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Lost General Theories Theories based on things that HAVE happened on the actual eps of Lost. No spoiler info is to be posted here.


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Old 01-23-2006, 05:22 PM   #51
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Re: Theory - The Third Policeman

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Originally Posted by Jed View Post
Fascinating idea. That one is all yours... *I* never thought of that.

Omnium... hmmm. I just laughed at the thought when I read it and never thought it would have anything to do with the smoke. You could be right.

My first interpretation of omnium (means: everything-substance) was that it was just that.... everything. So coal isn't made of carbon... it's made of omnium in the form of carbon.

Your interpretation I guess is based on "But it shows itself in a million ways and it always comes in waves...Some people call it God". Very interesting thought.

Good work.
What do you all make of this quote from The Third Policeman?

"Sitting at home with my box of omnium I could do anything, see anything, and know everything with no limit to my powers save that of my own imagination. Perhaps I could use it to extend my imagination. I could destroy, alter and improve the universe at will."





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...on earth, as it is in heaven

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Old 01-24-2006, 01:21 PM   #52
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Re: Theory - The Third Policeman

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Originally Posted by AquarianStella View Post
What do you all make of this quote from The Third Policeman?

"Sitting at home with my box of omnium I could do anything, see anything, and know everything with no limit to my powers save that of my own imagination. Perhaps I could use it to extend my imagination. I could destroy, alter and improve the universe at will."
When I read that in the book, it made me think of Hanso. We don't really know much about him but from that shot of him in the building's window ... looking all high and mighty as he looks down his nose at the "little people" below him, he looks like he could be very "power hungry."
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Old 01-25-2006, 12:59 AM   #53
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Re: Theory - The Third Policeman

It makes me think of Anthony Cooper as well as Hanso. Both of them seem power hungry to me.

Here are some of my thoughts on the book. I'm still reading it, so I'll be adding to this as I get farther into it.
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Old 01-25-2006, 01:19 AM   #54
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Re: Theory - The Third Policeman

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Originally Posted by AquarianStella View Post
" I could destroy, alter and improve the universe at will."
Sounds to me like Walt. Maybe his powers are not defined and within his control....yet.
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Old 01-25-2006, 09:21 AM   #55
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Re: Theory - The Third Policeman

i finished reading it about a week ago, i dont think anything can be too deeply read into it.

firstly can i say i loved the book from start to finish. it was brilliantly creative, funny and hideous. the whole De Selby stuff was a stroke of genius, im glad the powers that be recommended it.

all i can think of was that it may have given a major clue as to what was down the hatch if it was read before we knew what was down there. some unknown device that must be monitered or all hell breaks loose, a device/ joke created by another person.

apart from that i thought that maybe Hanso and whoever were doing some crazy experiments in line with De Selby, trying to make light out of sounds, and the like.
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Old 01-25-2006, 04:47 PM   #56
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Re: Theory - The Third Policeman

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Originally Posted by jbdean View Post
When I read that in the book, it made me think of Hanso. We don't really know much about him but from that shot of him in the building's window ... looking all high and mighty as he looks down his nose at the "little people" below him, he looks like he could be very "power hungry."
I agree. Now the question (assuming we can relate this quote to Hanso's involvement): Is Hanso attempting to "destroy, alter and improve the universe at will." ? Does he want to destroy the universe? Alter the universe? Or improve the universe? OR does he want to destroy the known universe, do some alterations, and then create an improved universe???

Maybe I'm off on a wild tangent. Maybe I just need a dose of a new episode tonight...





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Old 01-25-2006, 07:55 PM   #57
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Re: Theory - The Third Policeman

Quote:
Originally Posted by AquarianStella View Post
I agree. Now the question (assuming we can relate this quote to Hanso's involvement): Is Hanso attempting to "destroy, alter and improve the universe at will." ? Does he want to destroy the universe? Alter the universe? Or improve the universe? OR does he want to destroy the known universe, do some alterations, and then create an improved universe???

