up a little better in terms of the island story with the tempest, again, the ingredients were in place for a good ep, but it just cut too many corners to get the story out.

But on the other hand, The Economist and CD were great -- pace was strong, revelations were intriguing, made sense, but still left us wanting more. And The Constant was hands down one of the best hours of TV I've ever watched, I was on the edge of my seat, I was crying ;), I was thinking about it for over a week later.

So, I definitely wouldn't say jump the shark. Plus, this week's ep looks strong and promises to be a good one.

I can remember feeling this way usually in the middle of the seasons, But they always come real hard on those last few epi's.

OP claims after being a fan for every episode, "...around and walk by the dudes playing horseshoe toss"... By the dudes? Some fan.

I hate this thread and the header for it. Anecdotally I have some people around who are just getting into LOST for the first time and they are blown away! Personally I am blown away!

I am sorry you are not enjoying it.

The show is amazing, as it has been since the pilot aired. We are getting closer and closer to all of the answers with every episode. Each week I look forward to seeing the new episode. It's exciting and surprising, and the best show on tv.

I also have to disagree, I don't think Lost has jumped the shark and I doubt very much that it ever will. Not all episodes can be amazing, there's always going to be some 'lesser' ones and I didn't think 'The Other Woman' was bad at all. I have also watched Lost since the first episode and I think so far season four is the best season since the first!

I'm curious exactly where the shark was jumped in this episode because I, for one, didn't see Fonzie on water skis anywhere in this one.

It was an episode that was doomed as it followed what was, in my opinion, one of the best episodes of the series. They had to pull back a little bit and let our weak little minds rest after all the time travelling/consciousness shifting and we got some great insight into the characters of Ben and Juliet.

Nothing has been explained? Well, last week we got the answer to "what is the sickness?" That's huge.

It never ceases to amaze me how some folks want this show to be over before it's over. The whole point to tuning in each week is to continue theorizing and thinking of the possibilities. I continue to watch BECAUSE of the mysteries. If I was spoon fed all of the answers there would be no reason to continue watching IMO.

Uh, you don't exactly sound like Lost's fan base. The fan base thinks the show is better than ever.
Generalization much? :rolleyes: I am among Lost's original fanbase and I don't think the show can ever achieve the level of season 1. (Yes, I am one of those annoying nostalgic, character-driven lover, original viewer). So has Lost jumped the shark for me? The answer is yes, a long time ago. Am I the only one? with the huge drop in ratings, I don't think so. Why do I stick around? I have no frakking idea. :rolleyes:

Yeah, but lets be honest, a few peoeple claiming Lost has jumped the shark does not a shark jump make. Sure, LOST has changed season to season, and its a good thing it has. As great as Season1 was, I'm glad the story moved on to encompass more than their simple survival on the beach. Gimme the hatch, gimme the others...everything, its all good.

I gotte be honest....as soon as Widmore looked up at the camera...I thought that the show had jumped the shark.

Why? It's become painfully obvious now how this show is going to play out.

Island is "mystical".
Hanso used island, with intentions for good. Created Dharma.
Ben and Hostiles saw corruption...killed Dharma.
Ben and Others use existing techonology/infastructure to maintain the island and their search for the island's "truths".
Losties crash.
Widmore and others trying to secure island for their own needs.
Losties must decide which "world" they want to live in. The Real world (we have to go Backkkkk!!!) or the Island world (a misunderstood utopia).
Somehow the island is saved....and by doing so...the "heroes"...save themselves.

And thats your show. Smatter some Fate/Coincidence....psedo science to make things "mystical"...and there you have it.

The show is at the midway point, and now they are starting to cement the story and start to wrap things up. I don't think that anything really will drop-my-jaw on Lost again. Regulars will get killed. Oh well, that's been done to death (pun intended).

Alot of the mysteries will never get a concrete answer, because frankly most of the theories on this board are better than what the outcomes would be if the writers where forced to come up with their own ideas anyway. I think that we as posters have done ourselves in. We can't get the reaaaaal good storylines, becuase we've already come up with them.

There are no continuity errors on Lost, given its unique Design...

I gotte be honest....as soon as Widmore looked up at the camera...I thought that the show had jumped the shark.

Why? It's become painfully obvious now how this show is going to play out.

Island is "mystical".
Hanso used island, with intentions for good. Created Dharma.
Ben and Hostiles saw corruption...killed Dharma.
Ben and Others use existing techonology/infastructure to maintain the island and their search for the island's "truths".
Losties crash.
Widmore and others trying to secure island for their own needs.
Losties must decide which "world" they want to live in. The Real world (we have to go Backkkkk!!!) or the Island world (a misunderstood utopia).
Somehow the island is saved....and by doing so...the "heroes"...save themselves.

And thats your show. Smatter some Fate/Coincidence....psedo science to make things "mystical"...and there you have it.

The show is at the midway point, and now they are starting to cement the story and start to wrap things up. I don't think that anything really will drop-my-jaw on Lost again. Regulars will get killed. Oh well, that's been done to death (pun intended).

Alot of the mysteries will never get a concrete answer, because frankly most of the theories on this board are better than what the outcomes would be if the writers where forced to come up with their own ideas anyway. I think that we as posters have done ourselves in. We can't get the reaaaaal good storylines, becuase we've already come up with them.

Yeah, you're right. Why bother watching? There couldn't possibly be anything interesting or surprising left.

Like, Sayid working for Ben... Who didn't see that coming!

Each season is it's own entity. If you want to see the characters getting to know each other, watch season 1. If you want to see them struggle with faith, watch season 2. If you want to see them battle the Others watch season 3. We are currently seeing them struggle with the thought of defending the island. I don't expect to get all the answers in the next episode, just enjoy each one for what it is. I thought it was great to see the Others' side of Goodwin. It was interesting. We also got to see a new station and it didn't blow up by the end of the episode like the Flame did, thanks alot Locke.

So far so good. I thought this season was moving along pretty fast. We used to have 3 episode story archs about Sawyer hiding the medicine or 2 episode adventures to try and use a radio. Compared to that, we're cruising along at a good pace.

Yes indeed.

Alot of the mysteries will never get a concrete answer, because frankly most of the theories on this board are better than what the outcomes would be if the writers where forced to come up with their own ideas anyway. I think that we as posters have done ourselves in. We can't get the reaaaaal good storylines, becuase we've already come up with them.
No kidding. That's why I stopped posting and reading in the spoiler board - the people over there would come up with such amazing speculation&storylines and then when the episode would air, we're like... that's it? The spoiler boards is very appropriately named. ;)

Why? It's become painfully obvious now how this show is going to play out.

I don't think that anything really will drop-my-jaw on Lost again.

Alot of the mysteries will never get a concrete answer, because frankly most of the theories on this board are better than what the outcomes would be if the writers where forced to come up with their own ideas anyway. I think that we as posters have done ourselves in. We can't get the reaaaaal good storylines, becuase we've already come up with them.

this is my major concern at this point as well, im sure a lot of casual watchers were shocked by widmore looking for the island but weve speculated about that for months so i was more like "meh".
and i also dont expect to get all the answers, and anything left unaswered could be written off as... time travelers caused/built it. how convinient.

I see both sides. I think in ways they haven't tied ends that seemed to have ended 1 season or more ago. But they have stuck with some of the mysteries, and they have started to give some answers. I do believe though, that we will not have all the answers in the end. That will be very upsetting for me.

