I have been racking my brain thinking about anything that I could think of about this show which would be why Jack cant be th "Another"....Kate is obviously going to raise him but why not Jack?

I think it may be because Aaron is only supposed to be raised by one person and that person is Kate....

Actually that person is CLAIRE, not Kate.

Claire is the only one that can raise Aaron, because her "goodness must be a factor in the raising" of him, as was stated in Malkin's prophecy. Niether Jack nor Kate are able to do this, only Claire. Hurley told Jack that he wasn't suppose to, and that they needed to "go back" to reunite Claire and Aaron. Kate will most probably have a vision of Claire, which will spark her choice to finally go back to the island.

Damian pointed out in a podcast that there is some question about the prophecy, since Malkin apparently was exposed as a fraud. So the situation is unclear.

I think he meant YOU BOTH., not jsut Jack.

Claire is the only one that can raise Aaron, because her "goodness must be a factor in the raising" of him, as was stated in Malkin's prophecy. Niether Jack nor Kate are able to do this, only Claire. Hurley told Jack that he wasn't suppose to, and that they needed to "go back" to reunite Claire and Aaron.

Yes, this is it exactly and why Kate is so resistant to going back.

Claire is more important than people think.

Yeah the writers screwed up big on this one.

First nobody but Claire can raise the kid, so the psychic puts her on a plane bound to crash but doesn't see that Claire isn't going to make it off the island? (I assume she dies) Or that her kid does? Obviously now the kid HAS to be raised by someone else and there is NO reason that it shouldn't be Jack...the writers are just making crap up now. Damn this is frustrating.

What the hell is the worst that could happen if he raises him anyways? RAWR! CONTRIVED!

Yeah the writers screwed up big on this one.

First nobody but Claire can raise the kid, so the psychic puts her on a plane bound to crash but doesn't see that Claire isn't going to make it off the island? (I assume she dies) Or that her kid does? Obviously now the kid HAS to be raised by someone else and there is NO reason that it shouldn't be Jack...the writers are just making crap up now. Damn this is frustrating.

What the hell is the worst that could happen if he raises him anyways? RAWR! CONTRIVED!

So you BELIEVE the con man psychic? Ha!

The writers have you conned very nicely, huh?

-- J

I think Charlie's warning was meant to include Kate, as Claire's psychic told her that SHE alone was the only one who could raise Aaron.

Yeah the writers screwed up big on this one.

First nobody but Claire can raise the kid, so the psychic puts her on a plane bound to crash but doesn't see that Claire isn't going to make it off the island? (I assume she dies) Or that her kid does? Obviously now the kid HAS to be raised by someone else and there is NO reason that it shouldn't be Jack...the writers are just making crap up now. Damn this is frustrating.

What the hell is the worst that could happen if he raises him anyways? RAWR! CONTRIVED!
I disagree. I believe they have planned this all along - considering they knew they would be doing FFs and showing some of the survivors get off the island. The point of the whole thing is to play out the prophesy to see if there was truth to it. The only way we'll ever know what happens if Aaron is raised by another, away from Claire, is if it is shown. If they were never separated, there would have been no point in that whole plot line -- and many, many cries of a dropped story. Once we see what happens, we'll know if the psychic was real, a random fraud, or someone hired by Widmore/whomever to get Claire stuck on the island away from her child.

As for Kate, I'm not sure why she'd be resistant to returning Aaron to Claire, unless she really is coming to think of him as "my son" and not want to give him up. Either that, or she's just scared silly.

I really hope Kate doesn't ever see visions of Claire, which to me would mean she is dead. I'm hoping for someone else!!!

Well what the hell, if Claire is somehow still alive and on the island, why didn't she get off? Why haven't they gone back to get her just on principle? If the kid is raised by ANYONE on a freaking island, obviously he can do no massive harm to humanity anyways..assuming thats what we're trying to avoid here. So who cares?

