This may have been mentioned before, I don't know.

I've been watching LOST without failure since day one...and there's one constant that always appears in EVERY single episode, even when it seems forced. They always have at least one scene focused on drinking the water from those Dharma/Oceanic bottles filled up from Jack's water trough.

Jack was on a quest in season one to find those caves, which turned out useless except for supplying a fresh water source still in use today for the castaways.

Christian's visions led him to the caves (where adam and eve reside), and since that day, the survivors have been living off that water.

As I said earlier, every single episode at some point zooms in on those bottles of water or the trough...its probably the most constant thing from episode to episode. I would think that its just a tropical show, except the scenes are often "forced" enough to make me believe they want us to notice it.

The water HAS to play a part in this...they spend too much time not letting us forget about it. Christian led Jack to the caves for a reason, and now seeing how Christian plays more of an important role in the events behind the scenes...theres got to be more to it.

Drugged Dharma water? A number of folks have suggested it before, might be something to it. The Apollo bars are mighty suspicious too ...

I think you're right, there is something really strange about how they focus on what our characters are drinking and eating. Between that and all the Alice's Adventures in Wonderland references, there is definitely something going on with the water and food.

dufusbot is correct, they often do that "zoom in" on the Apollo bars, too.

This may have been mentioned before, I don't know.

I've been watching LOST without failure since day one...and there's one constant that always appears in EVERY single episode, even when it seems forced. They always have at least one scene focused on drinking the water from those Dharma/Oceanic bottles filled up from Jack's water trough.

Jack was on a quest in season one to find those caves, which turned out useless except for supplying a fresh water source still in use today for the castaways.

Christian's visions led him to the caves (where adam and eve reside), and since that day, the survivors have been living off that water.

As I said earlier, every single episode at some point zooms in on those bottles of water or the trough...its probably the most constant thing from episode to episode. I would think that its just a tropical show, except the scenes are often "forced" enough to make me believe they want us to notice it.

The water HAS to play a part in this...they spend too much time not letting us forget about it. Christian led Jack to the caves for a reason, and now seeing how Christian plays more of an important role in the events behind the scenes...theres got to be more to it.

i have been waiting for someone to connect the dots to the Ladder.

People need water to survive.

Water made for the first reflective surfaces.

It's not just that they drink water all the time, it's the fact that the person drinking the water is always in center focus of the camera...with the bottles. It could just be something we see in the background, but it's always center camera.

It's become a game when I watch LOST..to watch for the forced water scene. I've suspected there is something in the water since the pilot...given how they all had little to no memory of the crash (except KATE).

At first it was all oceanic bottles...then Dharma bottles filled from the cave...now the labels have all come off and they seem generic bottles(like the one given to Lapidus in the last episode).

While it was originally new Oceanic and then Dharma bottles, since they have been filling up empty bottles with Island water, it seems harder to explain the water as drugged, as it is harder to explain Island water being naturally "drugged" than it is sealed, bottled water.
Apollo bars ... definitely something fishy with those :undecide:

Unless you consider the same forces that brought them to the island(whatever those may be) are also the same forces represented on the island. Could be the same water...who knows. Oceanic is suspect at this point. Of course, so is Dharma.

I agree about those Appolo bars.

While it was originally new Oceanic and then Dharma bottles, since they have been filling up empty bottles with Island water, it seems harder to explain the water as drugged, as it is harder to explain Island water being naturally "drugged" than it is sealed, bottled water.
Apollo bars ... definitely something fishy with those :undecide:

Well, they do have a huge gas plant thing on the island, I wouldn't be surprised if they had some sort of grand hydraulic engineering system on the island...then again, I'm not sure what would surprise me about the Island! :D

stager a big thank you...

handing over a water bottle for a drink is such a "common" "mundane" "going to the bathroom" part of life that IT just has to play a part...

might be tied to the cave
might be tied to the rain

but it's key somehow.

