In the first flashback where we saw Faraday, he was watching the TV about the 815 plane on the floor, and he was saying something to the effect that it wasn't true. He looked rather frail and/or mentally feeble. Do people think that was before he went to the Island, and that's what made him decide to go? Or was it one of the weird time things, and he had come back from the Island and time back here was before they had 'discovered' 815? On the Island, he did tell Jack & company that the world had found the wreckage.

It was before he went to the island. What I have yet to find a good answer for, is why he needed a caretaker and seems rather out of it.

It was before he went to the island. What I have yet to find a good answer for, is why he needed a caretaker and seems rather out of it.

I think that some of the experiments may have fried his brain a bit. One of the things the military had experimented with was using pulses of high rate electromagnetic energy induce adverse psychological effects in the enemy. Shock treatments are nothing but controlled bursts of electromagnetic energy and is used to induce changes in behavior. When desmond went to see him at the university Faraday was more concerned with shielding what was below his neck then what was above it

In the first flashback where we saw Faraday, he was watching the TV about the 815 plane on the floor, and he was saying something to the effect that it wasn't true. He looked rather frail and/or mentally feeble. Do people think that was before he went to the Island, and that's what made him decide to go? Or was it one of the weird time things, and he had come back from the Island and time back here was before they had 'discovered' 815? On the Island, he did tell Jack & company that the world had found the wreckage.
That scene was when they found the "wreckage of flight 815" in Dec.2004.....prior to going to the Island on the Freighter.
I think he had some unconscious memories or awareness that something was very wrong when he saw that they found the wreckage and there were supposedly no survivors.

I believe that with all of Daniel's exposure to radiation throughout the years, both in his experiments at home and his time on the island, there is reason to believe that his consciousness may have done a little bit of skipping around time and space every once in a while. Even if it only happened once, (like for instance when the island moved??), maybe his mind floated just long enough from some point in the future when everything's gone to hell on the island, back to some time before he ever knew about 815, to give him the most fleeting sense sadness when he saw that news footage of Flight 815. I can imagine it being like an intense feeling of deja vu, completely unexplainable and unexpected to the subject, and purely emotional, even enough to bring tears to his eyes.

There's also the clue Miles gives to Charlotte about getting "back here." She looks puzzled but Miles doesn't seem to buy that she doesn't understand.

What we need is to get Sayid back to the island to torture Miles into telling us what the hell is going on. lol

What we need is to get Sayid back to the island to torture Miles into telling us what the hell is going on. lol

Miles is a big weenie. I'm sure all Sayid would have to do is give him one badass glare right in the eyes, and Miles would spill the beans on EVERYTHING he knows.

Daniel is the new Desmond

i thought that Daniel moved with the island and what likely happened when Daniel got caught at the edge of the wormhole was that he became 'unstuck in time' just like desmond.

In evidence for this, i think that Daniel's tears as he watched the 815 fake wreckage footage in 'confirmed dead' was a direct reference to Billy Pilgrim from 'Slaughterhouse 5'

Every so often, for no apparent reason, Billy Pilgrim would find himself weeping

I've been thinking about this alot lately and was going to thread it up, but since this one already started I'll just compose it over here then. To wit:

I'm beginning to think the flashback with Daniel was in reality a flashforward with Daniel, and this is why: Daniel goes to Island. Charlotte gives Daniel memory test, and Daniel's memory is running about 67% (2 out of 3 cards) after 30 minutes, meaning it could degrade even more as time passes, say in an hour he can only remember one card. You know, like the dude in Memento with the memory problem-"If this conversation goes for too long I'll forget what we were talking about and we'll have to start over again".

Also, his constant referencing of his notebook also indicates that he will need these notes because he just ain't gonna be able to remember much for very long, even though he probably could if he wasn't memory challenged. He is after all a pretty bright guy, physicist at Oxford and all that, pip pip...

Also, remember his trepidation at deactivating The Tempest. He wasn't sure he was capable of doing it, not because he isn't used to complex procedures, research, protocols etc., but that he is incapable of remembering and lacks the concentration and focus to do and deal with complicated procedures and happenings. But, he's persevered, even though things that should be simple for his physicist mind are now more complicated than ever for him.

It also explains his slow and measured, lilting kind of answers to things. If he's telling the truth, like "We have to get off of this island now", the delivery is faster and his actions are more deliberate and faster. Because it's simple: Get off island. But if he has to lie, or be deceptive, he tends to slow down with his delivery because he has to think more and seems to be more reticent with his delivery. More halting...And why the reason for all these things that have come to pass for Daniel...?

