I have a question, and to some of you it might seem a little obvious but please bare with me.

Jacks FF tonight, was that before or after TTLG? I want to think so, because it seems that this is where Jack takes his down turn.

If this is the case, why are we going backwards? it seems that all of the other FF's are going in order, or am i missing something?

Any help is appreciated:redface:

As far as I can tell, the FF in TTLG takes place most currently, and all the others have taken place before that one. We are being led up to that moment.

I think that was the only way to roll out the fact that more than one of them is having visions and keep us guessing. My bet would be they all have visions eventually, but who knows.

So this FF is BEFORE TTLG?

So this FF is BEFORE TTLG?
Yes, he was just starting his slip into insanity.

Agree with what's been said. The very first FF we saw, with Jack and his beard at the airport with Kate, is the very latest scene we've seen in the overall timeline. I believe that what we saw tonight happens here:

leave island -> kate's trial -> [tonight] -> airport scene with Jack and the beard

Above post is correct

Note that Hurley seeing Charlie and Jack visiting him at the b-ball court happened before this too, of course

What I found interesting, based on Hurley's convo, was that Charlie is still visiting him, and Hurley now seems to be okay with that.

What I found interesting, based on Hurley's convo, was that Charlie is still visiting him, and Hurley now seems to be okay with that.

I think he is just accepting it as what he thinks it is, just a vision. He also thinks the doctor is in his mind as well. He probably thinks nobody exists. note what he told Jack - "that their in heaven"

I for one think that Hurley is not insane, just that all of these apperitions (sp?) from the island/smokey make him think he is due to the fact that he already spent time in a mental facility.

I found the article that Jack read about the ball game!! Surprisingly, it was publish Aug 31, 2007!!!

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/08/31/sports/baseball/31yankees.html

Great find!!! are you sure it is the same one?

I think he is just accepting it as what he thinks it is, just a vision. He also thinks the doctor is in his mind as well. He probably thinks nobody exists. note what he told Jack - "that their in heaven"

I for one think that Hurley is not insane, just that all of these apperitions (sp?) from the island/smokey make him think he is due to the fact that he already spent time in a mental facility.


Oh, I agree. I just think it is awesome that Hurley gets to spend time with Charlie (even if he is an apparition and may not be the "real" Charlie).

Great find!!! are you sure it is the same one?


The text and title are the same. The prop paper has a different author and e-mail address listed. Odd that they would do that and use a real artile, but maybe that's how they do things?

The actual article places this episode after Through the Looking Glass, which is even odder, because my impression was that it took place before.

I found the article that Jack read about the ball game!! Surprisingly, it was publish Aug 31, 2007!!!

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/08/31/sports/baseball/31yankees.html

Great find! Kudos!

I am somewhat suspicious of tonight's FFs. I am starting to wonder if there is more than one point in time being shown.

I really have to see this episode again (my cable box isn't working so I couldn't record it... grr). I suppose I'll have to patiently wait until ABC puts the epi up on it's site.

I think they said history repeats itself, that's because they are in august 2006, not 2007. I am pretty sure its not 2007. There was a sweep, called the "boston massacre" in 18-21 august 2006 that threw Boston out of the playoff race.

The scores were terrible something like 41-10 over 3 games.

The text and title are the same. The prop paper has a different author and e-mail address listed. Odd that they would do that and use a real artile, but maybe that's how they do things?

The actual article places this episode after Through the Looking Glass, which is even odder, because my impression was that it took place before.


now that is just confusing:confused: I thought this was before.......

I found the article that Jack read about the ball game!! Surprisingly, it was publish Aug 31, 2007!!!

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/08/31/sports/baseball/31yankees.html



that article has a different headline to the one that jack read.

NY TIMES-History repeats as Yankees sweep Red Sox
Jacks paper-Yankees bludgeon Red Sox in series sweep

Jacks paper was referring to the august 2006 series

My impressions:

Darlton was deliberately sneaky about tonight's ff timeframe.

It was likely (but not definitely) after the TTLG ff.

that article has a different headline to the one that jack read.