I'm not sure about drugged, but I love the idea of the constant drinking and eating being tied to Alice in Wonderland references! Great catch.

Food is easy to explain as I think the drop has been the same food (literally) since it started (just dropping over and over on a timer like the bunnies in the Orchid video). Is it possible that the Tempest station could have something to do with the poisoning or drugging of the water?

I'm glad you mentioned this, Stager, as it's been bugging me too. It seems so ubiquitous and so, as you say, forced, that there must be something to it.

Every now and then I try to figure if people who haven't (for some reason) been drinking from those bottles are acting differently.

Remember when Ethan gave Claire a sip from a Dharma canteen, and she grimaced? Remember when Kate said the shower was a bit sulfurous? Seems important, but I can't make anything of it. Yet.

How does THIS fit into your theory:

From Wikipedia: (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Alpert)

Dr. Richard Alpert (born April 6, 1931), also known as Baba Ram Dass, is a contemporary spiritual teacher who wrote the 1971 bestseller Be Here Now. He is well-known for his association with Timothy Leary at Harvard University in the early 1960s, both having been dismissed from their professorships for experiments on the effects of psychedelic drugs on human subjects.

Maybe the water supply is tainted with psychedelic drugs from the trippy, hippie Dharma days. The Monster, the whispers, the ghosts....all just a far out acid trip!

Er...well except for the fact that they encountered the monster on Day 1, while they were still drinking bottled water from the plane. And the people from the freighter were attacked by it and I'm pretty sure they hadn't had any water from there.

I'm not sure about drugged, but I love the idea of the constant drinking and eating being tied to Alice in Wonderland references! Great catch.


Thanks, I'm a literary geek and love all the references they make. It certainly seems possible the two different parts of the show are connected.

Water bottles lead to people acting differently?
Hmmm.... so do the mirrors...

Didn't Jack and Desmond share water fro a bottle of some type at the stadium? It caught my attention at the time, probably because of the deeply embedded childhood warning "never accept candy fro a stranger."

Maybe the water has life extension properties...fountain of youth kind of thing...but then so would the fruit. I haven't noticed the water bottles being focused on but good observation.

The Apollo bars were definitely a testing ground for Dr. Hacker in TLE... he was supposed to be putting psychotropic drugs in the candy though we don't have confirmation that he did... he went on to work for Sprite. Though his drugs could have been used to prevent hallucinations - anti-psychotics are also psychotropic (mind-altering) drugs.

Kate does see her horse after sharing an Apollo bar with Sawyer.

I thought of Ben and Hurley sharing that Apollo bar.... hahaha.

Everybody drinks water...they have to. I'd be begging the magic box for a coke, lemonade, iced-tea? I'd probably start a juice bar.

I like you theory Stager00... I can't remember if it was the very first episode... but all the water bottles were stolen. After this is when Christian popped up and showed Jack the water supply in the cave. It was Boone that stole all the water bottles. I believe it was right after the plane crash Boone offered Shannon a chocolate bar...

I have no idea what this means, I do not believe Boone is bad... or at least I hope not!!

It is also interesting that Christian showed Jack to his almost death and Locke saved him BEFORE he showed Jack to the caves where Jack found water and Adam and Eve (later).

What if Christian was really trying to show Jack Adam and Eve?

According to the Blast Door Map, there are heavy water (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heavy_water) deposits on the island.

Heavy water is the only known chemical substance which affects the period of circadian oscillations, consistently increasing them. The effect is seen in unicellular organisms, green plants, isopods, insects, birds, mice, and hamsters. The mechanism is unknown.

Deuterium, which makes heavy water "heavy" is used as evidence of the Big Bang theory of the universe.

the existence of deuterium is one of the arguments in favor of the Big Bang theory over the steady state theory of the universe. It is estimated that the abundances of deuterium have not evolved significantly since their production more than 14 billion years ago.

Deuterium exhibits a characteristic called "isospin" that relates to the orientation and relationship of its components.

