1. Pilot looks out window.
2. Pilot gets yanked out window.
3. Pilot screams.
4. Blood spatters on window.
5. Jack, Kate and Charlie LATER see a body in a tree.

From the above we ASSUME that:
1. Pilot was yanked from window by Monster.
2. Pilot was killed, in the process spilling blood on window.
3. Pilot's body left in tree.

But what do we KNOW? Just what is in the first list. We don't KNOW the pilot is killed. We don't KNOW it was his blood on the window. We don't KNOW it was him in the tree. He could be alive. How and Why? I don't know that either. I have learned not to take anything in this show for granted!

I agree, the pilot being dead is an assumption.* If it were a murder mystery, the mere fact that he was disfigured would be enough to make me doubt that the pilot was killed.* They never disfigure the victims* without a good (sneaky) reason in murder mysteries.* * :laugh:* Whether Lost is being that sneaky though... no way to know, without further information.* But I take your point.* *:)

One thing: The pilot was played by Greg Grunberg, an actor who's a regular on Alias, and has since he was a little boy been a friend of J. J. Abrams, which suggests he's not getting written out of Alias any time soon.

So even if the pilot is alive, it's unlikely that we will see very much more of him.

You people are nutso.

Well, how do we know the plane even crashed?!?!!? ALL WE SEE is the plane break apart, and then later we see the plane's parts scattered on the beach. BUT WE NEVER SEE THE PLANE CRASH!!!! OH MY GOSH!

C'mon people. You are making it impossible for them to even tell you a story now if you are going to obsess over something like that. I don't think they could be any more straightforward about the pilot being killed by the monster.

Yes, the show has an element of mystery into it. But let's not completely abandon our minds here. We have to trust the things they do give us. Heck, if you want to do that... then we don't even know if the guy that got sucked into the engine died. We just see him float towards the engine, and get sucked in, and then the engine explodes. But we never actually see him die. Hey, I know! Maybe Claire isn't really pregnant! Maybe she's just got a pillow stuffed under her shirt! We've never actually seen the baby! While were at it, I'm pretty sure Jin and Sun are from the moon - they haven't showed us specifically that they ARE NOT from the moon, so they most likely ARE FROM THE MOON! Yeee haw! I'm nutso now as well!!!

Now, maybe Jin and Sun really are from the moon - but, until that is confirmed in the show, I'm not really going to believe that. I'm going to go with the universe the writers are most likely adhering to, and assume that Jin and Sun are humans from earth. Likewise, when a character is ripped out of a window, lets out a blood curling scream, followed by a splash of blood, and then I see his body later... near where his pilot wings were found... then I'm going to assume he's dead.

If I wanted to show that someone was just killed by a mysterious, and not-yet-to-be-revealed monster, this is exactly how I would do it:
1. Pilot looks out window.
2. Pilot gets yanked out window.
3. Pilot screams.
4. Blood spatters on window.
5. Jack, Kate and Charlie LATER see a body in a tree.

I'd also have one of the characters pick up the "pilot's wings" from an area directly below the body.

If you can't watch that scene and conclude the pilot is dead... then I've got some property I want to sell you.

The reason I didn't dismiss the theory as a POSSIBILITY (the note title claiming it as a fact IS rather silly) is that a lot of our evidence about the monster seems kind of self-contradictory. And if there really is a huge monster like that, there seemingly should be a lot more definitive (and involuntary) sightings by now.

I really don't think there is a monster -- i would guess that the people at ABC had to be "pitched" there is this monster in order to pick up the show --- Since they couldn't rely on sex -- given it's early time slot to sell the show ABC needed some other eye cathing point -- the monster --
But the monster doesn't really exist --

Therefore the pilot could still be alive...............

But then why do Abrams and the writers refer to the monster? They say things like... "we know what the monster is", etc.

Just my point Sledgeweb -- they say we don't know what the monster is --

They created a monster to "sell" the idea of LOST -- now they have to figure out what to make the monster and how it figures into the island - plot -- etc ---
I really don't think the monster was part of the original idea behind LOST -- I think it was added for those higher ups at ABC that "needed" more to "sell" If you think back to the ads promoting LOST -- EVERYONE had the MONSTER moving the trees and everyone looking scared -- they used the Monster to promote the show ( it was the reason I chose NOT to watch LOST - only after they re-ran the first three episodes did I tune in ) I really don't think the monster has anything to do with the show at all and therefore now that it is a hit they can "write it out" --

JUST my IDEA -- love to hear new ones and why I am wrong :)

Care

It's called a monster because its big (we presume) loud and sounds scary as hell. But I doubt it is a monster to us...it is probably going to be something we see or hear of everyday and would never see it as a "monster".

We don't know for sure that the pilot is in fact dead, but I would presume he is.