As for the psychic, all I'm assuming is that whatever had ghost Charlie to tell Hugo to give Jack that message is the same whatever that caused the psychic to tell Claire shes the only one that can raise him. As far as I know we have not heard what force is behind insisting Claire be the one to raise him, nor what would happen if someone else does. Ben never seemed to be too concerned about it... I think it's all just unneeded hocus pocus to make the show more mysterious and not allow Jack and Kate to go on in peace. If it's that clear that something new and only half explained will always just come up out of nowhere to ruin things like this..it kind of takes the fun out.

hocus pocus? or perhaps the island figured this convoluted "leave aaron in the trees so Sawyer can bring him to kate and jack etc etc" plot was the only way it could guarantee the return of the O6 back to the island some day in the future?

Haha sounds like some of Ben and the Others' plans from past seasons. like the get jack to operate plan, or the get michael to free Ben and trap the others..

Oh well. Point is we don't know that much yet and that 'psychic prediction' could just be a self-fulfilling prophecy in a way. Maybe the guy was a con artist, maybe not. Maybe we'll see Aaron reunited with Claire and there will be a rampant 500+ post thread of the two sides (he was real/he was a fake) fighting it out till no end. Who knows... what seems to be the case here is that well, Jack obviously has issues, especially with trust, so like, i mean how good would he and Kate have been anyway as parents? Even if Hurley never said anything to him??

hocus pocus? or perhaps the island figured this convoluted "leave aaron in the trees so Sawyer can bring him to kate and jack etc etc" plot was the only way it could guarantee the return of the O6 back to the island some day in the future?

Haha sounds like some of Ben and the Others' plans from past seasons. like the get jack to operate plan, or the get michael to free Ben and trap the others..

Oh well. Point is we don't know that much yet and that 'psychic prediction' could just be a self-fulfilling prophecy in a way. Maybe the guy was a con artist, maybe not. Maybe we'll see Aaron reunited with Claire and there will be a rampant 500+ post thread of the two sides (he was real/he was a fake) fighting it out till no end. Who knows... what seems to be the case here is that well, Jack obviously has issues, especially with trust, so like, i mean how good would he and Kate have been anyway as parents? Even if Hurley never said anything to him??

I think Hurley's message from Charlie is what triggered Jack's trouble. Prior to this, he seemed to be handling things well.

Claire is the only one that can raise Aaron, because her "goodness must be a factor in the raising" of him, as was stated in Malkin's prophecy. Niether Jack nor Kate are able to do this, only Claire. Hurley told Jack that he wasn't suppose to, and that they needed to "go back" to reunite Claire and Aaron. Kate will most probably have a vision of Claire, which will spark her choice to finally go back to the island.

I don't think that Claire will be visitng Kate but I do believe that Charlie's message to Jack was because jack has the most influence. I think if Jack tried hard enough he could convince Kate that they need to give Aaron back to Claire.

I think Jack HAS probably tried to convince her, but he ends up sounding as crazy as Hurley and she tells him to stop bugging her as seen in TTLG.

So you BELIEVE the con man psychic? Ha!

The writers have you conned very nicely, huh?

-- J

Well, considering how the psychic was going to be in TTLG at one point in the planning stages, i would say that he may be more important than he seems.

I don't think Jack was handling things well prior to Hurley's message. I think he was covering up. He stated that he hadn't been sleeping well for awhile. There was no way Hurley's message could have scared him that badly if things weren't already "up."

Remember he saw CS even before he got Hurley's message. I think he's been seeing his dad for a while.

but I agree with people that Aaron can only be raised by Claire.
Kate is not so messed up as Jack so it's not so bad if she raises him for a little while.
but even so...I was a little creeped out by the way Kate called Aaron her son in Eggtown.
I mean she KNOWS he isn't.

In answer to the title of this thread...

Jack probably can't raise Aaron properly because he knows that its really his Nephew and its just not right.

