I keep thinking that neither Ben's nor Locke's father are biological fathers.
Maybe Mittelos, Portland inseminated some women with genetic material which they hoped to produce their new leader. When Emily Linus and Roger wandered through the woods it was near Portland. Horace Godspeed and his Wife might be employees of Mittelos and were lucky to find EMILY Linus giving birth.

Maybe EMILY Locke took part in a similar experiment and being pushed (by a car accident) into giving birth to John there already was Mittelos's Richard Alpert at hand to have a look at the baby.

For some reasons I have the impressions that both, John and Ben are the results of Mittelos genetic research.

One question remains: who gave the genetic material for the "father's part"? A member of the Hanso-clan perhaps?

I'm thinking that perhaps all of our Losties are 'immaculately conceived'. I'd be willing, almost, to bet money that none of their so called fathers are actually blood related.

I found it interesting that Lockes healing seemed to infect Bens spine. Very bizarre

The more I am thinking about this the more I ask myself: Is the bloke who was presented as Aaron's father at Claire's flashback episode really the biological father? Can it be that Aaron too is the result of an insemination (probably not known by Claire herself) too? (Locke V 2.0)

As a doctor: How do you extract ancestral cells? Am I right they are won from a probe taken from your spine? Isn't Christian a spine doctor? (and Jack?). Wasn't Locke's paralysis caused by a fracture in his spine?

I hope they will show us something more about Mittelos Bioscience (!) in the fifth season.

I'm thinking that perhaps all of our Losties are 'immaculately conceived'. I'd be willing, almost, to bet money that none of their so called fathers are actually blood related.

We know for a fact that Claire's is...would bet Sun's is as well, you'd have to be a very brave man to screw Mr. Paik's wife!!

I have a general theory about reincarnation based on a lot of previous stuff plus stuff from this epi.. here (http://www.thefuselage.com/Threaded/showthread.php?t=95325)just so I don't repeat myself ... but I was saying something similar about the origins of the Designer babes

I think that everything on Lost that happens is significant and I thnk that Ben and Locke's mothers both being named Emily isn't a coincidence.

I think that perhaps Dharma / the Others knew that their leader would be born to a woman named Emily. Perhaps they inseminated the girls, but they seemed to be keeping tabs on Ben and John for whatever reason.

Interesting connecting the names... but could the Emilies be the same woman?

I think that everything on Lost that happens is significant and I thnk that Ben and Locke's mothers both being named Emily isn't a coincidence.

I think that perhaps Dharma / the Others knew that their leader would be born to a woman named Emily. Perhaps they inseminated the girls, but they seemed to be keeping tabs on Ben and John for whatever reason.

I guess the only problem I have is why would an 18 year old (Emily Locke) want to be inseminated. I understand Ben's mom perhaps maybe they couldn't conceive but I can't buy Locke's mother wanting a baby since she was hiding it from her mother or at least that is how it appeared.

I guess the only problem I have is why would an 18 year old (Emily Locke) want to be inseminated. I understand Ben's mom perhaps maybe they couldn't conceive but I can't buy Locke's mother wanting a baby since she was hiding it from her mother or at least that is how it appeared.


I think if they were inseminated that it was done against their will and knowledge... kinda like Scully in the X files... whose eggs were stolen from her and fertilized...

Richard's group "faked" with a scientific version the virgin birth... I don't know if the genetic father is as relevant as the reincarnation they hoped to achieve... but I wonder whose sperm was used... Richard's? Alvar's? Widmore's? Abaddon's?

I wonder because it seems that Richard is either a time traveler or an immortal being. Perhaps his sperm is super sperm and hence Locke's ability to heal. Does Ben have the same father then... or were various sperms used?

I found it interesting that Lockes healing seemed to infect Bens spine. Very bizarre

i think this is a very important point and is a part of the Themes: One is dark and One is light / Man of Science, Man of Faith / characters being recognized as different sides of the same coin.