Chen Ning Yang (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chen_Ning_Yang) was aware that in the (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chen_Ning_Yang)general theory of relativity (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_theory_of_relativity) the notion of absolute direction was not universally well defined. If a gyroscope is spinning very fast so that its y-axis is always pointing in a certain direction, and then it is slowly moved around a large loop in space, it comes back in a different orientation when in returns to its starting position. This is a fundamental property of space-time, the curvature, and it determines the form of the gravitational interaction.
In 1954, Yang and Mills suggested that the notion of protons and neutrons, which are continuously rotated into each other by isospin, also changes under transport around closed loops. The idea was that a proton moving along a closed loop would come back as a quantum superposition of a proton and a neutron. To describe this, a notion of proton and neutron direction in isospin space must be defined at every point, a local basis for isospin.

Is it possible that the Deuterium on the island is evidence of closed loops of spacetime? Or, the orientation of the Deuterium could be used to map a "start" position, versus an "end" position for someone or something that had experienced a closed loop of spacetime?

HV, I have been talking to AddHawk about the Heavy Water... If I still have the message I will forward it to you...

I originally looked at the heavy water, trying to see if their could be a link to the Particle Accelerator theory... I have yet to find any link..

From what I have read, Heavy water in high levels will kill a person. But I have not found anything about diluted heavy water killing humans... But I do like the idea of the Heavy water possibly increasing our Losties Circadian Rhythm... I cannot believe I did not even read this in wikipedia.... Thanks HV!!

I agree that the water could be "naturally" healthy, i.e. high in something that is extending lifes and curing cancer (Rose). Although as we have now seen some people have/do get ill (e.g. ben, jack).

Could the water have a negative effect on pregnant women? Did the others drink bottled dharma water or water from the island when living in their little village when pregnant women were dieing?

But really I think the focus on the water is just because they are on a tropical island and they tend to be drinking when they are resting or pausing (it gives them something to do rather than just sitting still and talking) - if the show was set in a city say, then we would see them having a beer or a cup of coffee.

Also there is far too much strange happenings off island that the island's water could not explain,

Drugged Dharma water? A number of folks have suggested it before, might be something to it. The Apollo bars are mighty suspicious too ...


"Have long thought this-especially since there was a sudden shift in the water bottles from the use of Oceanic bottles immediately following the plane crash to Dharma bottles following the Swan hatch food drop. Why include water bottles in a food drop to a place that had it's own hot and cold running water supply and especially to a place where no one was supposed to leave-except apparently in a contamination suit-which makes no sense if you have to pull the hood off to take a drink. What I find very interesting is that Juliet hands a Dharma water bottle to both Desmond and Sayid right before they board the helicopter to the freighter after which they just coincidently embark on their little "time/mind" bending journey. There definitely is something in that water-and it isn't fluoride"

thanks for bringing up this point stager00! i have noticed this for awhile but could not really come to a conclusion and have not mentioned it to any of my friends who watch.

i do think there is something to the water bottles and the apollo bars as well, but not the other food items in the drop. they are just not focused on as much which makes it more of an Alice in Wonderland thing "eat me" and "drink me".

when the food drop first appeared i was scared it would harm them in some way immediately, but then after so many days have gone by, i thought it might be more long term problems that will arise and therefore not associated with the food and water.

also of note, they serve iced tea in new otherton. which i believe is the only other beverage served so far on the island.:coolorng:

when the food drop first appeared i was scared it would harm them in some way immediately, but then after so many days have gone by, i thought it might be more long term problems that will arise and therefore not associated with the food and water.


"that was my thought too-a bunch of food suddenly appears out of nowhere-in strange packaging to boot? Had I been a Lostie I wouldn't have dug into it so quickly-I'd have sat back and waited a while to see if anyone eating it keeled over dead or went bonkers first"



also of note, they serve iced tea in new otherton. which i believe is the only other beverage served so far on the island.:coolorng:

"No it isn't-booze and wine have also been served."

