Hey guys! The mods said that could start a HBP spoiler thread BUT


Any replies to that topic MUST NOT have a different title (which is what we also see). If any reply has edited the title, that reply will be removed.


...so says Huskie....

so have fun!

OK - I'll bite. I don't really know the rules for this, because it's actually more of a spoiler rumor or whatnot. Anyway, for casual scanners, I'll drop down a bit before what I've heard from a few places:



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I heard Dumbledore dies.

i've actually heard that too....although whether or not it occurs in THIS book or the last one....it maks sense if you think about it. I mean, he is older, and he is the only person Voldemort fears. It will make for a really intense 7th book if he is not there to help Harry out. This is not to say that i don't LIKE Dumbledore, he's awesome, i just think it could work in the 7th book's favor.... [/rant]

I've heard the same thing. I personally think that Hagrid will die in this book, and Dumbledore will die in the 7th book. But I think it would be great for the plot if Dumbledore died in this book. I guess we'll just have to wait and see....

I think that it will be DD as well. He himself has said that as long as he is around Harry will never have to really face Voldermort, his death would make the "final" showdown possible.

I think that if Dumbledore dies, it will, like you said, allow Harry to face Voldemort alone. It will be so sad if he does go though...

I'm not a fan of HP but I know for a fact that(I'm going to spoiler font this just because) Snape kills Dumbledore in this book.

I'm not a fan of HP but I know for a fact that(I'm going to spoiler font this just because) Snape kills Dumbledore in this book.



You know that for a fact?* And how do you know that for a fact?

You know that for a fact?* And how do you know that for a fact?
You know how in Canada a few copies were leaked? Well here's a scan of what I said. http://the-mathclub.net/site/harrypotter.jpg That's how I know.

Hmmm. . . . From what I've heard is that there is a bogus rumor that says what you said. Rowling herself said not to trust anything that was leaked.

However, I guess I'll check out that page tomorrow and see if it's real.

Hmmmm...... I hope thats not true!! I love Snape!!! He is a good guy....

I hope it's not true either!!! I would die if that happens. I would die if DD dies (that sounds weird...lol) but it would be worse if Snape kills him. AH!

Snape does kill Dumbledore after Draco tries to.

I really really REALLY hope this isn't true! That would be so sad. I don't want Snape to be a bad guy. And I definitely don't want Dumbledore to die. Although I do agree it would set up book 7 very well. Hmm, the writer in me wants it to happen to see how it will intensify the plot, but I do love the character...

There was a lot of hype about the
Snape kills Dumbledore rumor
being a fraud, but I did hear from people who actually read the book that it's true. :'( :'(

Does anyone who read the book or otherwise heard about it know if Ron and Hermione hook up? I can't read it until after the bar exam at the end of the month but I'm definitely not adverse to being completely spoiled beforehand :-)

Wait, hmmm, Wikipedia.org has a different story:
The Prince (Snape) is forced to flee after failing to perform his unbreakable vow (to kill Dumbledore). As Voldemort's best follower has failed, Voldemort knows that he must do this himself. One morning at Hogsmeade, Voldemort catches Dumbledore around Diagon Alley and kills him in a spectacular duel.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harry_Potter_and_the_Half-Blood_Prince
They have summaries up for some, but not all, the chapters.

^^ I assumed something like that. It probably will seem like its Snape or something. Something to throw us off.

Maybe it's just my blind adoration of Alan Rickman, but I've always felt that Snape was the true protagonist in these books - the one whose secrets are to be uncovered & enjoyed for his depth of character. But I imagine it will still be a couple more years before we get to the heart of Snape. Do you ever get the feeling that J.K. is fantastic at foreplay? I just hope that when the time comes for her to deliver, she's up to snuff.

BB,

Vilya

OK... now wikipedia.com has changed its entry:

Snape has killed Dumbledore, because Malfoy could not do so. Harry has seen this, and has to watch how he and Draco disappear...

I am really, really, really confused! And all the Harry Potter message boards have shut down for the wkend so that no one will be spoiled before they read the book. >:(

I just finished the book, and am heartbroken. All the above are true...Snape killed Dumbledore, because Draco would not. Snape is the Half Blood Prince. His father was a muggle, and his mother was a woman who had the last name of Prince.

I just finished the book and am sitting here still bawling...... I am in shock and I too am heartbroken I can't think of much more to say about it right now.......

I'm taking my daughter to buy it today. We'll probably be back in a day or two, she's a fast reader. :lol2:

Ok i've stopped crying and can now think straight(well kinda).....
Favorite Bits:
Ron saying "I love you Hermione" even if it wasn't in the context that I would hope still he said it and it made her turn pink!!! *squee*
Harry kissing Ginny, *again big SQUEEE* my shipper heart soared!!! And the way he did it was wow *sigh*.....
Tonks and Lupin :)
Buckbeak oh i'm sorry "Witherwings" coming back to Hagrid :)
Harry inheriting everything from Sirius
*There are more but I shall stop there*

Upsetting Bits:
Draco becoming a DE (not that I didn't see that one coming but.....)
Learning that Bones and Vance had been murdered :'(
Aragog's death (mainly because of how upset Hagrid was over it)
Realizing that Snape isn't good, that he truely is evil (I so wanted him to be good, I was crushed....)
Dumbledores death, I can't even put it into words how upsetting that is, and knowing that Fawkes is gone too *sob* :'(
*again there are more but I will stop here, or I will prob start crying again*

I agree that Snape is the true star. His character has depth and conflict, and I empathize with him more than any of the kids. Having said that, I finished the book, and am not convinced of Snape's evil. Dramatically speaking, the author had to take away her protagonist's support system (his two mentors dying) in order to give him a chance to be heroic. He's skated through six years of this and barely done anything of note. I am also not convinced that Albus is dead. I am CERTAIN that Snape's murder of Dumbledore was a pre-conceived plan, and that we will all be in on the joke by next school year. Having said that, I believe that Severus will be a true hero by the end of it all (possibly sacrificing himself in the process)

I just thought of something. You know how it says in the book that Voldemort
put pieces of his soul in 7 different places, but they don't know what one of these places was?

I was just reading a years-ago interview with JK Rowling and she was answering a question about whether the shape of Harry's scar was important. She answered that no, it wasn't, but
it was what was in the scar (or what the scar was-- can't remember the exact words) that was important.

I'm thinking that the
7th repository (can't remember the name) for the last piece of Voldemort's soul is in Harry's scar-- so he will need to die in book 7 in order to kill Voldemort.

What do you think?

I think its as good a theory as any, I just wonder if Rowling has the stones to kill off the main character of the books.

I just thought of something.* You know how it says in the book that Voldemort
put pieces of his soul in 7 different places, but they don't know what one of these places was?

I was just reading a years-ago interview with JK Rowling and she was answering a question about whether the shape of Harry's scar was important.* She answered that no, it wasn't, but
it was what was in the scar (or what the scar was-- can't remember the exact words) that was important.

I'm thinking that the
7th repository (can't remember the name) for the last piece of Voldemort's soul is in Harry's scar-- so he will need to die in book 7 in order to kill Voldemort.

What do you think?





Perhaps if Voldemort thinks that Harry is dead or is going to die he will leave the scar and Harry and friends can then dispose of him. Ot. perhaps Dumbledore is faking and he will reappear in the nick of time to save Harry.

I was quite upset about Harry/Ginny actually. Being a Harry/Luna shipper, I was dissapointed that she wasn't in more of the book

Bill and Fleur, excuse me "Phlegm," are quite nice together. And don't even get me started on Remus and Tonks. I knew it was coming!!!

First, let me say that I was thrilled by Remus and Tonks. Remus is my second favourite character :sorcerer:

Since my absolute favourite is Snape, I have to rationalise what happened in the book, lol.


I am CERTAIN that Snape's murder of Dumbledore was a pre-conceived plan,

Definately agree with this. Since Draco letting Dumbledore live would have resulted in 2 deaths (Draco's and Snape's) maybe Snape and Dumbledore worked something out to fake the death. I think that this storyline means that Snape will be killed off in the next book as he will have to do something truely heroic to win the respect of those close to Dumbledore.

At least that is the story that I am sticking to, lol. I refuse to belive that my favourite character is truely evil. I think the truely evil one will turn out to be someone we least suspect. Snape is way to obvious, lol.


Kitten.

I finished 10 minutes ago (8:40). Couldn't read it completely straight through today since I had to go to church and stuff. ANYWAYS. I went CRAZY when bloody Snape killed Dumbledore!!!! WOW. I jsut can't believe it. Reading how Dumbledore was pleading for Snape not to....that killed me. Ugh! I can't even look at my avie anymore. I must change it. I was freaked out when Harry kissed Ginny that first time! LOL Tonk and Lupin! AH! lol I didn't see that one coming. Poor Dumbledore. This is so horribly sad. :'( :'( :'( But yes, the book....beyond greatness. I shall start reading it again tomorrow.

What made me even sadder was at the funeral, when everyone came to see him be buired. It just made me sad to think how good Dumbledore was to the wizarding world.

But Snape...I think it had something to do with the bond that he made with Narcissa. I felt bad for Draco, because I don't think his heart is in the Dark Side.

Kitten and Maggie- I agree, the murder of Dumbledore was preconceived. I remember reading an interview between a classroom of kids and Rowling shortly after "Prisoner of Askaban" came out, and the kids were trying to find out some spoilers for the future. Actually the kids were guessing things and she gave out little tidbits. Anyway, pretty much everything she said at the time has come through already in Books 4 or 5, but one thing she said at the time, was that a Hogwarts Professor would die. At the time, I hoped it would be Snape - never trusted him and neither has Harry. But, I never thought he would actually kill Dumbledore. When he took that vow, I thought somehow he would get out of it, but he didn't. He really is as evil as we all first thought in the beginning. I was shocked to learn that Snape was the actual creator of all of the most horrible, deadly spells. Never saw that coming.

OHMIGOD

OHMIGOD

OHMIGOD

OH MI EFFING GOD

i can't speak....i don't even know how i'm typing....

::dies::

But Snape...I think it had something to do with the bond that he made with Narcissa. Draco, because



I definately think that was a part of it. If he broke the bond, he would die. In killing Dumbledore, he saved himself. But that can't be the end of it. There has to be something else there, something that we won't see until the next book comes out. I refuse to believe that my favourite character is so evil with absolutely no redeeming qualities and not secret plan to make everything work out in the end, lol. Then again, I could just be delusional, lol.

But on another note... after reading this book twice, am I the only one looking foward to this movie???


Kitten.

as you can tell from my reaction above....i am now OBSESSED with this book.....dare I say...i think it's the best one yet! I think i am going to re-read all the books from the beginning....just to see.


But on another note... after reading this book twice, am I the only one looking foward to this movie???


OMG YES!! I actually kept imagining it with the movie's sets and coming up with my own for the new places and characters and such....it will be AMAZING....all of the pensieve scenes....OMG. ::dies at the thought::

as you can see....i am in to much of a hysterical shock to analyze the book, add to the conversation, or do anything other than type and flip out....so i am going to rest now. I will be back tomorrow to discuss thoroughly! :shocking:

R.A.B.
It's Sirius's brother!

Regulus Amadeus Black!

*GASP*

OMG.....it IS....no effing way!!! I've been trying to figure that out....it makes sense....

Just finished it. And I don't know what to think. I can't believe Snape killed Dumbledore, but he also made sure that no one hurt Harry. I mean if one of the other death eaters killed Harry, would Snape really have cared if Voldemort killed them. I guess he could've been somewhat to blame, but I think he did what he had to do in order to stay alive and protect Harry also. Who says he wasn't following Dumbledore's orders also.
Just my 2 cents, if its worth that much

R.A.B.
It's Sirius's brother!

Regulus Amadeus Black!


See, this is what happens when I don't pay attentions to things... small details slip right past me and I look like an idiot, lol.

Kitten.

Good catch, Arwen! I've been racking my brain all night over those initials. Are we sure about that whole name? LV killed him not long ago, didn't he? I wonder if the locket was destroyed first or if LV has it now. Or, even better, if it's in Harry's new apartment, No. 12.

I'm really upset over the Snape Dumbledore thing. I really held out hope for Snape since DD obviously had a reason to trust him implicitly and I don't buy Harry's reason for that. DD had another reason. I'm also hoping it was a staged death but I really don't see how with everyone seeing the body and funeral. Too many people would have had to be in on it, not to mention Fawkes response to it all. Also, keep in mind that the spell on Harry was lifted the minute that DD died. Since Snape didn't know that Harry was there, he couldn't have lifted it so DD was the only one who could. DD was in no condition to do it consciously which leaves Harry's explanation making sense, unfortunately.

I agree that Snape was protecting both Draco and Harry at the end, especially Harry, although I don't know how much protection Snape can give Draco when the other DEs report that Draco didn't kill DD when he had the chance. I've wondered about that, personally.

I'm still hoping Snape is not LV's man, but the hope is fading.

Lastly, if Harry's scar is a repository, LV wouldn't know about it, I don't think. It would have been an accident, like giving Harry part of his powers, since LV's intention was to kill Harry, not just mark him. Personally, I can see the final showdown ending with both of them dead as a failsafe since the scar does link them.

By the way, does anyone know where Sirus's brother is mentioned or killed? I finished the book a little after midnight and now my husband is hording it.

Sirius's brother died a long time ago, when Voldemort was first in power.
He had become a death eater, then decided it was not for him, he was killed by them a few days after he tried to quit Voldemort's service.

There's a scene in the fifth book when Sirius talks about the family tree tapestry that explains this.
Also, in this book there's a brief mention that he was only successful in fleeing the death eaters for a few days after he tried to leave.

BTW - there's several HP websites that are very good and can provide you with fact checking:
mugglenet
the-leaky-cauldron
harrypotterlexicon

I agree that Snape is the true star. His character has depth and conflict, and I empathize with him more than any of the kids. Having said that, I finished the book, and am not convinced of Snape's evil. Dramatically speaking, the author had to take away her protagonist's support system (his two mentors dying) in order to give him a chance to be heroic. He's skated through six years of this and barely done anything of note. I am also not convinced that Albus is dead. I am CERTAIN that Snape's murder of Dumbledore was a pre-conceived plan, and that we will all be in on the joke by next school year. Having said that, I believe that Severus will be a true hero by the end of it all (possibly sacrificing himself in the process)

Very well put. I agree that the following happened:
- since Snape is under suspicion by the other DE's, he must prove his complete devotion to LV by agreeing to the Unbreakable Bond. I think we can see that LV is not entirely sure of him by the fact that Wormtail is there to watch him and he is being set up to kill Dumbledore as the final proof of whose side he is really on. It may even be possible that LV somehow influenced Narcissa and Bella to suggest the bond to Snape.
If he had refused it, it would have been read that he was not loyal to LV.

- I believe that Snape shared all of this information with Dumbledore, who knew that there probably would not be a way out to safe himself. He knew he would die at some point before the final confrontation between Harry and LV. For some reason, he may consider it more important to leave Snape in a position of being able to help/protect Harry in the events to come.

- I also think there's just too much similarity between the lineage (half blood) and unhappy childhoods of all three of them (HP, LV, and Snape) for Snape to not have an extremely important role. I thin there may actually be a link between the three of them.

BTW, did anyone else think it was odd that the story completely skated over any scenes of DADA classes with Snape? I'm sure they had to be unpleasant, so I'm somewhat surprised that Harry did not continue with DA training for his friends.

Also, thanks very much for the mods for allowing us to use this site to talk about HBP!

R.A.B.
It's Sirius's brother!

Regulus Amadeus Black!


I told my friend this last night, and she didn't believe it. As soon as I saw the R and B while reading, I thought of him.

ok....random question here. Did the very last chapter remind anyone of the end of the first Spiderman movie?

I mean Harry dumps the girl for his "journey --> Spiderman dumps the girl for the journey

harry is at a funeral --> spiderman is at a funeral

i dunno they just seemed very similar. I feel like this is now Harry realizing that HE is the hero, the "Chosen One" and it is now his duty to finish what he and Dumbledore had started. I really thought of him as a hero in this chapter, and not just "the boy who lived." It really felt like a "coming-of-age" book.

just my thoughts.

My mom has a theory that Malfoy could actually be the Chosen one. I am pretty sure that Lucius has twice defied Voldemort, so maybe that has some credence. I don't know...it was pretty interesting.

I felt really bad for Malfoy. Especially when he was crying in Myrtles bathroom. And I loved the Draco/Pansy stuff!

I just found something in OotP!

It's when everyone is cleaning Grimauld place and they come across some strange objects.

"...also a heavy locket that none of them could open..." (116)

Do you think... maybe... its a horcux?

My wife & I have just finished the book & have a theory.
Dumbledore ordered Snape to do what he did! Remember them arguing outside the castle?
Snape said he didn't want to do something, & Dumbledore demanded he go through with it.

It is WAY too easy to believe that Snape is evil ! There has to be a reason that Dumbledore trusted him.
Also - about Snape taking the unbreakable vow? What if he didn't hesitate to take it, 'cause he
had already taken another unbreakable vow to dumbledore that this one couldn't cancel out?

Anway - I think that either Dumbledore is not dead, or he ordered Snape to kill him for the greater good!


(Modification:) Dumbledore was not pleading for his life - he would never do that! He was pleading with Snape to fullfill his promice!)

I felt really bad for Malfoy. Especially when he was crying in Myrtles bathroom. And I loved the Draco/Pansy stuff!


But do you think he was really upset/crying or it was all an act because he figured that someone would see him?

My wife & I have just finished the book & have a theory.
Dumbledore ordered Snape to do what he did! Remember them arguing outside the castle?
Snape said he didn't want to do something, & Dumbledore demanded he go through with it.

It is WAY too easy to believe that Snape is evil ! There has to be a reason that Dumbledore trusted him.
Also - about Snape taking the unbreakable vow? What if he didn't hesitate to take it, 'cause he
had already taken another unbreakable vow to dumbledore that this one couldn't cancel out?

Anway - I think that either Dumbledore is not dead, or he ordered Snape to kill him for the greater good!


(Modification:) Dumbledore was not pleading for his life - he would never do that! He was pleading with Snape to fullfill his promice!)


I was thinking along the same lines, and I like your theory about pleading with Snape to fulfil his promise. I agree it is too obvious that Snape is evil. JK Rowling said that no matter how well we think we know these books, we have no idea who exactly is capable of what. Harry, Ron and Hermione have always been suspicious of Snape, especially after finding out he used to be a Death Eater... it seems a little unreal that three kids would suspect him of being the bad guy, but one of the most powerful good wizards in the business couldn't recognize it.

I still think R.A.B. is Regulus, but I think his middle name is actually Aberforth, after his uncle. Sorry. :-[

I also think you guys are brilliant. The theory that Snape and Dumbledore came up with a plan to have Snape kill Dumbledore sounds very J.K. Rowling like. I agree, Snape just being evil is too easy.

I thought it was odd that there wasn't much on the DADA lessons and thought I might have read it too fast but the first lesson stands out, nonverbal spells. If Harry had mastered this, could he have saved DD while he was frozen? His mind was still free, remember. Also, while trying to kill Snape, Snape continued to instruct/taunt Harry to master this lesson which I thought was very odd. Why would Snape care as he ran for his life?

Snape definitely should have a large role in the next book. He really had no choice about killing DD while surrounded by DEs and Ferrin on top of the Vow. DD knew it too. The timing just really sucked, which makes me wonder how DD found out about that cave.

Was it me or was the funeral odd? I mean the robes bursting into flames then the white coffin appeared. For a moment, I thought DD was going to come out of the flames, like the phoenix. Makes me wonder.

Yeah. The flames made me think of a Pheonix also, and I thought that Dumbledore was going to come back. I know that he is really dead because his portrait appeared in his old office.

morning_glory - I think he was genuinely upset. I mean, I don't see why he would be acting that out. Draco is very confused, and very scared boy. I don't think he's as brave as he puts out.

what if Dumbledore BECAME a Pheonix? just a thought....

Not THAT'S a thought! Maybe, maybe.....

R.A.B!!!!! AH!!! lol I was trying to figure out who it was but couldn't. Sirius' brother.....I think so, too.


"...also a heavy locket that none of them could open..." (116)

Do you think... maybe... its a horcux?

Another good find!

The thing about DD demanding that Snape kill him is a good theory but I don't know...it just doesn't seem like it's gonna happen. I mean, DD is now in the headmaster's office as a portrait. Why would he just tell Snape he was going to "die" and not tell the Order? I really think that he is really dead. I took his pleading as genuine. Like we have talked about in the Leaky Cauldron, it's going to make for a very good storyline in book 7.


I thought it was odd that there wasn't much on the DADA lessons and thought I might have read it too fast but the first lesson stands out, nonverbal spells. If Harry had mastered this, could he have saved DD while he was frozen?

I was thinking the same but Harry didn't have his wand. Even if he didn't need his wand, he would really need A LOT of practice to do it without a wand.