NY TIMES-History repeats as Yankees sweep Red Sox
Jacks paper-Yankees bludgeon Red Sox in series sweep

Jacks paper was referring to the august 2006 series

Right. the text is the same, though. it refers to "last" august and the details of the game described are definitely the 2007 game. It is odd that they didn't change it more than they did.

I found the article that Jack read about the ball game!! Surprisingly, it was publish Aug 31, 2007!!!

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/08/31/sports/baseball/31yankees.html

Good find!. Aug. 31 2007

I'm sure its before TTLG, so it can't be in 2007.

The bigger and nastier sweep was in 2006, I think its that one.

The 2007 one didn't change anything, the Sox still
got into the playoff and won the world serie :-).

It's definitely August 31, 2007. Article says that Robinson Cano hit 2 HRs. Only time he's done that against the Sox was on August 30, 2007 off of Curt Schilling. The article itself is the same as the one posted here, but everything else is a prop...Headline, author, all the other box scores...all props. http://images.lostpedia.com/images/3/32/Yankees_Red_Sox_article.jpg
Screenshot of the prop article.

It was definately before Through the Looking Glass, I thought they said that the end of this season would bring us to the Season 3 finale, first flash forward and just beyond.

I think this is 2006. Just after the trial but before TTLG.

didnt A-rod go 0-3 that game? and jack says something about 'darn A-rod'
slip by the writers or did they just not think we would go to these lengths...

I would imagine that they know by now the lengths we will go to! I honestly believe that it is just a prop error, as I believe this FF takes place in 2006. A lot of the time I think little things like the damned A-rod line are more for the casual viewer who doesn't come on here and analyze everything.

i guess so, just seems like all the lengths they go to, knowing what 'we' do.....
and a few of the writers are big baseball fans (obviously)-hmmmm

It's definitely August 31, 2007. Article says that Robinson Cano hit 2 HRs. Only time he's done that against the Sox was on August 30, 2007 off of Curt Schilling. The article itself is the same as the one posted here, but everything else is a prop...Headline, author, all the other box scores...all props. http://images.lostpedia.com/images/3/32/Yankees_Red_Sox_article.jpg
Screenshot of the prop article.

It also mentions an upcoming series against Seattle, which is true for 2007, it was after oen more series.

It's a prop newspaper with multiple sources and isn't a real paper from any one time. I am not going to assume it's really 2007 based on the headline which was obviously just a nod to the whole red sox theme

The "article" from Jack's paper also mentions that it was a 3 game sweep, which would be accurate for 2007, in addition to the upcoming Mariners series. Interesting that he would mention A-Rod, though, my first instinct was that the comment was inserted to establish the future time frame.

The details in the sports story strongly point to 2007. The level of detail shown on screen imo is no error, considering TPTB are rabid baseball fans.
Baseball fans live, die, and breathe stats, details, and dates.

Further, Aaron was born around Halloween, 2004. So if it's the August 2006 sweep, Aaron's not yet 22 months old in this episode.
He looks much older - 34 months looks about right.
That's little help, though. TV shows are notorious for using too-old actors to portray babies and kids.

Story events strongly point to this FF being before the TTLG FF. We don't when the TTLG FF took place. There was a fake composite news story in that episode that led some to believe it was April or May 2007. But that news story didn't carry the kind of date-able, confirmable details that the sports story did.

So it appears this FF is in September 2007, and the TTLG FF happens several weeks or months later.

All that said, this IS Lost. There was a stack of oranges (implying deception, in my theory) beside the news article... and there's a hunk of stuff suggesting time is out of whack.

I found the article that Jack read about the ball game!! Surprisingly, it was publish Aug 31, 2007!!!

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/08/31/sports/baseball/31yankees.html

It's definitely August 31, 2007. Article says that Robinson Cano hit 2 HRs. Only time he's done that against the Sox was on August 30, 2007 off of Curt Schilling. The article itself is the same as the one posted here, but everything else is a prop...Headline, author, all the other box scores...all props. http://images.lostpedia.com/images/3/32/Yankees_Red_Sox_article.jpg
Screenshot of the prop article.