Hello all. I've been a lurker on these boards since season one and the thing I've noticed is that every time an episode doesn't live up to a person's expectations (sometimes far-fetched expectations at that), they basically disown the entire show and call it jumping the shark. I personally don't think they're jumping the shark. They're basically spoon-feeding us the story little by little. If they answered all the questions we wanted to know in one or two episodes, then whatever's left of the show would be pretty boring.

I always thought of LOST like a really great long movie that's being shown to us 5 minutes a time; sometimes that 5 minutes is gripping, sometimes it's not. I'm all for wanting great episodes every week, but sometimes a sub-par one's gonna get in there somehow. Enjoy the ride.

Just my two cents.

It all depends on what you mean by jumping the shark. I'm not going to use that term because I still get confused on what it means. But I mean, seriously, you're criticizing Lost over this episode? What about last episode's, "The Constant"? Most people would say they've enjoyed it, except for those who either don't like time travel or for those who think it doesn't belong on this show.

Every episode and every season changes the story, so it's up to you whether or not to continue. It seems to me whenever a new season arrives, "fans" complain because last season was better. And I'll confess, even as a Lost fan I feel frustrated because I don't know where it's going.

For me, with season 4, I'm frustrated because I don't like seeing these characters get worse whoever gets off the Island. I watch the show because I like seeing a bunch of wrecks encounter some sort of redemption - but when I see redemption, and them getting worse off or back to their same lifestyle as pre-Island, I see it as tragedy.

Am I complaining? No, I'm expressing my concern. Do I have faith in the show? Yes, especially after season 3. I watch the show not to expect every episode to be good, I watch the show so I can see how the story plays out - I'm in for the ride. Wherever it takes me, I will follow.

There have been so many answers to the show, why shouldn't more be answered? But it's not about the answers, it about the experience and the character development. I think that's the way life is - it's a mystery and character development. Don't expect all of your questions answered in life.

i think people who complain about the show now answering things. should just watch something else LOST is about not giving you answer right away and if can not deal be gone with you

Yeah, you're right. Why bother watching? There couldn't possibly be anything interesting or surprising left.

Like, Sayid working for Ben... Who didn't see that coming!

benster: Thank you. That was priceless!

Regarding Kate getting knocked out: This makes some of you want to quit watching LOST? Bye, bye. And by the way, have you forgotten that all the freighter people know about her is that she is a murderer on the run from justice? Yeah, I'd distract her and knock her out, too, if she was holding a gun on me!

Regarding Sayid's struggle with himself: How many of you have resolved never to do something again, never to behave a certain way again, and done it anyway? Yeah, changing certain behaviors is a learning process. Like Locke, trusting the wrong people again and again, and making rash decisions when he feels frustrated. Yet a couple of episodes ago he stuck a grenade in Miles's mouth. Character inconsistency? I don't think so, unless you want the usual cardboard personalities present on most TV shows. LOST's characters have much more depth than that.

You want all the answers right away? Answers are for wimps! Give me more questions!

So the writers are not going to tell the story the way you want it told. It's their story; let them tell it their way. You don't like it? Don't watch it!

For many of us, myself included, it's an extraordinary and unique journey. Amazing that television can do this.

Someone earlier in this thread criticized the actors for not questioning the actions and motives of their characters. To that person, I say that there are numerous interviews with the actors, on the internet (google for the latest interview Terry O'Quinn did, for instance) or in LOST Magazine (the latest issue, for instance), that prove you wrong. Sorry.

I LOVE THIS SHOW! Even when it makes me go, "Huh???" :thumbup:

I think the question is - IS IT POSSIBLE FOR LOST TO JUMP THE SHARK?

From the beginning the show has been pretty fantastical and, while some chose to believe the writers' assertions that this will all be explained scientifically, I think most of us knew, at least after awhile, that there was no way. It's an out there sci-fi show which is extremely interesting but if you're not ready to suspend disbelief and put up with some eye rollers you're bound to be disappointed. Enjoy the ride for what it is.

As for character development, that has indeed been, at times, way too episodic and moment to moment and that is less forgivable. However, I don't know if that qualifies as jumpig the shark as much as it qualifies as just poor writing.

I think the question is - IS IT POSSIBLE FOR LOST TO JUMP THE SHARK?

From the beginning the show has been pretty fantastical and, while some chose to believe the writers' assertions that this will all be explained scientifically, I think most of us knew, at least after awhile, that there was no way. It's an out there sci-fi show which is extremely interesting but if you're not ready to suspend disbelief and put up with some eye rollers you're bound to be disappointed. Enjoy the ride for what it is.

As for character development, that has, indeed, been, at times, way too episodic and moment to moment and that is less forgivable. However, I don't know if that qualifies as jumpig the shark as much as it qualifies as just poor writing.


Good question. Take a look at this: http://www.jumptheshark.com/forum/Jumped/36

Good question. Take a look at this: http://www.jumptheshark.com/forum/Jumped/36


I did indeed. Interesting, seems many may agree with me.

benster: Thank you. That was priceless!

Regarding Kate getting knocked out: This makes some of you want to quit watching LOST? Bye, bye. And by the way, have you forgotten that all the freighter people know about her is that she is a murderer on the run from justice? Yeah, I'd distract her and knock her out, too, if she was holding a gun on me!

Regarding Sayid's struggle with himself: How many of you have resolved never to do something again, never to behave a certain way again, and done it anyway? Yeah, changing certain behaviors is a learning process. Like Locke, trusting the wrong people again and again, and making rash decisions when he feels frustrated. Yet a couple of episodes ago he stuck a grenade in Miles's mouth. Character inconsistency? I don't think so, unless you want the usual cardboard personalities present on most TV shows. LOST's characters have much more depth than that.

You want all the answers right away? Answers are for wimps! Give me more questions!

So the writers are not going to tell the story the way you want it told. It's their story; let them tell it their way. You don't like it? Don't watch it!

For many of us, myself included, it's an extraordinary and unique journey. Amazing that television can do this.

Someone earlier in this thread criticized the actors for not questioning the actions and motives of their characters. To that person, I say that there are numerous interviews with the actors, on the internet (google for the latest interview Terry O'Quinn did, for instance) or in LOST Magazine (the latest issue, for instance), that prove you wrong. Sorry.

I LOVE THIS SHOW! Even when it makes me go, "Huh???" :thumbup:

planetsong: You're welcome and I agree wholeheartedly.

I'm not one to blindly love every episode. And if you asked any of my friends, I am ultra-critical when it comes to TV and movies. But this is the kind of show where the pieces fit in like a jigsaw puzzle. Not until the final piece should we have the whole picture. And if they gave me all the answers -- or even a really big answer! -- I'd be disappointed. Jumping the shark is for when a program has run out of stories to tell and the writers resort to gimmickry. You can't jump the shark on a show like this because it is truly one large storyline.

I am in for the ride and I'm willing to give the creators the benefit of the doubt still. (But then again, I love The Constant and I thought this past episode was quite entertaining and informative, so I'm biased!:biggrin: )

benster: Thank you. That was priceless!

Regarding Kate getting knocked out: This makes some of you want to quit watching LOST? Bye, bye. And by the way, have you forgotten that all the freighter people know about her is that she is a murderer on the run from justice? Yeah, I'd distract her and knock her out, too, if she was holding a gun on me!

