The Fuselage

The Fuselage.com: The Official Site of the Creative Team Behind ABC's Award Winning TV Show "LOST"
Sponsored by J.J. Abrams


Go Back   The Fuselage > Speculation > Lost General Theories
Flicks N Shows Arcade Tags Social Groups

Lost General Theories Theories based on things that HAVE happened on the actual eps of Lost. No spoiler info is to be posted here.


Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 06-22-2009, 12:42 AM   #1
senorroboto2k5
Coach

 
Additional Info
Profile
Join Date: May 2, 2008
Stats
Posts: 230
How Everything Falls Into Place: Jacob/Man in Black, Monsters, Losties, Christian, Yemi, Dave, Nadia the Cat, and Hallucinations

The main premise of the show: The central conflict of LOST has always been between Jacob and the Man in Black, although what they're struggling over has yet to be explained.

Jacob recruits groups of people that he feels are special and/or worthy, then brings them to the island to help him accomplish his ultimate goal. However, the Man in Black says that "it always ends the same" - that the MiB always ends up winning and/or being right, and Jacob falls short.

Why Jack, Kate, Sawyer, and the 815ers?
Jack, Kate, Sawyer, Hurley, Sayid, Jin, and Sun are not just Jacob's latest recruits; they are his recruits that are finally destined to succeed at helping Jacob win his cause and defeat the Bad Guy. The show focused on this group for a reason, over the Black Rock or any other previous group whose fate was to fail.

How the Man in Black still manages to win
The Man in Black finally finds a "loophole" that allows him to kill Jacob, ending their struggle once and for all. He does by targeting Locke.

Assuming the Smoke Monster is an extension of the MiB himself, the MiB has been after control of Locke from the very beginning. It realized that it could use Locke when it "scanned" him (something that Locke called beautiful), then tried pulling him down the hole in the ground like it did with the French crew so that it could take over his body. After Jack thwarted that plan by throwing dynamite down the shaft, the MiB decided to try an indirect way to gain control of Locke.

The Man in Black starts using the image of Christian Shephard to direct Locke. When he tells Locke to move the island, itís the Man in Black trying to get the Losties in the 1970s (remember, everything all the time skipping in between isnít in Christianís plans, because itís an unintended effect of Ben moving the wheel instead of John). By moving them into a different time period, this would presumably stop them from helping Jacob.

When the Oceanic 6 leave the island, Locke is the one that needs to bring them back. This presents an opportunity for the MiB, who convinces Locke that he also has to die Ė which finally allows him the chance to possess his body.

The Man in Black uses the Smoke Monster/hallucinations in order to manipulate Jacob's recruits
By using the images of other dead people, the MiB has controlled and manipulated some of Jacobís other recruits so that they would become useless, as he does with Christian's image and Locke.

- Waltís image was used to lure Shannon to her death, which was a way of messing with Sayidís will
- Daveís image was used as an attempt to convince Hurley to jump off a cliff, cutting him short of performing his job for Jacob
- Religiously themed images of Charlie's mother and Claire convince Charlie to get Aaron baptized by Eko
- Nadia the cat (a confirmed manifestation of the monster) judges Sayid outside of the Flame, when Sayid decides to let Mikhail live. This is extended in the flashbacks, when the woman that Sayid tortured pretty much "judges" him and Sayid apologizes for his mistakes, much like Ben

The Smoke Monster seems to judge its subjects based on some religious concepts; not to determine whether the person is good or bad, but if they fit some kind of profile that the Man in Black is looking for. The Monster scans Eko, at which point it deems him worthy of some cause; but when Eko refuses to confess to his sins, the Monster deems him unworthy and kills him. When Ben does the opposite and confesses his sins, the Monster lets him live.

Furthermore, it reaches out to Charlie to get Aaron baptized, which helps Aaron fit into what the Man in Black is looking for.

[Note: using images of the dead and inducing hallucinations might not just be for the Man in Black; it may be true of Jacob as well. I believe that Christian with the white shoes and suit were Jacob, as he helped the Losties by showing Jack the water. It wasn't until later, when he had the shirt and boots, that he started having malicious intentions. Jacob may be the one that pushed Aaron to get baptized as well.]