This is not only the same article, but they copied and pasted the article text from that article website! How do I know? Because if you try to select the text and paste it into a text editor, you also get inset menu items an photo captions to the left of the article. And if you try to delete that extra text, but don't delete enough, you're left with the following, the credit and caption for the second photo, between the first two paragraphs of the actual article:

Suzy Allman for The New York Times
Robinson Canó hit two home runs as the Yankees completed a three-game sweep of the Red Sox with a 5-0 victory. The Yankees cut Boston’s division lead to five games.

Which is exactly what they have between the first two paragraphs of the actual article. This was obviously put in as a time reference, so there can be little doubt that this is taking place in August of 2007, two years after Ben recruits Sayid in Iraq.

Jack's state of mind at the beginning of the episode very much indicates this happens before TTLG. In TTLG he's distraught and Kate didn't even want to speak to him, yet in this episode they are together and he is happy. I really, REALLY don't see them being together after the airport scene. Not like they were in this episode.

Major inconsistencies with this paper. The Yankees didn't even play Boston in Aug of 2005. So the reference to "Last August" would have to be the year of 2006. And present time 2007.

Now, to make it more confusing. The ONLY time the Astros and Angels ever played that resulted in 8-4, was June 20th, 2007. http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/recap?gameId=270620103

Also, the article states that "last year" New York rampaged into Fenway and won 3 games to bury the Red Sox. Which is all true, except for the fact that it was FIVE games. Not THREE. Curiously enough, this is the only text that has been modified throughout the whole article.

What is everyone's feeling on the Suzy Allman text? Editing mistake? Or something else. Like a fake newspaper that someone is giving Jack. There should have been a picture there. Specifically this picture: http://www.nytimes.com/imagepages/2007/08/31/sports/baseball/31yankees2.ready.html

Also, Gregg Bilson is in the movie business. Has many credits in the art department for various Movies & TV Shows: http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0082681/

Seems like TIME itself is messed up, or broken. Things that should have happened are changed slightly by the losties leaving. Gregg now works for the Times, instead of the Art Department. The Astros & Angels played in August instead of June. Last years sweep was 3 games, not 5. Now the Island is trying to get them back to correct it? Least, that's my take...

--

Gretchen: Hey. What's going on?
David: Horrible accident. My neighbour... got killed.
Gretchen: What happened?
David: Got smooshed by a jet engine.
Gretchen: What was his name?
David: Donnie. Donnie Darko.
Gretchen: Hmm.
David: I feel bad for his family.
Gretchen: Yeah.
David: Did you know him?
Gretchen: No.

Did Kate's fridge or the x-rays Jack was looking at have any kind of dates on them--a calendar in Kate's kitchen perhaps or an imprint on the x-rays?

Someone with great tech skills will have to go look and see if there are any other images that can confirm the 2007 year issue.

This is not only the same article, but they copied and pasted the article text from that article website! How do I know? Because if you try to select the text and paste it into a text editor, you also get inset menu items an photo captions to the left of the article. And if you try to delete that extra text, but don't delete enough, you're left with the following, the credit and caption for the second photo, between the first two paragraphs of the actual article:

Suzy Allman for The New York Times
Robinson Canó hit two home runs as the Yankees completed a three-game sweep of the Red Sox with a 5-0 victory. The Yankees cut Boston’s division lead to five games.

Which is exactly what they have between the first two paragraphs of the actual article. This was obviously put in as a time reference, so there can be little doubt that this is taking place in August of 2007, two years after Ben recruits Sayid in Iraq.

It's hard to believe that these events took place 2 years after they left the island... wow. It seems like a lot of this should have happened sooner. Hurley going nuts, Kate keeping Sawyer's promise/secret, etc... But the whole trail had to happen first, I guess. And there was time when Jack and Kate *weren't* together for awhile. And time before Hurley went back to Santa Rosa....