I think Jack's dad is mysteriously appearing to tell him that Claire is his sister/half-sister

It's all about nature (heredity factors) (fate) versus nurture (experiences in life) (ability to effect one's future). They both have effects on the way people turn out. Jack's nurturing process would be different than Kate's and similarly their processes would be different from Claire's. The easiest example is that Claire would be raising Aaron in Australia, while Jack and/or Kate would be rasing him in L.A (U.S.A.). Aaron would be growing up in completely different environments. Another example would be the difference of a man raising a child versus a woman versus a couple.

Nature cannot be changed and will be constant while nurturing is variable.

I know that adoptive mothers see the adopted kids as their own and call them my son or my daughter often enough. But there's a difference here, we know Claire didn't want to give up Aaron, at least that's what she said to him after Maternity Leave.

So, I'm thinking whatever the circumstances of Kate ending up with Aaron, Claire wasn't a willing participant, and Jack knows this. She's gone missing on the island, I don't think they'll find her before the O6 get rescued, and they will off course take Aaron away because they think it's best for the child but it should nag both, Jack and Kate, that they don't know what happened to Claire. That she could very well be alive on the island and wanting to be with her child.

Kate could have said something like "You shouldn't be around Aaron like this", instead of so emphatically insisting on the "my son" part. As I said above, the difference with adoptive parents is that the biological parents gave up their parental rights willingly, they decided the child should be raised by someone else. In this case, we don't have that (at least we haven't seen it yet). Claire did not willingly give up her baby, she disappeared.

I do believe the psychic saw something that totally freaked him out the first time he read for Claire. I think he was not a strong psychic and that he probably was a charlatan most of his life, but the first time he saw Claire he was terrified, and he returned her money. So, I think that time he really saw something very freaky.

I'm hoping no one visits Kate, but that Aaron himself is the driving force behind her changing her mind to go back. I'm hoping we'll see the consequences of Aaron being raised by another and this is what will finally convince Kate. She's been many things on the show but she seems to genuinely care and love Aaron, more than she loves Jack or Sawyer, both of whom she wanted nothing to do with in the TTLG FF (not taking Jack's calls or accepting to go back with him, and not wanting to go back for Sawyer either).

So, my wish is that Aaron will start acting freaky, perhaps he'll hurt a pet or another child, and when Kate asks him why he'll say something freaky about the island or even mention Claire's name. Another wish I have is that he'll start drawing pictures of the island, the DHARMA symbols and a blond woman, and, when Kate questions him about them, he'll say he's drawing his other mommy. I think that'd be freaky cool, and will finally make Kate realize she does need to go back and return that child to Claire.

perhaps he'll hurt a pet or another child.

:eek2: OK, I guess that only sounds wrong out of context... but yeah, I see what you mean. Kinda like Walt killing his mom with his mind. Which I think he did because he can't control his abilities.

:eek2: OK, I guess that only sounds wrong out of context... but yeah, I see what you mean. Kinda like Walt killing his mom with his mind. Which I think he did because he can't control his abilities.

LOL! I didn't mean hurt them badly, but the psychic did say "Evil surrounds this child", and that's a direct quote, one of the few that got burned in my brain because it was so eerie.

So, my take is that if Aaron were to be raised by another, something very "evilish" would take place.

I don't think Walt killed his mom, not even by accident, but that's because I think that'd be too horrible to contemplate, not because your idea couldn't be plausible. I think it's also possible Walt's mom dying was the way the Universe worked to get Walt to the island.

Oh he so totally did. :biggrin: We did see him kill birds with his mind, both on the show and in a mobisode so I suppose Aaron might leave a trail of dead canaries in his wake too. I have no idea if that's what they mean by the evil that surrounds him and I don't know how old he'd have to be in order for this kind of abilities to work for him as a... character. He's just a blob of cute right now, not a real person and I think their return to the Island will happen rather soon-ish after TTLG, a couple of years max.

A trail of dead canaries! LOL!

I do think he's a blob of cute right now, as only a Shephard child could be, but I don't think it's too soon for him to be freaky. Kate did say in the TTLG FF that he'd be wondering where she was, so, he's got speech and the capacity to wonder where "mommy" is. He can start being freaky anytime now.