Because by exposing himself to radiation without any headgear for who knows how long, Daniel has automatically suffered "side effects" (memory) just by coming to the island, and Charlotte is helping him determine how bad the effect is. And then there was the note in Daniel's "memory bank-his notebook", that if anything goes wrong Desmond Hume is your constant. Ok, now we may have a problem since Desmond is no longer there for Daniel. How might this play out...?

Well, it's possible when the island moved, Daniel already being very sensitive to the effects could have taken a Desmond like trip back to before he came to the island, with his memory blasted even worse now, requiring a caretaker to care for a man who is staring at a TV and crying and can't even remember why. I mean, like Des, Daniel is literally back there, and we know that the universe likes to course correct little nuggets like that.

Or, Daniel's consciousness could have gone back to a time before the island, leading to the same state of crying with no memory (and no constant). But this would lead to Time Ebola right? Maybe, but I'm thinking if it was an effect brought on by the island moving, then the effect might be differing, like with island Des going back to 1996 when he turned the key. That was different since future Des went back with future memory intact, no Time Ebola, so Daniel coulda flashed back too with present memory intact, only his memory was so screwed there is nothing there. I'm just saying that with Daniel and the radiation and the island move, and Des with the EMP blast, these two guys are easily going to suffer side effects the most.

Or, Daniel could've gone with the island and either physically or mentally left the island to get back to a time before he went, but with his memory fried in the process. Maybe it was an escape or the only way off or whatever, but it seems to have fried him good and this only works with the above scenarios.

So, in other words, I think they conned us with the Daniel the feeb with caretaker scene by playing it as a flashback when it's really a flashforward for Daniel. Because, and this is the big question, how did you even get Daniel the feeb who needs a caretaker ready for a mission into unstable territory in that timespan when the man couldn't even care for himself when they found the fake wreck. I'm not saying this theory is right, and it was impossible to get him on the mission, I'm saying it doesn't feel right, to me at least, the order in which I've seen things. For whatever reason it seems to me that Daniel's story to this point ends up with him in the chair crying with no memory why, not starting out from the chair crying with no memory why...anybody else get this vibe from it, because it's cool if not, I know it's wild but it's just the vibe I'm getting off of it for the moment from what I've observed of his behavior...:jawa6:

Daniel is the new Desmond

i thought that Daniel moved with the island and what likely happened when Daniel got caught at the edge of the wormhole was that he became 'unstuck in time' just like desmond.

In evidence for this, i think that Daniel's tears as he watched the 815 fake wreckage footage in 'confirmed dead' was a direct reference to Billy Pilgrim from 'Slaughterhouse 5'

Ditto
100%
I've been thinking about this alot lately and was going to thread it up, but since this one already started I'll just compose it over here then. To wit:

I'm beginning to think the flashback with Daniel was in reality a flashforward with Daniel, and this is why: Daniel goes to Island. Charlotte gives Daniel memory test, and Daniel's memory is running about 67% (2 out of 3 cards) after 30 minutes, meaning it could degrade even more as time passes, say in an hour he can only remember one card. You know, like the dude in Memento with the memory problem-"If this conversation goes for too long I'll forget what we were talking about and we'll have to start over again".

Also, his constant referencing of his notebook also indicates that he will need these notes because he just ain't gonna be able to remember much for very long, even though he probably could if he wasn't memory challenged. He is after all a pretty bright guy, physicist at Oxford and all that, pip pip...

Also, remember his trepidation at deactivating The Tempest. He wasn't sure he was capable of doing it, not because he isn't used to complex procedures, research, protocols etc., but that he is incapable of remembering and lacks the concentration and focus to do and deal with complicated procedures and happenings. But, he's persevered, even though things that should be simple for his physicist mind are now more complicated than ever for him.

It also explains his slow and measured, lilting kind of answers to things. If he's telling the truth, like "We have to get off of this island now", the delivery is faster and his actions are more deliberate and faster. Because it's simple: Get off island. But if he has to lie, or be deceptive, he tends to slow down with his delivery because he has to think more and seems to be more reticent with his delivery. More halting...And why the reason for all these things that have come to pass for Daniel...?

Because by exposing himself to radiation without any headgear for who knows how long, Daniel has automatically suffered "side effects" (memory) just by coming to the island, and Charlotte is helping him determine how bad the effect is. And then there was the note in Daniel's "memory bank-his notebook", that if anything goes wrong Desmond Hume is your constant. Ok, now we may have a problem since Desmond is no longer there for Daniel. How might this play out...?

Well, it's possible when the island moved, Daniel already being very sensitive to the effects could have taken a Desmond like trip back to before he came to the island, with his memory blasted even worse now, requiring a caretaker to care for a man who is staring at a TV and crying and can't even remember why. I mean, like Des, Daniel is literally back there, and we know that the universe likes to course correct little nuggets like that.

