Like I said elsewhere, I'm bored.

Was anyone else laughing at Kate's outrage that Juliet's been lying? (She was pissy for her own reasons methinks...) Pot meet kettle.

And then she draws her pregnant friend a map to go to the guy who's going to KEEP them all on the Island and the other guy who's a psycho becasue Sun is anxious to get OFF the Island. Not only that, but Kate just came back from Team Crazy and knows how whacked things are there.

Well, Kate doesn't lie all of the time... just most of the time... ;)

Yeah, I thought it was very funny, and yet very in step with Kate's character, especially as of late.

Yeah, I thought it was very funny, and yet very in step with Kate's character, especially as of late.

Unfortunately, you're right.

My theory is that she got exposed to radiation while on the run and now her 1989 conscience (the Kate we heard on the tape she buried with Tom) timetraveled into her body and that's why she's been acting like a petulant teen for so long. Beat THAT with a stick! :biggrin:

Wow, that's some thinking right there! If that's true, and the writers pull it off correctly, they're getting an Emmy.

I would have considered it funny if it weren't for all the crap it led to for Sun, Jin, and Juliet. Kate can be jealous and hypocritical all she wants in her stories and normally I just laugh at her, but they have bigger problems than Kate's issues. I wanted to smack her. Can you tell I'm so over Kate it's ridiculous? :p

My theory is she got dropped multiple times as a baby. Brain damage.

I don't care for the Kate character, but that aside... everything she said to Sun is stuff that is justifiably the main thing on her mind, I took it that Sun was just "asking the right question at the right time" or the wrong question as it were. Kate is on her own to figure out what's going on and doesn't trust anyone anymore... I'd probably be a bit spiteful too in her position, she's damned if she leaves, she's damned if she stays.

Eh, she's just got a hate-on for Jules because of the whole Jack thing.

Yeah, Kate's pretty much on her own. I love how platonic and awkward her conversations with Jack are now. Maybe they we're always like that...

Kate is the worst character on the show. i dont know if it is the writing or her acting or what... i hope we don't see anymore of her after this season.

I'm glad I'm not the only one who is so incredibly annoyed with Kate. She's so self-righteous and yet almost constantly wrong. "She hit knocked me unconscious" Boo freaking who Kate, stay out of things once and a while!

Yeah, Kate has been getting on my nerves a lot lately. I thought it was surprising that (knowing about the pregnant women die thing, I presume) she would just tell them the way and not attempt to talk Sun out of it. I mean, even if they both doubt Juliet's truthfulness, is this, (ie. your life) a risk you really think is wise to take?

She's so self-righteous and yet almost constantly wrong.
Well... she was right about Naomi's false trail. But other than that, she has been wrong a lot and annoys the heck out of me lately too. What's up with her hair? Maybe Dominic Monaghan had some kind of deal that if they kill him off, they had to make Evangeline Lilly look rediculous for the first half of the new season? (I don't really think that, but man...):confused:

Kate doesn't trust the freighters, and can sympathize with why Sun wants to be far away from them. She doesn't really know how whacked out things are in Locke's camp. She didn't witness the grenade scene or Ben being set free. If it weren't for Locke kicking her out and Sawyer pressuring her for sex she would probably rather be there.

I didn't think there was anything weird, or funny, here. Sometimes I think Kate is misunderstood, and I dont understand all the hate towards here (regardless of whether she seems to flip-flop between two men...how is this not realistic?)

But that aside, I do feel she doesn't trust the Freighties...why would she? I think Sun's appraoching Dan on their intentions did wonders for expressing what is probably on alot of the Losties minds...including Kate's (she was there when they first discovered the discarded box with the masks in it too).

I think Eyris & Jack Sawyer have it right. Kate does have her flaws, like everyone else on the island, but I don't see her telling that many lies. She seems to tell the truth more than some of her fellow castaways and certainly more then the Other's in general.

It is kind of ironic that Kate would be the one pointing out Juliette's lies, considering how she married someone with a false name and a whole lot of other lies to go with it. She's been lying and running for years. I can understand her not trusting the freighter people, but allowing Sun to die on the island? Come on!