My wife & I have just finished the book & have a theory.
Dumbledore ordered Snape to do what he did! Remember them arguing outside the castle?
Snape said he didn't want to do something, & Dumbledore demanded he go through with it.

It is WAY too easy to believe that Snape is evil ! There has to be a reason that Dumbledore trusted him.
Also - about Snape taking the unbreakable vow? What if he didn't hesitate to take it, 'cause he
had already taken another unbreakable vow to dumbledore that this one couldn't cancel out?

Anway - I think that either Dumbledore is not dead, or he ordered Snape to kill him for the greater good!

(Modification:) Dumbledore was not pleading for his life - he would never do that! He was pleading with Snape to fullfill his promice!)


That is almost exactly what I thought, except the part about Snape taking an Unbreakable Vow before the one with LV. Dumbledore trusted Snape implicitly...and so did others on the good side.

Well what can I say :)

I didn't expect quite what happened as I was reading the scene where Snape killed Dumbledore.
I was like "no he isn't dead". I guess I thought Dumbledore was invincible. I do however believe that yes he is dead, although I think he will still be in the next book, as to anything else in the book there have been some pretty good theories already popping up in this thread.

I am one of those who just can't quite believe that Snape is evil I am sure Dumbledore knew his time had come and he needed Harry to see that he is strong and that he must defeat Voldemort but yes his friends can help but only those truly trust worthy. He made such a deal about only telling Ron and Hermine.

Anyway I hope you all enjoyed this book as much as I did now I have to go back and start all the books again from the beginning

happy reading all :)

I agree with a lot of the stuff being discussed here (Dumbledore being in on his death and not pleading for his life but rather begging for Snape to kill him, etc etc)

Just an FYI: RAB probably stands for Regulus ALPHARD Black, not Aberforth. Aberforth is Dumbledore's brother and most likely the bartender of the Hog's Head. Alphard was the uncle to Sirius and Regulus.

Andrea

I've read the book.. and I loved it... When I finished it on sat, I was in such disbelief.... Dumbledore. WHAT. I def did not see that coming at all... But the more I thought about it, I think that it was some sort of plan between Snape and DD.. I've always thought Snape was a little shady, but to kill DD.. If DD trusts him soooo much, I don't know. I find it hard that DD would miss something like Snape going back to LV.
It's just too sad... And at the funeral when things went on fire, I thought maybe he would come back as well....

How awesome was it with Harry and Ginny. I was so excited. And all the Ron/Hermoine stress.. Tonks and Lupin! ;D

And good thinking with that locket that was at Sirius'... I just finished OotP and didn't even think of that... ;D

I think I need to re-read HBP, to pick up on anything I missed....

Anyone else think that Aberforth is going to become really important in the next book. We don't really know if he and Dumblefore were close, but I don't think he'll be very happy about his brothers death.

Hmmmmm.......I guess DD pleading for Snape to kill him would make sense. That is something to think about. I'm still not sure, though. There's good theories for both sides so I guess I'm just gonna have to think more. lol

I definetly think that Dumbledore was pleading with Snape to kill him. I also think he was doing partly to save Malfoy. And also to save Snape, who if Malfoy was killed, would die himself.

Did anyone else think it was brilliant that Luna commentated during the Quidditch match?

Yes I do! Very good commentary.* :D

Last night, I started to read again and Snape was very reluctant in promising to carry on Draco's duty if he failed. If Snape and DD didn't have something going on there, then Snape was being very selfish. If DD didn't tell Snape to kill him, Snape would rather live than have DD alive to protect Harry. That kind of bothered me but that's only if they weren't planning the whole DD death. If the "death plan" (lol) wasn't in the works at the time Narcissa and Snape made the vow, maybe Snape told DD afterwards and made the plan. It could be either way.....AH! I want book 7 NOW.

When I first read this spoiler on Friday, I thought, yes it's a hoax, but not on us, but on the death eaters. (BTW, I came up with the Regulus theory, too, and am pissed that so many people had the chance to post it before I did).* I'm starting to like the idea that Dumbldore had to force Snape into the agreement to kill him.* The reason is DD's hand.* Can anyone remember an physical injury that wasn't healed in any of the books?* Sure there have been some addled brains (Lockhart, Bode, Neville's parents), but never a cut, burn, bite, scrape, broken bone, or rash that wasn't healed.* They have all were.* So why couldn't DD or Madam Pomfrey heal DD's burnt hand?* Was DD going to die anyhow from this wound and they just timed his death to do the most good, spare Draco's life and convince the DE's of Snape's loyalty.* I still wouldn't be surprised to find out DD was still alive, though.* The picture of DD in the headmaster's office wasn't talking.* Until I see it say something, I still think it's possible it's a hoax (but the funeral sure made it seem real).* It could be involving DD's brother, the polyjuice potion, or an inferius of some kind.

Wait, can an soulless body be used as an inferius? Would polyjuice potion work on a body without a soul? No one has ever told us what happened to the body of Barty Crouch, Jr after the dementor's kiss. Could they have fed him polyjuice potion and bewitched him to be a Dumbledore stand-in. Unlike a dead body, Barty Jr's body might still have been able to perform magic, if some one was controlling him. Grasping at straws here, I don't want DD to be dead!

I agree that it did sound like Dumbledore wanted Snape to kill him. I mean it also almost seemed as if he let himself be killed. Dumbledore's supposed to be the most powerful wizard...he could have done stuff without his wand...

It's weird though...I didn't think Snape would just turn on Dumbledore like that especially when he's trusted him for so long. Do you think that it was part of Dumbledore's orders to Snape?

Very true, DD could have done something to get away without his wand.

OK, I know this markes me as a geek, but I finished the book last night & wanted to discuss, but don't know anyone else who finshed reading it yet...
Somewhat surprising ending that I want other people's take on...

Oooh me me me!!

Let's talk, but better warn in the first post that readers WILL be spoiled in here...

No, I haven't read it yet - don't spoil it for me BUT any big surprises? *Do you think JKR will wrap it all up in book 7? *Usually my sister-in-law gets the hardback and I read with she and my brother are done. *I buy the paperbacks for my daughter.

My friend thinks that Dumbledore was pleading for his life...but really...do you think he would stoop that low to plead to Snape? I don't think so....

My friend thinks that Dumbledore was pleading for his life...but really...do you think he would stoop that low to plead to Snape? I don't think so....



It's all how you choose to look at things. If you dislike Snape and think that he has always been evil with no hope of redemption then you would probably think that Dumbledore was pleading for his life.

On the other hand, if like some of us, you believe that Snape was acting on orders from the good guys to kill Dumbledore, then the pleading could be seen as Dumbledore telling Snape to put aside his personal feelings and do the job for the greater good.


Kitten.

Back to the idea of the Horcrux. Somebody mentioned that Harry's scar could be a Horcrux. My wife speculated that Voldemort was trying to create a horcrux when he killed Lily, and she deflected the spell onto Harry, who is now himself a horcrux. Thoughts?

Snape was acting on DD's request when he killed DD. Of this I am sure. It is the only reasonable explanation. Also I, Like many others who have already posted, think that it would be too obvious that Snape is on VM's side. I want to believe that his character is too multilayered for that. Also, this book seemed like it ended in the middle of the story this time. It was not wrapped up as neatly as the others have been. Book number 7 seems like it will be the second half of a really good cliffhanger where everything that folks had assumed was not as it seemed. (hmm, would have been nice if the Lost cliffhanger was this good). I finished the book at midnight last night, but went back anyway to re-read the Hagrid's description of the argument between Snape and DD because I think this is an important wording to the rest of the story- significant in that it did not give much of anything away other than that the two were in disagreement. I think that it is also important that DD insisted that Harry get Snape and not anyone else to help heal him & that DD was not willing to plead with anyone else for his life, but pleaded with Snape (I thin to kill him - like he implored Harry to keep making him drink the liquid from the cave). Anyway I hope I am right. I will like the series much more if I am.

Yes, pretty big surprises. But - I realized this topic is being discussed in the Spoiler thread. Don't go there if you have not read the book all of the way through. It is a great read. I wish I had not finished so quickly. One of the best ones - enjoy. :o

This may be kinda out in left field or something, but is it possible that Dumbledore and Snape switched? Did we ever find out why Dumbledores's arm was so badly burned? Probably - I always ask the questions to which I remember the answer moments later ...

Anyway - what if they switched? That would explain a couple of things - if it was Dumbledore (as Snape) who made the unbreakable vow, then Dumbledore would have been resigned to his fate regardless. Or, conversely, if it was Snape who had originally made the vow, then Dumbledore's killing of his would be the only way to 'release' Snape of the vow. If Snape was Dumbledore, then the mangled arm could have been hiding the mark on Snape's arm. It would also explain why the Snape as DADA teacher storyline was given such short shrift. Someone else posted that they thought it was odd that the Snape/DADA teacher story was noticably, and regrettably, absent - that would make sense if Rowling didn't want to tip her hand. I guess this theory would be pretty easily disproven, though, if Dumbledore's portrait, or ghost, made an early appearance in book 7. I don't know - maybe most of this is just the normal "I didn't want Dumbledore to die, so he must be alive" rambling, but it kind of makes sense, yeah?

Yes, it makes perfect sense and very likely. I don't think that we should rule out that theory. The thing is, if they did switch with the polyjuice potion, they would have to drink it every hour on the hour. Harry was with Dumbledore for at least 2 hours at a time or more and Harry never saw anything of that sort. Do you think that Snape could have been on the Imperius curse? I know that you can resist it but it's possible.

About DD's hand....the ring was a Horcrux. That's what made his hand all black; it was some kind of spell that did it to him.

Sorry about the Aberforth vs. Alphard mix up earlier. My mistake. That's what happens when you're up late after 11 hours of reading. It's like coming out of a fog and I got mixed up. Sorry guys. I also thought of the possibility that Snape and Dumbledore switched places and I think it's a likely story with all the polyjuice potion in Slughorn's possesion. The only flaw I see is that Dumbledore would never order anyone, even Snape, to sacrifice themselves like that. But again, it's just a theory. Sorry again... :-[

http://www.thefuselage.com/threaded/index.php?topic=20950.60

;D ;D ;D

And while you're at it, join the Leaky Cauldron! 'Tis in the Not Lost board.* :)

Aaaaaaaaah... found this thread, thanks to TheMole... :)

Finished reading today and was about as shocked as everybody that Dumbledore turned out to be the "beloved character" that got killed off.

MaggieRyan wrote:
Back to the idea of the Horcrux. Somebody mentioned that Harry's scar could be a Horcrux. My wife speculated that Voldemort was trying to create a horcrux when he killed Lily, and she deflected the spell onto Harry, who is now himself a horcrux. Thoughts?

Those were my thoughts exactly!! I can't remember, but I've come across a similar situation some time ago, in a movie perhaps, or another book... Oh, wait, wasn't it "The Seventh Seal" with Demi Moore? Where she turned out to be the seventh seal herself?

*makes note to self: Google "The Seventh Seal"*

if all these speculations about Harry's scar being a horcrux are true, then he will have to be killed off...OR somehow REMOVE his scar. ALTHOUGH....i was recently informed that the last word of the last chapter of the last book in the series is the word "scar"....so it goes "something something scar." [/hp] That could very well be something about him no LONGER having a scar....or about his tombstone being in the shape of his scar....it could go either way....

finally finished the book, and was terribly sadden, but not too shocked to find out it was dumby to die. and i am one of those who do believe he is dead dead.
i don't like how the book ended, though, i understand harry feelings though wanting to be alone in all of it, not wanting to put others in danger, but i think it's wrong. he survives through love and he cannot be afraid to love
i loved luna commentating, and i am finally starting to like her, she's growing on me!
i still hold hope for both snape and draco turning out good, i like them both too much to think they are evil.
i still don't understand the part at the end of chapter thirteen about the mouth organ :-\

does anyone know then the seventh book is due out now? :D

I think that number 6 is the best book yet, I can only hope that number 7 is even better. I have a theory, probably a half daft one but....
.....what if the reason DD was arguing with Snape is because he needed Snape's dark magic knowledge of making a Horcrux....because DD was just about to do the same as LV. He also needed Snape to be the one that killed him, as Snape would make sure it would be done properly and yet be the one to protect Harry and Draco against the death eaters (and for Draco against LV).
...and the reason DD took Harry on the quest for the Horcrux is so that he understands exactly what a Horcrux is and will search for DD and have new hope of DD being alive....DD will be as weak as LV was in book one and so Harry will still have to do battle on his own in the end!

Okay....you can all call me crazy now!!!

OK!
I've had all night at work to think about this, so here's my grand theory!

1st - I think DD froze Harry not only to protect him, but to keep him from interfering in "the plan"!

2nd - In the course of the 7th book, Harry has to find the 4 remaining horcruxes & destroy them.
* * * * *What's the easiest way for the writer to accomplish all this in one book? The 4 horcruxes
* * * * *have already been collected by Regulus, & he didn't have time to destroy them before
* * * * *the Deatheaters came after him, so he hid them in the Black house (Which Harry now
* * * * *owns!) *Or at least one of them was stolen by Mundungus Fletcher & sold, so harry will
* * * * *have to visit him in Azkaban to find out who he sold it to!

3rd - I think the final confrontation will happen at the Potters' house at Godrick hollow, since
* * * * that's where it all began!

4th - We've been told that someone would discover magic late in life. I think as soon as Harry
* * * * turns 17, Voldemort will go after him at Privett drive...He'll have already left....Voldemort
* * * * will kill Vernon, & threaten Dudley.........& Petunia will manifest her magic!

5th - Somehow, I just cant picture Harry actually murdering Voldemort! I think it's gonna be a
* * * * combination of help from the Order of the Phoenix, Dumbledore's army & Snape, plus
* * * * a fatal mistake by Voldemort that does him in, in the end!

6th - I really hope the last book gives us a clear idea of what happens to everyone in the
* * * *years to come: (Ron & Hermione marry & name their 1st child Harry.......Harry & Ginny
* * * *marry - 1st child: named Albus..........Nevil gets revenge on Bellatrix, marries Luna &
* * * *becomes herbology teacher at Hogwarts.......Hagrid & Maxima get hitched, & Grawp
* * * *becomes new keeper of keys & grounds........Draco gets killed dead by Voldemort!
* * * *(I never did like that little creep!) :laugh:

(If even half of this comes true, I'll never stop gloating!) ;D

(Modification:) Ron becomes a partner with Fred & George........ Hermione becomes a teacher at
* * * * * * * * * * * * * Hogwarts.......... Tonks teaches Bill her metamorphing power so he isn't disfigured
* * * * * * * * * * * * * anymore..........Tonks marries Lupin & fattens him up!

I just finished last night and I cried for the last 50 pages. :'( I'm interested to see how she finishes up the last year. Hard to believe it's ending.

I finshed it sat afternoon... and loved it. I couldnt put it down... only to sleep for a few hours and hit the gym...

but, Its def my favorite. Harry has grown up so much. as well as the other characters. ;D
anyway, I just love Harry Potter...cant wait for teh last book...

I have been thinking this over all day....if it was true about DD creating a Horcrux...where or what would it be....I think that it may be Fawkes! Harry thought he saw Fawkes (or 'A' pheonix) at the funeral, maybe DD left him a sign as to what to look for!

I really doubt that he would have made a horcrux. I don't think DD would kill someone (no matter how evil) in order to create a horcrux. It just doesn't seem like DD, especially considering how disgusted he seemed about the idea of it and the idea that LV wanted to make 7 of them.

Yea, I cant see DD killing someone either... unless he found another way to make one.. maybe there is a version that doesnt require killing.

But, I think Fawkes will be important in the last one. Since he belonged to DD and has helped out before.... Basically I just dont want to accept the Dumbledore is really gone. Tho Snape is still awful and I never trusted him... shady character

I thought about it last night when I was finishing the book. I wanted DD to be ok and for it all to be play acting, but I don't think it is. I think DD is gone. What is really sad about it is the way he pleaded to Snape in the end and Snape just killed him, unarmed. How horrible!

I just finished the bok. WOW it was amazing! wonderful! the end made me cry.. SNAPE URGHHHH.... I can't believe it...

I always thought Dumbledore would die.. in the last book though :( I never imagined he would die in the 6th one :(

R.A.B.
It's Sirius's brother!

Regulus Amadeus Black!

Right when I saw that , I knew it standed for that. But.. wasn't he a Death Eater!?


OK!
I've had all night at work to think about this, so here's my grand theory!

1st - I think DD froze Harry not only to protect him, but to keep him from interfering in "the plan"!

2nd - In the course of the 7th book, Harry has to find the 4 remaining horcruxes & destroy them.
What's the easiest way for the writer to accomplish all this in one book? The 4 horcruxes
have already been collected by Regulus, & he didn't have time to destroy them before
the Deatheaters came after him, so he hid them in the Black house (Which Harry now
owns!) Or at least one of them was stolen by Mundungus Fletcher & sold, so harry will
have to visit him in Azkaban to find out who he sold it to!

3rd - I think the final confrontation will happen at the Potters' house at Godrick hollow, since
that's where it all began!

4th - We've been told that someone would discover magic late in life. I think as soon as Harry
turns 17, Voldemort will go after him at Privett drive...He'll have already left....Voldemort
will kill Vernon, & threaten Dudley.........& Petunia will manifest her magic!

5th - Somehow, I just cant picture Harry actually murdering Voldemort! I think it's gonna be a
combination of help from the Order of the Phoenix, Dumbledore's army & Snape, plus
a fatal mistake by Voldemort that does him in, in the end!

6th - I really hope the last book gives us a clear idea of what happens to everyone in the
years to come: (Ron & Hermione marry & name their 1st child Harry.......Harry & Ginny
marry - 1st child: named Albus..........Nevil gets revenge on Bellatrix, marries Luna &
becomes herbology teacher at Hogwarts.......Hagrid & Maxima get hitched, & Grawp
becomes new keeper of keys & grounds........Draco gets killed dead by Voldemort!
(I never did like that little creep!) :laugh:

(If even half of this comes true, I'll never stop gloating!) ;D

(Modification:) Ron becomes a partner with Fred & George........ Hermione becomes a teacher at
Hogwarts.......... Tonks teaches Bill her metamorphing power so he isn't disfigured
anymore..........Tonks marries Lupin & fattens him up!




I seriously wouldn't be surprised if more then half of this came true. There are some great theories here, and many great ideas for the last book. Although, as Tonks says in book 5, you are born with Metamorphia or however you say it, you can't be taught.


I really doubt that he would have made a horcrux. I don't think DD would kill someone (no matter how evil) in order to create a horcrux. It just doesn't seem like DD, especially considering how disgusted he seemed about the idea of it and the idea that LV wanted to make 7 of them.


I agree with you completely. I do not think Dumbledore will have made a Horcrux... It seems too impossible. It always seemed to me that Dumbledore was not afraid of death.. or at least, he wouldn't try to make himself come back to life.

Sirius said he switched back from the death eaters.. then he was killed a few days later..

I bought flipped out when I read that Snape Killed Dumbledore *That I frieking shook the car I was riding in! *:lol2:

Ohh thats a nice twist in the books ;D Love it. *Wow. JK thinks up some awesome stuff!


I bought flipped out when I read that Snape Killed Dumbledore That I frieking shook the car I was riding in! :lol2:


:lol2: Nice. I was reading with my mouth wide open. Couldn't believe it.

Btw, you don't need to use spoiler font here ;D

I couldn't believe it when i read it either. I was on teh beach and let out this loud 'NO'.. my sister was like.. oh, guess you got the part whre someone dies...

2nd - In the course of the 7th book, Harry has to find the 4 remaining horcruxes & destroy them.
* * * * *What's the easiest way for the writer to accomplish all this in one book? The 4 horcruxes
* * * * *have already been collected by Regulus, & he didn't have time to destroy them before
* * * * *the Deatheaters came after him, so he hid them in the Black house (Which Harry now
* * * * *owns!) *Or at least one of them was stolen by Mundungus Fletcher & sold, so harry will
* * * * *have to visit him in Azkaban to find out who he sold it to!


4th - We've been told that someone would discover magic late in life. I think as soon as Harry
* * * * turns 17, Voldemort will go after him at Privett drive...He'll have already left....Voldemort
* * * * will kill Vernon, & threaten Dudley.........& Petunia will manifest her magic!


* * * I agree that Regulus may have found more than one Horcrux and Mundungus may have
sold one of them or Kreacher may have saved one of them from being thrown out.

* * * I was thinking that Dudley may perform magic late in life. Dumbledore said, he had been
treated worse than Harry by his parents" *I'm thinking ,they have not allowed him to know he
is a wizard.

* * * * * I was thinking that Dudley may perform magic late in life. Dumbledore said, he had been
treated worse than Harry by his parents" *I'm thinking ,they have not allowed him to know he
is a wizard.


I thought that he was referring to the fact that they raised him to be a spolied brat. But that's just me.

I thought that he was referring to the fact that they raised him to be a spolied brat. But that's just me.