Regarding Sayid's struggle with himself: How many of you have resolved never to do something again, never to behave a certain way again, and done it anyway? Yeah, changing certain behaviors is a learning process. Like Locke, trusting the wrong people again and again, and making rash decisions when he feels frustrated. Yet a couple of episodes ago he stuck a grenade in Miles's mouth. Character inconsistency? I don't think so, unless you want the usual cardboard personalities present on most TV shows. LOST's characters have much more depth than that.

You want all the answers right away? Answers are for wimps! Give me more questions!

So the writers are not going to tell the story the way you want it told. It's their story; let them tell it their way. You don't like it? Don't watch it!

For many of us, myself included, it's an extraordinary and unique journey. Amazing that television can do this.

Someone earlier in this thread criticized the actors for not questioning the actions and motives of their characters. To that person, I say that there are numerous interviews with the actors, on the internet (google for the latest interview Terry O'Quinn did, for instance) or in LOST Magazine (the latest issue, for instance), that prove you wrong. Sorry.

I LOVE THIS SHOW! Even when it makes me go, "Huh???" :thumbup:

You are my new hero. Best post ever.

Quote of the year:

Answers are for wimps! Give me more questions!

*applause

planetsong: You're welcome and I agree wholeheartedly.

I'm not one to blindly love every episode. And if you asked any of my friends, I am ultra-critical when it comes to TV and movies. But this is the kind of show where the pieces fit in like a jigsaw puzzle. Not until the final piece should we have the whole picture. And if they gave me all the answers -- or even a really big answer! -- I'd be disappointed. Jumping the shark is for when a program has run out of stories to tell and the writers resort to gimmickry. You can't jump the shark on a show like this because it is truly one large storyline.

I am in for the ride and I'm willing to give the creators the benefit of the doubt still. (But then again, I love The Constant and I thought this past episode was quite entertaining and informative, so I'm biased!:biggrin: )

I Agree with you. I'm in for the ride & enjoying it all the way

PS I can't believe on that web site over 2600 folks said St Elsewhere didn't jump the shark. Speaking of gimmicktry, sheesh. If in the end Lost resorted to Hurley playing with a toy airplane & dolls in the fun house I'd say that would be jumping the shark.

LOL. You can bet the same story wouldn't so well these days. But hey, that was to 80's! Evolution of TV I suppose.

I'm afraid this episode was utter rubbish - and I can't think of a better place to convey this view then in the episode thread

Why did Charlotte knock-out Kate? Why not enlist her help instead, or any of the Losties for that matter?

I'm finding that most questions asked in this forum can be answered by quoting the show's transcript. In this case, the following bits contain the key information:

DAN: What happens if I... what if I can't do it?
CHARLOTTE: Dan. Look at me. I know you can do this. Should we get going?
DAN: Yeah.

(Daniel allows Kate to open his bag. She finds gas masks in it, and holds one up.)
KATE: Batteries, huh? What's this for--
(Charlotte pistol-whips Kate, knocking her out.)
KATE: --uhh!
(Dan looks at Charlotte.)
CHARLOTTE: What?



Now, what I see as the purpose behind this situation is that the writers are working to throw us off/build up suspense with a good cop/bad cop moment. When Dan flashed puppy-eyes at Char and asked "what if I can't do it?" and she replied with a steely assurance that he could, my assumption was that "it" referred to killing the Losties et al. Char clocking Kate and giving Dan the innocent "What?" it seemed to cement this idea, as if she was asking him "Why do you have a problem with me slugging the witch? She's gonna be dead by dawn anyhow!"



Taken in toto, this all sets things up for the scene where we're trying to figure out exactly WHAT the pair are trying to do at the Tempest. There they are wearing gas masks with the computer announcing that it's about to vent the tanks -- everything has been set up perfectly to fool us into being certain that D&C are dead-set on gassing everyone to oblvionsville.

- mnw

I Agree with you. I'm in for the ride & enjoying it all the way

PS I can't believe on that web site over 2600 folks said St Elsewhere didn't jump the shark. Speaking of gimmicktry, sheesh. If in the end Lost resorted to Hurley playing with a toy airplane & dolls in the fun house I'd say that would be jumping the shark.

I can't come down on my beloved St. Elswewhere. That was an awesome series that always battled for a place in the schedule even though it won a place in my heart. (Hallmark card, I think...)

I will say it probably jumped when Donald Westfall left the show. He was indeed the soul of the show. It all fell apart then... But I still loved that last episode! :biggrin:

Maybe it jumped the shark to get to better fishing grounds?

Just a guess.

BTW: You CAN'T identify the point where an ongoing show has jumped the shark, since the phrase refers to the moment when a previously good program begins a downhill slide in quality from which it never recovers. Until the instant that Lost concludes its run, even a musical episode wouldn't necessarily mark this point, since the writers could still possibly (unlikely, yes...) explain that episode logically and continue on to give us a great finale.

- mnw

What is this? Rotten karma?
I'm quite Lost, thanks to Dharma!
Miss my Dad, and my Marma!
Someone raise the alarm-a!
'Cause I'm Lost, Lost, Lost!!!

The best part of TOW episode was that freaking annoying BAD ROBOT at the end of the show!! So there you have it. That episode sucked, hopefully they will redeem themselves by having a couple kick *** episodes to make up for it!!

I'm finding that most questions asked in this forum can be answered by quoting the show's transcript. In this case, the following bits contain the key information:

DAN: What happens if I... what if I can't do it?
CHARLOTTE: Dan. Look at me. I know you can do this. Should we get going?
DAN: Yeah.

(Daniel allows Kate to open his bag. She finds gas masks in it, and holds one up.)
KATE: Batteries, huh? What's this for--
(Charlotte pistol-whips Kate, knocking her out.)
KATE: --uhh!
(Dan looks at Charlotte.)
CHARLOTTE: What?



Now, what I see as the purpose behind this situation is that the writers are working to throw us off/build up suspense with a good cop/bad cop moment. When Dan flashed puppy-eyes at Char and asked "what if I can't do it?" and she replied with a steely assurance that he could, my assumption was that "it" referred to killing the Losties et al. Char clocking Kate and giving Dan the innocent "What?" it seemed to cement this idea, as if she was asking him "Why do you have a problem with me slugging the witch? She's gonna be dead by dawn anyhow!"



Taken in toto, this all sets things up for the scene where we're trying to figure out exactly WHAT the pair are trying to do at the Tempest. There they are wearing gas masks with the computer announcing that it's about to vent the tanks -- everything has been set up perfectly to fool us into being certain that D&C are dead-set on gassing everyone to oblvionsville.

- mnw

thats what made it so terrible, the only reason charlotte attacked kate was becuase the writers were trying to make us think they were doing something bad. they already have trust issues and now they are trying to do something to help the losties and instead of just telling them, they sneak off into the jungle(that they dont know because they have only been there 2 days) in the darkness, and a rainstorm, then blindside attack one of them, two if you count juliette in the station, just to find out they are doing this all for your benefit. i almost wish they were trying to release it and their evil plan got foiled by our heroes.

I think the problem is...that we all know what the story is now.

Before, noone really had a firm 100%...THIS is what the show is about. Was it about the monster? Was it about the Losties getting off the island? Was it about the Others? Was it about the numbers?

All the mysteries presented new ideas for where the show would ultimatley go. What makes Lost so great is that it's a show that's going to take you somewhere that no show has ever gone...and that it will do it in a way that no show has ever done before.

Trouble is...the more the storyline unfolds...the more like every other show it becomes.