If something doesn't kill you, it might have other effects like causing hallucinations or otherwise affecting body chemistry...I definitely think water is one of the things we should keep an eye on.

Water bottles and chocolate bars are both reminiscent of the military. The water especially during the gulf war.

I think shoes have bigger part than water bottles.

Shoe is also used for moving a human.

Well, we have more water bottles now...with different logos and labels.

Digging through dead bodies takes it out of you.

Digging through dead bodies takes it out of you.

Takes what out of you? :)

I've always thought there was something odd about all the water drinking, too. Yes it's a hot, tropical environment but it seems to me the water bottles and the mention of getting water for one reason or another is a bit over done. And then there's the rain at the oddest times. Out of no where, pouring, drenching rain. I've been to Hawaii many times and while it does rain more days than not there is still a warning, i.e. dark clouds on the horizon, storm coming, etc.

I don't know if it's heavy water or drug laced, but I'm not sure it's from a pure mountain spring either. :undecide:

Takes what out of you? :)

Water.

Faith.

I think the water from and around the Island and it's previous exit/entrance portals is what literally brings the Losties "back to life" on the Island..."the water of life." Think of Jin in the sea who should be dead.... and Charlotte Malkin who drowned and revived... but not before she went to the "place between" where she seems to have seen Locke and Yemi.

The river that feeds the ocean that feeds the river...

Well Christian led him to the caves so that the survivors didn't die of dehydratation

I think the water from and around the Island and it's previous exit/entrance portals is what literally brings the Losties "back to life" on the Island..."the water of life." Think of Jin in the sea who should be dead.... and Charlotte Malkin who drowned and revived... but not before she went to the "place between" where she seems to have seen Locke and Yemi.

Nice thoughts. I've often wondered if they were brought back to life, too. But I was thinking when they crashed that maybe they jumped back in time just enough to put them right before their deaths from the crash. But I like the idea of the water having something to do with it.

The fox in The Little Prince tells the prince a "very simple secret":

"It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."

Of course the book is alluding to the mysteries of life that may or may not be solved, but considering this is LOST the "invisible" could very well be something in the water. How simple. And the writers have said that a description of LOST could be written on an index card.

There were a number of older threads about the water bottles.
Remember when Desmond and Jack were running in the arena up and down the stairs. Desmond and Jack both had bottles and it appeared that they switched them at some point. There was all sorts of speculation that it was done intentionally and that there was something besides water in there.

Did we all forget Claire? Season one her yet unborn baby has not kicked or moved since she woke up on the island. Gin gives her some Sushi, she eats it it WAM!! the baby kicks!

Did we all forget Claire? Season one her yet unborn baby has not kicked or moved since she woke up on the island. Gin gives her some Sushi, she eats it it WAM!! the baby kicks!

Jin offered his fish to Hurley, too, who also has a big belly, but Hurley refused.

"Water" hints this episode: The stream seems to be in several scenes, Jin drinks from the large plant leaf before finding Danielle again on the beach, the well. Any others?

If nothing else, I think the water may be contaminated with radiation, which may contribute to the time skipping and nosebleeds.

"Water" hints this episode: The stream seems to be in several scenes, Jin drinks from the large plant leaf before finding Danielle again on the beach, the well. Any others?

If nothing else, I think the water may be contaminated with radiation, which may contribute to the time skipping and nosebleeds.

Good catch, we know that radiation exposure affects how people react to time travel...that also might explain why people who have had longer exposure to the island are reacting worse to the time skipping, since they have drank more "island water."

It also fits in a little with the underworld theme, since if you eat or drink in the underworld, you are bound to it. Also, remember with Narnia-- "Once a king or queen in Narnia, always a King or Queen."

Er...well except for the fact that they encountered the monster on Day 1, while they were still drinking bottled water from the plane. And the people from the freighter were attacked by it and I'm pretty sure they hadn't had any water from there.