Sledgeweb, you bring up a good point, the writers cannot show us everything, so things are left to the imagination and are supposed to be taken at face value. I would assume the pilot is dead from what I have seen. But considering the Hearts and Minds episode, who knows what kind of hallucinations these people are having :laugh: Also the monster did not kill Locke...and it didn't "eat" the Pilot....so we can't assume this thing is harmful after all.

I think the "monster" is probably a machine, like some form of construction machinery. The one thing that leads me to believe this is the comment about the noise sounding familiar from the bronx. I am from NY and all you ever hear is construction, which is what the "monster" sounded like, a machine moving, it also kind of sounded like a train as well (but I know its not a train)

You people are nutso.

Well, how do we know the plane even crashed?!?!!? ALL WE SEE is the plane break apart, and then later we see the plane's parts scattered on the beach. BUT WE NEVER SEE THE PLANE CRASH!!!! OH MY GOSH!

C'mon people. You are making it impossible for them to even tell you a story now if you are going to obsess over something like that. I don't think they could be any more straightforward about the pilot being killed by the monster.

Yes, the show has an element of mystery into it. But let's not completely abandon our minds here. We have to trust the things they do give us. Heck, if you want to do that... then we don't even know if the guy that got sucked into the engine died. We just see him float towards the engine, and get sucked in, and then the engine explodes. But we never actually see him die. Hey, I know! Maybe Claire isn't really pregnant! Maybe she's just got a pillow stuffed under her shirt! We've never actually seen the baby! While were at it, I'm pretty sure Jin and Sun are from the moon - they haven't showed us specifically that they ARE NOT from the moon, so they most likely ARE FROM THE MOON! Yeee haw! I'm nutso now as well!!!

Now, maybe Jin and Sun really are from the moon - but, until that is confirmed in the show, I'm not really going to believe that. I'm going to go with the universe the writers are most likely adhering to, and assume that Jin and Sun are humans from earth. Likewise, when a character is ripped out of a window, lets out a blood curling scream, followed by a splash of blood, and then I see his body later... near where his pilot wings were found... then I'm going to assume he's dead.

If I wanted to show that someone was just killed by a mysterious, and not-yet-to-be-revealed monster, this is exactly how I would do it:
1. Pilot looks out window.
2. Pilot gets yanked out window.
3. Pilot screams.
4. Blood spatters on window.
5. Jack, Kate and Charlie LATER see a body in a tree.

I'd also have one of the characters pick up the "pilot's wings" from an area directly below the body.

If you can't watch that scene and conclude the pilot is dead... then I've got some property I want to sell you.


This is the 1st ugly post I have read in here, I hope you eat your words. :P

Does this mean the Pilot had GUILT over something -- his fear that he did wrong -- MAYBE he was working for the others and purposely crashed the plane ?

OR Maybe he was paid by the psychic to take it down to get rid of Claire -- and he was to be rescued --OK that one is stretching it --

Or maybe he was just scared from the noises it was making and stuff. They were in the cockpit, they couldn't see it all they could do was hear and see the shadow (kinda....which looked like a crane to me) I would of been scared as hell too, so I think it was that kind of fear.

However, when Locke saw it I think he was surprised and just couldn't believe it.

He's dead Jim.* *

-Bones McCoy

He's dead Jim.* *

-Bones McCoy


LOL!!! :lol2:

Also if you look at the body in the tree it has three stripes in the shouder, just as the pilot had. I know, because I checked thinking it could have been the co-pilots body that fell out of the cockpit when Jack smashed the door open. Soon got that theory shot down when I checked though, as the pilot had the 3 stripes and the co-pilot only had 2 stripes.

Oh well, back to the drawing board......for the 50,040,815,162,342th time :-\

You people are nutso.

Well, how do we know the plane even crashed?!?!!? ALL WE SEE is the plane break apart, and then later we see the plane's parts scattered on the beach. BUT WE NEVER SEE THE PLANE CRASH!!!! OH MY GOSH!

C'mon people. You are making it impossible for them to even tell you a story now if you are going to obsess over something like that. I don't think they could be any more straightforward about the pilot being killed by the monster.

Yes, the show has an element of mystery into it. But let's not completely abandon our minds here. We have to trust the things they do give us. Heck, if you want to do that... then we don't even know if the guy that got sucked into the engine died. We just see him float towards the engine, and get sucked in, and then the engine explodes. But we never actually see him die. Hey, I know! Maybe Claire isn't really pregnant! Maybe she's just got a pillow stuffed under her shirt! We've never actually seen the baby! While were at it, I'm pretty sure Jin and Sun are from the moon - they haven't showed us specifically that they ARE NOT from the moon, so they most likely ARE FROM THE MOON! Yeee haw! I'm nutso now as well!!!