It is kind of ironic that Kate would be the one pointing out Juliette's lies, considering how she married someone with a false name and a whole lot of other lies to go with it. She's been lying and running for years. I can understand her not trusting the freighter people, but allowing Sun to die on the island? Come on!

I dont believe Kate knows the specifics of Sun's situation; she was not present down below in D.O.C. It was a Sun and Juliet moment.

As for Kate's lies...honestly (and at risk of sounding like adam90210 here) give the girl a break, she's a fugitive who is doing what she has to to stay alive and undetected. Worse things have happened in the world.

I dont believe Kate knows the specifics of Sun's situation; she was not present down below in D.O.C. It was a Sun and Juliet moment.

As for Kate's lies...honestly (and at risk of sounding like adam here) give the girl a break, she'sa fugitive who is doing what she has to to stay alive, and undetected. Worse things have happened in the world.


Worst things than marrying a police officer while lying about your name and entire background. Hmmm....IMO that's pretty low.

Worst things than marrying a police officer while lying about your name and entire background. Hmmm....IMO that's pretty low.

Meh. Big deal. Who's to say you or I wouldnt do the same thing to avoid prison for crimes that are somewhat morally justifiable?

Forget her pre-Island life. Her AND Sun poisoned a father desperate to take his child off Craphole Island and got away with it with an oopsie... we poisoned the wrong guy. So Kate and Sun getting outraged about someone's lies is like Locke condescending to people, calling them crazy cause they follow Tall Ghost Walt.

The whole plot was a bit ridiculous since if you're Sun I can't possibly imagine how Locke and Ben are going to solve your problems. Kate was right there when Miles told Jack they're there for Ben and Miles later told her he's right where he wants to be, where Ben's at. So...

Kate doesn't trust the freighters, and can sympathize with why Sun wants to be far away from them.

...by sending her towards the freighters' primary objective? Gee, I wonder if the people you don't trust are going to try to snatch Ben from Otherville at one point.

Not only that, but... Team Nerd just deactivated your enemy's weapon of mass destruction and she thinks they did it "to score brownie points"? Really? Sure, Kate, they're there to impress you.

Kate does NOT work as a voice of reason, regardless how good of a reason she has to distrust the freighties (and the brownie points really aren't it) because she comes across a jealous, spiteful watercooler gossip. Didn't we see her scare off Sun in DOC about the tall blonde who stole one of her boyfriends? Sun ended up trusting Juliet and going alone with her into the jungle for her ultrasound and she ended up trusting Juliet here as well about the Island killing her from the inside. Cause... it happens to be true. So I guess not even her bff bothers that much with Kate's judgement calls when all is said and done.

I dont believe Kate knows the specifics of Sun's situation; she was not present down below in D.O.C. It was a Sun and Juliet moment.


Good point, I suppose that does help explain it, along with her distrust in Juliet. I can't seem to remember how much Kate does know, actually. I assume she knows about the pregnancy(?) but may not know about the DOC or specifics of the pregnancy danger?

What's up with her hair? Maybe Dominic Monaghan had some kind of deal that if they kill him off, they had to make Evangeline Lilly look rediculous for the first half of the new season?

I know! Its gotten absolutely giant and bushy. Very strange, and not too flattering. FF hair, however, = goodness.

Worst things than marrying a police officer while lying about your name and entire background. Hmmm....IMO that's pretty low.But is it lower than Ben's lies to Juliet that resulted in her being trapped on the island? Worse than when Locke lied to cover for his Father resulting in the death of the con victims son? worse that the multitude of lies Sawyer has told about who and what he is destroying several marriages during his cons, worse than when Jack covered for his drunken father who was operating on people? Worse than Michael's lies when he was setting up the murder of a fellow castaway? Worse than Sun's lies when she was having an affair? Worse than Jin's lies about his family when he first met Sun? etc. etc etc for other characters. Kate is no worse than most of the rest of the characters in this regard and better than many of them.

I know! Its gotten absolutely giant and bushy. Very strange, and not too flattering. FF hair, however, = goodness.

I strenuously disagree. Kate looks great on the island. I don't find her attractive at all in the FFs.

