'Where' will the island be the next time we see it?

[Pelegrin_1]

Could the island have actually been moved both temporally and spatially? We kind of know that the potential for TT exists on the island, since it appears that at least Richard has used it, though there are many other suggestions of it. However, what Ben did when he moved the island was apparently something very different. We know that Ben showed up next in Tunisia, and in October 2005 not December 2004, 10 months into the future. But since the island was moved also, is it possible that the next time we see the island it will be in a totally different location?

Imagine the island being somewhere in the Berring Sea, or the Indian Ocean, or someone here has suggested the island has always been, Bioko island off the west coast of Africa.
Or perhaps it could end up, somehow, in the middle of the Himalayas... The Lost Horizon.

Where do you think the island will be? Somewhere else, or in the same location only at a different time?

Perhaps polar bears had never been brought to the island, but that the island had at one time been in an Arctic location, and a couple of polar bears had crossed an ice flow and ended up on the island. And then when the island was moved it took the bears with it.

[Richardstone]

Originally Posted by Pelegrin_1

Could the island have actually been moved both temporally and spatially?

IMO no, it's attached to the Earth's crust, I don't think it can be moved geographically myself.

We kind of know that the potential for TT exists on the island, since it appears that at least Richard has used it, though there are many other suggestions of it. However, what Ben did when he moved the island was apparently something very different. We know that Ben showed up next in Tunisia, and in October 2005 not December 2004, 10 months into the future. But since the island was moved also, is it possible that the next time we see the island it will be in a totally different location?

I think it will be where it has always been, it may be more difficult to find, although, it's not as if it was easy to find before, and of course you could argue that the only people who find it are the people who The Island wants or needs to find it.

Originally Posted by Richard Muller

To make physics sense of the movement of the island in Lost, I assume that the island is actually connected to the South Pacific by a wormhole-like warp in space-time. (It doesn't have to be a simple worm hole; it could be a warren of parallel and intersecting tubes.) Then, to move the island, all you have to do is move the wormhole connection, not the island itself. That's what I think Ben did. He changed the nature of the space-time connection between the island and the rest of the world.

So the island didn't disappear. It didn't even move. Imagine that you are visiting a small town that you used to visit when you were young. You drive for miles, and never come to it. But it turns out the town has not moved. Rather, the highway now goes around it. That's what Ben did—he changed the highway.

Popular Mechanics - Einstein Would Approve

Imagine the island being somewhere in the Berring Sea, or the Indian Ocean, or someone here has suggested the island has always been, Bioko island off the west coast of Africa.
Or perhaps it could end up, somehow, in the middle of the Himalayas... The Lost Horizon.

If it does then was it ever really an Island?

Where do you think the island will be? Somewhere else, or in the same location only at a different time?

Same place, different time, I think The Island would have lost the same ammount of time as Ben (Mittelos), perhaps they would both exit the wormhole simultaneously at opposite ends? I think (though I'm not sure) Ben came out at the antipode to The Island?

[What Would Jeff Do]

Personally, I think that it moved in space, and quite possibly in time. And honestly, I dont have any good theories as to when and where. Although I do think that although several years have passed for the Oceanic Six, they will meet up with the remaining islanders soon after the island moved, from the islanders' perspective.

Was Richard time traveling? If so, how? I still think he has a prolonged lifespan, probably due to the island.

And are we still questioning polar bears? I thought it was pretty much settled that DHARMA brought them their for their tests.

[Richardstone]

Originally Posted by What Would Jeff Do

Was Richard time traveling? If so, how?

I think the it might be in the same way Daniel's rocket or Doc Ray's corpse did, by following a certain bearing and using the temporal distortion.

It seems unlikely that The DHARMA Initiative would have had only the one submarine, and even less so that Ben would've manipulated Locke into blowing up the Galaga if it were truly unique. And seeing as they had the sense of humour to call one the Galaga I'm hoping that they might have had a Galaxian and a Gaplus too, and if so then it's on those that I think Richard is able to time travel, he could leave The Island on a bearing that meant he departed in 2004 and arrived in the USA in the 1950's or whenever, and then do the reverse on return.

I think this may also be why Juliet was drugged and warned that it would be a "bumpy ride" when she first came to The Island.

I still think he has a prolonged lifespan, probably due to the island.

Definitely, if he did arrive as First Mate of the Black Rock then he'd be somehwere around 200 years old.

[Pelegrin_1]

Originally Posted by What Would Jeff Do

And are we still questioning polar bears? I thought it was pretty much settled that DHARMA brought them their for their tests.

I'm not still questioning them. I just threw in that comment as being something that would've been possible, if in fact the island could have been moved spacially and if it had once been located in an Arctic area.

---

Originally Posted by Richardstone

IMO no, it's attached to the Earth's crust, I don't think it can be moved geographically myself.