I agree. I also agree with lonewolf when he said Petunia would do some magic. Thats an awesome twist. I like that idea, and it has a great chance of coming true.

(btw, terrys online..)

Yeah that would be interesting if Petunia did magic.

The only thing I have a hard time with is how JK is going to fit the destroying of FOUR horcruxes and the big Harry Voldy battle in one book...

Yup I finished it yesterday, AND ITS AWESOME :lol2:

I've thought about that too, but I guess since Harry won't be going to school next year, he'll have the whole year to concentrate on it.

Here's a question I've been thinking about... The witches and wizards go to school for 7 years, but what happens after that? Is there a Witches and Wizards university? Doesn't seem to be, yet obviously they haven't learned everything there is to learn yet. I guess they just learn what is necessary on the job, but the idea intrigued me that there is so much more to learn than what they are taught in school.

Yeah that would be interesting if Petunia did magic.

The only thing I have a hard time with is how JK is going to fit the destroying of FOUR horcruxes and the big Harry Voldy battle in one book...

I also was thinking about this.. also, how will Harry destroy them?? He doesn't really know how. Also, remember how Dumbledore got into the cave, found the boat, broke the barrier* to the potion, and all that... well Dumbledore was muttering what seemed to be complex spells, and how would Harry know how to do this if he came across an obstacle such as that ? But, if Regulus took them all to Grimmauld place, then Harry just needs to track them down and worry about destroying them..


I've thought about that too, but I guess since Harry won't be going to school next year, he'll have the whole year to concentrate on it.

Here's a question I've been thinking about... The witches and wizards go to school for 7 years, but what happens after that? Is there a Witches and Wizards university? Doesn't seem to be, yet obviously they haven't learned everything there is to learn yet. I guess they just learn what is necessary on the job, but the idea intrigued me that there is so much more to learn than what they are taught in school.


I also thought about this, but I have nothing to contribute. I have absolutely no clue .

Wow, what's going on with this thread that makes it so hard to post a reply?

Bill's scars will heal normally and eventually disappear once the werewolf who bit him, Fenrir Greyback, is killed in book 7. It won't help Lupin since he was bit during the full moon.

The locket in the drawing room at Grimmauld place just has to be one of the missing horcruxes. Place there by Regulus.

Is the reason that Dumbledore wanted Snape to kill him because he was going to die anyway? The burned hand that couldn't be healed is ominous. I don't think that DD has a horcrux, you have to plan to murder someone to arrange that, it seems. DD might kill someone in the line of duty, so to speak, but wouldn't set out with the intent to do so. Also, he hinted that the potion in the basin in LV's cave wouldn't kill you. Would it have kept him alive if he hadn't gone over the edge of the parapet? I've said that I hope DD isn't really dead, but the funeral and the portrait on the wall sure make it seem real

BTW, in spite of what Harry said, I think that HP and company at least (and possibly Draco) will be back in school for their last year. The books have all related directly to which year in school that they're attending. I don't think that will change. In fact, Dumbledore may have more than one portrait hanging around (pun intended), he may tell Harry that he needs to be back in school in order to get the info he needs to track down LV's horcruxes. That is if DD is truly dead. There's still some uncertainty, you can't always believe what you see in the wizard world.

Harry and Ron will become aurors, Hermione will be a healer, like her parents before her (they're dentists, no?). Of course, she will have to attend the equivalent of med school and apprentice at St. Mungo's, who probably runs the med school. They've already said that it takes 3 years of additional training to become an auror, so there's the answer to the lack of Wizard U. The auror program is run by the Ministry.

We've had spoilers about Petunia showing some latent abilities before. There probably be some lingering affect of DD's protection charm and Lily's blood sacrafice which will make Privet Drive safe for the Dursleys, once Harry leaves.

Right when I saw that , I knew it stood for that. But.. wasn't he a Death Eater!?

That's why the note is addressed "Dark Lord". When I read that I thought it's one of his own.

I am not convinced Severus is evil. He could have hurt Harry very badly without killing him if he wanted but did not. He also saved Malfoy and his mother from certain death (wonder if there is some sort of relationship between them?)
If DD is still alive he is fee to find what he needs without anyone knowing it. I also thought when I read it that DD froze Harry, it was so he would not interfere.
As for Harry being a horcruxes it would answer a few questions as to why he and Voldy are so linked but it raises others.* Why (unless he does not realize it) why did Voldy try to kill him?
Anyone else see the bigest theme in this whole book?
Love! That is what will save Harry in the end just as it did in the beginning.

one with the power to vanquish the Dark Lord approaches. born to those who have thrice defied him, born as the seventh month dies . and the Dark Lord will mark him as his equal, but he will have power the Dark Lord knows not . and either must die at the hand of the other for neither can live while the other survives . the one with the power to vanquish the Dark Lord will be born as the seventh month dies .'

Bill's scars will heal normally and eventually disappear once the werewolf who bit him, Fenrir Greyback, is killed in book 7.* It won't help Lupin since he was bit during the full moon.

If this is true than would Lupin become human again as well?

Also, he hinted that the potion in the basin in LV's cave wouldn't kill you.
Yes didn't DD say that the potion would keep you alive so that Voldy would be able to find out how you got passed his defenses?

I am not convinced Severus is evil. He could have hurt Harry very badly without killing him if he wanted but did not. He also saved Malfoy and his mother from certain death (wonder if there is some sort of relationship between them?)
I've heard speculation that Snape was really in love with Harry's mom, Lily, in spite of what Harry saw him saying about her in the penseive in GOF.* I've thought that was the reason that Dumbledore knew Snape was so remorseful about giving the Dark Lord the info on Trelawney's 1st prophecy, because it led to the death of the one Snape secretly loved.* Which would also explain part of why Snape continued to hate James, because he was the one Lily loved.
If this is true than would Lupin become human again as well?
I'd like to think so, but then I don't think that there would be any werewolves, because as soon as the original died then all of them would have become human again.* However, since Bill was attacked (was he bit, or only scratched) when the evil Fenrir wasn't transformed, he probably won't ever transform.* If he's never transformed, the part of the curse that's preventing him from healing could stop with the death of the host of the curse.

As for Harry being a horcruxes it would answer a few questions as to why he and Voldy are so linked but it raises others.* Why (unless he does not realize it) why did Voldy try to kill him?
If this theory is correct, then Harry didn't become the final horcrux until LV tried to kill him, and then it would have to be an accident, that LV intended it to be something else to be the horcrux.* I hate this, because it means Harry has to die for the Dark Lord to die.* I don't want it to be true.* I'd rather go with the "it all ends at Godric's Hollow" theory.* DD was pretty sure that LV didn't make a horcrux out of Gryffindor's sword, his last known artifact.* However, there could be other things in Godric's Hollow (I'm assuming that the place is named after Godric Gryffindor, and was his home) that LV may have been trying to make into a horcrux.* I'd search the ruins of the Potter's destoryed cottage there, it may have the object, if LV was carrying it with him.
Anyone else see the bigest theme in this whole book?
Love! That is what will save Harry in the end just as it did in the beginning.
Yes, could be why Ron and Hermione are saying they'll be with him when he goes horcrux hunting.* I wouldn't be surprised if Ginny, Fred, and George (with their shielding devices and one of their fake wands to fool LV with) are there for the final confrontation.

I wouldn't be surprised if Ginny, Fred, and George (with their shielding devices and one of their fake wands to fool LV with) are there for the final confrontation.


I would laugh so hard if in the last battle it was like this. Voldemort had lost his wand so Fred throws him a fake and it backfires on Voldy!! :lol2: :lol2:

that would just be so like fred and george to do that to voldy!! :lol2:
especially if they do that knowing that perhaps (and don't kill me it's just speculation!) they are about to die. if those two have to die, they just have to go down with a laugh!

Yup they wouldn't go down any other way! :lol2:

I just finished the book and I'm just blown away. The last 100 pages from when Harry gives Ron, Hermione, and Ginny the Felix on through the end was some of the best Writing I've ever read. First of all...Dumbledore is dead as dead. On Snape, I think he could be good, the look of hatred he had on his face up in the tower could have been for himself for what he was about to do, kill the one man who truly believed him over all these years, and his screaming at Harry not to call him a coward kind of reflects on that too, if he really was good he again just killed the one person who truly had faith in him so he could continue on with his mission.

I hope Snape is good. I've always believed he was so when I read what he did I was pretty mad...

OK what was the biggist shock to everyone in the Book?

OMG Tonks and Lupin :o, I would have to see I NEVER saw that coming. I thought it was very cute tho. And it would explain why she was acting funny :)


LoL I know that it doesnt have a whole lot to do with the main story but oh well....

There were a few big shocks to me.* One being Bill getting his face bitten off by a cannibalistic werewolf.* I'd been preparing myself for a Weasley to die, thinking they couldn't ALL survive (though I desperately want them all to, right to the end, I love the Weasleys).* But Ginny's revelation that Bill had been attacked in that way was chilling.* At that moment I flashed back to Greyback smelling of blood and picking his teeth up on the tower, and it hit me it was Bill he was picking out of his teeth...very sickening.* :sick: I was already crying from the previous few chapters, and that just made me sob.* But Fleur's "I'm am good looking enough for the both of us, I theenk!" I LOVED.

As for Snape, I don't believe he's evil.* I'm on the side that he was acting on Dumbledore's orders, just like Harry was when Dumbledore made Harry promise to make him drink the potion.* The wording in both is telling...Harry hates himself and feels disgusted, and Snape has a look of hate and disgust on his face.* They're both having to harm the one man who has trusted them, and who they trust themselves.* Plus, Snape wasn't hurting Harry when Harry went after him.* He was actually GIVING him fighting tips...to block his mind and shut his mouth, because Voldemort will be able to predict what Harry's about to do in the final fight if he doesn't.

My guess is Snape had to take the Unbreakable Vow to keep his cover, but he told Dumbledore.* Dumbledore, already weakened by his damaged hand, told him to keep an eye on Draco, try to keep him from succeeding in his mission if possible.* Dumbledore knew he'd be hunting more Horcruxes, and that he was likely to get weaker, possibly to the point of death, when breaking the enchantments guarding them.* I think that he told Snape that if he was at the point of death after a Horcrux mission, and there wasn't much hope in saving him, to go ahead and kill him.* This would keep Snape's Vow to Narcissa, and it would protect Draco's soul, keeping him from damaging his soul by becoming a killer.* He made Snape promise to do this, just like he did with Harry, and after drinking the potion, Dumbledore knew he was dying...that's why he demanded that Harry get Snape, and only Snape, to aid him.* If all had gone as planned, Snape could've "tended" to him privately, quietly killing Dumbledore out of anyone's presence, without anyone being wiser. He could've kept playing both sides.

However, Draco's plan got in the way.* He cornered Dumbledore first, then the other DE's showed up.* By the time he got there, Dumbledore was already dying, and he had no choice but to do it publicly, in front of witnesses, before Draco or someone else did it.* So Dumbledore, with his "Please, Severus..." reminded him of his promise, and he killed Albus then, but hated himself for having to do it.* It also killed his cover with the Order, since Dumbledore didn't tell anyone else this plan, having never intending to die so publicly.* This leaves Snape closer to Voldemort than ever, but with no one to report to, no one on the good side who still believes in him.* :(

If I'm right about this, I finally feel bad for Snape a bit...and I've always rather hated him.* What a terrible position to be in.

As far as Dumbledore being dead...I do believe he is really, most sincerely dead.* Snape's Vow was to complete Draco's mission, if Draco himself could not do it, and that mission was to kill Dumbledore.* So if Dumbledore isn't really dead, then Draco's mission would've failed, and Snape would die from failure to fulfill his Vow.

However, I do believe Dumbledore will still be around just in another presence.* First, and most obviously, there is his new painting.* And don't forget his picture on all those Chocolate Frog cards.

I have a crazy theory, though.* Just before the Tomb closes, there is a burst of flames, and white smoke...Harry thinks for a second that he sees a phoenix fly off.* Then the fire vanishes, and the tomb is there.* In the Fantastic Beasts and Where to Find Them companion book, it says that Phoenixes live a very long time through their regeneration process...not forever.* What if, with his last lament, Fawkes died along with Dumbledore.* In mythology, when one Phoenix dies, it is replaced by another.* So, in that vein of thought...it would be cool if, when Dumbledore died, Fawkes also finally perished one last time.* However, Dumbledore himself became a Phoenix....he replaces Fawkes.* We know JKR's phoenixes can vanish in a puff of fire and smoke, and appear somewhere else.* It's possible, then, that Harry did see a phoenix right before the White Tomb closed....Dumbledore reborn as a Phoenix.

I know, insane theory, and not likely.* Still, JKR has said that Harry, at some point in the series, will get a new pet.* And that hasn't happened yet.* Knowing how important phoenix song is (giving hope to the pure, striking fear into the evil) and their tears healing properties....well, how awesome would it be if Phoenix-Dumbledore became Harry's new "pet", still able to watch over Harry and offer him those special forms of protection.* Also, Dumbledore's Patronus was a Phoenix...maybe it was a hint of something to come.* I'm not going to hold my breath for this idea, but it's interesting, nonetheless.* And I'll die of laughter if I'm right.

Sorry this was so long, but my theory all kind of tied together.* :)* Had to put it out there.

~ RG

I would laugh so hard if in the last battle it was like this. Voldemort had lost his wand so Fred throws him a fake and it backfires on Voldy!!* :lol2: :lol2:



That makes sense that Harry will need help from his friends to beat Voldy.
Remember - one of Tom Riddle's weaknesses is that he refuses to have any friends or accept help from
anyone. But Harry's friends will be there for him.

Another random thought, I'm not sure if anyone here has mentioned it yet...

I think they'll find the Ravenclaw Horcrux in the Room of Requirement.

When Harry hid the HBP's potions book in there, he stuffed it in a wardrobe, then put a bust on top of it, so he could find it again in all the clutter. On top of the bust, he placed a wig, and on the wig, he placed a tarnished tiara. Just a hunch, but I think the tiara might be Ravenclaw's.

In the memory where Voldemort came to visit Dumbledore to ask for the DADA job, there was something off. Dumbledore said that Voldemort knew that he would be refused the job, and inquired to his real purpose in travelling all the way to Hogwarts. Voldemort never answered. I believe that he used this meeting to gain entry to the castle, where he planted a Horcrux (possibly the tiara, maybe something else). And what better place to hide a Horcrux than the "hidden stuff" room in the Room of Requirement? It's so full of junk, some old, tarnished tiara wouldn't draw any attention at all (especially from students too busy hiding their own things), and it would also be protected by the enchantments around the school.

Oh, and the Locket Horcrux, I'm almost positive that Aberforth Dumbledore (barman at the Hogs Head) has it. Right before Harry discovered Mundungus with Sirius's silver, "the barman drew his cloak more tightly around his neck and walked away...(pg.245)." Aberforth had been meeting with Mundungus, and if Dung DID steal the locket from 12 GP, then there's a good possiblity that he sold it to Aberforth, right before Harry walked up.

Also, in an interview, JKR stated that we'd be meeting a member of the Order that we haven't been properly introduced to, in Book 7. Harry knows the barman by sight, but he doesn't know WHO he is, that he's Albus's brother. And it would be a perfect opportunity to meet him, tracking down that horcrux.

As for destroying the horcruxes....I have no idea. Though I was wondering what would happen if you chucked them through the Veil. Hey, it worked on my poor Padfoot. :'( I know that won't actually work though....it's WAY too easy. Still, I just keep having this mental imagine of Harry throwing the locket that won't open through the Veil in the Death Chamber, and it comes out on the other side, open, the bit of soul sucked out of it. :laugh: Maybe he could try feeding a horcrux to a dementor, they like devouring souls. :lol2:

~ RG

ohh, reading it again is fun.. I started it while I was stuck in jury duty yesterday...
sooo, when is book 7 coming out :P ;D

Another random thought, I'm not sure if anyone here has mentioned it yet...

I think they'll find the Ravenclaw Horcrux in the Room of Requirement.

When Harry hid the HBP's potions book in there, he stuffed it in a wardrobe, then put a bust on top of it, so he could find it again in all the clutter. On top of the bust, he placed a wig, and on the wig, he placed a tarnished tiara. Just a hunch, but I think the tiara might be Ravenclaw's.

In the memory where Voldemort came to visit Dumbledore to ask for the DADA job, there was something off. Dumbledore said that Voldemort knew that he would be refused the job, and inquired to his real purpose in travelling all the way to Hogwarts. Voldemort never answered. I believe that he used this meeting to gain entry to the castle, where he planted a Horcrux (possibly the tiara, maybe something else). And what better place to hide a Horcrux than the "hidden stuff" room in the Room of Requirement? It's so full of junk, some old, tarnished tiara wouldn't draw any attention at all (especially from students too busy hiding their own things), and it would also be protected by the enchantments around the school.

Oh, and the Locket Horcrux, I'm almost positive that Aberforth Dumbledore (barman at the Hogs Head) has it. Right before Harry discovered Mundungus with Sirius's silver, "the barman drew his cloak more tightly around his neck and walked away...(pg.245)." Aberforth had been meeting with Mundungus, and if Dung DID steal the locket from 12 GP, then there's a good possiblity that he sold it to Aberforth, right before Harry walked up.

Also, in an interview, JKR stated that we'd be meeting a member of the Order that we haven't been properly introduced to, in Book 7. Harry knows the barman by sight, but he doesn't know WHO he is, that he's Albus's brother. And it would be a perfect opportunity to meet him, tracking down that horcrux.

As for destroying the horcruxes....I have no idea. Though I was wondering what would happen if you chucked them through the Veil. Hey, it worked on my poor Padfoot. :'( I know that won't actually work though....it's WAY too easy. Still, I just keep having this mental imagine of Harry throwing the locket that won't open through the Veil in the Death Chamber, and it comes out on the other side, open, the bit of soul sucked out of it. :laugh: Maybe he could try feeding a horcrux to a dementor, they like devouring souls. :lol2:

~ RG


Ohh thats a very interesting observation about the tiara. It could very well be true!

About Aberforth being the barman.... did it ever mention that in the books ??? I don't remember.. or did JK say that ?
I agree that Mundungus sold it. In the 5th book when they were cleaning the house, they found a locket, which must be Slytherins, and then Mundungus took it and a lot of over stuff and sold it all. So you could very well be right on this one as well!! ;D


There were a few big shocks to me. One being Bill getting his face bitten off by a cannibalistic werewolf. I'd been preparing myself for a Weasley to die, thinking they couldn't ALL survive (though I desperately want them all to, right to the end, I love the Weasleys). But Ginny's revelation that Bill had been attacked in that way was chilling. At that moment I flashed back to Greyback smelling of blood and picking his teeth up on the tower, and it hit me it was Bill he was picking out of his teeth...very sickening. :sick: I was already crying from the previous few chapters, and that just made me sob. But Fleur's "I'm am good looking enough for the both of us, I theenk!" I LOVED.

As for Snape, I don't believe he's evil. I'm on the side that he was acting on Dumbledore's orders, just like Harry was when Dumbledore made Harry promise to make him drink the potion. The wording in both is telling...Harry hates himself and feels disgusted, and Snape has a look of hate and disgust on his face. They're both having to harm the one man who has trusted them, and who they trust themselves. Plus, Snape wasn't hurting Harry when Harry went after him. He was actually GIVING him fighting tips...to block his mind and shut his mouth, because Voldemort will be able to predict what Harry's about to do in the final fight if he doesn't.

My guess is Snape had to take the Unbreakable Vow to keep his cover, but he told Dumbledore. Dumbledore, already weakened by his damaged hand, told him to keep an eye on Draco, try to keep him from succeeding in his mission if possible. Dumbledore knew he'd be hunting more Horcruxes, and that he was likely to get weaker, possibly to the point of death, when breaking the enchantments guarding them. I think that he told Snape that if he was at the point of death after a Horcrux mission, and there wasn't much hope in saving him, to go ahead and kill him. This would keep Snape's Vow to Narcissa, and it would protect Draco's soul, keeping him from damaging his soul by becoming a killer. He made Snape promise to do this, just like he did with Harry, and after drinking the potion, Dumbledore knew he was dying...that's why he demanded that Harry get Snape, and only Snape, to aid him. If all had gone as planned, Snape could've "tended" to him privately, quietly killing Dumbledore out of anyone's presence, without anyone being wiser. He could've kept playing both sides.

However, Draco's plan got in the way. He cornered Dumbledore first, then the other DE's showed up. By the time he got there, Dumbledore was already dying, and he had no choice but to do it publicly, in front of witnesses, before Draco or someone else did it. So Dumbledore, with his "Please, Severus..." reminded him of his promise, and he killed Albus then, but hated himself for having to do it. It also killed his cover with the Order, since Dumbledore didn't tell anyone else this plan, having never intending to die so publicly. This leaves Snape closer to Voldemort than ever, but with no one to report to, no one on the good side who still believes in him. :(

If I'm right about this, I finally feel bad for Snape a bit...and I've always rather hated him. What a terrible position to be in.