Eko's last words were, "you're next" - as in the Locke would be the Smoke Monster's next target.

The Variables
Eloise Hawking tells Jack, Ben, and company that in order to return to the island, everyone that left on the copter had to be on the same flight back. Otherwise, the "results would be unpredictable."

Everyone returns - sans Aaron. And the results were unpredictable; most of them got jumbled up in time and landed in the 1970s. This was not supposed to happen; they were not supposed to be there, and they would've crashed in 2008 like Sun and Ben if they had just brought Aaron along, too.

The Man in Black successfully got Sawyer, Juliet, Daniel, Miles, Jin, Rose, and Bernard lost in the 1970ís so that they couldnít do their jobs for Jacob; the Oceanic 5 meet the same fate because they left behind some of their passengers.

Even though history corrects itself by putting them in pictures thirty years later, some combination of Jack, Kate, Sayid, and Hurley are the variables - they aren't supposed to be in that time in the first place, so they have control over what they write in their history books.

The VERY end of the story
Jack, Kate, Sayid, and Hurley all have roles to play that would've helped Jacob win the struggle. Only, with them lost in time, only part of Jacob's force - Sun - is in the present time to help him. That's not enough. (Maybe getting them lost in time was the loophole?)

Without Jacob's group there to play their roles, the Man-in-Black-in-Locke's-Body convinces Ben to kill him. This is the VERY END OF THE LOST STORY. The Man in Black wins, Jacob loses. There's nothing more to be told; there's no more conflict.

...except that the variables change things
Although the story ends with Jacob getting burned in a pit of fire, Jack, Kate, and crew find themselves at an earlier point in the story where they don't belong. As such, they can write what it is that they do there - such as setting off a hydrogen bomb that was never supposed to go off.

Think about the story in an absolute timeline. Locke, Richard, Sun, and Ben at the statue happens, letís say, 200 days after the story begins with the 815 crash; Juliet setting off the bomb happens 200 days and one minute after the beginning of the story.

Juliet sets off a bomb that was never supposed to go off, and the results of the explosion affect what just happened to Jacob and Not-Locke despite the difference in years.

Even though they were never supposed to be there, evidence of what they do is integrated into the timeline as they leave behind their trial Ė i.e. the pictures in DHARMAville. The Incident might be the bomb going off, but that doesnít mean it was always supposed to happen that way.

What happens next?
As a way of allowing this special group of Jacobís recruits to have another chance at doing their job and helping good prevail, the bomb resets the story to the start. Jack wakes up in the jungle and sees Vincent; only he will have a memory of what happened. They can change how events happen so that when they reach the end of the story again, it wonít involve Jacob dying and evil prevailing.

Prediction: Season six will be about working back towards the VERY END of the story, only with the characters trying to change to course of events so that the end no longer involves Jacob being defeated.

Last edited by senorroboto2k5; 06-25-2009 at 07:27 AM.
senorroboto2k5 is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 06-22-2009, 01:24 AM   #2
Thunderstorm
Redemption Jack
Premium Economy
The Physician Tries To Heal Himself
 
Additional Info
Profile
Join Date: July 31, 2008
Stats
Posts: 1,228
Re: How Everything Falls Into Place: Jacob, Man in Black, Monsters, Hallucinations, the Purposes of the Losties

It's simple enough and I don't know if I agree with all of it but it's a pretty good idea.

I would take issue with the idea of Good vs Bad.
It's not that simple on Lost, IMO.
It's more like a battle for power than anything.
So I don't really buy the idea that Jacob's Enemy is a "Bad Guy".

Also, I am not totally sold on the idea that Jacob's Enemy is a direct extension the Smoke Monster.
Although I think those theories make sense, I'm just saying I don't quite buy it yet.

Other than that, I like the big picture idea.
That killing Jacob was basically the EndGame.
And now is the fight to change things.