Excuse me, this has probably been discussed here a thousand times, but I cannot understand how, as you say, a physically attached to the crust of the earth island can be "moved" and thus "not exist at another time". I can see how everything on the island (everything living and 'movable') can be transplanted to another time, but to phsyical move the island from one time to another, and have it not exist in the time that it was moved from... I just don't see it.
The only way that I could see it being true is:
If the island, being a volcanic formation, is "moved in time" back to before when the island was formed, or alternatively if the island were to somehow be destroyed in the future (by some tremendous bomb or something) and then the island from a previous time were to be moved into the future past the time of its destruction. In fact making the island exist when it actually doesn't exist.
So, what would be happening in those cases would be to locate this physically attached to the earth objective to a time when it had never existed, a time when no one would expect it to be there.
Otherwise, you can change time on the island, but you can't change the island's existance at all times (all times within the geological history of the island).

Now, if Lost is stepping outside of what appears to me to be the constraints of physical science, then I can imagine that the island could have been moved to another location just as Ben appeared in another location.

However, another, I would think more plausible, explanation is that the island was never actually moved at all, but instead the "wormhole-like" access to the island is what was moved. I'm using the word 'wormhole' for my lack of another way of explaining it. But what I'm referring to are those specific coordinates that were needed to find or leave the island (the coordinates that Desmond didn't have when he first tried to leave, but that were given to Michael in order that he could leave). Some kind of 'spatial dimension' could be changed in order that those coordinates no longer work and now a new set of coordinates is needed in order to find the island. However, there is one problem that I have here, and that is that I thought that when the hatch imploded that it made the island more vulnerable to being found. It would seem logical, therefore, that unless that 'protective system' was repaired that the island would still remain more vulnerable to detection, regardless if the coordinates were changed or not.

[Thunderstorm]

I think it's a lot more simple to do the time only narrative but this is LOST, I'll go ambitious. Why not?

We will see it in the same space/different time in one instance and a different time/space altogether in another. Both being told simultaneously along with the 3rd dynamic, the off-Island antics of the O6.

We will see Daniel in the same space as the first 4 seasons of LOST/different time.
We will see Sawyer and Locke in a different space and a different time than the first 4 seasons of LOST.

If the Island moved in space, then I think it could have only moved roughly 150 miles to the east-southeast. I believe this because I am a supporter of at least one version of the antipode theory.
The two tells being the antipodal drop spots in the Sahara and Tunisia. Roughly 150 miles apart.

Ben showed up in the Sahara and went to Tunisia (specifically Tozeur) which is an oasis city on the Western border of Tunisia. Medenine is on the other side of Tunisia, so I think these are two different drop spots, for two different Island movements. That is IF it moved in space.

Ok, so Daniel will be in the same space as himself in the events of Season 4. He should be able then to communicate (thru time) with himself relatively easily in whatever regard the mythology is applied*. Excellent storytelling device. Maybe he gets unstuck* etc.

Locke and Sawyer (etc.) will be either in the near future or near past. Near, meaning fairly recent.
If they went back to the time of the recent crash (the first 4 seasons of LOST) where say, Eko might pop up, that would sound cool as a device but I would guess it would be a production nightmare. So I'll say recent future. And because Ben took a 10 month trip, sounds good enough to me.

---

Originally Posted by What Would Jeff Do

I do think that although several years have passed for the Oceanic Six, they will meet up with the remaining islanders soon after the island moved, from the islanders' perspective.

Yeah, I agree with this idea.

Season 5 from Jack's perspective takes place over weeks or a few months (whatever) and from Locke's perspective it has been a few years.

So the O6 will return soon (relatively speaking) but actually it might take the whole season to tell that story.

[i_wana_get_lost_with_starla]

Originally Posted by Pelegrin_1

Could the island have actually been moved both temporally and spatially? We kind of know that the potential for TT exists on the island, since it appears that at least Richard has used it, though there are many other suggestions of it. However, what Ben did when he moved the island was apparently something very different. We know that Ben showed up next in Tunisia, and in October 2005 not December 2004, 10 months into the future. But since the island was moved also, is it possible that the next time we see the island it will be in a totally different location?

Imagine the island being somewhere in the Berring Sea, or the Indian Ocean, or someone here has suggested the island has always been, Bioko island off the west coast of Africa.
Or perhaps it could end up, somehow, in the middle of the Himalayas... The Lost Horizon.

Where do you think the island will be? Somewhere else, or in the same location only at a different time?

Perhaps polar bears had never been brought to the island, but that the island had at one time been in an Arctic location, and a couple of polar bears had crossed an ice flow and ended up on the island. And then when the island was moved it took the bears with it.

Im thinking, "yea, it disappeared", but what exactly does that really mean??
I think the island hasnt changed its real local at all, just it's "time" local.