I totally forgot about Kate and Sun poisoning Michael. No morally justifiable crime going on there.

Never trust a person if you dislike their hairdo? OK I really buy that. :rolleyes:

You can't trust a person who shows lapses in judgment? Well that's more like it! That's the reason I don't trust anyone on the island Lostee, Other or Freightliner. They must all be liars who can't be trusted. :biggrin:

Which main character can we point to as not having lied? :confused:

The whole plot was a bit ridiculous since if you're Sun I can't possibly imagine how Locke and Ben are going to solve your problems.

I dont look at it that way. I really enjoyed the scene where Sun confronted Daniel, wanting to know what they were there for. I felt she probably spoke for alot of the Losties on the beach, who really didn't know how to understand their new found companions. After all, whether or not they were they to help or hurt them was the topic of much debate (see TBOTE). So the way I understood Sun's decision, it wans't so much that she thought Locke would solve all her problems, but rather she didn't trust the Freighties and wanted to get the hell out of Dodge, retreat to the interior and wait for another opportunity to get off the damn island.

I agree wholeheartedly with Jack Sawyer and eyris

That is so interesting that it is as if she went back in time to 1987. It certainly didn't
seem to be like her current self. She currently would be more mature and not
take her jealousy to a point that it would harm Sun. Could the Oceanic Six be
having little time jumps?

Okay, this is my first post, please be kind :).

Okay, this is my first post, please be kind :).

Then why does it say THREE posts in your profile right NEXT to your statement about this being your FIRST?

You LIE, you LYING LIAR of LIETOWN!!! You LIE next to your alLIES in a LIAR's LIEbrary, scrubbing yourself with LYE and eating LIE-ma beans!!!!!

- mnw

(Hmmmm... Waitaminnit!! Maybe the Lima beans were, like the message slipped in the doorway, a warning to Desmond & Sayid that the CAPTAIN is a LIAR!!!)
__________________________________________________ _______________________

"Call any vegetable, and the chances are good that the vegetable will respond to you!"

- F. Zappa 1967

I think Kate was plain dumb the whole season (not that she was better the last season). She's like a child who thinks that "I have every right to do everything. I can lie, I can hide facts, I can hurt people, I can kill, I can use people but I want people to listen, trust, love me no matter what I do. All the other liars, killers in the world are not trustable but I am". She has no empathy. Me, me, me, me. Seeing the same things over and over even in the 4th season is so frustrating.

And now she's hiding another fact. Did she tell Jack that Miles made a deal with Ben??? For 3,2 millions!!! That's a big information about the freighters but she waits, just like she did when they found the medical hatch with Claire. She told Locke because he asked but now she wants people to doubt the freigthers and she doesn't use this information. Ridiculous and unbeliveable...

I think Kate was plain dumb the whole season (not that she was better the last season). She's like a child who thinks that "I have every right to do everything. I can lie, I can hide facts, I can hurt people, I can kill, I can use people but I want people to listen, trust, love me no matter what I do. All the other liars, killers in the world are not trustable but I am". She has no empathy. Me, me, me, me. Seeing the same things over and over even in the 4th season is so frustrating.

And now she's hiding another fact. Did she tell Jack that Miles made a deal with Ben??? For 3,2 millions!!! That's a big information about the freighters but she waits, just like she did when they found the medical hatch with Claire. She told Locke because he asked but now she wants people to doubt the freigthers and she doesn't use this information. Ridiculous and unbeliveable...

She didn't tell Jack because he's getting close to Juliet. She's jealous and selfish and is withholding information due to a grudge. She is putting herself before the rest of the people she's come to know. The same people that have given her chance after chance, and yet she acts so childish. I'm pretty sick of Kate lately. She proves over and over that she can't be trusted and yet she acts like she should be included in everything. I was really mad when she told Jack about Naomi. She specifically said that they didn't tell Jack because they don't trust him anymore. But what she does is prove that they shouldn't have trusted her. She never listens to what Jack says, and it's obvious why their relationship has been strained. I mean, Jack's plans usually fail, but even when she doesn't listen to Jack she usually messes up as well. I don't even know what to think about a lot of the characters anymore.