I still personally think that the EndGame is further out and involves things that haven't happened (beyond Jacob's death) but this idea is as good as any other as an alternative to that thinking.
Thunderstorm is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 06-22-2009, 03:11 AM   #3
senorroboto2k5
Coach

 
Additional Info
Profile
Join Date: May 2, 2008
Stats
Posts: 230
Re: How Everything Falls Into Place: Jacob, Man in Black, Monsters, Hallucinations, the Purposes of the Losties

I agree with you that they will fight to change things, but there will be story beyond that.

I also agree that it's probably not as simple as Good vs. Bad, but the Bad Guy is just what I've taken to calling him since he was portrayed as an antagonist in the finale.
senorroboto2k5 is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 06-22-2009, 09:21 AM   #4
lostmio
Queen of the Trajectorial Metaphor
Business Class

 
Additional Info
Profile
Join Date: April 19, 2006
Stats
Posts: 3,869
Re: How Everything Falls Into Place: Jacob, Man in Black, Monsters, Hallucinations, the Purposes of the Losties

Quote:
Originally Posted by senorroboto2k5 View Post
Jack, Kate, Sawyer, Hurley, Sayid, Jin, and Sun
Jacob did attempt to recruit those persons. Importantly, though, he didn't approach Sayid and Hurley pre-815. The only conclusion I can make is that Sayid and Hurley didn't become important to him until *after* the 815 crash.

Then by the time the 316 flight was shaping up, Sayid's and Hurley's presence was so crucial that Jacob, in a rare toss-aside of free will, had Ilana forcibly abduct Sayid. Imho Jacob only did that because Sayid by this time was a hollow man who had no will at all. Hurley was quite different, I've no reason to think Jacob would have abducted him. Jacob believed and hoped that Hurley would go back for his friends. (almost certainly that's Charlie's guitar in the case; it would be a powerful reminder to Hurley that Charlie died trying to rescue all his friends but especially Claire and Aaron.)

I've thought that over every which way and am not sure to make of it. On the face of it, though, it seems to negate your theory that Jacob was trying to get the group on the island in present time, and didn't want them in 1977. If Sayid and Hurley were needed in present time, then Jacob would have approached them pre-815,.

So I'm left thinking that Sayid and Hurley only became important to Jacob's mission after 815 crashed.

Like Thunderstorm, I disagree with your characterization of Jacob and MiB as good and bad. Nor do I think Jacob's plan is/was to defeat MiB. Nothing we saw or heard suggested that. Jacob seemed to be focused on some larger, more overarching mission. My own take is that Jacob was patiently hoping that MiB would come around to his vision.

Jacob's dead. As much as I like his character, I don't yet agree with your premise that the goal is a reset to an earlier time to when he's alive. It's bigger. Jacob seemed to accept his death; if so he sacrificed himself to a larger cause.

Last edited by lostmio; 06-22-2009 at 09:24 AM.
lostmio is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 06-22-2009, 09:38 AM   #5
lostie86
Economy
Which side are you on??
 
Additional Info
Profile
Join Date: May 2, 2009
Location: Greece
Stats
Posts: 319
Re: How Everything Falls Into Place: Jacob, Man in Black, Monsters, Hallucinations, the Purposes of the Losties

Totally agree! Sayid and Hurley became important to Jacob after the crash. We've seen, also, Hurley's ability to locate and see the cabin.
lostie86 is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 06-22-2009, 09:43 AM   #6
simone5p
Business Class
Join the club
 
Additional Info
Profile
Join Date: January 19, 2008
Location: MD
Stats
Posts: 2,413
Re: How Everything Falls Into Place: Jacob, Man in Black, Monsters, Hallucinations, the Purposes of the Losties

Good thoughts.

There certainly is a "war" but I agree that good vs. bad is probably not accurate. I think there are good and bad on both sides of the fence.

There is certainly evidence that there is a game of sorts being played, but since Jacob has died and the war has only just begun, I don't think that Jacob is the player... nor MIB/Locke

Above all, I don't think we know WHEN anything takes places, for sure. Time has been rearranged in a non-chronological, non-linear mess! A big part of the puzzle is to figure that out, imo. When we see Hurley and Sayid with Flight 815, we aren't positive that was the first or second or whatever time they were there.

