Was Locke special?

[Flying Tiger Comics]

In reference to the conman versus wizard ie the being told lies versus truth and miracles, it's very much like the Magician card in the Tarot- with the Magus who performs "real" magic versus the reverse meaning of the Charlatan who is an illusionist.

Also the inner meaning of the Magician card - belief can make the charlatan's tricks become reality, and disbelief can destroy the real magic of the magus.

LOST itself is like that.

To paraphrase Henry Ford, whether you think LOST is wonderful or terrible- you're right.

[Bicklefitch]

Originally Posted by Sam G

Hi Flying Tiger Comics. Welcome to the Fuselage.

I'll echo that. It's nice to see some fresh faces still showing up.

Originally Posted by sgtdraino

Why is Locke being special so hard for some people to accept?

I'm going to go out on a limb and assume this is not a rhetorical question . I guess the best way I can explain it is to first admit that the lens through which I view LOST is filtered by my own experience, and by a fair amount of reading between the lines (if it weren't, I would have grown bored with this stuff long ago). I've got no problem with anyone who takes "special" at face value (i.e., "Locke is special because he was perceived as special by key characters"). But Darlton loved to turn an initial perception on its ear, and, given the ending they chose, I think a case can be made that they intended us to question whether John was special, at least in the way we were led to believe during the first five seasons.

Richard and Ben perceived Locke to be special because they believed he possessed traits or qualities which, in and of themselves, would make him a better fit to be leader of the Others. But the very fact that John ended up getting conned so thoroughly by the MiB is evidence, in my opinion, that Richard may not have been quite up to snuff with the whole Panchen Lama thing. I just finished re-watching Not In Portland, and this exchange between Richard and Juliet, as he was making his pitch for Mittelos Bioscience, may also shed some light on Richard's perception of what it takes to be "special"...

JULIET: Look, when you - your company - reached out to me, I was flattered. But I don't really know why you would want me.

ALPERT: Is it true that you successfully impregnated a male field mouse?

JULIET: He didn't carry to term.

ALPERT (after showing her the slide of the abnormally aging uterus): We think you're special, Dr. Burke, and we want you to lead a team of highly trained people, because we think you're just that good.

JULIET (after making her remark about Edwin and the bus): No, I'm sorry. Whatever you think I am, I'm not. I'm not a leader, Mr. Alpert. I'm a mess.

If special, for Juliet, meant being equipped to solve the island's pregnancy problems through sheer brilliance and hard work, then she was no more special than John was, as leader of the Others. In a way, however, Juliet did end up being "special", in the same way John did, and, IMO, it had nothing to do with a particular talent or inherent characteristic. She eventually found her inner leader only when she learned to let go of some of the baggage she brought with her to the island.

Originally Posted by Devera

I kind of like the argument that Locke is special in the sense that he is a candidate and a key character on the show, but I don't think there's anything really productive in arguing that Locke is "more special" or "less special" than some of the other main characters.

Hey, Dev . This is my thought, as well. LOST's central message, IMO, was summed up pretty well by Jack's "live together or die alone" speech early on in season one. Each of the lostaways arrived on the island with strengths and weaknesses, but, really, more broken than special. And, like many (most?) of us, they struggled with humility (the ability to see themselves as "right sized"). It's not that they didn't have "special" qualities, but that they were poorly equipped to see themselves as they truly were. And until they figured out how to look at the true image of themselves, as reflected in the "mirror" of those who cared for them, they were each (not just Locke) at risk of being amenable for coercion.

In John's case, the blinders were up from the moment he arrived on the island. His need to be "special" (in the way Richard and Ben believed him to be) prevented him from seeing himself as "right sized", at least until his eyes were opened in the afterlife. The irony is that I don't think John ever fully bought in to the idea that he was special. But at some level he needed it to be true, given his fear of abandonment. And, as was his m.o., the MiB used this fear to his advantage

Originally Posted by Devera

As to the corresponding question about whether the Island is sentient or not, the writers consistently refer to the Island as a character to the extreme that they make it sound like the Island is a person with wills and ideas of his/her/its own and other times it is described just as a location. I can search for some examples if people are interested.We could start a new thread for it.

That's a great idea. I'll try to get a thread up if you don't (I'm not quite sure where to put it, though).

Originally Posted by Flying Tiger Comics

LOST itself is like that.

To paraphrase Henry Ford, whether you think LOST is wonderful or terrible- you're right.

A good quote to remember in the heat of an opinionated LOST discussion .

[Devera]

Originally Posted by Bicklefitch

Hey, Dev .

Hey Bickle!

Originally Posted by Bicklefitch

This is my thought, as well. LOST's central message, IMO, was summed up pretty well by Jack's "live together or die alone" speech early on in season one. Each of the lostaways arrived on the island with strengths and weaknesses, but, really, more broken than special. And, like many (most?) of us, they struggled with humility (the ability to see themselves as "right sized"). It's not that they didn't have "special" qualities, but that they were poorly equipped to see themselves as they truly were. And until they figured out how to look at the true image of themselves, as reflected in the "mirror" of those who cared for them, they were each (not just Locke) at risk of being amenable for coercion.

Exactly, they each have something to offer that could help each other or vulnerabilities that could be manipulated by outside forces.

That's a great idea. I'll try to get a thread up if you don't (I'm not quite sure where to put it, though).

Maybe Lost theories or Lost talk would be an appropriate venue to discuss the character of the island and what that means?

A good quote to remember in the heat of an opinionated LOST discussion .

Yes.