I don't even know what to think about a lot of the characters anymore.

They are not characters, they are puppets who act according to what their masters tell them to do eventhough how much they do or don't (most of the time) is illogical.

I dont look at it that way. I really enjoyed the scene where Sun confronted Daniel, wanting to know what they were there for. I felt she probably spoke for alot of the Losties on the beach, who really didn't know how to understand their new found companions. After all, whether or not they were they to help or hurt them was the topic of much debate (

The only problem with Sun confronting Daniel is that the dialogue suddenly stops at a dramatic high note and I am always wondering.. so what else did he say? I mean, did he just walk away.. and why didnt she follow him around until she got a straight answer.. They ARE on an island..he cant go very far before he starts talking sense. I would be there in his face saying,"See, here..." or "Yeah, yeah, but why.. who? ... when?"(HOLD THAT FADE TO BLACK!!) until somebody somewhere someday gives a real and concise answer. It is great to hear questions but I wouldnt let anybody get a wink of sleep until I got an answer that made sense..

As to kate holding hte ben-miles deal from jack i got 2 simple words.... bargaining Chip its all she does she holds and waits and waits and then springs it to get her self ahead one more time or out of trouble shes a sneak... but i dont hate her character at all like many people seem to... maybe shes just way to beautiful

I've come full circle with Kate in only 7 episodes - from bouncy excitement that the hard-as-nails threat was back and had a 'Locke problem', to 'if she hasn't ingested a bottle full of stupid pills...', she must be deliberately spreading descent in Camp Beach.

If you told me now she was secretly working for John and their set-to in front of Claire staged... I'd believe it. I don't understand how she got so stupid so quick. She HAS to be up to something. I hope. :undecide:

Wow. Kate sure gets on some people's nerves.

I thought it was cute how she was painted as a voice of reason despite the fact that she is, as things stand right now, utterly idiotic, incompetent and useless.

I found it funny as well. Because,the thing that bothers me about Kate the most is that she seems to really think her crap doesn't stink. That somehow her lying, stealing, and killing is different and special and just misunderstood. Ugh. That's why it was so awesome when Sawyer called her out in Eggtown and any time something gets thrown in her face.

Don't get me wrong. I don't think Kate is completely useless, as petty as she's been so far this season and in the past. There's a core of a good person there, but it has yet to be expressed in a truly valuable way. I'm still holding out that they'll write her in a more redeeming, stronger light and make her a Kate I could admire.

Welcome to the Fuselage, Annie! I was just joking about the timetraveling thing. :lol2:

I found it funny as well. Because,the thing that bothers me about Kate the most is that she seems to really think her crap doesn't stink. That somehow her lying, stealing, and killing is different and special and just misunderstood. Ugh.

I spent the first year as a LOST viewer desperately trying to like, no LOVE her and understand her and reading countless explanations of her psyche and why she was such a poor victim and a sweet gal who just happened to kill a guy to protect her mom. I've been rewatching the show over the hiatus and erm... no. WKD was the point of no return as far as I'm concerned. Whereas Sawyer at least threw up and felt bad for twenty minutes before he started a contest with I Lost My Best Friend Two Days Ago Hurley for the title of fastest healing after a trauma, Kate still thinks she's some kind of misunderstood hero just because the guy she burned alive was an awful man. Even at her trial, she acts... offended that her mom ever dared to not be anything but grateful for her for blowing up everything she owned, alongside her (jerk) husband.

So I'm not holding my breath. But what really amused me was how she gave THE worst possible explanation for why the freighties are not to be trusted: they disabled BEN's weapon of mass destruction to impress her apparently, as well as her school girl petty grudge against Juliet. At the end of the day, this episode was so much of a rehash of DOC (written by the same guys) that it's no wonder Sun ends up deciding Kate's opinion is not worth that much in both.

Sun goes in the jungle with Juliet anyway, which always amused me, given that the reason she didn't trust Jack in the first place was Juliet.

Did she tell Jack that Miles made a deal with Ben??? For 3,2 millions!!! That's a big information about the freighters but she waits, just like she did when they found the medical hatch with Claire.