Anyway, even if there are problems with the newspaper article, it is for sure putting us in the time frame of August 2007. It'd be funny if Jack went back to the island before October, when the Sox won the series again. He just can't ever witness that, can he? ;) But that's just a joke, because clearly the scene at LAX happens at least several months after the scenes in this episode.

In fact, did Jack switch jobs? In this episode he works in a swanky office, what seems like a private facility for rich people. But in TTLB he seemed like he was at work back in his old hospital where his father was Chief.

In fact, did Jack switch jobs? In this episode he works in a swanky office, what seems like a private facility for rich people. But in TTLB he seemed like he was at work back in his old hospital where his father was Chief.

The front desk at reception said St Sebastian's Neurology Center or something like that. This looked like the offices we saw in The Hunting Party. Not sure how it really works but I think he probably has his own offices and also does surgery at the hospital.

I think they said history repeats itself, that's because they are in august 2006, not 2007. I am pretty sure its not 2007. There was a sweep, called the "boston massacre" in 18-21 august 2006 that threw Boston out of the playoff race.

The scores were terrible something like 41-10 over 3 games.

I'll bet TPTB put that there to make things even and appease Yankee fans after the reference of the Red Sox winning the series in an earlier episode. I'm not certain that they meant it to establish a time frame.

Did Kate's fridge or the x-rays Jack was looking at have any kind of dates on them--a calendar in Kate's kitchen perhaps or an imprint on the x-rays?

Someone with great tech skills will have to go look and see if there are any other images that can confirm the 2007 year issue.

This is OT for this thread. And i'm answering your question with a curious observation, since you brought up the X-RAYS.

But, wasn't Ben's tumor in the same spot as the X-RAYS Jack was looking at? L4? And as he's looking at the tumor, smokey stops by, sets off the smoke alarm, Jack takes out a battery that shouldn't exist, and then smokey becomes Christian the white rabbit...

I know..thats for a different thread...don't mean to start a tangent here.

I'll bet TPTB put that there to make things even and appease Yankee fans after the reference of the Red Sox winning the series in an earlier episode. I'm not certain that they meant it to establish a time frame. One of the episode writers, Adam Horowitz, is a rabid Yankees fan. I doubt he was trying to 'appease' anyone, he must have relished adding that reference to the show.
And I can't imagine he'd let them put in all that accurate detail and expect us to ignore it. It would be sacrilege, to him, to use his team and that glorious series that way.
100%
Which is exactly what they have between the first two paragraphs of the actual article. This was obviously put in as a time reference, so there can be little doubt that this is taking place in August of 2007, two years after Ben recruits Sayid in Iraq.
Just so. I can't imagine why people continue to insist it's not a deliberate account of the 2007 match. All the details in the story are correct for August 2007, as Horowitz would know.

we know that Ben was in Iraq talking to Sayid in Oct. 2005. He confirms that time with the girl at the hotel. Let's say this newspaper article is giving us an august 2007 time stamp for this episode.... do any of the other ff's mention specific dates? we can figure out their order in reference to each other but do we know what month/year it was when the oceanic 6 returned? time is so whack on this show... i love it!

Yeah I've been confused recently about the time frame of each FF.

I thought initially each FF was going basically in 'sequential' order and that everything was leading into the last scene we saw in TTLG.

However last weeks episode proved this untrue as it is shown where Ben first met Sayid off the island. Also what made me confused this time around also was having Hurley in the mental hospital:

In 4.1 he goes in the hospital.
In 4.8 he is out the hospital and with Sun.
In 4.10 he is in again....

So yeah I'm getting confused about each of the FF time frames that what I initially thought they were suppose to be.

All the details in the story are correct for August 2007, as Horowitz would know.

Great and valid point about Horowitz. I didn't know that actually. The details and text are ALL correct for August 2007. EXCEPT the date of the Angels & Astros game shown in the article (ESPN Link (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/recap?gameId=270620103)). And the fact that the previous series (assuming 2006) that the Yankees swept the Sox, was a FIVE game series, not a THREE game series as it states in the 99.99% copy of the original NY Times article. The change from Five to Three is a very important change, in my mind.