Now, maybe Jin and Sun really are from the moon - but, until that is confirmed in the show, I'm not really going to believe that. I'm going to go with the universe the writers are most likely adhering to, and assume that Jin and Sun are humans from earth. Likewise, when a character is ripped out of a window, lets out a blood curling scream, followed by a splash of blood, and then I see his body later... near where his pilot wings were found... then I'm going to assume he's dead.

If I wanted to show that someone was just killed by a mysterious, and not-yet-to-be-revealed monster, this is exactly how I would do it:
1. Pilot looks out window.
2. Pilot gets yanked out window.
3. Pilot screams.
4. Blood spatters on window.
5. Jack, Kate and Charlie LATER see a body in a tree.

I'd also have one of the characters pick up the "pilot's wings" from an area directly below the body.

If you can't watch that scene and conclude the pilot is dead... then I've got some property I want to sell you.


Actually, we never did see the plane crash, which creates the first and biggest and most basic question of the sereis so far, which is, if the plane actually crashed, how did these people survive? So what you have taken as basic fact can't possibly be what actually happenned in the story.

Sun is from Mars, Jin is from Venus.

I'm not a very good judge of what's real on this show. I was just sure that Shannon was dead. I'm pretty sure Boone is a goner too, so I'm sure he'll be up dancing the polka with the pilot in the next episode.

Well, my post wasn't meant to be mean, just a bit sarcastic - to drive home the point that you have to trust some things the writers are telling us, or else you end up questioning everything -- which takes you out of the reality the show is trying to create and maintain.

Now, at this point, we are to assume - for some reason - these people have survived a very bad plane crash. Perhaps later, we'll realize they weren't in a plane crash at all. Maybe they are really all characters in a SIMMS game that some 8 year old kid is playing in Poland. But, for where we are at NOW in the show, we have to trust what the writers and characters have told us. Even in this last episode, Boone referred to them being in a plane crash. And Kate has said she was conscious during the whole thing.

So... I'm just saying, let's try not to tear down the world the show is creating by questioning every minute detail. Here we are in episode 19, and people are questioning whether or not the pilot who was mauled in the first episode is really dead. I don't think the writer's really want us to be hung up on something like that. It's really holding us back from the progression of the story.

No harm intended,

I sympathize with your message, sledgeweb. I, too, find myself often frustrated by the tiny details some people choose to question. However, I think in this instance, the writers did not give us enough to simply take the pilot's death at face value. While I firmly believe he was killed in that scene, it was not as clear-cut as it could have been, and as you make it sound.

Take note of the fact that the body (presumed to be the pilot's) was not recognizable and was not on the ground. Why? If the writers wished to eliminate the possibility that this perhaps wasn't the pilot's body, why not have the body on the ground, and still moderately recognizable? Why put the body in the tree? What is the writers' motivation for that? Why not just show us that it is the pilot? They deliberately put the body in the tree.

As I said, I don't think the pilot is alive, and I'm assuming that what we witnessed was the death of the pilot, and that the body indeed belonged to him, but I also concede that the writers appear to have (perhaps intentionally) left it debateable as to whether or not the body in the tree was actually the pilot's.

My take on the body being in the tree was that it was to demonstrate the size and power of the monster. Similar to the shot of Locke from the monster's point of view... very high up, looking down on him.

Oviously, though, anything can happen...

They could have put it in a tree and still made it identifiable.*

And the reason we question it is not some kind of disrespect or disregard of the writers, it's years and years of TV-watching and seeing exactly this kind of smoke and mirrors scene play out.* *

I really don't think there is a monster -- i would guess that the people at ABC had to be "pitched" there is this monster in order to pick up the show --- Since they couldn't rely on sex -- given it's early time slot to sell the show ABC needed some other eye cathing point -- the monster --
But the monster doesn't really exist --

Therefore the pilot could still be alive...............


I too belive this. I was just thinking the other day that it was weird that the pilot episode had a different feel than the newer ones. The pilot for the first episode seemed to feature the idea of their being a "monster". My husband keeps saying that he thinks that they didn't really think the show would pick up and go this far so they are kind of scrambling and are all over the place. I watch Alias as well and I think that sometimes JJ and the writers leave holes in the grand storyline open.

I don't think there is actually a "monster" either. To me, I think that there is some explanation to the "monster" but I don't think that it's the same thing that's making the noise. I actually think the noises we are hearing is some sort of machinery or the parts of the plane creaking and cracking and falling apart.

Hey Y'all,

It is possible he is still alive, However, what purpose would he serve??? Could he be one of the others??? I ponder the possibilities.

Boston

Hey Y'all,

It is possible he is still alive, However, what purpose would he serve??? Could he be one of the others??? I ponder the possibilities.

Boston


Hey, every island should have somebody with a friendly smile who does magic tricks. :)

(That's a joke based on the fact that he was played by Greg Grunberg, the actor who plays Eric Weiss on Alias.)