As far as Dumbledore being dead...I do believe he is really, most sincerely dead. Snape's Vow was to complete Draco's mission, if Draco himself could not do it, and that mission was to kill Dumbledore. So if Dumbledore isn't really dead, then Draco's mission would've failed, and Snape would die from failure to fulfill his Vow.

However, I do believe Dumbledore will still be around just in another presence. First, and most obviously, there is his new painting. And don't forget his picture on all those Chocolate Frog cards.

I have a crazy theory, though. Just before the Tomb closes, there is a burst of flames, and white smoke...Harry thinks for a second that he sees a phoenix fly off. Then the fire vanishes, and the tomb is there. In the Fantastic Beasts and Where to Find Them companion book, it says that Phoenixes live a very long time through their regeneration process...not forever. What if, with his last lament, Fawkes died along with Dumbledore. In mythology, when one Phoenix dies, it is replaced by another. So, in that vein of thought...it would be cool if, when Dumbledore died, Fawkes also finally perished one last time. However, Dumbledore himself became a Phoenix....he replaces Fawkes. We know JKR's phoenixes can vanish in a puff of fire and smoke, and appear somewhere else. It's possible, then, that Harry did see a phoenix right before the White Tomb closed....Dumbledore reborn as a Phoenix.

I know, insane theory, and not likely. Still, JKR has said that Harry, at some point in the series, will get a new pet. And that hasn't happened yet. Knowing how important phoenix song is (giving hope to the pure, striking fear into the evil) and their tears healing properties....well, how awesome would it be if Phoenix-Dumbledore became Harry's new "pet", still able to watch over Harry and offer him those special forms of protection. Also, Dumbledore's Patronus was a Phoenix...maybe it was a hint of something to come. I'm not going to hold my breath for this idea, but it's interesting, nonetheless. And I'll die of laughter if I'm right.

Sorry this was so long, but my theory all kind of tied together. :) Had to put it out there.

~ RG

Whoa. I salute you for having so many theories and finding the time to type them!! ;D Now I shall reply and give in my two cents again

At that moment I flashed back to Greyback smelling of blood and picking his teeth up on the tower, and it hit me it was Bill he was picking out of his teeth...very sickening.

EW, YUCK. I never realized that when I read it. Nice observation .. sickenings very right..

But Fleur's "I'm am good looking enough for the both of us, I theenk!" I LOVED.
:lol2:

As for Snape, I don't believe he's evil. I'm on the side that he was acting on Dumbledore's orders, just like Harry was when Dumbledore made Harry promise to make him drink the potion. The wording in both is telling...Harry hates himself and feels disgusted, and Snape has a look of hate and disgust on his face. They're both having to harm the one man who has trusted them, and who they trust themselves. Plus, Snape wasn't hurting Harry when Harry went after him. He was actually GIVING him fighting tips...to block his mind and shut his mouth, because Voldemort will be able to predict what Harry's about to do in the final fight if he doesn't.
I am sort of undecided on this topic. What about Dumbledore pleading with him? Was that part of the plan ??? Why would Dumbledore want to be killed though..
I never realized when I read the book, but you are right, Snape was giving him tips. Interesting

My guess is Snape had to take the Unbreakable Vow to keep his cover, but he told Dumbledore. Dumbledore, already weakened by his damaged hand, told him to keep an eye on Draco, try to keep him from succeeding in his mission if possible. Dumbledore knew he'd be hunting more Horcruxes, and that he was likely to get weaker, possibly to the point of death, when breaking the enchantments guarding them. I think that he told Snape that if he was at the point of death after a Horcrux mission, and there wasn't much hope in saving him, to go ahead and kill him. This would keep Snape's Vow to Narcissa, and it would protect Draco's soul, keeping him from damaging his soul by becoming a killer. He made Snape promise to do this, just like he did with Harry, and after drinking the potion, Dumbledore knew he was dying...that's why he demanded that Harry get Snape, and only Snape, to aid him. If all had gone as planned, Snape could've "tended" to him privately, quietly killing Dumbledore out of anyone's presence, without anyone being wiser. He could've kept playing both sides.

However, Draco's plan got in the way. He cornered Dumbledore first, then the other DE's showed up. By the time he got there, Dumbledore was already dying, and he had no choice but to do it publicly, in front of witnesses, before Draco or someone else did it. So Dumbledore, with his "Please, Severus..." reminded him of his promise, and he killed Albus then, but hated himself for having to do it. It also killed his cover with the Order, since Dumbledore didn't tell anyone else this plan, having never intending to die so publicly. This leaves Snape closer to Voldemort than ever, but with no one to report to, no one on the good side who still believes in him. :(
Okay , this answered some of my questions :) About why he wanted to be killed, why he said "Please Severus" so thanks lol

If I'm right about this, I finally feel bad for Snape a bit...and I've always rather hated him. What a terrible position to be in.
If you are right, which i am beginning to really really believe you are, then I agree with you :( I have hated him.. but now i feel so bad..


As far as Dumbledore being dead...I do believe he is really, most sincerely dead. Snape's Vow was to complete Draco's mission, if Draco himself could not do it, and that mission was to kill Dumbledore. So if Dumbledore isn't really dead, then Draco's mission would've failed, and Snape would die from failure to fulfill his Vow.

However, I do believe Dumbledore will still be around just in another presence. First, and most obviously, there is his new painting. And don't forget his picture on all those Chocolate Frog cards.

I have a crazy theory, though. Just before the Tomb closes, there is a burst of flames, and white smoke...Harry thinks for a second that he sees a phoenix fly off. Then the fire vanishes, and the tomb is there. In the Fantastic Beasts and Where to Find Them companion book, it says that Phoenixes live a very long time through their regeneration process...not forever. What if, with his last lament, Fawkes died along with Dumbledore. In mythology, when one Phoenix dies, it is replaced by another. So, in that vein of thought...it would be cool if, when Dumbledore died, Fawkes also finally perished one last time. However, Dumbledore himself became a Phoenix....he replaces Fawkes. We know JKR's phoenixes can vanish in a puff of fire and smoke, and appear somewhere else. It's possible, then, that Harry did see a phoenix right before the White Tomb closed....Dumbledore reborn as a Phoenix.

I know, insane theory, and not likely. Still, JKR has said that Harry, at some point in the series, will get a new pet. And that hasn't happened yet. Knowing how important phoenix song is (giving hope to the pure, striking fear into the evil) and their tears healing properties....well, how awesome would it be if Phoenix-Dumbledore became Harry's new "pet", still able to watch over Harry and offer him those special forms of protection. Also, Dumbledore's Patronus was a Phoenix...maybe it was a hint of something to come. I'm not going to hold my breath for this idea, but it's interesting, nonetheless. And I'll die of laughter if I'm right.

Wow. You are wonderful at thinking up new plausible theories. These are wonderful, and I would not be surprised if they came true! ;D When I read the book, I knew he was dead, but I also knew he would come back some other way, not a real human... but he would be there. It is a very interesting idea!

Sorry this was so long, but my theory all kind of tied together. :) Had to put it out there.

Don't say sorry, ity was awesome to read and reply . Very interesting theories :) Thanks for putting them out

The most shocking part for me wasn't that Dumbledore died and it wasn't that Snape killed him it was just that split second before Snape did it when Dumbledore was pleading with him.

I finished it yesterday morning ;D It was awesome. You guys should really go to the other discussion board, it has a lot of theories for the 7th book, and what happened in the 6th one ;D

Yes, that was very very shocking, although as Rock_Goddess said, he may have been pleading for a different reason then we may think ,, because he wanted Snape to kill him

RG
great theories *:punk:

I think DD was pleading with him to do what Snape had promised he would do when the time came.
He would not come out and say "You promised"

I think the bigest clue to Severus not being evil is that DD believed so much in him. If he was evil that would make DD look very much the fool and I don't think that will be the case when all is said and done.

I also think Harry might find the truth to what really is behind Snape's actions in the pensive bowl.

Rock Goddess,

Let me just say wow! That was great! I think you may be on the money with just about everything but the last little theory. But thank you so much for that. You opened up my eyes to a new perspective I hadn't thought of. :)

I have a crazy theory, though. Just before the Tomb closes, there is a burst of flames, and white smoke...Harry thinks for a second that he sees a phoenix fly off. Then the fire vanishes, and the tomb is there. In the Fantastic Beasts and Where to Find Them companion book, it says that Phoenixes live a very long time through their regeneration process...not forever. What if, with his last lament, Fawkes died along with Dumbledore. In mythology, when one Phoenix dies, it is replaced by another. So, in that vein of thought...it would be cool if, when Dumbledore died, Fawkes also finally perished one last time. However, Dumbledore himself became a Phoenix....he replaces Fawkes. We know JKR's phoenixes can vanish in a puff of fire and smoke, and appear somewhere else. It's possible, then, that Harry did see a phoenix right before the White Tomb closed....Dumbledore reborn as a Phoenix.


That's what i said like 3 pages ago!!! yay! someone else has my theory!!!! :D

At that moment I flashed back to Greyback smelling of blood and picking his teeth up on the tower, and it hit me it was Bill he was picking out of his teeth...very sickening.

ohhh, ew. now im going to think of that when I read that part again.. how awful.

I fully agree that DD will be back in some form to help Harry. I really like the pheonix idea. I don't know if anyone read that Cub reporter thing... but they ask her about Fawkes...

Peter Humphreys for BBC Newsround. - Who did Fawkes previously belong to and will he play a vital role in the next book?

JK Rowling: I am not going to answer about the role in the next books, which probably gives you a big clue, and he has never been owned by anyone but Dumbledore. You will notice that when Harry goes back in the Pensieve in this book, Fawkes is never there, and ** no, I am sorry, not in this book, I take that back. When Harry has previously seen the study with a different headmaster he saw it with Dippet and Fawkes was not there then. Fawkes is Dumbledore's possession, not a Hogwarts possession.


so... maybe her refusal to answer directly means that a pheonix will be involved.


oh and hte link to the transcript is:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/cbbcnews/hi/newsid_4690000/newsid_4690800/4690885.stm

I bought it at midnight Friday night, & finished it Sunday morning. It's gonna break my heart
to finish the last book. In every book, when they arrive at Hogwarts, I feel like I've come home!

I know what you mean...

what will I read after the 7th one. I've never looked foward to a book being released so much.. I've certainly never bought anything the night it was released....
heck, I even look foward to the movies! and then the dvds...

So here it is:

Horcrux #1 - Marvolo's ring -* killed the 3 Riddles to make it; debunked by Dumbledore
Horcrux #2 - Heir's of Slytherin's Diary - killed Moaning Myrtle to make it; ruined by Harry
Horcrux #3 - Hufflepuff's cup - killed her descendant, Hepzibah Smith; is still extant?
Horcrux #4 - Slytherin's locket - who killed? - don't know; destroyed by Regulus? at Grimmauld?
Horcrux #5 - Ravenclaw's Tiara? -* who killed?, don't know; is still extant? in room of requirement?
Horcrux #6a - Originally planned on being something of Gryffindor's found in Godric's hollow - was using the Potters, Harry especially, to make it but was foiled (check ruins of Potters cottage) so...
Horcrux #6b - Nagini the snake - killed Bertha Jorkins to make it; still slitherin' around (love that one!)

The Goblet of fire movie is gonna be good!
The scene I'm most looking forward to is where it's Harry's turn to face the dragon, & he calls
his Firebolt to him! Man - I hope the director does it just like in the book - where the broom pulls up next to him & he just mounts it, & takes off!

The scene I most want to see in the Order of the Pheonix movie is where they all take off on
the thestrels (hope I spelled that right) to fly to London! :jump1: :jump1:

oh, I've seen some of the preview things for Goblet of Fire... It does look good... I cant wait to see Voldemort. I feel that scene is just going to be crazy....

I hope everyone stays on to film Order of the Pheonix... and maybe by the time that comes out... we'll have the last book :o

So here it is:

Horcrux #1 - Marvolo's ring - killed the 3 Riddles to make it, debunked by Dumbledore
Horcrux #2 - Heir's of Slytherin's Diary - killed Moaning Myrtle to make it, ruined by Harry
Horcrux #3 - Hufflepuff's cup - killed her descendant, Hepzibah Smith, is still extant?
Horcrux #4 - Slytherin's locket, who killed? - don't know, destroyed by Regulus? at Grimmauld?
Horcrux #5 - Ravenclaw's Tiara?, who killed? - don't know, is still extant?
Horcrux #6a - Originally lanned on being something of Gryffindor's found in Godric's hollow, was using the Potters, Harry especially, to make it but was foiled (check ruins of Potters cottage) so...
Horcrux #6b - Nagini the snake, killed Bertha Jorkins to make it, still slitherin' around (love that one!)


Thanks for makin the list :) Its helpful . About Slytherins locket... I doubt it has been destroyed. It could be, but Regulus didn't have much time to get it and destroy, so who knows if he ever found out how to destroy it.

I also dont think that Regulas could have destroyed it.. At some point in the book Lupin says something to the effect that he only lived a few days after leaving Voldy...

Also, just wondering.. is there any way that he never made the last horcrux?? If he intended to use the the Potter's death, maybe after things went all wrong he wouldnt have been able to preform whatever powerful spell was used to put part of his soul into an object... I'm more or less just hoping that Harry will have less to do in order to kill Voldemort....


And don't you ahve to kill someone yourself to make a horcrux.. and Mrytle was killed by the basilisk......

And don't you ahve to kill someone yourself to make a horcrux.. and Mrytle was killed by the basilisk......You have to murder someone.* Remember, the 'memory' of Tom Riddle said "It was Ginny Weasly who set the basilisk on the mudbloods."* So think of the basilisk as a weapon, just like a knife or gun, that was used for murder.

About Slytherins locket... I doubt it has been destroyed. It could be, but Regulus didn't have much time to get it and destroy, so who knows if he ever found out how to destroy it.
I guess 'destroyed' was a bad choice of words.* Regulus could have debunked it the same way DD did with 'Marvolo's/Morfin's/The house of Pereville's' ring.* The stone in the ring was cracked, but the ring was not broken.* However, DD made sure it was no longer a horcrux.* It could also be that Regulus didn't know how to 'de-horcrux' Slytherin's Locket and that's why he left it at his parent's house, a place which his dad made unplottable.* Harry must find it to make sure it's really, most sincerely dead.

We may have missed something---
Voldy is alive. Maybe he used one of the horcrux to achieve this and we don't know it yet.
So that would leave 6

I thought he only ever made 6, so wouldn't that make 5.. ??

Voldy's body is number 7, as DD said.* He needed 6 horcruxes and himself as the 7 receptacles for his soul(s). He used the bone, flesh, and blood spell to restore his body.

Ohhh ok, I understand now, thanks ;D

So here it is:

Horcrux #1 - Marvolo's ring -* killed the 3 Riddles to make it; debunked by Dumbledore
Horcrux #2 - Heir's of Slytherin's Diary - killed Moaning Myrtle to make it; ruined by Harry
Horcrux #3 - Hufflepuff's cup - killed her descendant, Hepzibah Smith; is still extant?
Horcrux #4 - Slytherin's locket - who killed? - don't know; destroyed by Regulus? at Grimmauld?
Horcrux #5 - Ravenclaw's Tiara? -* who killed?, don't know; is still extant? in room of requirement?
Horcrux #6a - Originally planned on being something of Gryffindor's found in Godric's hollow - was using the Potters, Harry especially, to make it but was foiled (check ruins of Potters cottage) so...
Horcrux #6b - Nagini the snake - killed Bertha Jorkins to make it; still slitherin' around (love that one!)


What if Horcrux #6 is Harry's scar? LV had originally planed to go to Godric's Hollow for something else, his planned got foiled, and when he killed Harry's mom the scar was what turned into a horcrux. That is why Harry can feel Voldemort, can speak parsel tongue and whatnot. It has been leaked that the last word in the last book is scar. If so, does this mean that Harry must die?? :'(

I have a few "Do you think/belive..." questions about book 7 for anyone and everyone to answer ;D You don't have to answer every single one, but I thought they might be fun to answer, and to see other peoples replies.

1. Do you think Hogwarts will close?

2. Do you believe that Harry will let Ron and Hermione come with him through his adventures ?

3. Do you think they will really WANT to? *( Its NEWT year! )

4. Do you think Dumbledore will come back, somehow, someway, into the book?

5. Do you sincerely believe Dumbledore is dead?

6. Do you believe RAB = Sirius' brother, Regulus ?

7. If you answered yes to question 6, do you think he got more then 1 Horcrux?

8. Do you believe he had time to destroy them?

9. Do you think that Voldemort *knew Regulus found out about the Horcruxes?

10. Do you think Rufus Scrimgeour will remain the Minister for Magic ?

11. Do you believe more then one human will die in book 7? If so, who?

12. Do you believe the final confrontation will consist of Harry/Voldemort, or Ron Hermione, *members of the Order, *etc., etc. ?

Hopefully you will answer at least *a couple , and have fun doing so ;D

1. Do you think Hogwarts will close?
I kinda think it will... Or if it does re-open I dont think Harry and everyone will finish the 7th year...

2. Do you believe that Harry will let Ron and Hermione come with him through his adventures ?
I don't think he will exactly be like..'you guys have to come' but I think they will make sure they go with him.

3. Do you think they will really WANT to? ( Its NEWT year! )
I think Hermoine will have issues leaving school but she will be more loyal to Harry... After all... maybe once it's all over she can go back and finish up. I think Ron will be ok with leaving.

4. Do you think Dumbledore will come back, somehow, someway, into the book?
yes... pretty please, with a cherry on top!

5. Do you sincerely believe Dumbledore is dead?
I think he is :'(

6. Do you believe RAB = Sirius' brother, Regulus ?
yuppers

7. If you answered yes to question 6, do you think he got more then 1 Horcrux?
I think he only has the one. Since he was killed a few days after he left V.

8. Do you believe he had time to destroy them?
no.. or he didnt know how...

9. Do you think that Voldemort knew Regulus found out about the Horcruxes?
I think he may have known that Regulus knew about that... that whole thing where Voldemort said about taking measures to make himself immortal. But I'm not sure if he knew that he took the locket... Can V. tell when someone gets rid of one?? Or moves one?

10. Do you think Rufus Scrimgeour will remain the Minister for Magic ?
yes

11. Do you believe more then one human will die in book 7? If so, who?
yes.. and Im too scared to think who

12. Do you believe the final confrontation will consist of Harry/Voldemort, or Ron Hermione, members of the Order, etc., etc. ?
I think the others will be there at the end... but it will ultimately come down to just Harry and Voldemort. Harry is going to have to get rid of him on his own without any help...

1. Do you think Hogwarts will close? Yes, temporaraily at least. *Harry would be too filled with the need for revenge to stay in school anyway.

2. Do you believe that Harry will let Ron and Hermione come with him through his adventures ? *Yes, I don't think he would have a choice. *They will make sure to go with him.

3. Do you think they will really WANT to? *( Its NEWT year! ) *Yes, especially if there is no school in session

4. Do you think Dumbledore will come back, somehow, someway, into the book? *No, maybe a letter left behind to Harry, but I don't anticipate him coming back.

5. Do you sincerely believe Dumbledore is dead? Yes.

6. Do you believe RAB = Sirius' brother, Regulus ? Sounds good to me.

7. If you answered yes to question 6, do you think he got more then 1 Horcrux? Possible, but don't think so. *If he destroyed the locket after leaving the Death Eaters, then how much time did he really have? *A couple of months? *I think he may have only had time for one and that he probably only considered that LV had one. *Like DD said, having more than one horcrux has never been done before, so he may not have even considered the fact that there were more.

8. Do you believe he had time to destroy them? No

9. Do you think that Voldemort *knew Regulus found out about the Horcruxes? No

10. Do you think Rufus Scrimgeour will remain the Minister for Magic ? Yes.

11. Do you believe more then one human will die in book 7? If so, who? That's a tough one. *Someone will have to die, but I'm not going to guess who.

12. Do you believe the final confrontation will consist of Harry/Voldemort, or Ron Hermione, *members of the Order, *etc., etc. ? *I think it will come down to a one on one battle of Harry vs. Voldemort and that there will be some sort of act of love/sacrifice to help Harry defeat Voldemort. *Possibly Ginny, put her name under the answer for 11.


Yes, much fun, thanks!

What if Horcrux #6 is Harry's scar? LV had originally planed to go to Godric's Hollow for something else, his planned got foiled, and when he killed Harry's mom the scar was what turned into a horcrux. That is why Harry can feel Voldemort, can speak parsel tongue and whatnot. It has been leaked that the last word in the last book is scar. If so, does this mean that Harry must die?? :'(
No, No, No, NO . . . Harry can't die, don't want to hear it. *Besides, if LV was trying to make a horcrux by killing Harry, then it wouldn't have worked as Harry didn't die. *However, if he inadvertantly made a horcrux of Harry's scar, using Jame's and Lily's deaths, then maybe all he needs is a magical plastic surgeon to remove the scar and that would KO one more horcrux. *BTW, have I said that Harry can't die recently?