Or, Daniel's consciousness could have gone back to a time before the island, leading to the same state of crying with no memory (and no constant). But this would lead to Time Ebola right? Maybe, but I'm thinking if it was an effect brought on by the island moving, then the effect might be differing, like with island Des going back to 1996 when he turned the key. That was different since future Des went back with future memory intact, no Time Ebola, so Daniel coulda flashed back too with present memory intact, only his memory was so screwed there is nothing there. I'm just saying that with Daniel and the radiation and the island move, and Des with the EMP blast, these two guys are easily going to suffer side effects the most.

Or, Daniel could've gone with the island and either physically or mentally left the island to get back to a time before he went, but with his memory fried in the process. Maybe it was an escape or the only way off or whatever, but it seems to have fried him good and this only works with the above scenarios.

So, in other words, I think they conned us with the Daniel the feeb with caretaker scene by playing it as a flashback when it's really a flashforward for Daniel. Because, and this is the big question, how did you even get Daniel the feeb who needs a caretaker ready for a mission into unstable territory in that timespan when the man couldn't even care for himself when they found the fake wreck. I'm not saying this theory is right, and it was impossible to get him on the mission, I'm saying it doesn't feel right, to me at least, the order in which I've seen things. For whatever reason it seems to me that Daniel's story to this point ends up with him in the chair crying with no memory why, not starting out from the chair crying with no memory why...anybody else get this vibe from it, because it's cool if not, I know it's wild but it's just the vibe I'm getting off of it for the moment from what I've observed of his behavior...:jawa6:
I had the same theory somewhere... basically... and I thought Daniel is watching the plane crash knowing the 815ers are really dead at the time... so they either did die in the crash (some time traveling involved) or they might as well have.

Im of the opinion that it is more simplistic than all that.

Daniel would remember meeting desmond many years ago seeing the plane crash on the news brings it back to him. consider if you will for a moment this sequence of events from Daniels point of view.

1. Daniel works at university on time travel / displacement, he is clearly ridiculed for this given he initially thinks desmond comes to him as a prank.

2. Desmond arrives & convinces him that he is from the future, he surely mentions some of the facts, such as a plane crash & that daniel and him have spoken or met in the future.

3. Desmonds nose bleeds stop & is dissapears from Daniels life.

4. Daniels brain frazzled by the magic-rat-heat-lamp starts to degenerate & coupled with the ridicule from his peers he starts to question himself & if indeed the desmond incident was real.

5. Driven half mad by memory loss & confusion he loses his job & is left a quivering wreck with a home carer watching TV all day until one day...

6. He sees the oceanic crash on TV, realises it was all real & he was right all along, in an emotional flood of vindication he bursts into tears, not knowing ("why are you crying?", "i dont know") himself weither he is happy that he is proved right or sad that he has wasted these years on self doubt.

But Desmond wasn't part of the plane crash. I like the idea that Daniel's FB was really an FF, but the news of the plane being in the ocean/no survivors came BEFORE he went to the island on the freighter. It's highly likely, though, that he'd been there more than once, time tripping. I also believe the frequent time trips and exposure to radiation is what caused him to lose it, need a caretaker, and cry for a reason he doesn't know...the question is, how did he become 'well' enough to go on the Freighter mission three or so months later? Abbadon, I guess, formed the team. Why choose someone obviously mentally unstable?

Im of the opinion that it is more simplistic than all that.

Daniel would remember meeting desmond many years ago seeing the plane crash on the news brings it back to him. consider if you will for a moment this sequence of events from Daniels point of view.

1. Daniel works at university on time travel / displacement, he is clearly ridiculed for this given he initially thinks desmond comes to him as a prank.

2. Desmond arrives & convinces him that he is from the future, he surely mentions some of the facts, such as a plane crash & that daniel and him have spoken or met in the future.

3. Desmonds nose bleeds stop & is dissapears from Daniels life.

4. Daniels brain frazzled by the magic-rat-heat-lamp starts to degenerate & coupled with the ridicule from his peers he starts to question himself & if indeed the desmond incident was real.

5. Driven half mad by memory loss & confusion he loses his job & is left a quivering wreck with a home carer watching TV all day until one day...

6. He sees the oceanic crash on TV, realises it was all real & he was right all along, in an emotional flood of vindication he bursts into tears, not knowing ("why are you crying?", "i dont know") himself weither he is happy that he is proved right or sad that he has wasted these years on self doubt.