Move over Rosemary's Baby!

Well I bet Hurley thinks it because he believes that Jack is dead......

;)

I'm not going to argue with him right now!

.

At this point I figure they both think Claire is dead.

I supect Jack finds out Claire is very much alive later on. Probably threw a vision. He probably ends up actually talking to his father. Who tells him Aaron must be taken back to the island and be reunited with Claire.

Some how Jack seems to know he is releated to Aaron.
How he found out we don't know yet.

I figure by that time enough strange things have happend to Jack that he has no problem believing it.

Kate on the other hand is perfectly happy in her role as Aarons mom and is not about to give it up. If she isn't having visions or seeing dead people, why would she?

I would think Jack was out of his mind too and it makes sense at least to me, that Kate wouldn't have visions. She is Aarons care giver and I would think the island would want her perfectly sain. Not all freaked out, drinking and doing drugs like Jack is.

Once Aaron is away from Kate, I wonder if she isn't completely expendable?

see....while the whole raised by another issue also has me thinking .....not sure if I will make sence here but will try,....

1. the baby is supposed to be raised by claire only...the island knows this and I assume the island took claire away and left aaron there for sawyer to find....
2. the island wont give claire up so that the rest of the survivors will let aaron off the island with another....
3. kate takes the baby off the island and considers it her own...being an adoptive mom I never consider my child adopted she is my child and would never even think of calling her my adopted child....neither would any of adoptive moms I know..
3. Jack is Aarons only blook relative here that we know of in the situation that would be able to raise the baby...If Claire was to raise the baaby alone, Jack would be the closest living relative to do the raising if the island killed claire which I dont think it did and i also have no spoiler information
4. if Claire is sitll on the island is the reason Jack beleives they have to go back so desperatly Aaron to get him to Claire???

4. if Claire is sitll on the island is the reason Jack beleives they have to go back so desperatly Aaron to get him to Claire???

I think it's one of the reasons, not THE reason.

Concerning the comment "Evil surrounds this child"...this doesn't necessarily mean that the evil is eminating FROM him, it simply means that evil is AROUND him.

Concerning the comment "Evil surrounds this child"...this doesn't necessarily mean that the evil is eminating FROM him, it simply means that evil is AROUND him.

I agree, but evil around you can turn you evil.

When Javi was on the writing team, I caught a lot of parallels to another series he used to pen, Charmed. In that series, evil surrounded a child too, Wyatt. And once the evil ones got to Wyatt they turned him all kinds of evil.

His own brother came back from the future, so he could discover the crucial event that turned his brother into a very bad warlock, when he was supposed to be the most blessed child in the world born into a family of the most powerful witches ever to walk the earth who had a destiny so major hanging over their heads, they wrestled with the issue the entire time the series was on the air.

Now, I'm not saying witchcraft is going to make an appearance on Lost, because I don't think it will. But the paralles are there and RBA, where the fated line was spoken, was a S1 episode, a time when Javi was very involved with the show.

Concerning the comment "Evil surrounds this child"...this doesn't necessarily mean that the evil is eminating FROM him, it simply means that evil is AROUND him.

Could that make this Christian apparition er whatever bad? It looks like he's seperated Claire from Aaron.

It seems like there are 2 forces at work, those that want Claire to raise the baby, Malkin originally, Charlie as told to Hurley. And Christian whom it seems purposefully led Claire away from Aaron which it seems eventually leads to Kate taking him off the island.

The question is who works for who, is Christian doing the island's bidding by seperating Claire and Aaron or someone else's and maybe Malkin changed his mind about Claire raising the baby herself because he was influenced by that same force as Christian or maybe Christian himself paid him a visit. Sorry if that sounds confusing.

They've definitely revived the whole "can't be raised by another" issue, and the importance of Aaron, after having tried to cast doubt on it for a long time. I'm very glad, because after the all the importance implied about Aaron's future in season one, it would be lame if that turned out to be nothing. It appears that he's going to be very powerful, and whoever's influence is involved in the raising of him will be crucial to future world events. Personally, I would NOT want such a person raised around the influence of Jack. If he's already been with Claire for some three months or so, that's already some of the most important parts of personality development.