It's becoming apparant what the overall structure of the show is. Mysterious/Important/Sacred place...shrouded in mystery...protected by people fighting people that want to exploit it. And frankly all the major players have been ID'd.

Island = Ben/Losties Vs Widmore/People

Thats been obvious for a long time. The HOPE was that the writers would take the obvious and turn it on it's head. And maybe to the casual fan, thats whats happening. I think to the uber-fan, someone that has picked the clues apart...that has made the connections that have been presented, there is a sort of vindication...a sort of "Yeah, I knew this was going to happen". Thats the Holy Grail of these message boards anyway. Everyone wants to be able to figure out what's going on before it actually happens. And, well, thats whats happened.

Is it a let down? Not really...but at the same time, it's a bit like finding out Santa Claus isn't real. It was great while it lasted. You feel a bit smug as a kid because probably had figured it out anyway...but at the same time...the mystery is gone. When you find out Santa isn't real it doesn't mean Christmas isn't good anymore. But it has, for all intents and purposes...jumped the shark. You still might not be able to figure out HOW your parents got those presents under the tree. Or where they hid them. They are still unanswered questions that will surprise you in the years that will follow...but it will never be the same.

And that my friends...is my interpretation of Lost going forward.

I think the problem is...that we all know what the story is now.


Serious question:

Would you prefer to be proven right or wrong?

- mnw

What is this? Rotten karma?
I'm quite Lost, thanks to Dharma!
Miss my Dad, and my Marma!
Someone raise the alarm-a!
'Cause I'm Lost, Lost, Lost!!!

Wow! Brilliant!!! :24:

Wow! Brilliant!!! :24:

Thankyew!

I was gonna assign the lines to various characters, but I couldn't come up with any that don't hate their fathers! (ba-DING!)

- mnw

Serious question:

Would you prefer to be proven right or wrong?

- mnw

obviously proven wrong.

I love Lost and hope that it is more than what it's becoming. Alias Part II.

I wouldn't be that harsh. There are a couple of dud episodes in every season. Granted, this was the dud to end all duds,.

My vote for the Dud of all Duds: Dave. That was the most boring, idiotic ep for me. Total filler. Gah. :mad: I don't remember which season it aired in - don't want to remember.
100%
.So quit your whining, it's the calm before the storm people. You are going to love LOST again next week, quit being so fickle.

Fickle has nothing to do with it. I'm a die hard LOST fan, but that doesn't mean I don't have the right to criticize bad writing, acting, directing if that's what I see. It doesn't mean I'm fickle either. I'm right there for every episode, rewinding tape to be sure of what I saw/heard.... looking for spoilers, etc.

The main thing that bugs me about the show is that you have to search fan sites to find the extra information you kind of need to keep up with everything going on. Hardly fair for people who don't have the time or resources to be able to do that. Quite honestly, I think it's ridiculous.

I'll be seriously bummed if there aren't answers to most, if not all of the mysteries by the end of the series. :mad:
100%
The show is amazing, as it has been since the pilot aired. We are getting closer and closer to all of the answers with every episode. Each week I look forward to seeing the new episode. It's exciting and surprising, and the best show on tv.

If I were you I wouldn't be THAT confident about getting ALL the answers. I'll believe it when I see it.

My vote for the Dud of all Duds: Dave. That was the most boring, idiotic ep for me. Total filler. Gah. :mad: I don't remember which season it aired in - don't want to remember.
100%


Fickle has nothing to do with it. I'm a die hard LOST fan, but that doesn't mean I don't have the right to criticize bad writing, acting, directing if that's what I see. It doesn't mean I'm fickle either. I'm right there for every episode, rewinding tape to be sure of what I saw/heard.... looking for spoilers, etc.

The main thing that bugs me about the show is that you have to search fan sites to find the extra information you kind of need to keep up with everything going on. Hardly fair for people who don't have the time or resources to be able to do that. Quite honestly, I think it's ridiculous.

I'll be seriously bummed if there aren't answers to most, if not all of the mysteries by the end of the series. :mad:

Actually, you don't have to do any extra research to keep up. It's a choice. The extra research isn't going to help you interpret the characters' actions and motives. Gregg Nations's mantra works well here: Wait, watch and see.

I thought Eggtown was pretty light the first time I watched it, but I ended up rewatching it several times, and suspect there's a lot more going on in it than we know; it might be an episode we look back on later and think how clever; all those clues, right there in front of us!

I'm not one of those who jumps on every new tantalizing clue and immediately ascribes it to bad writing, editing, acting. Yes, my brother and I were misled when they buried Nikki and Paulo with shiny new shovels where before they had been using makeshift shovels crafted from bits of the fuselage, but Gregg Nations confessed that the shiny new shovels came from the same place as all the blue tarpaulins. At least TPTB have admitted their mistakes when they've made them. That hasn't disillusioned me in the least; it means when they keep mum, that we're really onto something!

Some see errors in logic; I see another mystery waiting to be unraveled, another piece of the puzzle.

Some see something that doesn't make sense to them and call it bad acting: I see that there is more to this situation than meets the eye. When I go back and watch previous seasons, I am amazed at how well it all holds together.

They have not let me down yet, not in anything substantial. TPTB have frankly pointed out theories that will lead nowhere interesting, much as J.K. Rowling did while we awaited each new book. (Snape is not a vampire, for instance, which she shot down because it was wrong and because speculating on it would not lead you any closer to what was really going on.) I think we can trust that our losties are not dead, not in a snowglobe, not a dream in someone's head, since TPTB have shot down all those theories.

If I'm reading a book, and I'm really not enjoying it, either because of the writer's style or because I don't like the characters, I stop reading it. There's nothing preventing any of you from waiting to watch the rest of the show in 2010, after the final episode airs, and you hear how great it was from those of us who stayed with it. Yes, I am a believer!

As for spoilers: I used to read them. I quit last year after I read that that evening's episode would include Naomi telling Hurley they found the wreckage of Flight 815 and there were no survivors. I got to that moment in the show, and my enjoyment and interpretation was colored by reading the spoiler. When you read spoilers, your reaction is affected by how someone else already interpreted it, and they could be wrong! So I've avoided most spoilers since. Silly to read them, really. Why let someone who doesn't know where the story is headed lead you in what might be the wrong direction?

Let me give a shout out to poster Jack Sawyer... I am truly honored by your previous post. It's nice to know there are kindred spirits out there!
100%
If I were you I wouldn't be THAT confident about getting ALL the answers. I'll believe it when I see it.

Um, actually, if you were, you would.

Isn't that the point? Everyone is different! Some in this thread would not have knocked out Kate; some would, and Charlotte did.

I respect the view of people who are afraid they're being led down the garden path. I know some of them; I have siblings who watched the entire run of The X-Files. If LOST were produced by the same people, yeah, I'd be worried. I think they've been more than fair with us, so far. They had me when, in the season finale to season 2, they showed that Desmond crashed the plane, which I deduced at the start of the season, when Desmond did an ever-so-slight double take when he heard how long ago the plane had crashed. If they're paying that much attention to details like that.... wow, I'm thrilled to be along for the ride.

Actually, you don't have to do any extra research to keep up. It's a choice. The extra research isn't going to help you interpret the characters' actions and motives. Gregg Nations's mantra works well here: Wait, watch and see.

