So, I've been thinking a lot about Alpert's test, and its similarities to the Dali Lama reincarnation test. I think it serves a similar purpose, but I don't think its reincarnation that's being tested for in this case.

I don't think Alpert was trying to see if Locke was the reincarnation of another person. I think that Alpert knew that Locke had stated living his life over again--the same life, the same soul, but another time around. Or it could also be less linear, and Alpert just knows that Locke is unstuck in time. My theorey works for either of those.

Alpert was testing Locke to see how available the memories of his future are to him. Locke has the ability to move through time as he pleases, but it something that has to develop, and Alpert's conclusion is that Locke isn't ready. I remember hearing that the original name of the show was going to be "The Circle" or something like that. Maybe the more Locke relives his life, the more he will carry with him to the next go-round but he isn't carrying enough with him yet to be brought to the island. Who knows how many more times around the Locke we see on the island has gone through.

This could also explain what Darlton said, I think in one of the podcasts thatat the end of the season, the whole concept of flashBACK and flashFORWARD would be irrelevant.

Sorry, I'm doing this on my lunch break at work, so I don't think I'm explaining my thoughts in the most coherant way.

Your idea is profound, but not necessarily what the writers have in mind, tho I hope so! Kind of a "groundhog day meets apocalypse now" (bit of a joke) but really you might be right.

quote:
at the end of the season, the whole concept of flashBACK and flashFORWARD would be irrelevant.

Aha, like the time ribbon in Star Trek:Generations. Past, present and future all take place at the same time.

I agree with the OP. I have posted many times that I feel Locke is doing this all again. I have always used this scene to make the point. In S1 E2 or 3 Jack is dangling from a a cliff after chasing his father through the jungle with Locke nowhere around or even aware of this. Locke saves Jack from certain death and says "I knew I'd find you here". Well now we sort of know how.

quote:
at the end of the season, the whole concept of flashBACK and flashFORWARD would be irrelevant.

Aha, like the time ribbon in Star Trek:Generations. Past, present and future all take place at the same time.

In Kurt Vonnegut's Slaughterhouse-Five (which was notably alluded to in "The Constant") the Tralfamadorians could see 4 dimensions;the 4th one being time. So for them the past, present, and future were all occurring at the same time. They already knew what was gonna happen, and nothing could be changed, prevented, etc. This is starting to make a lot more sense now!!!! I love this!

Excellent theory. One thats got me very interested now :)

Excellent theory. One thats got me very interested now :)

Okey dokey then, 3 threads on this now, but they will probably end up merging this one into one of the other 2 threads running on this subject now. Hey GH, you shoulda probably checked out the "Special Lostie/Alpert's Item Test" or the "Which Item Belonged To Locke Thread" first, since we've got alot of discussion about this same topic there. Not sayin', just sayin'...If your interested Faraday, maybe here's kinda what you've been looking for below:
100% 5-11-2008 2:29am
It all starts off bad when Richard sees the Smokey drawing by kiddie Locke, and then things go south faster than a rocket with a rocket up it's butt from there on out with the interview. Nothing good can come of this...and the swans on kiddie Lock's backgammon board don't bode so well either...

I think it's meant to be a reincarnation test on the level of your own reincarnation in a freaky twist. It would be more of a memory/personality test then, which would include how much you remember from your "past life" on the island and about what kind of person you will become because, and wrap your head around this now, : Locke is choosing the knife because of his time on the island. Locke's time on the island and his imprints of it have totally changed kiddie Locke now...now he wants the knife! Because of the imprinting, the knife just "feels right" now and maybe subconsciously he knows it is the path back to the island. It reveals how his time on the island has now shaped kiddie Locke into something different. It has now become a vicious wrinkle in time or a loop because island Locke formed kiddie Locke, not the other way around!

When I said that John Locke felt like he was the reincarnation of, uhmmm John Locke, that was just a vibe, but now I think I know what I meant when I said that. Kiddie John Locke has imprints of a past life type deal on the island. I know, past life sounds weird and is twisty-freaky, but this show is twisty-freaky too. It could validate where I think the island could be kept and one place is that it is held in the past. This way, no interference from the primitives (like the people who built 4 toe) and surrounding primitives in the world, because the rest of the world is just that-primitive. No interference from the present/future people because they can't find you in the past. Wether this is the case or my other favorite, the 11th dimension link, we still do know that time and your perception of time are all different on the island. So maybe that could've had some effect on the situation.

Go test them all Richard, and see how many more future Losties are now warped little kids coming to kill you're people and destroy your island. Now Richard is going back and checking for this, and dammit now he has a wrinkle to iron out because their island has now created the exact force that will be coming to destroy their island in the first place. Richard, in effect is having to deal with his own island version of The Valenzetti Equation. Now it's trying to fix things after the fact, it seems, to correct things before the fact.