Great answers, and thanks for replying pug3323 ! :)

. Do you think they will really WANT to? *( Its NEWT year! )
I think Hermoine will have issues leaving school but she will be more loyal to Harry... After all... maybe once it's all over she can go back and finish up. *I think Ron will be ok with leaving.
Thats exactly my thoughts :D

4. Do you think Dumbledore will come back, somehow, someway, into the book?
yes... pretty please, with a cherry on top!

Couldn't have said it better myself ;D

9. Do you think that Voldemort *knew Regulus found out about the Horcruxes?
I think he may have known that Regulus knew about that... that whole thing where Voldemort said about taking measures to make himself immortal. *But I'm not sure if he knew that he took the locket... Can V. tell when someone gets rid of one?? *Or moves one?
In HBP, Harry asked Dumbledore whether Voldemort can tell, and Dumbledore was not positive, but made it clear that in his opinion, V. has no clue.

12. Do you believe the final confrontation will consist of Harry/Voldemort, or Ron Hermione, *members of the Order, *etc., etc. ?
I think the others will be there at the end... but it will ultimately come down to just Harry and Voldemort. *Harry is going to have to get rid of him on his own without any help...

Once again, my thoughts exactly



Oooh I forgot to add a question ...

13. Where do you think the final confrontation will take place?

Btw, in my opinion, it'll be back where it allllll started.

Godrics Hollow

1. Do you think Hogwarts will close? Yes, temporaraily at least. Harry would be too filled with the need for revenge to stay in school anyway.

2. Do you believe that Harry will let Ron and Hermione come with him through his adventures ? Yes, I don't think he would have a choice. They will make sure to go with him.

3. Do you think they will really WANT to? ( Its NEWT year! ) Yes, especially if there is no school in session

4. Do you think Dumbledore will come back, somehow, someway, into the book? No, maybe a letter left behind to Harry, but I don't anticipate him coming back.

5. Do you sincerely believe Dumbledore is dead? Yes.

6. Do you believe RAB = Sirius' brother, Regulus ? Sounds good to me.

7. If you answered yes to question 6, do you think he got more then 1 Horcrux? Possible, but don't think so. If he destroyed the locket after leaving the Death Eaters, then how much time did he really have? A couple of months? I think he may have only had time for one and that he probably only considered that LV had one. Like DD said, having more than one horcrux has never been done before, so he may not have even considered the fact that there were more.

8. Do you believe he had time to destroy them? No

9. Do you think that Voldemort knew Regulus found out about the Horcruxes? No

10. Do you think Rufus Scrimgeour will remain the Minister for Magic ? Yes.

11. Do you believe more then one human will die in book 7? If so, who? That's a tough one. Someone will have to die, but I'm not going to guess who.

12. Do you believe the final confrontation will consist of Harry/Voldemort, or Ron Hermione, members of the Order, etc., etc. ? I think it will come down to a one on one battle of Harry vs. Voldemort and that there will be some sort of act of love/sacrifice to help Harry defeat Voldemort. Possibly Ginny, put her name under the answer for 11.


Yes, much fun, thanks!


Thanks for replying, I love reading other peoples opinions !

2. Do you believe that Harry will let Ron and Hermione come with him through his adventures ? Yes, I don't think he would have a choice. They will make sure to go with him

My favourite response of yours ;D I think it will most certainly come true!

maybe all he needs is a magical plastic surgeon to remove the scar
hehe.. that would be sweet!!!


I agree, it'll all end at Godric's Hollow... So everythign comes full circle... (is it bad that I now have that circle of life song in my head.. yick)

In HBP, Harry asked Dumbledore whether Voldemort can tell, and Dumbledore was not positive, but made it clear that in his opinion, V. has no clue.
nice.. I can't remember everythign I read.. hence why Im going over it again...


maybe Dumbledore will come back through the pensieve... maybe he stored a memory of something that will help Harry.... or at least understand his death.. though I really think Snape is just awful and is still a Death Eater..

OH I just thought of something ::is excited, but doesn't really know why..::


Well don't you think its obvious that everyone in the Order is aware that they could die, so they made a will? And most older people make wills right? DUMBLEDORE ;D

Do you think he may have left Harry something?

Perhaps.. the pensieve?? What else maybe?

They are all going back to school, every one of the books has been about one of their years at Hogwarts, book 7 will be no exception. *If DD is truly dead, one of his pictures will insist that Harry return to school, a) because the rest of his life depends on his education, b) the knowledge of the horcruxes can be best learned there, c) one or more of the horcruxes could be there or in Hogsmeade, d) Once Harry turns 17, there really isn't a safe place for him to live except 12 Grimmauld Place, and he has bad memories of the place.

1. Do you think Hogwarts will close? No way, Sprout said she would teach even 1 student

2. Do you believe that Harry will let Ron and Hermione come with him through his adventures ?
* *the theme of Harry's resistance to LV is love, here are 2 people he loves, speaks for itself

3. Do you think they will really WANT to? *( Its NEWT year! )
* *Don't think it will interfere with their NEWTS, they're adults now, they can get off school grounds whenever they want, they can apparate where ever they want, being in/at school won't stop them from doing anything.

4. Do you think Dumbledore will come back, somehow, someway, into the book? yes he will, remember all of the pictures, even if his is dead

5. Do you sincerely believe Dumbledore is dead? *the $64,000 question, got a coin?

6. Do you believe RAB = Sirius' brother, Regulus? Absolutely, Sirius made him sound like a wimpy jerk, but Slughorn was as impressed with Regulus' talents as he was with Sirius and James.

7. If you answered yes to question 6, do you think he got more then 1 Horcrux? Maybe, since he got to the basin in the cave, he had to be a pretty good wizard, why not.

8. Do you believe he had time to destroy them? who knows, maybe he just collected the one and was killed trying to get another, but I think it will be up to Harry to debunk the locket

9. Do you think that Voldemort *knew Regulus found out about the Horcruxes? Yes, that's why he's dead, and I think that Voldemort killed him personally, Sirius wasn't sure of the details.

10. Do you think Rufus Scrimgeour will remain the Minister for Magic? For at least a little while, maybe until the end of book 7.

11. Do you believe more then one human will die in book 7? If so, who? We're talking main characters, right? 'cuz lots of people died in book 6, but only DD as a main character. *Yes, people will die, I think (but hate to say it) Lupin, at least one other regular member of the order - maybe Mad Eye, the member of the Order JKR says we'll get to know better (DD's brother Aberforth?), one of the Weaslys (a twin, Charlie, and/or Percy), plus probably one more that we know (Draco?).

12. Do you believe the final confrontation will consist of Harry/Voldemort, or Ron Hermione, *members of the Order, *etc., etc. ? Harry, Ron, and Herminone - Yes. *Lupin - Yes. *Other members of the Order - They'll come in later, like they did at the end of Phoenix.

OH I just thought of something ::is excited, but doesn't really know why..::


Well don't you think its obvious that everyone in the Order is aware that they could die, so they made a will? And most older people make wills right? DUMBLEDORE ;D

Do you think he may have left Harry something?

Perhaps.. the pensieve?? What else maybe?


Thats a good idea... I find it hard to believe that with all that was going on Dumbledore wouldnt have left something somewhere for Harry.... He must have known he wasnt going to be around forever.. after all he was giving all those memories to Harry.. and making him get the one himself from Slughorn... maybe to prepare him to get information on his own from people... for when Dumbledore wasnt around

Well don't you think its obvious that everyone in the Order is aware that they could die, so they made a will? And most older people make wills right? DUMBLEDORE ;D
Do you think he may have left Harry something?Perhaps.. the pensieve??
How about Fawkes? DD knew that he and Harry had a connection. Like the idea of the pensieve. How about the ring that used to be a horcrux, maybe it could be used to find it's brothers. DD's office was full of his stuff. There could be a lot more.

They are all going back to school, every one of the books has been about one of their years at Hogwarts, book 7 will be no exception. *If DD is truly dead, one of his pictures will insist that Harry return to school, a) because the rest of his life depends on his education, b) the knowledge of the horcruxes can be best learned there, c) one or more of the horcruxes could be there or in Hogsmeade, d) Once Harry turns 17, there really isn't a safe place for him to live except 12 Grimmauld Place, and he has bad memories of the place.

1. Do you think Hogwarts will close? No way, Sprout said she would teach even 1 student

2. Do you believe that Harry will let Ron and Hermione come with him through his adventures ?
* *the theme of Harry's resistance to LV is love, here are 2 people he loves, speaks for itself

3. Do you think they will really WANT to? *( Its NEWT year! )
* *Don't think it will interfere with their NEWTS, they're adults now, they can get off school grounds whenever they want, they can apparate where ever they want, being in/at school won't stop them from doing anything.

4. Do you think Dumbledore will come back, somehow, someway, into the book? yes he will, remember all of the pictures, even if his is dead

5. Do you sincerely believe Dumbledore is dead? *the $64,000 question, got a coin?

6. Do you believe RAB = Sirius' brother, Regulus? Absolutely, Sirius made him sound like a wimpy jerk, but Slughorn was as impressed with Regulus' talents as he was with Sirius and James.

7. If you answered yes to question 6, do you think he got more then 1 Horcrux? Maybe, since he got to the basin in the cave, he had to be a pretty good wizard, why not.

8. Do you believe he had time to destroy them? who knows, maybe he just collected the one and was killed trying to get another, but I think it will be up to Harry to debunk the locket

9. Do you think that Voldemort *knew Regulus found out about the Horcruxes? Yes, that's why he's dead, and I think that Voldemort killed him personally, Sirius wasn't sure of the details.

10. Do you think Rufus Scrimgeour will remain the Minister for Magic? For at least a little while, maybe until the end of book 7.

11. Do you believe more then one human will die in book 7? If so, who? We're talking main characters, right? 'cuz lots of people died in book 6, but only DD as a main character. *Yes, people will die, I think (but hate to say it) Lupin, at least one other regular member of the order - maybe Mad Eye, the member of the JKR says we'll get to know better (DD's brother Aberforth?), one of the Weaslyes (a twin, Charlie, and/or Percy), plus probably one more that we know (Draco?).

12. Do you believe the final confrontation will consist of Harry/Voldemort, or Ron Hermione, *members of the Order, *etc., etc. ? Harry, Ron, and Herminone - Yes. *Lupin - Yes. *Other members of the Order - They'll come in later, like they did at the end of Phoenix.


hmm ... very interesting, thanks for answering , I like your answers. Its something new.

Yes Sprout is determined to keep it open , as are other teachers, I am sure, but will the Ministry allow it? ?


How about Fawkes? DD knew that he and Harry had a connection. Like the idea of the pensieve. How about the ring that used to be a horcrux, maybe it could be used to find it's brothers. DD's office was full of his stuff. There could be a lot more.


I think Fawkes may be long gone. Or dead. I don't think he stuck around, but if I am wrong, I love the idea!

And yes, there could be a lot more :)

I can't wait two more years more the next book :(

I'm pretty much in the minority thinking that the school will stay open & that Harry will return for his 7th year - where he will be helped by Ron & Hermione, Ginny, members of the order & finially Sape. I think Harry will learn that DD asked Snape to kill him by seeing that memory in the pensive. I think DD will be back in his picture in the headmaster's office & possibly in the Pheonix.

oh, it would be rather helpful if the ring could point to the other horcruxes....

I don't knwo how I'm going to be able to wait for the 7th one either...

oh, it would be rather helpful if the ring could point to the other horcruxes....

I don't knwo how I'm going to be able to wait for the 7th one either...


I thought the same thing about waiting for the sixth one, but we survived. ;)

I'm pretty much in the minority thinking that the school will stay open & that Harry will return for his 7th year - where he will be helped by Ron & Hermione, Ginny, members of the order & finially Sape. I think Harry will learn that DD asked Snape to kill him by seeing that memory in the pensive. I think DD will be back in his picture in the headmaster's office & possibly in the Pheonix.
Yes!!!! That's one thing that DD would definitely leave Harry, his memories! *I agree with all of what you've said!

Yes Sprout is determined to keep it open , as are other teachers, I am sure, but will the Ministry allow it? ?
The ministry will allow it, it should be one of the safest places for the kids. *Remember what efforts Draco had to go to (repairing the vanishing chest) to even be able to get any death eaters onto the grounds. *I think that was a 1-time shot and that the security at the school will be just as tight or tighter.
I thought the same thing about waiting for the sixth one, but we survived. ;)

I thought the same thing about waiting for the sixth one, but we survived. ;)


barely.. hehehe... I also waited until the paperback come out to read OotP.. so, it was only a year wait... ohhh, the suspense is going to be the end of me :P :o

The worst for me was waiting for the 5th book. When I finished The Goblet of Fire I was like NOOOOOOOO! It can't end now! That was the biggest HP cliff hanger imo.

barely.. hehehe... I also waited until the paperback come out to read OotP.. so, it was only a year wait... ohhh, the suspense is going to be the end of me :P :o
Bet you spring for the hardback next time. ;)

What if the new Order member turns out to be ... Snape!

Think about it. He's secretly leaving clues to help Harry and Harry doesn't know until the last quarter of the book. DD made him a secret member. Thoughts?

??? Snape's already in the Order. Am I missing something?

What if the new Order member turns out to be ... Snape!
Think about it. He's secretly leaving clues to help Harry and Harry doesn't know until the last quarter of the book. DD made him a secret member. Thoughts?

??? Snape's already in the Order. Am I missing something?
There's a good point, do you think that Harry will take steps to keep Snape out of Grimmauld Place since he thinks he's a traitor? Will Snape be there when Harry shows up to tell him that DD's death was all part of the plan, it just happened sooner than expected? Snape certainly is going to be in like Flynn with the death eaters after having several bady guy witnesses watch him 'kill' DD. Will Snape be able to reveal the location of Grimmauld Place, now that the secret keeper (DD) is dead? What about the other members of the Order, we they be able to get there now that DD is dead?

POOF!!

Too many questions, brain popped!

I have a few "Do you think/belive..." questions about book 7 for anyone and everyone to answer ;D You don't have to answer every single one, but I thought they might be fun to answer, and to see other peoples replies.

1. Do you think Hogwarts will close? No

2. Do you believe that Harry will let Ron and Hermione come with him through his adventures ? He probably won't want to at first but in the end they'll wind up with him

3. Do you think they will really WANT to? ( Its NEWT year! ) Yes, definitely. The last two pages made it kind of obvious.

4. Do you think Dumbledore will come back, somehow, someway, into the book? Only in his portrait, the pensieve, and maybe a letter

5. Do you sincerely believe Dumbledore is dead? Yes. He is dead.

6. Do you believe RAB = Sirius' brother, Regulus ? Sounds like its got to be.

7. If you answered yes to question 6, do you think he got more then 1 Horcrux? Nope, just the locket

8. Do you believe he had time to destroy them? No, if he had time to destroy it then they probably would've been able to open the locket when they found it in Grimmauld Place

9. Do you think that Voldemort knew Regulus found out about the Horcruxes? Yep, and I think he was killed by Voldemort.

10. Do you think Rufus Scrimgeour will remain the Minister for Magic ? I guess, don't really care one way or the other though.

11. Do you believe more then one human will die in book 7? If so, who? Definitely. Not sure who yet

12. Do you believe the final confrontation will consist of Harry/Voldemort, or Ron Hermione, members of the Order, etc., etc. ? I think it will be a large battle ala the Department of Mysteries, but it'll come down to Harry v. Voldemort

Hopefully you will answer at least a couple , and have fun doing so ;D



I think the final battle will be at either Hogwarts, the courtyard where Voldemort came back, or at Godrics Hollow.

I thought he only ever made 6, so wouldn't that make 5.. ??

oh, yes sorry miss calculated :blushing: if he used 1 that would leave 5

1. Do you think Hogwarts will close?
I don't think it will close, though I don't think many students will be back.* I do think it will now be used as headquarters for the OOTP. It will also give Harry the access to DD's picture and any thoughts he might have to help Harry. Along with any special things that might be stored there.

2. Do you believe that Harry will let Ron and Hermione come with him through his adventures ?
Not willingly for fear that something will happen to then but they will be buy his side.

3. Do you think they will really WANT to?* ( Its NEWT year! )
Don't think they will care much since they are now at war openly with Valdy and the death eaters.

4. Do you think Dumbledore will come back, somehow, someway, into the book?
I think he will be back in some form but not alive. ( see question 1)

5. Do you sincerely believe Dumbledore is dead?*
Yes, His picture is hanging along side all the other dead headmasters of the school

6. Do you believe RAB = Sirius' brother, Regulus?
Yes.

7. If you answered yes to question 6, do you think he got more then 1 Horcrux?
That we will have to wait and see.

8. Do you believe he had time to destroy them?
If he found all or part of then I don't think he had time to do anything about them

9. Do you think that Voldemort* knew Regulus found out about the Horcruxes?
Not sure, If he had he would have replaced the one that DD and Harry found or the note that was in it would have been gone.

10. Do you think Rufus Scrimgeour will remain the Minister for Magic?
Yes, would not be smart in these dangerous times to be changing leadership to often if you do not have to. I do think there is something about Rufus that we don't know yet.

11. Do you believe more then one human will die in book 7?
I think at least Snipes will die. I think he will sacrifice himself to save either Harry or Draco
I think* Bellatrix and Garp will also die. Mundungus (sp?) or mad eye moody. Tonks or Lupin will be hurt.

12. Do you believe the final confrontation will consist of Harry/Voldemort, or Ron Hermione,* members of the Order,* etc., etc. ?
I think it will come down to Harry and Valdy with the others facing the death eaters and maybe a few dementors.

I hate Snape.... He is such an @$$... Dangit I hate that man. Ok, I'm done now.

1. Do you think Hogwarts will close?
I don't think it will close, though I don't think many students will be back. I do think it will now be used as headquarters for the OOTP. It will also give Harry the access to DD's picture and any thoughts he might have to help Harry. Along with any special things that might be stored there.

2. Do you believe that Harry will let Ron and Hermione come with him through his adventures ?
Not willingly for fear that something will happen to then but they will be buy his side.

3. Do you think they will really WANT to? ( Its NEWT year! )
Don't think they will care much since they are now at war openly with Valdy and the death eaters.

4. Do you think Dumbledore will come back, somehow, someway, into the book?
I think he will be back in some form but not alive. ( see question 1)

5. Do you sincerely believe Dumbledore is dead?
Yes, His picture is hanging along side all the other dead headmasters of the school

6. Do you believe RAB = Sirius' brother, Regulus?
Yes.

7. If you answered yes to question 6, do you think he got more then 1 Horcrux?
That we will have to wait and see.

8. Do you believe he had time to destroy them?
If he found all or part of then I don't think he had time to do anything about them

9. Do you think that Voldemort knew Regulus found out about the Horcruxes?
Not sure, If he had he would have replaced the one that DD and Harry found or the note that was in it would have been gone.

10. Do you think Rufus Scrimgeour will remain the Minister for Magic?
Yes, would not be smart in these dangerous times to be changing leadership to often if you do not have to. I do think there is something about Rufus that we don't know yet.

11. Do you believe more then one human will die in book 7?
I think at least Snipes will die. I think he will sacrifice himself to save either Harry or Draco
I think Bellatrix and Garp will also die. Mundungus (sp?) or mad eye moody. Tonks or Lupin will be hurt.

12. Do you believe the final confrontation will consist of Harry/Voldemort, or Ron Hermione, members of the Order, etc., etc. ?
I think it will come down to Harry and Valdy with the others facing the death eaters and maybe a few dementors.

I agree with most of these answers but I also think she might kill one of the main three (although I hope she doesn't!) If she did kill one of the main three I think it would most likely be Harry...I think he might kill himself and Voldemort in order to save the Wizarding world he loves so much.

Also I think Hogwarts might close for a year due to the lack of students attending. When and if Voldemort gets killed then I think the school will be reopened. I really don't think they would just skip their NEWT year like that.

One more point. I think Dumbledore is dead for sure and is NOT coming back in any form. I mean JK Rowling hasn't brought back any of her other characters yet so I don't think Dumbledore's an exception. Remember few wizards choose to become a ghost. Unless he's found a way to be immortal like Qui-Gon Jinn...= )

DD will not be a ghost but his portrate is still able to communicate as the others have done. We have seen this in the other books. I think DD will still have some wisdom still to impart to Harry.



AA! Can't J.R. write any faster? WANT to read book 7 NOW!
But I want to! *pouts* *sulks* and *pouts some more* :getlost:

Wow so many Good theorys...I like the Pheonix/dumbledore espeically

lol I guess NO esle thought it was shocking about Tonks and Lupin lol I just could never emigine it before but now it just seems so cute now, and then them holding hands at the end and her hair going back to Pink, a nice touch if i might say.