As for spoilers: I used to read them. I quit last year after I read that that evening's episode would include Naomi telling Hurley they found the wreckage of Flight 815 and there were no survivors. I got to that moment in the show, and my enjoyment and interpretation was colored by reading the spoiler. When you read spoilers, your reaction is affected by how someone else already interpreted it, and they could be wrong! So I've avoided most spoilers since. Silly to read them, really. Why let someone who doesn't know where the story is headed lead you in what might be the wrong direction?


Well, I just don't agree with you, and we're going to have to agree to disagree. I prefer to find out what's going on because I'd miss half of it otherwise. Please don't presume to call me silly because I read spoilers. I have my reasons for reading them as mentioned above. I wouldn't call you silly or whatever because you don't, regardless of how I might feel privately. That's just plain rude.

If you want to be technical about it, watching the previews is like reading spoilers and they're hardly put forward by someone (or something) that doesn't know where the story is headed.

Well, I just don't agree with you, and we're going to have to agree to disagree. I prefer to find out what's going on because I'd miss half of it otherwise. Please don't presume to call me silly because I read spoilers. I have my reasons for reading them as mentioned above. I wouldn't call you silly or whatever because you don't, regardless of how I might feel privately. That's just plain rude.

If you want to be technical about it, watching the previews is like reading spoilers and they're hardly put forward by someone (or something) that doesn't know where the story is headed.

Shellelagh61, you're right, I shouldn't have written "silly" the way I did and I apologize for that. What I meant to say was that it would be silly for me to read spoilers, as I discovered by doing so that the way other people interpret what is going on is often completely different from my own interpretation of what I see. Others are welcome to have at them. I certainly didn't think I was being rude; I guess I didn't see my comments as being addressed purely to you, but I can see how you might have read it that way. No harm intended, and my apologies for accidentally ruffling any feathers.

I do watch the preview that appears right after the show, but I've learned, as I hope everybody else has, not to expect anything I see to appear in the next episode! I consider them a flavor, a taste of what might happen next week. The producers having fun with us, as it were. How many times last year did they flash Bernard's unfinished SOS at us in the preview, and so far it hasn't yet come up. I'll pursue anything TPTB say is canon, but I want to see it for myself rather than read someone else's interpretation of it first. So I don't really regard watching ABC's previews of LOST as being remotely like reading spoilers, but again, that's my own opinion. For exactly the same reason, I listen to the official podcasts when I can. And I love to read people's theories here on the 'lage. It's just that if I'm going to learn anything shocking, I want to hear it from the source. We all learn what works best for us.

Shellelagh61, you're right, I shouldn't have written "silly" the way I did and I apologize for that. What I meant to say was that it would be silly for me to read spoilers, as I discovered by doing so that the way other people interpret what is going on is often completely different from my own interpretation of what I see. Others are welcome to have at them. I certainly didn't think I was being rude; I guess I didn't see my comments as being addressed purely to you, but I can see how you might have read it that way. No harm intended, and my apologies for accidentally ruffling any feathers.I

Thank you. Apology accepted. I appreciate your comments. As for the podcasts, they're just another annoyance for me. I got tired of them. Let's leave it at that.

**EDITED**

IF anything JUMPED anyone.....

It was the SHARK that is jumping LOST!

...Why?...cause the SHARK cant handle the truth!

FOMCROTFLMAO!!!!

I don't think Lost is jumping the shark necessarily, but as a pretty huge fan (I just bought my pregnant friend a baby t-shirt with the numbers spelled out on wooden alphabet blocks:) ) I have to say, Lost doesn't haven't quite the momentum w/me as it used to.
I love it, it would have to decline pretty far, and pretty consistently in my mind for me to stop watching it altogether. Sometimes I think some of Lost's issues are that it is being told within the confines of a one hour, once a week television show. Maybe that's why we sometimes walk away feeling a bit let down. That, and the reasons already stated in this thread, writers strike, editing, etc. Each year between seasons, I will watch the previous season on DVD, all the way through, and it is brilliant, edge of your seat entertainment. Everything actually makes more since to me, and the flow of the story doesn't seem so disorganized. Except Expose. I skipped that episode in my marathon DVD viewing. I really just did not like it.

They didn't jump a shark, but they did go through the looking glass.

Part of the fun is finding out if you are a 'man or science or man of faith'. Especially right now - side with Jack or side with Locke - go with what you see and know, like Jack, or go on the faith that the Island or Jacob will make it all better.

Each year between seasons, I will watch the previous season on DVD, all the way through, and it is brilliant, edge of your seat entertainment. Everything actually makes more since to me, and the flow of the story doesn't seem so disorganized. Except Expose. I skipped that episode in my marathon DVD viewing. I really just did not like it.

I liked Expose. I thought it was brilliant to see the events from a completely different perspective! And to highlight some of the issues, like how come people don't share information with each other? Forget about Nikki and Paulo, and just watch Expose again from that perspective.

I liked Expose. I thought it was brilliant to see the events from a completely different perspective! And to highlight some of the issues, like how come people don't share information with each other? Forget about Nikki and Paulo, and just watch Expose again from that perspective.
Everyone seems to be totally divided on this particular episode! I don't think it was just those 2 that I didn't like about it, it just sort of got on my nerves! But you're right...new eyes may notice new things...maybe I'll give it another watch.

...Okay this is funny...

...The ONLY way LOST can JUMP THE SHARK is to:

A.) For TPTB to somehow twist the plot for it to coallate with Jericho...LMAO...:eek2: ...NOW that would be messed up...;)

B.) OR if our "Smokey" was in fact The Fonz!...:biggrin: ...Think about it...he could jump the DHARMA shark all day long if he wanted to...

Does anyone think Lost is going a bit stupid? I have been a devote fan from the very beginning. I saw the 1st episode when it was first aired and have watched each episode since. I just saw that last one, the other woman. I got to say that it was total rubbish.
Like nothing, NOTHING, has been explained at all. When Jack asked what is your primary mission, and the dude never answered. If I was trapped on an island and some dude crashed in a helicopter, and he didn’t answer me the first time, I’d keep asking. “ yea come on, talk, why are you really here then???” And what is Ben doing walking around the housing estate were Locke had him locked up. What’s that all about, I still can’t understand why Locke didn’t kick his weedy *** after shooting him in the back. So Ben says, “I’ll explain everything if you let me go, and walk around and walk by the dudes playing horseshoe toss, (on a desert island, weird stuff happening, lets throw horse shoes at a stick)”. So Ben puts on a tape of Pennys da kicking some dude around. Everything explained?? NO!!! Lockes character has deteriorated, Ben is just annoying, Jack is just now an idiot, aww man, it’s just so annoying now. I’m not watching it anymore. Nothing is explained. It used to be good but it’s going nowhere. The producers just making more stuff up and not explaining other things. One more thing before I go, when Ben tells Goodwin, or whatever his name is, go run to the beach after the plane crashes, Juliet and Goodwins wife have a bit of a starring match or whatever ya’d call it. That didn’t happen before. Ben said to Juliet, “oh I guess I’m outta the book club”. So when there’s continuity errors like that, the show has just lost it. Even the best shows have a dud now and then. I also didn't find TOW a great ep but no where near a Jump The Shark Moment. I'm not a Juliet or Jack fan so their stories never interest me and I think most of us had already figured out everything they showed Ben had done to Juliet and Goodwin ... I guess it was just for confirmation as we know with this show you simply can't assume. ;) But Lost has, from day one and Charlie asking "Where are we?" and getting no answer (LOL) been doing that sort of thing. It's just part of the nature of this beast. :biggrin:

Does anyone think Lost is going a bit stupid? I have been a devote fan from the very beginning. I saw the 1st episode when it was first aired and have watched each episode since. I just saw that last one, the other woman. I got to say that it was total rubbish.
Like nothing, NOTHING, has been explained at all. When Jack asked what is your primary mission, and the dude never answered. If I was trapped on an island and some dude crashed in a helicopter, and he didn’t answer me the first time, I’d keep asking. “ yea come on, talk, why are you really here then???”..........