It did seem that Emily may have been conned into conceiving by Tom Sawyer. Hell, for all we know, the Sawyer who was locked up in the Brig was a 'ghost person' like Christian or Claire!

Anywho, I'm sticking with they were all 'placed' on the plane and it will come back to their daddies and the powers behind the dharma initiative. and i'm stickin to it!

I think if they were inseminated that it was done against their will and knowledge... kinda like Scully in the X files... whose eggs were stolen from her and fertilized...

Richard's group "faked" with a scientific version the virgin birth... I don't know if the genetic father is as relevant as the reincarnation they hoped to achieve... but I wonder whose sperm was used... Richard's? Alvar's? Widmore's? Abaddon's?

I wonder because it seems that Richard is either a time traveler or an immortal being. Perhaps his sperm is super sperm and hence Locke's ability to heal. Does Ben have the same father then... or were various sperms used?

My first question would be is how did Emily Locke know she was pregnant if she was mysteriously inseminated? Other then that I think it would be Alvars sperm and I think Richard might be Alvar or in the same experiments he is in. Alvar is suppose to be 112 and doesn't look it at all becasue of experiments they were conducting.

I just don't see Cooper as having anything to do with Emily if there was nothing he could gain from it.

Remember when Emily Locke's mom said "He is more that twice your age" Her birthdate (according to Locke's detective) is 10/15/1940. So that means Locke's dad would have been born around 1925. And Cooper does not look 70 years old when Locke give him hid Kidney, which is around 10 years prior to the crash, so around 1994.

Cooper does not look near 80 when he was in an accident then woke up on the island from Ben's "magic box"

Hi All. Long time lurker, first time poster (please be gentle!) Sorry in advance if this is being discussed elsewhere. Ive looked and cant find it. Something occured to me while watching the show that I thougth for sure would be discussed....During the first flashback when we saw Emily getting ready for her date. Her mother walked in and asked are "Are you going out with HIM?" I immediately thought of Jacob. Ben & the Others always referred to Jacob as "Him" or "He". So, could it be that JACOB is actually Johns father? OK, bare with me..... Babies cant be born on the island, so Jacob leaves the island, impregnantes a woman, then has his men watch the child until he was "ready". At that point, they arrange for the son to be brought to the island to take over for Jacob.
What do you think, should I go back to lurking?!

Hi All. Long time lurker, first time poster (please be gentle!) Sorry in advance if this is being discussed elsewhere. Ive looked and cant find it. Something occured to me while watching the show that I thougth for sure would be discussed....During the first flashback when we saw Emily getting ready for her date. Her mother walked in and asked are "Are you going out with HIM?" I immediately thought of Jacob. Ben & the Others always referred to Jacob as "Him" or "He". So, could it be that JACOB is actually Johns father? OK, bare with me..... Babies cant be born on the island, so Jacob leaves the island, impregnantes a woman, then has his men watch the child until he was "ready". At that point, they arrange for the son to be brought to the island to take over for Jacob.
What do you think, should I go back to lurking?!

Welcome to the Lage!!!!!!!

Don't you dare go back to being a lurker. I am thinking exactly what you posted. There is no way Cooper can be Locke's biological father.

If he's not his father, how did he steal his kidney??? It would be a big coincidence if the kidney just matched...

Besides, no one ever said that the man she was supposed to meet got her pregnant... She was obviously hiding her pregnancy, so probably from that guy as well... Anyways, if he was in love with her (that alleged very much older guy), he would want her to have a child with him, no...

So....Ben and Locke are half-brothers?

If he's not his father, how did he steal his kidney??? It would be a big coincidence if the kidney just matched...

Besides, no one ever said that the man she was supposed to meet got her pregnant... She was obviously hiding her pregnancy, so probably from that guy as well... Anyways, if he was in love with her (that alleged very much older guy), he would want her to have a child with him, no...

Although you could be right, I cannot see the point of keeping her pregnancy secret from the man she loves...