Maybe I'm off on a wild tangent. Maybe I just need a dose of a new episode tonight...
I like the idea and the relation. He definitely has some sort of Machivaelian plan up his sleeve. Maybe hes a symbolic devil. In a small parallel to TTP if we took that elevator ride deeper into hell and met the devil himself, would you consider him Hanso? I personally consider the islands setting the parish and at the heart of Hansos secrecy in the real world.
I think we just need our lostaways to come to terms with thier own destinies in order to fulfill whatever part they have to play. Maybe thats what Lockes destiny was, to help the others come to terms and to open doors for them to enter. In order to fulfill it the island gave him the use of his legs immeadiately because it was essential.







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Old 01-25-2006, 07:59 PM   #58
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Re: Theory - The Third Policeman

I just posted this in the transhumanism thread and thought it applies here also:

We feel for our losties - which maybe causes us to play down their crimes in our analysis of them. Example: I like Sawyer - his smartass sassy remarks are great... So I like him - but he did kill Frank Duckett. Whatever the circumstance, the choice was utlimately his and he chose to commit murder. Why am I rooting for him?

That kind of perception reminds me of the townsfolk in the pre-parish world of The Third Policeman. The townsfolk think that the characters Divney and the Narrator are "the best two christians in all of Ireland" because of their close friendship. Neither is without the company of the other. They are always together and the townsfolk perceive this as a testament to their deep friendship. The reality of the situation is Divney and our Narrator have a deep mistrust of each other. They will not allow one to be without the other as a result. The townsfolk erroneously perceive them as "good" - when the reality is that they are "bad".

Maybe that is the parallel to the book - are we like the pre-parish townfolk in TTP - Do we have the wrong perception of our losties and the others?
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Old 01-27-2006, 11:17 AM   #59
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Re: Theory - The Third Policeman

Thats very true Punky...nice one. O'Nolan seems to make a mockery of public opinion in the pre parish world. They saw old mathers as a "queer mean man" and as you said Divney and the narrator as "the best 2 christians".

If we the general public can mistake 2 double crossing murderers for loving best friends, what else is O Nolan proposing we misread.

Somehow after the fire + water episode I think this element of the book is reflected most. Sheesh our timing is perfect lol. Although in TTP ONolan does give us the pervading feeling that whatever we might assume about a character its tinged with the worst possible scenario.

Charlie is being seen by the general group as gone off the deep end. In this scenario our Charlie is being villified and outcast. They see him in the worst possible light and true to form we know there perception is lacking and they are misreading his situation, seeing only the worst.

Is it also a possible reference as to how the dreams affecting Charlie and the normality that the survivors are trying to maintain definitely do not mix. You couldnt try to begin to lead a normal life in the parish, thats ridiculous. So how could they or we begin to think they should try to settle in on the island (parish) and create something normal.

This in some way begins to answer the question that maybe they are there for a reason and those who are having these dreams and experiencing the islands mysteries are closer to that design then the others, or have a more important role to play.

Requires more thinking.Ouch lol.







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Old 01-30-2006, 07:28 AM   #60
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Re: Theory - The Third Policeman

Hi, and first let me say I would like to become a mythology hunter, please!
I've studied a lot of the subjects involved at one time or another. It's been about 15 years since I read Augustine, but I wouldn't mind brushing up on Manicheism.

RE 3P, read that about 15 years ago as well, think it's an amazing work, and I was thrilled the LOST team used it. So I read it again. The problem with figuring out what they're going for isn't finding something that could be relevant, more that so much could be relevant, how to know what element?

Of the themes posted here, most occurred to me as I read it, so good, it looks like a lot of us see the same stuff. I enjoyed this thread a lot, lots of stuff to make me think, now I'll throw out some bits and pieces I've been mulling over:

1) not sure if someone mentioned this:

The Two Policeman, with their serious attention to the "readings" in their underground Eternity, and their constant monitoring, can't help but remind me of Desmond and the Losties monitoring the computer and responding to the alarm.

The two Sergeant's give the impression that the world might come to an end if they don't make it a priority to keep the readings within range, as does Desmond re not pushing the button. They are diverted from the hanging over such an alarm.