I am reminded of political debates when it comes to Lost and it's story. You know how a politician fools people by talking around the question alot and not giving a straight answer or even answering a different question than the one originally asked? Many people are fooled by the double-talk into thinking that politician is smart while others realize that the question wasn't answered but they still they like that politician's style. Still others think, that jerk didn't even answer the question!

Lost hits me in those 3 different ways depending on the episode.

Of course my main worry is that when questions start to get answered I am going to think the answers suck. I haven't got to that point with Lost (heh from lack of answers maybe), but they fact that they are mixing time travel, "Island powers", Smokey, ghost hunting psychics and whatever Jacob is doesn't bode well for the ending that isn't whacky. However I am now invested in the characters and have to see it through.

I generally dislike the notion of "selling out" or "jumping the shark," as it's rarely a valid criticism. But, as much as it pains me to say this, it's applicable in this case.

Lost has lost sight of those things which once made it the greatest show on television. The most obvious proof is in the myriad disgruntled comments posted on these forums every day by people who were once the show's most ardent supporters, vehemently defending its merits and integrity at every turn. One might argue that this is merely a sign of changing tastes, not a decline in the overall quality of the show itself. But I don't buy it. People are ticked off because the show is, on a weekly basis, giving them reasons to be ticked off.

By and large, they're legitimate reasons. Sloppy writing (see Kate's trial); weak characterization (see post-Brig Locke); cheap tricks (see Jin's flashback); killing characters more for shock value than for serious thematic and plot-related concerns (see Jin); central mysteries that many fans simply don't care about all that much (see "Who are the Oceanic 6?"/"Who the hell cares?"); explanations that require a major league suspension of disbelief and/or violate pre-existing rules and premises (see time travel) -- this is not the Lost we fell in love with years ago. As things currently stand, it is closer in spirit to Heroes S2 or the Matrix sequels than it is to what was once one of the best TV series in history.

"Wow! I can see my shark from up here!"

***Mod edited to remove rude comment*** I can see your huge free time you have in your hands right from here!

I am reminded of political debates when it comes to Lost and it's story. You know how a politician fools people by talking around the question alot and not giving a straight answer or even answering a different question than the one originally asked? Many people are fooled by the double-talk into thinking that politician is smart while others realize that the question wasn't answered but they still they like that politician's style. Still others think, that jerk didn't even answer the question!

Except the debate is mostly enjoyable to watch, and the talking around the issue provide intruiging detours, and at times you feel deeply for the politician which makes it all worth it.

I actually didn't like the Season 3 finale, and thought fast-forwards could be a big mistake for the show, but I've really liked some of the episodes this season, and like all seasons, it has been a bit of a rollercoaster ride with some excellent episodes (like "The Constant") and some boring ones (like "The Other Woman"), with some good character actions (like Daniel Faraday investigating the island) and some obnoxious and ridiculous character actions (like Kate in Othersville). But what I find amazing about "Lost" is that even though I find Locke completely annoying right now, they'll have an episode later in the season which will change my mind about him completely and remind me why I used to like him, or even though Sawyer or Desmond or Sun/Jin or Claire can seem like background extras at times, when they get their own centric episodes, they become fully fleshed out and you feel for them. When "Lost" stops doing this, then I will consider that it has jumped the shark.

Rheems: Very well said. I wrote a post in the "Something not a question for the LOST VIPs" forum that is similar. The writers/producers need to realize why people intially tuned into the show -- the characters and how they reacted to a strange situation -- not the murky convoluted mythology that is being created in a staccato fashion. I believe that people who have been fans for a while know what the show has been and could be, and are valid for raising concerns/complaints. I don't believe in blind allegiance to anything.

Yes, we're all lucky to have the time to "worry" about a network fantasy show instead of facing real difficulties in life that would prevent such a luxury. But shouldn't that mean that we should be rewarded by those even luckier, i.e. the creative team behind LOST? This show has the potential to be great, possibly one of the top 5 shows of all time, in the most direct and widespread medium that exists, but it seems like it's been squandered.

Also, something I didn't write in the above referenced post: ENOUGH WITH THE GUNPLAY. There's more creative opportunities than just having characters wave guns or shoot people every week.

To be fair, The Island's secrets have always been a fundamentally important draw. But yes, I agree -- this show's success was founded primarily on the strength of the characters, and the writers have since lost sight of this fact, forsaking the winning formula behind S1 and S2 for something less substantial, something cheaper. I really mean it when I say Lost currently has a lot in common with Heroes S2 and the Matrix sequels, as all three share similar strands of, among other things, excessive self-indulgence; an emphasis on romantic love when, in fact, the writers really aren't all that great at handling romantic love; and -- above all else -- an apparent disconnect between what the writers regard as their respective works' strengths and what the viewers regard as those works' strengths.

S3 I could deal with. But this business about the Oceanic 6 -- GIVE. ME. A. BREAK. I mean really, what an utterly stupid mystery to structure half of this valuable season around. And what's more, for all the hoopla and fanfare around it, it seems to me that many people still don't know who the six actually are! (Poor writing will do that!) That info should have been put out there in no uncertain terms right at the beginning of this season, giving breathing room to the myriad other mysteries that were put in place long before this one.

But hey, at least folks are dying! Danielle getting shot -- that was intense! :rolleyes:

Does anyone think Lost is going a bit stupid? I have been a devote fan from the very beginning. I saw the 1st episode when it was first aired and have watched each episode since. I just saw that last one, the other woman. I got to say that it was total rubbish.
Like nothing, NOTHING, has been explained at all. When Jack asked what is your primary mission, and the dude never answered. If I was trapped on an island and some dude crashed in a helicopter, and he didn’t answer me the first time, I’d keep asking. “ yea come on, talk, why are you really here then???” And what is Ben doing walking around the housing estate were Locke had him locked up. What’s that all about, I still can’t understand why Locke didn’t kick his weedy *** after shooting him in the back. So Ben says, “I’ll explain everything if you let me go, and walk around and walk by the dudes playing horseshoe toss, (on a desert island, weird stuff happening, lets throw horse shoes at a stick)”. So Ben puts on a tape of Pennys da kicking some dude around. Everything explained?? NO!!! Lockes character has deteriorated, Ben is just annoying, Jack is just now an idiot, aww man, it’s just so annoying now. I’m not watching it anymore. Nothing is explained. It used to be good but it’s going nowhere. The producers just making more stuff up and not explaining other things. One more thing before I go, when Ben tells Goodwin, or whatever his name is, go run to the beach after the plane crashes, Juliet and Goodwins wife have a bit of a starring match or whatever ya’d call it. That didn’t happen before. Ben said to Juliet, “oh I guess I’m outta the book club”. So when there’s continuity errors like that, the show has just lost it.