I don't think whomever got her pregnant is in love with her. It just creeps me out to think of any man twice the age of a 15 year old would date her or do anything else!!
But no, in 1956 it was a very very horrible thing to have a baby out of wedlock. It was mostly unheard of, and yes the women would hide their pregnancies. If he wanted her to have his baby, he would have proposed to her the minute he found out she was pregnant.

I think that perhaps the man "twice her age" that she was going to meet was Richard (Alpert?).

I think an unwanted insemination can be easily acchieved when a woman visits a gynecologist. Many women do this frequently. The doctor might ask her questions about her relationships and if she is "experienced" already and when did it took place the last time. Maybe the practice was sponsored by Mittelos Bioscience.

I wonder if "Doc Arzt" has a special meaning in this connection: "Doc" (!) and "Arzt" (=German for Doctor!). Just a "science teacher"? Or did he recommend some special Science Summer Camps where people can learn anything about spiders.....

Stintfang.. That could very well be what happened. I am unsure if insemination was even done in the 50's. But that does not mean Mittelos did not have the technology. I will do some research and see if I can find any dates on anything for Mittelos...

If he's not his father, how did he steal his kidney??? It would be a big coincidence if the kidney just matched...

Besides, no one ever said that the man she was supposed to meet got her pregnant... She was obviously hiding her pregnancy, so probably from that guy as well... Anyways, if he was in love with her (that alleged very much older guy), he would want her to have a child with him, no...

The kidney matched because John has some super blood going through his veins.. anyone would match with his blood.
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If he's not his father, how did he steal his kidney??? It would be a big coincidence if the kidney just matched...

Besides, no one ever said that the man she was supposed to meet got her pregnant... She was obviously hiding her pregnancy, so probably from that guy as well... Anyways, if he was in love with her (that alleged very much older guy), he would want her to have a child with him, no...

What if the guy were Richard... Emily had a date with Richard? Richard was there looking in and Emily looked at the baby and ran away... she wanted to keep him or she was afraid of him?

Locke is Richard's son. You heard it here first...lol

The kidney matched because John has some super blood going through his veins.. anyone would match with his blood.


Now this is a great conjecture, S5. If Locke was the product of some type of insemination program from Dharma/Hanso/Widmore/Jacob/Hostiles/Island/Mittlos/Alpert (phew), then Cooper, master conman, was the perfect stand-in. And if Cooper had knowledge about the real purpose of this scam, he might know about some of the "special" attributes of Locke. If you are going to steal a kidney, why not one with magical healing powers?

Simone5p. Thanks for bringing up the superblood. I have been thinking about that too.. That Locke was genetically engineered to have perfect genetic material. I am not saying Locke is a Christlike figure... But I have read it in many places over the internet, that if Jesus Christ's DNA could be coded, it would be the perfect DNA.

Cooper could have known about Locke being genetically engineered. I do not know how he knew about Locke.. But Cooper is a conman, so he has his ways of finding out things. His life was at risk, he pulled out all the stops to find someone that had a kidney to match his.

Or he just checked the organ database.... of course this would mean Locke would have been registered.......for what and why I don't know that either.

I'm thinking that perhaps all of our Losties are 'immaculately conceived'. I'd be willing, almost, to bet money that none of their so called fathers are actually blood related.

I'm thinking that you don't know what immaculately conceived means.

Can you expand on that Nicholee????? I read the post "immaculately conceived" just to bring up what Locke's mom said. Not in the actual meaning of it. They could all be test tube babies or inseminated, something along that lines.

I'm thinking that you don't know what immaculately conceived means.

The point I was trying to make is that I believe all of our Losties have their conception issue in common. I just borrowed the phrase from Locke's Mom, point being that something is not normal about how they all came about. Kansasgal got it.:)

In TLE Alvar and Mittlewerk have something odd about their blood and then Susan Lloyd-Porter, Walt's mom, died of a blood disorder...and Bea Klugh takes Michael's blood... I really think that there is something going on at a genetic level

Well, my mistake then. It's just that most people mistake the meaning of immaculate conception for something else and from your post it seemed you were doing the same. I apologize.

simone5p.... I forgot about the TLE!! Thank you for reminding me. I remember when the "Spider Protocol" was mentioned, everyone thought it had something to do with the spiders that killed Nikki and Paulo...