Yep. I hadn't even though of that until you mentioned it. That's on the writers more than anything, because I doubt even someone as addlebrained and selfish as Kate would realistically keep that a secret after just a few days before her pregnant friend had survived (what she thought was) an Othernapping attempt. They really screwed up with that one and made her character sound like a screechy, petulant teen: "I'm not in the club, wha, whaaaa, whaaaaaaaa!" (What would she have done with the knowledge that there's an Other locked up in a tiny room anyway?)

You LIE, you LYING LIAR of LIETOWN!!! You LIE next to your alLIES in a LIAR's LIEbrary, scrubbing yourself with LYE and eating LIE-ma beans!!!!!




Hehe. How long were you waiting to use this one? ;)

Anyway, I hate Kate most of the time these days -- and yet, I also kind of love her, still.

Like I said elsewhere, I'm bored.

Was anyone else laughing at Kate's outrage that Juliet's been lying? (She was pissy for her own reasons methinks...) Pot meet kettle.
.

How would you feel after you have been pistol whipped in the head?

She had the right to vent and I'm glad she did.

I'm also sick of people ragging on Kate all the time and judging her every action. At least she did not kill hundreds of people with sarin nerve gas (Ben), cheated with a married man (Juliet), steal children (Ben, Pickett, Tom, etc) and so on.

Give Kate a break haters.

How would you feel after you have been pistol whipped in the head?

I doubt I'd be dumb enough to bend over and turn my back on lying liars who are holding a gun, but then again, I'm not in the World's Lamest Criminals club.

I'm also sick of people ragging on Kate all the time and judging her every action.

Don't read then. She's a fictional character whose actions we're all here to discuss. If you don't want to do that, don't do it, but some of us might feel like passing the time that way.

At least she did not kill hundreds of people with sarin nerve gas (Ben), cheated with a married man (Juliet), steal children (Ben, Pickett, Tom, etc) and so on.

No, she burned a human being alive because he was a jerk and she wanted to make herself feel better about sharing DNA, never showed an ounce of remorse for premeditated murder, left a 22 month old baby orphan because she's too selfish to take responsibility for her acts, committed fraud, bank robbery (for a toy plane no less) lied, shot, manipulated people, continued to lie, use, manipulate people on the Island, conspired to poison a father who wanted to take his kid off CI and bring rescue for everyone, kept info about the camouflage of their enemies because she's whaaaa, whaaaa, whaaaa not in the club anymore, made Jack dig up the body of a man he had to smother to death because of her so she could get what she wanted, did I mention all the using, lying and manipulating? And yet, after all that, she still acts like everyone OWES her complete trust and understanding and she has to be in the thick of things because she's just so damn trustworthy and she's entitled to everything!

I doubt I'd be dumb enough to bend over and turn my back on lying liars who are holding a gun, but then again, I'm not in the World's Lamest Criminals club.


I haven't heard of that group.

Still, Kate can talk smack about two corrupt women (Juliet, Charlotte) any way she wants.

I haven't heard of that group.

Still, Kate can talk smack about two corrupt women (Juliet, Charlotte) any way she wants.

We don't know enough about Charlotte yet to call her corrupt. We know she isn't there on a rescue mission, but neither is Daniel or Frank and they both seem like decent people. She did help Daniel disarm the gas station. Sure they didn't announce that they were going there and she had to knock out Kate to get away, but it ended up being a good thing. I'm sure they could see that the survivors didn't really trust them. With Daniel telling them that saving them isn't their goal. If they were to announce that they were headed to a station that could kill everyone on the island, coupled with the fact that there are only enough biohazard suits for a handful of people, I'm sure the survivors would be less than accommodating. As for Juliet, she talks about how awful her past is, but the worst we've seen happened to save Kate. Since you're such a fan of Kate, you should be thanking Juliet for taking out Pickett before he and his pistol had their way with Kate and Sawyer.

I haven't heard of that group.

Still, Kate can talk smack about two corrupt women (Juliet, Charlotte) any way she wants.