It has been widely believed that they will explain in the end (and certainly not now) but it won't be so obvious as Rod Serling, Faraday, Jack or anyone else for that matter closing the show with a speech addressed directly to the audience at the end of the series giving us 100% certainty & closure to the debate here & 100s of other boards & water cooler conversations. It won't be so obvious as when Kujan in the Usual Suspects reads the corkboard and suddenly realizes that Verbal's story, from the beginning to the end, was masterminded completely from names and memos on a corkboard & a Kobayashi coffee mug. Or the final episode of St. Elsewhere where the story ended in a context different from every other episode of the series. Where Tommy is playing & the toy is revealed to be a snow globe with a replica of St. Eligius hospital inside & the camera closes in on the snow globe. There's an old show from the 60s, "The Prisoner" who's ending is still being debated today. So if one expects Lost to end with the writers or one of the characters sitting Jerry Springer style at the end explaining the story in plain english or "That's the story & I'm sticking to it" ending..... well, if that's what one is looking for you're watching the wrong show.
It would behoove the writers & anyone who directly benefits from this show ($) for the debate to go on & on. And if one believes they will fully explain it with 100% certainty IMO an ending such as that would completely differentiate from the style, limited dialogue between the characters & less than open conversational style of the show for the past 4 years. That, IMO would "jump the shark" Which one of us is "right" won't happen. Yes some will think they're right & some will also think they're right & so on & so on. They will close it with a continued debate on Science vs Faith. It won't be 100% clear & the boards, movie, game, thesis, books, web sites, legend.....will go on. For fans who want an "answer" they will think they "get it" but ah therein lies the genius of Lost.

Rheems,

You nailed it with your March 21 post. I've been rewatching Season 1 over the last couple of weeks, and many of the best episodes end with the Losties sitting on the beach talking to each other while some Jack Johnson song plays. I don't even like Jack Johnson, and those scenes are meaningful because they portray human beings making human connections.

The cliffhanger/teaser/banal mystery (like the O6) has replaced the story of characters facing their faults and connecting, and the show has suffered.

Rheems,

You nailed it with your March 21 post. I've been rewatching Season 1 over the last couple of weeks, and many of the best episodes end with the Losties sitting on the beach talking to each other while some Jack Johnson song plays. I don't even like Jack Johnson, and those scenes are meaningful because they portray human beings making human connections.

The cliffhanger/teaser/banal mystery (like the O6) has replaced the story of characters facing their faults and connecting, and the show has suffered.


Yeah, but we're past sitting around the campfire. That only plays for so long when there's a monster and hostiles running around. I do wish they would reflect once in while though. Its absurd to think that everything these people say to eacthother is contained in a 3 word sentence.

Personaly I think Season One was, by far, the weakest writing in the show and I dont think the writers would disagree. Dont mistake something "New" as being better writing. Its just new to us. Go back and watch some of that stuff..there is ton of crappy episodes with dead end leads going nowhere..Skills have increased since then

Go watch this three episode stretch in season 3----- I Do, Not in Portland, and Flashes before your eyes. There isnt anything in season 1 that could touch that. And when you consider we actually learned almost nothing in I Do and Not in Portland and 2 of the 3 were flashbacks from newer characters...thats quite a feat.

Im actually not kidding....anyone... just go right now and watch those 3 in row and tell me that writing and execution cannot destroy anything in Season 1:biggrin:.

The operation and escape drama was flawless in execution--and Not in Portland was a masterpeice in theme writing and it was pulled off by the actors.(thats important). And Flashes..come on. You've got an entire episode that contains mostly people you never see on Lost and it was brilliant.

Thats said--"The Other Woman" IS the all time worst episode in Lost history. It was like a big deleted scene. It actually started good but just drifted into absurdity where nothing on the screen was believable.

and to the person who told the poster to stop whining. I think we can all say with confidence. Shut-up. :) ..I kid.... but Its not whining to point out bad writing or execution when it surfaces. We're not fools. The point of moving to 16 episodes and defining an end point was to completely eliminate bad filler episodes. yet..we have the worst lost episode delivered.

Man, i love Jack Johnson but there's never been any Jack on LOST. You must be thinkin of Ben Harper.

According to this guy:

http://www.have-dog.com/lost/

There's never been any Jack Johnson or Ben Harper. It's probably Damien Rice.

Burger,

I agree that those episodes (I do, Portland, Flashes) are great episodes, and Portland and Flashes are probably the best playing with your head episodes in the third season. I'm arguing, ultimately, that the show is better when it focuses on relationships than when it focuses on playing with your head. This could be a matter of taste, of course.

The mysteries and plot twists are beloved of fanboys who dominate the Lost message boards. However they are a minor part of the Lost audience. Season 4 is losing viewers fast because these mysteries and plot twists have taken over the show at the expense of the characters and relationships who the audience loved and kept coming back for.

Now the characters are exposition monkeys with no story arcs except to be dumb victims and losers and tools of Ben and Whidmore. Nearly all the relationships are destroyed in nasty or violent ways. Nothing or nobody to root for.

It's The Ben Show now, all about him, he is the driver of all action and plot. The island used to be a central powerful character but even that is now a dim memory in The Ben Show. But Ben is nowhere near a character that can carry a show. Audiences don't want a show centering on a charmless, unlikeable, unfriendly sociopath.

The mysteries and plot twists are beloved of fanboys who dominate the Lost message boards. However they are a minor part of the Lost audience. Season 4 is losing viewers fast because these mysteries and plot twists have taken over the show at the expense of the characters and relationships who the audience loved and kept coming back for.

Now the characters are exposition monkeys with no story arcs except to be dumb victims and losers and tools of Ben and Whidmore. Nearly all the relationships are destroyed in nasty or violent ways. Nothing or nobody to root for.

It's The Ben Show now, all about him, he is the driver of all action and plot. The island used to be a central powerful character but even that is now a dim memory in The Ben Show. But Ben is nowhere near a character that can carry a show. Audiences don't want a show centering on a charmless, unlikeable, unfriendly sociopath.

While I don't think Lost has jumped the shark I tend to agree with the Ben observation. I hope it's Ben in the coffin, show us how he died & bring him on in small doses only. Or Locke puts him back in the closet & he stays there for good. Ben is an evil psycho. A great actor. He plays psychos very well but I'm sick of him. I do like them playing with our heads though. I like researching science, philosophy, history etc. I don't much like the love interest aspect that much except for Desmond & Penny because there's some mystery there. Well, a little Ben goes a long way. He was interesting when his character was first introduced & for a little while, but I'm just about done with him.

The mysteries and plot twists are beloved of fanboys who dominate the Lost message boards. However they are a minor part of the Lost audience. Season 4 is losing viewers fast because these mysteries and plot twists have taken over the show at the expense of the characters and relationships who the audience loved and kept coming back for.

Now the characters are exposition monkeys with no story arcs except to be dumb victims and losers and tools of Ben and Whidmore. Nearly all the relationships are destroyed in nasty or violent ways. Nothing or nobody to root for.

It's The Ben Show now, all about him, he is the driver of all action and plot. The island used to be a central powerful character but even that is now a dim memory in The Ben Show. But Ben is nowhere near a character that can carry a show. Audiences don't want a show centering on a charmless, unlikeable, unfriendly sociopath.

About half way through the third season, you could tell who was running the storyline: Ben.

And to think that Ben was originally just a minor character and now everyone else is taking a backseat to not only him, but now we have Widmore to contend with, The Freighters and their mission, the omnipotent and omnipresent Oz... huh... The Island.