I was researching it and found a website named SPIDER... I cannot find it now..but I will keep looking... SPIDER is some type of way to decode human genetic makeup. That and the Alvar's Blood, I thought maybe there was something going on that was messing with DNA.

edit....

Found the website....
http://bif.csd.uwo.ca/spider/

The software is from BIO Informatics Research Group, Department of Computer Science, Middlesex College,The University of Western Ontario.

Bioinformatics involves the use of techniques including applied mathematics (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Applied_mathematics), informatics (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Informatics), statistics (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Statistics), computer science (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Computer_science), artificial intelligence (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Artificial_intelligence), chemistry (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chemistry), and biochemistry (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biochemistry) to solve biological (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biology) problems usually on the molecular (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Molecular) level. Research in computational biology often overlaps with systems biology (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Systems_biology). Major research efforts in the field include sequence alignment (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sequence_alignment), gene finding (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gene_finding), genome assembly (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genome_assembly), protein structure alignment (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protein_structural_alignment), protein structure prediction (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protein_structure_prediction), prediction of gene expression (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gene_expression) and protein-protein interactions (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protein-protein_interactions), and the modeling of evolution (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evolution).

I'm thinking that perhaps all of our Losties are 'immaculately conceived'. I'd be willing, almost, to bet money that none of their so called fathers are actually blood related.

yes, yes, yes! i'm reading no further! :) I love to see this coming around again.

way back in S1, i wrote a theory called "The Brave New World theory". Huxley 1st wrote this book on a future human race from cloning, genetic engineering, way back in the 1930's. (BTW, later on we have seen many Huxley "winks', like the name on the dock being "Pala Ferry". Pala being the "Island" in his book "Island".)

i a nut-shell; The secret of Lost was that they are doing genetic experiments in an effort to get for the super-rich (as in Hanso, Paik, Cooper, Boone's Dad, and now Widmore) the one thing that money cannot buy...immortality!

All the main Losties are results of these experiments. they and we all were doubtful as to who their real parents are. Mix in an element of 're-incarnation', the minds of these rich men come back in new bodies at some point...

Back then I thought Christian was only the doctor who performed all the 'artificial inseminations' for them. the knowledge of this work is what drove him to drink.

Now we know he is one of the 'fathers', who participated, as the dad of Claire as well as Jack, maybe others as well.

IMO's that follow my old theory to the questions here would be:

Locke has the dna genes of Jacob, who really is Magnus Hanso (and jacob looks like him in the one scene in the cabin) Handsome Alpert 'got' young Emily, but inseminated her with Hanso, not his own. I'd guess that Alpert is not able to pro-create.

Cooper is not Locke's real 'father'. He search like was said, and found a blood match (all that which is all that is ness'y per a nurse friend of mine (I didn't say it). He paid Emily (as she admitted) to help him con Locke out of his kidney (he could've got enough to retire is he had sold it "under the table" to Cooper)

Cooper IS Sawyer's real father, and that's where it gets confusing.

I keep thinking that neither Ben's nor Locke's father are biological fathers.
Maybe Mittelos, Portland inseminated some women with genetic material which they hoped to produce their new leader. When Emily Linus and Roger wandered through the woods it was near Portland. Horace Godspeed and his Wife might be employees of Mittelos and were lucky to find EMILY Linus giving birth.

Maybe EMILY Locke took part in a similar experiment and being pushed (by a car accident) into giving birth to John there already was Mittelos's Richard Alpert at hand to have a look at the baby.

For some reasons I have the impressions that both, John and Ben are the results of Mittelos genetic research.

One question remains: who gave the genetic material for the "father's part"? A member of the Hanso-clan perhaps?

I have been on the genetics train for a long time. I have wondered if Claire wasn't subjected to someone other than Tom's DNA as well.