Can Kate do anything wrong in your eyes? ;)

We don't know enough about Charlotte yet to call her corrupt. We know she isn't there on a rescue mission, but neither is Daniel or Frank and they both seem like decent people. She did help Daniel disarm the gas station. Sure they didn't announce that they were going there and she had to knock out Kate to get away, but it ended up being a good thing. I'm sure they could see that the survivors didn't really trust them. With Daniel telling them that saving them isn't their goal. If they were to announce that they were headed to a station that could kill everyone on the island, coupled with the fact that there are only enough biohazard suits for a handful of people, I'm sure the survivors would be less than accommodating. As for Juliet, she talks about how awful her past is, but the worst we've seen happened to save Kate. Since you're such a fan of Kate, you should be thanking Juliet for taking out Pickett before he and his pistol had their way with Kate and Sawyer.

Well, Charlotte was just helping the crazy mercenaries to invade (seen in Meet Kevin Johnson) later and cause another gangland massacre. That does not excuse her for knocking out Kate which was uncalled for and unprovoked. She(Charlotte) took a damn cheap shot at Kate and I'm still angry:mad:.

Juliet: The only useful thing she did was kill Pickett. she oly made Claire heal because she wanted to get into the good gracesof the camp. Juliet is a NARC **edited**.

I know her true intentions!

Can Kate do anything wrong in your eyes? ;)

Yes, but maybe if she....

-commited mass genocide and equal crimes
-stole a child
-many other unspeakable crimes

Well, Charlotte was just helping the crazy mercenaries to invade (seen in Meet Kevin Johnson) later and cause another gangland massacre.

The only way you can think that is by believing what Ben has to say. The Others conducted a massacre on a bunch of scientists. To visit the island and not be prepared for battle would be asinine. That does not, however, mean that they are going there with intentions to kill everyone. As was said in The Other Woman, Ben is the one that participated in The Purge (which Widmore obviously knows about).

Juliet: The only useful thing she did was kill Pickett. she oly made Claire heal because she wanted to get into the good gracesof the camp. Juliet is a NARC**edited**.

Juliet also saved Kate (and herself) from Smokey. Juliet has, since we've known her, been a doctor that was working to help pregnant women. Kate has been selfish and deceitful and continues to be that way. I'll take Juliet over Kate any day.

I haven't heard of that group.

You wouldn't. It's very exclussive and reserved for criminals who commit premeditated murder and take out an insurance for the house they blow up the day before. For criminals who are supposed to have lived on the run and do anything to escape, except for running out of an open cage. They prefer to have sex and cuddle in an open cage waiting for certain death the next day, etc, etc, etc. Not that many criminals can achieve that level of Darwin Award stupidity. It's rare.

Not that many criminals can achieve that level of Darwin Award stupidity. It's rare.

Kate is not that dumb but she reacts to instinct a bit too much (I'll admit that).

Juliet is a NARC**edited**.

**edited**
Yes, but maybe if she....

-commited mass genocide and equal crimes

Why do her crimes have to be equal with those of other characters to make her a dumb, unsympathetic :dog: for those who don't care for her? Why does Kate's behavior have to be compared to that of others?


-stole a child


You may get your wish. Just kidding. I don't think she stole Aaron, he's a plot device to make us believe that she's now poof! a mature, considerate Mother Teresa.

She did leave a 22 month child orphan though. Poor little Connor will never know his daddy because Kate was too selfish to take responsibility for the crimes she committed.

**edited** Well, since Juliet is basically a "prisoner" of Ben **edited**, yet she is still doing favors for him that makes her an accomplice which puts the spilled blood of any crime that Ben has commited on her hands as well.

Why do her crimes have to be equal with those of other characters to make her a dumb, unsympathetic :dog: for those who don't care for her? Why does Kate's behavior have to be compared to that of others?Well, her crimes pale to comparison compared to other criminals who are still roaming the streets. She also is sympathetic. she feels bad about Tom's deathand who wouldn't?

You may get yoru wish. Just kidding. I don't think she stole Aaron, he's a plot device to make us believe that she's now poof! a mature, considerate Mother Teresa.That is a bit over-exagerated.