Just as in the Valenzetti equation, 4 8 15 16 23 42, there are 6 numbers and one number must be changed to save mankind, so with 6 items the fate of one of these people must be changed also to save islandkind. If you can break one of these people out of the cycle, and they go a different direction in life, and you can be there to stop your enemy from facilitating them on to the island despite what you have changed, then I submit that all this destruction should not come to pass, because you were able to change one of the variables in this equation, hence changing the outcome of this equation.

6 Numbers. 6 Items. 6 survivors. Man that's 666-kinda creepy, huh? And I would say that John Locke is no messiah or Jesus Christ figure, because he's basically the anti-christ to the Others and has brought apocalypse to bear. And they had somewhat of a hand in creating this very dangerous "man of faith" who like the Revelations anti-christ suffered a terrible wound, but through a "miracle", rises up like a phoenix to take command as the saviour. Sounding familiar at all? It's in the Bible.

Remember, he's working with Ben but he never "joined the others", he "infiltrated" the Others as he explained to Sawyer. But, I still have a feeling Ben could be running some kind of "long con" on Locke to help accomplish something that he needs him for. Locke is very "amenable to coercion" and usually get's screwed as a result of misplaced trust, and for some reason I think Ben is using this to his advantage even though it might not look that way at the moment. John Locke never wants to leave the island, and that could be a problem for the people who are trying to make sure that you never reach the island.

If this is the case, because it is pretty wild to think about and maybe I am being a "creative writer" on this one, but, if this is the case, then you can bet that there could be the same tests administered to crucial Losties who came to the island and caused the most grief for the Others. Kate, sure. Sayid, sure. Sawyer, sure. Hurley, sure. Jack, sure. Sun, sure. Locke, sure. And the interesting thing is that most of these people survived, and most of these people dealt crippling blows to the Others by actually killing alot of them and the stations. Most if not all of these Losties end up with the Other's blood on their hands. You gotta change one of these peoples fates so they don't end up on the island and that can break the chain. Or, maybe it's just Locke they have to worry about here, I dunno.

One thing that I believe is a common theme is that everyone of them is highly resourceful and incredibly rebellious, even Walt. And they all have authority figure issues, such as daddy issues and law enforcement issues, and my boss Randy is a jerk issues. Like I said-authority issues. And is the island responsible for them turning in to these kinds of people when it could have gone a different way and they could have been different people entirely? And Desmond, our rebellious Scotsman is cut from the same cloth as the rest of them, and has proven amenable to facilitation.

So, here's the kicker, the punch line if you will. Hurley and Jack are right: now they have to go back to the island, a place of redemption because until they are redeemed they will remain the same people whose island induced traits start the whole vicious cycle off. They need to make a change and receive a redemption so that they will change into the people they should have been, not the people they were forced to be, which will change the equation. Change the person, change the equation. Then, if they were to go back around and test kiddie Locke again, he would make the right choice because he will no longer be the same kiddie Locke anymore with a bad taste of the island left lingering in his mind.

If Locke goes for the right object, then Richard can see that Locke is on the correct path, and this is more likely what he will pursue-mission accomplished. But when he grabs the knife, Richard is pissed because now, like I said, they are confronted with their own little Valenzetti Equation to work out. Also, for instance, if he went to see Kate he might take the 6 items, but they would be 6 different items for her, because I would have to bet my last dollar that if this did indeed occur, Kates model airplane she fought so hard to get would be the one item that Alpert would not want her to choose...

Redemption will bring an end to the vicious cycle in itself, but could this whole thing have started because Ben needed a spinal surgeon and whattya know...one falls right out of the sky! (<>..<>)

So was Alpert trying to get Locke grounded by showing him an object representing a constant?

Is this test needed for anyone who was near the hatch explosion (e.g. Locke, Desmond and Charlie)?

Go test them all Richard, and see how many more future Losties are now warped little kids coming to kill you're people and destroy your island. Now Richard is going back and checking for this, and dammit now he has a wrinkle to iron out because their island has now created the exact force that will be coming to destroy their island in the first place. Richard, in effect is having to deal with his own island version of The Valenzetti Equation. Now it's trying to fix things after the fact, it seems, to correct things before the fact.