Then at the end you find out that "Fox" is basically yanking their chain by making the readings fluctuate with his "omnium" from the black box. In retrospect, the very serious tour the 3P narrator was given of the Eternity underground turns out to be not what he thought was going on, nor did his guides know the truth. Point being that the hatch and button set-up may be serious to Desmond and the Losties but a manipulation by a third party ... which has always been a possibility, as Desmond and Jack discussed.

Quote of possible interest:
"he had been sitting in this room presiding at four ounces of this unutterable substance, calmly making ribbons of the natural order, inventing intricate and unheard of machinery to delude the other policemen, interfering drastically with time to make them think they had been leading their magical lives for years, bewildering, horrifying, and enchanting the whole countryside."

2) Re "answers" and "easter eggs"
The narrator (as with our Losties, we sympathize with him even though a murderer, as has been noted, and that seems important)--spends most of the story trying to figure out WTF is going on. He has crashed and now all the rules have changed, and he keeps getting weird information and bizarre explanations that he keeps assimilating into his view of reality. No matter how weird it is, he eventually accepts it.

The answers come like nested boxes,.. each time he gets an answer his former understanding is called into question so he throws out one set of "assumptions" and embraces another, which is then shattered--and finally, when it seems it gets the ultimate explanation from Policeman Fox and is off to his home to find his omnium, the essence of everything ... he learns he is dead (yes I know the writers have confirmed the "dead" part is not what they are going for): this has the interesting effect of making every single thing he learned in the course of his search for answers rather pointless.

Which in turn, completely tweaks the reader of 3P who has been collecting answers, or trying to. One ends up with as much "useful" information as someone who spends his whole life trying to track down the life and work of deSelby (the fake commentators impersonating each other are the best). In the end, the value of the story is in the entertainment value of the journey and not about conclusion, or answers.

3) Re Guilt and "karma":
there is one lesson the narrator does seem to learn. He has spent the whole story trying to avoid the consequences of his crime and hoping that he's getting away with it. He keeps thinking he is caught (first by Mathers) and then he thinks he's OK. Then he is to be hung for a crime he didn't do and he feels righteous about trying to avoid that, although he deserves to be hung for the original crime ... then he thinks he finally escapes and what's more will be lord of the universe with his omnium. In the end he finds out he never got away with it for a second and never will. So that too could apply to the Losties.

4) Eccentric physicists:
This has been noted but I want to agree that there's an analogy between the deGroots and deSelby-what exactly if anything that means for Lost I don't know, but their experiments on the film have a somewhat absurd quality and we hear that deSelby was a great experimenter and was even arrested, sued, and hoarded water, etc.. lots of trouble as a result of his bizarre activities.

5) Is this how we'll feel when we solve the mystery of the island?

"Like everything that is hard to believe and difficult to comprehend ... it is very simple ...
"It did not look simple--what I saw."
"You thought there was magic in it, not to mention monkey-work of no mean order?
"I did"
"But it can all be explained, it was very simple and the way it was all worked will astonish you when I tell you."
_________________

6) Re 23 and 3P: did someone list the occurences? You know that lists of "23" that preceded LOST already mentioned it was an important number in 3P, right? Well, the ones I found:

On the 23rd of June Fox looked in MacKruiskeen's box and saw a color that doesn't exist. He also talked to Sgt MacKruiskeen on that day and supposedly went mad.
Nov 23: Sgt. Pluck had a nightmare and dreamed of a "slow puncture."
O'Feersa is 23% bicycle and his bicycle is 23% O'Feersa.
The most important day in the narrator's life comes when he is 16, and is on the 7th. 16 + 7 =23.

A symbolic 23? For most of the book you see 2 Policemen. The 3rd is a rumor. Then you meet the Third Policeman. So 2 becomes 3.

23 is a juxtaposition of duality (2) with trinity (3), Matter and Spirit. The third element of the Trinity is the Holy Ghost, which may be analogous to the elusive Third Policeman in a comic sort of way.

I suggest this because Joyce played with the 2/3 symbolism in Ulysses so it's not farfetched for another Irish writer to be playing around with the dualism/trinity theme.

And I think that's much more than twice enough for one post.





"If there's no meaning in it ... that saves a world of trouble, you know, as we needn't try to find any."
~ Alice in Wonderland

Last edited by OFG; 01-30-2006 at 08:23 PM.
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