Agree with what's been said. The very first FF we saw, with Jack and his beard at the airport with Kate, is the very latest scene we've seen in the overall timeline. I believe that what we saw tonight happens here:

leave island -> kate's trial -> [tonight] -> airport scene with Jack and the beard

Above post is correct

Note that Hurley seeing Charlie and Jack visiting him at the b-ball court happened before this too, of course

Yeah I've been confused recently about the time frame of each FF.

I thought initially each FF was going basically in 'sequential' order and that everything was leading into the last scene we saw in TTLG.

However last weeks episode proved this untrue as it is shown where Ben first met Sayid off the island. Also what made me confused this time around also was having Hurley in the mental hospital:

In 4.1 he goes in the hospital.
In 4.8 he is out the hospital and with Sun.
In 4.10 he is in again....

So yeah I'm getting confused about each of the FF time frames that what I initially thought they were suppose to be.

Let's see if I got this right...

leave island -> 3 months later, Sun has baby/Hurley visits-> Hurley sees Charlie at C store, goes mad, meets Anna Lucia's partner, goes to Santa Rosa-> Jack visits Hurley at hoops court-> kate's trial -> [tonight] -> airport scene with Jack and the beard

Even tho the Yankees/Red Sox article appears to be from 2007, I just can't get with this scene happening after the airport scene from TTLG...I mean, it just doesn't fit.

Did Jack completely change his mind about going back...get straight...then get back with Kate and settle down???

That makes no sense.

Gotta be a prop mistake like Nikki and Paulo's paper...

No I think the very last FF so far is the airport scene between the two, Darlton have already said that it's the furthest FF.

I have a question, and to some of you it might seem a little obvious but please bare with me.

Jacks FF tonight, was that before or after TTLG? I want to think so, because it seems that this is where Jack takes his down turn.

If this is the case, why are we going backwards? it seems that all of the other FF's are going in order, or am i missing something?

Any help is appreciated:redface:

In the general Season 4 section, I have been keeping a running thread on the order of the FFs, I am pretty certain that it is correct. I have some slight confusion about when Sayid's takes place in respect to Jack's last FF, but take a look over there and maybe it can help.

Even tho the Yankees/Red Sox article appears to be from 2007, I just can't get with this scene happening after the airport scene from TTLG...I mean, it just doesn't fit. ..

It's entirely plausible that the TTLG airport scene happened after the SNBH FF.
There's nothing solid at all to date the TTLG airport scene. It could have happened in late 2007 or early 2008.

Great research here, guys.

This may be a prop error, but such a deliberate reference! Also, baseball (and the Sox in particular) were used so deliberately to establish a time frame early in Season Three (when Ben breaks out the world series tape).

I am torn as to what to think. These creators have made numerous prop errors of this nature, but this one seems too deliberate to be an error.

I'm confused now - are there any references in the flashforward from TTLG that indicate when it happened? If not, it could take place in 2015 for all we know.

I'm confused now - are there any references in the flashforward from TTLG that indicate when it happened? If not, it could take place in 2015 for all we know.

I think that it was the obituary in TTLG that was dated in April of 2007...pretty sure that was the time reference. If the Red Sox article was from August of '07...then I'm really confused!

I'm confused now - are there any references in the flashforward from TTLG that indicate when it happened? If not, it could take place in 2015 for all we know.

Unfortunately, not at all...However, I think that it happened shortly after, maybe a couple of months after...If the show would stretch into 2008 or 2009, it would be a little too much, everyone would be five years older and not as potent, and then if everyone is looking for everyone on the Island, them surviving there for five years would be a little too much, considering the fact that they barely made it three months...:eek2:

I think that it was the obituary in TTLG that was dated in April of 2007...pretty sure that was the time reference. If the Red Sox article was from August of '07...then I'm really confused!

That's a good point, except I'm pretty sure Darlton has told us rabid "screencap" fans to disregard the details of Jack's article about the funeral, including its contents and affixed date, and that those details are subject to change.