Okay, but if we look back at Season 1 in "Raised by Another" Malkin gave Claire the money and a ticket to go to LA to give her baby to a "couple" there. Now, I know it's been debated that Malkin did this to get her on the ill-fated flight however, if I'm understanding things correctly, the only reason the plane went down is because Desmond didn't input the numbers in time which caused the plane to go down. So either Malkin isn't a con-man and we need to heed his "visions" or the baby was supposed to be in LA but maybe not raised by Jack and Kate.

Aaron is very important in the overall scheme of things, we just don't know how or why. This certainly doesn't answer the "Why can't Jack raise Aaron" question but it does seem to me, that Aaron was either supposed to be with Claire or in LA.

i think aaron is going to play a huge part in the battle between ben and charles for control of the island. perhaps they are the evil malkin refers to.

and i agree with the previous post regarding malkin's abilities, except i believe they were undeveloped because they were not necessary in his scam to make money, fortunes about love and money are easy and predictable without any abilities. but when claire came in all that changes. he sees a real and very powerful vision, which may or may not have come from an outside force (the island) and have nothing to do with his having or not having psychic abilities at all. sorry i forgot who posted it, it was a few pages back...:redface:

It never really made sense to me thought that he sent Claire on a plane he knew would crash and Aaron might not survive. Well... maybe he only gets flashes like Desmond so he didn't know about that.

It never really made sense to me thought that he sent Claire on a plane he knew would crash and Aaron might not survive. Well... maybe he only gets flashes like Desmond so he didn't know about that.

Or maybe someone got to him (Malkin). My personal theory is that the "evil that surrounds this child" was trying to get the child away from mamma Claire. We later learned that Malkin would do stuff for money (he claimed to have conned people), so I think someone already in the outside world knew about Claire's baby, and the fact that he would be a special child.

This someone (Widmore, perhaps?) paid Malkin a generous sum to change Claire's mind and get Aaron to LA so that he would be raised by another and later help said someone gain control of the island again. But, alas, fate interfered, the universe course corrected and Desmond didn't enter the numbers in the computer, thus keeping Claire and Aaron together.

If my Shephard Clan theory pans out, and Aaron is, in fact, the intended chosen one to lead the island's original tribe, this scenario could be very possible.

Damian pointed out in a podcast that there is some question about the prophecy, since Malkin apparently was exposed as a fraud. So the situation is unclear.

IIRC, there was some doubt about the fraud part. It was implied that Malkin had powers but lied about them to keep away from media coverage about his daughter's miraculous return to life.

I have not seen Raised By Another since its original airing, but what I recall is Malkin basically was a fake, however, he actually saw stuff concerning Aaron, surprising even hinself. And that's why he got so involved with financing the flight and the additional help he gave.

True??

He CAN raise him, he's just not SUPPOSED to

Well, Malkin's story was told through two episodes, not just RBA. I'll go by memory, so, if anyone sees a mistake, feel free to correct:

Claire's friend convinces her to go see the psychic
She gets there, the guy takes her hands and gets all freaky about it. Says she can't give the baby up, danger surrounds the baby, he must not be raised by another. He says he can't continue the reading, returns Claire's money and asks her to leave.
Claire decides not to believe the hocus-pocus and goes to a lawyer's office to sign the adoption papers, but she doesn't.
The psychic starts calling her to tell her that he's had another vision and that she is supposed to give up the baby, but only to the family he's recommending.
After a lot of convincing, Claire finally accepts and gets her ticket on 815
Later, in Eko's episode we find out that in between points 3 and 4 above, Charlotte Malkin, the psychic's daugther, died and then miracoulosly came back to life during her autopsy
When Eko is sent to investigate the miracle, the psychic throws him out and says he's a fake, he's never been able to tell anyone's future. He's just another conman.Those are the facts, my interpretation is that the first time around the psychic did see something real, and it scared him big time. But then his daughter died and he was offered a deal. Get Claire on that plane and your daughter lives again. And so he did, and was properly rewarded, but he thinks it's a shady deal he made, and he doesn't want anyone, much less a priest, to ever find out.