If Locke goes for the right object, then Richard can see that Locke is on the correct path, and this is more likely what he will pursue-mission accomplished. But when he grabs the knife, Richard is pissed because now, like I said, they are confronted with their own little Valenzetti Equation to work out. Also, for instance, if he went to see Kate he might take the 6 items, but they would be 6 different items for her, because I would have to bet my last dollar that if this did indeed occur, Kates model airplane she fought so hard to get would be the one item that Alpert would not want her to choose... [/I]

You are assuming here that Richard is the GOOD guy. Who is Richard working for? Why is Richard sent off Island to visit John's birth, to recruit Juliet, etc.? Why not Ben? Why not another Other? Why Richard? ;) ;)

You are assuming here that Richard is the GOOD guy. Who is Richard working for? Why is Richard sent off Island to visit John's birth, to recruit Juliet, etc.? Why not Ben? Why not another Other? Why Richard? ;) ;)

I think "good and bad" are blurring into "shades of gray" so I'm not 100% sure Richard is the GOOD guy but...
I do feel certain that Richard is different than Ben and the other Others....I don't think he "time travels" like Ben.
I think Richard,Abaddon, and probably Ms.Hawkings are "timeless"..I think they have been around for 100's of years.

I also believe Juliet was recruited by Richard bec/ she was "special" not bec/ Ben wanted a fertility expert. Or at that time,Richard really believed in Ben and thought by doing Ben's bidding,he was doing as JACOB wanted.

I do feel certain that Richard is different than Ben and the other Others....I don't think he "time travels" like Ben.
I think Richard,Abaddon, and probably Ms.Hawkings are "timeless"..I think they have been around for 100's of years.

he was doing as JACOB wanted.

Ooh, I agree Richard is different somewhat like Ms. Hawkings.
So, the little school room cabin seems to have a substitue teacher, Christian. Is Jacob sick? On vacation? Seems like Christian is doing some recruiting (Claire) or a new pupil? Ooh, this is getting good! ;)

Ooh, I agree Richard is different somewhat like Ms. Hawkings.
So, the little school room cabin seems to have a substitue teacher, Christian. Is Jacob sick? On vacation? Seems like Christian is doing some recruiting (Claire) or a new pupil? Ooh, this is getting good! ;)
LOL!!!
It does seem like a school room cabin!
I still have a feeling that the "Christian" we saw was not really speaking for Jacob. That "Christian" seemed sinister to me. Wasn't there a scary movie about a Substitute Teacher? :D

Do you think Jacob is "imprisioned" somehow?

LOL!!!
It does seem like a school room cabin!
I still have a feeling that the "Christian" we saw was not really speaking for Jacob. That "Christian" seemed sinister to me. Wasn't there a scary movie about a Substitute Teacher? :D

Do you think Jacob is "imprisioned" somehow?

We need to learn something from this school room.
Family genetics MAYBE important and so Aaron could be in danger. Someone is missing... Jack maybe?
Remember, Ben said he couldn't kill Widmore. (More important, Widmore didn't seem anxious about trying to kill Ben either.) Why does Ben think he can kill Penny? Could Penny be adopted??? Much like Ben's daughter? Why doesn't Ben go after other people in Widmore's family? Maybe someone easier to get to? Does he not KNOW?

Okay, family:

Aaron's father COULD BE (I'm thinking yes) Widmore's grandson. Christian is Jack and Claire's father and Aaron's maternal grandfather. There is a pattern forming in the genetics mystery of this Island.


Just in case I wrapped it.

Did Ben choose not go into the cabin because he knew Jacob wasn't there? Can we only see FAMILY in the cabin? Just a weird idea.
Can Jacob leave the Island like Ben can? Remember the smoke monster is loose! SOMEONE has to be controling it. But, who? Perhaps an Other or Family member?

locke didn't see family in the cabin

locke didn't see family in the cabin

Are we sure? :eek2:

Genetics. Hanso was looking into this... I wonder how far?

So, the little school room cabin seems to have a substitue teacher, Christian. Is Jacob sick? On vacation? Seems like Christian is doing some recruiting (Claire) or a new pupil? Ooh, this is getting good! ;)
Locke is "special" and all, but he can only very occasionally see or hear Jacob. But Christian is very "special" too, and being special + dead makes it a whole lot easier to talk with Jacob, as he was doing when Hurley first saw the cabin. Christian has been trying to manifest physically to Jack since the pilot, with limited success, but as we see in the FF's he's getting better at it, as he was actually able to speak to him. But his connection with Claire, or perhaps Claire's "specialness", is stronger. That's why she's there. It's her presence that allows him to manifest physically and speak so easily with Locke -- finally establishing a link of communication from Jacob to Locke.

We need to learn something from this school room.
Family genetics MAYBE important and so Aaron could be in danger. Someone is missing... Jack maybe?
Remember, Ben said he couldn't kill Widmore. (More important, Widmore didn't seem anxious about trying to kill Ben either.) Why does Ben think he can kill Penny? Could Penny be adopted??? Much like Ben's daughter? Why doesn't Ben go after other people in Widmore's family? Maybe someone easier to get to? Does he not KNOW?