I HAVE I HAVE I HAVE!!!
lol only took me 5 Days to read it, Took me like 3 weeks to read the OotP


Ok I have said this in other HP theards but i am gonna say it here too lol
Was anyone esles shocked about Tonks and lupin? I Know i was, I was convinced that after Harry had said something that she had been in Love with sirius(I would be lol) Anyways I think that they will make a good couple.

What if Horcrux #6 is Harry's scar? LV had originally planed to go to Godric's Hollow for something else, his planned got foiled, and when he killed Harry's mom the scar was what turned into a horcrux. That is why Harry can feel Voldemort, can speak parsel tongue and whatnot. It has been leaked that the last word in the last book is scar. If so, does this mean that Harry must die?? :'(



I agree about the scar being a horcrux, but maybe Harry doesn't have to die...just destroy the scar !J.K. has said somewhere that the scar has powers.

Also, Harry said he was going to Godric Hollow & visit his parents' graves. I am convinced that hes gonna
discover that he's a descendant of Godric Grifindore through Lilly. (I know her parents were muggles,
but what if her one of them was a squib & never told the other about their wizarding ancestry?)
J.K. is always going on about the significance of Harry having his mother's eyes.....Dont be surprised if it turns out that GG had green eyes!

11. Do you believe more then one human will die in book 7? If so, who? We're talking main characters, right? 'cuz lots of people died in book 6, but only DD as a main character. *Yes, people will die, I think (but hate to say it) Lupin, at least one other regular member of the order - maybe Mad Eye, the member of the Order JKR says we'll get to know better (DD's brother Aberforth?), one of the Weaslys (a twin, Charlie, and/or Percy), plus probably one more that we know (Draco?).



I hadn't thought of one of the twins being killed! But that would create an opening for Ron to become a partner in the business!

I can't believe it is going to be 3-4 years maybe for the next book, the last one is so great that I can't wait that long!!! As I don't have much to do at work (ever) my friend and I have decided that we will write the next book :w00t:

*It is actually really good fun and we've finished the first chapter now. It'll be good to see how close (or in reality just how far off) we are when JKR's book does come out!

:jump1: :jump1: :jump: :jump1: :jump1:

Sorry to be repetitive... but if the Horcruxes are related to the four "houses" of Hogwarts (Slytherin, Gryffindor, Ravenclaw and Hufflepuff)... then I find lonewolf's remark rather interesting:

Also, Harry said he was going to Godric Hollow & visit his parents' graves. I am convinced that hes gonna
discover that he's a descendant of Godric Grifindore through Lilly. (I know her parents were muggles,
but what if her one of them was a squib & never told the other about their wizarding ancestry?)


Doesn't that make a case for Harry himself being the seventh Horcrux?

Bet you spring for the hardback next time. ;)


yup.. and Ill be getting it at midnight when its released.. just like this last one ;D ;D

I was shocked about it.. I didn't see it coming at all. I think it's cute that they like each other though... ;D

Regulus Black. The scar is a horcrux. Those are perfect, and I feel dumb for not thinking of them. You guys are good.

On the other hand, I was somewhere between half and three quarters right about this book. I knew that DD would die and that Harry would blame Snape (and from the first appearance of the book I knew Snape was the Half-Blood Prince. Who else is that good at potions?). But I thought he'd be unable to prove it, and that Snape would end up as Hogwarts headmaster next year, so that Harry had to foil him at every turn. (Dumb on my part, since that was part of the plot of OOTP.) The shocker for me was Harry deciding to leave Hogwarts next year, and yes, I think he will follow through.

Snape cannot be evil. *:-\ *The whole bent of this book from the second chapter was to scream: "He is evil, EVIL I TELL YOU! EEEEEEEEEVIL!" It's too obvious. Since there's another book to go in the series, this cannot be true. It's against the laws of drama to reveal the traitor until the very end. That's my story and I'm sticking to it. ;)

Dumbledore and Snape must have had a plaaaan, possibly even before Snape took the unbreakable vow (remember that he says he thinks LV has always intended him to be the one to kill DD). Since DD is the only one that LV has ever feared, Dumbledore has to be dead to smoke him out. And Snape's standing with LV was obviously weak; killing DD was probably the test he needed to pass to get into LV's good graces.

I do think that Dumbledore made a horcrux. The withered arm is the clue. Voldemort himself didn't start out all snaky and gross looking--he became less and less human looking, I think, as he put bits of his soul into the horcruxes. Losing one's soul reflects on one's body. The murder thing is very difficult to get past, but all this phoenix talk makes me think--what if DD killed FAWKES? I don't think it's specified that the "murder" must be of a human. He could kill Fawkes only to have him rise again. If all this is true, DD's horcrux is probably Gryffindor's sword; he makes a point of telling Harry that it has been protected from Voldemort. The only person who knows the truth, however, is Snape, and since no one will let him w/in miles of Hogwarts, it won't be possible to resurrect DD until the end of the next book when the plan comes out and Snape is vindicated and/or dead.


I have a few "Do you think/belive..." questions about book 7 for anyone and everyone to answer ;D You don't have to answer every single one, but I thought they might be fun to answer, and to see other peoples replies.

1. Do you think Hogwarts will close?

No. It will lose a lot of students but other families, spearheaded by the Weasleys and the Longbottoms, will insist that it stay open.

2. Do you believe that Harry will let Ron and Hermione come with him through his adventures ?

Let him try to stop them, LOL. Ginny will be the sticking point. If Harry lets his best friends risk being Voldemort's targets, girlfriend is not going to be too pleased at being "protected" (another reason why Hogwarts needs to stay open--to contain the wrath of Ginny).

3. Do you think they will really WANT to? *( Its NEWT year! )

Hmm, fight with your best friend to save the wizarding world or finish your education? R & H will definitely opt for the former (Hermione will make some brave speech about being able to go back and take her exams another year). All three of them will legally be adults so no one can stop them.

4. Do you think Dumbledore will come back, somehow, someway, into the book?

See above; not until the very end, after LV has been defeated.

5. Do you sincerely believe Dumbledore is dead?

Yes, for now.

6. Do you believe RAB = Sirius' brother, Regulus ?

Yes! Kudos to everyone who caught that.

7. If you answered yes to question 6, do you think he got more then 1 Horcrux?

Yes, but he didn't have time to get all of them (not counting Harry). That's proved by the fact that he didn't find the book and the ring; Hufflepuff's cup, also, would stand out like a sore thumb at #12 (which I agree is where he was storing his finds), so I don't think he got that either. He had the locket (stolen by Dung) and possibly one more (kept by Kreacher, and possibly put in the Room of Requirement--can house elves get in there?).


8. Do you believe he had time to destroy them?

He had neither the time nor the knowledge. Reg was Sirius's younger brother, and I had the impression that the Potters were killed when they and Sirius were in their early 20s. That would mean Regulus was only about 20 or so--still a kid. He hid them because he hadn't yet figured out how to destroy them.

9. Do you think that Voldemort *knew Regulus found out about the Horcruxes?

...No. If he had, wouldn't he have tortured Reg into telling where they were, rather than killing him outright?

Regulus's betrayal, his theft, and his death all must have happened in very quick succession--probably very quickly followed by LV's own "death."


10. Do you think Rufus Scrimgeour will remain the Minister for Magic ?

Yup. Don't think he'll be a big part of the story, though.

11. Do you believe more then one human will die in book 7? If so, who?

...Yes. I think that either Snape or Harry will definitely die--possibly both.

Possible victims, in order of danger:

Harry
Snape
Ron
Hagrid
Ginny
other Weasleys/Lupin/Tonks

I really think Ron kicks it, because that would be a killing blow for Harry. And if Ron dies on his watch, he would also expect to lose everyone else he loves--Hermione, Ginny, his surrogate family the Weasleys (I don't think this would happen, btw, but Harry would hate himself and be convinced they should hate him, too).

Draco, btw, makes it out alive and probably on the road to redemption.

12. Do you believe the final confrontation will consist of Harry/Voldemort, or Ron Hermione, *members of the Order, *etc., etc. ?

Ron/Hermione/the Order/Neville/Luna--everybody will play a part in the final battle, but when it comes down to the end and all hope seems lost, it will be Harry, Voldemort, and possibly Snape.

1. Do you think Hogwarts will close?
I don't think so, at least not totally. Even if the governors and the MoM try to shut them down, I can see the Heads of Houses keeping it going. McGonagall would never abandon the school totally, and Sprout has already declared that if one student wants to learn from them, they should teach that one student. Flitwick and Hagrid agreed, and I think Slughorn will stick around, too. However, I don't think they'll have too many students...mainly former DA members, and a few others. Neville, Luna, etc. will be back at school. I don't think the Trio will be, at least not full time. If they actually go back to school, they'll spend most of their time leaving to hunt horcruxes.

2. Do you believe that Harry will let Ron and Hermione come with him through his adventures ?
Yes. He might resist at first, but he'll remember that Dumbledore wouldn't have wanted Harry undertaking this alone. He told Harry to trust Ron and Hermione, and he'll realize he needs them, them mutual love and support between the 3.

3. Do you think they will really WANT to? ( Its NEWT year! )
Yes, I absolutely believe that they'll want to be by Harry's side, no matter what. Which shows how much they care, especially from Hermione's pov...she'd be giving up quality education time to aide Harry in his quest. And Ron utterly loyal...being anywhere but with Harry would be torture to him.

4. Do you think Dumbledore will come back, somehow, someway, into the book?
Absolutely...most certainly through his painting. And I'd be willing to bet he left Harry his pensieve (remember, wizards do have wills), along with some memories. Perhaps that is where Harry will find the memory of why Albus trusted Snape...or of the argument Hagrid overhead them having in the forest. And the Dumbledore Phoenix theory is still my favorite pet theory, no matter how unlikely.

5. Do you sincerely believe Dumbledore is dead?
Yes. I've heard some good arguments that he's actually alive, but I think he's dead. It would cheapen his message that "death is the next great adventure", and his repeated assurances that there are fates worse than death, if he somehow played a "get out of death free" card. Harry and his friends have to do this themselves now.

6. Do you believe RAB = Sirius' brother, Regulus ?
Yep! And I think he took Kreacher with to get the locket. He had to have help, and he'd been a unqualified wizard, or some other smallish creature that wouldn't register on the little boat's magic-o-meter.

7. If you answered yes to question 6, do you think he got more then 1 Horcrux?
I think he only got the one, but I could be wrong.

8. Do you believe he had time to destroy them?
No, because I think if the locket had been un-horcruxed, then they would've been able to open it. I still believe it's either (a) in Kreacher's cupboard, or (b) stolen by Mundungus, and possibly sold to the barman at the Hogshead, Aberforth.

9. Do you think that Voldemort knew Regulus found out about the Horcruxes?
I don't know if he knew specifically, but I think he knew there was something more wrong there than just plain old desertion from the Death Eaters. Lupin points out early on that they found Karkaroff's body, and he lasted almost a year, whereas Regulus only lasted a few days when he abandoned Voldemort. And around the time he deserted, LV was probably focusing all of his attention of the Prophecy, and finding the kid who could do him in. I doubt one junior DE taking off would be his top priority, unless he though Regulus knew something. Which is probably why he didn't last too long.

(Though I've always secretly harbored a suspicion that Regulus isn't dead at all, but that's another story...but seriously, think of what Dumbledore said to Draco about protecting him...the "They can't kill you if you're already dead" bit.) Long shot, but this is HP, so I'm not discounting it totally.

10. Do you think Rufus Scrimgeour will remain the Minister for Magic ?
Probably. One could hope, though, that he'd learn a lesson from Harry, and cut the politics and positioning, and start being a responsible leader. But this is government we're talking about, so not likely.

11. Do you believe more then one human will die in book 7? If so, who?
Yes, absolutely. First off, I fear for Hagrid. The inversion theory leans to this. Harry got to know Hagrid initially in Book 1, he became closer with Dumbledore in Book 2, and he met Sirius in Book 3. In Book 4 (the middle book) he met Cedric, and the same book Cedric died. Sirius died in Book 5, and Dumbledore in 6. If the pattern plays out, Hagrid is a goner...and I will cry my eyes out.

I'd be pleasantly shocked if all the Weasleys make it through...it's my fondest wish, no matter how unrealistic it would be. I'm holding out for OBHWF. But if one must die, I hope it's Percy...but he dies redeeming himself. I'd also wager plenty of smaller characters die in the end (Scrimgeour, Mad-Eye, etc.) And plenty of DE's....Bella (please let Neville get her!!), Lucius, and Greyback (Go Lupin and Bill!! Kill that cannibalistic pedophile freak!) had all better get theirs. And Voldemort, of course. And I'd wager Snape dies proving himself to Harry.

12. Do you believe the final confrontation will consist of Harry/Voldemort, or Ron Hermione, members of the Order, etc., etc. ?
I believe the final confrontation will include the Trio, Ginny and some of the DA and the Order, much like the battle in the DoM in OotP. But it will come down to Harry and LV battling...however, in spirit Harry won't be alone, because he'll have the love and support of all his friends, alive and dead, welling inside him...that's his power, don't forget. Harry has his whole, untarnished soul that feels and recieves so much love...LV has a small fraction of a soul, with no friends or love.

~ RG

Regulus Black. The scar is a horcrux. Those are perfect, and I feel dumb for not thinking of them. You guys are good.
I can't buy the scar being a horcrux, because Harry didn't die.* Even though James & Lily did, I think Voldemort was planning the horcrux based on Harry's death.* It would have been the last horcrux.* Recall the first horcrux, Marvolo's ring with the House of Pereville's crest.* Yes, he killed his paternal grandparents 'for good measure', but the base of making his horcrux was the death of his 'filthy muggle father' who abandoned his mother.* The same with Harry, the death of 'the one with the power to vanquish the Dark Lord' would be the significant death, and Harry failed to die.

I do think that Dumbledore made a horcrux. The withered arm is the clue. Voldemort himself didn't start out all snaky and gross looking--he became less and less human looking, I think, as he put bits of his soul into the horcruxes. Losing one's soul reflects on one's body. The murder thing is very difficult to get past, but all this phoenix talk makes me think--what if DD killed FAWKES? I don't think it's specified that the "murder" must be of a human. He could kill Fawkes only to have him rise again. If all this is true, DD's horcrux is probably Gryffindor's sword; he makes a point of telling Harry that it has been protected from Voldemort.
I don't think that killing Fawkes would suffice, although it is true that it wasn't specified.* Besides, we heard Fawkes' lament after DD's passing.* He may have a horcrux, though.* I don't think that the making of a horcrux would differentiate between a premeditated taking of another's full life and a mercy killing.* At the end of GoF, Barty Crouch Jr had his soul sucked out by a dementor.* His body, however, was still alive and, as Sirius stated, could go on living for quite awhile as long as the heart and brain weren't damaged.* His heart and brain should have been fine, Barty Jr was in his early 30's and 'was nursed back to health by Winky'.* Dumbledore wouldn't* have had to use the unforgivable curse, Adava Kedavera.* We know this because Voldemort used various other methods to murder his victims for horcruxes.* He used the basalisk to get Myrtle and he poisoned Hepzibah Smith.* So if Dumbledore finished off Barty Jr's body, he could have been responsible by doing something as easy as being the one to decide to cut off his nutrition.* It wouldn't have been a classic murder, and some would say it was a kindness to end the limbo state his body was in, but it probably would have sufficed.* The only basic question is would Dumbledore be willing to perform this piece of dark magic, he usually isn't.

I've been trying to figure why DD's hand never seemed to heal, and your idea of the split soul is as good as I've heard.* Also, I like the idea of Gryffindor's sword being DD's horcrux because I believe that Godric was the only one of the founders that LV didn't have a posession for to create a horcrux.* I think LV intended to make a Gryffindor horcrux with Harry's death, but that failed.

Since this is such a long thread already, I have not read it all. I have just skimmed through several pages.

Am I the only person who was thoroughly disappointed in The Half-Blood Prince? To me it was overly long and went exactly nowhere. I really enjoyed reading the book, but when I was finished, I couldn't understand how I could have enjoyed it. Rowling reminds me more and more of Stephen King with each book.

Don't get me wrong. I love Stephen King , but his speciality is writing forever without really saying anything. There was no subtlety at all inthis book. Mystery, mystery, mystery, then suddenly smack you upside the head with an out of left field solution.

Yes, Snape was the obvious choice because of his skill with potions, but an obvious choice is usually obvious because most people can see it. Harry & co. never even thought about Snape. Not even Hermione. Sorry, but you can't spend 5 books telling your readers someone is brilliant, then suddenly have them turn idiot in the 6th installment.

And why exactly did Dumbledor die? Just on account of JK wanted someone to die? Because Richard Harris died and JK doesn't like the new guy? His death would have been ok, had the necklace not been fake, but that stripped the death of all dignity and meaning. He died for nothing. Just to have something happen. Not a satisfying reason at all.

The first chapter? Sorry, if it was there in order to set up some deeper meaning in the last book, then it is simply shoddy writing on JK's part. If you are going to make your reader spend an entire chapter (especially the first chapter!) of your book introducing a group of characters, you are oblged to connect those characters to the story ... within the confines of THIS book. I imagine the connection to the "real" world was set up because the final battle between Harry and Voldemort will be in the real world rather than in the wizarding community.

And last, but not least ... the ending? OMG! It was like one of those horrible movie endings that beat you over the head with a bat and scream SEQUEL in your ear. All of her other books have been written in such a way that a reader could pick up any one and read it ... all by its self. If a reader did that with Half-Blood, they would be cheated out of a proper ending. It was like she got to where the end should be and suddenly developed writer's cramp so she just scribbled out a quick ending.

Whew ... I feel much better now. :)

I love Harry Potter (and incidentally, I have believed for the last couple of books that "the Chosen One" is actually going to end up being Neville), I love the movies and I love the books. I just really felt like JK short shrifted her readers with this last effort.

Am I the only person who was thoroughly disappointed in The Half-Blood Prince? To me it was overly long and went exactly nowhere. I really enjoyed reading the book, but when I was finished, I couldn't understand how I could have enjoyed it.

I love Harry Potter (and incidentally, I have believed for the last couple of books that "the Chosen One" is actually going to end up being Neville), I love the movies and I love the books. I just really felt like JK short shrifted her readers with this last effort.
Well, I loved the book, but then I was jonesing to get at it. I think that Harry/Ron/Hermione didn't consider Snape as the half-blood prince because they assumed him to be a pure-blood, since he was in Slytherin. Also, in the pensieve scene in OotP, when Harry viewed the confrontation between James/Sirius and Snape, when Lily intervened, Snape called her a mudblood. The only other half-blood we've heard with such a prejudice was Voldemort himself. As for Neville, if the prophecy is worth anything, it can't be him. Sybil's prophecy said clearly "the dark lord will mark him as an equal." Neville hasn't been marked by the dark lord. At the end of OotP, Dumbledore used just this reasoning to tell Harry "there's very little doubt that it is you."

Well personally I had thought Snape ws the HBP before I even started the book because in one of JKR's interviews before HBP was out she had been asked if Snape was pure-blood or half-blood and she said she couldn't answer that.

And also it makes since that Dumbeldore would die if you think about it. Because the prophecy points out that in the end only Harry will be able to kill Voldemort and if Dumbledore was alive he would protect Harry to his end (which obviously came.) It also makes since that he would die at the end of this book because in the last book he will only have the love of his friends to protect him.

Well, I loved the book, but then I was jonesing to get at it.* I think that Harry/Ron/Hermione didn't consider Snape as the half-blood prince because they assumed him to be a pure-blood, since he was in Slytherin.* Also, in the pensieve scene in OotP, when Harry viewed the confrontation between James/Sirius and Snape, when Lily intervened, Snape called her a mudblood.* The only other half-blood we've heard with such a prejudice was Voldemort himself.* As for Neville, if the prophecy is worth anything, it can't be him.* Sybil's prophecy said clearly "the dark lord will mark him as an equal."* Neville hasn't been marked by the dark lord.* At the end of OotP, Dumbledore used just this reasoning to tell Harry* "there's very little doubt that it is you."


I think what disappointed me so much with this book, is that all the others presented a situation/mystery and then we watched as people ran around trying to solve the mystery ... slowly uncovering clues and bits and pieces ... sometime right and sometimes not ... then culminated in the mystery being solved by figuring out which clues were right and using them.

In this installment, everyone ran around in no particular direction without discovering much of anything. It just ran headlong toward the end and then just dangled there.

All the books are great reads and very well written. I just felt like this one was a really well written story with the plot strategically removed.

And also it makes since that Dumbeldore would die if you think about it. Because the prophecy points out that in the end only Harry will be able to kill Voldemort and if Dumbledore was alive he would protect Harry to his end (which obviously came.) It also makes since that he would die at the end of this book because in the last book he will only have the love of his friends to protect him.


Harry faced Voldemort twice before without Dumbledor's aid.

No, in Sorcerrer's Stone Dumbledore rescued him and got him back to the Hospital Wing. And in the Chamber of Secrets Fawkes came to Harry. (I'm starting to believe that Dumbledore's soul really does live in Fawkes.)