Er.........Being the 815 flight was so by the book, no way that water could have been doctored

Er.........Being the 815 flight was so by the book, no way that water could have been doctored

I'm sure this is just a coincidence, but in Wrath of Khan "by the book" is a codeword between Kirk and Spock that they are engaged in a deception. So, in this case Coupons, are you suggesting that the water actually was "doctored"? As "the Doctor" is a code for Doctor Who and hence time-travel, perhaps there's something in the Water that facilitates time-travel?

twinbad has a thread on the well and the possibility of a fountain of youth for Alpert here:
Well = Water, Water = Fountain of Youth? (http://forum.thefuselage.com/showthread.php?t=107716)

Some of my research in this post (http://forum.thefuselage.com/showpost.php?p=2093363&postcount=7) on twinbad's thread has relevance, I think, to some of the items we have been talking about in this thread regarding the water drinking on the island.

I particularly want to highlight these quotes from this sacred waters and holy wells site I found (http://www.chalicecentre.net/holywells.htm):

"A great many wells were supposed to cure eye problems, which scholars have traced to the magical perception of the well as the eye of a god. And the sympathetic link between water and fertility led, as one might expect, to a number of wells gaining a reputation for curing childlessness. In Oxford, for example, Child's Well "had vertue to make women that were barren to bring forth children,"

"Recent research has, moreover, verified this strange connection between wells and dreams: Earth Mysteries researcher Paul Devereux, in Earthmind, recounts incidences where people have become unaccountably drowsy and fallen asleep at the site of a holy well, a phenomenon he correlates with the mildly radioactive properties found at many of the well sites." (!!!!!)

"In addition, the faeries took the maid to Elfland, which highlights another important feature of the holy wells: that along with other sacred features of the landscape such as certain megaliths, caves, trees and lakes, they stand as entrances to the world of spirit - the Otherworld."

"Many Christian churches were constructed near pagan sacred wells, and the early Celtic church used them for baptism until the Roman church replaced them with the font inside the building. A number of old churches contain a crypt or grotto that opens into a subterranean spring. This place - close to earth and water - is the innermost sanctum, the hidden holy center of the sacred enclosure." (all bold mine)

I'm not sure what is my favorite part, but I do admit to partiality for the parts about curing barren mothers and "the mildly radioactive properties found" at many of the sacred well sites.

Great post Devera!

"Water" hints this episode: The stream seems to be in several scenes, Jin drinks from the large plant leaf before finding Danielle again on the beach, the well. Any others?

If nothing else, I think the water may be contaminated with radiation, which may contribute to the time skipping and nosebleeds.

I do like that idea, somehow the elements in the water help to pinpoint the human composition/body for travel...a change in chiral properties? And of course...HV's insight in his post here.

More water issues: remember when Sawyer was accidentally poisoned by drinking water intended for Michael? Walt didn't want Michael to leave the island and somehow got help from Kate to poison him enough to make him sick/unable to travel? Or was it Sun who was trying to make Jin sick so he wouldn't leave? Kate helped. Yep, I think that was it.

Er.........Being the 815 flight was so by the book, no way that water could have been doctored

Hmmm . . . maybe it was "doctored" . . . :)

I really enjoyed your posts, Devera! Thanks for doing all that research.

I watched White Rabbit again this morning, which is all about water. I didn't think much of it at the time but was struck by Locke's words to Sayid and Kate:

KATE: Let's go into the jungle, try to find some fresh water.
SAYID: You're not going alone.
LOCKE: When the others find out the water's gone it's going to get ugly. And when they find out that someone pinched it, it's going to get uglier. I'll go. Camp needs you two here, especially with the doctor gone. And besides, I know where to look.

Now why does Locke know where to look for water? :rolleyes:

Later in the epi Locke knows just where to find Jack, who's slipped over a cliff. After helping him climb back up, Locke is later shown getting water off a large leaf like Jin drank from in TPID.