What the hell is the worst that could happen if he raises him anyways? RAWR! CONTRIVED!

We haven't been shown that yet. I'm just wondering if we'll see that Locke was Aaron-like but, unfortunately, raised by others in foster care. That alone should give pause to anyone doubting that being raised by an other is a bad thing.

So you BELIEVE the con man psychic? Ha!

Yup, just like I believe his daughter when she told Eko she had spoken to Yemi.

I have a theory and maybe you guys can validate/invalidate it. At first Malkin did seem to have a vision and was extremely freaked out about it, and he was very certain Claire's child could not be raised by another. Then he changed his tune and recommended Claire fly to the adoptive parents in LA. Now the part that catches my attention was the way his daugher drowned and was resurrected, does that coincide with the change in his advice? Could it have been that Malkin made a deal to save his daughter if he can get Claire on that plane? Not sure who it would have been making this deal with Malkin though, but I was also thinking about how according to Ben, Jacob can cure cancer in Juliet's sister off island which served a purpose for Ben (unless it was a scam to keep Juliet there).

At any rate though, I see Aaron as a parallel to Anakin Skywalker, he's probably going to be a highly gifted blank slate strong with the force, and the light and dark sides will try to guide him in one direction or another. Without Claire's nurturing powers he won't have the foundation to resist turning to the dark side. Who is yoda and who is palpatine is up for debate though that's for sure! :)

Edit: CrazyLatin you and I seem to be of a same mind about Malkins motivations right on!

Edit: CrazyLatin you and I seem to be of a same mind about Malkins motivations right on!

He, he! Great minds think alike, right? I love that theory too, but I'm open to other explanations if the writers offer them. Right now it seems to fit the facts, but perhaps we don't know all the facts or there's an alternate theory that can fit them. However, I'll stick to this theory until a new one is presented / confirmed by the writers.

crazy, and tk, i like your theory a lot! while it answers questions about malkin and his abilities, it also asks questions--which every other episode does!

Actually that person is CLAIRE, not Kate.

I am actually really upset by the interpretation that Kate has a special right to raise Aaron. I find that attitude absolutely bizarre and have gone so far to refer to Kate as Aaron's kidnapper because it shocks people and reminds people that TPTB have not explained why he lives in her house.

I think Jack HAS probably tried to convince her, but he ends up sounding as crazy as Hurley and she tells him to stop bugging her as seen in TTLG.

Now that's an idea I haven't thought of. So maybe Kate just didn't wanna hear it and told Jac to leave.

Its about Christian--NOT Aaron

If Hurley didnt mention Aaron--I would lean toward aaron. But Jack IS raising Aaron---therefore Hurleys question to jack suggests it NOT aaron at all--that just too obvious for Lost

We're suppose to assume its Aaron..but Lost rarely conforms to the obvious. Jack is raising his Father through his thoughts and Charlie is warning against doing this.

If Hurley didnt mention Aaron--I would lean toward aaron. But Jack IS raising Aaron---therefore Hurleys question to jack suggests it NOT aaron at all

By which leaps of fandom logic?

--that just too obvious for Lost

Like "Henry Gale" not being Henry Gale but an Other?

Like Claire being Jack's Australian half-sister?

Like Kate really, truly blowing up her daddy as shown and reinforced a million times, including in interviews?

Like the freighties not being there to rescue them?

Like the freighter belonging to Widmore?

Like Danielle being really and truly dead?

So you BELIEVE the con man psychic? Ha!

The writers have you conned very nicely, huh?

-- J

So you think he's a con-man? Yeah, he might have said that he was a fraud to Eko, but he could have just been lying. Kind of hard to fake sending Claire on a plane that crashes on an island all the while telling her that she has to be the one that raises the kid.