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Gut reaction...a disappointment and the Ben killing John twist at the end wasn't enough to save it...maybe my expectations were too high...didn't really find it interesting...think I expected more out of John's conversations with the Oceanic 6 and they seem kinda pedestrian...John telling Jack about Christian was good ...the rest were lame
Last edited by freighter hater; 02-25-2009 at 10:25 PM.
and once again our characters have conversations that go absolutely nowhere......starting with Locke and Widmore. Gee John, haven't learned by now how to ask questions? What war? Why do I have to be there? Why do the O6 have to be there? What do I do when I get there? What's up with that Smoke Monster? etc. etc. etc.
maybe I should give Locke the benefit of the doubt and assume he did ask a few questions of Widmore (to be shown to us in yet another thrilling epi. based on Jeremy Bentham).....then dumb him again! if he had more info. that could have been a bit more convincing why didn't he use it with the O6?
first lesson, ask questions. second lesson SHARE!! of course Sayid, Jack, Kate and Hurley followed suit with the "don't ask don't tell" MO.
IMO this entire episode could have taken a maximum of five minutes. The uneventful conversations with the O6 could have been shown as FB during any previous off-Island episode and accomplished the same purpose (which turned out to be nothing).
sad to say, but thank goodness Ben killed Locke. otherwise there really would have been no purpose for this episode.
Have to agree. I thought '316' was an infinitely superior episode (and the best of the season so far btw), that really go under the skin of Jack's character without getting bogged down in too much talky exposition. This episode felt so much like it was just going through the motions - everything was explained.
"Hi, John Locke, I'm Charles Widmore. I found you by looking through that camera. We met when you time travelled back to 1954. I went on to become the leader of the others but then Benjamin Linus exiled me. Now you need to bring all the Oceanic Six back to the Island, here is where they all are and here's a driver, happy hunting!"
"okay"
"Hi Sayid will you come back to the Island"
"No."
"Okay."
"Hi Hurley will you come back to the Island"
"No."
"Okay."
"Hi Kate will you come back to the Island."
"No."
"Okay."
ad nauseum.
And Ben killing Locke did not surprise me in the least.
We wait forever to see Walt, and this is all we get? His encounter with Locke didn't ring true at all. Walt always called him "Mr. Locke," never "John." If Walt has enough powers to see Locke in trouble in dreams, it is inconsistent that Walt doesn't sense Michael is dead. It strikes me as out of character for Walt not to ask about anyone else he may think is still on the island, e.g. Sawyer, Rose, Claire, Charlie, Shannon, or how Locke got off the island.
Locke never mentioned the Jeremy Bentham alias, so Walt could not have referred to him by that alias when Walt visited Hurley.
It seemed clear that Widmore and Abbadon expected that Walt needed to return to the island. If Locke really believes in his cause, he should be the one to inform Walt of the possibility. Better than finding out from Ben.
But the most unbelievable thing of all is that Walt didn't ask about Vincent!
"Hi Sayid will you come back to the Island"
"No."
"Okay."
"Hi Hurley will you come back to the Island"
"No."
"Okay."
"Hi Kate will you come back to the Island."
"No."
"Okay."
Yeah, you nailed it.
I thought 316 was okay. I'd say the first five episodes were better than it, but that's just my opinion, I loved all the first six on the whole. I think it wasn't as appealing because the island scene was like a tease and the rest took place off the island. I thought This Place is Death was really great, and Jughead. But Jack's Grandpa was a great character.
I agree with you all. THe only meeting Bentham had that had any substance was the one with Jack. When I saw Malcom David Kelley in the opening credits. I got excited to see Walt. What a dissapointment that was. Maybe they will address these again later. Lets hope so
i hated how they disguised lockes voice at the start
also hate how they are starting to show us things we have already seen in order for the idiots to keep up with the story
on that theme,i hated how Abbadon asked John if he remembered if he was the orderly who told him to go walkabout.It was just a cheap way to remind people where they had seen abbadon before.
Completely agree with the points here (and probably went on too much of a tirade in the "Rate the Episode" thread, which belonged here (sorry, mods!))
I had a huge problem with how ineffectual and pointless JB's visits to people like Hurley and Sayid were, and how quickly he turned to suicide after only half-**sed attempts to get them back in the first place. He really needed to do a little more prep work.
Trusting Widmore was also a stretch -- hey, you killed all those people, and wanted to kill everyone else too, but I guess I'll be chauffeured by the creepy dude and do what you say.
While I understand Darlton had a hard task to condense ALL of the filler from the S3 and S4 finale into this ep (that is, how JB met and had such a strong impact on Sayid, Jack, Kate, etc. -- so much so that they wouldn't even mention his real name), I think this ep either should have been spread over 2 eps, or focused only on Locke trying to convince Jack, who would then be better than Locke at convincing the rest to go along. Jack's conversion was too abrupt, due to the insufficient time. Apparently 5 minutes at a hospital is all it takes to convince Jack to try re-crashing on the island.
I also would have had the suicide be introduced as an actual strategic move to get the O6 to come back (which is kind of what Alpert made it sound like) -- hey, they're not going to come back just by talking to them, but if you give them enough haunting foreshadowing that you might die, and then go and kill yourself, it'll be enough to convince them (or at least Jack) to come back.
Finally, Kate's line about loving seemed very out-of-the-blue. I understand the point, and the use of the moment to segue into the Helen-side-story, but it could have flowed a little more naturally.
In general, I think I have had problems for awhile with the whole "they need to come back to save everyone" scenario, which has been repeated dozens of times with absolutely NO follow-up (or even prodding questions) about WHY that would be the case. I know we're meant to be left in the dark and find out later, but you need at least a LITTLE more to go on -- maybe Alpert could have thrown in a little more intel to help Locke on his mission.
In general, I think I have had problems for awhile with the whole "they need to come back to save everyone" scenario, which has been repeated dozens of times with absolutely NO follow-up (or even prodding questions) about WHY that would be the case. I know we're meant to be left in the dark and find out later, but you need at least a LITTLE more to go on -- maybe Alpert could have thrown in a little more intel to help Locke on his mission.
We too have grown tired of hearing the "Island need/wants you to go back" line. We would have loved to have heard at least one of the characters respond with, "Oh really. Why? Why does the Island want us back. To do what? The Island wants us to do what now? Say it again."
Of course, all of the above is said while dunking Ben's head into the toilet and making him answer because getting answers to the story while Ben is getting the crap beat out of him is always fun to watch.
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