Theories like this are fun, but I'm confident the pilot is dead. The flayed body resting in the tree even looked like Greg Grunberg (if you can imagine Greg Grunberg flayed).

In my expert opinion, ;) the pilot is dead. What use could the island have for the pilot, to keep him alive? Why wouldn't the monster eat him? He looked pretty good... lol, j/k. And if he is alive, why hasn't there been anything else about him in the show? Why haven't they hinted to us in the show that maybe, just maybe he's not dead? Well, that's b/c he is dead.

They had to have someone they could kill off right away to bring the monster into the show. Who better than the pilot who we only just met? And it was kinda surprising that he got ripped out a window in the cockpit! It added the mystery about the monster and sucked people into the show. I don't think the pilot's alive.
Just my 2 cents.

:-*

1. Pilot looks out window.
2. Pilot gets yanked out window.
3. Pilot screams.
4. Blood spatters on window.
5. Jack, Kate and Charlie LATER see a body in a tree.

From the above we ASSUME that:
1. Pilot was yanked from window by Monster.
2. Pilot was killed, in the process spilling blood on window.
3. Pilot's body left in tree.

But what do we KNOW? Just what is in the first list. We don't KNOW the pilot is killed. We don't KNOW it was his blood on the window. We don't KNOW it was him in the tree. He could be alive. How and Why? I don't know that either. I have learned not to take anything in this show for granted!


Good thing to learn. I think the pilot was a plant, to further the belief of the Losties that they'd actually been thru a plane crash (rather than their having been gassed & kidnapped from an airliner). The pilot was rigged with elastic so that when he released the catch, he'd spring up into the tree and play dead in a place where nobody could examine his 'dead body".

"Shirt"

Hey Dr. Suds

I'm with you on this one. Hidden in plain sight. I watched a rerun of M*A*S*H last night, and Hawkeye is jealous of his room-mates replacement. He thinks his jokes are lame, so the newbie sets up a 24 hour joke-off.

Turns out that everyone who got pranked was in on the prank, and the real joke was getting Hawkeye to get all paranoid.

I've probably seen this episode before, but it sucked me in again. I didn't see it coming at all.

The pilot is dead people. THE END. STOP TALKING ABOUT THIS.

The pilot is dead people. THE END. STOP TALKING ABOUT THIS.


i don't want to be rude, but this section of the forum is for speculations. You may think he's dead, it doesn't mean he is

Anyway, it's not unusual in TV shows to have a character be "killed" or so it seems, and to see his character again on the show after a season or 2

I don't agree with those who think the pilot no longer serves a purpose on the show
First of all, he may know quite a lot about the crash
And also he may be the only one, except Danielle, who could make some sense of the equations on the maps

The pilot is dead people. THE END. STOP TALKING ABOUT THIS.


Exactly why should we stop talking about this?* Because you don't agree?* If we stopped talking every time someone disagreed with us, there'd be no more message board.*

Might I suggest that if you don't agree with a thread, either present arguments against it or move on to another thread that's more to your liking.

It's more than possible that the pilot is still alive.* For all we know, his "death" was deliberately obscured so that the writers would have the opportunity to bring the character back at a later time, should they choose to.* Maybe he's dead; maybe he isn't.* Maybe he was a plant; maybe he really was the pilot.* Almost everything the survivors think they know about the Island's relative position is based on what the pilot told them, and the rest they think they know came from Danielle who's a few fries short of a Happy Meal.*

From what I've read, it appears the writers know, in the overall story arc, what the answers to the mysteries are.* However, the manner in which the information is presented to the audience is more fluid.* If they're smart (which I think we can agree they are), they're giving themselves as many options as possible and leaving as many doors open as possible.

They left so many doors open the sceene with 'The Pilot' at the airport in Exodus flew out to the DVD window
Still don't understand why there was not more outrage at this.

FOOD FOR THOUGHT:

Whose "death" was INDENTICAL IN EVERY WAY to the pilot's? Pulled up out of sight by unseen "monster", found immediately after ripped to shreds? SHANNON. Who is (at least for the time being) NOT DEAD.

Not to add to anyone's confusion but Gregg isn't returning to Alias.

The pilot is dead people. THE END. STOP TALKING ABOUT THIS.
:eek2:

sorry i just read the first few posts, so forgive me if this has already been mentioned, One thing: The pilot was played by Greg Grunberg, an actor who's a regular on Alias, and has since he was a little boy been a friend of J. J. Abrams, which suggests he's not getting written out of Alias any time soon.

about that - Greg Grundberg isn't in the 5th season of ALIAS, so perhaps he might make a return- or i heard something about him starring in his own show.... anyway just a thought...

sorry lemondrop saw ur post just then...