As far as I am concerned, to take an entire season to know why the o6 (I won't even use caps because there was too much time wasted on trying to figure who they were. BFD!*) need to get back and then another season to see what happens when they get back is really stretching the story past it's lifetime. Just put those two season together and let's be done with it.

When PAWs (producers and writers) say that they have all these stories to tell, I say, "Well then, tell them and stop wasting time with subplots and goofy love relationships and get on with the story."

P. S.
Here's my recipe for a really good Lost Soup:Take out Kate.
Add more Hurley and Sawyer.
Trim the freighters.
Sprinkle with more Claire and Rose.
Give Jack back his backbone so he can lead again.
Give Locke a sense of direction and renew his interest in the Island Mysteries.
Bring back Richard.

Serve with a side order of Sun and Jin.

And if all that doesn't please your palate, add more Vincent.

* Big Fraking Deal. Hey BSG is coming back this Friday. Yeah! There's a story you can follow.

I just find it so funny that in all the several dozens of show forums I've been through since 85 (on usenet and BBS's and then web forums) the show always seem to go downhill just after the first year.

I think people create an idealized version of the show in their head and have a problem moving on. This happens less to characters in sitcoms where to
the overarching plot is most often just a slowly moving
background for the episodes hijinks.l

In books and which even at 1000 pages can be read in a few days, there's not this incredbily delayed release which builds so much over such a long period of time.

The only analogy I can find to lost are the books released in serial forms in the 19th century. Many major works were released that way. I think Lost is in many ways similar to Jules Vernes Mysterious Island who was released in serial form I think in the 1870's. It started with a wrecked balloon and man against nature but slowly vered towards something else with at the end the nautilus saving everybody's *** as nature reasserts itself and the island blows itself.

I just find it so funny that in all the several dozens of show forums I've been through since 85 (on usenet and BBS's and then web forums) the show always seem to go downhill just after the first year.

I think people create an idealized version of the show in their head and have a problem moving on. This happens less to characters in sitcoms where to
the overarching plot is most often just a slowly moving
background for the episodes hijinks.l

In books and which even at 1000 pages can be read in a few days, there's not this incredbily delayed release which builds so much over such a long period of time.

The only analogy I can find to lost are the books released in serial forms in the 19th century. Many major works were released that way. I think Lost is in many ways similar to Jules Vernes Mysterious Island who was released in serial form I think in the 1870's. It started with a wrecked balloon and man against nature but slowly vered towards something else with at the end the nautilus saving everybody's *** as nature reasserts itself and the island blows itself.

I agree with you. The first year you will see character development and the second and third are devoted to plot and storyline.

However, I believe that most of the complaints are aimed at the plot and storyline not moving forward. So far this season, we have seen the same old love relationships (Jack + Kate + Sawyer + Juliet + Ben...), we have seen poorly written scripts (Eggtown, The Other Woman) bad storytelling devices (FB and FF in Ji Yeon, and Meet K. J.).

At this point, we seem to be stuck in limbo between thinking that we've have had really bad episodes and they will continue to be so and the idea that we are being set up for something big. I am hopeful of the latter.

This has been the best season of LOST since season 1.

Period.

this show needs to give answers, this is like when you give a book a chance because it has potential then get to the end and then you get mad because it was such a horrible piece of crap, please oh please get to the underground tunnels, explain the mystical island, show us what the heck you are supposed to be writing about and stop all of the drama, heck i am beginning to hate flash foreward/backward scenes as well. GET TO THE FRIGGING POINT AND TELL A REAL STORY AND LEAVE OUT ALL OF THE GENERAL HOSPITAL!

I totally agree that LOST is jumping the shark (if it hasn't already). I too have watched since the first time the pilot episode aired in Sept 2004 and have been very disappointed in the path they are taking this year. Actually, my disappointment started last season. While individual episodes are good, the underlying themes of faith vs science and personal stories of the original Lostaways have quite literally gotten lost. And, it's ridiculous that they keep adding more people to the island. It's quite clear that most of the original writers are no longer on the show, and that the producers never had a "grand plan" for the entire show.

I'm really disappointed that the show has become more "Ben-centric." I want it to get back to it's roots from the first season. And, I'm sorry but they do need to make more of an effort to tie things together. The burning question for me these days...does Jack ever find out that Claire is his sister?

Whether it's jumped the shark or not, I will stick with the show until the very end. I've got way too much invested now to stop watching. But, I hope they don't completely ruin it by continuing down the path of a really expensive science experiment gone wrong.

I totally agree that LOST is jumping the shark (if it hasn't already). I too have watched since the first time the pilot episode aired in Sept 2004 and have been very disappointed in the path they are taking this year. Actually, my disappointment started last season. While individual episodes are good, the underlying themes of faith vs science and personal stories of the original Lostaways have quite literally gotten lost. And, it's ridiculous that they keep adding more people to the island. It's quite clear that most of the original writers are no longer on the show, and that the producers never had a "grand plan" for the entire show.

I'm really disappointed that the show has become more "Ben-centric." I want it to get back to it's roots from the first season. And, I'm sorry but they do need to make more of an effort to tie things together. The burning question for me these days...does Jack ever find out that Claire is his sister?

Whether it's jumped the shark or not, I will stick with the show until the very end. I've got way too much invested now to stop watching. But, I hope they don't completely ruin it by continuing down the path of a really expensive science experiment gone wrong.

If it never jumped the shark before, it certainly did so in this episode, with the smoke monster being sent by Ben to go kill goons in the jungle. This is drama? Wow, I’m so impressed with the intelligent writing and creativity, gang. Bravo! Give them an Emmy!

I'm not one for glibly throwing around accusations of shark-vaulting, but the moment the RPG blew that hut to smithereens the phrase leapt into my mind...

Hmm, i don't think it has jumped the shark just yet. The last episode did give a transition from "even the best cowboys have daddy issues" to "even the best daddys have cowboy issues" and violence was geared up a notch with the gruesome execution of Alex, but all in all...that does not mean it will stay this violent every coming episode,

Yet, as some of you pointed out so well before, you cannot decide if a show has jumped the shark before it is over, So I just stick around for the ride.

... geared up a notch with the gruesome execution of Alex, but all in all...that does not mean it will stay this violent every coming episode...

I thought Alex's execution was tastefully done.

We hear a *POP* and then a quick cut to Alex collapsing to the ground.

Gruesome is the first 24 minutes of Saving Private Ryan.

No shark jumping.

I have been longing to say this for a while now. I think that this season has really driven Lost farther in one direction than the past three seasons put together (Even if you don't like the direction its taking!). The first three seasons seemed to drag endlessly on and on. Even though I enjoyed delving deep into each of the characters....I was getting sick and tired of seeing the smoke monster show up and just vanish and be like what?!? What is the point of that? Or watching Kate run around the entire perimeter of the jungle and hanging from trees and kissing jack and then sawyer....at least now, she's calmed down a bit.
Or seeing Richard during the 70s and then the present and you're like what? Who is this guy? Or seeing a purple sky for a few minutes and then for a whole season wondering what the consequences were of that other than Desmond's flashes.
So, this season has answered a lot of my questions even though I still have many more questions left to be answered. I find it a bit refreshing to take a brief 13 episode interlude and get down to some action and bold answers. I know it's not what we're used to. But I feel like this season's fast pace is gearing us up for what should be two seasons worth of more deep searching into the minds and footsteps of our beloved characters, both present, old and new. Hopefully! Come on creators of Lost, don't let us down!