She did leave a 22 month child orphan though. Poor little Connor will never know his daddy because Kate was too selfish to take responsibility for the crimes she committed.Conner's dad (Tom) put himself in danger's way and was killed by friendly fire courtesy of a State police officer. So don't blame it all on Kate because Tom put himself in that situation.

Conner is not an orphan because he still has his mother. He is just fatherless, but it is still a tragedy.

Juliet: The only useful thing she did was kill Pickett. she oly made Claire heal because she wanted to get into the good gracesof the camp. Juliet is a NARC**edited**.

**edited** As far as I know, Juliet hasn't committed a mass genocide or castrated thousands of people. **edited**

You all choose to hate Kate, I choose to loathe Juliet.

I respect Kate because she is changing for the better and she is trying damn hard. Unfortunately, many viewers keep forgetting that.

You all choose to hate Kate, I choose to loathe Juliet.

I respect Kate because she is changing for the better and she is trying damn hard. Unfortunately, many viewers keep forgetting that.

I don't hate Kate at all. I hate some of the choices she makes, but I don't believe she does anything out of malice. The problem with the character is that she's become a tired cliche: a whining, fickle damsel in distress who's swayed by whichever big, strong man happens to be standing closest to her...

As a woman, it's sickening to see a once-strong female devolve into a the lead character from a Harlequin romance; as a Jack fan, I'm tired of the game-playing and indecision (and I imagine the Sawyer fans feel the same way).

The bottom line for me, is that Kate still needs to find herself and grow up -- and she needs to do it without hurting the people who care about her.

I don't care for the Kate character, but that aside... everything she said to Sun is stuff that is justifiably the main thing on her mind, I took it that Sun was just "asking the right question at the right time" or the wrong question as it were.


I understand that, but couldn't Kate have warned Sun about what to expect at Camp Locke?

I understand that, but couldn't Kate have warned Sun about what to expect at Camp Locke?

What would she have warned her about? Other than having a prisoner, I don't see what you could be referring to. Locke having a prisoner is nothing new. Anything that happened to Kate while she was there was her own fault. Locke is trying to be a leader of those people and she undermined him to further her own agenda. I think he was right to banish her.

You all choose to hate Kate, I choose to loathe Juliet.

You can loath Juliet as much as you want Adam. I know that she's fictional and I don't get worked up over it. But please stop with the Nazi comparisons. That was a horrible part of German history and it would be nice if it doesn't get dragged into the fandom of a TV show. That's taking it a little bit too far IMO.

According to M Sipher's "Internet Argument Losing Bingo" (for those interested: Google it), "comparing anything to nazis" is a quick way to lose an argument in an internet discussion. :)

One of the reasons why anyone should refrain from such comparisons. It never helps to win the argument. :)

You can loath Juliet as much as you want Adam. I know that she's fictional and I don't get worked up over it. But please stop with the Nazi comparisons. That was a horrible part of German history and it would be nice if it doesn't get dragged into the fandom of a TV show. That's taking it a little bit too far IMO.

My apologies.

I crossed the line and I didn't need to. I got worked up so I did not think straight.

kate made all her own choices to do what she did.

juliette, those people who loath her forget, all she did to get where she is is take a job offer, and everything else that happened to her was in some way forced upon her from that first decision.

everything kate did? forced on her from her first decision to murder her father.

besides, juliette, has done things to help people alot more than kate has. juliette killed pickett to save kate and sawyer and prolly karl. kate killed her father, to save her mother froma beating? really? i dont think so entirely. she even admitted it was because of her DNA thing. *rolls eyes*

and juliette ALWAYS has to distance herself from the wrong she knows shes doing, and she knows it at the time. kate can be perfectly happy executing her manipulation like she's done nothing wrong, like it's going all to plan.

i've seen femenist polls that rate kate austen as one of the top ten female characters of all time...makes me wonder what exactly the femenists value these days. manipulating men? lying?

and for christ sake, juliette slept with a man who was married. she wasnt the one cheating, goodwin was. still dispicable because hse knew he was married, but it was goodwin's choice to leave his wife's bed (and seemingly go from woman to woman...hehe ana lucia was in his desires.)