I spoiler tagged this just in case. Well, I did hear that they were

rewriting that article for an upcoming episode, so it stands to reason that the FF in TTLG still takes place after this one, and the April 2007 date for TTLG is incorrect.

That's a good point, except I'm pretty sure Darlton has told us rabid "screencap" fans to disregard the details of Jack's article about the funeral, including its contents and affixed date, and that those details are subject to change.

I spoiler tagged this just in case. Well, I did hear that they were

rewriting that article for an upcoming episode, so it stands to reason that the FF in TTLG still takes place after this one, and the April 2007 date for TTLG is incorrect.

Good news...that makes sense now. Thanks for the update...trying to stay away from spoilers but that one didn't spoil me...

Yeah, it's not really what I would call a spoiler, but some people are fanatical about knowing anything ahead of time. Many people don't watch the previews, as they consider them spoilers. It's always better to be safe than sorry.

Great and valid point about Horowitz. I didn't know that actually. The details and text are ALL correct for August 2007.

Here's just one quote about Horotwitz's Yankee love. I can provide more, if anyone doubts.

DL: We have one writer, Brian K. Vaughn, who writes comic books, and then another writer, Adam Horowitz, who's like a die-hard sports fan.
CC: Yankees fan. He used to sell hot dogs at Yankees Stadium.
100%
I think that it was the obituary in TTLG that was dated in April of 2007...pretty sure that was the time reference.
No, the news article (not obituary ) about the death was inserted into a newspaper section which included a picture and blurb about an - imo -non-relevant news event. Some fans located said picture and short blurb in an April 2007 CA newspaper. That was the entire basis for the April 2007 date.

More likely, the props department needed a newspaper in which to include the story about the death. The scene was *filmed* in April 2007. Rather than recreate an entire news page, Props used that week's LA times and inserted the death story.

I spoiler tagged this just in case. Well, I did hear that they were

rewriting that article for an upcoming episode, so it stands to reason that the FF in TTLG still takes place after this one, and the April 2007 date for TTLG is incorrect.

According to Lostpedia, this (the dates on the newspapers) was ..."unlikely, the validity of either of these dates is in question."

Lostpedia: Something Nice Back Home:
[ http://lostpedia.com/wiki/Something_Nice_Back_Home#General ]

This being the "official" website for losties...one would think that someone from the show would visit with us and clear the matter.

So, I'll go with the 4/5/07 date as being prop error. If so, we have not established date for the obituary/coffin/funeral/"We have to go back!" TTLG. It now comes AFTER 8/31/07.

Given that they get off the island mid-January 05...that's a pretty long time.

And b4 u ask where I came up with Mid-Jan 05. Juliette told Sun, right around Christmas 04 that she needed to get off the island in 2 0r 3 weeks. Apparently she did, given Ji Yeon healthy state...so that gets them off the island mid-Jan 05.

I have 2 comments:

1) When I watched the scene a second time it didnt seem like Jack was upset with ARod's performance but it sounded like Jack seemed surprised to see ARod on the Yankees, or he at least it seemed like he read it as an upsetting reminder like "oh yeah i forgot ARod was on the yankees". Not sure what this means but it might play into some sort of memory loss because ARod came to the Yankees in 2004 before flight 815 crashed.

2) TTLG would be the only episode ever shown that takes place during a time period in the future with relation to when it was aired.... kinda interesting.

Unfortunately, not at all...However, I think that it happened shortly after, maybe a couple of months after...If the show would stretch into 2008 or 2009, it would be a little too much, everyone would be five years older and not as potent, and then if everyone is looking for everyone on the Island, them surviving there for five years would be a little too much, considering the fact that they barely made it three months...:eek2:

One thing that really jumped out at me as a possible reference for time in Jack's TTLG FF was a poster in the background that said NOW! I always wondered if that wasn't a clue as to when that was supposed to be happening. So, I tend to think it's 2007. Also, since the show began on 9/22/04 and that's the real-time date as well, I always wondered if they'd end it the same way. Moving all the up to May of 2010.