"Driveshaft ?, more like Suckshaft"

[Richardstone]

I've not put JMO or IMO anywhere in my post, it's not something I'd say if we were talking face to face, but everything below is JMO or IMO.

Originally Posted by Pelegrin_1

Excuse me, this has probably been discussed here a thousand times, but I cannot understand how, as you say, a physically attached to the crust of the earth island can be "moved" and thus "not exist at another time".

I'm not sure that I believe it's moved at all, I think it just seems like it has.

I can see how everything on the island (everything living and 'movable') can be transplanted to another time, but to phsyical move the island from one time to another, and have it not exist in the time that it was moved from... I just don't see it.

Exactly; you just don't see it, but it is there, to use Halliwax's words it just "seemed to disappear".

The only way that I could see it being true is:
If the island, being a volcanic formation, is "moved in time" back to before when the island was formed, or alternatively if the island were to somehow be destroyed in the future (by some tremendous bomb or something) and then the island from a previous time were to be moved into the future past the time of its destruction. In fact making the island exist when it actually doesn't exist.

If it were shifted back to before it was formed then wouldn't it eventually form underneath itself?

I think that would be just as much of a disaster as it shifting back to yesterday, it's the Bunny#15 scenario, it seemed like something terrible would have happened if those tiny test-bunnies had come in contact with each other, I can't imagine what would happen if an entire island landed on top of itself.

As it can't be shifted back in time and remain in the same place you would have to entertain the idea that if The Island was shifted backwards and was able to move it's geographical location then there would temporarily be two of them, one in the South Pacific and one wherever the other Island ended up reappearing, this is one of the reasons I find it hard to imagine The Island having been shifted backwards in time, two Island's is one too many!

So, what would be happening in those cases would be to locate this physically attached to the earth objective to a time when it had never existed, a time when no one would expect it to be there.

Otherwise, you can change time on the island, but you can't change the island's existance at all times (all times within the geological history of the island).

Now, if Lost is stepping outside of what appears to me to be the constraints of physical science, then I can imagine that the island could have been moved to another location just as Ben appeared in another location.

If it has then I would have to question if it really was an island, if it can move around then it would be more like a vehicle than a landmass.

However, another, I would think more plausible, explanation is that the island was never actually moved at all, but instead the "wormhole-like" access to the island is what was moved. I'm using the word 'wormhole' for my lack of another way of explaining it. But what I'm referring to are those specific coordinates that were needed to find or leave the island (the coordinates that Desmond didn't have when he first tried to leave, but that were given to Michael in order that he could leave). Some kind of 'spatial dimension' could be changed in order that those coordinates no longer work and now a new set of coordinates is needed in order to find the island. However, there is one problem that I have here, and that is that I thought that when the hatch imploded that it made the island more vulnerable to being found. It would seem logical, therefore, that unless that 'protective system' was repaired that the island would still remain more vulnerable to detection, regardless if the coordinates were changed or not.

I think it was the EM discharge that made The Island easier to find, it sort of acted as a lighthouse, if you knew what to look for (as Penny's people did) then you would be able to get a fix, it wouldn't give you an exact location as Penny still needed to track Desmond's Radio-Phone call from the Kahana to find him, but it would at least tell you where to start looking!

[lostorfound]

Originally Posted by Pelegrin_1

I can see how everything on the island (everything living and 'movable') can be transplanted to another time, but to phsyical move the island from one time to another, and have it not exist in the time that it was moved from... I just don't see it.
.

However, another, I would think more plausible, explanation is that the island was never actually moved at all, but instead the "wormhole-like" access to the island is what was moved. I'm using the word 'wormhole' for my lack of another way of explaining it. . ....However, there is one problem that I have here, and that is that I thought that when the hatch imploded that it made the island more vulnerable to being found. It would seem logical, therefore, that unless that 'protective system' was repaired that the island would still remain more vulnerable to detection, regardless if the coordinates were changed or not.

Pelegrin: I think you've got it when you talk about the wormhole. It's not really the Island that has moved, it's the entry point in the outside world that has. Almost like a a new bridge or tunnel has been created to the Island, now the trick is to find the new entrance.

I also think you're correct about the hatch implosion making the Island more vulnerable to be detected, or actually even opening a new path. The "moving" of the Island probably took care of that.

[lostmio]

Originally Posted by Pelegrin_1

Could the island have actually been moved both temporally and spatially? .

Or neither of the above.
The island could be in the same "time" and "space" it's always been. It's just not accessible or visible... ie, it's mirror matter and the "move" restored or reversed parity or symmetry.

There are some old Darlton quotes that during the purple sky event, the island became temporarily "visible". So it's not unreasonable to speculate that it was previously - and now again - "invisible". Mirror matter's invisible.

Whether it moved in time, in space, or was an invisible island that became visible for a few weeks, it's all science fiction.