Last edited by simone5p; 06-22-2009 at 09:45 AM.
simone5p is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 06-22-2009, 08:25 PM   #7
senorroboto2k5
Coach

 
Additional Info
Profile
Join Date: May 2, 2008
Stats
Posts: 230
Re: How Everything Falls Into Place: Jacob, Man in Black, Monsters, Hallucinations, the Purposes of the Losties

^ Nice thought on Sayid and Hurley. I don't know what to make of that.

I'll change everything about "the Bad Guy." I agree it's not just good vs. evil, but that's just what I've called him.
senorroboto2k5 is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 06-22-2009, 09:48 PM   #8
RULost
On The Tarmac

 
Additional Info
Profile
Join Date: December 11, 2004
Stats
Posts: 0
Re: How Everything Falls Into Place: Jacob, Man in Black, Monsters, Hallucinations, the Purposes of the Losties

Quote:
"it always ends the same"
This along with Jacob throwing out they come, they corrupt... I don't know the exact qoute that would be helpful. But what if he isn't talking about differen't groups of people? Just the same people? the same six all the time everytime?
RULost is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 06-22-2009, 10:15 PM   #9
LostisGenius
Premium Economy

 
Additional Info
Profile
Join Date: February 28, 2008
Stats
Posts: 898
Re: How Everything Falls Into Place: Jacob, Man in Black, Monsters, Hallucinations, the Purposes of the Losties

I respectfully disagree partly because I am spoiler free and don't know if your theory is partly based on spoiler info. Saying that, I am a firm believer that the Losties JUST happened into what ever is going on on the island, they have been sucked into a situation they cannot control. The fight going on is for total control of the island because of what the island is made of and can do. Setting off a mega bomb is just plain insane. To do the same thing over and over and to expect different results is insanity. If all of them TT with the island then it stands to reason they TT with the island before, we just did not see it. I always said that Aaron should not be an Oceanic 6, he is not with the O6 now so what does that change?
Free will is not part of the equation, they have always had free will. If there was a gentlemans game going on, it has spiraled out of control and become a selfish, egotistical messy mass of self serving control. Whatever happens, happens.
.





I CAN RESIST JUST ABOUT ANYTHING ...
EXCEPT TEMPTATION
LostisGenius is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 06-22-2009, 11:28 PM   #10
EnelyaSeregon
Economy

 
Additional Info
Profile
Join Date: May 21, 2009
Stats
Posts: 439
Re: How Everything Falls Into Place: Jacob, Man in Black, Monsters, Hallucinations, the Purposes of the Losties

Quote:
Originally Posted by FringeBenefits View Post
I respectfully disagree partly because I am spoiler free and don't know if your theory is partly based on spoiler info. Saying that, I am a firm believer that the Losties JUST happened into what ever is going on on the island, they have been sucked into a situation they cannot control. The fight going on is for total control of the island because of what the island is made of and can do. Setting off a mega bomb is just plain insane. To do the same thing over and over and to expect different results is insanity. If all of them TT with the island then it stands to reason they TT with the island before, we just did not see it. I always said that Aaron should not be an Oceanic 6, he is not with the O6 now so what does that change?
Free will is not part of the equation, they have always had free will. If there was a gentlemans game going on, it has spiraled out of control and become a selfish, egotistical messy mass of self serving control. Whatever happens, happens.
.
You defined insanity. lol.
he is an Oceanic 6. 5 of the 6 came back + Ben+Locke+Lapidus (of the returning)
EnelyaSeregon is offline  
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

The Fuselage > Speculation > Lost General Theories > How Everything Falls Into Place: Jacob, Man in Black, Monsters, Hallucinations, the Purposes of the Losties

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



Flicks N Shows:† A posting board to discuss your favorite tv shows, movies, video games, sports, comics, books, music anime and more!!!


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 01:27 AM.


Help Support
The Fuselage
by Shopping with Amazon
Search Now:

Lost: The Complete Collection
On DVD and Blu-ray

Lost: The Complete Sixth and Final Season
On DVD and Blu-ray

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
The Fuselage

Page generated in 0.97959 seconds with 13 queries [Server Loads: 7.11 7.40 : 9.97]