Perhaps Fawkes is Dumbledore's horcrux. He said it would be risky to put part of one's soul in a animal that thinks and makes decisions for itself when he spoke of Voldemort's possible use of Nagini. However, I think Dumbledore knows Fawkes well enough that he would know if this risk was minimal.

I really don't think that Dumbledore made a Horcrux. Its always seemed to me that Dumbledore has never feared death, he rather thought it as the next step in the journey!

I do believe he will come up in the next book , in his portraits and such, but by no means do I think he created a Horcrux

I would have to say I don't think he made a horcrux either.

I agree with empty - I don't think he would have made a Horcrux when he talked about the damage to the soul. *He'll be around in his portrait for sure though. *And may have possible left memories for Harry to look at, but I would imagine he would have shown him everything she he was showing all of the other memories about LV's past.

Chelly - He probably made a will, so he will definately have something for Harry. Say.. his penseive and the memories... :)

No, in Sorcerrer's Stone Dumbledore rescued him and got him back to the Hospital Wing. And in the Chamber of Secrets Fawkes came to Harry. (I'm starting to believe that Dumbledore's soul really does live in Fawkes.)


One instance of help after the fact and the other is help via his pet. I don't believe he sent Fawkes to help Harry.
I suppose both could be considered help, even if it was indirect, but I really don't want to quibble about that.

-------------------------------------------------------

One of the overriding themes of all the books, has been, things are not as they appear. Nor are they always what people say they are. That (combined with the principle of the best place to hide something is in plain sight) is the primary basis for my belief that Neville will end up being the one who kills Voldemort.

From the very beginning, a huge production has been made over Harry Potter.

What better way to hide (and therefore protect) someone who is right in front of everyone, than to make a huge production over another person, insisting this other person is the person who is actually in need of protection?

Yes, it puts the "substitute" person in danger, but the ruse would have been purpetrated by a group who would have been confident in their ability to protect the person.

Harry want to be one of the guys. He doesn't particularly want to be great. Also Harry doesn't really do anything on his own. He has a lot of help and support throughout.

Neville on the other hand, wants to be more than he is. And he wants to be more for altruistic and righteous reasons. He wants to avenge his parents. He wants his grandmother to be proud of him. He wants to be seen as something other than a putz. Also, everything Neville does, he does on his own. When he demonstrates courage, it is true courage, coming directly from him, with no help or support of any kind.

ETA: if Neville is the chosen one, then both he and Harry get what they want. Otherwise, neither does.

Now Dumbledor is portrayed as the kindly old wizard. He would never endanger one child in favor of another? Right? * I say wrong. *He is kindly, yes, but he is also portrayed as being very pragmatic and confident in himself. It would not be out of character at all for him to set up a situation which appeared dangerous, but which he felt he could keep under control.

\
One of the overriding themes of all the books, has been, things are not as they appear. Nor are they always what people say they are. That (combined with the principle of the best place to hide something is in plain sight) is the primary basis for my belief that Neville will end up being the one who kills Voldemort.


it would be an interesting twist, BUT didn't the prophecy say "He will mark him as his equal" ? DD emphasized that point a LOT, that LV could have chosen either Harry OR Neville to fulfill the prophecy, but he chose Harry, so either Harry will be killed by LV or vice versa. If LV kills Neville, it will JUST be LV killing Neville and nothing more....the prophecy will not be fulfilled in that way...

just my 2 cents

Mo, I agree with you. I am not sure if theres any real signifigance in Neville almost being "The Chosen One" .. Maybe JK did it so we could brew up new theories, who really knows ? but I am positive that it is definately Harry who is "The Chosen One" Just read what Mo said ...

"He will mark him as his equal"

Just a thought about the pensieve. I think when Dumbledore sent Harry to go get his invisibility cloak he put certain useful memories in the pensieve. If the Snape Dumbledore plan is true then perhaps that is one of the thoughts he put in there.

Snape cannot be evil. *:-\ *The whole bent of this book from the second chapter was to scream: "He is evil, EVIL I TELL YOU! EEEEEEEEEVIL!" It's too obvious. Since there's another book to go in the series, this cannot be true. It's against the laws of drama to reveal the traitor until the very end.* That's my story and I'm sticking to it. ;)

Dumbledore and Snape must have had a plaaaan, possibly even before Snape took the unbreakable vow (remember that he says he thinks LV has always intended him to be the one to kill DD). Since DD is the only one that LV has ever feared, Dumbledore has to be dead to smoke him out. And Snape's standing with LV was obviously weak; killing DD was probably the test he needed to pass to get into LV's good graces.



This is basically what I thought. I think this goes to Dumbledore's lack of interest when Harry told him of Snape's conversations with Malfoy. Plus, as you point out, the dramatic story-telling structure of Rowling just seems to be pointing in that direction.

I think Dumbledore is very much alive and his "death" was staged in order to protect Malfoy, remove suspicions of Snape's allegiances among Voldemort and the Death Eaters, and as you point out, to "smoke out" Voldemort.

I knew that Dumbledore would be the one to "die" in this book as that seems like the archetypal step in these type of stories--to remove the wizened teacher/mentor (ala Obi Wan) so that the young hero must stand alone. But Rowling is a wonderful writer with a longterm plan and I just don't think she would necessarily feel obligated to follow a cliche like that.

I also don't think Snape will be properly vindicated in the eyes of Harry through a pensieve or a painting. For Harry to realize and accept the truth about Snape, I think Dumbledore has to still be alive in the flesh. Only then can the truth about Snape be revealed to Harry--when there is no room for doubt. Harry just hates Snape too damn much to accept Snape having remained loyal to Dumbledore any other way. *

I think the series has been building steadily, doing an amazing job of developing multi-layered, complex characters. And I think ultimately Snape will play a major part of Harry's victory. In fact I think in the end it will be Snape who saves Harry's life and in the process it will be Snape, not Harry, who kills Voldemort.

BTW, great that we can discuss Harry Potter on a Lost site!

Mo, I agree with you. I am not sure if theres any real signifigance in Neville almost being "The Chosen One" .. Maybe JK did it so we could brew up new theories, who really knows ?* but I am positive that it is definately Harry who is "The Chosen One"* Just read what Mo said ...




I believe that Voldy chose Harry instead of Neville because He knew that Harry is the heir of Griffindore, &
therefore must be the one mentioned in the prophesy.

Ok here are my 2 cents:

1. Do you think Hogwarts will close?
No, I think that as long as there are children out there who want to learn/study magic it will remain open.

2. Do you believe that Harry will let Ron and Hermione come with him through his adventures ?
Yes, I also think that Neville, Luna and Ginny will also be a part of it.

3. Do you think they will really WANT to? ( Its NEWT year! )
Absolutely, I don't really think that NEWTS will matter much, considering whats going on.

4. Do you think Dumbledore will come back, somehow, someway, into the book?
Yes, I think that it will be in the form of the painting.

5. Do you sincerely believe Dumbledore is dead?
Yep, as much as I don't want him to be, he is. But I don't think he is going to be "gone" per say, he will still be there (see above answer)

6. Do you believe RAB = Sirius' brother, Regulus ?
Yes......

7. If you answered yes to question 6, do you think he got more then 1 Horcrux?
No I think the locket is it.

8. Do you believe he had time to destroy them?
Nope.

9. Do you think that Voldemort knew Regulus found out about the Horcruxes?
No, I think that the early part of the next book is going to be him finding out that it is missing and trying to get it back.

10. Do you think Rufus Scrimgeour will remain the Minister for Magic ?
Eh.... I am debating if there will even be a Ministry of Magic in book 7.

11. Do you believe more then one human will die in book 7? If so, who?
Oh yeah, I think book 7 is going to be chock full of deaths:
Draco - I think he is going to die, for the good of the Order. I think that somehow in the course of the book, his father will try to kill him, on LV orders(Because Draco couldn't kill DD himself) and Draco will realize that his father cares more about LV than him and he will go to the Order.
One of the Weasleys - I am not sure which one (Though if it's Ron, I will LOSE it....) I am hoping it will be Percy in an act of redemption.

12. Do you believe the final confrontation will consist of Harry/Voldemort, or Ron Hermione, members of the Order, etc., etc. ?
I think that the final showdown will involve all of them, in some way at least.

Chelly - He probably made a will, so he will definately have something for Harry. Say.. his penseive and the memories... :)


I'd thought about that same thing too empty. I guess with JK you never know. Just when I think I have an idea what is going to happen she throws me for a loop. It would be awesome if he left a will with information for Harry explaining exactly why he trusted Snape so much (could be in the form of another memory). Would answer a lot of questions.

This is basically what I thought. I think this goes to Dumbledore's lack of interest when Harry told him of Snape's conversations with Malfoy. Plus, as you point out, the dramatic story-telling structure of Rowling just seems to be pointing in that direction.

I think Dumbledore is very much alive and his "death" was staged in order to protect Malfoy, remove suspicions of Snape's allegiances among Voldemort and the Death Eaters, and as you point out, to "smoke out" Voldemort.

I knew that Dumbledore would be the one to "die" in this book as that seems like the archetypal step in these type of stories--to remove the wizened teacher/mentor (ala Obi Wan) so that the young hero must stand alone. But Rowling is a wonderful writer with a longterm plan and I just don't think she would necessarily feel obligated to follow a cliche like that.

I also don't think Snape will be properly vindicated in the eyes of Harry through a pensieve or a painting. For Harry to realize and accept the truth about Snape, I think Dumbledore has to still be alive in the flesh. Only then can the truth about Snape be revealed to Harry--when there is no room for doubt. Harry just hates Snape too damn much to accept Snape having remained loyal to Dumbledore any other way. *

I think the series has been building steadily, doing an amazing job of developing multi-layered, complex characters. And I think ultimately Snape will play a major part of Harry's victory. In fact I think in the end it will be Snape who saves Harry's life and in the process it will be Snape, not Harry, who kills Voldemort.

BTW, great that we can discuss Harry Potter on a Lost site!


I pray that you are right about both DD and Snape. BUT, I felt the same about Sirius - knowing that he just couldn't be dead, yet there was no mention of hope for his return in this book. So I am thinking now, that some things are permanent. Death being one of them. And as painful as it may be to accept, perhaps that is all part of the lesson/end result. Like Dumbledore said, Harry would not have felt such a need for revenge against Voldemort had he not murdered his parents. The death of Dumbledore only contributes to Harry's already growing desire to end the battle once and for all.
As far as Snape is concerned, I am leaning towards the theory that his is still good. Even in the battle at the end, he didn't kill anyone (other than Dumbledore) or aid in the fight. I have to believe that he is part of a plan, pre-arranged with Dumbledore to save Draco and set the wheels in motion for Harry. So I hope..........

ok. 2 random questions.... What's that hand thing that they talk about Draco having??

And what ever happened to that mirror that Sirius gave Harry?? Maybe that will play into book 7....

ok. 2 random questions.... What's that hand thing that they talk about Draco having??


Hand Of Glory ... Malfoy bought it at Borgin and Burkes. When he uses it, it gives light to him, but no one else can see the light.


And what ever happened to that mirror that Sirius gave Harry?? Maybe that will play into book 7....

I suspect Harry still has it somewhere, but he may have forgotten about it since it was Sirius who had the second mirror, but he is dead now, so there is no one to talk with. And yes, somehow it could come back into book 7, but it wouldn't be anything major

Thanks ;D ;D

And what ever happened to that mirror that Sirius gave Harry??* Maybe that will play into book 7....


I think Harry smashed the mirror In Order of the Phoenix. He took it out of the trunk and
thought he would be able to talk to Sirius and then smashed the mirror ,when he realized
he couldn't. He might have used the Reparo spell to restore the mirror, but that is not in
the book.

God, I've forgot so much from OoP. I think I have to go back and re-read that one. Arg! I should have re-read it before HBP came out.

1. Do you think Hogwarts will close?
No, as Dumbledore said, it houses a lot of very old and powerful magic and that would be pretty useful in the upcoming battle.

2. Do you believe that Harry will let Ron and Hermione come with him through his adventures ?
Yes, Dumbledore spent a lot of time trying to impress on Harry that what makes him very different than LV was that Harry had friends where LV did not.

3. Do you think they will really WANT to? *( Its NEWT year! )
Yes, nothing says they can't go back to school and finish it out once they take care of business.

4. Do you think Dumbledore will come back, somehow, someway, into the book?
Yes, I think it will be a bit like Gandalf in the LOTRs. *He really died but was sent back to help the hero complete his task, then it was time for him to leave again. *Although the fact that he was entombed by the lake has a very Excalibur/Lady of the Lake feel to it. *Wonder if something will be made of that. *Also something that Scrimgeour said kind of seals it for me. *He said something to the effect of "even Dumbledore cannot return from the..." and every time a character in a book or TV show says that a main character can't possibly do something grand like that, they always end up doing it.

5. Do you sincerely believe Dumbledore is dead?
Yep, I don't think it was part of a plan between him and Snape per say. *I think Dumbledore made Snape promise to protect Draco's innocence at all costs and keep the student's souls in tact. *He did make a point of saying that a soul was a very important thing and should not be broken for any reason. *

6. Do you believe RAB = Sirius' brother, Regulus ?
Sounds logical

7. If you answered yes to question 6, do you think he got more then 1 Horcrux?
No but possible knew what the others were and where to find them. *There has to be an "easy" way for Harry to track down them all and know what to do with them so that it all will fit in one book along with the big final battle and denouement.

8. Do you believe he had time to destroy them?
No. *If they were destroyed, the 7th book would be kind of empty. :)

9. Do you think that Voldemort *knew Regulus found out about the Horcruxes?
No, he didn't think anyone was a smart as gifted as he was so how would they even come close to his horcruxes.

10. Do you think Rufus Scrimgeour will remain the Minister for Magic?
Probably.

11. Do you believe more then one human will die in book 7? If so, who?
Ya, probably Percy as part of his redemption. *Possibly everyone will die for a little while at least except for Harry, see the next question for the reasoning on that one.

12. Do you believe the final confrontation will consist of Harry/Voldemort, or Ron Hermione, *members of the Order, *etc., etc. ?
For the final battle it will be Harry vs. LV one on one. *But I do see a scenario along the lines of a Sailor Moon ep I saw. *In the ep all of the scouts had been killed and it was down to her and the bad guy. *She says something like she gets her power from the love of her friends and then around her helping her hold her scepter her friends start appearing one by one putting their hands on hers to give the extra power she needs to finish things. *(Of course they never explained how they all came back from the dead but the all did. :)) That would also go long with the theme of this book that Harry's real power is love and friendship even if he has to stand alone, they will always be with him.

12. Do you believe the final confrontation will consist of Harry/Voldemort, or Ron Hermione, members of the Order, etc., etc. ?
For the final battle it will be Harry vs. LV one on one. But I do see a scenario along the lines of a Sailor Moon ep I saw. In the ep all of the scouts had been killed and it was down to her and the bad guy. She says something like she gets her power from the love of her friends and then around her helping her hold her scepter her friends start appearing one by one putting their hands on hers to give the extra power she needs to finish things. (Of course they never explained how they all came back from the dead but the all did. :)) That would also go long with the theme of this book that Harry's real power is love and friendship even if he has to stand alone, they will always be with him.


That's an interesting idea. It kind of reminds me of the Buffy episode where Buffy, Willow, Zander, and Giles did the joining spell to defeat Adam. Actually now that I think about it, there are a lot of parallells between Harry Potter and Buffy.

I dont know if anyone has brought this up before, but doesn't it seem strange that the house elves can apparate inside of Hogwarts? I figure they travel by a different kind of magic the wizarding world doesn't understand, or they're a lot more powerful than anyone imagined! Dobby didn't have any problem knocking Lucius Malfoy on his can! :D

Now that the dementors have left Azkaban, the House elves may be the perfect replacement to guard the prison. Maybe more people will go along with Hermione - free the house elves &
give them the job of Azkaban guards!

I think I would more afraid if Dobby was my guard at Azkaban than any Dementer... :lol2:

Karri , thanks for answering my questions , i liked reading everyones answers, but you had a lot of fresh ideas that I haven't seen yet..

4. Do you think Dumbledore will come back, somehow, someway, into the book?
Yes, I think it will be a bit like Gandalf in the LOTRs. He really died but was sent back to help the hero complete his task, then it was time for him to leave again. Although the fact that he was entombed by the lake has a very Excalibur/Lady of the Lake feel to it. Wonder if something will be made of that. Also something that Scrimgeour said kind of seals it for me. He said something to the effect of "even Dumbledore cannot return from the..." and every time a character in a book or TV show says that a main character can't possibly do something grand like that, they always end up doing it.
Loved that answer! You are perfectly right when you said
He said something to the effect of "even Dumbledore cannot return from the..." and every time a character in a book or TV show says that a main character can't possibly do something grand like that, they always end up doing it


8. Do you believe he had time to destroy them?
No. If they were destroyed, the 7th book would be kind of empty.
Nice answer, I never really thought of it that way!


9. Do you think that Voldemort knew Regulus found out about the Horcruxes?
No, he didn't think anyone was a smart as gifted as he was so how would they even come close to his horcruxes.
Never thought of it that way .. that really is one of his flaws!

12. Do you believe the final confrontation will consist of Harry/Voldemort, or Ron Hermione, members of the Order, etc., etc. ?
For the final battle it will be Harry vs. LV one on one. But I do see a scenario along the lines of a Sailor Moon ep I saw. In the ep all of the scouts had been killed and it was down to her and the bad guy. She says something like she gets her power from the love of her friends and then around her helping her hold her scepter her friends start appearing one by one putting their hands on hers to give the extra power she needs to finish things. (Of course they never explained how they all came back from the dead but the all did. ) That would also go long with the theme of this book that Harry's real power is love and friendship even if he has to stand alone, they will always be with him.

Very interesting fresh new response :) I like it. I can see JK doing something similar to that!

I dont know if anyone has brought this up before, but doesn't it seem strange that the house elves can apparate inside of Hogwarts? I figure they travel by a different kind of magic the wizarding world doesn't understand, or they're a lot more powerful than anyone imagined!

I think whatever magic guards the non-apparating thing at Hogwart's doesnt apply to house elves.. That way they are able to get around so quickly and do all that stuff they need too...
but, they do seem to be fairly powerful.. magic iwthout wands and what not....

I think whatever magic guards the non-apparating thing at Hogwart's doesnt apply to house elves.. That way they are able to get around so quickly and do all that stuff they need too...
but, they do seem to be fairly powerful.. magic iwthout wands and what not....


May be thats why the Wizards turned them into servants? ;)

May be thats why the Wizards turned them into servants? ;)


haha. house elves take over in book 7.... I see it now. Dobby V. LV

haha.* house elves take over in book 7.... I see it now.* Dobby V.* LV


He can flap him to death with those big ears! :lol2:

hahahaha.. oh the visual :lol2:

and pelt him with Hermione's knitted hats

haha. house elves take over in book 7.... I see it now. Dobby V. LV


SWEET :party:


hahahaha.. oh the visual :lol2:

and pelt him with Hermione's knitted hats


:lol2:

Imagine it in sloomoo like the Matrix :lol2: :lol2: :lol2:

haha.* house elves take over in book 7.... I see it now.* Dobby V.* LV


On a different note, did it seem weird to anyone that Hermione forgot all about the plight of house elves in this book? I mean, Harry now even OWNS a house elf and Hermione didn't comment on it. Granted she was mostly occupied with Ron-related heartache but it still struck as out of character. Hermione's excellent at multi-tasking.

Karri , thanks for answering my questions , i liked reading everyones answers, but you had a lot of fresh ideas that I haven't seen yet..

Loved that answer! You are perfectly right when you said

Nice answer, I never really thought of it that way!

Never thought of it that way .. that really is one of his flaws!

Very interesting fresh new response :) I like it. I can see JK doing something similar to that!



Glad you liked. :) *I just finished the book last night (although I have been reading the thread since it opened. *Me=spoiler slut *:angel:) *I had ideas that I thought all along based on what everyone said about it but finishing it for myself really put twists on a few things. *So count down to book 7 starts when? *:lol2:

:lol2: :lol2: Ahhh that would be amazing ! :lol2:

I can just see LV dodging all th knitted hats in slowwwmoooo shouting " NOOOOOOOOO "


Glad you liked. :) I just finished the book last night (although I have been reading the thread since it opened. Me=spoiler slut :angel:) I had ideas that I thought all along based on what everyone said about it but finishing it for myself really put twists on a few things. So count down to book 7 starts when? :lol2:


I heard you got the UK edition, is it any different ?

:lol2: Hmm its like 2 years to go

Imagine it in sloomoo like the Matrix :lol2: :lol2: :lol2:


hahaha. I love it..


On a different note, did it seem weird to anyone that Hermione forgot all about the plight of house elves in this book? I mean, Harry now even OWNS a house elf and Hermione didn't comment on it. Granted she was mostly occupied with Ron-related heartache but it still struck as out of character. Hermione's excellent at multi-tasking.