Also, I wondered if the reason why the women on the island were not able to survive their pregnancies is because they were impregnated by hostile men. I wonder if the hostile males were genetically different from the women that the others were recruited and/or kidnapping.

We would never really know if Sun's would have survived her pregnancy because she left before we could find out for sure.

The woman who died on Juliet's table was named Sabine. That name has a very interesting historical context:

Legend says that Romans (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roman_Kingdom) abducted Sabine women to populate the newly built town, the first recorded example of bride kidnapping (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bride_kidnapping). The resultant conflict ended only by the women throwing themselves and their children between the armies of their fathers and their husbands. The Rape of the Sabine Women (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Rape_of_the_Sabine_Women) ("rape" in this context meaning "kidnapping" rather than its modern meaning, see raptio (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raptio)) became a common motif in art; the women ending the war forms a less frequent but still reappearing motif.

Well, my mistake then. It's just that most people mistake the meaning of immaculate conception for something else and from your post it seemed you were doing the same. I apologize.

i think it was Emily who mistook the meaning of "Imm. Conc." Since she never "did it" with Alpert, she can't figure out how she got preggers.

It drove her crazy, all the way to santa rosa mental hospital. As was said, in the 50's it was a really horrible thing to have to hide. Perhaps the reason for hitting her to make her premmie? so she'd have it before it started to show, and she'd want an abortion?

JPolarBear, that is some great thinking!!! I think we know our others are not above running over people (Juliet's Hubby) The AB thing... in the 50's it was done in horrible conditions, many women lost their lives to it. Also, it did not matter how far along you were, no sonograms, I believe back then they actually did xrays on pregnant women if they were having problems with their pregnancy (my mom said) So the AB doc would have no idea how far along she was, therefore it would not matter how far along she was. Nice connection!!!

Back in season 2 ABC put up a Hanso/Dharma Iniative website. "Juxtapositional Eugenics" was one of studies being conducted by DI. Could this mean switching babies to be raised by other sets of parents?
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When Emily muttered that she was pregnant while being wheeled thru hospital, the head nurse seemed to have a spark in her eye as she exclaimed to someone cropped out of the frame, "she's pregnant!" Did the the nurse realize that the baby of a preg young woman with no wedding band was a perfect candidate for a Dharma baby-swap program?

Well Amigo, I think you are onto something....

Eugenics is selective breeding to manipulate genes to delete characteristics unwanted to give characteristics that are desired.

Juxtapositional Eugenics likely refers to eugenics through direct manipulation of genetic material. The fusion and juxtaposition of genes are well established subjects in biology. (got that from lostpedia)

Back in season 2 ABC put up a Hanso/Dharma Iniative website. "Juxtapositional Eugenics" was one of studies being conducted by DI. Could this mean switching babies to be raised by other sets of parents?
100%
When Emily muttered that she was pregnant while being wheeled thru hospital, the head nurse seemed to have a spark in her eye as she exclaimed to someone cropped out of the frame, "she's pregnant!" Did the the nurse realize that the baby of a preg young woman with no wedding band was a perfect candidate for a Dharma baby-swap program?

They sure never let her get a look at the baby.

:lipsseal:Back in season 2 ABC put up a Hanso/Dharma Iniative website. "Juxtapositional Eugenics" was one of studies being conducted by DI. Could this mean switching babies to be raised by other sets of parents?
100%
When Emily muttered that she was pregnant while being wheeled thru hospital, the head nurse seemed to have a spark in her eye as she exclaimed to someone cropped out of the frame, "she's pregnant!" Did the the nurse realize that the baby of a preg young woman with no wedding band was a perfect candidate for a Dharma baby-swap program?

OMG! this is waaay too simple, doable, reasonable. It's totally KISS. I love it. :kiss:

To add then, Alpert set the whole thing up, had her run over, I bet she wasn't even ness'ly meant to live. He already knew she was preggers. he was the older guy all along, but he didn't knock her up, right? I'm a little confused here...I do remember all that Eugenics stuff, but never really 'got it'.