Okay, family:

Aaron's father COULD BE (I'm thinking yes) Widmore's grandson. Christian is Jack and Claire's father and Aaron's maternal grandfather. There is a pattern forming in the genetics mystery of this Island.


Just in case I wrapped it.

Did Ben choose not go into the cabin because he knew Jacob wasn't there? Can we only see FAMILY in the cabin? Just a weird idea.
Can Jacob leave the Island like Ben can? Remember the smoke monster is loose! SOMEONE has to be controling it. But, who? Perhaps an Other or Family member?

Per your "spoiler",,,,,that would be such a great storyline! I hope it is true! It is very possible. I've always thought there might be some Hanso in Christian's and thus Aaron's bloodline. Widmore has become a key player now too. And I would love to know who Penny's mother is.
Family lineage/ancestry does seem to play a role in LOST. Remember the watch Christian passed on to Jack...it belonged to Christian's father( From "Missing Pieces)...to me that signified Christian passing on the family secrets/work of the Island to Jack.

... Christian has been trying to manifest physically to Jack since the pilot, with limited success...

And when Jack followed Christian it almost killed Jack. Locke was there to rescue him.
Is Christian trying to kill Jack?
100%
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Family lineage/ancestry does seem to play a role in LOST. Remember the watch Christian passed on to Jack...it belonged to Christian's father( From "Missing Pieces)...to me that signified Christian passing on the family secrets/work of the Island to Jack.

Genetics would probably be the correct term for me to use. Who has been altered and why? That innocent looking Richard really doesn't SEEM all that innocent to me.
So, do you get the feeling that Christian has been on the Island before? You know, the Island wouldn't let him die? Do you think Jacob has a watch? Maybe had a watch?

And when Jack followed Christian it almost killed Jack. Locke was there to rescue him.
Is Christian trying to kill Jack?
100%


Genetics would probably be the correct term for me to use. Who has been altered and why? That innocent looking Richard really doesn't SEEM all that innocent to me.
So, do you get the feeling that Christian has been on the Island before? You know, the Island wouldn't let him die? Do you think Jacob has a watch? Maybe had a watch?
Wow! I forgot about Christian(in the white shoes) almost killing Jack.Possibly though,he knew Locke would rescue him?
I wouldn't be suprised to find out that Christian has been there before...hmmmm....I like it!

But Christian is very "special" too, and being special + dead makes it a whole lot easier to talk with Jacob, as he was doing when Hurley first saw the cabin. Christian has been trying to manifest physically to Jack since the pilot, with limited success, but as we see in the FF's he's getting better at it, as he was actually able to speak to him.

Just a tangential thought, might this be why Christian drank himself to death? Maybe he was seeing visions and was trying to escape? Maybe even something/someone told him that he needed to go see Claire?

Just a tangential thought, might this be why Christian drank himself to death? Maybe he was seeing visions and was trying to escape? Maybe even something/someone told him that he needed to go see Claire?

Do you remember Ben and Widmore's meeting? Widmore has alcohol on his night stand and Ben made a comment. It reminded me of Christian and Jack. Bad dreams??
Ben said he USED to have dreams. Maybe that is why Ben isn't currently drinking... still Ben could be using something else I guess. :eek2: :biggrin:

* plucking strings on the harp of a cruel sister *

* plucking strings on the harp of a cruel sister *

LOL! So, Alpert was testing Locke for his special school? What do you suppose Alpert was going to teach him?

Boone: Do they teach you how to predict the weather at a box company?

Boone: Do they teach you how to predict the weather at a box company?

So, Locke worked at a box company during the day, but at night.... Like Superman, he had an alter-ego?

So, Locke worked at a box company during the day, but at night.... Like Superman, he had an alter-ego?

Cooper: Your wasting your time, bug-eye. Me and him have been through all this. All he wants is his daddy...

Locke: I like Boxing...

...Locke: I like Boxing...

I think I figured out why Albert was testing Locke, but I believe it is a spoiler. :eek2: If you want to know just private message me. :biggrin: It has nothing to do with reincarnation, time travel or time-slipping in the mind thing. It has not been mentioned here.

I'm trying to figure out how it is that Alpert never ages.Also, I'm wondering if Alpert was recruiting people to bring to the island. I think that maybe he is the reason that Ben ended up on the island, and he is the reason that perhaps Eathan ended up there too. Maybe Alpert is a recruiter.

I'm trying to figure out how it is that Alpert never ages.Also, I'm wondering if Alpert was recruiting people to bring to the island. I think that maybe he is the reason that Ben ended up on the island, and he is the reason that perhaps Eathan ended up there too. Maybe Alpert is a recruiter.

I think Albert looks like a pirate the first time he meets little Ben. I like his pirate look!

Where do you think the Hostiles lived before they moved into the Dharma barracks and cleaned up?