You're right. It was kind of odd. Harry mentioned it more than she did.. When he thought about what she would say if she knew that Slughorn used house elves to check for poisen... Maybe she figured that if she harped on Harry about the house elves and the potions book, he would snap. She was choosing her battles.... Or maybe she figured she wasnt ever going to get support. Also freeing kreacher would lead to huge trouble, since he knew information about the Order...

I heard you got the UK edition, is it any different ?


A bit. Some of the wording is different, I think they Americanize some of the slang and stuff. The paper and binding seem nicer and I LOVE the cover on the adult editions. You can't tell from the pict on Amazon http://images-eu.amazon.com/images/P/074758110X.02.LZZZZZZZ.jpg but the cover has the beat up old copy of Advanced Potion making. I kind of miss the illustrations though.

A bit. Some of the wording is different, I think they Americanize some of the slang and stuff. The paper and binding seem nicer and I LOVE the cover on the adult editions. You can't tell from the pict on Amazon http://images-eu.amazon.com/images/P/074758110X.02.LZZZZZZZ.jpg but the cover has the beat up old copy of Advanced Potion making. I kind of miss the illustrations though.

Awesome :) All my books are the Childrens - illustration ones. I love them. They are all hardcover as well, except for the first book.

Theres actually 2 different illustration covers for the first book! I think I have the first one

I heard you got the UK edition, is it any different ?



I had the British version of OOTP I did not find that many differences in it mostly cultural references here and there that we would not get. Other than that I found it the same.

example UK. on eighty-five points
* * * * * * US. with eighty-five points

* * * * * * UK. they had their pudding
* * * * * * US. they had their homemade strawberry ice cream,

I had the British version of OOTP I did not find that many differences in it mostly cultural references here and there that we would not get. Other than that I found it the same.

example UK. on eighty-five points
US. with eighty-five points

UK. they had their pudding
US. they had their homemade strawberry ice cream,


Ohh, thanks for the comparison ;D

I heard JK or someone say thast they keep some of the UK "language" , like "fringe". We don't use fringe here, we use bangs, but they didn't change it

I like the UK stuff... Or at least the stuff they left in. If they used all American slang it woudl be odd... Plus, I get to learn fun new words.. haha

i agree, i learned what wotcher! means!
and i always have my british friends here who can tell me what a word means ;D

(from Rock Goddess) I think they'll find the Ravenclaw Horcrux in the Room of Requirement.

When Harry hid the HBP's potions book in there, he stuffed it in a wardrobe, then put a bust on top of it, so he could find it again in all the clutter. *On top of the bust, he placed a wig, and on the wig, he placed a tarnished tiara. *Just a hunch, but I think the tiara might be Ravenclaw's.

In the memory where Voldemort came to visit Dumbledore to ask for the DADA job, there was something off. *Dumbledore said that Voldemort knew that he would be refused the job, and inquired to his real purpose in travelling all the way to Hogwarts. *Voldemort never answered. *I believe that he used this meeting to gain entry to the castle, where he planted a Horcrux (possibly the tiara, maybe something else). *And what better place to hide a Horcrux than the "hidden stuff" room in the Room of Requirement? *It's so full of junk, some old, tarnished tiara wouldn't draw any attention at all (especially from students too busy hiding their own things), and it would also be protected by the enchantments around the school.
I liked this idea to start with, but since I've re-read the last part of the book, I'm thinking that this is even more plausible. *The reason is a comment that Molly Weasley made to soon-to-be-daughter-in-law, Fleur de la Couer. *Molly said that she would ask Aunt Muriel if they could use her 'goblin-wrought' tiara for Fleur & Bill's wedding. *We haven't had a whole lot of discussion of tiaras in these books. *So, to have 2 such references so close together late in this book seems less like coincidence, and more like a clue.

I think that the Ravenclaw Horcrux will somehow involve Luna Lovegood. She's really the only other significant Ravenclaw we've met apart from Cho Chang.

*Bad memory of Cho Chang at a certain cafe' in Hosmeade comes to mind* AHHHHH NOT CHO CHANG!!!! AHHHHH NOT AGAIN!!! *Runs out of the room in fear* :lol2:

I pray that you are right about both DD and Snape.* BUT, I felt the same about Sirius - knowing that he just couldn't be dead, yet there was no mention of hope for his return in this book.* So I am thinking now, that some things are permanent.* Death being one of them.* And as painful as it may be to accept, perhaps that is all part of the lesson/end result.* Like Dumbledore said, Harry would not have felt such a need for revenge against Voldemort had he not murdered his parents.* The death of Dumbledore only contributes to Harry's already growing desire to end the battle once and for all.*
As far as Snape is concerned, I am leaning towards the theory that his is still good.* Even in the battle at the end, he didn't kill anyone (other than Dumbledore) or aid in the fight.* I have to believe that he is part of a plan, pre-arranged with Dumbledore to save Draco and set the wheels in motion for Harry.* So I hope..........


I actually think the Sirius Black example works in favor of Dumbledore being alive. Sirius Black died and hasn't come back. heck, even Cedric Diggory died and didn't come back. If Dumbledore "dies" and then comes back to life, it won't feel as though Rowling has gone to that hackneyed comic book cliche too often--it will actually feel novel. Besides, it's the very fact that when her characters die they stay dead which makes it so surprising and unexpected if Dumbledore really is alive.

I liked this idea to start with, but since I've re-read the last part of the book, I'm thinking that this is even more plausible. The reason is a comment that Molly Weasley made to soon-to-be-daughter-in-law, Fleur de la Couer. Molly said that she would ask Aunt Muriel if they could use her 'goblin-wrought' tiara for Fleur & Bill's wedding. We haven't had a whole lot of discussion of tiaras in these books. So, to have 2 such references so close together late in this book seems less like coincidence, and more like a clue.

Thats interesting , and true that it is most likely a clue, but are you saying that "Aunt Muriel" is somehow related to Ravenclaw ???


I think that the Ravenclaw Horcrux will somehow involve Luna Lovegood. She's really the only other significant Ravenclaw we've met apart from Cho Chang.

Interesting! I can see JK writing Luna into the Ravenclaw-Horcrux part.

Interesting! I can see JK writing Luna into the Ravenclaw-Horcrux part.


And if not the Ravenclaw angle, then Luna's dad's rag paper could play into it somehow.

HORCRUXES : THE HIDDEN HORROR

Your teacups and step stools could harbor dangerous ancient magic ...

Oh Mr Lovegood...never met the man. But he seems fun!

And of course Dumbledore is back...his painting appeared in his old office! So he'll always be there somewhat. :)

Oh Mr Lovegood...never met the man. But he seems fun!


Yes, he seems like an older, male replica of Loony..oops, i mean.. Luna herself ;D

Thats interesting , and true that it is most likely a clue, but are you saying that "Aunt Muriel" is somehow related to Ravenclaw ???
Interesting! I can see JK writing Luna into the Ravenclaw-Horcrux part.


I also noticed the second mention of a tiara...that's what originally made me go back and re-read the Junkroom scene in Sectumsempra, and come up with the tiara horcrux idea.* I can't speak for patch, but I don't think this means Aunt Muriel is related to Ravenclaw...Molly obviously knows Aunt Muriel's tiara quite well (she probably wore it to her own wedding to Arthur, I'd bet) and therefore it wouldn't be stashed in the RoR.*

Personally I think Molly mentioning Aunt Muriel's goblin-wrought tiara is just a hint - something to make you remember the other tiara which Harry placed on top of the bust.* Until this book, I think it's safe to say a tiara has never been seen or mentioned in any HP book.* But in HBP, in the space of a few chapters, the word "tiara" came up twice.* I believe the one in the RoR, the "tarnished tiara" is Ravenclaw's....then we have Molly bringing up a tiara to Fleur, which harkens back to our memory of just reading about another tiara a short while ago.* It's a subtle clue, I think.

Oh, and on the subject of the two-way mirrors:* Harry did break the one Sirius gave him at the end of OotP - the threw it into his trunk and it shattered.* However, this mirror keeps getting brought up in interviews, and she always hedges around the answer.* Most recently it was brought up in the Mugglenet interview, and Jo gave a "no comment", she stayed silent about the possibilites....and that usually means something is going to happen, but she can't tell for fear of ruining the next book.* So I wouldn't count out the mirrors yet.* If something is totally out there and not relevent, she tends to just shoot it down (again, look at all the theories she debunked in that same interview.)* She also said Sirius's death would make more sense from a plot standpoint after book 7....so it's apparently going to have more of an impact that just making Harry realize he wants to go down fighting, instead of moping.

I had a thought....another crazy one, which isn't likely to happen.* Back when the PoA movie came out, Jo commented that there was something the director had included, or the way he shot a certain scene, that gave her chills, because she hadn't spoke to him about it, but did he it that way intuitively....she said it was a hint for the final books.* *I thought at the time in was the Lupin & Harry bridge scene.* But with all speculation about Harry being a Horcrux going around, I thought about it again...

In the movie, the dementors don't try to "kiss" Harry and Sirius like in the book...they seem to suck the soul out from above, there's no direct contact....it always annoyed me that they did it that way (ok, I just wanted to see an on-screen version of what a dementor's face looks like, and I felt cheated at the time).* But I've been thinking, if Harry's scar IS a horcrux (I'm not saying it is or isn't, this is just one of many theories)...this is on the idea that his soul is specifically encased in the dead tissue of the scar, not possessing the rest of Harry's body or soul, where it would've been already destroyed by his power of love )....Could a dementor possibly suck that bit of Voldemort's soul out of the Scar, in a manner like depicted in the PoA movie?

The biggest argument I have against Harry's scar being the last horcrux is that, if he had to sacrifice his life, it negates the bit about him having to kill LV.....LV can't die at the hand of Harry if Harry's already dead.* BUT...I've always thought there had to be a greater purpose for dementors than just floating around being creepy and spreading misery, that their soul-sucking thing would come into play in a bigger way than just a terror tactic of LV.* *It would be an interesting thing to happen...If a dementor could suck that piece of LV's soul out of Harry, and be banished before it could move on to devouring Harry's own soul, it would solve the problem.* The last horcruxed piece of Voldie's soul would be gone...and Harry would be left alive, his own soul intact, and de-horcruxed, free to finish him once and for all.

Told you it was crazy.* :laugh:* But I like it. I've actually had this theory since OotP, I always thought a bit of LV's soul was in Harry, even before we found out about horcruxes.* Mainly because of CoS - the bit where Dumbledore tells Harry that LV accidently put a bit of himself inside Harry when the AK backfired.* This way, I get to keep my horcrux-scar theory, AND Harry gets to live through the end.* It's sort of the best of both worlds.* ;)

~ RG

I love reading all that everyone has to say. Now I know what RAB stands for! I've been racking my brains to figure it out. Like someone else said, I definitely can NOT wait to see this book in film. It's going to be amazing. I'd say that this is now my favorite book of the series followed by my previous number 1, Goblet of Fire.

I'm still in shock (and it's been almost a week since I finished the book) that Dumbledore is dead. Like others have said, I don't think Snape is evil. My cousin and I were talking about him and we both think he's a good guy, but he just has to pretend to be a Death Eater.

I'm very, very excited to see more Ron and Hermione tension! There were always hints in the previous books, but now it's official. Actually, I wasn't too surprised by most of the "hook ups": Tonks and Lupin, Harry and Ginny. Oh, I was also quite surprised to see Fleur again! :lol2: I loved Ginny's nickname for her. I'm impressed that Fleur decided to stay with Bill after his injuries.

And Draco. He just got much more interesting, in my opinion. I've always thought that he was never into becoming a Death Eater as much as the rest of his family. Based on what we've seen in this book, I think he'll have a big impact in Book 7. I'm looking forward to both his and Snape's developments.

I can't wait to see how JK Rowling's going to set up the final book. My only disappointment was that the book wasn't longer, but I guess it's like that for effect and to leave the readers wanting more.

lostfan has given me an idea....after reading this, the 6th book, how would you rank ALL 6 of them....

my ranking is:
1.) HBP
2.) PoA
3.) OotP
4.) SS (or PS)
5.) GoF
6.) CoS

I also noticed the second mention of a tiara...that's what originally made me go back and re-read the Junkroom scene in Sectumsempra, and come up with the tiara horcrux idea. I can't speak for patch, but I don't think this means Aunt Muriel is related to Ravenclaw...Molly obviously knows Aunt Muriel's tiara quite well (she probably wore it to her own wedding to Arthur, I'd bet) and therefore it wouldn't be stashed in the RoR.

Personally I think Molly mentioning Aunt Muriel's goblin-wrought tiara is just a hint - something to make you remember the other tiara which Harry placed on top of the bust. Until this book, I think it's safe to say a tiara has never been seen or mentioned in any HP book. But in HBP, in the space of a few chapters, the word "tiara" came up twice. I believe the one in the RoR, the "tarnished tiara" is Ravenclaw's....then we have Molly bringing up a tiara to Fleur, which harkens back to our memory of just reading about another tiara a short while ago. It's a subtle clue, I think.

Oh, and on the subject of the two-way mirrors: Harry did break the one Sirius gave him at the end of OotP - the threw it into his trunk and it shattered. However, this mirror keeps getting brought up in interviews, and she always hedges around the answer. Most recently it was brought up in the Mugglenet interview, and Jo gave a "no comment", she stayed silent about the possibilites....and that usually means something is going to happen, but she can't tell for fear of ruining the next book. So I wouldn't count out the mirrors yet. If something is totally out there and not relevent, she tends to just shoot it down (again, look at all the theories she debunked in that same interview.) She also said Sirius's death would make more sense from a plot standpoint after book 7....so it's apparently going to have more of an impact that just making Harry realize he wants to go down fighting, instead of moping.

I had a thought....another crazy one, which isn't likely to happen. Back when the PoA movie came out, Jo commented that there was something the director had included, or the way he shot a certain scene, that gave her chills, because she hadn't spoke to him about it, but did he it that way intuitively....she said it was a hint for the final books. I thought at the time in was the Lupin & Harry bridge scene. But with all speculation about Harry being a Horcrux going around, I thought about it again...

In the movie, the dementors don't try to "kiss" Harry and Sirius like in the book...they seem to suck the soul out from above, there's no direct contact....it always annoyed me that they did it that way (ok, I just wanted to see an on-screen version of what a dementor's face looks like, and I felt cheated at the time). But I've been thinking, if Harry's scar IS a horcrux (I'm not saying it is or isn't, this is just one of many theories)...this is on the idea that his soul is specifically encased in the dead tissue of the scar, not possessing the rest of Harry's body or soul, where it would've been already destroyed by his power of love )....Could a dementor possibly suck that bit of Voldemort's soul out of the Scar, in a manner like depicted in the PoA movie?

The biggest argument I have against Harry's scar being the last horcrux is that, if he had to sacrifice his life, it negates the bit about him having to kill LV.....LV can't die at the hand of Harry if Harry's already dead. BUT...I've always thought there had to be a greater purpose for dementors than just floating around being creepy and spreading misery, that their soul-sucking thing would come into play in a bigger way than just a terror tactic of LV. It would be an interesting thing to happen...If a dementor could suck that piece of LV's soul out of Harry, and be banished before it could move on to devouring Harry's own soul, it would solve the problem. The last horcruxed piece of Voldie's soul would be gone...and Harry would be left alive, his own soul intact, and de-horcruxed, free to finish him once and for all.

Told you it was crazy. :laugh: But I like it. I've actually had this theory since OotP, I always thought a bit of LV's soul was in Harry, even before we found out about horcruxes. Mainly because of CoS - the bit where Dumbledore tells Harry that LV accidently put a bit of himself inside Harry when the AK backfired. This way, I get to keep my horcrux-scar theory, AND Harry gets to live through the end. It's sort of the best of both worlds. ;)

~ RG

Thanks for the explanation :)

I also was trying to figure out what that scene was, and thats a very good theory of yours, good job !


lostfan has given me an idea....after reading this, the 6th book, how would you rank ALL 6 of them....

my ranking is:
1.) HBP
2.) PoA
3.) OotP
4.) SS (or PS)
5.) GoF
6.) CoS


1) OotP
2) GoF
3) HBP
4) PS
5) PoA
5)CoS

Not that I don't like CoS or anything, I absolutely love them all, but I enjoyed that one just a bit less, you know?

Heres my rankings.

1. OotP
2. HBP
3. GOF
4. POA
5. COS
1. PS

Hey here's a thought....

What if Snape is Harry's father?

Snape was good a potions... there was a lot of talk about love potions in this book.

What if Snape used a potion on Lily (whatever her last name was before Potter)

One wild night later, oops she's pregnant.

Hey here's a thought....

What if Snape is Harry's father?

Snape was good a potions... there was a lot of talk about love potions in this book.

What if Snape used a potion on Lily (whatever her last name was before Potter)

One wild night later, oops she's pregnant.



Whoa. Far out. I don't think theres a chance for that though. Why would he loathe his own son?

1- POA
2- OOTP
3- SS
4- GOF
5- COS
6- HBP

love your theories Rock Goddess :)

My favorites
1 Prisoner of Azkaban
2 Order of the Phoenix
3 Half Blood Prince
4 Goblet of Fire
5 Chamber of Secrets
6 Sorcerer's Stone

Thank you to whoever posted the link to mugglenet it is a great Harry Potter site. :)

i agree, i learned what wotcher! means!


I was searching like crazy trying to find that out and I couldn't. What does it mean?

1. HBP
2. GoF
3. OotP
4. PoA
5. SS
6. CoS

I'll rank the rest of the books:

1. HBP
2. GOF
3. OOP
4.POA
5. SS
6. COS

Whoa. Far out. I don't think theres a chance for that though. Why would he loathe his own son?


what if he didn't know he existed.....BUT they are always saying he has an UNCANNY reseblance to his father, and i DON'T think James Potter and Severus Snape look alike...

1. PoA
2. HBP
3. GoF
4. OotP
5. SS
6. CoS

I don't think there's much chance of Snape being Harry's father. A while back there was a theory going around that Snape might've been Lily Evans's half-brother though. When you do Severus Snape as an anagram, you get "Perseus Evans." I still don't think it's true, though.

However, if you want to speculate about Snape's family, here's a theory I've seen floating around since the release of HBP....Time for RG's crazy theory of the day. :laugh:

They waited, and a moment later the vulturelike countenance of Madam Pince appeared around the corner, her sunken cheeks, her skin like parchment, and her long hooked nose illuminated unflatteringly by the lamp she was carrying.

"The library is now closed," she said. "Mind you return anything you have borrowed to the correct -- what have you been doing to that book, you depraved boy?" HBP

Madam Pince's physical description is quite a lot like Snape's....hooked nose, sallow skinned, etc. Of course, plenty of characters in the series have been described with these attributes as well.

Also, in the Spinners End chapter, the walls of Snape's house are entirely covered in books - and Madam Pince obviously obsesses over books too. But, if you use her name as an anagram, you come up with the most interesting hint - or red herring, since this could be totally wrong...."Irma Prince" translates to "I'm a Prince." And Snape's mother's name was Eileen Prince. And she would've been at Hogwarts at the same time as Voldemort.

Could Madam Pince really be a member of the Prince family...Snape's mother, or an aunt, etc. We know that his mom married a muggle, Tobias Snape. If she had been an acquaintance of LV, then fell in love with a muggle, I could see her adopting a new name and hiding out at Hogwarts, to keep herself from becoming one of LV's targets. Add to that the quote from above....Madam Pince obviously hates anyone marking in books. But perhaps she actually recognized the HBP's copy of advanced potion-making....the date in the book was 50 years previous, it would've been a hand-me-down that Snape got from his mother.

Again, I doubt this would be true, but it's something fun to think about. :)

~ RG

1. GOF
2. POA
3. HBP
4. OOTP
5. COS
6. SS

I don't think that Snape could be Harry's father, I want to say I read somewhere that JKR said that nothing like an affair or one night stand thing would be happening.... But I could be remembering wrong...

JK Rowling did say in the Mugglenet interview, that Snape has been loved by someone. I wonder who loved him...hmm.... :-\

She also didn't answer them when they asked if there was anyone else in Godric's Hollow the night Harry's parents were killed...

So where does everyone think the last horcrux is? Personally I think its either Harry or I know its probaly wrong but Hogwarts since Tom loved it so much. How big can a horcrux be?

Also I dont personaly think that Regulas is dead. Do you remember in OotP when Harry was on the train and he saw the article in the Quibler about Sirius. I think that it may have actually been Regulas posing as (I dont have the copy of the book with me so I cant remember who the guy called himself). A death eater was probaly assigned to kill him but he got away and the death eater was probaly to scared to tell Voldemort the truth and hoped on Regulas to go into hiding. But then again unless the death eater was good at occulmency Voldemort would have figure it out unless he never really checked into it. I really believe that the locket at 12 Grimauld Place is a Horcrux and that Regulas failed in destroying it. My brains working over time ???