There's only one problem with your surmising...The radiation Daniel is exposed to in itself does nothing, it needs a catalyst, and that catalyst is the barrier/island or the emp effects of the barrier/island. This is why he is checking his memory when he gets to the island, because even though they followed the bearing and Charlotte, Frank, and Miles are Ok, with all the radiation he has absorbed in his life, Daniel is still affected by the emp the island and barrier emit, no matter how precise his course. Like I said before-Des and Daniel-very easily affected by the emp of the barrier/island and the effects appear pretty quickly in both of them...Plus, maybe I'm getting you wrong, but it seems that you aren't taking into account that Daniel was actually on the island. He didn't just sit home watching Tv, he went on a high-risk mission to an unstable environment and in my humble opinion really came back all screwed up...
:jawa6:
100%
But Desmond wasn't part of the plane crash. I like the idea that Daniel's FB was really an FF, but the news of the plane being in the ocean/no survivors came BEFORE he went to the island on the freighter. It's highly likely, though, that he'd been there more than once, time tripping. I also believe the frequent time trips and exposure to radiation is what caused him to lose it, need a caretaker, and cry for a reason he doesn't know...the question is, how did he become 'well' enough to go on the Freighter mission three or so months later? Abbadon, I guess, formed the team. Why choose someone obviously mentally unstable?
Well, it works if he went back to that time before the crash, because now he may not be capapble of going on the trip, which would in effect eliminate one of Widmore's key components of his team on the trip, no? The point being, for whatever reason he ended up being feeb Dan before the mission, I get the feeling that this is how Daniel ended up, not started out. With people being eliminated and trying to remove people from play (Locke & Michael hit by the same car, Christian apparition tries to run Jack off the cliff), maybe this is one way that Daniel get's removed from Widmore's side of the equation.

But however it happened, I still can't shake the feeling that we've been putting the horse in front of the cart with this, and we are seeing a Daniel who has already been to the island and for whatever reason he ended up back in the world before he went. Dan#15 anyone? I'm sorry I can't explain it better, but just like we both mentioned, how did they get a non-functional broken-down shell-of-a-man mission ready to the capability he was in that amount of time? I don't see it. That's why I see the card test as an immediate diagnostic tool for Daniel breaching the island barrier then,not as a test of how much he has recovered from the feeb that he was. And I think Charlotte told him he would get better-is that due to the healing effects of the island?
Trust me, I know this could be wrong, that's why it's an hypothesis and not a theory, but I can't shake the feeling that somehow this is the proper order of the things that went down. And one more thing I just thought about-could the real reason Naomi had the picture of Des and was looking to locate him was actually for Dan's benefit since he would then have his constant in place?
:sw_ (16): <------Ben on the way to The Sahara...Party on dude, party on...

remember that Daniel makes a note about Desmond being his constant (classic foreshadowing). So maybe when the Island disapears those in the raft are impacted and begin time jumping (skipping) like Desmond was. That could explain how the Daniel in the future ends up in the Daniel in the past and knows about the plane and all.


:ewok3: :ewok3: :ewok3:

remember that Daniel makes a note about Desmond being his constant (classic foreshadowing). So maybe when the Island disapears those in the raft are impacted and begin time jumping (skipping) like Desmond was.
That could explain how the Daniel in the future ends up in the Daniel in the past and knows about the plane and all.
:ewok3: :ewok3: :ewok3:
Or maybe he has imprints of the events of the island, much like kiddie Locke did, hence he's crying over the imprints of events he has, but he doesn't have the whole picture clearly so he's crying but he's not exactly sure why...?

if anything goes wrong Desmond Hume is your constant. Ok, now we may have a problem since Desmond is no longer there for Daniel. How might this play out...?



Daniel met Desmond in 96. He told Des that he needed something that was both in 96 time and island time. He contacted penny.

As lame a meeting as it was between them, they did wave to each other when Daniel brought Sun Jin and the redshirts to the boat. It was an acknowledgement, enough to form an anchor point for him perhaps.

I don't know if there is a back story on Lost that isn't interesting, but I hope his gets explained or visited further first next season. I want to see what else is in that notebook and why he needed a caretaker.

So, in other words, I think they conned us with the Daniel the feeb with caretaker scene by playing it as a flashback when it's really a flashforward for Daniel.


I thought this at the time it was shown. I also for some reason, thought the flashback of Charlotte was actually a flash forward as well

Thanks, guys, this is making more sense to me now. More to chew on during the next 8 months. Oh God, 8 months............. :cry:

maybe he was crying because he hadn't had contact with his constant just yet? and was still confused?

i don't know my brain is fried


maybe i'll just start weeping in front of the tv out of nowhere too