And there are those times when he knows it's going to rain. The guy is keepin' secrets, I tell ya! :biggrin:

Hmmm . . . maybe it was "doctored" . . . :)

I really enjoyed your posts, Devera! Thanks for doing all that research.

My pleasure.



I watched White Rabbit again this morning, which is all about water. I didn't think much of it at the time but was struck by Locke's words to Sayid and Kate:

KATE: Let's go into the jungle, try to find some fresh water.
SAYID: You're not going alone.
LOCKE: When the others find out the water's gone it's going to get ugly. And when they find out that someone pinched it, it's going to get uglier. I'll go. Camp needs you two here, especially with the doctor gone. And besides, I know where to look.

Now why does Locke know where to look for water? :rolleyes:

Later in the epi Locke knows just where to find Jack, who's slipped over a cliff. After helping him climb back up, Locke is later shown getting water off a large leaf like Jin drank from in TPID.

And there are those times when he knows it's going to rain. The guy is keepin' secrets, I tell ya! :biggrin:

Interesting...nice connection between Locke and water.:)

Also notice the fact that Locke says "the doctor", another clue to the water being "doctored"?

I also wanted to point out that in one of the recent episodes, an item that the camera zoomed in on was an Ajira Airlines water bottle. First Oceanic, the Dharma, now Ajira water? Before reading this thread, i never even gave water a thought, but now... things do seem a little strange

Another water bottle in Whatever Happened, Happened.

http://homepage.mac.com/zoff/WHH/The_Bottle.html

Another water bottle in Whatever Happened, Happened.

http://homepage.mac.com/zoff/WHH/The_Bottle.html

Thanks for bringing it over, zoff.

I think the water from and around the Island and it's previous exit/entrance portals is what literally brings the Losties "back to life" on the Island..."the water of life." Think of Jin in the sea who should be dead.... and Charlotte Malkin who drowned and revived... but not before she went to the "place between" where she seems to have seen Locke and Yemi.


So, do you think this is what will happen to Ben in the temple. RA will give him a drink of water? But, why didn't Juliet do that?

Another water bottle in Whatever Happened, Happened.

http://homepage.mac.com/zoff/WHH/The_Bottle.html

That's an anachronism. We didn't have bottled water like that in the 70's. Not in plastic or glass. The only bottled water from that era was the giant water cooler kind. Folks would have thought you were nuts if you had told them that, in the future, people would pay for and carry serving-size bottles (plastic or glass) of water.

Heck, we didn't have plastic bottles of any kind. Soft drinks came in cans and glass bottles, milk came in cartons and glass bottles.

So Dharma was ahead of the mainland when it came to bottling water.

That's an anachronism. We didn't have bottled water like that in the 70's. Not in plastic or glass. The only bottled water from that era was the giant water cooler kind. Folks would have thought you were nuts if you had told them that, in the future, people would pay for and carry serving-size bottles (plastic or glass) of water.

Heck, we didn't have plastic bottles of any kind. Soft drinks came in cans and glass bottles, milk came in cartons and glass bottles.

So Dharma was ahead of the mainland when it came to bottling water.

It doesn't look like a Dharma bottle ;)

It doesn't look like a Dharma bottle ;)

Right, not Dharma, and the more I look at it, the less it looks like a bottle.
~ I'm just going to quit looking at it. :biggrin:

Right, not Dharma, and the more I look at it, the less it looks like a bottle.
~ I'm just going to quit looking at it. :biggrin:

If you look at the video you'll see it's definitely a water bottle.
I think it's the camera man's water bottle, its probably quite hot shooting from inside a van in Hawaii.

That's an anachronism. We didn't have bottled water like that in the 70's. ...

So Dharma was ahead of the mainland when it came to bottling water.

It does seem strange that Sawyer has a water bottle in the 1970's Dharma. I suppose Sawyer could have found it on a trail or at the beach?